"Dressed Like A Man" aka The History Of Masculine Style In Women's Fashion

[@l.a.gothro3999]

My late mom was born in 1926, and I asked her what the big deal was about women wearing pants in the 1930s. Her reply: "Because they went all the way UP!" (meaning one could see where the a woman's legs joined together at the crotch - scandalous!)

[@rainpooper7088]

Wait, women‘s legs join together at the crotch? I‘ve been misled!

[@StellaWaldvogel]

But womens' pants in the 1930's tended to have a dropped crotch...look at the photos of beach pajamas, Jean Harlow golfing, etc. People must have been seriously crotchphobic!

[@moss6235]

I tend to show off the place where my legs join together at my crotch quite often with modern fashion oho how awful

[@stevezytveld6585]

@@rainpooper7088 Yup. Just like Barbie! - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown/Pimisi

[@LillyianPuppy]

Nooooooo! They join together at the nebulous void!

[@pootoobaby738]

One of my favorite women from history who wore men's clothes outright was Julie d'Aubigny. She was a French noblewoman in the court of Versailles who was openly bisexual and a crazy swordfighter. She'd show up to balls in menswear and chase women around. She would wear women's garments one day and men's garments the next. Everyone should look up her life story because it's amazing.

[@kae303x]

I guess that's where the anime series "Lady Oscar" got it's idea from. Sounds like a cool woman, sad that we can only meet her through history books and not in person.

[@_de_reve]

omg??? never heard of her!!! as a barroque arts lover and lesbian i need to do some research abt her asap!!!

[@willowtdog6449]

We need a mini series based on her life!

[@MariaEduarda-uc6gt]

fr i can't believe we don't have a movie about her yet, it's the kinda stuff that writes itself

[@mamamoyt]

she's my hero. 😂 how tragic her death is because it's from heartbreak when her partner died first. :(

[@diekje8728]

Karolina: I’m very uneducated Me, an art historian and field archaeologist: girl you’re more qualified than 99,99% of us

[@filomenathewhitecat]

The demand of being "womanly woman" refers not only to dresses but body too. I remember how my ball dance teacher considered my body not enough feminine because I was skinny, tall and had wide shoulders, while I should have wide hips and soft curves like Marylin Monroe. He referred to this as "true feminity". It was very humiliating for me as I really wanted to feel sexy and feminine while dancing. Thanks for bringing up the topic. I hope in the future we won't have many of such people like my teacher left in the world.

[@miraaa19]

Stuff like that makes me so angry! Who is he to tell you how to look! And then critiquing your literal bone structure like your shoulders??? What was he expecting? So weird. I hope you know how beautiful you are 💛

[@AlethrialTheElvenEmpress]

I grew up being a dancer until my joints started having issues. I did a bit of ballroom, although I was more fluent in Ballet. I just have to say I am so so sorry someone said that to you. A teacher (much less anyone else) has NO business saying that. You are beautiful as you are 💜

[@Anonymous-fb1qu]

But at the same time people desire tall and skinny girls. Beauty is so arbitrary

[@Jocelyn_Jade]

There’s something about men who are critical of women’s bodies that just hits a nerve like no other.

[@beccag2758]

Wow your dance teacher sucked. Not only because that’s just rude to say, but it’s also stupid because beauty is not only personally subjective (I think the tall/big shoulders/athletic aesthetic is really beautiful) but also culturally subjective (curves go in and out of style all the time). I’m sorry you had to deal with him😕

[@olgadremina5133]

When i was working in a bookstore people asked for "book for a boy" and "book for a girl". When i was working in a hobby store people asked "present for a boy" or "activity for a girl". Now I'm a kitchen designer, and people ask for "feminine" or "masculine" interior. I feel like in an old joke: - we are surrounded! - that means we can attack in any direction! Attack sexism in any direction! 🥳

[@AlexaFaie]

I'm the kind of person to just keep querying in a different direction and pretending I didn't know what they meant. Its funny having them slowly figure out how ridiculous they are being. Though I'm also reminded of that meme that went round ages ago which was a flow chart helping you figure out if a toy is for boys or for girls. That went "is the toy operated with their genitals?" YES lead to "this is not a toy for children", and NO lead to "this is a toy for both boys and girls". (Obviously it doesn't consider genders outside the binary, but it was funny all the same).

[@bendemare5270]

I love your positivity 💖

[@benzaiten933]

there are feminine and masculine interiors? huh? now of course I'm poor and could never afford a designer interior but I was unaware even in such a thing there's a difference between men and women, people really care too much about unimportant stuff.

[@daemon2426]

I know many men who wear kilts or just skirts. One of my uncles came in his kilt to my wedding. I hope more people become open to this. Non-bifurcated garments aren't a solely women's garment until much more recently than most people realise. Outside the west there are still places where skirts and robes are completely unisex. "Traditional Dress" is a loaded term. Traditional for when and where doesn't cross people's minds as much as it should. This was a great video. Thank you so much. May the algorithm be ever in your favour

[@ДарьяВолкова-ш4ш]

That's really funny how we (russians) are really judgmental about men in dress or skirt in ordinary life but we are completely fine with kilts on festivals. It's so doubled standard. I do love men in kilts it seems even more manly to me than trousers.

[@singerofsongss]

I only ever see men in kilts when I go to the Renaissance Faire. I swear, they’re doing it right. The men in kilts are the ones having the best time. I also see them as more secure in their masculinity and thus, perhaps *more* manly.

[@milliedragon4418]

@@ДарьяВолкова-ш4ш to be fair most women's skirt look strange on men I think bc they hug the curves. Kilts are very straight and doesn't give a feminine look. Men's became fashionable for women bc the took the female silhouette and emphasized it. So perhaps the male silhouette should a consideration?

[@samuelauthier6846]

I love kilts very culturially masculine but also pretty unisex as well for chicks too really like seeing those long maxi length skirt like pieces that guys wear in the alternative metal head style that there is manly in the sence of the structure patterns and shade not like a actual long women's skirt that has flow and flounce to it

[@maxonite]

@@milliedragon4418 what looks masculine or feminine is an everchanging societal construct

[@atree4487]

I find the idea of 'gendered' fashion so interesting because it is _literally_ arbitrary - it changes all the time lol. Thanks for the video!!

[@whushaw]

Who's to say what's Fem or Masc?

[@HAYAOLEONE]

Nonsense.

[@TehMomo_]

@@whushaw society. lol

[@HattieMcDanielonaMoon]

@@whushaw IDK but fem and masc define gender. If you get rid of what's fem and masc, you get rid of gender as a whole.

[@TheLittleRedVixen]

@@HattieMcDanielonaMoon mabey that's a good thing to remove gendered clothing.

[@paadoxal]

love that samuel was like "uhh please wear your own skirts and let me wear the short ones😡😡"

[@mcwjes]

"You're distracting people from my shapely calves!"

[@justalittlebitmo]

I asked my brother once (back when I was a teenager) if what I was wearing was appropriate/modest -- we were going to an event at our church. He looked at me, paused, and then said, "Do you like it? Do you feel comfortable in it?" "Yes." "Then that's all that matters. You dress to please yourself and nobody else." I carry that idea with me still 20+ years later. Your video brought the memory back to me 💕

[@dorian9230]

That's very sweet. ❤ Mine just told me to get out of his room

[@cloudy8146]

Aww, your brother sounds amazing!

[@aenwynn950]

@@dorian9230 😂

[@HAYAOLEONE]

cool story, breeding person

[@ДарьяВолкова-ш4ш]

That's awesome for ordinary life but i feel amazing without a scarf and in trousers but i can't enter the church in Russia. You can wear whatever you want unless it's socially appropriate. It works as with rights, your freedom ends where the other's freedom begins.

[@PocketDeerBoy]

I think gendered fashion is at a bit of a tipping point. A pattern i see here is women doing things that men were doing, only for men to stop doing that. This is a process that continued for over a century, and now there is barely anything men wear that is socially unacceptable for women to do. It’s socially acceptable for women to shop for menswear in a lot of areas, entirely because it’s barely distinguishable from things you could find in women’s sections (at least aesthetically). What’s interesting is that i see very little of the opposite happening through history. Rarely do i see men picking up something women were already wearing. Usually when men start picking up interests that women were already doing, they do it in secret. They insist on the masculinity of the act, or at least deny its femininity. Anyways i bought a skirt two weeks ago

[@miraaa19]

Power to you! I think a big reason for that development is our old friend misogyny. Society looks down on all things feminine so men didn't want to be associated with these clothes/hobbies/etc. Even though these rules are all made up anyways 🙈 So enjoy your skirt as much as you want to! :)

[@mythlover20]

What kind of skirt did you get? Ooh, was it a full circle skirt? Try a full circle skirt if you can! They are so flowy and breezy and elegant and swooshy. They're great in summer! I love them! So much fun to wear!

[@deepseawitch]

I think the big difference between those eras and this century is that we're breaking the limits of men's clothing. As you say, they never wore feminine clothes in public, and nowadays, it's getting more usual to see men wearing feminine inspired clothes. High fashion has already done that, but it's getting into our everyday lives.

[@MildlyRabid]

Clothing is a means for lower-status people, whether they were made low-status by sexism or classism, to imitate the higher-status group and thereby “be taken more seriously.” Then the higher-status group develops new markers to shut them out…in an endless chase. It’s sad, but it makes perfect sense.

[@nagillim7915]

It's also a lot easier for a woman to look good in regular menswear than for a man to look good in clothing made for women. All it takes to adapt most menswear to a woman's figure is a belt. The more accentuated fit of women's garments makes it more or less essential to get out the pins and sowing machine.

[@cinemaocd1752]

Women's stealing men's fashion like high heels and long curly wigs...

[@ramflight]

I find this hilarious

[@falconeshield]

Did you know high heels were invented by the Romans? Lolol

[@giasharie274]

@@falconeshield If I'm not wrong, high heels were invented by the Persians for battle and brought them to Europe

[@desanipt]

I do believe that women wearing whatever they feel like (including full stereotypical masculin clothing) is far more accepted socially than men doing the same. We still have a long way to go before a man wears a dress or a skirt without getting commented on (beyond certain folkloric pieces of clothing)

[@dado__]

Honestly? I think this is only certain to a point. While women are allowed to wear more masculine clothing that before, I constantly struggle as a butch (and see other butches struggle with) actually getting properly masculine clothes. Most "masculine" clothes for women are still cut and styled in feminine ways, from suits to pants to everything else. It's extremely noticeable if you put google results for a type of clothing (e.g. suits, jeans, flannels, etc) with "women's" or "men's" in front.

[@lachimolala819]

Outside of theaters and stuff. Back in the days, women weren't allowed to play and the male actors played the women in shows. Dressing up, getting makeup and all that.

[@desanipt]

@@dado__ Not that's easy, in any way, for women to wear fully stereotypical masculin clothing. But you get to see it way more and it's less commented one than men doing the same thing. And even if they're adapted to look more femine, at least they do exist. There are no casual options for a men to wear a skirt, a bow, a dress, heels, etc., and go slightly unnoticed. Not even adapted cuts or designs at all.

[@dado__]

@@desanipt Good point, I do think that men get way more of the short stick for this. I once saw an article for men on how to avoid scarves made for women, because feminity is that scary to toxic masculinity. I will note, however, that "fully masculine" clothes for women seem to have a sliding scale of acceptability. If you're doing physical labor or are working outside, fully masculine clothes are definitely more accepted. But when you get to stuff like casual wear, office dress codes, formal clothes, etc, there's a definite line that starts forming as you get more formal that's parallel to the restrictions placed on men. Masculinity is seen as more desirable overall in society, so women being masculine is okay up till a point. But that means that men abandoning masculinity is seen as much more dangerous and worthy of mockery. That isn't even getting into trans/nb people, which has an entirely different layer of gender judgement added. I'm nb, so I should know.

[@trudyannbuckley]

@@dado__ You said everything I was going to say about masculine and feminine clothing and some things I wouldn't have but should have. Haha! Thank you for sharing!

[@analuciacarvalho1560]

One of the first memories I have of my grandmother was this: - she wore several layers of skirts, a chemise below everything and wool stockings tied bellow the knee - she didn't know the earth was round, and called the 5 year old version of me "dummy", for saying the earth is shaped like a watermelon - she called the actresses in movies and soap operas "dirty" if they wore red lipstick, red nail polish or smoked. She would be 105 years old if she was alive, and she was a fine exemple of a typical citizen who lived a 50 year of dictatorship: poor, illiterate and very religious. Salazar's dictatorship tried in large part to erase the forward thinking mentality and politics of the 1st Republic (1910-26) and installed a regime that closed the countries borders and the people's minds. Though Portuguese cinema and review theatre (very popular here) tried to mimic the cinema's icons (like Marlene Dietrich), by the means of censorship imposed in our society a model of propriety and way of behavior that was very rigid - specially in gender behavior. In 1974, with the end of the dictatorship this ended, but a lot of social habits from the dictatorship still linger. I love he content you produce!

[@xandrinecohoe5191]

Wow!! Interesting how 'turn of the century' ideas last far longer than we realize in certain places.

[@rolom3]

*Marlene Dietrich?

[@catarinabarbosa2247]

same, my grandparents lived through this as well (they're both in their 80s) and my grandpa still throws a hissy fit every time my dad does anything traditionally feminine saying it's beneath him and "tem algum jeito um home a ajudar às chouriças coisa tão linda"

[@brianmccarthy5557]

When she was born Portugal was under a left wing dictatorship, the psuedo totalitarian state you call the 1st Republic. It was well in line with the Communist, Socialist, Fascist and Nazi regimes developing at the time. Apparently you believe that this is "forward thinking". They even imprisoned the small children who saw the Virgin Mary at Fatima. It fell because ot lacked popularity and support from ordinary Portugese. You may call people like her ignorant but they knew enough to resist Communism and the twisted perversions characteristic of modernist life. Don't be so quick to condemn your elders. Also the earth isn't shaped like any watermelon I've ever seen. I don't know if she actually thought it was flat but any Portugese fisherman or seaman since the earliest days would have told her it was round, since that was well known long before the birth of Christ, the Roman Empire and even the Greeks. Purely a modern legend to assert otherwise.

[@Asptuber]

How fascinating, thank you for sharing this! It is hard to believe that we are talking about the same continent: my grandmother would be 111 years old, and she was almost the complete opposite: trousers, smoking, calling embroidery etc "wasted female labour" (though she did soften quite a bit in her later years, becoming more appreciative of typical female pursuits), talking about how in 1927 when she married for the first time she had in her mind that you could always divorce if it didn't work out (as she then did). What I find fascinating about contrasting our respective grandmothers is that I think the seeds of the difference lies further back in time, with an earlier generation. My great-grandparents were very "radical". Girls should be educated (my grandmother's rebellion was to get married at 17), travelling and doing sporty things were important, new technology was to be embraced, as soon as it was legal to not belong to the church they left it, etc. They also married before they had the means to "properly set up a household" - scandalous for middle class people at the time. I do wonder what our grandmothers would have thought about each other? They lived very different lives, in very different environments. Also very interesting what you write about the Salazar dictatorship - I feel we in the rest of Europe know almost nothing about Portugal (so THANK YOU for spreading knowledge). I wonder if this traditionalist ideology also meant that things that were very central in my grandmother's life, like girl guiding / scouting, political organisations for women, "people's education"* etc was also stifled in Portugal? *I can't come up with a good English translation for the concept of "folkbildning" - it's not formal education, hardly even "education" as such. It's a Scandinavian concept that starts already in the mid 1800s, and especially in Finland (&maybe Norway?) also has a flavour of "nation building". You form associations, invite speakers, read books, put on courses about different things. It is very strong in the early labour movement, but also has counterparts in agrarian and non-socialist movements (& probably in churches, but I know next to nothing about that). The basic idea is to bring knowledge to "the people", but alongside it also runs a folkloristic thread of collecting the "genuine" culture (gathering folk music, poetry, dialects, modes of dress etc). And pretty early (say 1920ies) this collected folk culture starts to be fed back to "the people" in the form of folkdancing, songs, rituals etc. So a typical soiré might be a mix of an academic lecture, some poetry, a small play, traditional dance (either as performance or for everyone, or both), some singing etc. But you still have this ethos of knowledge (combined with recreation and fun) animating lots of voluntary organisations all through the 20th century (&arguably today, but the last 30-40 years have been really hard). My grandmother loved travel, but had a strong ethos of this "sharing knowledge" which meant that when she got to travel to Egypt in the early 60ies she took pictures, even home movies, which she then made into a public lecture for her association. My first memories are from the mid 70ies, and even then lectures on various topics, from the more academic ("newest finds at local archeological digs", "Analysis of newborn cries") to travel based (like my grandmother, or one I remember is an actress who had lived 6 months in Nepal), were still a staple. (At some point the more straightforward education gets more institutionalised and we get what in Finland is called either "citizen" or "workers" institutes, places that offer courses in foreign languages, music, cooking etc. (There is also the "folkhögskola" ("people's polytechnic") which are residential schools that are not quite vocational, not quite theoretical, not really formally academic, but often focused on a mix of arts, handicrafts or general "countryside" skills. Sadly these have been dying by the masses during the last 30 years.)) Sorry for writing such a novel - I know I shouldn't read the comments on Karolina's videos, because they are always so inspiring and makes me think, and then write and write and write...

[@AW-uv3cb]

Off topic but I love the subtle harmony of colours in this video: the jumper, the makeup, even the hair and skin tone - of course I know it's all intentional, but even the delicate pink of the walls matches the scheme! :-) A pleasure to watch!

[@buttercxpdraws8101]

I agree. Her composition is always exquisite. ( I bet you get a ♥️ for your comment 😉) Totally true tho 😊😊😊

[@anglerfish4161]

Well noticed!

[@afirewasinmyhead]

Even the reflection in her glasses towards the end. :)

[@_JustJoe]

@@buttercxpdraws8101 both of you got hearts!

[@_JustJoe]

@@buttercxpdraws8101 don’t edit your comment or it’ll go away btw

[@miaveiga]

Karolina, we need a video explaining the whooooole story of how men stoped wearing skirts, to the point that it’s basically not socially accepted anymore by mainstream fashion

[@DanielleVlog365]

And makeup as well. Heels, "corsets", wigs... It'd be fascinating.

[@cherrytucker5698]

I second this!

[@juliemiller5196]

@@DanielleVlog365 You'll still find makeup worn by men that would otherwise have lots of blemishes. But most don't admit to it.

[@akostarkanyi825]

Both men and women wore dresses in the beginning, eg. in late Antiquity, only men's were shorter because it were women whose "valuable asset", their body should have been kept from intrusive looks (of men). And then the development of men's tights began. It became ever thinner and more colourful until it became quite guady and revealing by the late medieval era / renaissance period (eg. around 1500). And this did not happen (probably and in my opinion) because men wanted to attract women sexualy - although this could be a byproduct in some cases - because it were men who basically chose women, and not the other way around, as far as I know. I think men wanted to "advertise" themselves and boasting of themselves for other men with their strong bodies and bright-colored and expensive tights as they do it with their cars today. But "enough is enough" and revealing penises and scrotums in these tights became a little too much for some and so, some wealthy men chose to wear something that covers at least the most precious part of their body. This way they wore "something" above tights and that "something" became ever longer throughout centuries (Venetian breeches and Plunderhoses meant some transitionary forms) until it became the culotte. The culotte was the normal everyday piece of clothing for any wealthy or elite man by the end of the 18th century. And that is why the French revolution of 1789 was mostly done by the "sans-culotte", by poor men who wore (practically) pantalons. And from then on pantalons became the symbol of democracy until the 1960s when the spreading of jeans (pantalons) meant a "super democracy" (or what). And as neither culottes, nor pantalons (or most jeans) meant something revealing a question of "but what about skirts" and "should they be longer or can they be this short" never came up in men's fashion as wearing dresses or skirts was left "somewhere on the road" during these historical processes. And that is why it is only bathrobes of men today that resemble to dresses or skirts.

[@MonaLisa-zz5cv]

"I don't wear men's clothes. I wear my own clothes." -Mary Walker, Civil War Surgeon and the only woman recipient or the (American) Medal of Honor.

[@aurorameyer159]

Mary Walker is so cool!!!! It's hard to find info on her, but everything I've ever seen is awesome.

[@indiabilly]

I like that Victorian boys wore pink and girls blue and at some point it switched but we are so paranoid about gender that we discourage children from liking pink if they are a boy or blue if they are a girl- your videos are fantastic xx

[@allisonskitchen4420]

I remember that my health teacher in high school went off on a rant talking about how his granddaughter, who was 2, knew to play with pink Barbies instead of blue guns, and was saying something about how it proved that genders are supposed to be confined to traditional stereotypes or something. It was quite bizarre.

[@indiabilly]

@@allisonskitchen4420 hmmm, I think it proves that as observant little monkeys that need to fit into our group we learn from an early age what is expected of us, am glad I never met your health teacher! X

[@allisonskitchen4420]

@@indiabilly exactly.

[@lydias8303]

Fun fact: Hitler was actually the one who changed that standard. Just as he forced Jews to wear a yellow star, he forced gay men to wear a pink symbol (I think it was a triangle, but I'm not sure). As a result, men shied away from pink for decades, so women decided to adopt it as their color.

[@ramflight]

That's one of my favourite facts ever!

[@lucie4185]

I do love that portrait of Mary of Modena in her riding coat. It is so beautiful you can see all the pearls and goldwork so perfectly she almost could step out of the frame.

[@silverscapes9628]

We have come so far, but now, it needs to be socially acceptable for men to wear skirts (kilts don't count because those are so specific in structure), pink and flowers. I find myself questioning gender norms as I buy clothes for my 1 month old son. 90% of what's in the boy section is considered neutral, 90% of what's in the girl section is girls only. A simple slight puff sleeve makes people think my son is a girl. I wouldn't care so much, but my husband cares very much.

[@ramflight]

Whenever I get a kid of my own, I'm going to dress the baby so that people don't know if it's a boy or a girl. Like I love comics, so if I have a girl, I'd put her in a superman or batman outfit xD

[@helenahsson1697]

My boys(2,5yr) wear their sister's and older cousin's old clothes to kindergarden. No-one cares. I've given away the longer dresses because they're not as good at climbing yet as she was at the same age/size so they fall over too much. The other parents do the same thing and no-one cares about colours or a little puff at the sleeves.

[@vainpiers]

My younger cousin used to wear an elsa costume constantly and my 13 year old brother likes wearing womens shorts.

[@m.maclellan7147]

@@helenahsson1697 Are you in Europe ? Here in the USA seems folks have to be practically homeless before they don't have new clothes for the babies ! I am 59 and remember folks giving bags of clothes to whoever was pregnant. Never did anyone worry about gender. I seem to recall a lot of white clothes - easier to bleach?! "Hand-me-downs" used to be much more common.

[@msai257]

@@m.maclellan7147 Really? Prioritizing new clothes for babies seems so counterintuitive. They grow out of them before no real wear has time to happen, so of course you give them to the next person. It's not even really about money, wealthier people do the same because it's just. sensible. you know.

[@rashmika9742]

My father's baby photos are all of him wearing a unisex white "dress." (He grew up in the 1970s.) He apparently wore his first pairs of pants when he was around five: before that, all toddlers just wore the same thing regardless of gender because then women within extended families could reuse baby garments.

[@Nadia1989]

Yup. Both my parents are boomers and in their respective christening photoshoots they wore the same attire. The only way to differentiate baby!Mom from baby!Dad is the photography studio stamp at the back.

[@yourrealnightmare]

truth be told, for me personally, a woman in suit and tie is peak fashion (and my achilles heel)

[@mildryfrr9970]

Truly a man of culture

[@priyankaperes6894]

I wish I had this kind of history for my culture, as an Indian bi woman. It would mean so much to me. European/Western folks are really lucky to have their history preserved like this

[@nuraycademir4364]

Of course, bearing in mind the possible biases, the UK have extensive historical archives on their colonies, especially India given the complexity of the society and its history. I am sure some uni catalogues would have already done ethnographic and archival research on local fashion and its development vis-a-vis colonization. However, you should definitely explore the British media archives on India.

[@FenixCherry]

This is just a complete guess but perhaps people back in the day were, in ways, more open to different "gendered" clothing because there was a bigger societal pressure to be fashionable (than today) and therefore they were more aware of the changes that can happen within fashion

[@Joyride37]

I think this is true in the US. However, I’m currently living in South Korea and the fashion culture is huge here. People are dressed nicely more than they are not, and clothing and hair styles tend to be very gendered. There is an underlying pressure to conform, especially if you are Korean. I get stared at a lot by people because 1) I’m foreign (not in a bad way, older Koreans tend to be curious. Korea is very homogenous. Sometimes it’s for rude reason unfortunately and I’ll get corrected or admonished for something simple) 2) I do not dress hyper feminine like most young Korean women. I have a soft face but a more gender neutral/tomboy casual style (that sure, shows enough of my figure for most people to know I’m female, but is otherwise “boyish”), but my short hair + covid masks covering my face confuses people greatly. I get stared at when in bathrooms because an older lady either thinks I’m a man or is confused by me. Even saying something to reveal my unmasculine voice usually just confuses them more

[@yhusandia]

@@Joyride37 also the things in Asia in the past where very different from the occident 🤔

[@UsernamesForDummies]

That also reminds me of the colours that are “typical” for girls and boys. Pink for girls and blue for boys are actually a newer concept. Previously, it was the other way around.

[@lyreparadox]

Yup, pink was considered a "softer" form of red, which was considered masculine, while blue was considered a reference to the virgin Mary and feminine purity.

[@DanielleVlog365]

I legit hate pink and hated everything being pink for me as a kid, because that's pretty much all that was made. If I ever have kids, I'll be happy knowing there are more fun colors and animal prints for everyone to wear

[@yhusandia]

@@lyreparadox hahaha how ironic considering how is view today XD personally I love both colors pink is cute and blue is refreshing 😌

[@niki3722]

But is it unisex fashion if only women are allowed to wear "men's clothes" and adapting them, but men aren't wearing women's clothing because of social stigma?

[@Gr95dc]

I men, women weren't "allowed" to wear men clothes, they just did. Man can do the same...

[@kuroyamaevisekai]

@@Gr95dc So did men, but in today's society feminine men is still looked down upon cuz of misogyny.

[@austinlee-]

@@Gr95dc Yeah I don’t think it’s the fact that men technically “can” do the same, which yeah they are slowly,( I.e. social media E boys with more accessories like all the pearls and painted nails) most just don’t want to because stepping out of masculine norms put you up for the possibility of being called or assumed homosexual which is clearly a deep rooted fear because of societal relationship with the feminine due to misogyny and outdated religious morals in our “modern” culture.

[@Cora.T]

@@kuroyamaevisekai the only way to change that is exposure. If something is rarely seen, then it will remain weird. But if it's often done it will become normal and no-one will bat an eye. Wanna wear clothing of "the opposite gender"? Do it. See someone wearing clothing of "the opposite gender"? Compliment them, and don't tolerate negativity. And things will change

[@kuroyamaevisekai]

@@Cora.T yes but it's not as easy when most of the world still finds you weird, when your life might literally be in danger because of it.

[@rids1385]

okay but i need a 10-minute version of that country music recital

[@jayahmoore7251]

I love how she emphasizes that masculine and feminine traits are all just a construct humanity created over time

[@PinkSparklyBatman]

As a gnc person and a someone with an interest fashion history this video was really fascinating! It is really interesting to me how much our modern idea of gendered clothing comes from the 40s and 50s when there are hundreds of years of fashion that go very much against that idea. Great video!

[@Asptuber]

Yes, I really appreciated this part being so clear in this video. Part of it is something I have always known (it was always pointed out to me even as a child), the part about things considered strictly female today in previous eras being unisex or even exclusively male. But the part I've heard much less about (in the context of clothing) is how very recent it is that the stereotypes really harden. But I think that for men this hardening happens a bit earlier than for women, somewhere around the latter part of the 1800s. Male clothing gets ever more boring, and more restricted. It's like what is permissible for men shrinks into what we have as the conventional male suit around the same time as industrialisation and the height of colonialism. Going into the early part of the 20th century I also wonder if the modernist, utilitarian flavour in socialism/marxism also plays a part in constricting male dress. It is like the "modern man" has been stuck in various variations of how a book keeper (or a miner in church on a Sunday) dressed ca 1910. Just thought of another things that makes the stereotypes really harden around 1950-ish: mass manufacturing of clothing. If you make your own clothes in the family, or by ordering your clothes from a seamstress or tailor, the clothes are made (or altered) for an individual. And male and female forms are different, but the forms between individuals are also different. So you can have your trusted patterns that are "usually female" or "usually male", but for many garments the crossover would be quite large. There's nothing inherently male of female in choices of buttons, decorations, fabrics when every garment is more or less unique. But when you mass produce items of clothing, you need to signal who your intended customer is. So lace disappears from male clothing (I have a hunch that male clothing gets mass produced earlier than female clothing, so this would make sense from an economical perspective as well). Pockets disappear from female clothing. Undergarments gets really really gendered pretty early. (I probably have a slightly weird take on this because while I can't sew a garment to save my life, both my mother and grandmother did make some clothes for themselves and for me up until the late 80ies/early 90ies. I still often go "huh?!" when I need to buy clothes - trying to figure out the manufacturing logic of clothes is fascinating, but frustrating. Lately I've been defaulting to mens clothes for tops, even though the cut is often inherently wrong for me, just because the quality of fabric and details is so much better. )

[@lyreparadox]

@@Asptuber I remember hearing somewhere, (probably from Abby Cox) that in the 1700's men's clothes were typically made from a flat pattern, while women's clothes were draped over the stays. Based on that, it might make sense that men's clothes were mass manufactured earlier?

[@ohrats731]

Lol my grandma always says stuff like “I remember when you used to be able to tell men and women apart just by looking at them! Now everyone is a fat blob in a potato sack t-shirt.” Yeah she’s pretty rude…. But it’s funny that several times in history people said basically the same thing about their contemporary unisex fashions (minus the T-shirt thing lol). I guess because fashion comes and goes in waves, she grew up in a time when fashion was particularly gendered. Now it’s swung back again to lots of unisex options and it’s still news to her for some reason lol. In my opinion, it’s kind of a good thing that people can’t tell your gender at a glance because it opens up more opportunities to challenge gender norms and ask *why* we feel we need to know a person’s gender before we speak with them. But that’s just my queer agenda lol

[@xeoney]

I agree! I never understood why it's such a problem for some people when they aren't sure what someone's gender is, or why someone is wearing certain clothes. It's obviously difficult for some people to get used to it, but the fact that they're so opposed to learning and act like it's the worst thing to happen is strange. Then again, some people are just judgemental, and just don't care.

[@elyzabeth5671]

I mean, the only valid reason I can think of is a fear a misgendrring and hurting the person. In lots of languages there's a very clear distinction between feminine and masculine word forms, it's not just the pronouns, but literally everything, including adjectives and verbs. So it's literally impossible to refer to somebody without assigning them a gender. Using "they" or neuter doesn't work either. Most of the short day-to-day cmmunications in public spaces don't allow getting to know the person, so there's no way to know. While personally I don't care if somebody misgenders me, some people do take it as an offence and feel hurt or humiliated. Especially in more queerphobic countries, it's as if somebody called you a slur out of the blue.

[@NeptunoFerrallas]

How about mens fashion being influence by womens one? It will be so interesting!

[@khazermashkes2316]

Yes please!

[@chrissyelric7134]

I would also like a Reserve Video! (I hope that makes sense lol)

[@Amandanumnum]

@Tesla-Effect i thought slim pants/jeans were in men's fashion since like the 1800s?

[@zapcracklepop]

As a gay woman who loves to dress in a more traditionally masculine way, thank you for taking the time to make a video on people more like me throughout history 🙏 it's easy for gnc people to feel overlooked or even erased, so it's very comforting to know that there have always been people like me and that we can also be stylish and fashionable. Fantastic video! :D

[@benzaiten933]

as a lady myself I always liked the images of those 'old timey' ladies dressing completely in tuxedos with top hats or the more casual variants. I simply think it looks great and it's awesome you enjoy dressing in a 'masculine' way!

[@erinjackson6243]

Anyone else really enjoy Karolina's impromptu serenade? As always, great video. I can't wait to share this with a few people. :)

[@artomatt]

Yes! I was very impressed! I wonder what other hidden talents she has.

[@aliciamoulton6876]

I was waiting to see someone comment on this!

[@mirmioo]

I am non-binary and i like mixing mens and womens clothes and when i say "this would be cool in like the 1960s" conservatives often say "but that time has passed, dress according to todays standards" but in the next breath they want to go back to the good ol days. i just find that funny. Great video, this topic being discussed in a positive light always warms my heart.

[@cynthiaenglish2736]

Another fabulous and educational vid Karolina. My Mom (who was always very fastidious about her appearance) taught me that whatever you wear should be clean, well fitted, worn well (seams and such in the right places) and with good posture and pride. Those were the only rules. She grew up rather poor and wasn’t able to finish high school but she was well read and world smart. No matter how modest your clothes, she believed that you can radiate your personality through your clothes no matter what your circumstances.

[@veronicarodriguez1751]

Your mother sounds wonderful. :)

[@ilona2921]

and now women can wear "mens clothes" but men cant wear "womens clothes"

[@abouchard]

And that's good old misogyny for ya. A woman in "men's clothes" is "more serious and powerful" in the eye of the misogynist and a man in "women's clothes" is "emotional and weak" and even "laughable". Hopefully the views on that matter are slowly fading away as people give less and less thoughts to those haters!

[@ilona2921]

@@abouchard yep, I personally think men look great in many clothes ment for women. In dresses for examble.

[@gerardacronin334]

Scotsmen are triggered! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@AnnaReed42]

Yeah I think that's starting to change - e.g. the new menswear DLC for Sims 4 has some skirts and is based off of an actual designer of menswear - but it's definitely slow going.

[@ilona2921]

@@gerardacronin334 good point😂

[@katarzynamolendys9158]

Since we're ending the Byzantian period on art history lessons, the moment the mosaics from Ravenna showed I was immediately mentally reciting all the facts, dates, people and basically all knowledge that I posses on the topic, but the went "Katarzyna, stop. Relax, that's an obsession."

[@annapruitt5546]

That sounds pretty cool!! I’d like to hear some art facts!

[@moss6235]

Art history you say?

[@katarzynamolendys9158]

@@moss6235 yes

[@georgeoldsterd8994]

Katarzyna Molendys, that's an interesting name. Where are you from? Sounds kinda Balkan slav. 🤔

[@katarzynamolendys9158]

Poland actually

[@MsSarahKelly]

I am so glad you shared all of this. I recently took a sociology class focusing on gender, gender identity, and human sexuality and the very first chapter started focusing on the “gender norms” of today, how a “real man” wouldn’t be caught dead wearing high heels. The thing is heeled shoes like that were originally created for men to wear while riding horses during war, for their shoes to help hold their feet in the stirrups when they were using their hands to fight with various types of weapons. And then how it was adopted by the male French aristocracy and then was slowly also adopted by women in the same crowds and then it was no longer cool because woman wore them then too. And the ideas created in the 1950’s really did create these arbitrary ideas about what a real woman wore and what real men should wear and it is ridiculous. Wear whatever you want and what makes you happy.

[@handolennon3084]

I have the feeling things actually were on a very good way during history especially from the 60s on when it comes to equalizing mens and womens clothing. And now if a man wears a dress everyone starts screaming...

[@falconeshield]

That's gaaaaay Like that's a bad thing lol

[@georgeoldsterd8994]

The whole thing is so silly, really. One of the "crazier" "stunts" Patty Smith pulled off was a photo-session in which she was dressed up in a male suit. The humour of the "stunt" is that she did so in the late-1970's/ early-1980's, and was in the No-Wave/ early-Punk scene, which, as people know was all about breaking the mold, doing crazy, shocking, and otherwise outrageous stuff. What I'm saying is that even at that point crossdressing women were considered unusual, even in the overly open-minded punk scene. Crossdressing men are considered wrong even today, in fact.

[@evapalma9899]

She also dressed in a long dress with her best friend, French artist Lizzy Mercier Descloux, in a vintage suit posing as Arthur Rimbaud

[@bruce1947]

The 60s and 70s were the peak of both women's and men's fashion.

[@ilona2921]

I really like thise changes, but I wish we still could wear those fitted dresses more often because they are so cool in my opinion.

[@anatine_banana_69]

And the 20s

[@falconeshield]

@H Horrible to live in if you were a woman in a loveless marriage though

[@carrywon8767]

I disagree, the 70s?! Definitely unique but a weird era for clothing, (don't get me started on 70s men fashion.)

[@lyreparadox]

If you mean the 1770's then sure, I can agree with that. 😉

[@kerrionalucas4363]

Associating sweaters with sports is just a weird concept for me. I guess because of where I live the need for sweaters is a short window of the year and some years, like this year, they don't seem needed at all.

[@shittymcrvids3119]

they are definitely needed here, especially now in December, but imagine wearing one while sweating...ew

[@denisha8596]

Cricket uniforms still tend to include a V-neck knit pullover, especially uniforms for longer forms of the game.

[@Susanfuzz]

Maybe the sweaters were chosen for their stretchy properties? It seems that would a plus for sports…no Lycra for Victorians :)

[@rosevinetube]

Love this! Great history lesson - the images themselves tell a story. When I started college (fall of1969) it was my chance to rebel from my prim and proper upbringing, full of many self-made feminine (ruffly and gathered) dresses and blouses. I bought a man’s fine wool tweed 3 -piece suit at a church rummage sale. So much fun to wear it, complete with a wide silk tie. I tightly braided, then unbraided my long hair, into a wild frizzy mess. No photos, no Facebook in those days. All the best looks are dying away in memories. Sigh.

[@emieve617]

I bet you looked absolutely fabulous!

[@feezlfuzzl564]

Do you still have suits to wear?

[@rosevinetube]

@@feezlfuzzl564 I looked much better in a suit then. Haha!

[@rosevinetube]

@@feezlfuzzl564 I’m more into soft, flowy fabrics in my own original designs. I love handsewing linen too.

[@chriswoods1955]

Going to love this video to show my mother some tomboy through the ages since she was one in her young days :D Aka the middle ages

[@AlexaFaie]

Did you just sort of your mum joke yourself? 🤣

[@chriswoods1955]

@@AlexaFaie kinda lol

[@michalinaata5267]

Yes! I answered almost all correctly in the test! I noticed that women usually had colorful ribbons at their necks while men had that „ruffle” thing

[@Theturtleowl]

My grandmother (born in 1924) was very glad to be able to wear pants. Made housework a lot easier. She wore skirts to church or to a party.

[@spicevoid8703]

enjoyed the brief musical number, what a talent

[@C19520]

I'm going to a Prohibition-era themed New Years party with some friends, and as a gal who LOVES costumes but often feels Highly Uncomfortable in dresses, this video was like an answer to my prayers. So much information and so many great reference photos to work from!! Now I'm feeling more like I'll be able to nail down a look that fits the time period but doesn't make me want to cringe when I think about wearing it lol. Thank you, Karolina!

[@hamsterpouches]

😍 You're gonna look great!!

[@C19520]

@@hamsterpouches Thank you!! I think it turned out really well, and I got compliments from several different people last night, so I guess other folks thought so too haha 😊

[@hamsterpouches]

@@C19520 that's awesome!

[@KindessisEternal]

I'm reminded of the movie "Victor/Victoria" where Julie Andrews is a struggling female soprano finds work playing a male female impersonator (I think it takes place in the 20's?)

[@Angelbluex]

Victor/Victoria was actually a remake of a German movie from 1933 of the same name, an absolutely amazing watch to see how gnc people were represented in history, and surprisingly extremely ahead of its time ☺️

[@melani3149]

I think it's interesting how it's become more normal for women to "steal" men's clothing but men aren't really allowed in women's clothing (dresses, skirts, etc)

[@tompeled6193]

Can't wait for the MRAs to say this is another example of the matriarchy.

[@creature6715]

@@tompeled6193 that would require them to support men who actually experience marginalization

[@mildryfrr9970]

Hear me out: maybe it’s because “men’s” clothes are more comfortable/utilitarian? Women can’t do manual labor in a skirt or dress as well as in pants, puffy blouses get dirty easily, stockings rip in 2 seconds, heels are a disaster. Maybe men just don’t want to wear these things because they’re actually uncomfortable? I know there are plenty of men who wear heels and corsets, but what do they put on when doing a quick run to the grocery store?

[@creature6715]

@@mildryfrr9970 i mean the thing is if men do that, they get homophobic abuse hurled at them, a man not wanting to wear heels because he doesn't like them is one thing, its another when its because he'll be ostracized

[@peachbooks3199]

it's bcs of misogyny. if a girl does manly things, she's cool. but a man does girly things? they'd say he's "lowering" himself. bcs men see women as inferior (subconsciously), hence why being/looking/doing anything "like a girl" is always an insult. it's fucked up society

[@Vintagebursche]

I'm still waiting for codpieces being acceptable again.

[@Wingers55]

Imagine women appropriating codpieces in their fashion.

[@stevezytveld6585]

@@Wingers55 As a clap-back to all of the _"Chastity belt"_ nonsense? Count me in. Because Henry the 8ths' could get hilarious. Plus? It's another surface to embroider and bead... - Cathy (&, accidently, Steve), Ottawa/Bytown/Pimisi

[@stevezytveld6585]

@@Wingers55 {Small edit} if we could manage to draft a professional, Canadian hockey player into wearing a codpiece, we'd have a shot at getting it back into circulation (sorry, that was an accidental pun). Their wearing cups anyways? Why not bling them out??? - cathy (yadda, yadda), Bytown

[@Wingers55]

@@stevezytveld6585 😂😂 genius

[@goga.grusha]

im so glad you showed lucyna !!! such a niche yet amazing movie

[@xavierrodriguez1370]

Women: Wanting to look cute but also be practical. Men: How DAAAAARE you!

[@peppermintsmint]

YESS THANK U ive been lookin for inspo on how to dress more "vintage butch" lately and yah all these pics and info helps a lot thnx.. also lovely to hear u talk about how queer ppl have always existed, theres always been ppl going against the grain so to speak. Now im wondering if ur gonna do a "dressed like a girl" vid ;)

[@jeanrock3047]

Two of my friends, Tyson and Noam wear normal, average skirts, and because my school is awesome people are used to it - no one bats an eye, but I've often wondered why it's ok for women to wear " men's clothes" but men can't wear skirts and dresses without causing a stir. I love your videos, they are an inspiration, and you're very smart.

[@sarasthoughts]

The queen has blessed us with another amazing informational video ✨

[@jazy3091]

Apart of all the amazing content I really appreciate Karolina's random reminder that people who speak funny accent (= everyone from non anglophone country) had to learn English at some point and are in fact still constantly learning it and have to google and check stuff on the go. A small thing but I think I never seen it in other non native English speaking creators and I really love it.

[@morgansmyrages]

There should be a follow up: man items inspired by women's fashion and examples of men who wore female clothes if there are any

[@feezlfuzzl564]

There were plenty of crossdressers throughout history. Have you seen the video, "What did Victorian crossdressers wear?" I forget who made it, but it was very interesting. There is also a book from the 1970s, called, "The Mysteries of Sex: Women who dressed as men and men who impersonated women." The author constantly misgenders likely transgender people, but it's also very interesting.

[@kellimbt]

This was really interesting! Great job!

[@sadielappin8862]

It's cool to see these examples, but there's also something deeply frustrating about seeing mainstream women's fashion in the 60s becoming more masculine even as queer women were being arrested for "masquerade law" violations for wearing men's clothing.

[@ravenwolfkittyface1802]

I feel like this overall trend continues today, despite the laws themselves being different now. A lot of people say it’s “socially acceptable for a woman to wear men’s clothes” now, but that’s not quite true. In my experience and observation, it’s acceptable for *men’s styles to influence women’s styles,* but a queer woman who is seen as notably more masculine than the current social norm for women is often still a lightning rod for public homophobia and derision on the basis of her gender-nonconformity. It’s fine for a woman to wear a T-shirt and pants (in a way that it’s not socially acceptable for a man to wear a skirt), but a woman who buys her T-shirts and pants from the men’s section and doesn’t “walk like a woman” will still be side-eyed by a lot of people.

[@GAFloppa]

Let's be honest, those 1920's boyish looks were unbelievable 😍

[@jhardman1876]

I do find it interesting that nowadays, a woman wearing quote-unquote "men's" clothing and a man wearing quote-unquote "women's" clothing have very different connotations. Like a man wearing a dress has more negative connotations than a woman in a suit. It's nice that there are more male celebrities wearing more "feminine" clothes (like Harry Styles or Billy Porter, among others) but I feel like it's right before the real breakdown of the barriers in gendered fashion (or, at least, what we currently consider to be fashion for that gender). Side note, I've noticed that while casual wear is getting more unisex, formal wear is still feels *very* gendered. You choose either man's suit or woman's dress (at least most of the time). My poor nonbinary friend struggles with this whenever we have to dress up.

[@animatorireenie8319]

Although I'm not nonbinary, I can definitely relate. Hope it'll change. I think the "men can't wear feminine clothing" comes from the mindset that "everything feminine is weak". So yeah. That certainly sucks.

[@bethqmount1160]

Yes we need some combo wear! Long flowing jackets and dress with sleeves.

[@imtooqueerforthis]

Yesss formalwear is so difficult when one prefers androgyny! So polarised! For my high school formal I ended up wearing a dress and being completely dolled up but I was happier wearing a suit jacket, shirt, and pants with a couple feminine touches to my graduation dinner (as an afab enby ig it’s more affirming to wear the ‘masculine’ fashions that are less expected of me)

[@Blue_Caribou]

@Valeria L If it's no sleeves - and I'm going to assume you're northern hemisphere here and it's winter, so ignore this suggestion if I'm wrong! - You could style it with a formal jacket or blazer, maybe formal flats or heavier shoes rather than heels, and if you want to be extra maybe a "menswear" style hat (I love 20s and 30s style personally) - Of course, only as far as you feel safe/comfortable! I love a good oversize or "menswear" blazer over a dress though - nice and warm and big pockets so no need for a handbag!

[@Blue_Caribou]

@Valeria L Glad it helped! I hope you have a fantastic night :)

[@justlola417]

It's interesting to think that the period ppl are referring to when they say "back in the day women dressed like women and men dressed like men" lasted like one decade

[@VitorMarquesParker]

I was just thinking about the "Manly Men" video when this one came out Are you reading my mind, Karolina? :0

[@Crasher1982]

People - Attack sexism whenever you see it. This has been my short TED talk. Thank you.

[@linootte]

On one hand, I feel like a lot of fashion is getting more and more unisex as you said, and yet there is a very strong opposite reaction, with things like the "bimbo" trope making a comeback, the influence of the Kardashian family, the increasing pressure to do plastic surgery, or for men, the rise of fitness gurus that preach masculinity as a lifestyle...

[@TMB62]

I really appreciate your historical knowledge on these fashion trends.

[@tarawolf425]

I wanted to get advanced enough in dressage so I can wear the tail coats. Also there's one painting where one of the shirt buttons is unbuttoned. Can you imagine messing up bottoning your jacket and the artist not telling you while your sitting for a whole portait, and they just painted it in? Great video!

[@maudline]

Didn’t pay attention but if it was the bottom button then it’s on purpose.

[@tarawolf425]

@@maudlineYeah I'd get it if it were a bottom button. Bur this was a middle button.

[@SimpleDesertRose]

And two think all this time I was under the impression that mens wardrobes were only meant to improve ours. I'm absolutely appalled that all this time we have been stealing mens fashions and appropriating them for your own. 😱😂

[@makaylaserniotti1474]

Honestly I have such a hyperspecific interest in late 19th century western fashion and your videos always scratch that itch for me. Love it. ❤️

[@vanitybenevolent]

Me, a writer, trying to write in a woman wearing somewhat masculine clothing in her historical era novel: Write that down, write that down!!

[@eykyra]

I love this analysis because it makes more clear how it's typically women who appropriate men's clothing and rarely the other way around. I think it has a lot to do with power and how women as the opressed side starting wearing garments that were only allowed for men has been seen as conquering spaces while for a man to wear something that was restricted to women is seen as degrading and a cause of embarrassment. I feel like that still hasn't changed at all in history ever. Men who wear skirts, makeup and other typically feminine things are seen as weird and non masculine, and it's only socially accepted in the entertainment industry, while in real life it's still scandalous.

[@chickenontheocean]

I'm really not into history, nor fashion but damnit Karolina always makes me wanna watch and learn, this is definitely called charisma

[@mantailuaa]

Thank you for this walkthrough in fashion. As an 1980's teen I have never been labelling people by what they wear. Teens in the 80's were totally unisex from top to toe and hairstyle was the same too. Many times you could not say from behind if the person in front of you was male or female. I'm missing the vibrant colours of that time period but not so much the other style of clothes.

[@sconesandjam]

Oh I've been waiting for this. Thank you so much, Karolina!

[@jillianlutes152]

Hot take: women appropriating men's fashion has always been, in some way or another, about access. In athletics, access to range of motion. In business attire, economic opportunity. There's an entire video to be had simply on the complicated history of female business attire and the messy dynamic of trying to blend in with a predominantly male culture while still looking "like a woman," whatever that means at the time. As a female pastor, I could easily wax lengthy about the eternal struggle to look feminine without sticking out like a sore thumb among colleagues. Eventually, I decided I didn't care about the issue of sticking out and just ran with bright colors to my heart's content no matter how many black suits there were around. I'll probably wear something closer to black for my friend's ordination this weekend, though, just so that I don't upstage him. ;)

[@BrianA-dq7gv]

Wonderful and very insightful. And I loved the "How Do I Pronounce Mary Read's Name" blues.

[@escapismfetishism2689]

There's no wrong way to drape cloth over one's flesh prison.

[@chrissyelric7134]

That's true

[@miraaa19]

Absolutely!

[@littleredarmy3176]

This is so fucking corny go outside

[@jisungs_cheeks]

@@littleredarmy3176 why don't you try that yourself , sweetheart and tell me about it

[@littleredarmy3176]

@@jisungs_cheeks Yes its nice and grounding and i dont say stupid corny shit like OP. U should go outside sometime its worth it.

[@christopherbarber9351]

Thank you! I really appreciate when you include segments of struggling with pronunciation!

[@spookysiamesecat4214]

I find I kinda cool how mens fashions have historically changed over the years, but the only weird thing was them wearing wigs

[@meridaskywalker7816]

Not really. Look at the late reneissance portraits of men for example.

[@spookysiamesecat4214]

@@meridaskywalker7816 oh ya true, the renaissance is a good period, with different kinds of fashions

[@WolkeYume]

So true! Those rules of what is male fashion and what is female fashion is just something we made up, and pressuring people over it is honestly so ridiculous! Especially loved your closing part!!

[@gaesimp__]

I love how gendered fashion is so intertwined that anyone can really wear anything and it could be masculine or feminine

[@lydias8303]

I cannot even tell you how excited I am to watch this video.

[@daxxydog5777]

So, when I was in elementary school in the late 60s and early 70s in the Southern US, we HAD to wear dresses to school, never pants! And I’m not talking Catholic school, this was in public school in a predominantly Southern Baptist culture. To get around that on the playground where we were flinging ourselves about on swings and monkey bars, we wore shorts under our dresses. Then they finally lifted that ban around third grade and we could wear pants. Yay! I’m sure the Baptists (of which I was one) were chagrined to find out we all didn’t end up lesbians just because we wore pants.

[@astara3770]

Karolina always coming in with the historical facts 🙌🙌

[@MagdaleneDivine]

I didn't know I dressed like a boy until like a couple years ago (I'm 41) when I was bickering with someone and they said well ...you dress like a boy and I was like.....really? But they were right. The only female thing I wear are booty shorts around the house. They were like " yeah look you even the down your boobies" and I wear sports bras. It was also the year I learned I was actually a literal midget. 38 was a year I really learned so much about myself

[@lyreparadox]

💖

[@drywalleater13628]

Your video on Harry Styles wearing a dress is literally my favorite video on the internet. This is also great

[@IDoDeclareify]

Loved this! I’m always such a fan of people playing with gender in fashion. I’d love to bring back some 16th century doublets!

[@ChestersonJack]

Very good point. And I’ve always wondered why the more androgynous-presenting ladies in button up shirts and tall slacks didn’t give off the same aesthetic I wanted for myself, no matter how other people said (for better or worse, compliment or insult) that they looked “manly.” It was all about cut and fit of the clothes. It’s also one reason why binders are so helpful, they allow men’s tailored clothing to drape in a way where it looks like it is “on a man,” and no just “a woman in men’s clothes.” I cannot wear a binder for sensory reasons, but I found a wonderful video where I woman made her own work-out bra by using a pattern she made to make her own stays. I imagine specialized corsetry can help with my shape some, but that’s a whole other tangent. Love your videos Karolina, and the things I learn are very useful!

[@lizzzylavender]

Since women nowadays can wear like all “men’s” clothing without anyone batting an eye, I hope we move towards men being able to wear “women’s” clothing like skirts and makeup and stuff without being ridiculed or called gay. I think we can see the very start of it now, with some celebrities like Harry Styles and stuff, although the pushback is huge. I just think it’s so sad that men are confined so much more than women when it comes to self expression, which I suppose is also stemming from the same societal view that ridicules men for feeling emotion and liking things that is considered “for women.”

[@killjoy2420]

Here we have a saying ''Don't put the carriage before the horse''. To change something, you should understand the social context first. So what's the context of the stigma? It goes deeper than just fashion. Fashion world can't enforce changes onto people just like that, it's not almighty, and it doesn't exist in a vacuum either. So you should answer the question ''why is there such strong reaction to something'' in the first place. You also need to understand the context men put into it, because it gets reproduced among men, it's part of their socialization. Women aren't the fierce gatekeepers of it. There needs to be a societal change in what most people avoid talking or even thinking about so far. Also improvement in the realm of gender for men comes as a byproduct of feminist changes for women. So what could it be that hasn't changed in the status of women that a lot of men don't want to be associated with?

[@contagiousintelligence5007]

No

[@mmitaliano]

I adore the reference photos you included in this video.

[@judithbell6937]

I mean, mediaeval tunics are really no different to a dress! I think if a loose-fitting, split skirt wool gown and joggers (i.e. tunic and hose) came into men's fashion today, they'd be very practical for these colder months. All of those icons are my heroes and I want to be them when I grow up. Cross-dressing in formal suits isn't the most practical everday solution though, and modern casual clothes are very unisex. Clearly a sign I need to get me some puffy pants and a jerkin :3

[@lorrygeewhizzbang9521]

Watching this in pitch black dark...winter...with a glass of wine...and the rain hammering the windows. You should have your own show lady!! 💞

[@shirleygomes2004]

I love these historical videos!

[@herzetty]

Thank you so much for all the work you put into pulling original images and film for this fantastic video. As a nonbinary person who's figuring out gender and style, it's so validating to see such a long history of people doing the same.

[@ahumanistpotato]

Damn I only got three correct, now I understand what Samuel meant

[@rashmika9742]

I always love your videos and your sense of humour, Karolina. Thanks for researching all this and putting it together in such an entertaining format!

[@lilywhitetouhou]

I do cross dressing because I just LOOVE some outfits that are attributed to men. And I'm glad that people find it interesting rather than weird. Aaand a lot of my "manly" outfits look not "so devoted to man" when I'm wearing them (I look girly in some). I like to say that clothes have no gender.

[@DaisyDarling]

This is, in my opinion, the best video you’ve ever made. Succinct, to the point, totally accurate and I wish more people who consume popular culture today would bear this potted history of ‘genderising’ clothing in mind. Totally nailed it. I want to show every person this. From the “omg he’s wearing a dress” to the “oh wow that’s brave, she’s wearing a suit” there is NOTHING NEW in fashion and garments. There literally isn’t.

[@patpierce4854]

I can only imagine the size of your own personal clothing images gallery, from which all these photos were taken….! On a side note - I have been searching for YEARS, for my own ladies tuxedo for formal occasions, and never finding anything close to the Dietrich elegance. They all look like hotel or catering staff uniforms, rather than the polish and class one expects from that particular garment. I am a dog show judge, and it would be entirely appropriate for me to be wearing a feminine tuxedo when judging for a breed’s National Specialty show, particularly because the sports that I judge (Obedience and Rally) would be impossible to evaluate in an evening gown, or especially stilettos or other typically feminine dress footwear. To evaluate teams in my sports, imagine standing and running on concrete for 7-9 straight hours, in heels - and walking nearly 9 miles in a judging day - and not having the walking noise of my footwear or the flashy movement of a trailing hemline, distract the intricate performances of the dog and handler teams in my ring. I’ve drafted and sewn medieval and renaissance clothing for years, but never tried tackling suits or mens formal wear. Maybe I just need to find the Cloud where all your fantastic clothing images - and patterns! - are archived, and just fire up my sewing machine to sew what I’ve wanted, just for myself……

[@lilbugge10]

You're an absolute queen. Thank you for all this awesome history on women. I love learning that women have been pretty cool and playing with the borders of the roles that you are given for a long time