Drums & Demons: The Tragic Journey of Jim Gordon with Joel Selvin - EP 234

[@jimcarroll8004]

I knew a bit about Jim Gordon’s amazing drumming prior to reading this book. What a horrible, gut wrenching story, one of the most tragic accounts of a man’s mental illness that I’ve ever heard…

[@cephoras]

I met Jim Gordon in 1971 at West Hollywood Drum Shop. He was a really nice guy and took time to chat with me while he picked out sticks for a session.

[@susanedrington4878]

Pro Drum Shop?

[@susanedrington4878]

We were very close.

[@susanedrington4878]

Nice!

[@susanedrington4878]

Hal & Earl called me. Both sweet. Yes Jim told me about the orange juice cans on “God Only Knows.”

[@michaelmangrum5460]

In 1971 I was 12, and I remember all those bands , songs, and artists. I was a big Jim Gordon fan . When I became a JG fan that's when my record collection began. I was mowing 2 or 3 lawns a day and my parents had to limit me to 2 albums a week. After a point band class wasn't enough to fill my obsessive need for music. My parents were already used to hearing my snare drum, so that wasn't a problem. I went to a pawnshop one afternoon and found a Ludwig Bass Drum the same wrap as Ringo's and took it home. How could I not !?!? The next month I found a red sparkle Ludwig Mounted Tom and snagged that one . The next month I got a green sparkle floor Tom. Then a chrome Snare. The one I used for school was garbage. During summer I was cutting more yards, and buying more equipment. The guy at the pawn shop had my wish list and was keeping Zildjian cymbals in the back room for me. Next were Hi-Hat cymbals and stand. Then a crash cymbal, Zildjian. Then a Ride. When I bought the crash the guy gave me a stand for it. And he gave me another one for the Ride, and another one for a second Crash later in the year. I couldn't believe that I had an honest to God set of Ludwigs and Zildjians. The first time I sat down to play it almost made my sticker peck out ! I Thank you Mr. Gordon for being my hero, and getting me into drumming. 56 years later I have a set in every room, and they all match. I still have my first set and play them when I slap some old vinyl on the turntable.

[@davidstein9129]

Thanks for your inspiring post. Good for you. Enjoy the music you're making. I loved my Ludwig maple wood wrap 5-piece drum 🥁 set and some really nice Zildjian cymbals too. They sounded great.

[@BeesWaxMinder]

Now, that's the life I want to lead!

[@stephengriffin1428]

Bart and Joel this podcast is so enlightening as I’m a Steely Dan fan almost from their formation and I said to myself why replace a perfectly good drummer like Jim Hodder with Jim Gordon until I heard the jazz-like quality of Jim Gordon on Rikki Don’t Lose That Number and then I got it. No one can truly explain how schizophrenia manifests itself in the human brain or how much is down to genetics, childhood trauma etc etc but suffice to say if Jimmy Gordon was born say 20 years later modern science might have saved him from his demons. I hope Jim gets the peace in death he clearly didn’t experience in life.

[@drumdiscussion7776]

Thanks Bart and Joel for recognition of a silenced musician Jim Gordon. His drumming Inspired many and he created an exciting discography with The Who's Who of musical entertainers throughout the 60's thru late 70's. The drumming community will always appreciate him for his talent. ❤

[@SluffAdlin]

As a pianist, I was first introduced to Jim through ‘Layla’. I was so intrigued by that piano part, I had no idea he was a drummer, let alone world class.

[@EddieG1888]

Jim Gordon stole that from Rita Coolidge.

[@kengodsey4490]

I grew up listening to Jim play drums on all kinds of records, along with millions of others. When I first heard his story after his Mom's murder I was just blown away, shocked !

[@NickRatnieks]

Very interesting to understand more about this very sad story. One of my friends backed the Everly Bros touring Germany in 1963- they played the Star Club. He remembered Jim as being a very nice young guy and he got to know Don Peake really well- and he taught him a load of James Burton guitar riffs and techniques which really helped his career. I mention this as he is a huge Rick Nelson fan and I bought Joe Selvin's biography of Rick back in 1990. This book is going to be important in putting Jim Back on the map where he deserves to be.

[@malcolmdrums]

Fascinating stuff...thank you. Gordon was a hero of mine.

[@johngolden5257]

Incredible episode my friend! Thanks so much for helping to keep Jim Gordon from being forgotten.

[@susanedrington4878]

Jim and I were close for over 20 years. I met him. He called me everydayin 2017 and told me he loved me. I got the best of him. I miss him. 💔

[@ronjon5386]

I have know about Jim for many years because I’m a drummer of 45 years myself. Jim was an influence Midnight at the Oasis is killer I think his work with Traffic and Seals and Croft were my introduction to Jim It’s said that drugs will trigger some types of schizophrenia that have been sitting dormant for years. I do believe this. Good video guys. Thanks

[@kgobrien1]

Joel Selvin was the San Francisco Chronicle's Rock writer for decades. This sounds like a fascinating book His book on the Summer of Love is a good book as well.

[@vazquez808]

This is one of the best episodes you’ve posted in a while. Your guest did an amazing job of educating us on and humanizing Jim.

[@LeoraLaGraffe]

He wrote back to me, an absolute nobody, when I wrote to him in prison to thank him for his music. That was such an incredibly kind thing for him to have done. I wish people knew about that side of him and not just the tragedy.

[@corndogextreme8887]

What did he say?

[@LeoraLaGraffe]

@@corndogextreme8887 he thanked me for writing him.

[@DAGDRUM53]

In early 1970 I saw Joe Cocker, not as uptempo as I like, but I'm glad I went. Especially since Jim Gordon was set up right behind Cocker, his drums next to Jim Keltner and his kit.

[@JeffreySinclair-g8y]

I have heard all of Joel’s Jim interviews; one of the best! The mental illness focus was riveting

[@jefflyon2020]

Besides live at leeds by the who,derek and the dominos live at the filmore for me was and is the greatest live rock and roll records ever made.Jim Gordon was and is one of my FAVORITE drummers from ANY era in music history.just recently in the last few years has info and insight been available about what he did and his life,when not behind the drumkit,Jeff Porcaro's untimely and sudden death was also tragic,and sorrounded with misinformatioin.or lack of.Thanks for this episode you guys,gonna put on dominos "let it rain",and revisit Jim's amazing drum solo live at the filmore.

[@DrumHistoryPodcast]

Thanks very much for watching!

[@thesleepyheadz]

Interestingly, Jim didn't do much soloing, except for Let it Rain and some tracks he did with Zappa. He mostly did just what a track needed.

[@dejordyball]

A great historical artifact, but one of the greatest? Come on. They were all zonked out by heroin, cocaine, and alcohol, and the poorly recorded performance is sloppy with bad vocals by all. Quite a contrast with a truly great live recording--Allman Brothers at same Fillmore.

[@luvbasses5487]

…I’ll tell ya something that’s undeniable about that D&TD Fillmore live record: when Jim kicked it down and with Carl coming in on bass, they shook the foundation of that frickin’ place! There was nothing about these players that wasn’t world class.

[@kellythompson3865]

I'm a drummer and my appreciation for Jim's playing was welcome. I worked with paranoid schizophrenics and it was fascinating, unpredictable, and not a one was the same. I asked my supervisor why I had all of the folks with mental health issues? He smiled and said, "because you can handle it." I took it as a compliment, never the less. I learned a great deal about their histories and cliche stigma. For people with money, they are better helped but poverty and mental health are evaded. Great music Mr. Gordon! Not your fault bro. Peace!

[@susanedrington4878]

I worked with people who suffered with schizophrenia better choice of words

[@susanedrington4878]

He is at peace.

[@geoffburton822]

I saw Jim play with Delaney & Bonnie. He belonged behind a drum kit. It was hypnotic to see his graceful laying down the groove, like a human machine. My favorite magic moment: he reached down and moved his seat up an inch or so, mid-beat, and it was so shocking, you'd laugh with joy; it was impossible. I'm thankful I saw Jim play. I really do hope he can Rest In Peace.

[@MrRCOTE]

Thanks for informing me about the new "Drums & Demons" book Bart. I grabbed a copy yesterday at my local Barnes & Noble. I'll keep watching your videos but if you'll excuse me, I have some reading to do :)

[@DrumHistoryPodcast]

Happy reading!

[@briansalisbury4764]

I had a friend doing time at The California Mens Colony in San Luis Obispo in the 90's. You have to share tables there when its crowded. One time we shared a table with Jim. He was on meds but i actually had a good but brief conversation with him. I asked him about Eric Clapton and if he stayed in contact with him. Jim said that stopped years ago. Such an amazing talent. He played drums with the prison band at that time.

[@mattwoodland5433]

Joel, you should write a book on great Stax drummer Al Jackson, murdered mid 70s involving his wife.

[@sulevisydanmaa9981]

OR ...on DARRELL BANKS , same fate, King Curtis (but that was a random bad luck case). Mogie ..

[@jesse-gz1ri]

I wish Jim could be here to see this book.

[@QuaaludeCharlie]

Joel is a great Writer , This is a very sad story , I can Understand the Other Prisoners saying What a Waste . Somehow I hope this Helps more with Mental Illness and my condolences to Jim's family friends and anyone touched by His Drums , His Vibe .

[@paulmcateer]

Great interview Bart. Brilliant book on Jim Gordons life. Joel mentions Gary Chester whose legacy must surly be the “New Breed” book series which I suggest you check out. David Weckl and many others constantly refer to it as an influence on their work.

[@seansherrod8725]

WOW this is KRAZY because I am currently listening to this book on Audible. I preordered it awhile ago and I totally forgot the day it was going to be released. I really want to watch this post because this channel is awesome and amazing! But yet I don’t want to hear ANY spoilers about the book.

[@augustabiehly7225]

Great interview. I am reading the book now (about halfway there). This story is tragic and made many victims; his Mother of course but also his ex-wife, his daughter and his friends and partners too. There is no excuse for what Jim did; only explanations. Mental illness is awful.

[@brockbeckstedt6483]

Wonderful and insightful interview!

[@jdnelson9538]

I'm so fortunate to have seen the great Jim Gordon play drums twice in my life...January 1970 with "Bread" (Jim was the studio drummer on Bread's first l.p.) and May 1979 with Judy Collins (during the "Hard Times for Lovers/"Judith" period: Jim played on both lps). Excellent drummer in that he percussively enhanced both live musical experience. So sad about his mental illness getting so out of control. One day in 1980 the voices told him to murder his own mother, and unfortunately he did. Jim died in prison in 2022 approximately, where he'd been since the day of the murder, whereas he weapingly confessed at the moment two LAPD arrived simply to tell him the shocking news that his mother had been murdered.

[@susanedrington4878]

Nice comment

[@susanedrington4878]

I studied the disease schizophrenia more than I researched his career. It helped me when we met. A beautiful 2 days.

[@williampinner1893]

Wow! I had no idea what happened to Jim. What a tragic outcome to a wonderful life. I briefly encountered Jaco Pastorious not long be for his tragic death. That to was a situation where this amazingly talented musician had mental illness issues and died tragically. Life can

[@HVGreen-cx5wy]

I understand why you would say “headaches that make you pee”. Any scary pain, and we think uncontrolled urination is a normal response. But the better analogy would be headaches so bad they make you vomit. There’s little said about urination and headaches. You might secrete urine, but vomiting (in my case from migraine) is VERY common.

[@luvbasses5487]

I’ll type it all out again: I’ve heard Gordon Lightfoot’s Sundown hundreds - possibly thousands of times over the years. About a year ago it comes on my car stereo and I’m sitting in traffic just creeping along, and for some reason or another right then it hit me like a ton of bricks! As I’m focusing on the drum punctuations and hits that would announce the chorus, I’m saying to myself: “it sounds as if the drummer here wrote the damn song!” Everything is so neat and tidy - total finesse drumming! I now had to research who played drums on this thing! So I did…and it was Jim.

[@JeffreySinclair-g8y]

These songs, already heard hundreds of times, deserve hundreds more listens just focusing on Jim’s drumming!

[@luvbasses5487]

…the drum part is what woke me up on this tune. I had to find out who lay down that part! When I learned it was Jim, it ALL made sense then.

[@superfuzzymomma]

Zappa called him Skippy. He was a Titan.

[@fosbury68]

One of my favorite unlikely examples of Jim Gordon's mastery. Carpenters "Only Yesterday". Hal Blaine played on nearly all of the Carpenters' sessions but he didn't do this one - and it's a very distinctive drum performance.

[@CharlesBallard-f3t]

I’m a huge carpenters fan so I decided to go back and listen to only yesterday and you are so right about Jim‘s performance on the song. I’m so used to listening to Hal Blaine, but it’s definitely a different style from Hal and perfect for the song. RIP JIM GORDON

[@brichpmr]

@@CharlesBallard-f3t Listen to Jim Gordon's playing on the Carpenters' single. Solitaire. Masterful and tasty use of his toms to excellent effect.

[@luvbasses5487]

Top Of The World opens with a brief hi-hat figure by Hal. It happens so quickly that if you blink you won’t hear it! I’ve dragged back to repeat hearing it over and over. I’m a bass player so I’m a stickler for time and groove. It sounds as if Hal is using brushes here and he makes this happy little song glide along like a warm summer breeze. He never loses control and even while it’s a very subdued drum part, he’s still driving the bus and getting it done RIGHTLY. He’s my favorite ten drummers!

[@jimflys2]

Fascinating interview. Hats off to the author for doing a great work on Jim Gordon. I only take issue with one statement. At no point does Jim Gordon us a Samba beat or pattern in Midnight At The Oasis. It is really a swung r and b or funk feel done on the light side. Not straight. Going to the ride on the guitar solo gives it an airyness that contrasts so nicely before going back into a verse. Fairly common thing and maybe I apply that often because of JG's influence in pop music. Greart epi, Bart.

[@keaganearly8955]

Awesome interview 👍

[@jjjohny_a5965]

great stream cool storys alot history ..thanks again

[@Fender73472]

I was a big traffic fan and his drumming on low spark is phenomenal …..

[@susanedrington4878]

Love Low Spark! My favorite

[@intrepiddrums]

Excellent episode and information thank you!

[@jesse-gz1ri]

I wonder if an episode in regards to the gear Jim utilized through out his career would be feasible?

[@glengamble526]

As long as its not info sourced from this author. He repeatedly says Jim played Ludwig Sparkletone drums-there are no such things. Three chapters in and I put the book down.

[@MervinGriff]

Jim was known for playing Camco drums.

[@jesse-gz1ri]

What about cymbals?

[@MervinGriff]

as far as i can recall Zildijians and Paiste hi hats.@@jesse-gz1ri

[@drumhd1]

A Paiste 602 ride cymbal that you heard on so many records. He played both Zildjian and Paiste.

[@edgoodwin1667]

Great interview 👌🎼🎶🎵☮️

[@chrisfleming4511]

I just bought the book and started reading it. It's an excellent book.

[@livefrommydrumroom]

Great show Bart! Joel is awesome! 👏

[@jerrylev59]

Kudos to Selvin for his painstaking research that brings empathy to the tragic enigma of this hugely talented and historically significant musician that Jim Gordon was, but I still want to know what kind sticks and heads he preferred.

[@ValerieFelitto]

I remember Jim in the 70s and I remember when it happened. It was quite unbelievable. So sad.

[@williamaeronlewis]

intense ! great episode.

[@susanedrington4878]

Thanks for this podcast.

[@clayfoster8234]

I’m a drummer and I also have bipolar. The first psychiatrist I saw perscribed a very outdated medication regime that included an antipsychotic that’s used for schizophrenia. Based on my personal experience of what that did to my ability to play I have no idea how someone could be a functioning professional musician on that treatment regime. The lethargy, brain fog, and inability to remember anything I just don’t see being conducive to that profession.

[@michaelmangrum5460]

Clayfoster8234, I'm bipolar too, and I have no problem playing what Mr. Gordon played. It seems very natural to me, but I take a more modern drug called Wellbutrin. It doesn't have any of the side effects of the archaic psychiatric meds. Not even the notorious E.D. The first 30 years of on my life were absolute hell. Then a new younger Dr. gave me Wellbutrin, and I became a new completely functioning person. It didn't hurt my playing either. I've often wondered why I was able to play Mr. Gordon's rhythms so easily. Could it have been my own bipolar condition ? I suppose that question is rhetorical. I'll take it no matter the reason. Playing gives me sooo much pleasure, and I'm sure it is the reason why I made it through the first 30 years of my life. If you or someone you know has mental health problems GET HELP !!! There's no reason to go through life suffering. That's not living, it's merely surviving. Life can be so much better than that.

[@clayfoster8234]

@@michaelmangrum5460 I need to edit my comment. I’m also a drummer. I meant to say that I don’t see him being able to be a functioning musician on the meds they would have given him back then.

[@Ian_P]

Thank you. 👍😁

[@transmitterimages8638]

Has there been any talk - past or present - of turning Jim's story into a movie?

[@dejordyball]

The book is great. Maybe a bit repetitive with flowery descriptions of Gordon's drumming talents, but I don't think many know how big he was with pop recordings especially of the '60s. I knew him mostly as the Layla/Traffic guy.

[@BeesWaxMinder]

25:49 … I guess if you're a bad person and you suffer like that you inflict on other people but Jim sounded good and can only inflict harm on himself ?

[@williampinner1893]

Life can have bizzar twists & turns.

[@ItsBriiiiii]

Amazing drummer, and musician. He's got of course percussion credits, vocal credits, piano credits, horn? credits. No one played or sounded like him, singular. drugs

[@The_Other_Ghost]

Respect. With all the Taylor Hawkins videos out within a month of his passing, waiting a year and not adding hashtags is what I'd have done.

[@krusher74]

As a nearly 50 year old drummer, i heard layla the other day and thought that would be somthing differant to play along with next pratice, after that i googled who played drums on layla, Jim grodon never heard of him!, and here i am! (after listening maybe the whitewashng is why i've never heard of him till now)

[@Nrustica]

Only people I know who know who skippy is are fans of frank zappa.

[@lipiarskisteve]

he was like James Taylor who he is so kind with Carly Simon after he was drinking alcool.

[@jimmauro8308]

Not perfectly accurate. This gentleman says that Jim did nothing after 1978. In 1980, Jim toured with Jackson Browne on the Hold Out tour, as well as other tours. I think JB was trying to save him.

[@tims1348]

I also saw Jim Gordon was personnel on Lowell George’s “Thanks I’ll Eat it Here” solo album. Which was released 1979

[@Cpayne30]

Not correct, Jim toured with Jackson Browne in 1978. Russ Kunkel played on the 1980 tour. As for Lowell's Thanks I'll Eat It Here, I think the tracks were recorded over a span of a few years.

[@neil1390]

Great drummer,over worked, taking drugs to keep up with his schedule,and severe mental illness, recipe for disaster, for the most sought out drummer of his Not to mention the prescriptions, which made it worse

[@jamesberlo4298]

John Bonham's Death I would say is as tragic,

[@MyDyerMaker]

There's a definite link between marijuana use and schizophrenia. Makes me wonder how it played a part. According to Scientific American, a Danish study indicated that up to 30 percent of psychosis diagnoses in young men could have been prevented if these individuals hadn’t used marijuana heavily.

[@Bill-l7g]

Underlying Bipolar & Schizophrenia can start about 15-30 in its onset and taking inebriates can trigger those mental illnesses . Not to say they wouldn’t occurs anyway but they can act as an accelerant . Cannibus did not cause the condition

[@JonRadfordDrums]

APACHiE

[@jaymontie]

What was his religion? Was he Christian?

[@MrTyeandrews]

He took too much of the same bad acid as Brian Wilson. The wrecking crew guys were doing a lot of it.