Doctor Reacts to THE LAST OF US // Episode 9

[@DrHopeSickNotes]

The first 100 people to use code DRHOPE at the link below will get 20% off of Incogni: incogni.com/drhope Thank you to everyone that has supported this series of breakdowns; despite doing this channel a few years this is only the third time I've covered a whole series (previously Cells at Work, This is Going to Hurt); so testament to how much I enjoyed The Last of Us. I'd love to know what you'd want to see next! So any ideas in terms of show / format let me know in the comments down below. Big love X

[@thelasthero3677]

Love the reactions to The Last of Us. Maybe do House of the Dragon it's got a bunch of medieval medical science and pretty entertaining to watch

[@thelasthero3677]

so House of the Dragon next?

[@FANGZyt]

House of the Dragon please

[@eme.261]

Would love you to cover STATION ELEVEN. It focuses on a flu pandemic that completely changes the world.

[@kylereese4822]

Joel's point of view... He many years ago did the math on world population in 2002 and the speed of infection( Friday - Monday) and transmission of infection by plane/car/train/boat/city 2 city/person 2 person and from that he`s worked out how many people it would take to get a viable population back in each country and his conclusion he knows it`s over. Also him being an ex-solder he knows that Elle is "" ELE = Extreme Level Extinction "" event has taken place decades earlier....

[@colonelb]

Interestingly enough, when they made the game in 2013 and asked test audiences, "did Joel do the right thing?", folks were torn 50/50 if they didn't have kids, but folks with kids unanimously agreed that Joel was right. And I think that speaks to what changes in people when they have kids and sums up parenting in a nutshell. The science gets a bit creative but it's because the point is really the underlying trolley problem, and the standoff that ensues. In the end, neither Marlene, nor Joel were willing to wake up Ellie to ask her what she wanted to do for the same reason: they were both afraid of how she would answer. And I think that is why the Bill and Frank story in episode 3 is there to serve as a contrast between Frank saying "do you love me? Then love me how I want you to" as an example of selfless love versus Joel's act being an (understandable) act of selfish love. Ellie's face at the end is priceless, you can tell she doubts Joel but is willing to go along with the lie because she loves him back. There is something real and messy about how that reflects family dramas and issues that we all can relate to but aren't always expressed so honestly in stories. Cheers

[@kavindunethsara3391]

💯exactly, that's why the franchise is very realistic because in the real world nothing is binary. there are many psychological perspectives like utilitarian perspective and deontological perspective, just like the relationship between batman and joker. my answer to "did Joel do the right thing?" is yes because in his psychological perspective he chose his selfish love. but if you ask me "will you do the same thing?" it actually depends on my relationship with Elie( sorry if I sounded like a selfish as**ole). In the real world which is right for me, can be wrong to someone else in their perspective. by the way how do we know even if they found a cure which is also 50/50. would the have been able to produce them with their limited recourses and i don't think that fedra would have help them Although we all should agree that this show is a masterpiece♥ “A hero would sacrifice you to save the world, but a villain would sacrifice the world to save you.”

[@d3l3tes00n]

@@kavindunethsara3391 I'm only ok with what he did because Marlene didn't give Ellie a choice. If Ellie would've said herself that she wanted to go through with it then I wouldn't agree with Joel disrespecting her wishes. I'd want my parents would respect my choice. However, lying to her, I do not agree with at all lol

[@Amaritudine]

That's the problem with the Fireflies: they were never going to give Ellie a choice in the first place. They're a radical paramilitary group, and completely willing to kill to get what they want. It's hard to imagine a scenario where Ellie said "no" and Marlene simply replied "well that's OK, never mind then". Even if they *had* asked her, is it really "informed consent" when a group of armed adults are telling a lone child that she needs to die so they can save the world?

[@Ikajo]

I don't have kids and have no intentions of having any, I still agree with Joel's actions. Sans the killing, of course. All they had was a theory. Nothing else. No tests, no proof. And they were going to kill their only hope for that theory. That can never be the right thing.

[@user-vc5rp7nf8f]

that's interesting. i'd probably agree with that. i don't have kids and i think joel definitely fucked up. not COMPLETE fuckery, but he handled it in a way that was, ironically, not even in their best interests. i think part of him just couldn't stand losing a daughter a second time, and that part of his ego took over. first of all, killing a doctor when doctors are in short supply in an apocalypse isn't gonna do anyone any favours. second, this wasn't a small thing the fireflies were doing - they were literally trying to find a cure to put all of humanity back to normal. that's not a situation where you go in and kill everyone, no questions asked. when stakes are that high, you gotta try diplomatic ways first. have a discussion, ellie, joel, marlene, and the whole medical team, to see what the options are and how the approach will be. THAT'S the proper way. not blasting everyone because they said "no" to you. i get that's partly because he's haunted by the "inaction" he took with his real daughter and that scene with ellie and the dog, but it's still fucked. third, when you kill that many ppl, they're gonna come for you. you're not exactly creating a peaceful, safe future for yourself or ellie. ppl who've lost their own relatives, kids, or friends during that massacre are gonna wanna get even, and what better way than through ellie. retribution is not a joke, especially in a lawless apocalyptic land. you're gonna live forever looking behind your shoulder, and that's no way to live. in joel's defense, after having gotten to know ellie and seeing her spirit, soul, humour, and bravery, i wouldn't be ok with her just dying on the surgery table like that. i'd probably kill a few, but just enough to get everyone to have a discussion or negotiation. ultimately, ellie NEEDS to be involved in the decision somehow, whether joel or marlene like it or not. it's her life, and her choice. if she's considered not old enough to make that decision, then that situation needs to be explained to her properly so that when she's older, she can decide for herself what she wants to do.

[@dreero_]

I think the surgeon not attempting any kind of biopsy was proof enough that the fireflies had no idea what they were doing and that Ellie’s death would’ve been for nothing

[@senser4182]

copium

[@dreero_]

@@senser4182 I think you’re a little confused about what copium means, friend

[@glenncordova4027]

​@@senser4182 I don't think copium means, what you think it means.

[@BostonAmy]

"Joel, he mad" is the best diagnosis I've heard so far 😂. Thank you for addressing Ellie's PTSD. So many people believed her "mood" was due to their journey coming to an end. I was like, "Did you even watch episode 8?" As someone who suffers from PTSD and panic disorder, I understand Ellie's headspace and detachment. It's a horrible place "live". Weeks/Months can go by where things are ok and something will just flip it on like a light switch. Anyway, I've really enjoyed your reactions and would love to see longer reactions to the story as well as the medical aspect. You're very calming to listen to. Whatever you choose next, I'm here for it!

[@TheMissBunnyBoo]

I don't think a child suffering from mental health problems due to very recent trauma is an ideal candidate to be giving consent for a deadly operation in the first place, even if they had asked her and it was guaranteed to work.

[@uncledonel1742]

I feel like it's important to consider the potential consequences of denying Ellie the opportunity to make this choice. By taking away her autonomy and deciding on her behalf, we may inadvertently cause further harm and resentment (which seems to be the case here). Ellie may feel powerless, as though she has no control over her own life and destiny. This could exacerbate any existing trauma and guilt, creating additional emotional distress. It's true that she has a lot of PTSD because of David, but by involving her in the decision-making process, we are not only respecting her autonomy but also providing her with a sense of agency and control, which can be crucial for emotional healing. I've always had the impression that Ellie's guilt has moreso to do with her surviving something incredibly traumatic (like SA, for example), something she wished her friends could've also done. But none of them made it, only she did. I'd also note that the post-apocalyptic world in which the show is set is very different from our own. In such a world, children are often forced to grow up much faster than they would in a more stable environment. They are exposed to violence, danger, and death on a daily basis, and are often required to make life-or-death decisions at a young age. In this context, Ellie's experiences have likely forced her to mature more quickly than a child in our world would.

[@deeanna8448]

When I watched this, I was internally screaming at the plan to harvest her brain. I was thinking "so you aren't going to take serum samples? CSF samples? Brain biopsy?" We're really going straight for terminal surgery?"

[@Fucisko]

Especially when she's the only know immune person in the world right now. They were about to kill the only person that could theoretically produce the cure without knowing how exactly they would make the cure. If this were to happen in real life she'd be tested for months just to figure out how to make the cure/vaccine and they'd keep her basically until they already have it produced and tested.

[@myvids4329]

Yes it is a bit of a leap. They probably could have spent some time going through those options but this is the end result the creators wanted i.e; an impossible dilemma. Not only that but for Joel to have to lie to Ellie about it too.

[@deeanna8448]

@@myvids4329 sure, it definitely makes sense from a story building standpoint.

[@nhatan1724]

Its also good to remember that they dont really have all the time in the world to do tests and such, there are raiders and huge groups of infected going around that also sorta migrate (confirmed on the second game). If they waited a few weeks or more theres no garantee that they wont lose the hospital, or that the doctor isnt going to die

[@d3l3tes00n]

Who knows how qualified any of these people are anyway

[@drbo42]

I always found the discussion around Ellie's ability to choose her fate here interesting. Even if you disregard the fact that she's a minor, the sheer survivor's guilt she's dealing with from the mall incident makes her desire to sacrifice seem all the more unacceptable.

[@kensredemption]

12:50 Bruv, you’re gonna be kicking yourself when you find out the backstory behind the “doctor” operating on Ellie; and the fact that the Fireflies are desperate revolutionaries willing to do anything and everything to recruit people to their cause: It doesn’t surprise me that they’re gung ho for anything that’ll give them an edge over FEDRA, regardless of the consequences.

[@AlphaGamer1981]

I work as an NHS Security guard at my local hospital. I'm the guy that takes the punches so the doctors and nurses don't have to, I was mainly assigned to the Children's A&E section, and I mainly had to deal with Teenagers with serious mental health issues and honestly its truly heartbreaking. As much as I love our NHS the mental health system is very, very flawed here in the UK mainly because its overwhelemed, but so many patients are failed by the system and I have had to be on the receiving end of it. I have had to go home broken, crying my eyes out because I have had to spend 12 hours restraining a 14 year old girl who was begging me to kill her because the voices were driving her to suicide and by dying would finally give her peace. She came in pretty much every week and just got sedated and fobbed off all the time. She was pleading for help, actually begging, while crying that nobody will do anything for her. She did eventually get moved to a childrens mental health hospital, but she was just on a long waiting list, and covered in self harming scars. I have had to sit with children with severe ptsd and developed multi personality disorders where they would just snap into this demonic state that was completely different from their calm lucid selves, what makes it more tragic is nearly all these kids have been messed up as a result of physical or sexual abuse, and while some will tell you their story, It takes such a hard toll on you as a person, and as i said, I have gone home broken because of it and had to hold my wife while bawling like a baby. I just wish I could have done more for them or even brought more awareness to the situation, because mental health in the uk especially with teenagers is a real thing and it needs better support.

[@Kronx1970]

I like that when they came upon that giraffe and Ellie says "Sooo fucking cool" it lets the audience know Ellie is still in there, albeit underneath a ton of trauma, but she's still in there. And when you said "Joel, he mad." I can't help but think back to Ep3 with the note Bill left for Joel. "We have a job to do. And God help any motherfuckers who stand in our way."

[@AliceSylph]

The explanation given in the show about the chemical markers make no sense. Infected don't attack other infected. The fan game theory is not that Ellie is "immune" but that she is infected with an alternative fungus from the same family. There's a cordyceps type that is used as an antifungal medication (militaris?). In medical files found in the game, it says she has cordyceps but not what kind, and that she has low red and white blood cell count. The antifungal cordyceps has a known side effect of low red and white blood count. If she was infected by this strain it could explain how the infected cordyceps isn't able to take hold of her, but she isn't infected so infected still attack and try to bite her.

[@cfmusic3752]

I probably wrote way too much for how many will read this comment, but here we go lol: His personal feelings for Ellie aside, Joel was absolutely in the right to stop the surgery. There is so much wrong with the way the Fireflies handled Ellie both ethically and medically. From a medical standpoint, they went straight for terminal neurosurgery after having her in a lab for like, a day? No additional long term tests run? No long term bloodwork? Stress tests to see how her body handles the theoretically symbiotic fungi? Long term tests or observations to see how her body may change over time having this fungus? That’s not even counting the fact that she’s the only known carrier of this immunity-granting fungus, so if anything goes wrong with the extraction of the fungus from Ellie, that’s it 🤷‍♂️ no time to try to find another solution, just head to life-ending surgery immediately. The development of this vaccine would have been ground-breaking even in the modern world pre-cordyceps, yet they give it a fraction of the time and consideration, and with a sliver of the research and development resources that would have been available before the outbreak. It was a long shot even under the best of circumstances. Also, there’s the consideration that the story of The Last of Us occurs roughly 20 years after outbreak day, and the attending surgeon for Ellie’s surgery looks to be in his 40’s if we’re being generous, which would likely have made him around 20-25 around the outbreak. This would have put him as being a med student or resident at best once the world ended, not a neurosurgeon with years of experience. How qualified is this guy really to even perform this surgery in the first place? Or even recommend that performing a terminal surgery is the only way to extract those cells from Ellie? Or guarantee they’d be able to take those cells and successfully reproduce them in a lab with minimal staff and resources as well as the lack of ability to even sterilize environments properly because it is the POST APOCALYPSE. Do they have all the relevant specialists to develop this treatment? One neurosurgeon is not going to be able to accurately and safely perform this literal MIRACLE on his own, not without a massive amount of help and resources that the Fireflies almost certainly do not have access to. Then even assuming the cure was somehow made and worked perfectly, how do you have the anywhere near the logistics possible to produce a vaccine/treatment on a mass scale and distribute it to quote, “Everyone”? That’s all the materials required to safely store, transport, and administer this vaccine to all people in all different geographic situations in at the very least, the continental US. This would be impossible unless the world had returned to some state of industrialization, which it is clear by the end of the Last of Us that it has not. This would all even be assuming the treatment interacts with all people properly and is always administered correctly. AND assuming that the cordyceps doesn’t adapt and overcome the treatment once it has been used in a massive population. That’s way too many assumptions and “if’s” to be able to justify choosing to immediately end Ellie’s life. And THEN there’s the complete lack of moral/ethical considerations. Not only was Ellie never offered the chance to give informed consent to this life ending procedure, and was purposefully kept unconscious the whole time, even if she was awake and fully lucid she’s likely not even able to give informed consent at the time. Not only is she a minor, but at the time in the story she’s clearly displaying strong symptoms of PTSD, possibly depression, potentially has survivor’s guilt, and she could be prone to making reckless, self-destructive, or even suicidal decisions because of it. Even if Ellie said “yes, please kill me with this surgery for the vaccine”, there’s no way to guarantee she is capable of fully coming to that conclusion in a completely informed and rational way on her own. Not to mention the fact that the Fireflies would have been pressuring the hell out of her to go through with it. And, if Ellie had said no, they almost certainly would have forced her to go through it anyway. Like Marlene had even said, the Fireflies made it seem as though there was no other choice, when there absolutely was. Joel was absolutely right to step in and stop an incompetent group of wannabe saviors from rushing to recklessly and needlessly kill Ellie.

[@Pandaemoni]

I am not sure would have been "cinematic" to have a montage of many months or years worth of medical testing. I suspect the writers wanted to skip the "boring" parts of medical science that would have been a string of irrelevant failures leaving them with terminal brain surgery as their only option. That also would have meant we would have, at some point, heard Ellie's opinion on whether she was willing to die. And I think the point was for the *_players/viewers_* to think about the issue. If Ellie tells us what she wants, a lot of people will stop doing the hard mental work and just default to "do what Ellie wants." It would be a much less memorable ending if there was too clear an answer to who was right and who was wrong.

[@hominessapientes]

Thank you. I basically wrote the same, with much less detail.

[@soulcstudios]

This is one of the best summaries addressing every single point about the Fireflies BS. I've seen these points brought up separately but not all at once. It soothes my soul.

[@coolfool183]

Spot on, and it’s hard to look past this. It completely undercuts the dilemma they try to set up because there is no dilemma. Poor writing on their part

[@killgoretrout9000]

One point you missed was power the Fireflies lacked it and seem a small and rather ineffective group the one example we have of them taking over a city is Pittsburgh which David's group fled from so Firefly control wasn't much of boon for them. If the Fireflies have a cure/vaccine they go from being a rather ineffective group to the most powerful group in North America that lust for power makes them both reckless and callus.

[@ghostofamoment]

I love how you break things down in a way that's clinical but not joyless; clearly having fun on the journey pointing things out without it being like "this is fake, this would NEVER happen" etc

[@UltimaTheSeraph]

That's why I like him better than Dr Mike. He understands that a sci-fi is a fiction. Even a movie like Interstellar that was built around real science and involved a real well-known scientist had to implement their sci-fi at some point.

[@SpaceNerd117]

I've seen some speculation online that the reason they jumped to maximally invasive surgery was because they lacked the equipment and/or trained personnel to do any of the less-lethal options, because, ya know, zombie apocalypse means that stuff isn't being made, the maintenance of the hospital seemed to be severely lacking, and probably they didn't have the most trained medical people on hand.

[@romanejerome168]

Which makes it even more insane that that was their decision - risky short term procedure with low chance of success and shabby equipments that will end up in the expiration of a unique specimen, over keeping her alive and studying her over an extended period of time to figure out in depth their options. They made that choice in seemingly just a few hours when there was no rush at all.

[@rmsgrey]

@@romanejerome168 To be fair, they've known she was coming for a while - at minimum, since Marlene arrived, quite possibly longer - so they've had time to come up with theories and figure out potential options. It's still a drastic step to take so immediately rather than running less lethal testing for a while, but it's not like she arrived out of the blue and they immediately thought "lets cut her up and use the pieces"

[@Creshosk]

@@rmsgrey They came up with theories and ideas for what to do for a test subject they didn't have and had no way of studying? That makes them seem even less qualified. "Oh, yeah, we were planning on removing her brain before she ever left her home." Sounds more like they just wanted to kill someone for fun in that case.

[@AbsolutBex]

My takeaway from how Ellie became immune was not only the bite, but the cord was cut with the knife that just stabbed a cordyceps, so that probably transferred too.

[@Grizabeebles]

Writers love their foreshadowing, so I watched the lecture in the first episode about fungus/evolution again. Newborns tend to have a body temperature a couple degrees higher than their mother right after birth. It could just be as simple as Ellie having maintained a higher-than-normal body temperature her whole life.

[@jonathansmith3256]

A couple of points I'd noted based on the game and my own experiences. 1) In the game the surgeon is revealed to not be medically trained but the closest thing to an actual surgeon the Fireflies have access to (a biologist - specifically I believe a Zoologist). 2) It may be that Ellie was infected with another species of Cordyceps that has provided some protection against the Zombifying Cordyceps (Ophiocordyceps unilateralis) by enabling the generation of antibodies that have some efficacy towards O. unilateralis. The fungus Ophiocordyceps sinensis has been used to produce several medicines (used for a long time in Chinese medicine) with one noticeable drug being the anti inflammatory drug Cyclosporine. 3) A big thing to note is that if Ellie had the procedure explained and knew the risks and benefits of the procedure, she could be deemed Gillick Competent providing her own consent for the procedure. Given that both Marlene and Joel can claim to be "responsible" for Ellie as a carer it is difficult to say either is right.

[@Pandaemoni]

"Informed consent" doesn't always apply in exigent circumstances. I wonder of Ellie's case was meant parallel Mary Mallon (aka Typhoid Mary), a carrier of the typhoid fever bacteria who was not herself adversely affected by it in any way. The State of NY quarantined her, against her will, and performed medical experiments on her (again, very much against her will, as she unsuccessfully sued them to try to get them to stop). At least some of the (failed) experiments aimed to figure out why the pathogen wasn't harming her in the way it would a typical person, and then use that as a basis top develop a treatment. Ultimately, because she had this pathogen in her system, she was a prisoner for 30 years (and she died still a prisoner at age 69).

[@117steveng]

She died on North Brother Island which is off limits to the public.

[@idkfa1000000]

Ellies mom is played by the actor who did Ellie in the game. also one of the nurses is Laura bailey who played abby a char in the second game.

[@Fucisko]

The connection is less about Abby and more the fact that she played the nurse in the game as well.

[@Chris_W.]

One of the creative writers, Craig Mazin, also directed the HBO mini series Chernobyl. Highly recommend making this your next react series.

[@thechatteringclown]

one of the reasons why they changed cordiceps from an airborn transmitter to an ingested one actually. filming that series, the guy realized he didn't like working with people wearing protective gear all the time, as that way they couldn't emote with their faces due to the masks, so they got rid of the air mask requirement from the games.

[@BrendanBeckett]

@@thechatteringclown It also made it implausible that there would be any people left alive 20 years later

[@jillmayer9501]

YESSSSS.

[@saranshgautam6551]

Yesss. Bump

[@thedeepfriar745]

I will say that as dad with a young child. That protector instinct that parents have is a very powerful thing. I’d do anything for my kid.

[@SidPhoenix2211]

13:35 that is exactly the case, here. In the games we see a fungal X-ray of a cordyceps infected person and the fungus is really entangled in the brain. And since that mutated sample are what the doctors are after... Ellie probably would die in the process.

[@gabriellecompeau7683]

If I remember correctly, in the game you could find notes all over the place from the 'doctor' which put his credentials and his knowledge into question. In the game at least, he was flying blind and going off of wild assumptions. That's why (in the game at least) the surgery didn't really make sense. The vaccine was a wild pipe dream from start to finish and the 'doctor' really didn't know what he was doing. I think they implied this as well in the show with that one episode with the specialist on fungi because she said a vaccine wouldn't be possible.

[@darryljack6612]

This is actually disproven in the 2nd game. Where we see actual acknowledgement that he was indeed as really known and talented doctor. Everyone always uses this theory to justify Joel's actions, but it is just a theory for which is literally disproven. I think a fault of the game as a whole is using the wrong terminology with the word "vaccine", but the game's devs themselves (while knowledgeable in what they created) aren't scientists or doctors. The game is more or less a moral test, if you put too much real world thought into it, like all fiction there is going to be holes.

[@beccazach]

The 1968 and 2003 scientists never thought that anyone could be immune either, and yet Ellie is immune. Their knowledge only extends to what they know at that time period, but Ellie's immunity is a medical phenomenon that no one understands yet. So the surgeon and any other qualified medical professional can only make an educated hypothesis and do the best they have with the limited resources available if they want to make something that would save ppl from the fungus. Time also moves faster in the apocalypse bc of how dangerous the world is and the amount of ppl dying every day, so they likely felt rushed into doing surgery if they have specific plans of creating the treatment before their outposts get wiped out by FEDRA, raiders, or infected.

[@myvids4329]

It doesn't actually matter if the "vaccine" would have worked or not, Joel would have done what he did anyways. That's the whole point

[@Сайтамен]

@@darryljack6612 The second game tries to retcon this, but just causes contradiction. The Fireflies didn't pay Joel for delivering Ellie and doing extra work, they didn't ask Ellie's constent, didn't gather every resourse and every test they could to make sure the cure was guaranteed. And even if vaccine was made, it wouldn't save the world - you can't distrubute it and millions of infected can still rip you apart, or raiders can shoot you. So Joel did the objectively correct thing, even if for selfish reasons.

[@SidPhoenix2211]

@@darryljack6612 Plus, all the recordings you find the first game let you know that they did, in fact, do some tests. They determined that this is the best course of action. And they have been researching cordyceps for a WHILE now. So they're not exactly flying blind.

[@ashleighlakomy9314]

I've heard the theory that the surgeon was a med school dropout/ failed student bc what skilled surgeon would go straight to fatal surgery when he has the only immune person on the planet to test (that they're aware of)

[@fourcatsandagarden]

last episode (of your review series) it 'dawned' on me that they could've started testing Ellie when she was a baby but then when I was about to talk about that in my comment I immediately realized...they didn't know she was immune until after she was bit. So they just treated her like a baby who was like everyone else up until she survived a bite. good job silly brain. That said, its still a very big problem that they immediately jumped to 'take out her brain' without even trying any tests at all first, let alone not asking her consent in the first place.

[@sylviagreybe672]

1) No consent. 2) No guarantee of a cure.

[@wendypierce5621]

Such a fascinating ending. The Fireflies might’ve had a decent idea about the cure, but killing their best subject was a horrible idea. I don’t buy that one doctor could’ve finished the process.

[@tristanholderness4223]

16:50 I agree with you that Ellie probably would have gone through with it anyway, it's really a bit rich Marlene trying to play that card when she didn't actually give Ellie a chance to make that (informed) choice. She may have been correct, but she wasn't willing to bet on it I don't think Joel's any better here ofc, especially as he doesn't tell her the truth after the fact and goes beyond that by lying repeatedly about it

[@Laurel_Ellenstreet]

He knows she's already burdened by survivor's guilt and fragile from trauma. Joel is shown as caring about her emotional well-being from the beginning (faltering when he's hanging by a thread emotionally in Jackson, but in the end prioritizing her emotional needs over his own.) SHE subliminally knows she needs the lie for now, because she's clearly suspicious but accepts it. He should tell her the truth at some point,vand to me the timing of that is the dilemma. I'd also wish (no spoilers) to see a true exploration of Ellie's agency on this question at some point, considering ALL options for sharing her immunity including who else besides the FFs could make the best use of her gift in terms of skill and resources - and who'd most misuse it. (No way would I buy that this lab is the only team in the world.)

[@BuddyWithTheSideburns]

I'm really happy that you brought up that Ellie's informed consent was ignored by all adult parties in deciding her fate. A few people I've discussed the ending with seem to forget the moment where Marlene says "We didn't tell her." Both adults trusted with protecting Ellie think they're doing that by lying to her. Neither seem to realize (or care) that they're really protecting themselves. Marlene's motivations are certainly less selfish than Joel's, but the act is still dubious. If she wasn't willing to tell Ellie about what the surgery would entail, does she actually believe Ellie would go through with the sacrifice? It's beautiful, authentic human folly, on both characters' parts. I'd love to see someone delve into the psychology of what Marlene and Joel are going through in this episode.

[@alice45-fgd-456drt]

I agree that both Marlene and Joel ignored Ellie's consent, but at least with Joel's choice Ellie has a chance to make her own decision later on. A 14-yearold with PTSD and severe survivor's guilt can't give informed consent, especially not to their own death, so asking her at that point in time would've been pointless. Joel took her out of the situation and made sure she can make a choice later on.

[@BuddyWithTheSideburns]

@@alice45-fgd-456drt Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm 100% Team Joel. Part of what I love about this show and the game is that, for all the things that can be rationalized in Joel's decision, selfishness still plays a huge part in it. Putting himself at risk to save a kid from being sacrificed against her will is, nominally, an altruistic act. Giving Ellie a chance at life is, in my mind, the right call, especially considering that there's not much of a world left to save. Plus, there's not much that a parent won't do to save their child's life. Joel clearly has come to view Ellie as his daughter. Therein, however, lies the gorgeous flaw. For everything that is noble about what Joel does, there is an undercurrent of selfishness. Even if he doesn't realize it, he's saving Ellie as much for his own needs as hers. He can't lose another kid. He needs to have a daughter again, and he worries that he'll only lose her another way if he tells her the truth. He doesn't trust her to make the decision he wants her to make if she has all of the information. And that's heartbreaking. You can see how open and optimistic he is in that last scene. But, from the way Pedro Pascal played it, you can also sense his desperation. This NEEDS to work for Joel. Ellie NEEDS to be the thing that fixes him. For all the love in his heart, that's still manipulative. I don't think he's actively trying to be that way, but it's definitely there. It's beautiful. They could have made it cut and dry. I know some friends of mine were worried they'd clean up the game's ending to appeal to a wider audience. I'm so glad that they didn't.

[@francescofavro8890]

they only part about the finale that always bugged me (it's 100% like this in the game) is how they jump straight to lethal biopsy. This is your only test subject, you tested her once and the first thing you try is cutting up her brain? What if the chemical is produced elsewhere in the body? who says it's produced locally where the cordiceps grows? but no, let's kill the miracle child immediatly, and hope we can mantain a continuous cell culture from her.

[@SidPhoenix2211]

that's the thing tho: they DID determine where these chemicals are produced: the brain. Because the cordyceps grows in the brain. That's what has mutated and is the cause for her immunity. Both in the game and in the show, the doctors did do some tests, they have been studying cordyceps for a while now.

[@phoenixrising8231]

​@@SidPhoenix2211 cordysecps don't grow in the brain. They take over the nervous system and send signals to the brain. You can't take real life science and use it in your show. Only to bastardized it later. Elle asked Joel was it hard to kill some of the infected because they still seemed human. He said yes. In the convenience store, Elle found a clicker. The clicker' eye moved according to the movement of her knife. Clickers can't see. Sam asked if he would remain in the monster.

[@beccazach]

@@SidPhoenix2211 This!! If even someone like Joel knows that cordyceps grows inside the brain and that ppl have been trying to make vaccines for 20 years now, that means there's already been plenty of research.

[@bombomos]

Shows you just how flawed the fireflies are and they were always going to fail. Abby's father is just a murderer, cuz he has infact done the same exact thing to other people.

[@alice45-fgd-456drt]

@@SidPhoenix2211 That's not necessarily true though, because the chemical doesn't really have to be produced where the fungus grows. Either way, say that is the case, that stops the second brain activity dies, so killing her is still the wrong choice.

[@phantomthedragoness]

3:59 while dogs are the most thought of when it comes to emotional therapy, horses and cats are probably the best. I have dogs, cats and horses, and while my dogs are first to my side, wanting cuddles and pats, I've found horses to be the most rewarding.

[@AlfiRizkyR]

Thanks for the brain stem growth idea. It's a really good cop-out to explain away why even a procedure of biopsy to get some samples could potentially be fatal to Ellie. Thank you for the series!

[@Laurel_Ellenstreet]

I can believe they don't have a neurosurgeon or post-op support - but that would lead to questions of why NOW?

[@samanthavanostran5144]

In the game you find pictures of scans of her brain and its too intertwined with her brain and they said that it would most definitely kill her

[@KeithDCanada]

If cordyceps, in this show, that affects humans, grows in the brain...... then it is very different from the cordyceps that infects insects currently. In insects, it infects most places in the body EXCEPT the brain. The brain controls autonomic functions, like your organs. The entire points of the fungus is to keep it's host alive as long as possible to be a carrier to infect nearby colonies. It specifically sets up and multiples in muscle tissue and other areas, leaving the brain alone, which it then floods with hallucinogenic chemicals to induce a state of euphoria, which it uses the insect's muscles to move it around where it needs to be. Only after the insect finds it's permanent residence (the spot where the fungus directs it to attach itself to a leaf at specific locations relative to colony traffic) does the fungus fully start to consume it's host in it's entirety. At the end of it's life cycle, a fungal shoot does protrude from the back of the insect's head, where a spore pod grows to help spread the fungus further after death.

[@swatiherlekar5513]

"All those scars are not gonna heal but they are moving along in the future." Beautiful.

[@pammclaughlin8210]

Giraffe was from the Calgary zoo! They had them get used to the actors and what was going on….was very interesting to see

[@Firedrakee]

Putting aside whether the explanation for the immunity/cure is believable or not keep in mind that Marlene or the doctor she's working with might not have any clue what they're talking about, considering 1. there probably isn't a lot of equipment around to properly research the fungus 2. it's been 20 years since 'the world ended' so no one has had any proper medical training since and 3. their plan is to cut open and kill the only person in the world (that we/they know of) that has shown any immunity so far, which shows they're being pretty reckless. Also not sure if anyone else has mentioned it already but I'm pretty sure Marlene in the show is played by the voice actress for Marlene in the game, Kathleen's sidekick (Perry) in episode 4/5 was played by the voice actor for Tommy, and one of the nurses in Ellie's surgery is played by the voice actress for a character called Abby in the second game.

[@jthomann71]

Joel did the right thing. The acknowledged experts in the field in the first 2 episodes admitted there was absolutely no way to create a cure or vaccine for a cordyceps infection and yet this doctor, decades removed from any means of doing valid research decides he knows how to create one based on nothing more than a guess. Ellie was in his care for a few hours at the most, he didn't no tests, no scans, he didn't have the time or means to do any research on his subject whatsoever. So he was willing to sacrifice a little girl on a hunch. And even if they had informed her that she would die, they definitely wouldn't have revealed that they had no idea if it would work OR that they couldn't possibly "save the world" since civilization had been collapsed for 20 years and there was no way of storing or distributing a cure globally. These people had a pipe dream and Joel knew Ellie's life was worth more than the risk.

[@alexspindler1]

Great reaction! It's wonderful to see you react "in the moment" and giving insight on the medical side and some open minded curiosity about the nature of the fungus.

[@mintmaddie3963]

i've seen an extensive critique of the choice made by the fireflies : they should have conducted tests over a long period on Elie before going for the surgery, they aren't very competent so joel choice to save her make sense...

[@luis_g_77]

What's the next level of beast mode? Liam Neeson in Taken mode

[@coladict]

The way I understand it is that when you're bitten, spores are deposited in the pierced skin, and those spores begin to grow into the fungus inside you. In Ellie's case she's already infected so that's preventing new spores from taking root. Her immune system is not what's beating it. However there's nothing special about the strain inside her, it's just that the timing when it grew her brain wasn't fully developed, so the fungus got confused. That also means that now that they know about those chemical messengers as a method of preventing infection, they don't need her infection specifically. And if they can start producing those messengers, that could work as a preventative cure so long as your body is saturated with them at the time you're bitten. Won't work once a new fungus starts growing after a bite.

[@jembawls]

Thanks again for covering this series! I've been following your channel for 3-4 years now and you're my fav doc on youtube, and TLoU is one of my fav games. Enjoyed the journey!

[@DrHopeSickNotes]

Thanks Jembawls! Great to have you along for the ride!

[@hominessapientes]

A few notes/thoughts: 1) You seem to have overlooked that the knife that cut the umbilical cord had been massively contaminated. Much more likely, her exposure to the fungus was directly caused rather then and there than from the mere seconds the fungus would have had to move through basically the entire mother's system to get to Ellie. Also, the fungal cord was left still attached to Ellie for the remainder of the scene (minutes vs. seconds). 2) Could - SciFi-ly speaking - the fungal cells going through the rest of the umbilical cord have been altered by the immunologically relevant compounds or maybe even the stem cells that were still in the cord and were naturally part of the cord or provided by Ellie's mother? That would put the drastic idea of fatal brain surgery into dumbdumbland, since the only non-fascist immunising strategy would be some stem cell therapeutic or/and to replicate potent compounds that do not require killing someone. 3) I hated the solution they went for in the show, meaning they (the characters) had absolutely no experience in what they were trying to do and were going for a wild experiment with no basis in science or ethics ("our doctor thinks he can..."): what if it doesn't work? -> you will have killed the only known carrier and likely the only known altered cordyceps at the same time; yes, general desparation, etc., but that is roulette, not science/medicine. Realistically speaking, that wouldn't remain 'the one shot', but would be the start of countless more such experiments, increasingly ruthless, since they would put themselves in dire need to justify their (initial) ethical transgressions (casino effect). 4) After beast mode comes terminator mode. 5) Joel prevents Ellie's life from being thrown away on a whim. The story he fabricates is meant to take the whole thing out of her head. Given what she has gone through, there is a good chance, she would rather give up in hopes of doing good than try to live with her traumas and possibly die anyway some time soon (he wants her to actually have a choice). What people who criticise Joel's decision seem to miss is that the fireflies were not trustworthy, they would very much have lied about the risks and the chances of success of the procedure. The very moment of encounter started with a lunatic throwing a grenade at a man and a girl. I celebrated every single one of those deaths. It was a line being drawn between the humane and the inhumane. Even Marlene had become a treacherous hostile agent. 6) I learned something very valuable concerning how not to move an anaesthecised person (hope that will never be necessary). Again, much appreciation for the entire series reaction and commentary. In case you want to have your hands full for months and months, Rick and Morty might be just the thing.

[@koboldmartian4063]

Another fun fact: One of the nurses in the surgery room is Laura Bailey, who is the voice actor of another crucial character in the Last of Us part II. She is also irl best friends with Ashley Johnson (voice of Ellie) and Troy Baker (voice of Joel) There is a scene where they focus in on the corpse of the doctor that Joel murdered. This is a hint at what is to come for The Last of Us Part II

[@bLuGhOsT_]

I can never have enough scrubs reactions personally!!!

[@tss3393]

Dude, you couldn't be more right when it comes to suicidal patients. I've started doing med history with my hospital's pharmacy department and seeing them/hearing what they had to go through really puts you in a humbling position. Especially when it's kids.

[@The_Story_Of_Us]

The hope is what they said, to reproduce the benign cordyceps that Ellie has inside of her and recreate her condition in everyone else. Not temporary immunity, permanent, like she has. And because Cordyceps isn't just the flu, it's not just some rhinovirus that just multiplies and causes a bunch of symptoms, Cordyceps needs to grow in incredibly specific ways within the brain to cause highly specific behaviors (it is again, sci-fi), they need to remove that structure from her brain to get anything out of it. Imagine trying to grow a human being from like a skin cell or trying to determine precise cause of death for a person by just looking at their blood during the autopsy. No they need to understand how this cordyceps has grown inside her brain, the place where those chemical messengers are growing. It'd be like trying to access a brain tumour without brain surgery.

[@Izayoiri]

My biggest issue with this part is that she indeed had no choice, and that means that their all deciding for her. The only way Joel would accept to let his daughter die (as that is what Ellie is now) is that they actually sat down and talked to her about it, that they told her she would die, then maybe, he could accept her decision.

[@ckid032393]

Sorry when was Joel supposed to give her a choice. She was unconscious on a operating table. Joel didn’t take away her choice the fireflyes did. She is also a minor and that choice should never have been on her. Also, don’t forget killing your only immune person without first trying a brain biopsy or anything else is incredibly dumb. The firefly’s were desperate and acting without thinking through the consequences of their actions.

[@mythtaken6610]

This is the one thing that I did not like about this story - the Fireflies somehow magically knowing after absolutely zero testing that the only thing they can do is kill Ellie by accessing her brain. It makes no sense and I had all the same thoughts - like, no blood, tissue, imaging tests? Legit none? This is your only test subject! And your first impulse is a surgery guaranteed to kill her? Nah - makes the Fireflies look silly and manufactures the conflict with Joel. I could see them getting to this same point, but I definitely needed more set up for it to work for me.

[@SohiHien]

The problem here is that Ellie is not in a good mindset to make a decision about loosing her life. She has been through a lot of trauma lately and was also told by people like Marlene that she is special and can "save the world". She would latch onto the idea of being a savior of the world instead of thinking her life is worth living. She clearly started this journey not thinking she would loose her life, talking about just doing tests and what her goals were after the cure was made. So she had a plan and wish to live but recent trauma may be making her slightly suicidal and not really in a good place of self worth to make a decsion about loosing her life for a potential cure.

[@davidtliu3]

For brain surgery, it is likely Ellie would have received a neuromuscular blocker during induction of general anesthesia (it looked like they were mask ventilating and ready for intubation right as Joel walked in); without intubation or mask ventilation until the drug wears off, Ellie would have died from hypoxemia within 3 to 6 minutes.

[@Nimbus3000]

The whole point of the end of this story is that you're meant to question the fireflys motives and morals. There's no guarantee anything they say is true or will work, they're meant to seem desperate and reaching for anything that MIGHT work at any cost. That's the moral dilemma the player is put through in the game. I think they did that well in the show as well, although to the viewer it seems obvious this is what Joel would do... in the game you (as Joel) are meant to be more conflicted.

[@UNGGodYT]

My problem with the retcon of ellie immunity is ... she was on FEDRA domain later on, and they use the thing to check if people is infected, and she is as that guard checked when they snuck out and was red, so how is she alive if she was infected from the start , everyone that arrives pass the test. The only way for it to work is the now red signal is from the cordyceps she got when they were bitten in the mall, maybe it goes away after a while since the sniffing dog did not smell it on her, but the machine found it.

[@BruderTux]

The dog was months after, so maybe the fungus from the bite has died of by then.

[@makoent2231]

2:00 In Zack Snyders 'Dawn of the Dead', they do have a scene where a pregnant woman is bitten, gives birth while she's turned into a zombie, and the baby ends up being a zombie as well.

[@captguyliner]

Love these explanations! Just wanted to point out a fun fact (if it hasnt been already) The woman that played Ellie's mother was the original voice actor for Ellie in the game, Ashley Johnson. Very fitting for her to give birth to the new Ellie. And the man Ellie kills with the machete in the last episode was the original Joel. Great to see them have a part in the show.

[@kokopuffs7618]

If I remember correctly, in the game Ellie has some sort of growth in her brain and they basically say that they can’t remove it without her dying in the process

[@levangiorgadze5842]

Btw the baby looked so young cuz it was few weeks old lol. It's rare that they use baby that young in shows and movies lol.

[@wtimmins]

Just a minor point, it's a real live giraffe! I thought that was so cool.

[@GamingNewsSummary]

I liked the theory of "Ellie Is Not Immune" by game theorist. The idea is that Ellie has the wrong type of cordyceps that makes her immune to the zombie version. I would like your opinion as there is a lot of medical talk in it. Not sure if you've covered it already.

[@wesleycolvin7158]

You are the first person, likely because you're a physician, to bring up 'informed consent'. She was denied the information regarding the procedure and the opportunity to make that decision for her self, even if she likely would have agreed to it. That this likely hasn't been tested long enough to prove that it'll be effective/ineffective, or if the body will reject it entirely is suspect. That they haven't given any indication that they've looked for an alternative that doesn't kill the patient, or given any indication that they've looked for anyone else that may be immune are also red flags. I'd need more paragraphs to go into the need for live and infected control groups. Since this is purely from a medical standpoint, I won't go into the ethics of Joel's actions.

[@keta-pillar]

I think the questions you asked about how the medical process and plan the Fireflies posed is warranted. We just have their word and idea of how the fungus works in Ellie. They are making an educated guess, but these are also doctors with at most 2003 medical knowledge, or just reading books post apocalypse. I was never sure when I played the games if it world work, but that's less of the point. Even if it isn't 100% sure they still want to try. I also agree that it is very strange that their first plan included killing Ellie; the only living immune person they have immediately. They dont even consider studying her blood or brain to see what's going on with her they just assume they know. This series has been amazing and introduced me to this channel, can't wait for what you've got in store coming up next!

[@kilian-one-l]

Learning about Joel's suicide attempt really adds something to the scene in episode 5, the way Joel immediately knew that Henry was going to kill himself

[@laurenneblett986]

I want to know your thoughts as a medical professional on the theory that Ellie got her immunity from the cutting of the umbilical cord. That knife had just been plunged into the brain of an infected.

[@theLOSTranger234]

the series really was just the perfect adaptation from the game while also adding to it! and cant wait for season 2! as for other stuff you could do. if you never heard of the show LOST? has more then new "medical scenes" scattered though out the run- or another zombie movie, war world z (thou it wasnt all too great, as the author of the book refuse to let them use the name for a sequel) but they do end up at the world health organization at one point there is also the 28 days/weeks movies! where it's a "Rage Virus" that makes you berserk

[@mchllwoods]

Laura Bailey was one of the nurses. She voiced Abby from the second game.

[@mimimimupf3429]

For me the biggest mehhhh was also the insta-kill version of getting the cure. There are SO MANY things that could have been done before actually killing her- also once she is dead you literally loose the host / you don't have a second chance if you mess up, so it's really the worst option. And you cannot tell me that Joel was out for so long they did all other tests first. Vice versa, if they've done no tests how do they know that the killing her option is the best one? I read somewhere that maybe some doctors who now hold the positions learned most things post apocalpyse / they lack actual experience or never finished their degrees before. Interesting idea that "they are not fully trained and not as competent" is the reason for doing this unscientifically, as it would also mean they would most likely fail producing a cure after the operation. Thank you for covering the whole series! I enjjoyed seeing some of your reactions beyond the medical content this time, like the emotional subjects and desicion making of the characters, which is such a big part of the show. It was a blast seeing you watch this :)

[@wtimmins]

I don't know if it would suit the format for your channel, but the scifi series The Expanse has a lot of interesting elements. It's scifi, the writing is amazing, the science is generally very realistic (with some very specific exceptions). They have some rather advanced medical technology, and there are issues like people being raised in microgravity, lack of oxygen, and so on. To be fair, it's also a fairly long series. Action packed, but I'm not sure if the elements related to medicine come up often enough to give you room to work with.

[@UltimaTheSeraph]

I love your reaction especially in understanding that while sci-fi movies/shows try to apply as much realism as it could, they are still fiction and some things are just cannot be realistic (or at least not yet). One example is Interstellar, the movie was built around real science and even involved real renowned scientist Kip Thorne, but in the end, it is still science fiction, so some parts are just speculation or pure fiction.

[@ChocolatierRob]

I'd like to add to the list of people wanting you to look at the game theorist episode on Ellie's immunity (using information from the games). It offers a different and in depth explanation for what exactly is going on there and as it is based on the games there is more source material to examine than the abbreviated version in the series.

[@OGSinisterPotato]

THIS is the reaction episode I've been waiting for. Brilliant work man.

[@danielscott4349]

Anytime anyone talks about a symbiotic relationship my mind always jumps to Venom (of course as an adult I have to push that aside to continue to act like an adult) so I am very VERY happy that you just straight up bought Venom into this, thank you.

[@Allerka]

One of the nurses in the surgical scene is played by Laura Bailey, the nurse in the middle between the doctor and the other nurse. She voiced/portrayed a character named Abby who has a very big part in The Last of Us 2 game and will (likely) be a part of the next season. Good review as always.

[@Nightraven26]

Just a correction, they aren’t nurses. They are an anesthesiologist and a anesthesia technician. I find it weird that a scrub nurse is missing from the scene, usually the minimum for a major surgery is 5 people - head surgeon, assisting surgeon, scrub nurse, anesthesiologist, anesthesia technician.

[@MidgarMerc]

Marlene is also played by the same actress who played her in the game and Neil Druckmann the director olalso directed some episodes. This really is one of the best video game adaptations both in content and in respect for the source material.

[@G1Transformed]

@Dr Hope's Sick Notes, 13:41 If I remember correctly, this is exactly the game did--I recall a CT scan showing a trail of fungus growing from her bite up her spine to the brain. Ellie's infection and the description given in this series and game are a bit different. The series builds on the little the game gives, so I guess it isn't really different--the game gives more room to gamers' imaginations. We never knew what happened to Ellie's mom, so we had no idea that Ellie's immunity was due to her mother being bit while pregnant. I personally don't like this, as it feels like it was ripped right from Marvel Comic's Blade character and anyone who's watched his movie knows what I'm talking about as it is the opening act of that 25 year old movie. I preferred the uniqueness that was presented in Ellie. I thought she was another Henrietta Lacks type person. 13:54 Maybe this hospital doesn't have all the things necessary to do what needs to be done to keep Ellie alive and healthy at the same time? They only have one doctor and two nurses. And what about this Doctor and his knowledge. He doesn't look all that old, though it is hard to see him through his surgical mask, but he clearly isn't as old as the doctor we saw in Kansas. I don't know about you, but I don't think the doctor we see would have been old enough to go to medical school 20 years ago. I could be wrong, but I guess we'll see. Anyway, my point is, this doctor probably became a doctor after the world fell apart, so his knowledge/experience might be limited. 16:52 We've seen as much to suggest that. Ellie at the end of the journey isn't the same one we met at the beginning, and neither is Joel--Ellie tells Joel not to blame her for Tess' death just before they set out for Bill and Frank's and this episode show's Ellie blaming herself for Riley, Tess, Sam and Henry's deaths. That said we just saw what Ellie did when someone was going to do something to her without her consent, and isn't that what's happening here? Right or wrong, at least Joel wanted Ellie's consent to have a say in what was going to happen to her body. Marlene and her doctor didn't tell Ellie what they were going to do, probably because they were afraid that she'd tell them to go f' themselves--that's the Ellie Marlene knew after all. I see a parallel between Marlene and the Fireflies with David and his flock, they even have similar sounding mottos: When you're lost in the darkness, look for the light; when we are in need, he shall provide. You mix and match them and come to a similar meaning too. Both David and Marlene come across as good people, trying to help others, and we learn at the end of both of their stories that they aren't who they say they are and that they were both willing to do whatever was needed to get what they wanted. Wasn't last week's episode an allegory for this one? They removed Ellie from the story and put everything on Joel's lap. Joel did some bad things to, some of which for selfish reasons, sure, but at the end of the day, he did what he did to protect Ellie from those who wished her harm. I thought Ellie suffered survivor's guilt and for that reason he created a lie--a bad that anyone could see through. He knew Ellie would want to do what Marlene wanted to do, but he also didn't want Ellie to go into such a thing with the amount of guilt weighing her down. He wanted to kill the idea of a cure and Ellie being the key to that cure. With that out of her head, she'd have no choice but to move on with her life, which is what he wanted. Wrong or not, Joel's gift allows Ellie an opportunity to give herself to science in the future after experiencing a somewhat real life and with an informed opinion. Ellie was pretty innocent when she left Boston and still very much so before they reached Kansas. She was oblivious to the machinations of people, what people out in the wild would be willing to do. Joel made it pretty clear that the Infected were the least of their worries out in the woods, and that it was PEOPLE that they need to fear. She of course got to see that horror with Kathleen and David, sure, but she still hasn't seen the world that Joel has seen. Joel gave up on the world, but it looks like he's started to believe in it a little at the end here, thanks to Ellie. How does she feel, though? Has Joel's lie and his actions killed hers? Season 2 is going to be wild. I can't wait...but I guess we all have to =P Thank you so much for your thoughts and medical breakdown m(_ _)m

[@Starbase203]

And the Actress for Marleen, was the original Actress from the Game 😊

[@wtimmins]

I've enjoyed the scientific basis for this show. A lot of folks were really taken aback by the initial episode and explaining how fungus can take over hosts. It's so realistic! Of course... kinda. Fungus doesn't grow NEARLY this fast, it does what it does in insects because it's evolved to manipulate a much more simple organism over probably millions of years, and even then it just guides the insect to go somewhere and passively infect others. Also, we DO have a bunch of treatments for fungal infections. That SAID, it's a much more solid base to draw into fantasy than a lot of zombie stories even begin to bother with, and it makes for a tantalizing narrative. This episode also has a few... frowny bits. But it also helps that while I might wonder about the logic the Firefly doctor is using, there's a lot of justification wiggle room in that everyone there has been in an apocalypse for 20 years, is up against the ropes, desperate and hoping fervently for solutions. So... maybe the doctor IS full of it and his ideas aren't actually tenable. That's a plausible scenario...

[@stephaniezimbalist3757]

I am new to your channel and have just watched your reaction to this show on my TV but had to logon to my phone to leave a comment. 1. I can’t believe you denied us your reaction to Joel calling Ellie Babygirl in the previous episode. Very cruel. 2. Congratulations, on catching me completely off guard with your response to the birth. “There’s Ellie, fresh out the oven.” You legit made me spit my Earl Grey all over my kitchen counter. I don’t know why but that comment is like a boomerang. It keeps returning to my mind and making me laugh. Thanks Doc.

[@historydragonsandmagic]

The moral quandary in this episode really threw me for a loop. I didn’t see it coming at all. I have lupus and I don’t think I would die so everyone else could get a cure but then again I was enrolled in experimental chemo for it as a teenager without my consent and they still do use that chemo and it did save my life but it was also the most horrible experience ever. Idk.

[@Depep4729]

Excellent video as always, love your content man. Hope you're keeping well given the current NHS chaos .Please do more scrubs episodes those are always great!!!!!!!

[@DrHopeSickNotes]

Yeh good shout!

[@ripflex2167]

Fungiu don't like other different fungus, so yea it grew a symbiotic relationship with her immune system and it kills the other cordyceps that may invade.

[@xpasteyfacex9390]

Thank You for the insight on this series. From someone who’s played the game way too many times and loved the hbo adaptation, I’ve really enjoyed your perspective. See you next season hopefully!

[@Lucubeatza]

this is the first time I'm running into your channel. I LOVED this! Can't wait for you to do the same with Season 2. Awesome!

[@ZoeyTG]

I work as a histology tech. I know how important it is to even have the right doctor with the right expertise for unique situations like this and all the support staff required to run appropriate testing. The only thing I could think where reasons they went straight to killing Ellie in a procedure beside what Dr. Hope said. Is they simply didn't have the right people to run any of the tests required. Even if, say between what medical people they did have available they knew what kinds of tests they might need. They'd still need the myriad of equipment, reagents and litmus tests in order to run them with any confidence. Some of the equipment is highly specialized and rare. Requiring extensive ongoing maintenance. I have machines if it looses power for more than 24 hours I have to run maintenance checks on. Even with all that said. It seems to me even lacking the right support. You have time. You only have one immune patient that anyone is aware of. They had no way of knowing if the benefit Ellie got would be lost if she died. Any process they use to preserve her brain long term still destroys or interfere with natural biochemical interactions in her body. Even then, even in the most ideal chemical preservation, over time the tissue still degrades and looses its efficacy over time even if it is slowed down. It still seems to me, to get the best possible hope of success for a vaccine. You'd want Ellie as alive for as long as possible. Bringing Joel for moral and social support. In the end, I think, it was a bad decision made by people who were desperate and not thinking things through.

[@jarent2652]

Marlene should have had you tag along to explain everything to joel. Proper communication could have avoided all this

[@Nightraven26]

15:30 she is probably paralysed with neuromuscular blockers, it was seconds before intubation, so she can’t breathe for at least 20-30 minutes on her own, taking her like that would definitely kill her

[@briankingakaspud2546]

The lore of the show states that you have to be exposed to a certain amount of cotecepts to get infected. So stand to reason she cut the cord fast enough to where Ellie was exposed to such a small amount her immune system was able to build an immunity. Just my own speculation i could be wrong

[@gnaius]

Regarding the question of passing immunity to Ellie, it's possible that she received the right amount of dosage that she didn't turn; but her immune system grew with it? Because in an earlier episode they made it sound like people didn't immediately turn when they ate the flour that contained cordyceps. Instead, it was repeated exposure that eventually made people turn?

[@nimbrascorner]

I´ve been living with GAD and manic episodes for over 20 years now. I thought I´ve learned the signs and could avoid hypomania. Depressions hits like clockwork every autumn and they ease up in the spring. (I live in Sweden, where the dark winter really is dark for a long time.) When trauma hits, you don´t know what you will get. My dad passed in January last year, which made my depression keep going. At my birthday in early august, my brain started to understand how badly ill my mum was. The week before my dad passed my mother had an operation to remove a tumor do to Pancreatic cancer. Normally I know what that cancer means. In August I finally understood that I would become an orphan soon. When my mother passed in the end of October I went into a manic state. When I woke up from that episode, I was standing in the snow on my knees having and fullblown panicattack, it was around 11pm February 18th and I could finally see where I needed to focus. On my grief. What I´m tryin to say is that even when you think you have everything under control, sometimes you really haven´t. All this trauma has made me take control over all kinds of trauma I´ve been through. I`m no longer trying to hide the younger me that has been needing to talk for years. I think my parents saved my life one more time.

[@cherrypi_b]

Thanks for being on here, hope you will do more stuff, always enjoyable! I liked your live insight in your work/shifts during the pandemic very much, especially your talks with other colleagues (how's Sonia, btw?). Maybe you can do something like this in the future again. Minus pandemic, of course :) I also loved your reaction to the first episode of ER, my one and only favourite medical show. Would love to see you react to more of that. Have a nice Sunday!

[@Rosiepedia]

Part of the issue is the apocalypse of it all, the doctor involved in extracting the fungus isn’t a brain surgeon or anyone really trained in trying to create a therapeutic as you said. Limited knowledge = limited options.

[@1A4atheist]

One of the nurses plays a major character in the second game. Edit: I see people have already pointed that out. Anyway good vid.

[@fnvfan0145]

Probably just went for the dramatic opening... Ellie's carrier status(or at least I think that's the term) isn't explored much in the source material. Perhaps the biomass of an infant rendered the fungus relatively harmless outside of growing into the brain(could also be the source of Ellie's anger problem).

[@AzderielBane]

One thing worth mentioning is what was the potential of them being able to actually create the cure? If there was only a 1% chance of them being able to create it then I'm not so sure Ellie would be quite so willing. It sounded to me like it was a shot in the dark in which case I think Joel was right to rescue her.

[@Davidcross0121]

Can't say how long I've waited for this video

[@rodvincetolosa9386]

They really should have gotten Ellie's consent, which she definitely would have given btw. And let Joel and Ellie have a talk. That would've been best case scenario. But doesn't really make for great TV.

[@wesleycolvin7158]

But then there's the risk that she'd say no.

[@rodvincetolosa9386]

@@wesleycolvin7158 Sure but then they could do the strong arm tactic if she does. But pretty sure she'd agree.

[@Сайтамен]

@@wesleycolvin7158 Either they care about morals, or they don't. If they don't, they should have just killed Joel.

[@phoenixrising8231]

​@@rodvincetolosa9386 not with Joel around.

[@niekgroenewold1156]

Thank you for covering the series, it was very informative and interesting. Another show that could be interisting is Barry, it has a lot of physical and mental health related things that could be covered.

[@Guitar1nHand]

Marlene is also played by the same actress from the game. And the guy who got decapitated by the bloater played Tommy.

[@ahammersen1323]

Thank you! Always enjoyed your work. Also thank you for touching on informed consent. Do you think you could do a trauma discussion about John Wick 2 and his armored suit. Because the physical toll even with armor must be immense.

[@TerryYelmene]

Excellent commentary and information shared here. I truly appreciate all of it... BUT for me... the best comment clearly was - "Joel... he mad!"

[@onkylonky7719]

You should cover the show Yellowjackets! Excellent show and a lot of medical stuff you could break down. Great work!

[@Laurel_Ellenstreet]

Agree! I needed a fresh, upbeat, little palette cleanser after this show and YJ is it (hehehehe). I don't know if shipping established couples is allowed but I'm shipping Shauna and Jeff to keep strengthening their marriage! They've done a great job of learning to communicate, take accountability, and re-commit to having each other's backs! Hopefully they'll be OK (not necessarily legally).