Drop Tubes. Do They Actually Work?

[@erklaerbaer01]

I can already hear people typing: "you just need a longer drop tube dude" like a 100 footer LOL

[@Everythingblackpowder]

😂

[@totallyjonesin]

@@Everythingblackpowder This video proves my dad right as he explained it to me 50 years ago. Home beer brewers do this to fill bottles from the bottom up to reduce foam out. Other than that I can't see the need.

[@MattGoodman-vl7th]

Maybe with a copper condenser coil off grandpa's still too 😅

[@exothermal.sprocket]

Here's an idea: dump your power into the case in the conventional funnel way, and touch a sonic toothbrush to the side of the casing, see if the powder settles down into the case. We're talking about very tiny high frequency buzz, not paint-can-shaker vibrations.

[@davefellhoelter1343]

I just tap a case or paper a couple times with my filler, Done. Less is More for me.

[@mikeclement5383]

Put powder in, shoot. No hurt brain.

[@jtcustomknives]

Vibrating it does not work. I have tried it and I was able to get much more powder in the case when using a drop tube.

[@garrettfromsmokeinthewoods]

Everyone thinks they have great ideas, but few people seem to actually put them to use or test them. Great video, jake

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@sheepsfoot2]

" great ideas, but few people seem to actually put them to use or test them." LOL then tell that to BPCR Silhouette shooters 😂! In this episode Willard was trying to be clever ( a smart@rse) but only showed his ignorance on what little he knows about reloading black powder cartridges ! 1/ he's using 3F well that's a much less of a problem than 2F = larger kernels 2/ using a drop tube you are supposed to slowly pour the powder not just dump it in. 3/ Original black powder cartridges like for example my 45/70 had much thinner cases didn't have that 10mm solid brass base = less powder you can fit inside ! 4/ the whole idea of settling the powder kernels with a drop tube and vibrating the case is when you seat the bullet there's less crushed kernels ( we call that fines ) and fines = less accuracy ! 5/ another way to reach the cartridges original charge is start with 2 1/2 gn of smokeless then the black powder charge , this also produces less foaling in the barrel ! The best authority on reloading the black powder cartridge > Loading the Black Powder Rifle Cartridge by Paul A Mathews . How To's For The Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Shooter by Paul A Mathews . Forty Years With .45/70 by Paul A Matthews and the Lyman Black Powder Handbook & Loading Manual.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

😂 oh boy…

[@garrettfromsmokeinthewoods]

@sheepsfoot2 so tell me more about this original 45-70 case that holds less powder. Balloon head? Benet primer? Boxer primer? Brass? Tin coating? Bloomfield Gilding Metal? 1898 Frankfort arsenal smokeless? I've been collecting both cartridges and books on 45-70 and own all 6 springfield trapdoor models chambered for 45-70 and find that most all original cases, military or civilan, hold more powder not less than modern cases. If you have a rare case that does. I would definitely like to know about it. I need to add it to my collection

[@brianr555]

@@sheepsfoot2 does it matter if the case is straight wall or bottleneck?? Or can humidity play a part? Can the rotation of the earth have any bearing? Just askin…

[@DadWil]

I had a friend that did an experiment with drop tubes of different lengths to evaluate their effectiveness. His conclusion was anything over 18" (I believe) was overkill. The longest drop tube in his collection was like 48". Thanks for posting this video and reminding me of talking reloading with a dear and departed friend.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Interesting. Thank you

[@spark6185]

best channel on youtube

[@Nehpruett]

A harbor freight arbor press might help you get consistent compression when pressing powder into your cartridges.

[@a12banjo]

In my blackpowder and compressed loads experience, drop tubes do work. The biggest thing is to meter the powder charge slowly into the tube so that each grain has the chance to "bounce"/"swirl" inside the tube. If you just dump it in, there is no bounce/swirl effect when the powder goes down the tube.

[@a12banjo]

This method also works for smokeless when running hot compressed loads and not having to crush the bullet tip when seating the bullet. Ball powdered compressed better than stick powder in my experience with smokeless. Not saying you will magically be able to fit 10 more grains of powder.

[@brandonha]

Sounds like you want to believe that

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Fair enough but when you say they do work, how do you mean? Do you get better accuracy, more consistent velocities?

[@brandonha]

@@Everythingblackpowder a sense of satisfaction that the expensive tube is doing something.

[@kcstott]

Oh and they don’t do anything by themselves for accuracy. Black powder loads in large rifle cases are tuned either with large steps in powder charge or varying the compression of the charge. If the drop tube allows more powder in the case and therefore more compression it can contribute to accuracy. But contributing to accuracy doesn’t mean it got better. It maybe that you made it worse. And that is also contributing to accuracy. People need to understand the questions they are asking.

[@jlyle51]

It is used to place the powder where it belongs. When poring the charge down the barrel the powder sticks to the side walls of the rifling and bore. Then when seating the slug/patched ball or paper patched bullet . whatever projectile is used it seats in the rifling a bit more precise. When shooting the barrel is wiped most every shot. With a concoction of shooters choice. Water soluble oil and water. ( what ever ) this leaves something wet in the bore. The powder will stick to it. The drops tube stops this problem. The powder stays dry and is not physically scrubed down into place. Those old shooters do like the drop tube.

[@40calnut]

In my high walls in both 40-90s.s ,40-82,a drop tube and 1.5f Swiss consistently taking about 8-10 seconds a case to pour the powder charge into the drop tube. I get a big increase in the distance from the top of the powder to the top of the case, and in my experience with my rifles. Less compression on both of these with Swiss and goex. Yields a slightly more accurate cartridge.

[@larryward1082]

I really did like the video great research and I liked it I've been working with black powder since I was 10 years old and I've learned a lot about it and I'm 73 now and still can I make my own black powder

[@jacobmarley4907]

I may be incorrect, as I often am however I thought drop tubes were mostly used by competitors shooting muzzleloaders because all the powder is seated in the breech with no powder sticking to the barrel wall as believed could happen when dropping it into the muzzle with a powder measure.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

I’ve heard that as well but it seems far less common here in the USA

[@Eggomania86]

After watching this, and learning more about the drop tube, I think the purpose of the drop tube is more of a consistency deal than it is about compression. Definitely pretty cool.

[@hercules1073]

I have the two foot drop tubes Lyman used to make for the 55. They may not perform miracles, but they sure do look "old westy" attached and hanging down from the measure...you either have to reach up to operate the handle or bend down to position the case for charging depending on where/how you decide to mount the measure though and it requires operating the throw gradually to vortex... at least in my mind although the internal funnel is supposed to be designed so that the handle can be thrown quickly. They certainly didn't just give them away either! the tubes were as much as a decent measure alone...more than the really cheap ones.

[@453421abcdefg12345]

Like you I have never found that the drop tube gives any noticeable advantage over carefully pouring powder straight in, but I have also tried a 1/4" dia X 36"tube fitted with a vibrating device,(a small electric motor with out of balance flywheel), and even that does not give much advantage, I think the drop tube has a more phycological effect on peoples shooting, and that is where any advantage is. Chris B.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

I completely agree, but like most things people “believe” they can get rather upset when you question it. Thanks Chris

[@tireballastserviceofflorid7771]

I used to shoot BPCR with 45-70. I tried all legal loads wads and lubs. Ended up with SPG lube and Walter vegetable wad and a 28 inch copper drop tube. I also used a hand made die to copmess the powder to the finall depth. Without the drop tube the powedr crunched a lot when compressing it to set the bullet on. With a drop tube the powder just compressed very smooth. It was noticeable at the range. The crushed granuals changed the way the powder burned. There was a slight loss of accuracy at 200 and 300 yards especially. I had reed about drop tubes and muzzle loading how it helped the powder settle from old books and articles from the late 1800s and early 1900s. Used to shoot 100 to 150 rounds a week and i thought it was well worth the effort. Probably not for deer hunting and 75 yards, but for more fine work, definitely.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Fair enough. The longest range we have around here is 300 yards.

[@tireballastserviceofflorid7771]

@@Everythingblackpowder Shot a national match in St. Louis one year. They had 600 years to play with. Our matches was out to 500 yards. Everything had to be just right.

[@chuckaddison5134]

Always interested in seeing theories tested! Thanks.

[@Godwh1sperer]

Another great informative and entertaining video. I've been thinking Re: your videos.. maybe you should make a DVD/downloadable that is a primer for someone new to the BP/muzzleloader hobby, available through gun stores and amazon etc, where a newbie gets good instruction how to be safe and interest them more into deeper aspects of their new hobby. I think theres money in that, and you highlight your channel and have your name gong round while you provide the community a great service by good instruction. Such a DVD will be modular, in installments, so maybe a background project? You have the expertise, the charisma and know how to bring it. If it tanks, it adds to your channel. If you had it, like, in Amazon, I'd buy it.

[@VernonTate-y1i]

Great videos very informative for me I am new at this stuff very well explained 👍🏻🤘🏻

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you. You should try it yourself and see if it makes a difference. I think everyone should decide for themselves

[@Miningpastpresentfuture]

Thank you, that was an interesting and thought provoking video. Yes, I would like to see the .45-70 accuracy comparison. The drop tube was originally pushed by the metallic silhouette long range shooters to enhance accuracy not case capacities. I think over time the sheep crowd ( that is the mindless followers) assumed you had to do it for everything. So going back to the origin of the idea and checking, does it increase accuracy over standard loading techniques and can your vibrator equal or improve on the accuracy improvement (if any) of the drop tube would be very interesting.

[@Bayan1905]

I used to use a drop tube. I don't anymore. What I use now is my Wahl hair trimmer that I just hold up against the side of the loaded case and it settles powder MUCH more efficiently than a drop tube ever did and yes, I can fit 70 grains of FFG in my .45-70 cases that way, and mine are recycled Hornady, Winchester and Remington cases. Willing to bet Buffalo hunters who loaded their own rounds out in camp reloading .45-70 cases if they were running old Trapdoors were not toting around drop tubes everywhere they went if they reloaded spent cases.

[@EmmaTailsOutdoors]

I load 45-70 for my trapdoor springfield all the time and I no longer use my drop tube. I have found for the ranges i shoot it makes no difference in accuracy. It would be interesting to try it for speed. Good video and i love to see black powder myths fall by the way side.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

I came to the same conclusion. The longest range we have is about 300 yards.

[@joeyhardin1288]

Well, I have never seen a Drop Tube. MERRY CHRISTMAS! Thank you. God Bless and stay safe.

[@BlaineNay]

Dunno how many rounds of black-powder rounds I loaded over 40 years of reloading before I even heard about using a drop tube. Somehow, my drop-tube-free ammo turned out just fine. I still don't have a drop tube -- don't see the need.

[@Dani-pe2lt]

Here,in Italy,drop tube Is used only by muzzleloader shooters for charging rifle.not for reloading cartridges...i didn't know this particolar use..

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Interesting. Apparently it’s an American thing.

[@ggwscottie2]

I was always told the purpose of the drop tube was that it better organized powder column resulting in a better burn from the back of the charge to the front. I do use it with muzzleloaders and it helps consistency. I also believe they were a tool when they loaded at the bench or in the field without reloading presses. I've also used to help get room for a card during breech seating for Schuetzen.

[@robmarchion6708]

Always like your videos, like to learn and see all the ideas. My experience with the drop tube is a slower technique of pouring powder and smaller diameter tube. Doesn't necessarily save time and can't vouch for accuracy changes just trying for consistency in loads. To each his own though, keep shooting!

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Fair enough

[@ThomasGellos-e6v]

​@@EverythingblackpowderJake have a wonderful Christmas 🌲✝️

[@matthewtmarfield7861]

"Ages ago", I decided that I needed to make 'Express' loads for an Uberti "Hi-Wall" chambered for the .45-3-1/4" Win. Straight; using a 12" drop-tube, and 125gr GOEX FFg. I learned two things: first, that drop-tubed BP seemed to 'settle itself' into the cartridge case rather well, so well that when tipped upside down, only a few granules of BP fell out; second, I discovered that the charges ( with mag primers ) burned remarkably clean, revealing nothing more than a grayish discoloration in the bore after a five shot string. Since that experience, when using BP, I've used one of my Ideal #5 Powder Measures and the the drop-tube for .45Colt, .44WCF, etc. in the quest for cleaner combustion. Old, contemporary books / periodicals sometimes mention drop-tubes, but also mention tapping the charged case with the powder scoop to "settle the powder" ( I haven't tried this ). Drop-tubes, tapping, compression plugs probably do more for combustion uniformity than anything else, but the last will no doubt help cram more powder into the case, if more powder is what one needs. I like the fact that You use a chronograph! I haven't done NEARLY the volume of BP reloading as You have, and I'm enjoying watching your experiments!

[@matteoorlandi856]

They do work of you compress the charge with a specific die After. Of curse, It works only for straight-wall cases like the 45-70 and so on. That process grants the max ammount of accuracy and consistency of combustion when you are pushing the rifle up to 1000-1100 yards. If you are shooting up to 300 the difference Is neglectable. But at Extreme long range (for BP) you Need to squueze inside your cartridge a lot of Powder and the drop tube Is necessary. Last year i was attending a class in Italy, about BP shooting at long range. Both muzzleloading and cartridges. The presentation was made by a certain hungarian that has a famous KZbin Channel about BP shooting. Well he speaks a fairly good italian but for the technicalityes he used english and since the translator was missing i had to step in and translate for him. Well It was fun and the day After we put into practice the theory and went to hit, quite easily, targets up to 700 yards with BP rifles. Lot of fun, and i Met a lot of good people in the process :)

[@noapologizes2018]

I'm not that familiar with the drop tube. I had always thought they were used on long guns to insure that grains were not stuck on the walls of the barrel and a portion of the powder was smeared along the length of the barrel as the patch was rammed home. Now, I see it is for dropping the powder allowing gravity to compact the powder. Not sure it is worth the trouble.

[@johnharris6589]

That is what I think

[@johnharris6589]

Thank you that makes sense now. @robertstallard7836

[@allanmcdonald3223]

As a muzzleloader shooter, the drop tube would be of more relevance there, rather than with cartridge loads. I think that only target/bench shooters are likely to make use of a drop tube while competing/shooting. If appropriate length, you could deposit your powder load into the breechplug area without losing any, in previous fouling/lube. So your dispensed charge would make it to the bottom of the barrel, and could be double stacked with Semolina or Corn starch, if you happen to use any, without much mixing as you draw the tube up the barrel. The other benefit is having a funnel of sorts at the muzzle where you are dispensing the powder and mostly not spilling any. Competition shooters all pre measure their loads and store them individually, rather than use an adjustable powder measure. When seating the new bullet/patched ball the old fouling can be pushed onto the Semolina filler, no effect on the powder. Happy holidays/shooting

[@bensmith4563]

I thought the thing was for muzzle loading

[@olmanjoe]

The purpose is, as described, for Muzzle loaders ONLY, is to enable the powder charge to be deposited directly to the firing chamber without powder granules being seized or fouled in the rifling from residual lube or soot while traveling from the muzzle to the chamber. This ensures all the measured granules are clean and in place for combustion before the ball and wet patch are rammed into place. This is from what I recall reading from one of the "Old Books" I read back in the early 70's. From what I recall the book was written in the late 1800's maybe?

[@rjoetting7594]

I'm not sure if a drop tube makes much or any difference in a smaller capacity cartridge, but in my 45-120, I do get better consistency. I use a drop slowly trickling 110 grains of Goex ffg, then a compression die, a .030 vegetable fiber wad under a .459 610gr round nose bullet. I'm only compressing a little under 1/4 inches, and the bullet seats perfectly. I'm at work now, or I would pull my crono data, it's been a couple years since I've shot it, Don't remember the velocity (maybe around 1425/1450) I seem to remember a 35 ft/sec spread between shots. I do remember that I didn't like shooting it from a bench rest, quite the thumper. It's not so bad offhand, though. I forgot to add that I wish you a very merry Christmas and a great new year.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@stephengladki5956]

Always look forward to your videos, a very merry Christmas to you sir🌲

[@survivalcomms]

Excellent content. Thanks for sharing !

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@jefff8106]

The diameter of the drop tube has an effect on how it works. My drop tube is made from a piece of aluminum arrow at 24". Also the way the powder is put in it has a huge effect also. Dumping the powder slowly around the edge of the funnel works way better than just dumping it in. I can get 80 grains of Goex 2f in my 40/70SS. It's right to the top but it fits. I backed off to 79 grains because it makes it easier to put a wad on top. I shoot a bore riding 370 grain 20:1 bullet (with two grease grooves exposed) that I had Steve Brooks custom make for me and this load shoots lights out clear out to 1000 yards. As usual an excellent video but I think there's a few more intricacies that could go into this discussion.

[@KarlHeckman]

Use a smaller diameter tube. Best is a tube that fits all the way into the case. You're then filling the case from the bottom. Its the only way I can get my preferred charge into a 22 Hornet case. Vibration works, as does simply tapping the case with a pencil. Drop tube is much quicker and convienent when you're loading 100+ rounds

[@STMwoodturning]

Love it when you use practical means to bust black powder “myths” or traditions”. Keep up the good work 👍🏻

[@johnovanic9560]

I like that high-tech trickle charger you use😂

[@carlschmidt7522]

A drop tube won't squeeze the air out from between the grains like your compression method does. It does settle the grains more uniformly but can't figure out why that would improve accuracy after being shaken about unless it is a slightly compressed load. I use a drop tube on my bench rest muzzleloaders because it gets the powder where I want it without contamination from bore cleaner used between shots. Well done video. Thanks

[@brianr555]

This topic is more to split the variables in half so you can decide for yourself to which side of the road you prefer in the spending of time and effort that it takes to “assemble” each round…if you prefer to spend a day loading 20-30 rounds for that 1/8” accuracy at 100 yds that is your choice. To me, wether using the drop tube or not, the powder still is compressed (even slightly) distorting any method of filling the case. So fill compress repeat is a viable method! i digress, i could be wrong! Excellent presentation!Thank you!

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@rayc.1396]

I'll let you know, but I put 70 grains 3f under a 550 grain .45 PP with a .025 card between the bullet and powder, this bullet is way longer than a 405 and I get reasonable accuracy from it. The secret with the drop tube is to trickle it down the tube, not just dump it. Old timers at matches say they can tell who uses a drop tube and who doesn't by the sound of the report. There are numerous articles about using drop tubes to cram as much BP into a given case with less compression, I'll see if I can locate a couple and let you know.

[@OG-ProfessorFarnsworth]

Bleeping yourself with the pew pew shot sound was a brilliant idea!! 👍

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@PrebleStreetRecords]

This is a stretch, but I think the only thing a drop tube could possibly do is provide more consistent packing of powder, since it’s always falling from the same height. That being said, I personally think they’re 100% snake oil, there are a million other uncontrolled variables when reload BP that would have far more effect.

[@Hazeltonpeakroad]

I knew what you were going to do before I even watched you use the drop tube. If you j just quickly drop the powder through the tube it will fill to a certain level. Take the same amount of powder and trickle the powder taking about 20 seconds to drop all the powder. The powder will be well below where it was when you just poured it quickly. I have been shooting long range buffalo guns for long range shooing. this is black powder only. I use a 28 inch aluminum arrow for my drop tube. With your permission I will send you a short video without any stops in videoing of doing what I just explained.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thanks but keep in mind that I didn’t say a drop tube doesn’t work. I said the use of drop tube will not allow you to fit an extra 16.5gr in a 303 British case.

[@alex7x57]

It was cool to see you use the case tumbler to settle the powder in the .303 case as I've always been curious about using vibration to settle powder. There are small vibrating tables used in chemistry labs for different applications which can be had for under a hundred bucks from Amazon, and I've always wondered if one of those would be useful powder settlement.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

It sure seems to work better than the drop tube

[@chaimafaghet7343]

They're easy enough to build if you've got some junk to pull a small motor out of.

[@MattGoodman-vl7th]

I have no dog in this fight. I've used tubes and not used them. My background is in water and wastewater engineering. Through that lens I see the drop tube and powder settling very similarly to sand settling after backwashing a filter. Gravity and fluid dynamics causes particles to settle by size/density. They also bounce around a pack more evenly (not necessarily more densely, usually less densely in a filter). Can two feet of drop tube do this efficiently? I have no clue. Your vibration theory is absolutely spot on though. I use this all the time to get more power in a case. In my past water filter experiments a filter may settle to 24" depth (example depth. I imagine this as the drop tube powder level). Then you turn forward flow on through the the filter (imagine a little gentle pressure) and it settles an inch or so. Then you tap the filter column and it settles another 4 inches or more. Vibration makes it all pack tighter. I tend to think the drop tube may create a more consistent gradation of powder, and in that way maybe create more consistent burns. I'm with you though that the value for getting more powder in the case is minimal. I'm sure I'll get hate for all this. It is just how my engineering brain sees it. Thanks for adding your actual experience and visual demonstrations to the conversation. That always means more than people like me rambling in some useless text. Cheers!

[@tomcurran8470]

I never thought of using Holy Black in a 303 British. Rapid fire in the SMLE would blind you with the smoke-cool.

[@Sobriety4Reality]

From what I remember about .303 British manufacture the cases were charged prior to being necked down no matter if it was BP or cordite. With the Lee Medford load was a 215 gr. RN cupro/nickel jacket with a compressed charge BP. The BP could have been compressed prior to being necked down.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Correct

[@mrdinme.4768]

Hey Jake, just wanted to say thanks for covering this, I do not reload so this was a question I had. I have seen another guy using a drop tube, also has it in a fixture. Good for him I suppose. But thats why I wondered, thanks again! Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays to you and yours!

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Merry Christmas

[@misiomor]

Buffalo Arms offer powder compression stems working with a regular flaring die body on a standard reloading press.

[@johnkilcer]

I use my lee powder measure. Verboten i know but i had good luck with it.

[@amberyooper]

As far as compressing the powder in the case goes, if you have a solid neck expander plug for the cartridge, try using that to compress the powder in the case. I have a neck expander die that takes several different plugs, and a solid plug that goes in it for compressing the powder in my 43 Spanish cases. I got it from "Track of the Wolf".

[@stacybrown3714]

I would like seeing the 47/70 testing. I think the drop tube is more about consistency before compression. The hottest load is not always the most accurate.

[@thompsonjerry3412]

Gotta love that precision trickler:)

[@kirkmorrison6131]

I have found slowly dropping the powder into the tube helps getting the powder evenly distributed, it doesn't help much if at all with compressing the load. I only use it for 45-70 and larger. 44-40, 45 Colt i just measure.

[@northmanlogging2769]

or... you could just tap the case a couple times and not have to drag around an awkward waste of space... but also, if you are loading cartridges, and are concerned about powder distribution... that pretty much goes away the second you carry them to the range, let alone loading, recoil etc.

[@IWatchedWhat]

I use my tube all the time, a slow pour and I get about 4gr to 5gr of 2f in my 45-70 cases, then I can compress it in the press and then seat my bullet. I never resize my brass for my BPCR, since it is a single shot and I only use it in there with paper patch bullets it works for me.

[@TheHappy2cu]

Thanks for the video.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

You bet

[@MrTacklebury]

My drop tube set-up I use is a bit different. I have the tube attached to the side of my reloading station and at the bottom there's a funnel, and the tube is aligned at the 3 o'clock position. As the powder is slowly dropped into the tube (it is also at a slight angle) the grains tumble down the tube, hit the funnel and "vortex" into the actual case as you had mentioned. I see a significant difference in some cases and I do also use 3f consistently for cased ammunition. I am able to fit almost 8 more grains in my 40-60 Marlin cases with it than without it. I also use it with my .45-70 and .45 Colt loads, but never actually calculated a difference in those. The 40-60 has a bit of taper and seems to like it a lot. I may have to try the vibratory idea though as that seems nice. If you make a ring board and have holes cut to keep your loads from falling, you could do a bunch at once. That'd be heavenly.

[@66smithra]

They do allow more powder in a given space. So you will simply reduce the amount of compression needed for a given charge. That may (or may not) help with accuracy and /or standard deviations.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Yep

[@denisdegamon8224]

The drop tube along with a news print circle over the primer, then drop tube followed by some measured compression before seating the bullet make alot of difference in the lower ES and SD readings. Consistency gies hand and hand with performance especially at lobger distance and create tighter groups. I have proven this over many hundreds of hand loads on targets through a chronograph. Iafter much trial and error. Have come up with a few loads with as low as under 10' fps ES and 3'fps SD's using the above techiques. Accuracy was outstanding. Repeatable, and consistsnt at long ranges out of my two Shiloh Sharps rifles. I was running a good set of vernier tang sites.

[@Rusty_Spiggle-Smith]

i use my dillon powder measure for my 45 colt and 44-40 BP loads. lots of reading online says this is dangerous. I only fill the measure a quarter of the way and never had an issue at all. Throws an accurate charge much faster than I can scoop and weigh.

[@woodrowbrimm2805]

It's also used for Smokeless Cartridge reloading with long Stick type Smokeless Rifle Powders .

[@dnfd737]

I used one on a 50-90 sharps, then I loaded a wood block of 15 cases and just vibrated it down on my media tumbler

[@napluvr4173]

I load 70 grains of 2fg when I load for my 1884 trapdoor. I have to use a powder compression die to compress all of it into a puck before I seat the soft 500 grain bullet on top of it. I bought one for .45 caliber, maybe you could make one out of a .30 caliber brass rod and a seating die so you can use a press for added consistency.

[@RustyJoe]

Long time handloader, but I have yet to load a black powder cartridge so don’t know squat. I had always read about folks using drop tubes to get a little more powder in. 3 more grains sounds pretty significant. Seems to me the difference comes from the grains settling more evenly because they are falling in a more dispersed manner, rather than any idea that velocity is “packing” it.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

3 grains in the smokeless world is significant. Not so significant in the black powder world.

[@RustyJoe]

@@Everythingblackpowder I’ve shot front stuffers enough to understand 3 grains isn’t significant in a velocity sense but it can make a difference in consistency accuracy and sight /POI regulation

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Yep

[@RustyJoe]

@@Everythingblackpowder it also occurs to me that we would be hard pressed to load a front stuffer without a drop tube 😉

[@Everythingblackpowder]

@@RustyJoe you might need a ladder

[@keithmoore5306]

in my experience if your loading the larger rounds like 45-110 50-90 or 50-110 with larger grain powder the tube may let you get another 5 maybe 7 grains in but it's not worth the cost of buying the tube or stuff to make the tube in my book!! and even if you can make the compressed hollow core slugs unless you make them, finding un-necked 303 brit brass cases is going to be fun!!

[@geoffkeahey2651]

The old Parker Hale Whitworth rifles had a drop tube. But these were muzzle loaders. From what I have been able to read, this was to get ALL the powder below the bullet. This led to more consistency since you had no power stuck to the side of the barrel. I am in no way a black powder expert, this is only what I have read. I use a six inch drop tube when measuring large grain max loads in my smokeless powder and it helps as you said, to get that last one or two grains into the cartridge.

[@BR549-2.0]

I shoot black powder silhouette, we all use drop tubes, the tube needs to fit inside the case, it helps the powder to stack, you still have to use a compression die,there isn't anyway around that that is how we get 70grs powder and a 540gr bullet seated

[@cnone3785]

Great ending ... I know few people that use vibrating tooth brush or razors while adding powder into case. Think they said use it at start of filling case. Makes no sense to me how it makes a difference but they say it does.

[@EnglishCountryLife]

Right as the "turn down a brass rod" muppet I like your reasoning...a bit. But I'm not giving up. 😁. So brass rod with small hole drilled dead centre. Rod is then epoxied on a decapping die. Shazam - more compression length but useable on a press...maybe? Also why not compress and vibrate simultaneously? They must make something cylindrical that vibrayes surely? 😇 Merry Christmas Willard

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Good idea! Merry Christmas

[@minigpracing3068]

It seems like building a vibrating platform might be a better choice. Vibration device from a phone and aluminum plate seems like it should work, a few dollars to build. Seeing a bunch of different styles on Amazon, that and an AA battery holder with switch and you should be good to go, and under $15. Since most of those are adhesive, you could probably stick one on a loading tray to get a larger number done while pouring powder.

[@jtcustomknives]

I have tried it and vibrating the case does not work. A drop tube was much more efficient in packing the case.

[@djjaysky9071]

you could make a vibrating table with one of the case trays

[@davefellhoelter1343]

Used mine for direct into barrel, kinda slowed me down? and stoped. But now I am starting to think my fouling could be less if I use my droper again to keep raw powder off lubed or fouled barrel wall on the ride down? I do use a shorter 3/8" droper as I was holding a 3/8 dowel, I realized I could fab a copper dropper to twist, glue, and Form AND FILL my paper Toosie Rolled or Jiont? charges, pull off one charge glue and twist, next end is twisted and glued, ready to go. I get about 3 to 4 charges depenging on charge with my papers.

[@HobbiesHobo]

I have seen those drop tubes & many of my friends have used them in years past. I have no plans of adding one to my gear at this time. Season's Greetings to you, your family & friends!

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thanks Mike

[@usnchief1339]

I never bought the brass tube process. Other than a consistent burn, I just don't see how it would help with accuracy. Great video...thanks!

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@djjaysky9071]

the set up my friend and i came up for 45/70 has a brass rod that goes down the center and a press rod that goes over it to compress the powder charge

[@Cholton222]

Awesome mate. It ain't worth dumping powder 4 ft in the air. 😂

[@jeremyp2295]

When I was making rounds for bpcr the drop tube would get us a more consistent powder compression and less variations in velocity. But we would sift our powder and have consistent kernel size and I would use 15gr of 3f under 50gr 2f touched off with cci magnum primer. Without the drop tube that stupid turkey was a lot harder to consistently whack .

[@loupuleff571]

I knew you were going to do this test lol ! I do use one for black powder cartridge mine is 36" and the end of the drop tube fits directly into the case not sure how the funnel on top of the cartridge effects how the powders settles and aligns in the case ? I have to go back and read the comments but I don't recall anyone saying that you could get the extra 20 grains in the case but if you loading for a cartridge rifle 3 or 5 grains extra may have a impact on your load development my 45-90 actually shoots more accurately with a lower charge of 82 grains of 2f swiss then my fiber wads and grease cookie and so on to get my seating depth correct.

[@noahmercy-mann4323]

I filled a 45-70 case with a drop tube (small diameter tube/slow pour) and measured it, then just poured the same case full using a funnel. I filled them both over the top and used a straight edge to level them off before measuring. There was only 8 grains difference using Goex 3F. I have never thought of a drop tube as a way to get more powder in, but more for those who don't use a compression die. The same charge is settled further down in the case, so those who hand-seat their projectiles can get them further in without as much settling taking place during storage/transport/handling, and folks who are using a press and seating soft projectiles suffer a little less deformation of the bullet bases. Just my 2¢, and worth exactly what you paid for it.😉

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Fair enough

[@greasydot]

I use a drop tube on my ppc to only get another .5 grains of N-133 in the case and if you pour it too fast it doesn't work. In my benchrest game the drop tube has zero effect accuracy, it's to keep the powder from pushing the bullet out because of light neck tension.

[@85waspnest]

I've used a drop tube and found I can get just as much powder in by tapping the base of the case a few times against the table top.

[@Backin_Theday]

I've only ever found drop-tubes helpful on compressed smokeless loads, laying the powder in nicely. I have an old Braun electric toothbrush that makes a good handheld loading vibe. I imagine an electric scibe pen would work well, too.

[@regchapman3683]

Thanks Jake great video ,I was one of the ones suggested the drop tube , so in the words of the Myth Busters { Busted }. I load the 45/120 ,I am told that to seat the round in the case not to crimp, so there is another one for the future I would be most interested to hear your thoughts mate 🤗

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you. I’m going to do some more testing with it

[@forgediron]

The idea of the drop tube is to get consistant powder column depth, not compression. When loading black powder rifle cartriges for instance, you want a very small amount of compression while seating the bullet to the same depth without breaking the powder grains. In other words, bullet right on the powder, no air space and no grain breakage. This keeps the overall length of the cartridge the same. Remember that black powder is pretty inefficient compared to smokeless. Thats why 70 grains versus say 68 grains doesn't change velocity very much. This explains why velocity spreads with good black powder are low. Thats also why loading by volume works so well with black powder. At 500 meters with a 45/70 for instance the drop tube helps. As always it's about consistancy. The low effeciency of black powder actually helps with accuracy.

[@johnfisk811]

I am away from my notes but IIRC whilst the British method was to create a solid rod with a hole along the centre one other army (Austria-Hungary?) used a thinner absolutely solid rod of less diameter than the case interior and loose powder trickled around it so the primer ignited the loose powder and the solid rod burned inwards rather than the British one burning outwards. May be one could insert such a rod into the formed .303” case and trickle loose powder around it? I still have concerned about the unknown pressures however. Arsenal testing used remote firing with devices attached to measure the pressures before letting anyone fire it from the shoulder.

[@missingthe80s58]

Yes the drop tube can be a useful tool. It can also seriously F up your diligent work. You can weigh all your charges just perfectly and use that tube, cause inconsistent settling due to pouring by hand slowly with deviation in pour rate because human hands obviously, resulting in ignition deviations and thus muzzle velocity deviations and thus vertical stringing. I was so proud of my custom made drop tube. My first time using it, I hand fed the carefully weighed powder but no one told me that minute differences in feeding the drop tube would result in powder column density deviations and as a result my paper patched 540gr Elliptical slugs all sat at different over all lengths as they sat on the deviated powder column. Meh? I guess that's ok, the charges are weighed afterall. NOPE. Massive deviation. The trick is uniformity in the pour. Every time. Without fail. Essentially a fast immediate dump and honestly, best for precision muzzleloaders to get away from the inconsistency of slowly dumping from a measure into the muzzle tying to avoid spillage. For my cartridge rifles, I still use a drop tube but it's attached to my orange 50's era Lyman 55 the old farts swear will cause an extinction level explosion with black powder because a marketing egghead lied to them to sell new meters. Yeah it has a baffle now. Homemade drop tube. It deviates about .2 grains +/-. You will never know it, .2 tenths isn't enough energy change to matter with black powder. It throws a perfectly uniform charge and I'm careful not to inadvertently settle the charge. I'll never go back to weighing or drop tubing for black powder cartridge. The meter does just peachy.

[@Entiox]

Many years ago I saw a video of someone testing a drop tube to see if it really made a difference. Their results were that cartridges loaded with the drop tube had less of a spread in velocity. Which really only made a big difference in longer distance shooting. So those long distance silhouette shooters who said say they swear by drop tubes look to be the exact people who should be swearing by them.

[@jerryroesener5937]

I get 70 grain weighed out in a 45-70 without a drop tube. And have no issues. With a copper jacket I get the same accuracy.

[@kirkmorrison6131]

Oh, Merry Christmas and a Happy and Blessed New Year to you and yours

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Same to you!

[@kirkmorrison6131]

@@Everythingblackpowder thank you

[@slabbedasken9422]

Sure we wanna see. Please continue Your vids. I' ve been using droptubes for a while, with that litte rxtra amount extra bp fit in. I' done with that, gjetting old, time is a factor. Like Your vids , You provide practical info. Stan from Norway.

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Thank you

[@curteaton]

You're correct a drop tube uses Gravity. So with that knowledge we can conclude that it would work better on Jupiter for getting higher compaction. However, this posses some real world logistical problems. So the simple solution is to pour it on a centrifuge here on Earth. However, to get the same compressive forces as the press in a centrifuge would likely require it to be either supersonic or the size of Texas. I would conclude that the best way to compact power, is to ummm, compact the powder....as you did. Science. Look into how they make homemade solid rocket propellant grains for casting shapes into the core. Like most things, it's easy to do poorly.

[@davidslone9776]

I trickle powder down though one, into my case. I have not used one, and I have used one. I find that I can actually get a TINY BIT more powder in my case, if I do use the drop tube, than if I don't. I trickle the power into the top of the tube, not just dump it in. That is MY experience, and I can only speak for myself. I also use a similar device in loading my muzzleloading rifles. I want the powder, I drop down the barrel, to mainly end up in the breech area, and not any of it sticking to the sides of the barrel, especially if I have fired the rifle a few times.

[@anthonymartinez4780]

Been watching your channel every other day since I first saw one of your videos randomly, and I have learned something new every time!!! Love your demeanor and attitude, and just love the content of your videos. Once I get the coin, I'm gonna get back into black powder

[@Everythingblackpowder]

Glad to hear it. Thank you

[@chrisbeard9113]

It was told to me, the drop tube works like the barrel of a muzzleloader, and aids in consistency more so than just funneling it in. Consistency between cartridges and muzzleloader of same caliber and barrel length, and also to “vortex” the powder in a consistent manner before tamping or compressing. The idea being that it reduces lower density areas of powder. Personally I haven’t tried to build up that level of consistency. The real value of a drop tube is giving it to your 5 year old to play it like a trumpet while you are reloading

[@stevepenno6369]

Just wondering were drop tubes used in muzzleloading target rifles to prevent the powder from sticking to the bore of the rifle when dumping a load of powder down the muzzle of the rifle then requiring the seating of the projectile to wipe that powder from the bore, so were drop tubes really originally used for this purpose when trying to achieve maximum accuracy . Just a thought from Down Under.

[@jasonrottlaender1721]

Im definitely no blackpowder guru. Just my thinking. To get 70 grains of powder into the 303 case couldn't you leave the primer out and compress the powder wet. Like in the pucking process and then letting them dry. I know the shoulder prevents a good compression. Other than fire forming the 303 into a straight wall case and then reforming the case back with a puck installed. I believe they turn 303 cases into .410 shotshells, could be a different case don't remember. Always fun to watch your tinkering and progress and debunking myths of black powder.

[@KathrynLiz1]

I always thought a drop tube was to keep the charge off the walls of the bore, which might have lube etc. stuck to them, when loading a rifle, to eliminate the possibility of charge contamination...

[@Everythingblackpowder]

I’ve never seen it used that way but I’ve heard from folks in other countries that say that’s what it’s used for. I guess it’s not what us Americans like to use it for.

[@KathrynLiz1]

@@Everythingblackpowder Right..... I am in New Zealand, and a lot of the BP target shooters use one to load.... I suppose there's something to it, but for casual work or hunting we just pour it down the bore. I have heard of drop tubes being used for 'fairy dust' (smokeless) in big mangnum rifle cartridges, but I think the benefit would be difficult to quantify. Pedersoli sells them for the long range target shooters. Maybe at 1000 yards it might make a difference... who knows? 🙂

[@miketyke9451]

I kept expecting the tumbler to set off the primer😮. It seems drop tubes are most relevant in smokeless charging, when it will just overflow the case mouth without the tube. Thus allowing to seat the bullet in only one op. Usually done with very slow powders that haven't hit the pressure ceiling with a full case.

[@453421abcdefg12345]

Overflow the case! When I drop 120 grs of powder in my 577 NE cases there is room for the same volume again, I wish I could find a powder that would give a better fill volume. Chris B.

[@miketyke9451]

577NE, ha! I was thinking 06 class of cartridges or even .308 class, that always could use a bit more of the slow stuff, but it's such a tight squeeze. No experience with elephant guns. Wouldn't mind playing with a .375 H&H though, but not for pachyderms! Thinking cast bullets.

[@453421abcdefg12345]

@@miketyke9451 I do use hard cast bullets in the 577NE and my other large calibre rifles as the solids are so expensive for just plinking, LBT does some very good moulds, but I usually make my own brass moulds. Enjoy your 375. Chris B.

[@andrewsock1608]

I’m not from the past but wouldn’t the drop tube work better if it was on a slight angle so the powder slides down the tube thusly arraigning the powder pellets uniformly ? Try it.