Dune Imperium Rise of Ix - Leader Tier List

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[@Ilovetoplayjazz]

Cool to see another tier list. Thanks for the post!

[@orski78]

You’re welcome!

[@brandenlingerfelt2767]

Hey Harrison

[@Ilovetoplayjazz]

@@brandenlingerfelt2767 hey man

[@DanMTG]

Awesome video would love to see more videos about cards, tech, tiles and combat too

[@orski78]

Thank you! And I definitely plan on it, they just take more time to write up/produce so they come out slower

[@Yacovo]

Thanks for the video.

[@footsoldier1468]

Nice vid, I’m new to this game and found this very helpful Thankyou.

[@orski78]

Glad I could help!

[@mecenasandrzejbudzynski597]

Very nice video, love stuff like this. I hope You will do more tier list maybe about technology?

[@orski78]

Thank you! And yeah I think that’s a great idea

[@smoothrivera1928]

Great stuff man! Next game I’ll have to try Ariana or Helena, they sound solid!

[@orski78]

You should! They’re a lot of fun with unique play styles

[@AkmalGameAtion]

solid tier list

[@cjanquart]

I ran the Earl (first time playing) and got a seat on the high council on the second turn; got a loan from CHOAM and asked the emperor for some money and start of second turn got the seat. Funny bit was I always used the dagger card to go on the council spaces.

[@FlorisDVijfde]

I find Ilban Richese underrated here. Early game he can get some extra Solari with the Ring which helps for the Swordmaster. You're simply not going to use his ability until you have that Swordmaster but it's powerful afterwards. Just like you're not going to use the Duke's ability until you get the Swordmaster, better to sell 4 spice to the Emperor.

[@Marcel_tov]

true, I won a game the other day against two experts (it was my 8. game of DI tho) with picking Ilban for the first time ever. taking the mentat and using constant carddraw gave me 3 spice must flow in the final phase and an extra point from a intrigue. also, I managed to play all the good cards with all that carddraw. not the best still, but probably c or b tier

[@jeckles]

He's at least as strong as Paul but more keyed into the card draw game.

[@FlorisDVijfde]

@@jeckles I'm not as hellbent on the Swordmaster anymore for every character so am not sure whether you should wait before Swordmaster. Early Mentat is pretty much always available so you can have the best overview on the battle. Could be worth it depending on the spoils of war.

[@severijndw]

You're valuing resource generation signet rings a bit low. Sure, you get 3-4 of that resource across the game, but most of that is paid out in the first 3-4 turns, too. The early spice or card is very valuable. As for dreadnoughts, they let you convert an economy advantage to a military advantage and in practice it means you don't need to fight as hard to win conflicts. If you commit late in the turn, you are essentially asking your opponents to overspend a little into each conflict. It's pretty useful. The downside of dreadnoughts is that the spot is expensive because you need both solari and spice because you want the two uses from the spot. This makes the dreadnought spot compete with swordmaster, mentat or high council. It's something for turn 3-4 if you want one of the other upgrades first, so with Vernius you might be trading an action or two over the game for your military advantage if you want to use your ability first.

[@FlorisDVijfde]

I've even sent an Agent to Dreadnought after I already bought the maximum of 2 Dreadnoughts, just to get Tech and that draw from Richese -). And those two Dreadnoughts dominated combat very easily. Easy to forget about the Defensive bonus though, so many rules...

[@nickbrutanna9973]

In my experience, dreadnoughts are limited in significance. Many of the intrigue cards make a mockery of almost everything else as far as combat goes... Get a few cubes in there, then drop the intrigue cards on it. Boom, you go from 3 (6 swords) to 15 swords with no warning to your opponents. I had a battle where I managed to drop like 8 cubes in there vs. 4 for everyone else. I also had a 7 sword intrigue card. I did not even use it because even with it, I DIDN'T EVEN WIN SECOND. One stinking point is rarely going to give you anything at all. The dreadnoughts don't even begin to compare with extra actions or extra persuasion. The dreadnoughts are broken as insufficient. They are a fool's game. It should do something more serious, like add one to each CUBE put in. Which makes sense, they back up and add to the firepower-effectiveness of your troops. }}} And those two Dreadnoughts dominated combat very easily. Then your opposing players utterly failed to comprehend how to do battles well. I'm going to bet they never took more than one or two of the intrigue cards all game. The peeps I play against usually pull most of the deck through by the end (no, they rarely had more than three, either).

[@severijndw]

@@nickbrutanna9973 I am curious: What lead to two players jumping over you? You are at +8 strength over everyone else. With your card of +7 (the only one that adds that much strength), you are at +15. The average conflict combat card that adds swords adds just below 4 swords. There are only 5 conflict cards that add a potential of 5 swords, and they all have conditions. For two players to jump over you, they must have had either upgrade tiles that add to their total, lots of swords in their reveal turn or very fortunate hands to cover the 15 strength gap between you and them. Anyway, intrigue card spots are hotly contested and you're only 1/4 to actually find a card relevant to combat. The thing dreadnoughts do is that it adds to tilt the scales in your favor across the game by one, and you're losing less units throughout the game, too. This is not enough to win conflicts on its own, but if you amass a couple of additive effects like that (like a treachery you reveal often because you don't buy many cards and dig rapidly through your deck with Paul Atreides), you'll be dominating conflicts fairly often. I did this Paul Atreides strategy with an early treachery, a dreadnought and the flagship tile and dominated any conflict where people didn't dump a bunch of cards to try to get on my level... and I had a conflict card too to blow them out.

[@wouterluijten9033]

People also forget that dreadnoughts are not just there to win the conflict. Sure that’s nice, but my dreadnoughts more often than not are used to freely compete for second place paying back for their cost handily. Also, you might not win combat, but me sticking in a dreadnought forces you to commit 2 troops to contest. It dwindles down opponent’s garrisons while you happily build up your own.

[@afrose71]

Nice review, just had to watch at 3/4 speed to understand what you were saying. You should be a bid caller at auctions.

[@ValKillYa]

I got proposition for next video. Get BlackShadow, CJ and others to discuss possible balance changes for all leaders. I would love to see that :)

[@boogiewuu9025]

Hi guys, first of, thanks for the list. Lets take this ranking for granted, what buffs and nerfs can be made to bring the leaders closer together,while making as few changes as possible. My suggestions: Nerfs: Baron ring ability costs 2 instead of 1 solari Duke Leto ring ability costs 2 spice instead of 1 Buffs: Rhombus cross out the -OR- on his ring ability and if you guys think he needs further buffing his Dreadnoughts have 5 Power Ilban ring ability gain 2 instead of 1 solari Thorvald ring ability gain 2 instead of 1 spice. Please let me know your opinions on that

[@julienlaurent6361]

Good job, the emperor agree with that list.

[@MatthewPeters-u1r]

Nice list! I would bump Ilban to tier B and lower Ariana to tier C. Also, I love Helena but I think she is only A tier (unless she can reserve Jessica or Kwisatz on the first turn). Being unblockable is very strong, but getting round 2 swordmaster or high council is usually better. Any faction that can get swordmaster on round 2, without needing to win a conflict, automatically should make tier B imo. Re. Ariana, In a very competitive game everyone will want research station, so having the extra water isn't as critical if you can't go there. Also Ariana can struggle early game to get economy if smuggling and wealth are frequently blocked off, whereas other factions can get spice instead. Archduke Armand-Ecaz probably deserves C on average, but if he can start the game by getting artillery, or some really nice cards with his signet ring (hello sayyadina, in the shadows, gene manipulation, choam delegate etc..) on the first round then he is more like A-B tier.

[@geokami6793]

Honestly you undervalue Ilesa quite a lot. Her signet is really strong early on because although you pay the solari (which you take from her passive) will allow you to essentially go anywhere without spending a card thus have more persuasion to buy better cards early on without passing early. Her early flexibility (and essentially extra persuasion) game allows you to setup a really strong mid game definitely not the best character but defiantly higher than what you rank her IMO.

[@orski78]

Hey! I definitely stand to be corrected. We’re still early in the meta and I’m sure the tier list will look different in a few months. I’ll be playing more games with her to get a better feel as well

[@EternalSushiMusic]

@@orski78 Actually won with Ilesa today! I managed to get essentially four Foldspace! I focused on a faction-heavy strategy and rushing early Swordmaster. The multiple foldspaces made sure that I could access these places whenever I needed, and more frequently than others. Had three points from conflicts, one or two alliances, and a tech that gave 1-2 VPs and I managed to rush to endgame while the others were still at 6/7! Surprisingly useful, those Foldspaces!

[@que-tangclan5856]

I just had a game with viscount vs Leto and beast master I found my lucky draw with signet ring with viscount really worked in my favour . I enjoy that character a lot

[@orski78]

Congrats! Those last draw victories feel awesome when they happen

[@DanMTG]

Studying and scrolled down to the comments. Yeah you dominated the shipping track!

[@markslater8529]

Looking forward to a re-ranking now Immortality has been released.

[@arivald6677]

00:10 unsubscribed, uninstalled youtube and throwed phone into sea. That's like my favorite character in the game nowadays. His game style is super fun.

[@omant7115]

Peoples opinion about leaders are shifting as time goes by. After first tournament Ariana and Hundro were considered medium megh and now are way more popular. Vernius time will come...

[@hidden-assets]

lol Arivald

[@orski78]

We need soldiers like you to keep him alive 🫡

[@omant7115]

@Nachtmahr is one of them.

[@barnabyalsop5601]

I think Rhombur is subtly better than you give him credit for. Having won with him (albeit in a 3 player non-pro game) it dawned on me that the strength of his signet ring is underrated. He can essentially ignore the normal tech space and just abuse spice spaces and the Choam track to rack up techs like crazy while dumping troops into combat. I managed to gain 5 techs in the game (granting me a vp, extra troops in combat, 4 swords per combat and 1 persuasion per round) I dominated the battles in the mid/endgame and never bought my swordmaster (although I did get high council and some great cards) It was a blast - but I never bought a Dreadnought hehe

[@matthewpannell7268]

Where did you get your game upgrades?

[@stanisawgroovie8096]

Love this content. As a new player I learn a lot here, thanks. Just one question - when You play as Ilesa Ekaz and buy foldspace from ring you add this card to your hand or deck? How this works?

[@jasonblack1705]

It goes into your discard pile and then you shuffle it into your deck to draw on a subsequent turn.

[@stanisawgroovie8096]

@@jasonblack1705 Oh ok so is not that good... Thank You!

[@orski78]

Yeah exactly, I’d definitely value it more tho if it gave you the instant foldspace card in hand

[@Miklaous]

Wow, that's a big surprise for me. I thought Ilesa was S tier. I got so many resources from her, it felt so broken, we banned her. Eventough i never used her ring. It's nice to see a different perspective and I learned a few things from this video.

[@xavier-ey9xl]

1. ariana falls with immortality because people want to play experimentation, so triangles get much more crowded + not so many bonus spice. 2. Rhombur is OP with spy satelites + detonation device. I had a game without swordmaster and got 16 VPs, because no one can beet him at end game in conflict. his ring synergies buying the techs so it's not that bad.

[@stevenbonham7136]

I always struggle with the mentat spot. I know it is an extra action…but you are burning the original action. Is drawing an extra card really worth it? Sorry for the noob question. Really enjoyed the video, makes me want to really dive into this game.

[@orski78]

I find the mental is most helpful when you’re looking to get involved in a combat. In that scenario it lets you go last and thus you can commit troops after you see your opponents final moves/reveal turns. Otherwise the card draw can be nice if you’re hand is bad or maybe you’re ecaz and you want the extra action so you can still trash a card with your base ability while going to a faction spot. There are a lot of niche cases where it can be helpful but in general if you’re just doing it for the card draw and you already have a decent hand I think it’s a waste of solari

[@ganema9]

@@orski78 I tend to want to use cards with Agent Actions to go to the Mentat space, stuff like card draw or otherwise, just to get value out of playing as many cards with Agent Actions as possible. Especially if I run a bunch of Bene Gesserit cards.

[@hinny2005]

Quick question guys help settle an argument. If you forget to say for example to move up on the influence track after landing there but realise next turn you should have moved up once would / should you be allowed to move it up retrospectively? Along them lines if you forget to collect say a water or spice, for a action / turn and you remember later are you allowed to pick up later? Where do you guys draw the line on mistakes / forgetting to pick up resources or tallying up / moving up on tracks etc?

[@orski78]

I’m usually pretty lenient with that kind of stuff and I’ll allow the late collection. I will say collecting rewards in Dune Imperium is not optional so you could make an argument that you’re entitled to the rank/water/etc. I’m not sure if there’s an official ruling on this though.. there might be I’m just not aware of it

[@MydasNeomagie]

I used to be a Rules Advisor for MTG. So anytime something was forgotten, if it was a "may" then it would be skipped, and if it was a "must" (non-optional), it would get done retroactively.

[@jacobarto1946]

Great content! Is TTS the software you show the game on? If yes, could you link where to subscribe to get it?

[@orski78]

Thank you! And yes it is. If you watch the first half of the video it’ll explain exactly how to get the game up and running: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6KpoYGLrdKGfNE

[@jacobarto1946]

Cool, I will check it, thanks!

[@jasonblack1705]

Great content sir. Love the Dune books and love this game. One quick comment - I have been enjoying the dreadnoughts in the last couple games. Easy way to get second and third place rewards, while forcing everyone else to make continuous bigger troop commitments if they want to win the fight. I agree that Leto and Ilban are the way to go to maximize value over Rhombur though.

[@hidden-assets]

Rabban and Ilesa can R1 buy a Dread. It can be worth it to get Detonation devices with a dread. Points are points and you gotta take what you can!

[@orski78]

Thank you! I actually just started reading the books because I enjoy the game so much, really good stuff so far. I will admit I’m the least familiar with combat strategies in this game as I usually lean towards influence/spice wins so I definitely stand to be corrected on my dreadnought opinion

[@jasonblack1705]

@@orski78 Right on! Messiah is probably my favorite as great as the first book is. I hope you continue to enjoy them.

[@arivald6677]

@@hidden-assets Ilesa can't buy it. You get solari after you use your card and to go to drednaught in the first place you need 3, so Rabben is only one that can do it turn 1.

[@hidden-assets]

@@arivald6677 Oh yes, you're right. The others can do it though! :D

[@fan-i-am]

Is there an unofficial/fan errata for Prince Rhombur? I would LOVE to see someone come up with a tweak/fix for him!

[@orski78]

Not sure! I know there’s a pretty active forum community for the scene over at boardgamegeek, someone may have written something up about him there

[@nickbrutanna9973]

So -- consider: What "house rules" could buff the four D/F track leaders to make them worth playing? Perhaps not making them A/S, but at least B/C... Would like to see some suggestions/ideas...

[@MydasNeomagie]

Vernius dreadnoughts should cost 1-2 spice instead of 3 Solari (try both variants); Memnon gives two Influence anywhere when taking the High Council.

[@20052143]

What suggestion would you have for playing with house rules to boost the F-E-C leaders to B-A-S Rank?

[@MydasNeomagie]

Vernius dreadnoughts should cost 1-2 spice instead of 3 Solari (try both variants); Memnon gives two Influence anywhere when taking the High Council.

[@wehubbard]

You could probably bump up Tessia, given how good she is against Baron in the first position.

[@orski78]

I was definitely tempted too, although idk if she deserves S tier just yet. Maybe some meta developments will launch her up

[@MrRichieHK]

How many times can you trash cards with Archduke Armand? 8:24 every time? I just had a game where i got 2 smuggler-copters (+2cards) and with this guy, it was crazy. It feels you can do it more than one times. But just to be sure.... :)

[@20052143]

Hi, I am watching all your videos now that I found your channel, could you make a ranking based on your findings? Becouse I watch a video about how many times they where pick it up in tournament and shows that really Menon and The price are weak, can you do a rank based on those results?

[@Julien_Game_Design]

Is there more or less a consensus among very experienced competitive players (say at least 25 games with Ix) about the leaders tier? I know even well informed players won't agree about details but I'd be interested to know if, by stats or valuable experiences, most recognize which are the best and worst leaders. (and no, "I once played this guy and won" is no valuable data). What do other well seasoned players think of it? Thanks ;)

[@orski78]

Interesting you ask that, we have a tournament going on in the community right now and a group of people have been tracking all of the stats from the games. Should be a good sample size given the structure. That’ll give us a more objective impression of which leaders are doing better in competitive play

[@Julien_Game_Design]

@@orski78 Great! Do you know when those stats would be available?

[@MeepleonFire]

@@orski78 Really interested in those stats too :)

[@DuGStp]

At least you can try to counter-play Leto a little. But he essentially shuts down alliance focused builds for all other players. That’s a huge part of the game, with lots of cards that have faction icons losing value for all other players when he’s in the game. Faction bumps in shipping become risky. Some tech tiles too. And that’s just his signet ring. Kinda busted character.

[@brandonbiondo9208]

Preamble: New to the game. Please don't laugh at me. I'm trying to think of a way to make Dreadnoughts (and by extension Rhombur) actually good without breaking the game. What are your thoughts on a house rule where you change MUST to MAY place a dreadnaught on a space when you win a conflict? Then you're looking at that power every single turn. Too strong?

[@orski78]

Hmmm honestly not sure, probably too strong but it’d be worth testing out

[@hinny2005]

How does baron deploy 4 troops on first turn going to hardy warrior as that only allows you to deploy 2 troops?

[@orski78]

Hey so hardy warriors is a combat space (has the little X in the corner). So in addition the two troops you get from going to hardy warriors, combat spaces allow you to also send in two troops from your garrison (if you have them). So you end up getting 4 total troops in at once, 2 from hardy warriors and 2 from your garrison

[@hinny2005]

Never mind I get it, you start off with some troops. We setup game wrong.

[@jlinterman]

@@hinny2005 Missed it too first few games

[@walkeryeatman2775]

You have to use the card to get the benefit from ilesa

[@orski78]

Yeah I just don’t think it’s that good, could definitely be proven wrong though we’re still early in the dune meta

[@walkeryeatman2775]

@@orski78 Yeah, it's even worse than described as you can't reliably get spice from it. The foldspace isn't *terrible* as it lets you basically float a single fold space basically at will, but they are really bad in multiples so eh.

[@crookedwookie8782]

Why is there a lot more spice generated with the Ix expansion?

[@lioneddy]

More good action places to go on the map (the absolute number is the same but the action spots are more balanced now). This means the spice harvest actions are less contested + there is a new action spot where you can get 2 spice.

[@joramhartmann7101]

I think from my experience yuna ist also s Tier.

[@daniellane6299]

I thought I accidentally had the video sped up a few times throughout the video. You talk extremely fast. Good tier list though

[@reyvagabond3344]

The count it grate because you want trashing cards to get a lot more cards that you think. You can get a deck of 10 good cards that you can draw all of them all the time and the swordmaster is overrated for him. You can end a second turn and buy a 8 card. It's all about trashing.

[@Wolcik3000]

I would love to know the tier without the expansion :P

[@hidden-assets]

Whoa...Ariana A tier?

[@orski78]

She’s VERY undervalued right now imo

[@hidden-assets]

@@orski78 I like it! Let's see some more Ariana play! Comon people!!

[@orski78]

Agreed!!!

[@NATOnova]

yall should make a collab once the imperium cup is over and stats are researched

[@greenapple559]

My wife destroyed me 3 times in a row with Count. Ok, we’re just learning, still, having a 2 card draw (+ 1 mentat) is strong late game when u have plenty money.

[@RPGbudgie]

No way Ecaz is C-tier. Strong A.

[@kevinmace]

It’s possible to win with the prince. I played him once and won. You have to commit to using dreadnots early and tech. The right tech. You need cheap tech displayed early. And you need some good cards to draft. I had both dreadknots by the end of round 4 which gave me at least 8 in every battle with no risk of losing any troops. Allowed me to get 2nd place in almost all battles and cost me nothing.

[@orski78]

Oh yeah it’s definitely possible to win with everyone, and don’t let me discourage you from going a particular play style. Dreadnoughts are a lot of fun and can get some free 2nd-3rd place rewards as you said

[@5lowburner]

This would’ve been a great video for improving players, but the garbled narration made it very hard work, and it wasn’t comprehensible for me until i set playback to 0.8x

[@HospisNineveh]

I had no trouble, wasn't anything like Steven Seagal mumbling lines