Epic Showdown: Boosted Civic Si Takes On Toyota MR-S | Driver Battles

If there’s one debate in the world of track cars that has gone on longer than any other, it’s whether you can go faster in a low-weight, low-horsepower or high-weight, high-horsepower car. In this episode of Driver Battles series, this debate spills over onto the track at Chuckwalla Valley Raceway, where John Cruz in his heavy, but powerful, 2008 Honda Civic Si face off against Tony Rodriguez in his light, but low-power, 2001 Toyota MR-S.
0:00 Intro at Chuckwalla Valley Raceway
1:36 John's Boosted Honda Civic Si Build Breakdown
2:36 Tony's Toyota MR-S Build Breakdown
3:24 Competitor feedback on Nitto NT01's
4:18 Driver Battles: Time Attack Rules and How To Compete
5:00 Time Attack Hot Lap
7:40 Impressions from the Track
8:43 Final Track Results
Let’s get a closer look at the cars facing off in this battle to see if either of them seems to have the upper hand. Starting with John Cruz, his 2008 Honda Civic Si puts out 327hp, but also weighs in at around 3000 lbs. To help get the fastest times around the track, he has added a Kraftwerks supercharger, Hondata Flash Pro, OS Giken Super Lock Differential, Godspeed coilovers, Voltex Type 2 wing and 275/35ZR18 front and 245/40ZR18 rear Nitto NT01 tires. Tony Rodriguez brought out his 2001 Toyota MR-S that may only make 200hp, but also only weighs 2000 lbs. His list of upgrades includes a Toyota 2ZZ-GE 1.8L swap, Monkeywrench cams, a PPE long tube header, a Gokey 2.5-inch exhaust, Annex CSP coilovers, Konig Dekagram wheels and 224/45ZR15 Nitto NT01 tires all around.
Not to give anything away, but this battle was so close, that neither side of the power to weight argument may be able to claim the upper hand. That said, if you’re a fan of racing like we are, it’s hard to be too disappointed when you see a battle that comes down to fractions of a second.
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[@JoeMcGuiganRacing]

Great to see the video released guys. So happy for my car to be part of this experience.

[@coldvaper]

How come you didn't drive?

[@JoeMcGuiganRacing]

@@coldvaper I didn’t apply for this series. My buddy Tony did and his silver MRS unfortunately died before this event happened, so I lent him my car as they were basically twins.

[@coldvaper]

@@JoeMcGuiganRacing Makes sense, can't wait for your next one!

[@DavidHaroJr]

Something interesting that could be part of the video is a drivers commentary on the lap. They can go into short details about how the car feels on certain corners with this tire or with track conditions,etc. Would be a neat addition to the already cinematic side by side of the laps.

[@lowtori]

Loved the mr-s/civic match up! Would love to see a "under $10k, $20k, $30k" etc. total cost challenge to make it more equal (and give us an idea of what we can build too!)

[@Clamp581]

Both really awesome cars, MRS looked like it had a cleaner lap but civic tire size and torque likely gave jt that extra edge

[@zzwk24]

Thank you! The dude is running 275s and the torque gives that straight line advantage. It would be interesting to see the lateral G's and speeds turn by turn though.

[@cornercarver636]

MRS ftw! Edit:Can’t believe the MRS was that close being down on power that much. Civic still had a better p:w than the MRS.

[@Contempt805]

“Basicly stock” LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO im 💀!

[@rumblebunz8081]

trying to be low key with the sandbagging 😂

[@IchiBeemo]

He’s referring to the block being stock. So no rebuild or forged internals. It’s a Honda thing.

[@turdferguson1021]

More MR-S plz

[@josiahbutler2254]

The top end for a k series is crazy, the k20s response is 🙌🏽

[@dephataznboi]

That civic is far from "pretty stock." The MRS is closer to being stock than the Civic & is the real winner to me for being super close in time while being over 100 horses down in comparison to the competition.

[@IchiBeemo]

In the Honda world, when we say “stock” we actually are referring to the motor being stock. So no forged internals, no rebuild, just a stock factory block.

[@popdatclutch3010]

I agree with this statement but definitely with the huge hp difference the MRS was gettin it

[@Overlord277]

These videos are always good! Hope to see it grow.

[@tijeansharpe566]

John looks disappointed with the time even though he won 😂

[@PsBuddha562]

Longer video, More driving footage, More driver input about their car would make an even better upload.

[@aznskrachmaztah]

needa get my Ka-T on here LOL

[@XxToNeeXx]

Basically stock. Just a supercharger and track suspension. Putting any type of force injection is far from stock.

[@firstwordcar]

Now give the mr2 a stock k24/20 and see what the lap times are 😂 Love both chassis so I’m glad to see they stacked up pretty close.

[@nickwagner2284]

Probably wouldn’t be much different. My k24 MRS makes barely more whp (203) and weighs a bit more than the 2zz.

[@firstwordcar]

@@nickwagner2284 K24 at least 50 more torque than a 2zz which does help with corner exit. I’d love to see a 2zz swapped Spyder vs a K24 swapped Spyder.

[@aaronvector4750]

Nah, just have the guy do 1 more lap and he'll squeeze out 7 tenths

[@Michael-uy4mr]

intake of 2zz has room for improvement

[@Fodaaaa420]

I've watched all of these and somehow missed this one before. Definitely one of the closest ones, three tenths is pretty tight! Would love the opportunity to give this a shot now that I've got my stroker S2000 dialed in 😁

[@Toyota4Life]

GOD I want one of those MR2 spyder…. Such unique and cool little car

[@TougeMonSter3]

Drivers Practice/Mods needed. Love both cars

[@Shabec2982]

Before hearing the times the MRS looked faster in the side by sides.

[@cxbra]

These cars sound SO GOOD! Im a 2ZZ-GE owner (all stock with a drop in K&N filter and custom intake ducting). 2ZZ's have that ANGRY growl mmm.

[@tonyvega1272]

Love to hear about car people from San Jose 💯

[@sv2697]

Basically stock civic my ass! It's a fully prep track car. The civic driver does looks like he is more familiar with the course and he does have the power advantage.

[@rumblebunz8081]

lol my thoughts exactly. when does a gutted civic weigh 3000lbs when the stock car weighs just under 2900lbs 😂 the civic driver is super sus. ahaha

[@n0tdavwrld]

I agree the power to weight ratio was the determination of the Civics win but the MRS pulled a good fight

[@mattvang3439]

MRS is the track weapon that everybody sleeps on.

[@vltruane]

@@mattvang3439In a way its good, it keeps prices low, but I think the secret is getting out, lol. I’m starting to see more of them at my local car meets.

[@Samuelamnuelgreeneggshamuel]

Glad to see Tony on this. We used to run a back road Miata group in the Bay area and Tony would be sweeping and kicking his tail out on the NB. As age progressed he focus mainly on track and saw him the last couple of time i was in thundrerhill.

[@JDM_FD]

Damn the almost stock fa5 won! Who would've guessed?! Amazing!

[@ClaytonYatescarenthusiast]

Sign me up! Ready to go c7 z06 a little aero and several wheel options to go with whatever size nt01 tires you want

[@fillername458]

Would have been more interesting to see if the Spyder had the 2AR-FE swap from Frankenstein pushing 270hp to the wheels with way more torque.

[@becomingabetterhuman.2994]

Please get that JDM foot work cam angle.

[@larkinflight]

make a list of fastest cars like top gear did, that would be awesome to compare it..

[@popdatclutch3010]

Listening to the difference in fr and ff throttle control is crazyyyy. Fr you can really gas it through corners

[@subiesnhomies7754]

Let’s go John!

[@esthertrue8665]

This shoot takes me back to the super street days

[@GAMRMNTS2]

Preciated balsa wood 🪵

[@Battle_Garage]

The Mrs is on ice haha maybe if it can find some more rear traction it can take the time. Great driving

[@FluxHitsBills]

Let’s go john!!

[@brunomanco7529]

Miatas and mrs look so cool. Small and rwd = fun at track

[@brianaggson1074]

That Spyder is so fucking sick🥵🥵🥵 it's a car I never thought anything of a few years ago and now all I see is pure potential!

[@maans9936]

You never see one of these at any meets at all. They're some dope kits for this all well, beautiful in the end

[@sepg5084]

Despite the power to weight, a front engine front wheel drive car winning against a mid engine rear drive car. The Honda driver is skilled.

[@johnmann7o2]

This track is for boosted cars, long sweeps and straights, also the desert heat.

[@mugensamurai]

What a world we live in now the miata is the last affordable japanese sports car and civics already come boosted stock.

[@BrainFuck10]

Miata is not the last one, there's still the BRZ/86

[@df_9655]

John’s my hero

[@fadedsincedayone]

Civic driver looked more composed than the mr s makes me think mr s had a little more in it.

[@kentbeitel9966]

Does the mrS have snap over steer? Like the previous generation. I love both of these! Throw a lotus supercharger on that 2zz!

[@Ben.Rankin]

I've had 2 aw11s and 1 sw20, I've never had snap oversteer. Its not as big of a problem as people have made it out to be. You just have to know how to drive the car.

[@raveracer02]

Snap over steer is more of a nsx problem than a mr2 problem, imo

[@ninjashidan]

The spyder doesn't have a snap over steer problem

[@samgome01]

They're more prone to lift off oversteer

[@re-vision_]

I have personally taken the L to the MRS driver.

[@sosbabe2804]

Mrs had no grip at all!!! We all know about power to weight. That MRS is badass but those tires were limiting it.

[@anthonykeuth3839]

John is my hero

[@cv7609]

Can yall do a rsx type s vs 7th gen celica gts??

[@dephataznboi]

Easy, DC5 wins every time.

[@frederickcook87]

Somehow and surprisingly the Honda seemed more stable through the turns

[@mickyo9223]

Heavier car and big tyre.

[@aaronvector4750]

big tires, fwd so the power is pulling the car so any throttle imput straightens it out. the MRS is mid engined and rwd, and has smaller tires so its gonna wanna spin more

[@husseinpoliphilo]

The build on the civic is so nice minus the coils haha whyyyyy Either way great cars and looks like fun. The Mrs is really nice too

[@husseinpoliphilo]

@Emerson Lee oh wow didn't know that just thought it was ironic given the other parts on the build

[@beerweather1566]

2zz is not 200hp wheel power. Not torquey either. Really nice MR-S. Aero is for real

[@DreEzed]

@@beerweather1566 huh?

[@beerweather1566]

@@DreEzed yep. Mr-S owner and Spyderchat guy. It’s always beer weather

[@repingers9777]

@Emerson Lee how are godspeed for daily driving / weekend warrior on a fa5

[@daddyromo3076]

I used to own a mr2

[@vizualmrs]

Basically stock. 😂😂😂 Bro is ALL CAP

[@kamikazu4392]

Winner? Make that car also 200hp and lets see whats a better car lol

[@brandonjan_]

mr-s?

[@hevertpacheco7870]

Mr-s needs a k swap for sure

[@erikw792]

No it really doesn't. The K swaps ruin the handling balance. If you're drag racing, fine but for TA weight and handling is everything. The 2zz can be tuned much higher than this example.

[@jordan.fa5592]

@@erikw792 K swap ruins handling? How? It's a fully aluminum block and head

[@erikw792]

@@jordan.fa5592 Mr. Spirit Taro said so himself. He's probably the most famous MR-S tuner. Look up Techno Pro Spirit Shop Tour here on KZbin.

[@jordan.fa5592]

@@erikw792 2zzge weight: 254 lbs, k20a2 weight, 275 lbs. Negligable. What is responsible for the supposed handling difference? Its not the height of the engine, because that is variable depending on the brand of motor mounts used.

[@strifu808]

@@jordan.fa5592 drivetrain is also heavier, this statement isn’t exactly from out of someone’s ass, it is from a tuning shop from Japan that deals with all these drivetrains 24/7. The difference is however negligible by our standards. For someone who circuits the cars everyday, there is.

[@victorpla29]

Here we ago to another shitty Edit