Druid's Wild Shape is useless - One D&D Druid & Paladin Playtest

[@JoeMeng]

They somehow managed to do the exact opposite of what they said they wanted with wildshape. They changed it from a core feature to a debilitating trap.

[@eldolis-4510]

so far druid look like 5e ranger on launch underwelming and unfun

[@acquiescinit]

They also said they want to design classes for the people who like to play those classes. Then they proceeded to take away everything that druid players like about wild shape in an attempt to give it more mass appeal by making it simpler.

[@eldolis-4510]

@Jonny Wiegmann the funny part is I'd argue druid is one of if not thee simplest caster

[@PurpleCyanideTube]

Not sure I would call wild shape a core feature as is. Sure it’s a unique feature but unless you are moon Druid it wouldn’t really be used too often at least in my experience.

[@tenaciousgamer6892]

@@acquiescinit I like playing the druid and prefer the templates just dont like that moondruids cant brawl very well and 90% of the features are taken up by wildshape features most of which were just apart of the wildshape feature by default. They could easily add more nature based features there, like supernatural ability to meld with nature, or grow plants or fungi from nothing. I also think remove healing blossoms and make the 3rd channel nature a subclass feature.

[@backonlazer791]

The biggest problem with the statblocks is that they don't allow for very basic features that are the core of some animals, such as Pack Tactics for wolves or Spider Climb for spiders. You might look like the animal but you will never feel like that animal. You're just a cosplayer at that point.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

This. You're no better off than playing a human, but saying "This character is actually just a bear". We have truly entered the dark timeline, wherein Sir Bearington is a more satisfying experience of being a bear, than playing the class that can notionally become one

[@dokidelta1175]

I agree with you. I get what they were trying to do, which is to make it apparent not just to players but to DMs that reflavoring any animal is perfectly fine. But by trying to classify the entire global ecosystem of earth + some magical fantasy creatures that don't even exist into 3 tiny boxes they're really stripping the druid's wildshape of what made it fun in the first place.

[@andrewpeli9019]

I agree. Honestly, if they just did a little bit better job with balancing monsters on the CR, there wouldn't be a huge need for changing the stat blocks. As it stands, the only CR1 creature that is actually problematic is the brown bear. The rest of the CRs have their pros and cons, the dire wolf is probably the second best, but they are all fine. But giving a level 2 full caster multi-attack (and 34 free hp) is problematic.

[@heatth1474]

Exactly. I like the basic idea of not relying on the Monsters Manual, but if all animals are literally the same mechanically than what is the point? After level 5 if I transform into a horse I will have dark vision and climb speed, but I won't be particularly fast. At that point, am I *really* a horse?

[@heatth1474]

@@andrewpeli9019 To be fair, even balancing the monsters, the idea of a player shopping for forms into the Monster Manual is a problem on itself. It adds a lot of complexity and upkeep and the book is more meant to GMs in the first place. My idea solution would have you have a base stat block and an option you could pick from a list of features that increase with level. So, you can customize the abilities that makes most sense for the animal you are transforming without having to go and pick the literal stat block of the creature.

[@Galbrei]

I love how they looked at Animal of the Land doing as much damage as a Shillelagh and thought "that's too strong for Animal of the Sea! 1d6 only for crocodiles!"

[@andreakimmel6651]

​@@J.capybara Seriously! I played a Triton Druid once, for a Saltmarsh game, and even in 5e we had to house-rules the heck out of it to make any kind of sense.

[@Galbrei]

@@J.capybara Agreed. If they want to make an actually impactful 3rd Animal upgrade gives us "Animal of the Deeps" with a fast burrowing speed and blindsight. That's much more powerful than either swim or fly speeds.

[@Nat-ri3ip]

Shillelagh deal only half as much damage

[@Galbrei]

@@Nat-ri3ip What do you mean? Both do 1d8 + Wis. I suppose Animal of the Land gets Multiattack at lvl 5, but at that point other cantrips scale up as well, so still no reason to ever use this new Wild Shape.

[@Nat-ri3ip]

@@Galbrei Yes, but there is no reason to use Shillelagh either. And if we're realist, there is very little reason to use old wildshape in combat outside of Moon Druid too because the scaling was pretty bad.

[@Ramie0Cat]

the whole thing about wildshape was that you were that creature not some creatures form with some standard stats that slightly change. it lost it flavoring to add in artificial "flavoring". what's a spider without spider climb and web, what's a mole without burrowing, what's a wolf without pack tactics and good smelling? what's a giant bat without blindsight? you change into what you needed and if a form wasn't physically strong that was ok too, it had other options, like the giant frog, bite and swallow. or the giant octopi grappling capability.

[@Xerxes2005]

Yeah, but at higher levels there aren't much beasts to turn into if you want to fight. I would like to play a moon druid with a thematic, let's say savannah. I could turn into a lion, an eagle, an elephant, a zebra, a crocodile. The current design prevents me from doing that. At certain levels, you are forced to turn into a Mammoth or an Elemental. I don't like that. With One D&D, I could at least maintain some "signature" forms. But the forms need buffs and more customization, especially for the Circle of the Moon.

[@emilycreamer1307]

​@@Xerxes2005 if flavor is all that matters in One DnD, then just use the statblock of a mammoth in 5e but describe yourself as a buff elephant or something. You can always use a statblock amd reflavor the exact animal if you talk with your DM about wanting a certain flavor. What DM would say no.

[@emilycreamer1307]

In Wotc's discussion video about the druid, they specifically said "you do not become the animal, the animal is you! So ot scales off your stats now and you don't get specific animals'special features." Which is completely backwards to how, I think, most people think about druids wild shaping.

[@Xerxes2005]

@@emilycreamer1307 Yeah, maybe, but the stat block will not always make sense. And each monster has different traits and actions, which will have to be negotiated with the DM. That's a hassle. The advantage with the system they are proposing is that it makes it easier to play. I believe the idea of the templates is the way to go. But I would base them on their role rather than how they move. Each forms should also have options to customize traits and actions (choose one or two among these).

[@punkasaurian3055]

Definitely suvks the fun out of it.

[@Jaeger_Bishop]

Well, here's how it's gonna be at my table. The rules of One D&D are: "Duly noted, and ignored" - Rechlusiarc Grimaldus.

[@SyperDT]

We're actually thinking of switching to pf2e. 3 action system is cool, so many different ways to build the base classes, and the freedom to build however you want while still being viable. Like a fork wizard or an unarmed fighter wrestler or a tank wildshape druid that takes forever to kill.

[@orionar2461]

​@@SyperDTwarning to you: pf2e is not "5e but better". Do not try and homebrew parts of the system you dont like. The math is very tight and offensive casters are nerfed alot

[@crystallxix1493]

@@orionar2461 definitely a warning that needs to be taken seriously. PF2 is far from perfect, it’s flaws are simply less talked about. Whether it’s better is anyone’s guess

[@Ranziel1]

@@SyperDT Wildshape Druids are not had to kill in pf2e. Polymorphing is generally awful in 2e with very few exceptions.

[@yourface2464]

@@SyperDT yeah PF2 is a drastically better ttrpg than 5e imo. They have this thing called balance, and do a really good job of it. Some people will say it isn't a replacement for 5e. But the setting and themes presented are near identical, with similar races and monsters. It just actually has this thing called rules and customization, unlike 5e.

[@tom_curtis]

You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. Moon druid is my favourite class/subclass combination in 5e. As written, I wouldn't waste my time with the One D&D Druid - or the game, come to that.

[@lukemcfarlane8037]

Agree 👍

[@StrangerForever85]

Hell, I don’t often touch Moon Druid when I roll up and this pisses me off. Following Xanathar’s and Tasha’s, I often pick Shepherd or Stars, but when you literally gut an entire feature, it makes the whole class suffer.

[@kendaar9002]

The more I hear about 1 dnd the more I want to stick to 5e, at best I may homebrew with my group and steal some of the better ideas to put in my 5e game

[@emilycreamer1307]

Let's hope Pact of the Chain is appropriately buffed if they keep these fimd familiar rules

[@ConcerninglyWiseAlligator]

​@@emilycreamer1307Crawford said something akin to: "this new version of Find familiar will allow us to do something special for the Warlock"

[@eewweeppkk]

The more I hear about one dnd the less I'm interested about one dnd.

[@THEPELADOMASTER]

Yup, same here. The more that gets released the less interested I'm in. It seems they even went harder on the contradicting and non-specific language.

[@mkuhnactual]

Same I'm going to be ignoring 1DnD entirely and won't be buying a single product. I've got plenty of 5e products if I want DnD, and there's plenty of other ttrpgs out there.

[@gammalolman580]

Druid has been killed flavor wise at least, since the main flavor thing that made the druid feel like anything but "wizard but nature" was wild shape, and wild shape now is infinitely less powerful or interesting. Even if the spells end up with similar power levels to before, if this druid comes to us like this, it's gonna be pretty much flavor sterile compared to before, which is a massive shame.

[@pokegard]

Isn’t one dnd just flavor sterile stuff tho?

[@orionar2461]

The druid shouldn't be rankier than martials.

[@generalkindle3308]

Most of the time (especially at higher levels) this isn’t the case anyways since most cr 1 creatures have very low health compared to what you will be fighting. It isn’t any more unkillable than any other classes for most of the game.

[@nickm9102]

​@@orionar2461 here is thing, why not? Wizard has Blade singer which is argued to be a better Martial than a Martial class, Cleric has several that make it a better Martial than a Martial. Moon druid tried to fill that role for Druid and did well until about lvl 7 now it is relegated to ranger beast companion as a PC. This change creates the exception to the rule not resolve it.

[@eebo2993]

@@orionar2461 i mean in lower levels it is but even with the moon druid enhanced wildshape your forms scale so badly you might as well never transform at higher levels.the druid is never outtanking the level 16 barbarian unless they give up everything else they can do like casting from their amazing spell list

[@JayskaTeag]

Notice also that "Combat Wild Shape" gives you "Quick Attack" which gives you an Unarmed Strike as a bonus action. Not a Bestial Strike from your Wild Shape stat block, but a normal Unarmed Strike. You're an elephant, hitting the enemy with your trunk and goring them with your tusks, then just casually punch them. You know.. As ya do..

[@anachronity9002]

Honestly, it's such a mess that it hurts. D&D is about to hemorrhage players if they think that this won't confuse the hell out of DMs and new players alike.

[@Nilvail]

That “unarmed strike” can be used as a shove or grapple attack, a means of getting advantage or battlefield control

[@ShiningDarknes]

@@Nilvail Unarmed strike... as an animal... things that don't actually have unarmed strikes because they have natural attacks. It is a mess, don't be an apologist.

[@christianemerson4622]

An Unarmed Strike is an attack with any part of your body

[@procrastinatinggamer]

Honestly the wild shape change feels like someone on the design team said “okay, here’s how Pathfinder 2e does it, now how can we simplify this right down to fit onto a single page?”

[@freezycastform]

DnD 5.5 is taking so many notes from PF2, hah.

[@samflory]

I've played a PF2 druid. It was fun. I got to be a giant Badger, an Eagle, and a Dragon. It was pretty good. Also I never felt like a form was useless or unpowered. This is crap in comparison. Also my damage wasn't gimp because I could fly.

[@jazzy4830]

That's basically how 5th Ed happened as well but with PF 1e. Weirdly I once tried to independently fix the issues I found playing PF and pretty much just got 5e as well (simplify the numbers, remove the content and feature bloat, etc.).

[@ShiningDarknes]

@@jazzy4830 You think 5e was made in response to PF1e. It was made to sweep the travesty of a system that was 4e under the rug. The "issues" you have with PF1e seem to be your own skill issues.

[@jazzy4830]

@@ShiningDarknes Braindead take. I have no skill issue with PF1e it's my preferred game of choice. 4e was clearly poorly received but 5e clearly took note of the greater success of PF as a successor to 3/3.5e, but decided to file off some of the edges, if you think that it builds off of the design changes of 4e you don't know what you're talking about. I appreciate the complexity of pathfinder for buildcrafting purposes but there is a massive issue with bloat (especially with feats) and needless subsystems (like grapple rules) and false choices (skills and features lose relevance if you do not continue investing in them, so after the first point you may as well be locked in for automatic progression). Furthermore while I appreciate PF1e, I have had the better part of a decade to get to grips with it, it is far harder to play with new people or draw them into the hobby.

[@DvirPick]

Another thing is that Druids lose quite a few iconic spells with their primal list: Druids gain: Conjure Volley, Swift Quiver, Wall of Ice, Power Word heal Druids lose: Blight, Confusion, Divination, Fire Shield, Hallucinatory Terrain, Cone of Cold, Contagion, Geas, Planar Binding, Flesh to Stone, Heroes Feast, Mirage Arcane, Plane Shift, Symbol, Antipathy/Sympathy, Feeblemind, Incendiary cloud, Foresight

[@WasabiGoblin]

wtf????????????? why?????????????????????????????????

[@everlastingdragon4520]

They took away F*CKING FORESIGHT?!

[@barcster2003]

I think this is where druids are hit the hardest. Land druid will probably net them great spells but yeah that's rough for moon druids.

[@Hollywood_without_redheads]

Their current changes are based entirely on video games. instead of rpgs. That's why they are changing roles. It is based on big data. rather than a worldview. Because the degree of freedom of video games is far less than that of board games.

[@oakenshadow6763]

They took Heroes Feast?

[@yaminoryuu9558]

another important thing, is that your items now drop OR merge into you... you can't for example keep equiping your insignia of claws or amulet of health in wildshape, unless it drops and you equip it again, wasting actions and turning it impratical in combat.

[@jwell4638]

What about the familiar getting 10 Intelligence? One of the many things that makes Pact of the Chain familiars useful is their ability to reliably remember and follow complex instructions like a human would. Now, find familiar BY DEFAULT has that. That's actually the bigger threat to Rogue here. A smart, tiny, unassuming animal that can be remotely observed or just accurately relay its experiences of some environment it independently explores. Accessible through a background feat, by the way.

[@darmorel549]

They literally gave anyone with this spell something as smart as the average adult human that looks like a bird. So, a slightly smarter crow.

[@AnaseSkyrider]

Also the artificer. Homunculus Servant has 10 INT.

[@dannybeane2069]

Heck, a good portion of the time the familiar will have a HIGHER intelligence then the rouge.

[@samflory]

Which makes nerfing tiny wild shape even funnier. You could shift into a tiny animal for 10 minutes to risk your life scouting. Or send in an unkillable scout that lasts until you long rest, and if taken out returns in one hour.

[@ShiningDarknes]

@@darmorel549 Smarter than the average adult, you have to remember 8 is average according to 5e since that is where all your stats start in point-buy (always hated this).

[@glacialgrizzly8487]

Another thing about this version of wildshape is that you don't get any of the features that certain beast forms have anymore. You can't swallow creatures or jump extra far as a giant toad, you can't shoot webs as a giant spider, you can't poison enemies as a snake. These new generic wildshape stats have none of that. Plus you can't benefit from any class features while in wildshape. Goodbye raging bear

[@emilycreamer1307]

But "flavor is freeeeee"

[@barcster2003]

That's what i think they need to fix especially for moon druids.

[@Hollywood_without_redheads]

@@barcster2003 They also remove other nature spells from druids. The current Druids completely lack the natural attributes of the past.

[@morphtroniccelfon1]

On the note about players not liking the wild shape features when leveling is that not everyone is going to use wild shape, so having a level up just give you the flying stat block and nothing else is just a dead level. It is why later circles gave alt uses for your wild shape so it's not a dead resource.

[@yourface2464]

If you're playing druid and not using wild shape, why are you playing druid at all? That's why things like nature cleric exist.

[@nikolaplese9490]

​@@yourface2464 maybe I would like to be a druid that controls plants abd nature, or uses elements or focuses on weather. While that can be done in subclasses, and I hope it is, it is still annoying that the base druid is still seen as a shapeshifter

[@yourface2464]

@@nikolaplese9490 tempest and nature cleric say hi Druid *is* the shape shifter class. And it honestly should still be a cleric subclass.

[@TheFurrLord]

@@yourface2464 that just makes me feel those clerics were a mistake and moving into territory they shouldn't have. Nature wizard is druid.

[@yourface2464]

@@TheFurrLord what? You do realize that druid started as a cleric subclass, right?

[@patrickhannon2694]

If you lose all your features, you lose your background and feats, both of which are ASIs. You literally become weaker when you Wildshape 😂

[@LucanVaris]

Technically, Wild Shape does have _one_ particular use: As an unbeatable Disguise Kit. After all, you're no longer restricted to transforming into Beasts. Now, you can transform into "Terrestrial Animals." Humans, as everyone else knows, are part of the animal kingdom, and it's somewhat safe to assume that most playable races are likewise part of said kingdom. As such, just about every playable race (and any royal NPCs who may or may not be a part of said race) are fair game. Just pick someone you wanna disguise as, then Wild Shape for a few hours into them. It's not your usual "disguise," soooo....

[@jeffersonian000]

That’s fair. Not something I noticed.

[@passedjudgements4729]

20 bucks says that they'll edit things again and remove this from druid options

[@LucanVaris]

@@passedjudgements4729 Hopefully they give Druids an actual Wild Shape option, if they do.

[@ReshyShira]

@@LucanVaris Hahaha no, druids aren't allowed to be good after 3.5e made them the 4th best class after Artificer, Archivist, and Wizard.

[@LucanVaris]

@@ReshyShira Don't forget about them also being good in 5e.

[@quincallahan6323]

I always found how common resistant to non-magical damage was to be really odd. For the most part, it always felt like they were just afraid to give broad resistance to physical damage types to me.

[@woomod2445]

Resistant to non-magical damage is in my from AD&D mind, how you answer the question "okay but why do you not just solve this with a few hundred archers?" IF something isn't immune to non-magical damage (like say ancient dragons) then a few hundred archers is ALWAYS a more effective solution from a king than even lvl20 PCs. It's "Protection from mooks".

[@aurtosebaelheim5942]

@@woomod2445 Not arguing with the idea, but Ancient Dragons are a really bad example. Assuming a straight fight with a red dragon, archers have maybe 3 of turns trying to hit AC 22 with disadvantage before the dragon enters Frightful Presence range and 95% of those archers run away. Assuming we're using Scouts rather than Commoners, you're getting ~2 hits per turn per 100 archers. But a dragon has the ability to dictate the terms of engagement. It could plummet from above, cut its fall short at the last second and dump a frightful presence right in the middle of an army without spending a single turn in longbow range. It also has abnormally good Darkvision, attacking on a fully overcast night it need only take out the light sources and it's already won. It's also very fast, so unless you have those hundreds of archers on standby at all times it's going to be able to make your life hell with hit-and-run attacks. To kill a dragon you need to trap it in a losing fight and no number of archers can do that. That's not even accounting for real-world considerations like mass routs, morale in general or the logistics of assembling and outfitting an army. It isn't considering dragons as intelligent political agents who might deliberately stoke class warfare for personal gain. IMO, resistance to nonmagical is a kneejerk response to bounded accuracy and monster simplification to maintain setting cohesion. Resistance being a percentage rather than flat reduction means that it doesn't work particularly well though, a Balor does comparatively awfully against a few hundred archers despite having resistance to nonmagical. Balors simply can't get enemies out of the fight fast enough. In 3.5e, a Balor (or dragon for that matter) would have had AC that commoners couldn't touch and a whole suite of spells to quickly clear crowds.

[@woomod2445]

@@aurtosebaelheim5942 Well yes resistance isn't very good, just blanket immunity is what i'm used to from AD&D. A balors +5 to hit on a 10hd monster wasn't something i didn't expect the fighter to have, but the henchmen ehhhhh quite likely. It's a mechanic that was in every edition with bounded AC. So I wouldn't call that a kneejerk reaction. Also from a design perspective I'm absolutely certain since they designed D&D5e with no magic items and no feats, it was entirely meant to nerf fighters. Just from my AD&D brain I saw mook resistance to prevent using a bajillion archers. (Would be funny to bring out a full horde of mongolians in 5e.)

[@Kirbyfemur1]

The best thing about the changes, it eliminates the asinine "oh well have you seen the creature" problem when you want to wild shape. But got they really don't want anything to cross class into druid now huh, if they didn't lose all of their abilities it might be okay, but darn, no more barbarian druid, or fighter druids. Are they trying to outright get rid of any multi-classing, cause that's how a lot of the changes feel.

[@aprinnyonbreak1290]

Yeah I get that vibe, too. As someone that always likes making cross class abominations, viability be damned, it's sad to see things built to explicitly not play together

[@verishen6175]

@@aprinnyonbreak1290 This is likely the cause of Sorcadin being absolutely Busted. and they're trying to prevent that from happening again. The issue is and it's a rule for just about anything. If you Nerf/Remove whatever is OP or Broken something els will simply take it's place.

[@jeffersonian000]

It’s even worse than that. If you Wildshape, you lose most of your Druid features, and if you don’t Wildshape, you ignore the rest of your Druid features. It’s like they want you to play two completely different classes at the same time, and both suck.

[@wesleywyndam-pryce5305]

that was never a problem though. players need to whine less about mild restrictions.

[@BaronSterling]

​@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 That absolutely was a problem for some tables, because the DM could limit the forms available to the Druid based on what Beast-type creatures they put in their encounters. You need to learn to not speak for other people.

[@rolay7730]

If they are going to use a generic stat block, they should have an expanding list of buffs to choose from, similar to eldrich invocations. This way, they could keep all the features underwhelming and let players choose if the healing or wild shape should be stronger. Also, I love that even find familiar has an up-cast option. But whenever I see a spell without an upcast option, I wonder what it could be. Plus, if you are willing to cast a level 9 spell, its AC is 21. It isn't necessarily useful, but it would be really funny to have it use the help action every turn and watch as the boss wastes attacks on it. Even if it never gets used, I just want the option to do something stupid like that with a high-level spell.

[@barcster2003]

I would say the wild shape for moon is the thing that should be stronger.

[@VelociraptorsOfSkyrim]

Agreed. If they're gonna do a generic statblock, they should have traits that you can choose to apply to the Statblock. For example, things like Spider-Climb, Pack Tactics, Swallow, etc

[@Bloodfencer1990]

The changes to Wild Shape and animal companions feel like the designers looked at Pathfinder 2e and decided to copy Paizo's homework, but badly. In PF2e Wild Shape is a Focus Spell, meaning you can regain a use by sitting down for 10 minutes after a fight, this is mirrored by One DnD's recharge of one use after a short rest. In PF2e Wild Shape starts off as purely a utility spell, as at level 1 you can only gain access to Pest Form, which turns you into a tiny animal. This gives you a bonus to stealth so you can use it for scouting an area. At level 3 you get access to Animal Form which is actually really decent if you want to have a melee option for a druid who didn't icnrease their Strength or Dexterity.

[@datonkallandor8687]

Yup and while PF2 does only give you generic stats, it gives you a selection of generic stats with the most common balanced options that you can then reflavor. Just Animal Form, the basic level 2 spell, already gives you Ape, Bear, Bull, Canine, Cat, Deer, Frog, Shark and Snake - so you have options for climbing, amphibious, aquatic, poison and reach. And of course you can reflavor any of those to any appropriate other animal you can think of.

[@freezycastform]

Yes, this is what it feels like. They saw PF2 doing very well for itself and thought 'Lets try that'. And then balanced everything, but badly.

[@sodasaintcommentaries4054]

And for whatever reason, WoTC seems to think a tiny form needs to be locked behind LEVEL ELEVEN. You know, because all dragons DREAD the form of a freaking chipmunk!

[@Bloodfencer1990]

@@sodasaintcommentaries4054 Funny enough in PF2e, at first level you can ONLY wildshape into tiny creatures. Gives a huge bonus to Stealth but other than that nothing so it's pure utility.

[@webbowser8834]

It honestly feels more like PF 1E Wild Shape, but even more disappointing. Kinda curious if there's any "wild enchanted armor" equivalent in DND 0e

[@Skillshot360s]

*Moon Druid:* _exists_ *WOTC:* Sorry guys. Y’all are having too much fun. *Also WOTC:* Why aren’t players more excited for our content?

[@undeadarcher465]

I absolutely love druids in 5e, literally favorite class, just the flavor, fun, and power all in one class, but not im gonna be honest, i wont play druid in one dnd if this happens, which would sucks, but its not like 5e is gone, so im not mad

[@oakenshadow6763]

There also used to be a reason to choose either an owl or a hawk. Owls were slower, but could see in the dark. Hawks were fast, but could not see in the dark. There was a reason to choose certain forms. This mattered a lot to both Druids and Familiars.

[@BenHameen33]

The following is a list of changes that OneDnD has made that I like: Exhaustion rules

[@archmagemc3561]

They did the wildshape charge out of laziness. its easier to make a VTT using generic stat blocks like this instead of giving players a list of stuff to turn into. Most practical explanation for this abysmal design. And chatbot AIs can handle a single stat block with a bit of math than the entire monster manual for players.

[@alexllenas4607]

On a VTT is the same work and the amount of coding to give a player a monster statblock of a PHB statblock. This only makes it more simple for the players and DMs, not the machine. I would say it's more "difficult" to the machine this statblocks because they aren't static

[@grantgarbour]

Honestly, when my player's are too lazy to even look up their summoned creature's stat blocks I doubt most casual players want to comb through all the monster's stat blocks. I think the templates need refinement

[@nicolasreinaldet732]

I am not a AI expert but I know my 2 or 3 cents around they and this is to the best of my knowledge just not true. AI's are extremely good at handling large databases becase thosse things are objective, basicaly every other aspect of D&D is at least 1000 times harder for a AI to grasp than to look up a large database of animal sheets. It is like AI's totaly dominate chess and other games for years but just recently they have been able to write cohesive text.

[@Micah_4D]

Just to reiterate, 1DnD supposedly being backward compatible falls apart as a design goal wherever they implement subclass uniformity across all classes; that is, getting subclass at L3 for all classes. What will become of the the subclasses presented in 5e books?

[@zombiemanjosh]

"... but it quickly becomes apparent that this was not thought through too much..." Pretty much summarizes all of One D&D.

[@Methadron]

Actually, while druids aren't really supposed to wear metal armor, in 5e they can technically do it. Nothing from a mechanical standpoint stops them from doing this. This is just in the flavor text of the PHB, iirc.

[@CaitSith87]

They explode when they were armor based on sage advice. :)

[@colddorito]

"Proficiencies Armor: Light armor, Medium armor, Shields (druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal)" No. That is not flavor text. If it were flavor text they would have worded it "(druids typically avoid wearing armor or using shields made of metal)"

[@SyperDT]

It's just a placeholder from when druids were suppose to like celtic warriors or something. Metal is a part of nature, so it makes no sense to my group, ergo I'm wearing scale mail right now.

[@The_Crimson_Witch]

I wish this were the case. "Proficiencies Armor: Light armor, medium armor, shields (druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal)" It is stated next to the armor proficiencies, intended to literally stop you from wearing metal armor.

[@mikepotter851]

@@SyperDT It used to be that druids got their powers directly from fey creatures and all fey creatures were made wildly sick by all metal, not just cold iron. They could wield metal weapons, because it's easy to sheath a sword. Not so much a suit of armor. Once the cold iron change was made they also should have adjusted the druid, but I think the flavor was already set in Gygax's head so it stuck in all books thereafter.

[@Dave004]

Find Familiar no longer having Flyby seems like a big thing gone as well. So chances of your Familiar dying in combat after giving you the Help action is now very likely.

[@ardet7383]

Thats probably on purpose. I dont think familiar advantage in combat was what Familiars where intended for

[@chrisvossler8795]

Two changes that I would make to wildshape in the UA: 1. When you wildshape, you gain temp HP equal to 6 times your druid level (land form), 5 times your druid level (aquatic form), or 4 times your druid level (sky form). As a large creature, you gain additional temp HP equal to your WIS modifier times your druid level. (The last part might need some nerf to balance it - maybe your AC only adds 1/2 your WIS modifier, rounded up?). Once the temp HP is gone, you must expend another use of Channel Nature to remain transformed, or else you revert to your normal form. 2. Each wildshape template includes a list of 3-6 additional features tailored to that type of beast: Prehensile tail, Pack tactics, Trampling charge, Web spinner, Poison spray, etc. (Land); Tentacle, Frenzy, Grappling bite, etc. (Water); Echolocation/Blindsight, Sting, Mimicry, etc. (Air). Each time you wildshape, you can choose one additional feature which can be used either in place of your action or as a bonus action (depending on the feature). Moon Druids would then be able to choose one additional feature when they wildshape.

[@bakersbread104]

using the additional features It would also be cool for like moon druid or just a high level druid ability to be able to pick and choose abilities from land, sea, and air and combine them into a chimera creature.

[@orionar2461]

No temp hp. The druid shouldn't tank better than martials

[@kylekid10]

@@orionar2461 if their AC remains 15 and damage remains the same at later levels they absolutely do NOT out tank marshals even with these changes.

[@sparklingwater925]

I think druids shouldn't get that much temp hp that make them way too good at tanking. I think just level+WIS should be enough.

[@chrisvossler8795]

@@orionar2461 Their AC is still maxing out at 15, and any time they get hit they will have to make a concentration check (if they're concentrating on a spell). Plus, temp HP don't stack, so they can't actually heal the wildshape form. And once the temp HP are gone, they revert to their normal form. I don't see that as tanking better than martial classes (though we need to see the UA for martial classes to know that for sure). I just see it as making wildshape useful in combat; at the moment it isn't particularly useful in combat, and it's absolutely useless for exploration. The most exciting thing you can do is to grapple with your bonus action as a Moon Druid. What would you suggest instead?

[@speedy3749]

One of the most fun features of the druid for my players was searching for new animal forms that give them new abilities or senses. (We played with a houserule that you actually have to study/observe the animal). That versatility and learning new forms was the main point of the whole class.

[@jondawson7911]

"I acknowledge that the council has made a decision. But given that it's a stupid ass decision, I've elected to ignore it."

[@pedrostormrage]

2:37 The aquatic/aerial forms were probably delayed to make sure the druid gets something new at every level (this seems to be a general design principle in One D&D) 9:56 The "Abjuration Spells" feature (from Combat Wild Shape) was only meant to replace the ability to spend spell slots to regain HP while wild shaped (Jeremy Crawford has discussed that design intention), so the fact they can now also cast spells that have nothing to do with healing (and also being able to heal other people) is (kind of) a boost (I really like you can now cast Dispel Magic in wild shape - against some kind of debuff or ongoing spell effect -, and still have a Bonus Action for an Unarmed Strike). That being said, the 5e Moon Druid had better "selfish healing economy" (they got a scalable 1d8 per spell slot level used, and still had an Action free for a Multiattack). I think it's a fair trade, though (1 abjuration spell + 1 attack vs. selfish healing + multiattack).

[@niedude]

I think it's more than fair. Lvl 3 Moon druids can now cast healing work while wild shaped, how is that not a huge buff?

[@Aichi1138]

"Something new at every level" Over all bad design philosophy. Just limiting your tool set to deal with problems till levels when most games never approach. It would be way Way better if the full tool set of a class is achieved by level 10 with the final 10 levels making those tools better

[@hiygamer]

@@niedude Because there isn't much point in wild shaping anymore. It doesn't grant any boosts to your defenses or much of a boost if any to your damage output. Yeah you can use healing word while wild shaped, but you can also use it while in your base form, along with all of your other spells and features.

[@niedude]

@@hiygamer oh boo hoo now the druid doesn't have 3 whole hp bars, that's so sad

[@hiygamer]

​@@niedude Moon druids really were not as busted as some people make them out to be. They're strong at low level, but as you reach high level play, their combat potential drops off a lot. I'm not looking for them to be broken. I'd just like there to be a reason to use it. As is, this version cuts your AC, strips you of your other features, limits you to melee range, doesn't give you any bonus HP, and doesn't give any of the situational utility the various animal forms gave like a spider's climbing, elk's charge, octopus's grappling, etc. In exchange, you get a marginal damage buff over spamming cantrips.

[@firedragon9066]

this is why One D&D is just for patching trash rules in 5E like some casters not getting Cantrips, Duel Wielding, Unarmed strikes, Starting equipment and background starting gear so far the rest is binnable

[@QCreyton]

Why is healing in the abjuration school now... It's drifting even farther away from where it belongs...

[@Twylerable]

They should just make a new class tbh. Make a shifter like pathfinder, someone that trades most of their druid spell capabilities for mastery of their form. Martial focus with abilities that align with that. Then they could make the druid much more focused on spell casting and its nature theme, probably make wildshape utility only.

[@JGregory32]

I think WoTC has been slowly stripping complexity out of DnD for a while now, I just pulled out my old 3.5 books (probably the height of complex DnD) and examined them. The classes were all different and had different roles. In 5e you can build any class to take any role, I currently play a 5e rogue/ranger who constantly out damages our parties dedicated melee characters. That should not possible, that character combination should be a dedicated archer but RAW I can melee with the best. I've seen builds for melee clerics, melee wizards, melee druids, and also casting rogues, casting rangers, etc etc. I think we need to go back to an era where classes were more defined, I think it encouraged people to be more creative with their roles and characters.

[@TheKarishi]

The full-on hp-of-the-animal damage buffer was always an issue that needed to go away, but I definitely wish they'd designed combat wild shape as an explicit buff; Like, literally just give you a bite that matches expected weapon damage and then allow a claws attack on top of it for controlled extra damage, keep your current AC, and maybe give you Fast Healing or some amount of level-scaling temp hp. Making it explicitly always a buff would give you leverage on Moon Druid's total power so you could avoid setting it too high or too low.

[@TheGreyKami]

I don't think the HP buff was even that great, especially since you are locked into low CR beasts. Yes, an extra forty health total is nice, but it's at the cost of not doing any spells or using weapons during this health boost. And that's only if the druid is a frontline tank, otherwise wild shape has too many downsides and no upside

[@inventor121]

@@TheGreyKami Not to mention that you can't cast spells while in Wildshape. That alone is a huge detriment to your capabilities.

[@throwabrick]

I'm changing it to give the Druid 1d6 temp HP per level of Druid for Wildshape, I think that mostly fixes it. Reduced AC makes sense but does sting for the Druid who has become the default tank in our group. And the bonus Unarmed Strike for Moon Druid is cool.

[@theresnoracelikegnome]

WotC: “We don’t understand why nobody wants to play a Druid, everyone likes turning into animals or casting spells!” Players: “Sweet, I can turn into an animal and cast spells!?” WotC: “WE SAID ‘OR’, NOT ‘AND’!”

[@AnaseSkyrider]

A minor thing: as worded, you ALWAYS have access to Quick Attack as a moon druid. Which is cute, if you had like a level of Fighter or Monk for upgraded unarmed strikes. Wouldn't be useful WHILE wildshaped, but there it is.

[@niedude]

There's a lot of bad interpretations of intentionally loose wording in this video and it shows just how much bad faith is in this review, tbh.

[@AnaseSkyrider]

@@niedude A feature like Wildshape should not be loosely worded.

[@baldrtheboulder8927]

​@niedude how about they don't word everything so badly it needs to be constantly debated by the community?

[@Brutalyte616]

This version of Wildshape reeks of beta or even alpha testing. My guess is that this current Wildshape form is a rough outline for a personal animal form that all Druids will have and there will be further updates to retool the old Wildshape system. Also, note how the stat block says that your Strength and Dexterity scores are now equal to your Wisdom score. So a Wildshape Druid with 20 Wisdom now has 20 Strength and Dexterity as well, which could make for some strong multiclass options if, say, the Barbarian or Monk have class features that are compatible with the Wildshape form. The prospect of a Kung Fu Druid is kind of terrifying actually...

[@targetdreamer257]

That’d be nice but as is multi classing does absolutely nothing. You lose ALL ABILITIES or FEATURES . Once you wild shape no unarmed defense, no rage, no scaling unarmed attacks, no increased speed, that all gets turned off.

[@chrismanuel9768]

Wildshape cannot work with multiclas explicitly. You lose all abilities. They're gone.

[@MrSilentfire11]

You lose all abilitys and features. You cannot multiclass barbarian druid and rage anymore

[@crowsenpai5625]

Simple is not always better. The funnest thing about Wildshape was brainstorming to find out the BEST possible animal you can turn into for the situation. The fact it was so varied kept it fresh and interesting. And this whole new “you can flavor it however you want, but it needs this generic ass stat spread.” More often than no ruins the immersion your “free” to impose. For example say your a Drow Druid, so fitting character you chose you wildshapes to be spider themed, “I turn into a giant spider… only I don’t have spiderclimb…or a poison bite…or any from of webs… how the fuck am I a spider?” Wildshape rewarded creativity, but now an entire party of Druids can Wildshape into “”different animals”” but all have the same exact abilities.

[@crowsenpai5625]

It’s also hilarious now that a wildshaped Druid will lose most mirror matches if they shape into the “same animal” because the real one will have abilities that the Druid won’t. DM “you’re attacked by Panthers. Roll initiative.” Druid “I Wildshape also into a Panther.” DM “one of the panthers runs up and performs a pounce attack, roll a strength save to avoid going prone.” Druid (makes it, slays that panther and charges another) “two can play that game, I make a pounce attack on panther 2!” DM “oh, you can’t. You don’t have a pounce attack.” Druid “what, but the other could.” DM “yeah, panthers have a pounce attack.” Druid “I’m a panther!” DM “yeah, you are a panther, flavor wise, but YOU don’t have a pounce. Only REAL panthers have a pounce attack.” Druid “only REAL panthers!? THEN WHAT AM I?” DM “honestly, I don’t even know anymore.”

[@thecactusman17]

One thing I'd do to offset wild shape being a massive debuff: When you use the Wild Shape feature roll a number of d8s equal to your Druid class level and add your Wisdom modifier to the result. You gain that much temporary HP while in your Wild Shape form. Then add a clause to Alternating Forms so that players can preserve remaining temporary HP when they change back and forth

[@vittoriosavian9964]

And then you roll 1 for every dice and you have 26/27 hp at lvl 20, with +6/7, or you roll 8 in evey roll and you have 167 life. Too much rng tbh

[@thecactusman17]

@@vittoriosavian9964 167 bonus HP at level 20 with an AC of maybe 16 is hardly unbalanced. In fact it actually might not be sturdy enough. And I'm pretty sure that any DM who sees a player Yahtzee 20 d8s that low is going to be pretty aware that maybe insta-gibbing the PC isn't a fun gameplay experience for anybody.

[@gbprime2353]

A burrower that cannot burrow, a monkey or spider that cannot climb, a dog that cannot smell, a bat that cannot find its way in the dark... genius. Flavorless useless garbage that will keep us playing Pathfinder.

[@32Loveless50]

hmm and AC 10+wis mod. so it does not follow your level, meaning you will be an easy target at higher levels :( also using your HP, menig you might be more squishy when wildshaping, making it a hazard using wildshape :( and the delay for swimming and flying forms. at 5th level most casters can cast fly, so why not be able to use flying forms from then on and swimming from lvl 3 or so.

[@kobitz9001]

Up the AC to 13 + Wisdom, give them PB or Druid Level + WIS temp HP when they wild shape. Bam I fixed it. 11:55 YEEEESSSSS! I've been saying this about thousand forms for ages! It would be a perfectly good feature if they made alter self not take concentration. Either the spell itself or just when it's cast using that feature.

[@CommissarMitch]

Nature's aid is just the old Lay On Hands but with a range. I do appreciate having long range healing to make a dude jump back up on their feet without spending a spell slot, but there could be so much more.

[@remyb6854]

No class should have a baseline healing power that uses other class resources. It forces them into a healer role whether they wanted to be one or not. The social pressure of having an injured/dying party member will FORCE you to use it even if that had nothing to do with your vision of the character. Now, healing *options?* Fantastic. But don't force people to play healers.

[@niedude]

@@remyb6854 It absolutely does not force them into a healer role anymore than you carrying health potions does This is such an asinine and reductive reading of the situation it's like you people are looking for reasons to get mad

[@remyb6854]

@@niedude Carrying healing potions is a choice, surprise. ... and doesn't use your class resources! Double surprise!!

[@samflory]

It would be nice ability if it scaled. It's fine at low levels, but healing 5d4 at level 10-20??? Give it more healing, cure disease/poison/etc, use it to maintain concentration...

[@niedude]

@@samflory its a ranged bonus action spell-slot-less healing. It's basically a mass healing word, and you want to convince me its not good enough? Pack Tactics fans know nothing about this game confirmed

[@RobertCharlesW]

The best rule changes the D&D ever has been Pathfinder.

[@MilieuGames]

I think it's interesting to see these changes. I think it gives us real insight into how different the game is played by WotCs people.

[@eldolis-4510]

you assume they play the game any level over 5 if at all id bet there no dice rolls just you hit congrats its dead good for you

[@Reac2]

I really really like this thumbnail, it makes me very happy. Thank you

[@little_isalina]

Shillelagh now the superior melee option to wild shape. I guess you get multiattack at level 5 or something but with a wopping max AC of 15 do you really wanna get close? I suppose with only light armor your normal form's AC isnt gonna be great either. I think it's a good idea generally, that druids cant just use wild shape to be better at melee than fighters and barbarians, better at stealth and scouting than rogues and also be a full spellcaster at all other times, but it just does nothing now.

[@VeteranVandal]

One dnd, so far, as predicted, has been let's remove fun and not fix anything.

[@wojciechniemirski1782]

Isnt Healing Blossom a lot like Mass Healing Word? You don't really use it to make hp buffer, but to get up multiple allies dropped to 0hp

[@niedude]

Exactly, but you see if we frame it like that then everyone will see it's actually a very good thing and then we'd have nothing to be mad about...

[@HereticalKitsune]

"The apperance has you choose has no effect on the form's capabilities" and "your ability to handle objects is determined by the form's limbs" sound like contradictions to me.

[@andrewerath5585]

So far One DnD is just making me want to stick with 5e. There really hasn't been anything that I thought was better so far

[@tenaciousgamer6892]

I am going to argue, the rogue while a great scout they are so much more then scout and can do things other scouts just can't do or are very unlikely to pull off successfully. Someone in wildshape or a familar would have a very hard time pulling off due to low proficiency. Like going into the enemy fortress set up traps, disable traps and any number of useful things the party may or may not be thinking about when they want to scout a dangerous location.

[@VolariGaming]

One thing i'll add, WildShape is now disabled by being incapacitated, meaning it's not even a good tool to run away from an encounter and is super-risky when flying/diving

[@michalgrugel2326]

Can u make more Pathfinder 2 material?

[@BLOODKINGbro]

Sheleighleigh was my main go to. Nothing beats ripping up a 2x4 floorboard and turning it into a magical weapon.

[@daltigoth3970]

As is often the case when things are changed in a game, sometimes you need to recalibrate to what the new version is INTENDED to do, and not just do a straight comparison to what it WAS doing. I wouldn't go so far as to say this version of Wild Shape is useless, just that it is significantly less useful than it was before at early levels, while becoming more functional and relevant at later levels for things other than scouting. With your STR & DEX changing to match your WIS when you shift, you can focus on WIS and CON for your primary stats, which means you'll have more HP than you would otherwise have if you also tried to boost DEX. However, with this version of Wild Shape you'll have a higher chance to hit with melee attacks than your humanoid form would and the damage on melee attacks is better on average than the damage on cantrips (flat 1d10 from cantrip averages 5.5 versus 1d8+3 which averages 7.5), and with multiattack at 5th level that disparity in average damage per round would increase (2d8+8 for an average of 17 vs 2d10 for an average of 11). The damage output doesn't balance out until the next cantrip damage increase at level 11. I think Alternating Forms would make this version of Wild Shape more useful if it came in earlier. That would allow you to transform into a creature and serve as a mount for a melee party member, while also adding in your own attacks from the beast form, then switch back to your humanoid form when you need to cast a spell. I agree that delaying the sea form to 7th level is pretty lame. Water sections aren't very common in the first place, and by 7th level most casters have other ways of dealing with water when it does come into play, so its really just taking something away from the class for no good reason (as opposed to the tiny form scouting that overshadowed the rogues, rangers and monks who should be good scouts). The Moon Druid's combat wild shape feature specifically works while wild shaped, which overrules the generic "you can't use other features" bit from the regular wild shape. So the wording is technically fine as is since "specific beats general" according to the rules, but it could be stated differently to avoid confusion. The ability to cast abjuration spells while wild shaped isn't limited to druid spells, and the Wild Shape stat block is based off your stats and HP, not your druid level, so if you're good with just the land form, there could be some interesting multi-class potential there. Regardless, pick up Blade Ward and Resistance as cantrips (both are reactions in One D&D and are abjuration spells) and you're not nearly as squishy. Throw on some barding for more AC or cast Mage Armor or Shield of Faith (from a multiclass dip) before shifting and you've got a decent front-line fighter that can fall back into a caster role as needed.

[@DemonicEngineer]

As someone who introduces D&D to a lot of new players, i think it's good to have the Subclass at level 3, because when you tell a person who's already overwhelmed by a bunch of Races and a bunch of Classes, I feel bad for telling them to then pick a Subclass when they haven't even learned how their Class works in practice yet.

[@bradleywindham4927]

Also worth noting that Druids actually got their subclass at level 2 already... so really not that substantial of a change

[@yaminoryuu9558]

that might be kinda true for the absolute first time someone plays... but for the other 999999999999999+ times... it's just shitty game design... since the absolute majority of people already know what they'll become since level 1.

[@normal6483]

As someone else who has introduced a lot of new players to the game, I feel bad telling them that the ninja they made isn't actually a ninja yet. The people I've played with have all been really excited and come up with creative ideas that they either don't know how to build or have an idea but aren't sure how to make it work. And when all of the options for doing the things they want to do are gated to higher levels, it means I either have to start at a higher level (meaning they have to do *more* confusing work building their character) or I have to tell them that they can't actually play the character they want to play yet.

[@nickm9102]

This is why My first time playing I went with Ranger. I had Martial weapons and good armor choices, a half caster so I had time to learn combat, then magic, then subclass and the slower spell progression gives you time to learn the spells you can use and how to use them. This led to my second character a Warlock. Now most DMs tell me they hate DMing for me because getting me to use spell slots on my full casters is like pulling teeth.

[@greatclubsandwich5612]

You don't have to start as a druid... you can start as a class which is easier to learn at first level, but the idea that all classes need to be changed in this way for beginners is a bit silly.

[@sev1120]

The oned&d elemental wild shape means metagaming is required to take not screw your party over against enemies with resistances. And if you go up again, say, an iron golem and pick fire, it's even worse. OneD&D wild shape is just flat out bad

[@TheGreyKami]

Druid in 5e doesn't feel super reliant on wisdom, yes it's useful, but dex and strength can be used (Shelieghly), but now if you don't max Wisdom immediately every aspect of being a druid sucks. Moon druid changing on bonus was a major part of the circle, but now EVERY druid gets that later

[@arthurgraton7165]

The moon druid lets you do "unarmed strikes" as a BA But the water and sky wild shape force you to keep your normal STR. So unless you are a buffed druid that put points into STR, you can throw a weak ass punch as a BA.

[@kurtacus3581]

My guess is that what they meant was to say you can use the Bestial Strike as a bonus action. Probably at some point in the process of creating it they originally called Bestial Strike an Unarmed Strike but later changed the name and forgot to change the rule

[@Redacted_Ruler]

Never thought i'd see the day druid be worse than monk.

[@BestgirlJordanfish]

Honestly I think setting Wildshape into a few stat blocks is the right decision. However, I think all they really need is the option to add Primal traits to them. Such as a poison attack if aquatic or pest, or maybe increased speed, or size and power, etc. It can be even more fun with a block + traits system, as expansions and subclasses can unfold even more traits (or even blocks in uncommon cases). Plus being able to use some outside of Wildshape can be fun as a weird feature too, invoking traits of animals. Like, let climbing, pack tactics, grapple attacks, shells, primal senses, etc be traits to slap on and I think enough people will be buzzing and expressing creatures in so many little ways. D&D’s harder, clunkier, and denser, than most TTRPGs in my experience and it really doesn’t really have to be. It just needs to double down with its direction and how people actually play. Also, absolutely good design for the HP buffer for extra health bars being gone. However, I just think a simple new rule is that beefier creatures give temp HP that scales with level and you can just call it a day.

[@niedude]

Just made a similar post 100% agreeing with everything you said. You're correct, and the changes to the Druid are GOOD changes, they just need some fine tuning. Everyone being mad just seem to be overreacting because they see lower numbers and a less clean final product, and forget that this is a playtest. There's some legitimate criticism regarding what we've seen, but calling the ability to cast Healing Word while wildshaped "complete trash" just shows you're being mad for the sake of being mad

[@MrJerks93]

I'd love to see an Invocation like system where you get to select the types of modifications you can add on. Some could be mutually exclusive for balance while others could stack. Also, remove the Tiny time limit, but trade off on damage. For example, you can only do 1 pt of damage, unless it's of the Poison subtype.

[@Catalyst375]

Once, Druids were Animorphs. Now, they just have fur costumes.

[@killcat1971]

One option would be to have a list of animal forms that are level locked, so say Wolf, Deer, Horse, Constrictor Snake at level 1, Bear, Giant Ape, Giant Spider at level 3 (or whenever they add the climb feature) etc, with a note that says "Or any other suitable CR form agreed to by the DM".

[@procrastinatinggamer]

That’s not too far off how Pathfinder 2e does it - wild shape replicates the various “X Form” polymorphic spells and those are each themed around particular creature types (so Aerial Form is birds, Aquatic Form is fish, Dragon Form should be obvious :P ). When you cast the spell or replicate it with wild shape, the spell says “here’s what your stats become, here’s some temp HP, now pick an animal from the list below for your attacks, speeds, and maybe some other abilities”. The animals you select are more archetypes rather than specific references to bestiary entries - so “Cat” on Animal Form can be tiger, snow leopard, jaguar, lion, cougar, etc.

[@Xahnel]

Remember, this playtest material is being designed with single player campaigning via AI dm's in mind, and I deeply doubt they have been or will be able to successfully program an AI to react to the full gamut of choices available to wildshaping Druids. So, they nerf the hell out of it, change it to three predictable statblocks where the only thing that matters is how you move, and they make it suck in combat to limit your desire to use it. They have taken wildshape, one of the most expressive abilities in DnD, and made it into what is effectively a cheap once per rest movement option for traversal only. All at the altar of the AI DM.

[@baszko6152]

I like idea od wildshape doing something different like some subclasses already do but not at the cost of killing its main feature. Also I think while not easiest the coolest part was taking animal characteristics almost 1 on 1 not bland template...

[@dragonmaster613]

I'm sticking to 5e (with tasha's, except her treatment of Race as lineage) and will only accept changing the term Race to Species.

[@rodneydavis9172]

I must be the only 1 then who really likes the new moon druid. That way you dont have to junp between books/ beg your dm to let you run the kavu predator. Yes the hp is kinda poo, but the rest actually makes the dmg scalable and fitting better for higher level play

[@Landuskir]

The AC is 10 + Wis modifier, not 10 + Wis Modifier + Dex Modifier. This means that you have an AC cap of 15. The damage isn't bad, per-se, at least at low levels, but they don't get any really good support for it. And without some sort of buffer on HP you're relying on your CON to get you through. This could definitely use some work. As it is right now you're not likely to ever use Wildshape in a real combat (unless you like being KO'd quickly).

[@final_catalyst]

I think the overall idea is right on the mark, basically tashas summons, but they stripped out way too much variety and power

[@yaminoryuu9558]

the HP is shit the AC is shit the spells are shit the damage is SUPER SHIT the limits to your shape are shit... the subclass is pure shit

[@jarydf]

So far I haven't seen anything in the play tests that makes me want to play one dnd.

[@fenec250]

I will be playtesting a homebrewed version of the Druid rather than the version presented in this UA: - Change the Hit Dice of the Druid to a D6; when they enter Wild Shape their current and maximum hit points increase by 3 times their Druid level * This gives them a healthpool equivalent to a Barbarian while in Wild Shape, although with less defenses * this also makes the shapeshifting class able to heal themselves very effectively after a few levels - Change their Wild Shape AC to 10+PB+Wis - Move all Wild Shape and Channel Nature features to a list of Aspects of Natures, invocation-like options that provide Wild Shape and Channel Nature options and upgrades. You choose two to gain at level 2 and gain one more at levels 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15. * this means you can choose if you want to be a versatile shapeshifter or nature channeller, you can focus your build on the way your want to play rather than getting all the same features that all Druids get. * this also makes it easier to expend on with new releases and homebrew, you can add options to the list.

[@sunstar8782]

I would love to see the completed from when you’re finished playtesting!

[@anachronity9002]

Better idea: stop giving WotC your money at all. Stop buying their books. Stop homebrewing their entire broken game for them and overlooking the obvious flaws, and change to a better-supported system instead.

[@madjack5593]

Wow, in just a few lines of txt youve made a better sounding Druid that the one presented to us by Wotc XD

[@ReserCatloons]

I think you're conflating "form" and "appearance" when you state that it's optimal to shift into a monkey to get hands. The feature states that "The appearance you choose has no effect on the form's capabilities"; I don't think that choosing the *Form* of a monkey would inherently allow a player extra ability to manipulate objects.

[@0whatman]

they really should either make wild shape work by CR like before or they gotta make it so you build your form by picking from a bunch of different options that cost different points (with you gaining more points to spend as you level up or the like) that way you can pick options to customise your build and make your animal fit then you can just make moon druids have more points!

[@TheGreyKami]

Spider climb is 3 points, and I use a pig... Spider pig, spider pig, does whatever a spider pig does

[@0whatman]

@@TheGreyKamilol

[@HulkTheSurgeon]

5e Players: "We want martials to be as good as casters late game." WoTC: **Nerfs casters to be pretty much worthless late game.** "You're welcome! :D" OneDnD balance changes in a nut shell.

[@renatocorvaro6924]

5E Wild Shape was already use-impaired, being mostly just extra hit points that turned off your strongest features (spellcasting). This is just more down the same line.

[@user-rv8yv4yh9n]

You can transform into any animal you want, but they're all cardboard cutouts with the HP to match. How fun..

[@foolycoolytheband]

Each of the wild shapes needs its own hit point pool and i think they should have a wider verity of templates to represent different kinds of animals like a turtle form, octopus and snake. And get rid of tiny critter and replace it with giant creature to give you huge animal forms

[@demonheart13]

That was already how wild shape worked. Basically you just want them to change it back.

[@foolycoolytheband]

@@demonheart13 i mean yeah i would prefer going back, but having a wider verity of templates and being able turn into any beast from the monster manual being the same thing is a big stretch.

[@apjtv2540]

Imo, I can see why they nerfed Moon Druid. A Lv20 Moon Druid was easily the tankiest character in the game and was basically unkillable in a 1v1 situation with literally anything. But yeah, I'm really disappointed with the number of RPG's that seem to go "hey, let's just use a generic stat block for druids turning into animals instead of giving our players freedom to customise".

[@felixrivera895]

I will say. I have been extremely happy with thr change to spell casting as a whole. Its not just simpler, but it reigns in the ubiquitous nature of spellcasting. A fighter can go all day, maybe swapping out a weapon, but if a caster prepares bad spells, or even under specializes with good spells, for the day they're gonna struggle. As for Wildshape. Idk it konda sucks to lose out on the cool abilities of animals. Turning into a 1cm spider was maybe a little Op but whatever. The real kick in the teeth is you don't even get Temp Hp when you cahnge. I know they don't want Druids being better at taking damage than Barbarians, but the fix for that is to make it Temp HP based on a fixed, controllable point. Temp HP is way weaker than actual HP. Also what the heck is up with that trash AC? Its useless.

[@DrMindmasher]

Hot take- Min maxing multiclassers are largely to blame for a lot of these really heavy nerfs and subclass level changes. Maybe if you didn’t feel the need to run around as a bear with multi attack, bonus dmg, 76 total hp pool with damage resistance at level 3 instead of playing like a normal person, they wouldn’t need to do all this. This is a role playing game, but the only role you’re playing is the guy who wants to easily win every single combat encounter and make balancing a nightmare for your DM. To be clear, I don’t have a problem with multiclassing, just crap like moon Druid barbarian or anything that dips into another class for the sole purpose of gaining strong abilities. Tell a story with your character that isn’t, “look how good I am at stats” this isn’t a video game.

[@MaestroMagnifico21]

First they nerfed my favorite class(Bard) to the ground then they ruined my second favorite class(Druid) OneD&D is gonna suck i am just going to stick to 5e.

[@gyletre675]

If find familiar health scales with spell level, that is the first scaling ritual spell we get, right? Can you upcast a spell while casting it as a ritual?

[@niedude]

No, ritual spells are always cast at base level, but you are correct that in 5e none had benefits to being upcast. But I think that's because Ritual spells taking 10 minutes meant they were easy to chain together and cast 2 or 3 times if needed. This new Find Familiar has a casting time of 1 hour, so it's not a spell you can cast maybe once (as a ritual or with a spell slot) unless you have a lot of downtime. I haven't checked the other ritual spells in the play test, but I'm guessing other spells will have similar casting times. It then makes sense that if you want additional benefits from the spell, or you're strapped for time, you will upcast this spell to get your one hour's of downtime worth.

[@SyperDT]

Feels like they're copying pf2e without taking into account of pf2e's system.

[@JadeHarleyCoffeeMug]

pathfinder is trash

[@Lionpigster]

We should lower our heads as we can still give feedback and they will change it if the feedback shows that we hate it. Easy and I am looking forward to the real new druid :)

[@Darkwintre]

So why didn't they make Druid a sub class of the Cleric and their channel divinity instead? Sounds awful regardless.

[@renatocorvaro6924]

"Why isn't Druid a subclass of Cleric" is something that people have been asking ever since Druid stopped being a Cleric subclass.

[@TrixyTrixter]

Why dont they make druid subclasses more diverse Like how pathfinder 2e does. Only one druid subtype have wildshape even.

[@northeastoperations]

Had to resubscribe. Thanks KZbin.

[@ryangentry2003]

Crawford said it best in their video about the Druid “some people just want to be a nature wizard” so they neutered wildshape into the dirt. It will probably end up being nerfed in the long run, but hopefully not this much.

[@squiddyproductions2150]

goofy thing about that line of thought is, why make the main focus of the class just a nerfed wildshape, and why nerf moon druid in that way. Why not make moon druid the subclass to focus on wildshape like it has been, and other subclasses focus on other aspects of Channel Nature. The main class progression should just have general focus on features to the class, not wildshape specifically.

[@zachariahm.kemper7406]

Druid was my favorite class in 5e, just cause I thought wildshape was cool, thanks for killing it wotcy

[@j.troydoe1278]

Guess ill play a wizard.

[@j.troydoe1278]

​@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket, want to see my vast 2nd edition library?

[@renatocorvaro6924]

​@@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket "Just play the good version." I mean 3.5 *does* still have an active community but really, no version of D&D has ever been good.

[@JadeHarleyCoffeeMug]

why do you freaks even go on the youtube’s to complain about every little feature this system has? “the good d&d” must not be as fun as bitching in youtube comments huh?

[@davidpolttila5270]

So the implication here is when a druid turns into a weak animal, lets say a rat, because he uses his wisdom modifier for strength, he will invariably become a really buff rat. Inversely, if he turns into a cow, he will be a VERY agile cow. Great. Perfect. Honestly, that makes too much sense. Fuck imagine a hippo with 20 dex, and expertise in acrobatics from a rogue dip.

[@moonlight2870]

It was always useless unless you were moon druid. If you were not moon drui you were either using it for something more useful (wildfire pet, star druid constelations, spore form) or you forgot it existed. "Oh but you could turn into a spider and infiltrate-" fuck it. Nobody was doing that. The new wildshape templates are weak, but they are a step in the right direction.

[@yourface2464]

No dude. Wild shape was the single reason you would ever play druid. If you don't use it, you're better off playing a different class. It was never useless, it was the single core defining feature of the class. It's like saying removing sneak attack on rogue is a step in the right direction.

[@moonlight2870]

@@yourface2464 Pfft no. If you're not playing moon druid, wild shape is a resource. I played a wildfire druid and never once shifted into an animal because summoning the fire spirit was way more useful every time. Both in and out of combat. Yes you can turn into a...wolf. Or maybe a brown bear. for like 50 extra hit points and pointless attacks. It was such a weak mechanic. Druids are full casters and they can achieve better "wild shapes" by casting polymorph. Actually, you get better utility from spell casting anyway. And better damage from Shillelagh or savagery.

[@kyubii972]

Also flavor was always free so it's very odd that they think that replaces mechanical usefulness when their system is almost exclusively built around combat.

[@AlexLJ55]

This only reinforces my thought that druid should be two different classes. A nature based spell caster and a melee shape shifter.

[@JadeHarleyCoffeeMug]

that sounds more dumb and annoying, d&d player base is just made of bad ideas

[@Homebrewin]

It took me a bit to realize. But healing blossoms is meant to be how you get bonus hp from wildshape. They just didn’t restrict the healing to yourself and allowed you to divvy it up if you want.

[@Xel963]

Still doesn't matter what we think about One DnD, the Wizards of the Coast are just gonna build what they want and ignore our opinions.