The Impossible - A Controversial Trick

[@severinstirnemann6717]

i have seen a lot of very amazing flips in this video! respect! but to make it clear: a "360 shove it" is when you rotate the board 360° around Z-Axys. you have kick the tail a little bit to bring the board up enough to make the rotation. it can also done only 180 for beginners. while an "impossible" is something totally different: you need to kick your backfoot exactly in the transition of the tail of your board while your frontfoot is a little bit behind the front trucks to get enought height. then you need to move your backfoot forward so the board wraps around it while lifting up your front foot. this is actually the tricky part,: kick the tail while jumping from your front foot wich feels a little strange in the beginning. everybody ever tried the trick will feel or knows the difference. it is actually not the hardest trick, i did one today with sandals after many years of not skateboarding :) i am 47 years old! so to all young skaters: try it ! you can do it! believe me a tre-flip is much harder to do, because it needs a lot of air time. So you need to push hard and jump high to get enough time for the flip, and because the board rotates in two directtions, a lot can go wrong. On the other side, the "impossible" is a single movement: kick the tale 45 ° exactly in the transition, the physics will do the rest. you can also try it sitting on a bench and only flip the board to get in touch with the backfoot movement. But don't mix it up with a front foot impossible, this is something very difficult, dangerous because you will crash the board many times into your legs. also there might be some broken boards because you will tend to land exactly in the middle of the board while triying it. for this trick you need ollie first and then wrap the board around your front foot in the other direction. i hope i could some skaters encourage to try the impossible, it is a wonderful trick, and feels so good :) ... and really: it is not so difficult I also agree, in competitions there should be a clear definition of the tricks, as i mentioned, shove it and impossible are totally different movements, i never managed to do 360° shove it. But anyway, nice video! keep it up! Have fun with skateboarding ! 👍

[@drizzho]

The problem with the rules is that a lot of the refs are high as a kite and don’t care what happens and don’t wanna look like the “bad guy” calling their peers out

[@VictorAlbaa]

there should be A referee

[@tompainter7167]

@@VictorAlbaathe berratron

[@bryantroehm6731]

i think it comes from the era of the main group of skaters...where an impossible is a joke trick...no respect to it so they just kinda shrug and go whatever

[@JaGGeR-]

They treat it like a joke because they can't do it correctly if at all.

[@prettymuchnobody]

it’s not that serious

[@rsmage1219]

“Imposterble” should be legitimately coined as a 360 Shuvit mistakenly counted as an Impossible.

[@seanissomething]

Underrated comment

[@RTU130]

Ye

[@MysticHerbica]

They are called imposters

[@LordDAndre]

BATB would be judged more fairly if they only allowed a select few people to Ref the battles, and made sure each person was trained appropriately and showed no bias. Instead they just hand the biggest responsibility over to any one of the homies who just happens to be in the building that day and doesn’t mind being on camera

[@itisjustacomment]

A lot of the referees know the skaters and are biased. Impossible has always been up to wrap since the 80s and 90s We knew it back then, front or back foot impossible meaning contact with the foot all the way around. If not it's, not done right.

[@imaverageatgamesbutimostly3431]

I’m totally cool with that

[@dbspaceoditty]

@@itisjustacomment yeah, the whole verticality thing is taken out of context most times. although the 3 shuv impossible has been around for decades. if the board does a 360 rotation in any direct. and never leaves the back foot. its an impossible. although traditionally the goal was to just make the board flip on the verticle access, but skateboarding changes and evolves... an ollie was a vert trick. which is why it was called a flat ground ollie. we just call it an ollie now, and the trick is trastically different than it was when mullen invented it. mullens early ollies used kinetic energy. he ollied like newbs with a tech deck. we use potential energy for ollies now. we use our strength, not abusing kinetic energy to manipulate the way a piece of wood moves. but using potential energy to force the board off the ground.

[@mclarensaleenf7]

The 13 year old Christion reffing was absolutely on point. Kid made perfect calls according to the rules the whole game. Then the next week there was the dude who had Joslin redo multiple tricks without any toe drags at all, it was like he’d never read the rules or watched a game before. Like every trick had to be bolts to count. Christion best ref of the season so far. It’s not that difficult and they should def be able to check replays for actual ground drags.

[@Lemoncrusher4455]

Had a friend that did the Shane O’Neil three shove that he would claim impossible. All of us would hurt his feelings every time we called him out on it

[@debomb721]

Why does he care so much, a 3 shuv is a good trick to have I do 3 shuvs like your friend, it kinda goes a bit vertical, but I’ve never been under the impression it is an impossible. When I play with ppl nowadays they’re so itching to call ppl out they yell “THATS NOT AN IMPOSSIBLE REDO”, but I’m like “I never said I was gonna do an impossible… it’s a 3 shuv”

[@nikinovski]

Had? What happened to your friend?

[@Lemoncrusher4455]

@@nikinovski he quit skating and moved for a football scholarship he’s doing great for himself. I see what he does here and there but he loves across country now

[@Lemoncrusher4455]

@@debomb721 idk we were 14 year old kids you know you don’t wanna be false claiming things you cannot do correctly

[@zym6687]

@@debomb721 What??? theres no redo for setting a trick and you have to call your trick before

[@itisjustacomment]

Being from the 80s and 90s skating we understood that the impossible always had to wrap. This means contact around the foot all the time, front foot impossible or back foot impossible.

[@drippyscratchcat]

I've been WRAPPING vertically all impossibles since like 1988. Both WRAP and VERTICAL is an impossible. 3 shoves R WAY easier..........

[@alfioplays7443]

Preach❤

[@sk8_bort]

some wack impossibles look horizontal, but there is contact with the back foot all the time, while some others are huge and vertical with very aggressive wrapping, but the back foot clearly loses contact with the board for a split second. It's not that simple.

[@Tricklarock]

YUUUUUP!!!!!

[@richdixon]

This.

[@robertblackmore703]

I don’t know why the Berrics haven’t cleaned up their reffing. It’s easily the number one beef viewers have with the series, and the complaints are typically warranted. Also, super easy to fix. Any number of skate rats would do the job for free. I would do it for a plane ticket and a couch to sleep on, and that’s only because I live in Boston.

[@imaxdigital7052]

There's no real controversy here. Just people who know what an impossible is and people who don't. And it's really annoying.

[@Heavilymoderated]

I feel like you don’t have to wrap your impossible if you show up in a Cariuma shirt. And “Unpossible” comes from a Ralph Wiggum quote.

[@mattpierce1011]

100% I thought the Olympics should have been a game of SKATE

[@tyr4489]

z axis rotation differentiates an impossible from a 3 shuv and foot wrap differentiates it from a zero/monster flip. I always thought the former necessitated the latter, but the existence of zero/monster flips obviously proves that wrong

[@LoonyMC]

I love these videos so much, equal parts hilarious and intruiging. With the sweet bonus of making me want to go out and skate.

[@Backlashed]

If you do an impossible on defense against a 360 shuvit, it should not count, it's a different trick. Therefore it is implied that you only have to wrap on defense against an impossible.

[@TheGhostOfFredZeppelin]

Exactly, why would the person who sets the trick be forced to do another trick out of turn just because their opponent did the wrong trick lol

[@drbjr8223]

ikr, what even was that question, weird.

[@drbjr8223]

exactly my thoughts, what is the person in the video even fucking talking about... good lord@@TheGhostOfFredZeppelin

[@LilDiabetus]

If the board isn’t vertical and your foot twirls it around, it counts as a 3 Shuv on defence because it is. If the board is vertical and touching the back foot then it is an impossible.

[@JPsk8core]

If you can do an impossible you know the difference... Absolutely different tricks with aboslutely different execution and feeling to it

[@AndymonPlays]

Great vid as always. I'd love to see the data on 360's vs 180 reverts one day! It always sucks to see someone hang a beautiful 360 only to have the opponent just slide/pivot out of thiers. It's in the same category as the impossible/3 shuv discrepency imo. There's a few prominent current skaters that are really bad for this and the refs just let it go.

[@vperkv6554]

COUGH, JAMIE GRIFFIN , COUGH COUGH. DAM, covid. Must have been one of the many boosterz lingering, 🙃

[@AndymonPlays]

@@vperkv6554 Yeah he's really bad for it iirc. :D He's an amazing talent for sure, but it is a bit cheap tbh. It's just a low risk way of pulling it off. A 180 revert is a different trick to a 360. It really shouldn't be hard to ref it. Didn't one of the refs call someone out for it recently, or is my memory fooling me?

[@alexolson-bick8111]

Agreed

[@rsmage1219]

Great video. Someone please correct the Ghetto Bird. The Ghetto Bird is ONLY done Nollie. It is a Nollie Hardflip FS Revert/Late FS 180.

[@augormasterson9312]

Any question of what an impossible is or how it is to be executed should simply reference the New Deal video 1281 released in 1991 and watch Ed Templetons section towards the end of the video. This is text book flawless execution.

[@PBeetheFox]

This video has the energy of a high school sophomore explaining to all the teachers how they're wrong.

[@JhebadiaSprunklefunk]

If your foot doesn't pull the board into the air during the wrap then it's not a classical impossible (Mullen impossible). That's how I grade it, so an imposterble only gets the rotation from the pop with the foot hovering/just following it. A true impossible needs no pop.

[@jackw8437]

“Tragically titled monster flip.” I’m so glad someone finally said it. Dumb name. Already had a name. And yea, plugs is the best

[@claravarca]

this is one of my favourite videos in this channel an that says a lot. it's interesting because prior to the discussion around the batb wrap rule, i would say an impossible is about the y-axis rotation, as it seems like that was what rodney mullen and his peers were trying to achieve with the trick, and the foot-wrapping was more of a tool to make it physically viable. however, i call out non-wrapped impossibles all the time. now i'm not sure anymore if a full rotation on the y-axis without wrapping should be an impossible or not. still have to think about it, love that the video triggered this train of thought

[@signalpathproductions]

Rodney clearly says in the beginning that its a ‘scoop’ trick….

[@MichaelMillerGR]

SKATE WILL BE IN THE OLYMPICS. IT IS THE ULTIMATE SKATEBOARDING BATTLE.

[@LogRobin]

This is the best rabbit hole video you’ve done. And I actually learned something in the past weeks, because of your polls. They made me realize what I think an impossible truly is. And I very much agree with the outcome of this video 👍

[@mikeuptegrove]

There’s just a judging problem. I don’t think the “opponent”, verbiage means that if defense does a better trick, offense loses turn and now has to do the defender’s trick.

[@allstopblue5717]

I’m not sure why he even tried to make that point. So stupid. We all know what the rule means when it says “opponent”

[@kabby29]

This is why I love YT. I remember a few months back I was watching a bunch of BATB clips and noticed that some impossible's just looked better than others. I watched the physicsgirl video and went down a shallow rabbit hole regarding the trick, but eventually just went on with my life because there wasn't much there. Now there's a full 18-min research video on the same topic. Thank you sir.

[@Old_man_Rob]

There is a reason why Freestyle contests went away.. thanks for reminding me why they did...

[@sinikoncar7838]

If you watch Zach Doellings 'impossible' in slow mo, you can clearly see that his backfoot has no contact with the board. It looks like an impossble but it's simply a three shov. To be save, every impossible should be checked in slow mo afterwards.

[@Mathertron]

RadRat shout out noice

[@chimyshark]

I love Rad Rat!

[@BillyHanning]

Definitely the biggest difference is the wrap however, if it has some verticality, it not only looks better, but can help differentiate the impossible and the 3 shuv

[@toifel]

Bro you should get into law.. you're 100% correct, the rule wasn't enforced the way it was announced.

[@Eddierath]

The way the announcer basically puked out "OLLiE IMPOSSIBLE".. 😂😂😂 I was like AYO WHAT THE F*CK.... ? Like a dam bird 🕊️ flying by trolling the skaters. They really smoking trees behind those mics.

[@Byneford]

Yooo a serious attempt at bringing this type of competition to the Olympics would be wild. You're right that it should technically be easier to judge than the current type of contests, especially with video replay. I can just imagine the mashup of styles between street and freestyle skating for this new event 💯🔥

[@cyberpingu1237]

Worth noting in Joslins case, his do overs weren't from toe drags. The first one was but the 2nd was the ref wasn't happy with the complete rotation of his 180. So what do you do in that scenario? He's burned his redo for a toe drag, but there's nothing to say that that's the only redo, just the redo for toe dragging.

[@citizenjubjub]

"...with Physics Girl, an indoor beanie, and a $150 designer t-shirt..." 😂

[@NefariousNews]

I would say a wrap would be performed from the moment following of the pop/scoop and rotating SOMEWHERE around the foot and guiding the rotation.

[@kylespevak6781]

4:10 Left is scooping, right is wrapping. It doesn't matter if the foot stays in contact or not, it's how you get the rotation. That's why pressure flips ate their own thing

[@VLSkate]

look ma im on tv! love this style video, wonder what other tricks you could delve into

[@the.thinking.failure]

My dude, this is amazing. Such detail and research. The Berrics needs to hire you.

[@JosephACampbellJr]

This Video Just Made my Whole day.. Thank You Data 🙏❤️‍🔥🍻

[@francoismartineau2519]

In contests, tricks are sometimes mislabeled. Also, commentator talked in the rush of the moment with an angle possibly different than the camera's.

[@WaitroseCarpark]

If you can select which nuanced way you want to do an impossible, then they deserve to be called different (adult) names. Thank you dumb data, we need this kind of trick breakdown. Loving your content ❤

[@baskra]

Monster flips are legit different trick to impossible they are really difficult They are also neither 360 hard aka fronside 360 flip OR 360 inward heel aka backside 360 heelflip as they are both rotating the board on 2 axis where as a monster flip only rotates on 1 axis But still really cool video and id love to see a full Olympic game of skate that really would be inase to watch and cheer everyone on but like you said they really do have to get the rules down and keep to them

[@Eurynomos326]

I like to watch this channel and imagine that the whole scene cared this much about SKATE. Like, attaching gyros and GPS in to skaters boards so we can decide if they got enough rotation on the correct axis. Contact points on their shoes so they light up on a toe drag. And yeah, flatground at the olympics. It would be a nicer world, probably.

[@almightyIrie]

"if your opponents wraps the impossible" - and that's why keeping standards and definitions is important even in something as freeform as skateboarding. Impossible is wrapped (and close to vertical in my mind), everything else is is just a 3 shuv. EDIT: I've never seen that zero flip thing, but it's fuckin lovely.

[@saladz3657]

The best part about name debates is the people who can do them don’t seem to really care what you call it.

[@StoneAquatics]

Jason calling those impossible has me rolling 😂

[@extremespartan117]

Try doing an unpossible. You simply put just enough pressure to rotate the board vertically and SLOW the rotation of the board to prevent any flips. It's like a vertical pressure 360 shuv. It's not impossible, just uncommon

[@RKLS90]

11:05 LOL I finally got a feature in a Dumb Data video. My life is now complete

[@Alskie666]

Before I even knew what a kickflip was or seeing any pro videos when I was young I always wanted to do the "zero flip". Pretty cool to actually see it landed

[@DanksSativa]

I learned impossibles in the 90's by accident, sometimes my back foot would get stuck under the tail when doing a pressure flip and when I would try to get it out of the way it would do a perfect impossible wrap. For me impossibles always started as a pressure flip then the centrifugal force of the board wrapping around my foot did the rest, I don't see how it could be an "impossible"without the wrap from the pressure flip to start it off. I'm only halfway through the video so I don't know if it gets brought up yet, but without the wrap isn't it a monster flip?

[@RoyalSkateCrew]

amazing. Now do the fakie 5-0/fakie nosegrind debate

[@sinikoncar7838]

One way to reduce the chaos would be to have only one or two really good and consistant referees who take their job really serious. I mean, the way they're doing it now is almost a joke and the reason for so much frustration. They should make up their mind: Is it a serious competition or not.

[@punkrockpirate08]

“Me fail English? That’s unpossible” - R.Wiggum

[@shainedupuis2649]

I've always thought it was weird that they'd even have to specify the wrapping. I've always believed that was implied with an impossible. That's literally the only thing differentiating the two tricks. A wrap is defined as - your foot staying in contact with the board throughout the spin. Edit: that "zero flip" is indeed an off-axis 360 pop shuv it

[@KaiDown]

Bono and The Edge need to wrap a lot of impossibles

[@tenofhearts99]

Mans said a whole ' three-hundred and sixty degree pop shove it '. This is how you know skateboarding is an Olympic sport.

[@SUPASPENCE]

There’s a community of old heads that use the term ollie impossible and 360° pop shove interchangeably

[@Sos-Rambo]

The worst part of the wrap rule is it does not say gets a chance for redo if not wrapped. And skaters shouldnt get a redo on a trick they didnt do. if i do a double kickflip and you do a kickflip thats a letter .

[@Lantement]

Man, you don't know it for now but in few years you are gonna be one of the judges of the first battle in the olympics.

[@magicskyfairy69]

great analysis. Another controversial trick: dolphin flip. It's just a weird varial kickflip. fight me

[@matthewkrellwitz8973]

Garrett Hill has a crazy front foot impossible… it rotates vertically while fully wrapped.

[@hrrld]

Don't agree w/ everything here, but you make a great point about the olympics - wear a uniform and be judged subjectively is not what skating is about. Give me Griffin driving international kids to new levels of flatground consistency any day. Great video as always. Keep it up!

[@solidbluebrian]

The rule should just be: “you must wrap your impossible “…

[@nizumablader]

If it requires a different technique to complete the trick I would classify it as a different trick. If someone does a kick flip and someone does a hand flip the result of the board flipping is the same but it isn’t the same trick despite the outcome being the same.

[@DanksSativa]

"Me fail English? That's unpossible!"

[@javier6283]

The issue lands with Berrics. Terrible job with determining a ref.

[@jsk8et]

The Berrics is kind of between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, games of skate in the streets usually come down to the honor system and the offensive player’s willingness to allow a land if it’s sketchy. They want to stay true to that informal competition. On the other hand, they have a ref and rules, presumably because they want things to be fair and fun and they’d rather not grow beef between skaters in the tournament because of a game’s outcome or some trick controversy. But there are also a tournament winner and a prize, so fairness really matters. And because this is a big event, favoring the defensive player makes for longer and potentially more exciting games. In the case of impossibles, I think the grip wrap around the toe is the key part. If the board stays on the toe for more than half of the rotation (preferably more, obviously), I think it’s enough to count for games of SKATE.

[@ballzz2thewall]

On offense they should have the rule that you say what trick you are going for and then attempt it, this is to avoid bad impossible turning into 360 shove its unpunished.

[@xavierrivera9130]

Does mullen have an android? My king

[@Skaterstee]

The board must wrap over the laces when the trick is set, 3 shuvs get a redo if a 3 shuv has already been set and you intended to do an impossible. There, fixed it

[@f0ggy22]

being in college currently, monster flip is still on top

[@rightrounderman]

Am I the only one who got a wrapify ad right when he said , "what is a wrap?"

[@Steez.E27]

Love your videos and usually only have positive feedback but i gotta say sometimes you read into things a bit too much. Like the way the impossible rule is worded, although slightly cryptic, is pretty self explanatory and clearly just means that if opponent on offence wraps then defence must also wrap. But i must give credit to you because reading into things too much is what makes your content so interesting

[@allstopblue5717]

Exactly. Everyone knows what it means. Reaching for criticism with that one

[@zeragon7]

Everything about this video is perfection.

[@citystars1117]

I can’t stand when a mf says they are doing a “plazma flip” or tries to say that’s a different trick, it’s so annoying and mad cringy. Like it is literally an impossible with a dumb stance. So your doing an impossible but standing like an idiot so it’s not even grounds for a “fancy impossible” it’s just a dumb stance impossible. Anyone who considers that a different trick or a new trick is out of their mind.

[@joshuadansby2874]

But there is a body 180 involved in the "Plazma flip" "Impossible" the body stays in same position

[@Myfavoritecolorisyou]

If you're on defense and you do an impossible but the guy on offense already did a 360 shuv...It should be null Defense can't dictate which trick is done. Offense commands the trick

[@larsdepauw2484]

6:12 Shane's Imposterble haha, that's gold

[@supermarcoa]

The inventor of the trick, Mullen explained clearly: impossible is about rotation around the middle axis. This is perfectly fine (mathematical) definition which has no subjectivity in the interpretation. The wrap is just an easier way to implement the rotation, not fundamental. It's surprising how many people cannot understand that easy concept. It cannot be confused with 360 shov because the axis of rotation is different.

[@dannycastro7465]

13:57 “tragically titled” I’m dead💀

[@evorobin]

Agree the motion of the board is more important than the wrap. Example a Mctwist has to go over not just a horizontal spin.

[@morganconklin8849]

No wrap, no impossible. That simple. No wrap is a 360 shuv because board will not flip on x access without guidance.

[@mr.lienhoop6813]

“Your opponent” in the verbiage is inherently seen as the one setting the trick

[@thoomish3556]

Bring in some judges that aren't well known comp skaters, that know the difference between a 360 shuv and a real deal wrapped impossible (that shit needs to be glued to your foot (not your toes) and as vertical as you can make it, this is the big leagues) and we will see this fixed. Also the rules must be ammended to say "if your opponent does NOT wrap their impossible, it will be considered a 360 pop shuvit, because we all know that's what it is"

[@beatifulrewind]

Preach sir , Ty for the time making this piece ❤

[@joshuadansby2874]

Great video & yes All types of games of skate need to be in the olimpics/street league.

[@markbryanpo]

I guess the best front foot impossible (unpossible) for me is Garrett Hill's and I really appreciate how you explained all these variance. Ollie impossible sounds kind of weird though. I guess I have not seen pressure impossible yet. lol

[@weevilsnitz]

to me impossibles vertical flipping wraps, not one or the other. Even in non-competitive skateboarding it is useful to have clear distinctions so we all know what we're all talking about. I would never count an impossible with the zeroflip, and wouldn't count a zeroflip with a straight up and down monster flip.

[@jackrun666]

never thought a vid about 2 tricks could be so interesting, fun watch

[@SuperYouvid]

Dude, with an impossible the rear foot causes the board rotation; 1st 180 rotation with an inward scoop and 2nd 180 with an outward & or upward nudge with the rear foot to cause the board to rotate further. An Ollie variel ( how I know pop shove it) is rotated completely from the Ollie motion from the feet and the board spins underneath the feet.

[@PanekPL]

"KZbin skateboarding legend Rad Rat" bahahahahah :DDD with that pause after he said it

[@taLLdavidproduction]

I dont see how the controversy even started. If it didnt wrap its not an impossible. Period.

[@broerie]

I just love nerdy analytical skateboarding videos

[@tonytaormina4759]

could call it Axis flip

[@Bigpoppacoocoo]

hey DD, do you maintain a database or, did you create one? are you using spreadsheets?

[@project_matt]

Are we sure this isn’t just Gifted Hater with voice fx?

[@dijisza]

Super interesting. I’d suggest that a wrap be defined as the skater using their foot to apply a moment on the board in the direction of the board rotation for at least 50% of the rotation. In this way, one could wrap a 360 shove it, and I wouldn’t consider that an impossible. An impossible would be a wrap where the underside of the board is mostly facing up at some point in the rotation. And a flip along the Y axis still needs a good name, although I don’t hate monster flip, personally.

[@jaad9848]

BATB: Does awful rule following and makes game of skate look bad ESPN-X-Games : "Hold my beer"

[@amoebacakes]

Wrapping the board around the foot is the trick .... the rotation of the board is incidental. The wrap was the mechanism Mullen used to approximate the rotation he wanted, thus impossibles are wrapped. round 89/90, impossibles were wrapped and our shoelaces were destroyed because of it.

[@endlessvoid7952]

Do you even share the data you’ve collected for these videos? I’d love a copy of the spreadsheets or whatever