LADY RUSSELL’s “prejudices on the side of ancestry” | Analysis of CLASS in Jane Austen’s Persuasion

[@DrOctaviaCox]

If you enjoy the work I do, then you can support it here: www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_button_id=D8LSKGJP2NL4N Thank you very much indeed for watching my channel.

[@CelesteSeeker]

If you haven't already, I'd like to see you do a comparison of how the men in the novels talk about the attractiveness of the women. Captain Wentworth obviously found Anne attractive as a young woman but says he's so shocked by her appearance that he wouldn't have known her, and then at the end of the novel pronounces her more beautiful than ever. Seems all over the place and I just wondered if a close reading would help me make more sense of his wishy washy attitude, or if something in the novel suggests that she really did become more "pretty" again.

[@oliviaevans6486]

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[@oliviaevans6486]

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[@oliviaevans6486]

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[@cestmoi1294]

I think Austen more clearly demonstrates how dangerous 'snobbery' is with Lady Russell. Because Lady Russell is not laughably absurd, and has been able to 'guide' Anne (who we know as rational and moral), makes us think hard how we can all be negatively influenced by those we care about if we're not careful.

[@dorothywillis1]

Yes. We can all look at Sir Walter and think, "I would never be like that." But it might be possible to slip into becoming Lady Russell.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Absolutely - very well put.

[@chrystallapsomas2030]

​@@dorothywillis1 p pollone of those situations when only time will tell if it was the right decision but Anne says she would not have given the same advice.

[@dorothywillis1]

@@chrystallapsomas2030 The more I think about it the less I like Lady Russell. The best excuse I can make for her is she has no imagination. She just doesn't understand Anne's personality and how much breaking the engagement hurt Anne. But she should have observed the result and tried harder to get Anne back into the world where Anne might have met someone else. There is no indication that she really tried to get Anne to go with her to Bath or London or anywhere else. I think Lady Russell didn't like the engagement because she didn't like Captain (or whatever rank he was) Wentworth's easy manners and didn't like the idea of losing her influence over Anne.

[@ashleyclinton3485]

Emma acts this way to a lesser extent towards her friend Harriet who is persuaded not to marry the farmer Robert Martin. Luckily the damage is undone on a shorter timeline than in Persuasion. The difference of these timelines seems to lighten the severity of Emma’s offense while further damning Lady Russel in hers. I think Austen had a lot of compassion for those blinded by class/rank. We forget that even Darcy had this folly and was redeemed. Perhaps Emma is the Feminine version of Darcy’s character arch.

[@bebly9797]

I am more kind to the character: Lady Russel embodies Anne's mother, and reader knows that Austen's mothers, even with good intentions, behave in strange ways and they are use to matchmake the daughter to the the wrong guy. In the end Austen gives her a real happy ending: "She loved Anne better than she loved her own abilities; and when the awkwardness of the beginning was over, found little hardship in attaching herself as a mother to the man who was securing the happiness of her other child". Compare this quote to Lady Cathrine who after opposing to Elizabeth marrying Mr Darcy condescend to visit Pemberley "polluted". I think Austen is ambivalent till the end: how much Lady Russel's snobbery and old values have to do with the persuasion to refuse Wentworth? But thinking too bad about her it's the mistake Wentworth does: "But I too have been thinking over the past, and a question has suggested itself, whether there may not have been one person more my enemy even than that lady? My own self". In the end Lady Russel is capable of embracing change: "There was nothing less for Lady Russel to do, than to admit that she had been pretty conpletely wrong, and to take up a new set of opinions and of hopes". I think in her last novel, in the chaos of post war era, Austen is trying to figure out where is going her society: part of the gentry is decaying, but part of the old set is worth to save, if it opens to change. (Sorry for my english)

[@renatadiniz7858]

Love the way you put it! I too thought the analysis to be a bit rush (though not wrong at all). There is still growth for lady russel, and she was mistaken in many ways, but I also think she has the opennes to evolve

[@janetsmith8566]

Well stated.

[@reikun86]

Here Here. I think she honestly was moved by spirit and mettle of this new generation (Anne and Wentworth.) Speaking of Lady Catherine, I actually liked the 1940 version where she pretended to threaten Elizabeth as a test to gauge how much Elizabeth loved Darcy. (I think it's the only version where she's a secret ally.)

[@XmulifanX]

I would really like your opinion on Mrs Smith, because I am never sure how I am to feel about her actions (keeping her silence about Mr Elliot ...)

[@ESPNight004]

I agree. With Mrs. Smith's past, it seems we are getting a bit of a nod to the dark, dramatic Gothic storylines again, where an innocent young woman (she was dear friends with Anne in school, so we can infer that she was sweet and innocent at one point) is degraded by being drawn into a life of immorality through Mr. Elliot and her husband. Therefore, in the Gothic novel sense, she should come to a horrible end. Yet, we see a kind of... redemption, maybe, in her renewed friendship with Anne and her, finally, coming clean and revealing the whole story to Anne. In the end it is even suggested that she might have a relatively happier end in Wentworth being her champion in settling her late husband's estate. Yet, I'm still not sure she really did have a redemption. With her suffering and her determined cheerfulness in that suffering, we are inclined to be kind and give her credit. Enduring seemingly well through suffering is usually seen as a noble thing. Yet, in Mrs. Smith's words and actions, I still feel a resentment and even a pettiness, a littleness, about her. From the start, it seems all her motive in rekindling the friendship with Anne is selfishness and a little revenge on Mr. Elliot. Yet, when she sees Anne's true gentleness and that Anne has not been corrupted by Mr. Elliot, there is a softening about her towards her friend. She then admits to all and seems a little apologetic. Is that enough for a redemption? Is her continued friendship with Anne and Wentworth genuine? Is their goodness and integrity rubbing off an her, or is she still pursuing the friendship out of self reasons? I cannot come to a conclusion about her. Perhaps she is meant to be ambiguous, to show complexity of human character. Or, perhaps I'm just not reading and reasoning close enough. I would love to get Dr. Cox's thoughts on this!

[@Balthrop]

Yeah! Mrs. Smith, good one

[@panika4167]

Yes! I always feel a little suspicious about her; she is this upbeat, wonderful person, yet her main entertainment is gossiping about everyone with her nurse, and she encourages Anne to get involved with Mr. Elliot even though she knows his true self. But then she is again depicted as this great friend and good person. I have such mixed feelings about her and I wonder what were Austen's intentions with this character?

[@rosezingleman5007]

YES! What about the cheery “Mrs Smith”? I don’t want to be a snobby baronet and assume she’s of “low birth” but what, beyond a plot device, is she all about?

[@dorothywillis1]

Yes. I have always wondered if Mrs. Smith's section of the book might have been rewritten as the end was if Austen had lived longer.

[@janethompson9390]

Persuasion is my favorite Austen novel. I think Lady Russell's chief excellence is how fond she is of Anne, especially as her family is, well, not. Like Mrs Bennett, she is not unreasonable in her doubts that Captsin Wentworth might not live to support Anne as Lady Russell believes the daughter of a baronet ought to become accustomed to, but she was mistaken that Anne would have been unhappy, unless of course Wentworth had died in the war.

[@MissCaraMint]

I do think we underestimate the real danger of him dying leaving Anne potentially a penniless widdow. She would have been exactly where she was at the beginning of the novel, but with less money and with the probability of maybe a mouth to feed. I think it’s no mistake that we see an example of a poor widdow in the novel in Anne’s friend. That could be Anne if she had married Wentworth. Or certainly what a mother figure could worry would be the future of such a union.

[@bookmouse2719]

If she had a dowry it wasn't mentioned, was it?

[@jmarie9997]

@@bookmouse2719 I think the last chapter mentioned she was entitled to 10,000, but her father's debts may have kept her from receiving all of it.

[@edennis8578]

@@jmarie9997 It's my understanding that a daughter's portion was protected by law via a settlement contract when the parents married. However, I never understood why, with dowries of $10,000 each, the Eliot girls never married. $10,000 isn't a great amount, but it isn't terrible. All I can think is that they lived in such an isolated area that they didn't meet many men. They should have been actively seeking husbands since a $10,000 dowry would mean only £500/year to live on (at 5%, referenced in Sense and Sensibility). That what the Dashwood women had to live on, and it wasn't much. It's one thing to be particular in the choice of a husband, but I don't see Anne's sister being content to live in relative poverty after her father dies.

[@Mr3kiwis]

Sir Walter took Elizabeth to London each winter. She'd had plenty of opportunity to meet men there. She had very highfalutin ideas of what a suitable spouse for herself would be and one can only presume she scared away any man actually within her reach with her haughtiness.

[@tonyhoffman6749]

The thing I have always liked about Sir Lucas in spite of his pretentious is his unfailing politeness to every one. I think this politeness is genuine. Contrast him to Darcy at the local ball. Darcy is rudeness its self and Sir Lucas is taken aback by it. And compare him to Mr Colins who introduces himself where he is not wanted, and considers the snub a compliment!

[@electraruby4078]

Yes I agree about Sir Lucas.At his ball his manners are warm and gracious.

[@EmVeeBeen]

Hello fellow viewers, this is just a comment to boost the algorithm. Also, I think each of the Elliots role in their family are: Sir Elliot: Narcissist Parent Elizabeth: Golden Child Anne: Scapegoat Child(that had a happy ending yay!) Mary: Forgotten Child

[@dsr8223]

There was no guarantee that Wentworth would turn out well at all (or even survive), so I understand Lady Russell's concerns. Even promotion to the rank of captain didn't guarantee large compensation, as evidenced by Captain Harville's very modest home (the size of which Anne did notice). Fanny Price's mother's life turned out dreadfully after she married a sailor her family warned her against. So, what if Wentworth had come back quite poor and/or permantly injured? That would have been a completely different novel, but I suspect Anne would have married him anyway. She did have some money of her own from her mother.

[@jennifersmith-clark6418]

It's very much what I considered. Had I been in Lady Russell's position I would have pointed these things out myself. In my view the rank thing wouldn't have been an issue but the question of Wentworth coming back unharmed and with some prospects especially given the time period to be of some concern. I would have advised Anne to put him off, not break it off.

[@davidwright7193]

Wentworth in 1806 is in a much better position than Mr Price even if Mr Price doesn’t have his career cut short by injury. At that time Wentworth is Master and Commander so his next appointment will be as Captain of an unrated ship (hence the honorific Captain). However Mr Price is a marine lieutenant. This is a much bigger difference than the nominal single grade of rank. The main difference is in the distribution of the proceeds of piracy. Wentworth will get 1/4 of the ships prize money (or 3/8ths if his orders come from London) while Mr price will get and equal share of the 1/8th given to the warrant officers probably about 1/80th of the total in a frigate. Add to this the fact that Wentworth will get a ship likely to take prizes where as Mr Price may not have the same chances of there being any prize money to be divided. Also if they get promoted Wentworth is then given a more powerful ship and still as a frigate captain is likely to be on independent operations to take more valuable prizes, and will ultimately be promoted to Admiral even if invalided. While a captain of marines gets a share of the Lieutenant’s 1/8th which is likely a little bigger but not much as he will be on a larger ship with more lieutenants and also much more likely to be with the fleet and thus have few chances of taking prizes.

[@dsr8223]

@@davidwright7193 Very interesting and informative!

[@kikidevine694]

@@davidwright7193 there's a study of an almost contemporaneous couple in a surprisingly similar situation. The Captain in question makes enough to actually buy a small estate and have enough left over for an income of about £3k per year. So he's not rich rich, but it's a heck of a step up from the middling background he came from. Obviously this was rare and he was extremely lucky to be as successful as this, but it was just possible for him to do so well. Funnily enough he married the daughter of an impoverished baronet at the end of a decade of waiting. I like to think they both had a copy of Persuasion to read during the time apart

[@מריםבןישי]

why didnt captain harvell and bentwick become rich by your reckining?@@davidwright7193

[@helenannedawson3694]

I quite agree that Lady Russell's snobbery is quite dangerous to Anne in a lot of ways, and a really interesting point about her 'enabling' Sir Walter - but I do think she redeems herself: there is a lovely passage at the end of the book, which says that although she likes her own opinions, she loves Anne more, and has to take up a new set of opinions. So things turn on their head a bit - at the start of the book Lady Russell is the great persuader, and Anne's affection for her allowed it to happen; but in the end it's Anne who persuades Lady Russell to change her opinion, and for the same reason. So it's not incurable snobbery.

[@Artemis1915]

The difficulty of Lady Russell’s character is that the advice she gave Anne was sound: not even Austen would throw caution to the wind to suggest a romantic union without due consideration to the means to live well ( think about Fanny Price’s mother). The wonderful complexity of Persuasion is that Anne is stuck between a rock ( propriety) and a hard place ( youthful passion).

[@MissCaraMint]

Exactly. Anne marrying Wentworth would have been a huge gamble. Women have no estate. They would be only living of what he brought in, and he might not ever have made it. Anne could have been stuck like Fanny Price’s mother in a reduced circumstanses. And That’s if her husband doesn’t die at sea. As a widdow she would have even less. You can bet her Pompous family wouldn’t rush to help her.

[@bookmouse2719]

@@MissCaraMint Mary might have kept her on as someone to watch her children.

[@MissCaraMint]

@@bookmouse2719 She might, but at the time Mary wasn’t married. It would have just been her father Lord Eliiot and and her sisters where one of them was just as vain and class consious as her father and the other was a child and so couldn’t be depended uppon to provide for Anne at the time. There was no guarantee that any of them could get married and eventually give Anne a place if her husband died. The ones who really like Anne in the book are the Musgroves (and even they are kinda selfish about it), and they would have been under no obligation to do annything for her. We don’t even know if they were aquaited with the family at the time. It would probably be more desierable in Lady Russell mind if Anne were to marry someone who would give her security. Someone who wouldn’t go to war. Someone who had an estate and money. Someone like the Musgrove family since we know Charles did initially pursue Anne rather than Mary. Now again we don’t know what the time frame of any of this is, but the fact that Anne was able to attract two different sutors does back up Lady Russell’s point that Anne in her mind could do a lot better than this very dangerously chancy mach with Wentworth.

[@edennis8578]

Lady Russell was right to talk Anne out of the early marriage with Wentworth. The big problem was that Wentworth didn't seem to understand the reason why he was rebuffed, so after he made his fortune, he didn't return and try again. All of those wasted years! Agh!

[@Patricia-kk8tr]

@@edennis8578 or did not care to learn; he admits fault for failing to follow through with Anne because of his hurt pride. Austen juxtaposes Mrs Crofton with Mrs Smith. The first an ally of her naval husband, the second a penniless widow. Perhaps the injustice is how much of a woman’s fate is bound by marriage and circumstance.

[@akshaysangwan4442]

I love how you interpreted the passages. I realised that I was perceiving Lady Russell from Anne'e eyes ie very leniently. In Emma, it is very interesting to see Emma's views on the Coles. She thinks them beneath her because of their rank but is disappointed when she thinks she has not been invited to their party where everyone else is going. Despite her not wanting to associate with the Coles, she still expects to be approached. And when the invitation does come, she goes after all. This whole episode is such a sharply drawn portrait of a snobbish woman and as you rightly said very brave of Austen to make her heroine genuinely unlikable.

[@debshaw680]

I don’t necessarily see all of that as snobbish. They were regimented in associations so felt it was beneath her but as a young lady, she wanted to go to the party everyone was chattering about. She really had no peers her own age. Imagine growing up with no real friends because no one is deemed appropriate company. Then being the only person in town not to be invited. I have a lot of pity for Emma.

[@strll3048]

@@debshaw680 At least Emma had two very real friends, Mrs. Weston, who was far below the Coles socially, and Mr. Knightley who was far above them. . However I see your point of view.

[@byusaranicole]

She mentioned Emma and a future video about her, and I am SUPER excited about an analysis of her character. I like Emma, but she has very large character flaws.

[@debshaw680]

@@byusaranicole most good heroins do. You can’t blame her entirely because she was petted, cosseted, and told she was perfect, beautiful, generous, and the most kind person by everyone in her life.

[@sarasamaletdin4574]

I do still think this video gives more negative view of Lady Russell than Austen, since it only focuses on the beginning of how she is introduced and not how the book ends and how she accepts Wentworth.

[@ninavale.]

as for Lady Russel, I absolutely LOVE the 1995 adaptation. There is this one scene, at the end of it Lady Russell(played by the excellent Susan Fleetwood) talks to Ann about marriage, during an evening gathering(playing cards) and tells her how she decided to marry, and how she hopes Ann made her decision. We then have Mr.Elliot, coming to talk to Ann and Mrs.Russell puts her hands together in thankful/hopeful prayer for the outcome of that conversaiont. We can see that she hopes and expects Anne to accept Mr.Elliot and to have her(Lady Russell's) vision come to life. another great moment is when Captain Wentworth comes to annouce his and Anne's understaning and will to get married Sir. Walter goes "Anne? You want to marry Anne? Whatever for?" which is comedic gold.

[@edithengel2284]

It's a great movie. But this whole scene is not as it is in the novel, and indeed is something against the spirit of it.

[@bookmouse2719]

Anne was young when Lady Russell persuaded her, but as she matured she realized her advise wasn't so morally sound and she later regretted her decision when letting Cpt. Wentworth go, even his name is, "Went-worth".

[@carolinelawrie7142]

How I love your close reading of Jane's masterful novels... I have read them all many times but your analysis always unearths something new for me. Today I was struck by the inclusion of " an obliging landlord"... Perhaps Sir Walter would not have been as obliging towards Lady Russell if she had challenged his greed and indulgence. Also I'm thinking of Lady Russell driving Anne to see her poor invalid friend Mrs Smith in an undesirable part of Bath and indeed approving of the friendship. Mrs Smith had no money or rank but was an old friend and a female, so was not seen as any threat. Ironic as she was the person who confirmed Anne's suspicions of bad behaviour in Mr Elliot's past and made marriage with Anne impossible. Persuasion is my favourite Austen novel ❤

[@deegleffler4887]

I agree with you here. I also find it interesting how others see this aspect of her character. Where Anne gives her a lot of leeway and grace and just says they think differently, we see other characters considering her opinions. The most major examples I can think of are Mary - how she and Charles think of her potential opinion of Captain Benwick - and Louisa Musgrove - how she states the whole Musgrove family thinks Lady Russell thought about Charles. Lady Russell thinks a lot of people who have certain kinds of manners and how it relates to their goodness overall and suitability. It's extremely interesting and she's such a complex character. I really love how Austen will give us a lot of characters who are very visibly imperfect, who are not always to be admired, but are still good people in their own ways. Very human people.

[@sarahmwalsh]

Jane Austen truly never wasted a single word. I love how you highlight her use of words like "credit" and "entitled" with their double meanings. Wonderful!

[@travisstoll3582]

I am interested in the value of Jane Bennett. She seems to be the only character in P&P that applies perspective without prejudice and most freely. Other characters seem to only apply perspective when situations make them see another view. She seems to do so without prompt.

[@debshaw680]

But she does. Jane assumes everyone is good and only has the best motives. She’s far too placid. While it’s evident that Lizzy is highly intelligent, I’d suggest that Jane isn’t. Don’t get me wrong, I love Jane. But she’s unable to read the room. I don’t know if I’d call it pride or prejudice but honestly, she’s too trusting. It’s lucky they weren’t really launched on London society with any sort of large fortune. She’d have been taken in by every social climber, cad, and scammer. She has all the social graces, sweetness, and kindness but it doesn’t appear that she’s very bright to me.

[@pure46]

@@debshaw680 I slightly disagree, she is trusting and honest and assumes that all others are to a large degree the same ,she in my opinion is lacking imagination not intelligence

[@tangiblethursday]

I don’t think Jane is unintelligent at all. Her first instinct is to be gracious and trusting and that does lead to some people taking advantage of her, but the important thing is that she learns from that. She states plainly that her relationship with Caroline Bingley will never be what it once was because she is aware that Caroline is ill-intentioned and false. Lizzy is glad that Mr. Bingley doesn’t tell Jane about Darcy’s involvement in their separation because she knows that Jane will lose trust in him. Jane is able to think and judge others, it’s only that she first truly assumes that they are innocent until they prove they are otherwise.

[@ameliecarre4783]

I don't know, she starts always by giving people the benefit of the doubt, and she does so gracefully and kindly but it's the glass-half-full version of reserving her judgement. She's shy in society, nice to everyone but not enthusiastically outgoing, maybe it's a way to observe. She's certainly less likely than others to hold grudges but she learns her lessons all the same. She's never truly taken advantage of, when you think about it. Sure, Caroline's fake friendship is a disappointment, but aside from that, I don't recall she ever strongly cares about anyone who ends up not deserving it.

[@strll3048]

@@debshaw680 "After so short an acquaintance, do you think that we should trust in him so implicitly?" I believe that she urged caution regarding Mr. Wickham, however she is quite naïve. That would have plunged her in abysses of misery had she been a heiress in London and having no Jane Austen to rescue her.

[@ritan2]

I think that Lady Russell gets something of a bum rap in this analysis of Persuasion. Lady Russell is class-conscious, but in a way that actually reduces her own status as only the widow of a knight. She does see the immorality of Sir Walter's conduct, but her class-consciousness prevents her from confronting him directly. Her behavior towards him seems less a blindness than an acceptance of the reality of the depths of his vanity, his utter inability to change, and the social justification of it all. She recognizes that Anne's plan for retrenchment will never succeed and presents a softer version - and even that fails. Lady Russell's position in the family is not unlike Anne's - she is often ignored and demeaned. She did stand in for Lady Elliott but did so without the standing of a wife. To call her an enabler is much too harsh - she had no power to enable. And she is not the only one to defer to Sir Walter - Mr. Shepherd, Mrs. Clay, anyone who was of a lower status (and who Sir Walter had power over) overlooked his faults. I think this is as much about power as character. Lady Elliot is an otherwise perceptive and not particularly snobbish person - she sees through Mrs. Clay and she supports Anne's relationship with Mrs. Smith. And her guidance to Anne about Wentworth had many valid points. Wentworth was a naval officer *during a war*. Anne was young, naive and too little seen. Wentworth's survival, let alone success, was not a sure thing. Anne could easily have turned out like Mrs. Price (MP) or Mrs. Fairfax (Emma). Anne recognizes this in the end when she says, "It was, perhaps, one of those cases in which advice is good or bad only as the event decides..." Lady Russell and Sir Walter are symbols of the old English class values in a changing society. In the end, Lady Russell accepts Wentworth and Anne's superior insight. Sir Walter does not.

[@OkGoGirl82]

I really like your take on this. I think I am in agreement with you on that Lady Russell knows Sir Walter well enough that she could speak up, but he probably won't take her seriously. And yes, if she was an absolute snob like Sir Walter, she'd probably discourage Anne's friendship with the widow Mrs. Smith.

[@cosmiclatte9416]

Lady Russell is also very much aware of Sir Walters mistreatment of Anne and often seeks to console her.

[@heatherrobertson6110]

Really interesting. When I watched your Sir William Lucas video I was mentally comparing his behaviour with Sir Walter's appalling sucking up to the meritless Lady Dalrymple, but I didn't think about Lady Russell's behaviour and just how much in the same vein it was. I've thoroughly enjoyed these videos about class - thank you.

[@francespyne7316]

Honestly if I had seen even 5 minutes of one of your discussions I think I would have ended up being an English Lit Major

[@strll3048]

Me too!

[@iloveprivacy8167]

And then, perhaps, disappointed in my professors.

[@diannerenn4726]

Me too!

[@dorothywillis1]

Now THERE'S a real compliment!

[@diamondtiara84]

Some people (including a few of my friends) think that if they've watched the movies or TV series, then they know the whole story, but your videos show how much you miss out on if you don't read the books. I recently discovered a book called "Kelroy", that was written in 1812 by Rebecca Rush, who, had she written anymore novels, might have been an American Jane Austen. I recommend you read it, you may even want to make a video about it sometime.

[@davidjones332]

Very true. To cram a three volume novel into a couple of hours needs some savage editing, and internal monologues, vital episodes, key characters and the detailed back-stories Jane Austen worked out often disappear altogether, losing much of the subtlety of the original.

[@--enyo--]

I’ll look it up.

[@sjiva7061]

I really love this series! It makes me see some parts of the book by Jane Austen in a different light. Thank you! The series does make me wonder at the place officers, and also captains, have in this whole system. Especially thinking of the reaction of the younger Bennet sisters, when they hear that militia will come to to the Meryton.

[@davidwright7193]

Being a commissioned officer in the army and to a lesser extent the navy are among the gentlemanly professions so those that undertake them retain the rank of gentlemen, if they had it before joining. The are very much both an officer and a gentleman. The difference between the two is that an Army commission is obtained by purchase and requires little or no apprenticeship to obtain. A son destined for the army might spend some time as an ensign or cornet before getting a commission but it isn’t essential. In the Navy you need to pass the examination for Lieutenant before you can be commissioned, that is the equivalent of the civilian masters certificate enabling you to be given sole control of a vessel as a watch keeper. That certificate and thus the commission can be obtained not only as a midshipman (Ensign in the USN) but also by a petty officer or warrant officer and hence a commission could be obtained by someone whose career began before the mast. The most notable example being James Cook. In the division between worth based on competency and worth based on class the Army is on the side of class and the navy that of competence. It is worth noting that in P&P the worth of an army officer as a marriage prospect is given by their family background while in Persuasion the worth of a naval officer is given by their rank and reputation. Hence Wickham is a worthless catch as a major or a lieutenant while Wentworth is worthless as an unemployed Master and Commander but a worthy one as a successful Captain of ~5 year’s seniority .

[@diannerenn4726]

I have some insight about the Royal Navy of the period for Patrick O'Brien's novels about Lucky Jack Aubrey. The navy was a means to upward mobility because of "prize money." Being aggressive paid off.

[@gisawslonim9716]

First of all there were sea going officers in Jane Austen's own family which made her very familiar with them and probably also partial to this form of the military. Secondly, in Pride and Prejudice, the arrival of the militia meant the arrival of tens of new males of the species and that would have been excitement enough for the young Bennet sisters. After all, they must have all been sick and tired of seeing the same men at the assemblies or in the streets of the little town (more village than town in the filmed versions). Suddenly there were new faces to look at and fine physiques to admire (especially in their splendid uniforms) who would not be impressed?

[@foozjen]

@@gisawslonim9716 And they are teenage girls.

[@--enyo--]

I’d love to see a video devoted to this as well!

[@donsharpe5786]

Thank you for expanding your thoughts on Lady Russell. Ever since reading Pride and Prejudice 54 years ago, Jane Austen became my favourite author. I had difficulty in understanding Lady Russell when I first read the book, because I couldn't understand her sympathy for Sir Walter's clear weakness, i.e. his overspending and failing to pay his bills. In the 1960s I watched a local landowner leaving his Manor House and going to live in one of the estate houses. On the one hand I thought that was a bit of a downturn, while on the other I understood that they could no longer live in such a grand house. I once bought an early Georgian House, which had once been a vicarage built for a younger son complete with land that was required to support it, although the land had long gone. While I was working I could afford to heat it and afford the repair bills, roof in particular. Once I retired, I could no longer afford to keep the house up. If I had not sold the house and "retrenched" I could have been in a similar situation. What had been such a wonderful house, I could no longer afford.

[@kathleensullivan4810]

Regarding the question about "admirable" characters and their blindness to rank, doesn't Mr. Darcy initially suffer from this. As I recall, in his first proposal to Elizabeth he does take time to reference her mother's lowly connections. And while he does allow himself to look beyond them, by pointing it out to Elizabeth it does seem to be begrudgingly. Also, I love your lectures!!! I hope you will consider a series on Villette and The Professor at some point.

[@bethanyperry5337]

I so enjoy your analysis and look forward to attending your weekly “class”.

[@TheTrwebster]

Later in Persuasion, Lady Russell attempts to 'persuade' Anne that marrying Mr William Elliot would be a good thing: To become mistress of Kellynch Hall, to step into her mother's shoes. Anne is a bit bewitched by the idea, yet she has seen no flash of emotion from Mr Elliot, no burst of fury or delight. And Lady R tells her she will get to know him better after they are married: "That is not what I want!" is Anne's reply. Anne has the emotional maturity to see beyond the class consciousness of Lady Russell and understands that Mr Elliot's ability to please everyone is not a good characteristic in anyone. Lady Russell's valuing of class and rank leads her to believe Capt Wentworth isn't in Anne's class- he must work for his wealth in a dangerous profession. Sir Walter Elliot, lousy money manager that he is, is heads and tails above Capt Wentworth, because the latter has little money. This is my favourite of Austen's books: the sense of having to grow into her own space, gives Anne a depth that most of the earlier characters don't have.

[@paillette2010]

39:14 I just love this. VW’s insight has supported my suspicion that Persuasion is a much less benign look at what must have been a virtual jail cell for women’s lives. Mired in the pettiness of class and poverty you really feel Anne Elliott’s happy ending almost more than Eliza Bennett’s.

[@emmahardesty4330]

Thank you. Apology for the length of this. Greatly appreciate your assessment here. Always impressed at how Austen gives the reader a sense of Anne's independence by her assessments of Lady R; we never like the woman even though Anne, throughout the story, promotes and yet criticizes Russell. We simply like, and trust, Anne more and more. Her maturity aces everyone else in her family, and her attraction to intelligent people is appealing and enhances her own character. Also the way the Admiral (the tenant of Kellynch) is given very few phrases to comment about Sir Walter and yet we clearly realize he sees right through him, and is far more truly aristocratic in his thinking. This book, for me, remains unique among Austen's works. Not as delicious as P&P, but most thought-provoking. Equally unique in this book: the fact that Anne never falsely claims to understand her father, doesn't politely try to explain his character--and he clearly doesn't love Anne at all. This is a great novel. Because of your videos, I'm re-reading all of Austen. Always a wow.

[@juniper617]

I was always interested in the question of what Sir Walter is entitled to. He’s literally, legally entitled to exactly what he has-the wealth that can be derived from his estate-and he’s lucky to have that. He didn’t earn it. The rest of his entitlement lies only in his imagination, and his imaginary entitlement has clearly influenced how his oldest daughter and Lady Lucas view him.

[@joelledurben3799]

I don't think Lady Russell is wrong to want Sir Walter to leave the country. If he moved into a smaller house in the neighbourhood, the 'mortification' would be too much for him, and he would probably escape with Elizabeth for a long visit to London (as was his annual habit), thus incurring more costs. By getting him to Bath and renting out Kellynch, he is paying for one place only. Anne's wishes were more honourable, but Sir Walter would never have accepted it - as we see in his reaction to 'Lady Russell's too gentle reductions.'

[@janeormrod3229]

I would enjoy hearing you discuss Marianne's fate in Sense and Sensibility. Is her ending really a happy one? Will she enjoy her life with Col. Brandon? Does she really love him, or is she just traumatized by the Willoughby buisiness and now seeking a safe harbour with Brandon? I think that your videos are splendid and I really enjoy hearing your deep discussions of texts.

[@CharpyTheHedgehog]

I've absolutely loved this series on rank and class, thank you for putting out such incredible, high quality videos!

[@--enyo--]

Examining how the army/navy fits in would be interesting as well. Personally I’d love to have a video talking about how people address each other. It’s always interesting to me reading the books. Sometimes exactly who is who can get confusing.

[@singingway]

I think Lady Russell has carefully cultivated a reputation for herself of being sensible, wise, mature and level headed. However we see through the novel that she is not wise or perceptive, and is vulnerable to manipulation through classist flattery

[@Ailorn]

What I love about this dynamic in Persuasion is how relevant this is even now. Its interesting that Anne's gratitude and love for Lady Russel gave her tolerance or blindness of Lady Russel's faults. It leads to her as we find her in the early part of the novel as someone who is overlooked by everyone even by her biggest supporter. I find that so many women in the modern times still will overlook when family or loved ones disregard their boundaries or wishes. It was lovely to see that she was respected by those around her for keeping a cool head in a crisis. She felt confident in her own thoughts and didn't shrink from debating with Captain Harvell on equal terms which led to the letter scene.

[@reikun86]

I keep in mind that all the Elliot sisters lost their moral compass when their mother passed away. She obviously was a huge influence on Anne, was the only person who could've put Elizabeth in check, and would've fulfilled Mary's need for attention (and might have quelled her histrionic nature.) That said, I think Anne's mother would've made the same persuasion as Lady Russell, just the very legitimate concern about what would happen to Anne if Wentworth died in the war.

[@dorothywillis1]

Excellent analysis! I have always thought Lady Russell should have done more to help Anne get out more. Lady R. goes to Bath every winter. It would be easy for her to claim she needs Anne with her and make Anne get out into society more in spite of herself. When the book begins Anne is settling into a hopelessness that is hard to watch and Lady Russell is busy worrying about Sir Walter's feelings!

[@christinamarta2456]

It was up to Sir Walter to bring her to London for the season. Lady Russell might have enough money to give Anne a home, but perhaps not enough to launch her into society with all the trimmings that might be expected of Sir Walter's daughter. I also think Elizabeth might not be too encouraging of efforts to marry off yet another younger sister.

[@dorothywillis1]

@@christinamarta2456 You can't expect Sir Walter to accept any responsibility he doesn't want to. I didn't say Lady Russell was to bring Anne out. Anne was "out" eight years before when she met Wentworth. It would be perfectly reasonable for Lady Russell to take Anne to Bath with her as Mrs. Jennings takes Elinor and Marianne to London. In fact it would be even more reasonable, as Lady Russell has known Anne much longer than Mrs. Jennings has known Elinor and Marianne. There need be no talk of marrying off anyone. Lady Russell could say, as Mrs. Jennings does, that she enjoys having Anne with her for company.

[@a24-45]

Excellent analysis Dr Cox. I like that you describe Lady Russell as Sir Walter's "enabler"-- so true! and also, that you said outright that Lady Russell is dangerous. She seems like such a sweetie, shes nice to everyone (well mannered), she's a softie with Sir Walter, she would never lie or directly criticise anyone (the Musgroves) she adores Anne and she means well. Buuuuut....Lady Russell ruined Anne Elliot's happiness with her well-meant advice about Frederick Wentworth, and she might have done so a second time if Anne had listened to Lady R's equally well-meant hints about Mr Elliot; her good intentions are no match for her bad judgment when Lady Russell Gets It Wrong-- due to her being "blinded" by rank. "There was nothing less for Lady Russell to do, than to admit that she had been pretty completely wrong...",Final chapter, Persuasion) - I do love it when Austen occasionally leaves aside her formal vocabulary and drops straight into the vernacular. Brutal :)

[@graysawyer]

In George Elliot's Silas Marner the phrase, a delicate sense occurs again. Speaking of Nancy Lammeter, "yet she had the essential attributes of a lady - high veracity, delicate honour in her dealings, deference to others, and refined personal habits ..."

[@michaelodonnell824]

Looking back at this video and at the Wider story the novel tells, I am struck that, the reasoning behind Lady Russell's advice to Sir Walter, is probably the real reasoning behind her "Persuasion" to Anne to break up with Captain Wentworth eight years previously. The very "prejudices on the side of ancestry" were what Persuaded her that Captain Wentworth was not (or possibly could never be) good enough (ie High Born enough) for Anne Elliott, the daughter of a Baronet. If this is true, then the advice Lady Russell would have given to Anne at the end of the novel, would not really have been any different than it was before the novel began. Equally, one must grow in admiration for Jane Austen's style. We never directly learn why Lady Russell persuaded Anne against Captain Wentworth - but here, we can see EXACTLY why she probably persuaded Anne, while never revealing to Anne her REAL reasoning. Sheer Genius!

[@GrandOldMovies]

Thank you for this series - I really enjoy these close textual readings, they bring us so close to the novels and to Austen's own mind. I had a sense that Lady Russell's 'cultivated' mind might have had a horticultural allusion, in that she came out of a class/society that 'bred' her to such notions of respect, and also leniency towards people with titles. That seems to accord with what you mention at the end of your video, how Austen became increasingly less amused in her novels by the faults of her upper-class characters, which might extend to the attitudes of her society towards social class.

[@lea-analowery4585]

As an American fascinated by British peerage and royalty, this is a wonderful series filled with small treasures of information. I love Austen’s work. S&S, P&P and Persuasion are my favorites with Anne Elliot being my favorite character. Can you speak about the importance of a woman’s dowry and Mrs. Ferrars’ preference for The Honorable Ms. Morton for Edward’s bride? Also I would like you to speak about Willoughby’s abandonment of Marianne and Beth for Miss Grey and “her £50,000”.

[@marianneshepherd6286]

I'd love to hear your take on the Gardiners especially Mrs Gardiner requesting to go around Pemberley in a phantom after she told Lizzy about Mr Darcy and how he helped bring about Lydia's marriage to Wickham. Also General Tilney is very interesting in terms of snobbery. He comes across very aware of rank and marrying his children into wealthy matches.

[@mikakestudios5891]

I love Persuasion. It is my favorite Austin novel. And a large part of that is how Lady Russell and Sir Elliot are balanced against each other.

[@mariashelly6392]

I love your videos on Jane Austen's works. I'm wondering what hints you see in Persuasion that Penelope Clay will lower herself to become Mr. Elliott's mistress and not marry. I've only read the book twice and have missed cues from Austen perhaps twice. The way I see it, Mr. Elliott would abandon her as soon as possible once she was ruined and could not return to try her luck with the older Elliott.

[@edithengel2284]

He no longer has an interest in trying to protect himself from Sir Walter's having an heir. It is Austen herself who in the last chapter maintains that it is quite possible that Mrs. Clay will cajole Mr. Elliot into marrying her.

[@tonyausten2168]

I love how Smart Lady Russel comes off. Her language, and manner of speaking is exactly how Jane Austen describes her, as "Cultured". I love the way she surmises events for the audience, even in the midst of her faulty prejudice in her line of thinking. I came away adoring her very much, because i have a very good feeling that JA adored her too.

[@TheTeamDavey]

Brilliant, as always.

[@carmelalencioni8956]

I love these videos and the thought and care you put into them! Thank you very much!! :))

[@KierTheScrivener]

It is interesting to see your analysis. I saw the scene as highlighting Anne's morality and wisdom and saw Lady Russell as more as a cog in the wheel of a society that esteems class. I didn't see her as a more damaging person. Most notably as she is the only one from the beginning that respects and listens to Anne so you are obliged toward her even with her lack of sight. I also saw her 'gentle reductions' not what she would have recommended but she felt more imposed on because of rank to be delicate. But I can see the undercurrent of prejudice below. I would be interested in analysis of the Bates and Jane (Fanny has that to, the adoption of improvished gentleman's daughters or gentry adjacent into an upper family. But not seen as equal). But Mr Knightley remarks to Emma about her insulting Miss Bates and how she once was honoured by her presence. It is interesting how despite their age and financial instability that they are seen as worthy as compared to the Coles who are not as wealthy tradesman.

[@owamuhmza]

Thank you for this. A great start to the bank holiday weekend 👏👏👏👏

[@debshaw680]

Excellent episode. Your voice is so soothing and your information is so detailed and presented in an interesting way. I think there is a major disconnect in the Lady between how she forces Anne to leave the Captain and being able to see that she destroyed Anne. When the Captain returns, she once again attempts to interfere despite seeing her original plan for Anne in Bath turn to dust because the man was unworthy. It’s clear who is the honorable gentleman. Despite how he made his fortune being involved with terrible things.

[@catrionahall9444]

Lady Russel, like Emma Woodhouse, is not a faultless character. They make mistakes in judgement with consequences. Emma makes hers early in life, is a quick learner and learns from them. That is the thing that redeems her for me, she faces and admits her mistakes. Lady Russel eventually faces and admits hers, when the proof is presented to her. She too, is brave enough and honest enough to learn to rethink. Both Lady Russel and Emma are also redeemed by being warm hearted.

[@charlesiragui2473]

Jane Austen lived in a country engaged in a 20 year war against revolutionary France. Her views in Persuasion could be interpreted as sympathetic to egalitarian ideals but we never encounter strident objection to titled status in her novels. This might be prudence given the geopolitical struggle her country was engaged in and the consequent impossibility of endorsing an end to aristocracy. But I think we can trace a different answer in Persuasion. Anne's plan for redressing the destructive financial trajectory the family is on could be described as the aristocratic plan: first of all preserve the patrimonial estate and do so with noble austerity, sacrificing comfort for reputation. Sir Walter's plan is the ignoble one: give up the land, the great house, the gardens, the paintings, the rich furnishings, all for a rented, showy city lifestyle. In this sense, Anne is the true defender of the family title and Sir Walter is careless of his title (the book of the Baronetage specifically mentions Kellynch Hall). From this, one might say that Jane Austen does not reject the system of rank and titles, she merely wants people to behave "as they should".

[@edithengel2284]

It seems to me that Lady Russell occupies a different position in relationship to Anne Elliot than Sir William Lucas and the others who are blind to the faults of those of rank and consequence do to the protagonists of the other Austen novels. Anne, as we know, understands that she and Lady Russell do not agree, and have not agreed, on every topic; yet, in spite of that, Anne remains fond of her. In fact at the end of the novel, one of the pleasures of her union with Capt. Wentworth for Anne is that Wentworth and Lady Russell will get to know and appreciate each other. This argues a capacity for growth not apparent in the other excessive admirers of rank and aristocracy. I think it is a mark of Austen's maturation as a novelist that a person with this flaw is treated as complicated and fully human character rather than as a complete absurdity.

[@elisabethbuckley5725]

I've listened twice now as there is a lot to ponder. Excellent video thank you.

[@wraithconscience]

Another lovely and perspicacious discourse. Thank you so much! I observe that the word "delicate" so closely resembles "fragile" -- for Lady Russell's honor is, in my view, rather brittle, not compassionate, not deep, lacking in human feeling. The name "Russell" derives from old French and/or old Norse -- "red haired, red skinned". Red haired -- to be rash, perhaps? Red skinned -- to blush, perhaps? Oh, she is proper enough, but whether she is truly "honorable", as the title "Lady" ironically hints at, is most questionable. I wouldn't want Lady Russell to be the voice of the nation on any moral question, beautifully alluded to with her questions as to whether the resolution had been carrried at the philosophical society. Not after her emotional brutalisation of Anne. Lady Russell's honor is canned, off the shelf, ordinary, clichéed, frankly it is grotesque. So, I believe the words "fragile" or "brittle", "not strong", "not robust" rather admirably to carry the sense here, with all its implications, which the novel bears out. As to "...as any person of sense and honesty could be", it rather implies that she has indulged Sir Walter to the limit without becoming an out and out flatterer for manipulation's sake. It is -- so Austenian -- likely the only genuine expression of Lady Russell's kindness, misguided and misplaced as it always is: She believes she is advising Anne creditably, but almost ruins hers life. She dismisses Captain Wentworth (...a man who went in search of his worth...) though he serves his country, is the opposite of Sir Walter's limitless vanity, is steadfast and true to Anne (sure, he belittles hiimself for inconstancy, but this is more emotional than realistic, for in the end he did not seriously consider any other woman other than Anne). The trump card of her error, Lady Russell succeeds in preserving Sir Walter's dignity without making a dent in his humanity: On the contrary, she has sealed his vanity forever, allowing him to continue to believe his inflated opinion of himself was justified all along and that these vagaries and troubles are exactly of the very kind that explicitely and specifically afflict only the virtuous and well-born, of which he is neither. He can now go on being the drama queen he always was in full glory. Sir Walter's homosexuality is fascinating and unexplored in literary analysis. This is a shame in a world which presumes everyone to have been blind, homophobic biggots until yesterday and then only redeemed as a result of idiotic woke babblings. Poppycock!!! Jane Austen was no biggot. On the contrary, she deliniates with great acceptance of reality "life on the down-low", that is married gay men, most creditably. This is a fine portrait, indeed, though not claiming to be definitive of homosexuals as a group, but rather one manifestation. But it is there and that is important. Though a depiction of only one manifestation of homosexuality, the married semi-nobility, able to make any remark, shielded by title and position, it is still a sensitive, accurate, profound depiction -- Sir Walter even shields his own obsession with man-watching by prefacing or tacking on some equally impertinent comments about the women (not "ladies", but "women") passing in the street. I'll not go into the testicular symbolism of "macaroon". But ts is classic Austen at its finest! Sir Walter even reveals a lurid arousal for his tenant, the admiral, "if only (his) man could see to the arranging of his hair" -- a remark almost as explicit an expression of sexual lust and frustration as Austen's killer line from Emma, and then from the most unlikely source: "Mr. Knightly invites you to taste his strawberries, which are ripening fast"! Anyway, lovely analysis, once again. Thank you and God bless !!

[@glendodds3824]

Si Walter is a pompous fool with an inflated view of his own importance but as a member of a family that had been baronets for over 150 years (and perhaps untitled members of the landed gentry for longer than that) he was well-born.

[@cminmd0041]

I love how Austen shows this war within Lady Russel between what she knows is right behavior and how immobilized she is by her expectation that "her Betters" will be living embodiments of that righteousness. It very much reminds me of Tilney's "We are men of England" speech or Jane's conviction that if anyone of quality knew someone who didn't honor a deathbed request would suffer severely in society, despite John Dashwood suffering none. But also, other than paying his bills, Lady Russell doesn't have any ability to make him do anything.

[@carolynwu3649]

Ｉam a student majoring English literature. I love your approach to persuasion so much.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Persuasion is one of my favourite novels - it's so nuanced, with so much going on. Good luck with your studies! There's no better subject to study.

[@jrpipik]

I think the only good thing about Lady Russell is that she likes Anne. Conversely, Anne's only real flaw is that she respects Lady Russell.

[@charlesiragui2473]

We are instructed throughout the novel that Lady Russel is good, even excellent, but it is hard to think of any special demonstration to us of her goodness. Could this point to Austen engaging here in irony? Perhaps we are in fact meant to accept as given that the authorial voice is speaking a truth and that the book is simply more focused on exposing the failings of just this kind of intelligent, capable, honest upper class conservative.

[@shoshannasofaer3903]

How do you feel about her positive response to the proposal from Charles Musgrove to Anne? It surprised me, and I wonder if she had begun to think, as Anne remains unmarried, that he was “better than nothing.” I don’t recall Austen telling us, as well, how Lady Russell felt about Admiral Croft renting Kellynch given that he is without any “title” beyond Admiral. I really enjoy your presentations. I have read ALL of Austen, novels, juvenilia, letters plus many biographies and criticism. I did NOT major in English literature, but started reading Austen in my 20’s and have never stopped. Am reading Emma at the moment. I am also doing some writing involving Austen, for my own pleasure and unlikely publication. Oddly, professionally I analyze health policy. But the joy of reading great literature remains central to my life. Thanks for what you do.

[@jmarie9997]

I think LR was beginning to worry by then. At 19, Anne was too good for Wentworth, at 22 she would be lucky to get Charles Musgrove. She may have overestimated the attraction the middle daughter of a mere baronet would receive?

[@MidnightBlueOwl]

Hello Dr Cox, I really enjoy your close reading videos on literature and especially the ones on Jane Austen's novels and characters. I've learned many new things and even shared some of the videos with friends, they were so good. ^_^ Anyway, I was wondering if you ever intended to make a close reading video on the unfinished novel "Sanditon". I would love your thoughts and analysis on that lesser known work of hers. Keep up the good work! :D

[@greenonions5296]

The reason Lady Russell is not so excellent is because she wants to control, she wants people to take her advice, adhere to what she would have, orchestrate them. Likes the feeling of directing everyone around her more than out of wanting the best for them. It wasn't just because Anne was young, she's still trying to do it in the end with multiple people. And even after Anne clearly (in other words/excellent manners speak) told her she loved Wentworth and would have been happier. Even after when he can clearly "afford "her now and even rose to her rank despite her "ancestry" because her family put themselves in debt, because times were changing, and he achieved the respectability of Captain.

[@darthlaurel]

She acts according to her own lights, as do we all. She was probably given a fairly heavy charge from Lady Elliot's deathbed. Knowing that Sir Walter would not be an adequate parent, Lady Russell was left to fill in the gaps (and very large gaps they are as we see in the book), and both Lady Elliot and Lady Russell probably hoped that it would be enough to somewhat offset the vanity and stupidity of the girl's father. Is she a snob? You have convinced me. But we have the mitigating circumstance that she is standing in for someone of higher rank than she is, and the directionality of her respect is, of course, going to be towards more respect than he deserves. Is this a mistake? Yes. We see early on that she does not see clearly in everything, but she does see clearly in some things. And the objection to Mrs. Clay, though it seems rooted in snobbery, is still a correct objection and one that Anne shares. Lady Russell is a mixed bag, and this makes her more interesting and likable. Of course, in contrast to the unlikeable characters, it isn't very difficult to like her and try to see things from her perspective. As far as influencing Sir Walter and Elizabeth to greater economy, no one had any chance, as we quickly learn. So her less rigid economies don't seem like such an error. She probably saw very clearly that it would be hard enough to get him to make any change that, as we are told, he didn't really want to make himself. I appreciate this segment. Thanks.

[@juniper617]

I agree, especially because at the end of the novel she is able to admit she was wrong.

[@lightlaughter4992]

Excellent analysis, as per usual. Thank you so very much for all your hard work! Looking closely at the passages of the novel which you delved into, I feel the narrator is often sarcastic: For example, the expression "blinded a little" is contradictory in itself - nobody can be just a little blind, blind is blind, an absolute state of being. And therefore I feel we are to understand this expression as ironic, i.e. meaning the direct opposite -> Lady Russell is absolutely blind to Sir Walter's considerable faults of character and behaviour! Once again, thanks. I always look forward to your videos.

[@EmilyHaston]

I have only read Persuasion once and am far more familiar with the wonderful 1995 film version. So it seems that there is a whole lot more to Lady Russell that I thought! I agree that although she is probably a fairly good person, she is blinded to rank and standing in the class system. This kind of attitude may only damage the person holding it - eg, they miss out on certain friendships, relationships, events or jobs because of their snobbery - but I'm with you that in Persuasion Lady R is a definite enabler of bad behaviour, as well as being influential over those who would value her advice.

[@DipityS]

So interesting! It's making me rethink Lady Russell's introduction; and I'm starting to rank her in with Sir William Lucas in the silliness of her views of rank. Although, Lady Russell in the end does place her love and care for Anne ahead of her own ideas of rank - and therefore changes and grows to become a better person, which I believe is something Jane Austen valued. Your talk also put me in mind of the obsequiousness of Mr Collins and Lady Catherine's entitlement and arrogance - and how that is mirrored in Sir Walter and Elizabeth's embodiment of both attitudes - swanning about being dreadful and full of themselves and their status with all and sundry and then grovelling humiliatingly when the Dalrymples visit bath. Jane Austen plays with those characters traits quite a bit in her novels when I come to think on it.

[@jmarie9997]

Lady Russell was a snob. I do think her concerns were valid nine years before. Anne was 19. Wentworth was broke and going to war. If he had been killed in battle, would her father have taken her back?

[@debshaw680]

A widowed daughter would have the same value she had as spinster, a genteel servant and companion, tho she could be married off again to greater advantage.

[@MandieTerrier]

Then what if he had been injured and become like Mr Price? A drunk bafoon that drinks their income

[@sharragamez1318]

I don't think they expected to marry before he made his fortune. There are numerous discussions of uncertain and long engagements.

[@sarasamaletdin4574]

@Deb Shaw Walter Elliot’s main concern in life isn’t marrying off his daughters to greatest advantages (or otherwise Elizabeth and Anne had been married off long ago by him scheming some way and bullying Anne to accept someone). Even if it is for some Austen characters. But his vanity. His vanity would be insulted that daughter of a baronet would be a widow of a poor man and he would not have anything to do with her, he didn’t even like Anne much in the first place. He clearly doesn’t also know how to handle finances either.

[@debshaw680]

@@sarasamaletdin4574 I think he’d always be trying to find reflected glory. He’d still try to use her to achieve it.

[@diannerenn4726]

I so appreciated the contrast with P&P. Thank you.

[@SailorMoon-in-Cancer]

I’d love to hear your take on Emma. While she’s clearly flawed and not presented as a perfect role model, she’s still written as a lovable protagonist who ought to get a happy ending. And yet not only is she one of Austen’s biggest snobs, but she also never really learns the error of her ways and is seemingly rewarded for her snobbery in the end. After having been encouraging Harriet to ignore her class background and marry a man of higher status for months and months, Emma immediately does a 180 the moment Harriet steps on Emma’s own territory. There’s a lengthy monologue where Emma is horrified at the prospect of “lowly” Harriet being the mistress of Knightley’s estate, at the end of which she concludes she’s the only woman fit to be Knightley’s wife because she’s his only equal in class. And all her dreams come true: Knightley admits he never even thought of Harriet as his wife, and Harriet is conveniently married off to a farmer and magically vanishes from the story, so we never learn how her marriage came to be and how hurt she was by Emma’s betrayal. So Emma never has to confront the consequences of her snobbery, and the novel ends with the class status quo preserved. P.S. “Good guy” Knightley was also the one who argued that Harriet should be forever grateful for a marriage proposal from a farmer and would be the greatest fool to refuse him for any reason. So really, this novel is full of snobs who end up uniting in their shared snobbery, and I’m interested in your take on it.

[@Marielusi]

I go along with all of what you said. Just one thing: (I think it's still snobbish but) I believe Knightley didn't only take Harriet's rank into his opinion of her having to be happy to get a farmer. I guess he thought hear a bit simple minded. And that's why he thinks quite highly of Robert Marting (as high as he can think of a farmer) because he thinks Martin is quite smart and able to run a big farm as young as he is. So I think as snobbish as it might be, Knightly values intelligence quite highly in anyone, no matter the status and rank.

[@diannerenn4726]

Do we forget sometimes in all of this that the life consequences of not marrying as well as they could were pretty harsh for women. Emma is an exception among Austen heroines. Harriet needed a Robert Martin, and the gaps in that story may be more editorial than anything else. I think too of Mrs. Bennett, a difficult character to be sure. But her girls were in real peril if they could not find a suitable place in class-conscious Georgian society.

[@SailorMoon-in-Cancer]

@@diannerenn4726 Lizzie Bennet also needed a Mr Collins, but neither Austen nor the reader want her to end up in a loveless marriage. It’s made clear that Mrs Bennet is acting selfishly when she’s insisting on Lizzie’s sacrifice. So yes, Harriet had to marry someone, but it’s still a tragic ending, given the circumstances. She was in love with another man, and then her best friend of higher status pulled the rug under her feet, admitted that she wanted the said man for herself and that Harriet could never hope to become a gentleman’s wife. This is preceded by Emma’s long rambling about how disgusted she was about a potential Harriet Knightley, as if Harriet was some pest and Knightley’s estate was about to get infested. There’s really no way around this betrayal and expression of absolute disgust at Harriet’s background, and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Austen never gives Harriet a chance to express her thoughts and feelings again. How could she? It would make Emma the villain of the story. So Harriet just disappears altogether, allowing Emma to have her happily ever after without feeling any guilt. From what we can tell, Harriet marries Martin because she doesn’t believe she would ever have any other options, as Emma told her. But it’s not a happy union, and it’s not the ending to admire (imo).

[@elisabethbuckley5725]

@@SailorMoon-in-Cancer I don't think Harriet will end up unhappy with Robert Martin at all. She seems to be a very suggestible sort of person who can adapt her ideas quickly. I'm sure she adapts them back to Robert Martin with whom she was in love at the start of the novel. Mr Knightley wasn't in love with her, so it would not have been a happy match at all. Unrequited love is hell.

[@SailorMoon-in-Cancer]

@@elisabethbuckley5725 I’m not suggesting Harriet would’ve been happy with Knightley. It’s clear he could never consider her as a potential partner, and he’s only slightly less of a snob than Emma is, but not that much different from her. Still, I think he’s the only man Harriet had true feelings for. Martin was the first man to pay attention to her, which flattered her and provided with new experience but didn’t give birth to any strong affection. Elton was simply a product of Emma’s influence and suggestion. But Knightley was the only man Harriet came to love on her own volition. Sure, he “saved” her at the ball, but she doesn’t jump after Churchill when he literally saves her life, she remains in awe of Knightley alone. She might find herself content with Martin, but it’s a matter of adapting to one’s circumstances and not willingly choosing them. And I don’t feel comfortable going along with both Austen’s and Emma’s idea that Harriet will just have to deal with her situation and find a way to be happy with what she currently has. She’s not a toy to be given to a man whenever Austen and Emma want that, she’s a human with feelings and isn’t less deserving of a happy ending simply because she’s of a lower class background.

[@catrionahall9444]

Lady Russel “opposed Anne’s wishes “ in the choice of removal location, Bath, she would have made more severe retrenchment recommendations as Anne wished, if they might have had a chance of acceptance.

[@catherinecarter3465]

Don't forget, Lady Russell had no way to know that Wentworth would be successful. He and Anne could have ended up like Fanny Price's parents, living on his half-pay with a passel of kids they could not afford

[@janetsmith8566]

Would you please tackle: should Emma have been able to discern the mystery of frank Churchill based on all that he says to her? Thank you! Enjoying your videos/ style

[@jospenner9503]

Not just overlooking the faults of those who possess rank and are of higher class, but also seeks to rationalize or justify their words and behavior. How much crime and bad behavior have people gotten away with because they were considered of greater status and ancestry?

[@prst4190]

Lovely video. Yes, Austen does want the reader to think more critically about the veneer of class that fixes people and families in their place. However, it must be said that this stratification, admittedly loose, of British society had served England quite well for many centuries. After all, when Austen is writing Britain is rising to the hegemonic position it enjoyed in the latter half of the century. It cannot be gainsaid that that ascendency was not partially indebted to that arrangement of classes.

[@rachelfallon2136]

Great series on social class in Austen!

[@luchia4tom134]

the 'blinded her a little to faults' part. i always thought it was what lady russell would say. so it's in the narrators voice, but its like if the narrator had asked lady russell if she had any prejudices and she responded that her value for rank blinded her a little to the faults. this would mean that shes aware of her prejudices, but believes it to only blind her 'a little'. it would also make her think she has her prejudices under control as she knows about them, and thinks she knows how strong they are, which would make her think that her advice is sound as she has taken her prejudice into account when in reality she is still blind to their faults and her advice has many flaws as a result.

[@s.o.3753]

I’ve been loving your videos about class in Austen, particularly interesting as a counterpoint to all the uninformed opinions out there claiming that Austen is “girl literature”. As always, so much respect and admiration for your work - incredibly detailed and well researched, but you make it look easy!

[@patriciatolliver4057]

Patty- I love the analysis I have heard so far. You have given me opportunity to see more in these novels as well as an opportunity to exercise what I already know. I am a fan of this channel

[@wallhagens2001]

I enjoyed this series and learned so much. You know, this Jane Austen person was really a genius. : )

[@gowrinandana8999]

Could you please do an analysis of Villette by Charlotte Bronte??

[@rufescens]

What an incredible video! You go so far past the novel--your deductions about how Jane Austen's views about "vanity and snobbery" may have evolved as evidenced by different treatment in Pride and Prejudice and Persuasion just blow me away. I'm curious about the word "apprehension" ("as being Sir Walter, in her apprehension..."). Is this another one of Jane Austen's double-meanings? In modern usage, to apprehend could mean to discern or perceive something, but apprehensive also means fearful. Is Jane Austen implying that Lady Russell is a little fearful of Sir Walter, on account of a difference in rank, or some other social difference? (I know I would be afraid of giving someone advice they didn't want to hear, if I owed something to that person--say, kindness, or my living accommodations.)

[@Balthrop]

Your insight is so entertaining. I am going to read Persuasion again now. You make it seem new

[@SarahElisabethJoyal]

It's stated that she approves of Anne's acquaintance with Mrs Smith, and even lends Anne the use of her carriage to make those visits, but I'm still working out what to make of that. (Also, the scene where Anne and Mary discuss introducing her to Captain Benwick is hilarious.)

[@edithengel2284]

Why would Lady Russell not be in favor of Anne visiting Mrs. Smith?

[@SarahElisabethJoyal]

@@edithengel2284 hypothetically, for the same reason that Sir Walter disapproves - because Mrs Smith is a poor widow of no importance

[@edithengel2284]

@@SarahElisabethJoyal I think Lady Russell is much freer than Sir Walter from the effects of snobbery, even if she is not entirely free of them. And perhaps unlike Sir Walter she is aware that a school fellow of Anne's is probably not a person of low degree--she may even have known Mrs. Smith as a girl, in the days after Anne's mother's death when Anne was at school in Bath. And unlike Sir Walter she may well feel that making a charitable visit to a friend who is ill and fallen on hard times is a worthy activity. What ever one feels about Lady Russell's behavior around Wentworth, she was a much kinder and more compassionate person than Sir Walter.

[@SarahElisabethJoyal]

@@edithengel2284 of course! Her prejudices are not absolute, and that's what makes her a relatable person rather than a conduct book caricature

[@TVandManga]

Brilliant video, my favourite of a fascinating series!

[@feliciaaltena]

Great video as always! I always interpreted Lady Russell's bias against Captain Wentworth to be a generational thing as well. It seems to me that the class hierarchy was more entrenched before the Regency era and therefore one could interpret the difference in Lady Russell's values and Anne's values to be a generational conflict (in part). Almost reminds me of milenials complaining about the outdated views of the boomer generation..:) anyway, looking forward to the next video!

[@nathanalbright]

I think it is particularly sad that it is said of Anne at the end of Persuasion that she only had two friends to add to her new husband's circle, and that is Lady Russell and Mrs. Smith, one of whom is a snob who long opposed Mr. Wentworth's courtship, and the other an ailing widow in need of help to sort out property entanglements.

[@cminmd0041]

But both are incredibly loyal to Anne. We all love yelling at Lady Russell for not being psychic but if Lady Russell gave the same advice to Fanny Ward and kept her from marrying Mr Price who fell from the rigging instead of making a bundle in war we'd all call her a genius. I don't think sorting out entanglements is the fault of Mrs Smith, it should be more an indictment of the patriarchy that lets widows get exploited if they don't have a man to force their interests in court!

[@nathanalbright]

@@cminmd0041 I don't think blame is necessarily involved with either, I just find it rather sad. I also think that the fact that Anne's two only friends to add to those of her husband's are rather intriguing in that both are widows of rather ambiguous social status. I think that Jane Austen was trying to highlight that Anne was certainly not a snob and that she clearly was the sort of person who had her sisters' backs, whether her literal sisters (who did not always appreciate it) or her close friends, or even her defense of women in that memorable conversation in the Pump Room. There is clearly room for some serious feminist analysis Jane Austen's portrayal of Anne and her friendships in Persuasion.

[@strll3048]

@@cminmd0041 Very insightful... and Jane Austen says in the novel something along the lines of that the value of Lady Russel's interference would be really decided by the way events unfolded. If Captain W. had failed financially or became a drunkard or a womanizer or all three, or died and left her an impoverished widow, then her advice would have been stellar. An example would be Jane Fairfax's mother who "sank of consumption and grief" after the death of her husband. Were it not for the loving grandmother and aunt and the almost miraculous intervention of Colonel Campbell, who knows what would have become of her. The Elliots seem quite cold hearted and unlikely to help poor orphans...

[@MandieTerrier]

@@cminmd0041 that's exactly what I was thinking. We hate on Lady Russell, but it could have easily become like Fanny's mother in Mansfield Park. A buffoon who chooses drink over rent

[@jmarie9997]

Well, Anne grew up in a family where she was basically viewed as... slightly better than part of the staff. Useful to have around, but not to considered. Lady Russell loves her. How can she not listen to the one person who LISTENS?

[@heathertaylor-willockx3632]

Another fascinating video! Thank you

[@stretchgrieme]

Thank you so much for your insights !

[@tess4823]

Thank you for this analysis, I always listen with great pleasure to your "close readings". All your points are very well argued, however I don't feel that, in the novel, there is such a strong contrast between an "old order" and a "new order" as you suggested around the end of the video. I think the comparison is on a much more "personal" level: Lady Russell's "concerns" are founded on a "prejudice on the side of ancestry" and to a certain extent on her affection for Anne, whereas Anne's actions and understanding are the result of a very firm moral compass that is, I think, typical of this character and not (alas!) of a new order or a new perspective in society in general

[@kevinrussell1144]

You’re probably talking about someone that married into my distant family, but I forgive you. And thank you, Dr. Cox, for your posts and the platform. Your reviews make me think, and I learn and appreciate, so isn’t that the whole point? Yes, I fear Lady Russell is a snob, although an earnest one who thinks she means well. Anne missed the boat the first time because she was young and could be “persuaded” that the upside of Wentworth was not worth the risk, especially given that Anne was the younger sister of a baronet (not quite a baron but above a knight). So that one is on Anne. With age comes wisdom, and on the second go-round, Anne has enough sense and time to catch the boat and sail away. She recognizes that Lady Russell trying to steer her toward the other Mr. Eliot for the “good of the family” and for Anne’s secured place in society shows that lady Russell, besides being a snob, is not very astute and is blinded by class. She cannot see that Wentworth is everything Elliot Junior is not, even though Anne can clearly see that the latter is also a rake, a gambler, and probably a budding monster. The folio set of Austen that I read from has a very good discussion on the merits of this book. The reviewer (I think it was a Mr. Church) notes that some details of the prose are weak because of Jane’s failing health, and that Anne is almost supernaturally unbelievable. It is a fairy tale with many dark characters, but the amazing Anne Eliot makes up for so much. I like this one a lot, although I’ve only read it once, and love the Amanda Root adaptation. I’ve also been informed that the newer versions are not bad either, so I guess these sites do earn their keep.

[@glendodds3824]

I Kevin, I have replied twice to the last comment you posted elsewhere (on the site "In Defence of Mrs Bennet") but for some reason my replies are not showing and I am thus replying here instead. I have enjoyed discussing history and Poldark etc with you. Take care.

[@kevinrussell1144]

@@glendodds3824 Glen. Same here, friend. I’ve very much enjoyed the discussion. Sounds like Octavia has found a new gig and will not be posting as much as she did previously, yet we’re just into the beginning of Jane Austen July. Are you taking any of the challenges? Some of the other Austen sites make a big deal out of it. Take care, guy. You never said what kind of summer it has been there. The weather here has been cool and VERY dry, and the political atmosphere is charged and ominous, with the market (perhaps?) teetering on the precipice, and Saruman crying “to war”. Makes one want to sit down to a cup of tea, and wonder why people can't be nicer to each other.

[@glendodds3824]

@@kevinrussell1144 Hi Kevin, I have looked at several of the videos uploaded by devotees taking part in Jane Austen July but I am not really taking part in the month's activities. Yes, Octavia is going to be uploading less material and that is also true of Ellie Dashwood. It's been a very hot day here and the hot weather is set to continue. We are therefore probably heading for a drought. I have a brother who lives in the south of England and they are usually more badly affected if one occurs. Anyway, take care.

[@kevinrussell1144]

@@glendodds3824 Thanks. The reason I was asking about the weather was partly because I've been watching some coverage of Wimbledon and the Scottish Open. The weather has been incredibly dry and balmy. When we were in the UK in summer it was overcast and rainy most days. Yes, sounds like a drought there. We'll see what happens this week at St. Andrews. And funny you should mention it, but I was just watching an Ellie Dashwood video. She's a California girl, apparently, and wants to devote more time toward better health and doing things important to her well being (like going to Korea). The Jane Austen field will be more open to usurpers, it appears. Take care. I promised some one I'd try to finish Northanger during the month, but so far I'm stuck. Catherine is just a little too dense and innocent to be very interesting, and most of the rest of the characters are shallow or villains. I don't even like Henry that much, as he seems to be oblivious (if clever) most of the time. He also knows too much about fabrics. The Tilney family must be shockingly bi-polar, if nor bi.

[@alliswell44596]

Very insightful 🙏. Could u do a close reading on whether Caroline Bingley, being a snob like lady Russel, was indeed in love with Darcy or she was merely attracted by his rank and looks? Was there any deep attachment and she was left heartbroken for good?

[@eskina1]

Excellent Analysis! Thank you. There is an interesting comparison between Mrs. Bennet, and Lady Russel, at the end of the respective novels. Both women detest the romantic hero, and are forced to change their mind. But Mrs. Bennet, who cannot be accused of having a "cultivated mind", rather quickly does a 180, and begins worshipping her future son in law. For Lady Russel, on the other hand, it takes much more time, and the acknowledgement of error causes her pain...

[@edithengel2284]

Lady Russell does not detest Wentworth. She only found him insufficiently wealthy to provide for Anne, and perhaps a little socially inferior, at the time of the original engagement. That it takes her a while to work through her error is a mark of how superior she is to Mrs. Bennet, who changes her mind instantly merely because Darcy is rich.

[@kathleenbreslin3546]

Would you do something on Lady Bertram and Emma’s father? They are both pretty useless and everyone around them makes that possible. Another reading on perceptions of rank and what is their due. I enjoy your work and listen more than once as I learn again something new. Thank you.

[@DrOctaviaCox]

Many thanks for watching, Kathleen. I'm so pleased that you enjoy my videos, and find them rewarding watching. That's a great point you make about Lady Bertram and Mr Woodhouse - it is their rank, and money, that enables their indolence and passive selfishness. They exert control through making others of a lower status pander to their wishes (Lady Bertram with Fanny Price, and Mr Woodhouse, for example, with Miss and Mrs Bates).

[@kathleenbreslin3546]

@@DrOctaviaCox Thank you for the reply! I am so thrilled!

[@ninavale.]

while I know that the rank was wiedely different, but I cannot help but think of Don Magnifico from Rossini's Cinderella, when I think of Sir Walter Elliot. The Opera is from around same time, being first played in 1817...and we have the character of the Baron, who squandered all the money his family had(including his step-daughters inheritence left to her by her mother) on frivouls things such as dresses for his own two daughters. and he's so broke that half of the mansion/palace had to be closed off because the state of disrepair it was in made it unihabitable, and he admits that the second half of the house is a ruin too. and in many stagings it's shown to have a roof so leaking that the family has to use umberallas indoors and even sleep with them over their heads, so they won't get wet. and Don Magnifico is shown as a negative, pathetic character and him and his daughters are throughly humbled by the end.

[@haxel222]

I have yet to watch the video but am sure that it will be insightful and interesting- as always. However, I'd like to ask you a question and I would love if you'd give me some advice (but it's totally up to you!). In a few months, I'd be giving an interview in which I may be presented with a piece of poetry and be asked to analyze it and discuss it with the interviewer (though I am not a 100 percent certain that it would be a part of the interview or not). Could you please tell me some good resources where I can read such poems that would help me practice for my undergraduate entrance exams for English? It would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance 😊

[@catrionahall8435]

Coming back to this video after some time is a good exercise. Lafayette Russell is well meaning but certainly biased towards high rank Her bias has not been challenged until Anne wished to marry Fredrick Wentworth in 1806, when her bias has caused deep hurt. She is not acknowledging this even to herself yet. Frederick Wentworth is not fault free it has to be stated. He is charming and also well meaning but rash, proud and petulant. We forgive him because he is deeply warm hearted and can overcome his pride to admit his mistakes. Lady Russell has to face her errors, admit them and learn from them, which she eventually does do. We forgive people who admit error and try to do better. Sir Walter ans Elizabeth don’t need forgiveness and don’t want it. Life May bite them but they are not able to learn. Rationality, being an element of intelligence, may also be limited by capacity at birth. Perhaps cultivation may increase or refine it, but cannot supply what is not there ( which goes back to intelligence being a gift not a virtue). So reverence for rank does certainly blind Lady Russell until she is forced to learn eventually.

[@DeeWaterlily]

The only character in Jane Austins world who buys into rank and yet is still considered “good”, would maybe be Edmond Bertrum. I think that’s mostly towards his parents and older brother who he considers to be good. He is also blinded by Mary Crawford’s beauty and style to her faults. Ironically, it was he who taught Fanny to be the way she was even though he didn’t rise to his own standards. Yet in the story he is considered a good person and worthy of Fanny’s love.

[@glendodds3824]

As the son of a baronet, Edmund was born into high society. Baronets were towards the upper end of the upper class, most of whom were untitled gentry like Mr Darcy..

[@cosmiclatte9416]

One of the things I love about Austen was her complex female characters, something I feel gets lost with a lot of female led stories today. I think writers are afraid of making their female characters “unlikeable“ and therefore don’t give them any real flaws. I like how Austen’s characters are not 100% good or bad (unless they are meant to be the villain). Her characters always feel very human.

[@AldWitch]

Another very interesting video. I have always enjoyed comparing this passage to Anne's later discussion with Mr Elliot about the merits of rank, and what constitutes "the best society". Love the haircut BTW.

[@stephaniew.8678]

Would love to hear you ‘unpick’ the whole ‘Lovers’ Vows’ play episode in Mansfield Park, rather like you did with the charades scene in Jane Eyre. :)

[@BionicOffice]

We know the Austin's were a naval family. With all this talk of duty, dignity and what is owed to various ranks I am reminded of Horation Nelson's quote of 1805 "England expects that every man will do his duty" .