Crawler Canyon Presents: Shock Talk

[@jayleeson8517]

Excellent information there Mr Canyon. Can you now do a follow up video on how to recognise what way a shock needs to be tuned in relation to what you are observing as the car reacts with the environment

[@TheOtherSock-728]

^^^^THIS!!

[@EddieDesigned]

I'm pleased to say that after 2 1/2yrs of leaky axial scx10iii shocks, between your recommendation of tru-blu and the modification i made to the seal packs, i am now 3 months leak free! I really do enjoy these tech talks, so much info to soak up and lots of tips you won't find elsewhere :)

[@watch-box]

I made the mistake of trying the desert lizards out on one of my cars… …I say mistake, because now I have to change all of them. They look great, perform fantastically, and you get more tunabillity in the box than you need!

[@themountain59]

But some tend to leak after a while like mfs😉

[@danweiss1371]

On my desert lizard on the special little ball cup I use a very small piece of fuel tubing in between the flat head screw and the shock. This allows my shock to move more freely. But still keeps it retained when running it upside down. Try it you might like it. Lol, keep up the useful information!!! look forward to your daily videos

[@CrawlerCanyon]

I've gone to using the same little o-rings that I run on bodymounts to give the shock that wiggle room when double-sheared. Fuel tubing is pretty OG, most if not all of the 8ight shocks on my go-fast rigs use silicone fuel tubing as shock bushings.

[@danweiss1371]

@@CrawlerCanyon I figured you were there. But sharing is what I love about this community of RC enthusiast.

[@Br0rB]

Writing this about five minutes into the video, I have to say, perfect timing. I just started my LCG build today, and the one thing I really still need to learn more about, is shock setups, and knowing this channel, I reckon I'll know way more once I have watched this. :)

[@dave-iq3dq]

The Element shocks use the same size o-ring as the Associated 1/10 racing vehicles so you can run factory team x-rings. And as always use some green slime.

[@derrickhays3627]

Thank you for this I was wondering how to "damp and spring" a shock for best performance but watching this I now get there are too many variables for a "white paper" on shock set ups, you have to tinker to fit your rig/terrain and desired effect. Never cease to learn something from you thanks!

[@Doug_Morgan]

Your tip about factory take off parts at Jennys RC was very helpful. I have been looking to replace my Axial CJ7 100mm shocks with some 90mm shocks. The stock shocks are too tall, under damped and under sprung. It wallows around like a drunk and the long shocks make a top heavy truck even worse. I wanted to get GTS shocks as I have never had one leak whereas all the Axial ones I have had leak. Downside is cost but Jennys had a set of six 90mm shocks off the TRX6 Mercedes for only 53 bucks. They come with the correct pistons and springs I need. As a bonus I get 2 spare shocks as it is a set of 6 shocks. Thank you very much for the tip. 😎

[@Andy_Yates]

This is pure gold. Not only does this help me when I go to service my crawler and buggy shocks, seeing how you do the bladder shocks will help me when I need to do my drift and touring car as they are bladder. On my Yokomo big bores, I did the slide the bladder from the side thing so I don't trap air. The bladders were translucent so any large-ish bubble was visible. It looks like compressing the piston a little bit created enough suction to hold the bladder in place. I've seen the race folks use those vacuum pumps for pulling the air out of their shocks. The fast guys tell me they can feel the difference.... I'm still a rookie so I'm happy when I'm not traction rolling or having bounce landing jumps. The finer details still escape me

[@fejwe]

This is exactly the video I needed. I’m now deep enough into RC to really want to understand it better. Springs and shock oils are pretty opaque to a newcomer, or at least this one.

[@rccr2424]

I swear to God your videos pop up exactly when I need them most

[@gmummy]

Nicely articulated, pun intended!

[@brianmorrison2846]

If anybody was wondering the ZOKU with a power wagon cab still out performs the SCXPRO, but it could be the driver. Currently testing tires amongst the 2. Tusk, deepwoods, fossils, and the too soft baja pro x I think I bought the wrong ones.

[@CrawlerCanyon]

Don't let the people of the internet know! There are many who still claim that the Phoenix is a trail truck.

[@proraptor4146]

Ive been running rtr element shocks and have no leaking problems. I like them a lot

[@CrawlerCanyon]

Element shocks are very good, because they had over 30 years of Associated making excellent shocks to build off of. I call the Element Factory Team shocks "the best shocks you shouldn't buy." They're great, but $90 a set is particularly outrageous, when they come on a kit that usually sells for $250. I also don't give Element credit for "making a crawler shock that doesn't leak, because again, that's an Associated shock, same as what came on B and T series for ages. In my top 5 favorite shocks for sure.

[@lastcreations8845]

Traxxas ultra shocks also :) limiting shocks using orings or fuel tubing, spring limiting on the other side of the piston takes weight off the tire. So less weight applied (unsprung) to rocks when at the limit/through travel of the limit spring. With hard limits oring or fuel tubing as soon as tire hits it is on main spring tension + full unsprung weight. just something to think about.

[@brianmorrison2846]

Currently running 5 out of 9, 1/10th rigs with D/L's. But the proline 1/24th oil shock is currently my favorite shock. I'm looking for 1/24th D/L's

[@VLevi89]

My only issue with desert lizards is the spring selection..... Everyone always says how aswesome that there are so many springs included, but I found most of them useless. It's soft/hard/stupid hard. I wish all of them would be on the softer side to give me some tuning options, but I only able to ran the softest ones. To be fair when it comes to crawling only, it performed really well, but I didn't liked the way it moved on the trail. Tried different oils but I just coudn't get it right, and get tired of making a mess every single time, so they ended up in the drawer for now.... Good shocks but not for everyone.

[@CrawlerCanyon]

I agree, and would like to further lodge that complaint against most every other shock mfr. out there-- I have bins of springs 4lbs/in and heavier, with no idea what those things could possibly be useful on. Luckily with the DLs, picking a combination using the three lengths of soft springs are useful enough for most builds. And for sure, the Lizards need inappropriately light oil for trail use, I would think maybe 20wt, or re-drilled pistons.

[@trevorcourt1403]

Same I found that

[@sammiller8497]

​@@trevorcourt1403i know what you mean about the dl springs to soft to ,too hard , im going to try stretching the soft spring just a bit , that should stiffen them just a little

[@JC-Nor-Cal]

I do love to gain knowledge. Thank you for this video Mr.C.

[@GrimJerr]

Great video, if for nothing else but confirmation of methodology, never hurts to brush up on the basics.

[@dragonsland7]

Thank you so much for sharing. I have a full interior with action figure in my TRX-4 2021 Bronco. I only have brass portal covers up front for weight and some SSD wheels. Was curious what you'd recommend for the best performance on a heavy rig like mine.

[@CrawlerCanyon]

I would think that (sight unseen and weight unknown) you'd be alright with either the stock springs and a bit of preload, or at most one rate up in the front-- so maybe try the green band (TRA8040) all the way around. I would go up in oil weight to maybe 40wt, or maybe go to the alternate hi-flow pistons (TRA8261) and try 70-80wt. There's a tiny chance you'll need up a rate in the back to the blues-- like I said, I'm guessing on the weight.

[@just_inolredneck8319]

Priceys custom shocks r the best hands down! No leak and u can get them anyway u want.. length and droop.. the whole 9 yards. I run them on all 10 rigs I have.

[@robertvukonich5003]

Traxxas slash front shocks with crawler spring cup and spring works super good. The spring clears the body. Running 50w on scx 10 3

[@CrawlerCanyon]

Ultras are super-economy Big Bores, essentially. I never had a problem with Ultras leaking, I just had a problem with blowing the caps off on rough landings. Shouldn't be a problem on crawlers.

[@edwestbrook989]

Great info! Thanks for this!

[@Cjmcoolem]

Is it bad that I run 90wt oil on a 1/8 12 pounds crawler? Or what do you recommend

[@CrawlerCanyon]

There is no golden rule to oil weight. Some shocks in "stock" form will like lightweight oils, some require heavier. If you get really into shock tuning (drilling out pistons) you can tailor them to use whatever oil you'd like. If the rig is performing in a way that's favorable to you, then 90wt is perfectly fine. I personally try not to run anything lighter than 40wt (516cst) because the thinner the oil, the faster it's gonna leak out.

[@Br0rB]

I have some 5wt shock oil, that I bought for some reason. It's for an HPI Baja, I believe. Much like an American beer, it's f****** close to water.

[@morercthanclassy1543]

The shafts between the scx10ii and capra shocks interchange, desert lizard seal wok on the capra shock

[@CrawlerCanyon]

You can also put TRX-4 GTS shafts in Element shocks. Which is fun, because Element calls theirs 3x30, Traxxas calls theirs 3x47, and they're the same length. Now the DL seals in Capra-- THAT is good stuff, which I will be trying posthaste. Not having to rebuild Axial shocks every few months sounds like a dream.

[@morercthanclassy1543]

@@CrawlerCanyon the scx10ii shock shafts are shoter than the vapra, easy way to lower the capra by 4 to 5 mm

[@brianmorrison2846]

The new SCXpro shocks are working fantastic. No leaks so far

[@brianmorrison2846]

The PRO sidehill ability is best in my fleet. I don't even notice the straight axle until I expect it to roll out on a steep hill climb then I'm like oh yeah. Then I run across the hill. LOL

[@sprather84]

OK, I just ordered the 96 mm draft tech, soft front and rear for my VR build. I’m pretty sure that’s what you suggested. I was just listening to it on the live what wieght oil do u suggest front and rear. I’m gonna be running the heavy brass from Amazon, front and rear and the stance body so as little sprung weight as possible

[@CrawlerCanyon]

300cst/27.5wt, whatever you have in that range

[@sprather84]

@@CrawlerCanyon thank you so much. I really appreciate you always getting back to me which is why I support your channel. I’m here in California as well and going to proline by the fire so I’m hoping I get a chance to come out to the canyon.

[@MrGuitarguyadam]

Stock springs on my revo with the long travel “progressive” pivots and it’s perfect. With that being said… it uses Traxxas’s GTR series shocks which are solid, I currently have 60w oil in them and it’s perfect.

[@WreckitRalphie]

Thanks for this. I’m building a new comp truck so I can definitely use this shocking knowledge 😂

[@Gibsonlife573]

Thank you😊

[@TheAmericanUhate]

Check out traxxas part number TRA5461 Variable damping kit. I used them in my UDR to have stiffer up travel & faster down travel. Basically makes them a 2 hole piston on compression and a 4 hole piston on rebound. Not needed for crawlers, but is good on go fast vehicles.

[@CrawlerCanyon]

RPM used to do this as well. I still have some of the split pistons somewhere. I remember another one from back the day that used the "flappies" like the Traxxas setup. I don't miss the days of drilling out piston holes to fine tune the rebound.

[@FeralRC]

I just learned a crap ton. Thanks!

[@Js_junkyard]

I love the traxxas big bores I just can’t stand the circlip at the bottom. I bought a set of 8 and started removing stuff to grease the orings…..what a mistake that was. I can’t get the clips back in.

[@CrawlerCanyon]

Channellock 926.

[@Js_junkyard]

@@CrawlerCanyon I have those but still can’t get the clips in. User error no doubt

[@tiborbeetles1882]

Have you tried tuning the MST shocks that come on the Jimny? I have both the plastic ones and the alloy versions that come on the CFX-WS. The latter are crazy light so I think need thicker oil but the MST plastic CMX/CFX ones I find a bit over damped so may need thinner oil? Btw the MST shocks have proved excellent at not leaking oil, but I did make them with green slime.

[@CrawlerCanyon]

The stock shocks reacted well to that ubiquitous 300cst. The TC70 Option Shocks from MST were diff oil hungry, and are running filled with 5000cst. Slow leakers, which is nice.

[@vb9300]

Silly question about the desert lizards...My lcg trx4 sits decent on the gts 90mm...low enough for me. Now if I were to upgrade to the desert lizards..say to the 100s or 110s...and if I were to step them up as you do, would I base my length on the compressed length to keep same ride height? If you go to YR site, they give a normal, compressed and extended measurement. Figured Id ask the master of RC

[@CrawlerCanyon]

Yes, off of the compressed length. You don't want to gain downtravel at the expense of uptravel, or worse, ride height. If the collapsed shock is longer than what you have now, you're raising your CGH by that amount, and nobody wants that.

[@vb9300]

@@CrawlerCanyon Thank you sir, kinda figured that...thought id check to make sure

[@arthopfer]

Traxxas makes a nice shock oil kit that comes on a turntable.

[@tonygregg6957]

Just pulled the trigger on some Dravtechs to see what the fuss is all about. Having said that I have no big problems with the FT, S8Es and desert lizards I have. I have wondered about the Injora Mountain shocks that look like desert lizard copies, they are super cheap and most injora stuff seems reasonable.

[@CrawlerCanyon]

Uh oh. Be careful now. Once you go Dravtech, it's hard to consider buying anything else. There are only two sets here, because DLux Fab is perpetually out of any color I want. But I am up to 4 or 5 sets of 2660s. Which are close.

[@CasperRc81]

I’ve definitely bent a shaft hard crash this. And yeah they leak slower tho

[@TheOtherSock-728]

I have 2 sets of Desert Lizards -90mm and 100mm. The 90s extend to 100mm (with droop setup - springs both AND below piston), and the 100s extend to 110mm (also with droop setup). Is this how they all are? 10mm longer than spec'd on the box?

[@ScimPeep]

Any thoughts about the Traxxas TRX4760 (series of L, XL and M too). They look very similar, yet do not have big bore in the name. Diameter of piston, rod, cylinder all look the same on pictures. Is PTFE coated, but doesn't have anodized in the name.... is quite a bit cheaper though 2/3rds of the 2660 price...

[@CrawlerCanyon]

They were (are?) a cheaper alternative to the Big Bore. Same PTFE coating, but smaller bore and no nitrided shafts. My guess is that the ones you're seeing online are NOS, as the PN# no longer brings a result in a search at Traxxas. So I'm pretty sure they're discontinued. Have never seen one in the wild, I don't think many people knew they existed. And they're about $3 a pair cheaper here. So not much motivation.

[@snörre23]

I wonder why the 2660s do not have any information available, not even the lenght. And don't offer a spring set. Not everybody has a box of springs, just wants to buy a set of shocks ready to install. I will go with Desert Lizards like you suggested. (For the leaky shocks on my Rhino. That is still in the air somewhere).

[@CrawlerCanyon]

The 2660 predates crawlers by so long, I'm not surprised there's little info on them. 2660s are 85mm, 2661 are 95mm, and 2662 are 105mm.

[@fromfin90]

i use a 70mm in my MST CFX scale comp build :D but its a injora special shock and its horrible haha

[@CrawlerCanyon]

I ordered some 70mm Amazon shocks and the reviews were to be trusted. Awful. We have no good options for 70mm so far as I can tell. I built custom front and rear towers to fit 80s on the FMS Atlas just so it could have functional shocks.

[@joshuaspruce9209]

I got up this morning and decided to put some 90 mm desert lizards on my FMS jeep and a set of canyon trails boy I got to find a driver for him.

[@stevennaranjo9713]

So I don't know if you have seen them on Amazon? But they are selling some trx4 clone shocks you might want to test . Or maybe you already have . Love your content.

[@Joshperk]

I’m waiting to run my desert lizards upside down on my Phoenix but I can’t with the pivot ball included. It’s not wide enough and the one on the stock shock won’t fit in the hole on the lizards. Is there a solution?

[@CrawlerCanyon]

There's always the old tried and true (and was in another comment somewhere) fuel tubing. Either use it as a bushing/spacer, or just cut a piece the width of the opening on the axle and use it as the shock pivot itself.

[@louisloudogtrottier3310]

You are the AvE of RC's

[@neildaniels5443]

I av Desert lizard on my trail rig , they r setup exactly da same as u built it, my build in process has Dlux ultra short 80mm, BTW ill send in a pic when its finished, just need ya email bruv 👍 its my first custom flat rail build , no kit parts on dis boy, can't wait to get it finished, jus need to wait fa da doe to finish.

[@CrawlerCanyon]

Email is on the about page, and also right here, crawler canyon at gmail dot com.

[@neildaniels5443]

@@CrawlerCanyon cheers m8

[@lastcreations8845]

PERFECT. 20 mins in video so far, but #2660 = 3.5" #2661 = 3.75" #2662 = 4" . plastic axial is 10plus yrs old design, axial makes a icon (alum body) same look as plastic, capra ish. BORE size on element and the SE ? just looking on your bench does the vanquish cap fit the GTS (bleeder LOL) ?

[@CrawlerCanyon]

Yeah, you got it-- 90, 95, and 100. I can never remember because I only ever use 2660s. Though ICFTW19 could maybe use some hundreds...

[@lastcreations8845]

@@CrawlerCanyon yeah mount lengths are like 84, 94, 101-102 so little under 3.5" on the 2660

[@jeffmuller9020]

Fantastic Stuff!

[@xXDiVeRSeCHaoSXx]

Do I just need to buy the element se short parts on amain to converter?

[@CrawlerCanyon]

The SE shock parts (ASC42311) and soft shock spring set (ASC42313) are the easiest way to do it.

[@jimbocreationsbu8203]

you can get a kit to make the trx4 take a losi mini t - at IN THE WORKS RC

[@CrawlerCanyon]

I'm sure it works fine, but I still don't like 3D printed in a lot of places. Well, I don't really like it much anywhere, including on shocks. Now I'm wondering if I can't make that part myself.

[@jimbocreationsbu8203]

@@CrawlerCanyon probably make it out of delrin rod ?

[@boosieboo497]

Nothing leaks more than the new Ottsix shocks. And they’re not cheap. Maybe I got defective product. Bc 2 don’t leak and 2 will empty the oil in 3 hours. Took apart several time a and still bad. Can’t even use them

[@nandafernando6779]

Please review the SO96

[@Team_ReVolt]

Really educational vid, thx!

[@sgtcrusher66]

great video !!!!!

[@nicholasstephey8475]

Great content

[@themountain59]

Actually its not so complicated...spring rate is defined by the car weight, accordingly you chose the oil weight. There are people who don't use oil in the rear at all(like the guy from Gspeed) ...its try and error for what you want the car to do 😉

[@CrawlerCanyon]

Not in crawlers. For every guy not using oil there are five not running spring cups or springs at all. I consider that approach to full droop a thing I call "not trying," but to each their own. As I said, if you're ripping off of jumps the relationship between the oil weight and the spring rate is critical. I've got shocks running the softest springs I can find (0.4lbs/in) with 80wt oil in them.

[@themountain59]

@@CrawlerCanyon completely agree but the spring is determined by car weight...no way around that Full droop seemed to me always like a crutch anyway

[@Br0rB]

So, I built my Injora LCG build today, and it's pretty much done, just need a receiver and to hook everything up, and to cut and paint the body. I used the tips for the DL shocks from this video, and they feel amazing. The flex is next level (at least compared to what I've done before), at about 14cm in the rear. May be a bit much, but I'll try it out. I went from a box of parts to a roller in a day, which I'm pretty pleased with. It's rocking a lot of brass on the front axle, and a bit of overdrive, a Rhino ESC and 9imod outrunner, a 9imod servo, Proline (yay) Predator Super Swampers on some heavy-ish Injora (300g each in the front and 250g each in the rear) wheels with my own 3D printed inserts in the front, and Proline Dual Stage in the rear. I also used your tips to doing bladder shocks, as that's what comes on the RGT I took the DL shocks off of, and put the stock shocks back on. I had filled those the wrong way previously, and wasn't super happy with them, but after doing it the right (your) way, they feel amazing too. They have never leaked, and they have a nice, soft-ish spring. The holes in the pistons are quite large, so I filled them with some 700CST oil, which seems to be a good choice. If you haven't checked those shocks out, you probably should. They came on the RGT EX86100 Pro.

[@CrawlerCanyon]

For whatever reason, RGT is pretty much non-existent here. Only place to order it is from AliExpress or similar far-east vendor. Hell, Gmade barely exists here.

[@Br0rB]

@@CrawlerCanyonRGT and FTX are the same, and I believe some people have found FTX over there, though I think it's more of a UK thing. We also get FTX here in Norway, but I got my rgt on sale for like 200 bucks on banggood last year, which is less than half price compared to here. I know Asiatees has rigs and parts, as I have bought some spares there. 😊

[@rclifegu3574]

What about pitbull kronik shocks $200 a set super smooth

[@CrawlerCanyon]

I can pretty much guarantee that the Kroniks exist beyond the point of diminishing returns, along with shocks like the Team Brood (Kyosho) Velvets. Confirmation bias is gonna make your brain go, "these are amazing!" but they are not functionally any different from shocks that are a quarter the price. I can put together 3 full sets (12 shocks WITH tuning spring assortments) of 2660s for the same price as a set of 4 Kroniks. Back in the days we called products like that "sponsorship stuff."

[@KjetilAakvikGogstad]

7.5WT is way too heavy. I have some HPI Baja oil here, and it's 5WT, which is almost like water. Have yet to use it in something.

[@CrawlerCanyon]

I make an effort to not use anything under 40wt (516cst.) The heavier the better-- well, to a point. I don't like putting diff fluid in off-brand shocks either. But most every shock taking 300cst out of the box is just annoying.

[@KjetilAakvikGogstad]

@@CrawlerCanyon I have found 450 works well in most of my shocks, on most rigs. I'll just adjust using pistons. :D I just built a set of 115mm DL shocks, which it has been a while since I did last, so I had to re-watch your video to get them right. Went 450 in the rear, 350 in the front. All soft springs in full droop. Going on one of those Injora/Austra Gmade R1 clones, with some Capra axles. We'll see how it goes. Trying to figure out gearbox and links atm.

[@thindigital]

My vanquish shocks leaked straight away, factory built, disappointing considering the companies reputation.

[@CrawlerCanyon]

I've gotten the whole gamut-- one set doesn't leak at all, another set bled as if stabbed from the first filling. They need bigger holes in the pistons and ~80wt and then it's golden.

[@thindigital]

@@CrawlerCanyon I need to rebuild them or just get some more lizards and slap them on. For fellow listeners my top tip for tuning lizards is to wind the droop spring onto (or off) the shock shaft, don't mess about taking the piston head off. If you mount them upside down you can even change springs with the shock body still attached to the rig, the oil just stays put. Harbour freight picks are very handy to fish out the suspension spring from the shock body.

[@themountain59]

@@thindigital dont get lizards...thats a bandaid😎 get some traxxas big bore and you are set 👍

[@thindigital]

@@themountain59 I've never understood the hate for lizards, but you do you mate.

[@themountain59]

@@thindigital I don't "hate" them...they are ok thats it...and they look weird. Some of them tend to be leaky.

[@HoldenMcGroin]

You in NJ?

[@CrawlerCanyon]

All the way on the other side. About 60 miles from the Pacific Ocean.

[@nycr6biker796]

Full bump. Not full droop. Full droop is a jacked up suspension.

[@CrawlerCanyon]

Not how we look at it. Droop is the total amount of suspension travel below ride height-- so only downtravel. A "full droop" setup is sitting at the uptravel (compressed) limit of the shocks, so the dampers are "bottomed out" when the rig is sitting neutrally. I don't think anyone is running a crawler with the shocks at or near full extension.

[@jackhando5465]

Awe man my brain hurts..way too much information at once. Definitely requires a re-visit.

[@JC-Nor-Cal]

Is that the head of President Roosevelt?

[@JC-Nor-Cal]

And what do you use the Liberty clock oil for that's next to Roosevelt?

[@CrawlerCanyon]

Liberty is genius in that they sell the same oil in the same bottle, but list it for wall clocks, or grandfather clocks, or skate bearings (the gun oil does appear to be different.) I use it for all bearings, and it's excellent. That 4oz bottle will likely last forever.

[@JC-Nor-Cal]

Not forever. Lol. My bottle is 2/3 gone. Iv done a lot of cucoo and mantle clock maintenance and repair. Bushings mostly.

[@CrawlerCanyon]

@@JC-Nor-Cal I have far fewer clocks to lubricate. I don;t think I've ever oiled the cuckoo clock in here. Or changed the batteries. So my bottle is 90% full.

[@RidePittsburgh247]

One Piece!!

[@NelaRc]

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