Dune live Q&A with Quinn

[@AltShiftX]

Thanks for watching! Subscribe to Quinn's new podcast: www.youtube.com/@CosmicChroniclesPodcast

[@kubhak]

Man i was looking for something to Fall asleep and your thing Just pop up i love both Channels so Helllll yeaaah

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

Cheating on Glimbus

[@VVEGA2940]

Alt schwift x would be furious

[@konstantinospetrakos2536]

But that’s another KZbinr isn’t?

[@zaklopopolo4366]

Nah you’re thinking of alt Schwift x, this is a different bloke

[@sebb3301]

I love how this is the top comment

[@GreenGocco]

True

[@Sattva468]

Whenever your 2+ hour live Q&A's come out I always get so much housework done puttering around & listening. 😊Great episode, two of my favorite voices & content creators! Thank you!

[@tirzahgayla]

Just did the same thing! So grateful my whole living room is spotless now tysm for the content

[@SpirusOfH]

That idea of viewing the trailers as prescient visions of what could happen or could have happened in the story is one of the most interesting pieces of media analysis I have ever heard. I love that idea so much, even if it's not intentional!

[@georgel760]

fentanyl much?

[@RealisticMgmt]

I completely forgot about Count Fenring being invisible to Paul’s prescience. It makes so much more sense now that they’d keep him hidden from promotional materials. Great stream!

[@CollinAlekson]

They’re probs not going to have him in the film. Would love to be proven wrong though!

[@Ryuk45]

@@CollinAlekson Tim Blake Nelson has been cast in an undisclosed role. Lady Margot is confirmed to be in the movie, played by Lea Seydoux. Nelson HAS to be playing Fenring

[@CollinAlekson]

@@Ryuk45he did a podcast episode of WTF with Marc Maron and he mentions he’s has a role in Dune Part Two but he describes it nothing more than a cameo. I’m fairness, both Fenring’s roles in Dune were small, so Tim could very well be the Count, but I guess we’ll see

[@Snorg-bq3xq]

FURTHERMORE Tim Blake Nelson yodels and fenring and his wife have that sing songy secret language that just seems perfect

[@Aps1218]

Feelings character was so inconsequential he can easily be left out of the movie

[@pseudonymousbeing987]

I get CHILLS thinking about the idea of Paul having visions of the imperial entourage and taking in every face, Shadam, Irulan, the guild... then when it comes to actually happening and there's a similar shot but suddenly Fenring stands where nobody stood and it's terrifying. He could be SUCH a compelling final obstacle. And that's why we wouldn't see him with Margot on Geidi Prime, it would preserve the surprise of his presence and slap even book readers across the face. Just imagine.

[@asterozoan]

Woo, two of my favourite youtubers on one stream! Love it!

[@jimmyb2655]

I can contribute my love for Dune to Quinn. He got me into the books. Read them all in a summer, couldn't stop. Quinn's deep dives and discussions really help reign in this massive story. I feel like Part 2 was always supposed to be a big, explosive, movie. There was so much in the Dune book that was eluded to but not described in detail; many skirmishes and battles that Paul leads that are just a footnote in a long, thought filled, chapter.

[@yshwgth]

Please keep inviting Quinn, your conversations are the best!

[@HamzaBoujelouah]

I'll say this in regards to Dune Messiah. I think for sure it can work as a film it just needs to be restructured a little. Show the atrocities of Muad'Dib, really delve into Paul, Chani and Irulan and their dynamics and end off on the gut punch of Chani's death. Part of why I loved Messiah was how tragic the ending was. Will it be pleasing to general audiences? HELL NO! Will it be a brilliant piece of cinema? With Villeneuve at the helm- FOR SURE!

[@theomnitorium7476]

Adapting Messiah would definitely be a challange given that barely anything happens in the books other than people talking or thinking. But I do admit: I would loooove to see the stone burner scene realized on the big screen.

[@AngelHernandez-yj8tj]

Couldn’t agree more. Absolutely love Messiah, it’s my favorite book of the series.

[@jamessmith7205]

QUINN IS THE OG, love both of you guys!!! ✊🏾 🌈

[@tirzahgayla]

love his scifi book reviews, esp into Three Body. Wish he'd do Macroscope by Piers Anthony; he'd love it.

[@tirzahgayla]

I went to a Brian Herbert book reading at Borderlands Books and he talked about the origins you mentioned as well. He said his dad Frank based Jessica on his mom (as is well known) and I asked if he had any experiences of his mom being telepathic or in any other way resembling the character of Jessica. He had such good examples of it including one in a public place with an automatic? hand dryer with other people too. It was so fun and so cool to hear. I know a lot of people hate on Brian but it was a really great book reading. He stayed for hours and there were only like 7 of us so he got really in depth and took time to answer all our dumb questions and we even went way off topic talking about all sorts of things and he was into it and really fun. Nice guy.

[@charlesparr1611]

I have heard the same thing, that he's bright, fun to talk to, a good speaker, as you say a really nice guy....It's sort of unfortunate, the guy knows a lot about his dad's work, obviously cares deeply about it, and he just can't write very well. He doesn't have that spark. It must be awful to have all the ideas, all the desire, all the love for the stories and simply not be able to make it work. It doesn't help that the poor guy's dad is a writer and storyteller so skilled that he manages to make Dune, a complete disaster that should NRVER have worked, turgid, slow, often silly, and yet Frank Herbert's genius fills it and turns it into one of the greatest works of sf ever written. There aren't many people in history that could have 'taken over' the story from Frank Herbert, and I won't hate on Brian Herbert for failing where almost nobody could ever have succeeded.

[@m_ylane]

Oh damn, this is exciting!!! You two together is prime content

[@TheChronozoan]

No, this is KZbin.

[@DDR131]

Quinn understands Villeneuve and movies in general much more than other Dune channels, especially much more than Secrets of Dune, that dude is always complaining.

[@tirzahgayla]

Quinn is so flippin smart - love his channel and how he explains everything in detail I enjoy without feeling talked down to. He wouldn't criticize me for ending that sentence in a preposition. ha!

[@Bonerstone]

Couldn’t agree more, he understands how the movie must be different from the book in some ways to be great. What makes the book perfect cannot be translated to film and so that’s not what denis should focus on.

[@JohnFourtyTwo]

Quinn does quite a bit of complaining about other franchises especially when he’s berating them against Dune. His Dune knowledge is very good but when he talks about other franchises it’s very clear he doesn’t understand them at all nor is he very knowledgeable.

[@jkostelac]

The irony of Dune fans gravitating towards one influencer over another is delightful.

[@Ripcode2233891]

Interesting.. which series in particular do you mean?

[@tirzahgayla]

I'm a huge fan of Quinn's Ideas - saw an earlier collab with him on your channel previously. So glad to see you working together again. Love how clever both you gents are and also listen at times to Quinn's buddy David LIghtbringer. Great you all are in contact and please let us know when you're in the bay area again as I would've loved to see you when you were here in Alameda a couple years back. tysm

[@barryhercules7588]

Also a fan of all 3 channels

[@tirzahgayla]

Nice!@@barryhercules7588 I'll definitely say hi if I see you on any of their live streams - fun!

[@fidanguliyeva519]

Oh, that was unexpected but very welcome!! Love your streams/podcasts Shift & Quinn! Meanwhile, Schwifty boy clearly tries to mimic these impeccable streams with Gladiolus, such amateur

[@robstewartstewart98]

Just would like to give a big shout out and thank you to Quinn. A couple of videos of yours I watched some years ago are what sent me down the rabbit hole of ASOIAF/GOT theory videos. Discovering Preston, David, Joe Magician, Hills Alive, Nettles, Greyscale Tim, Glidus, Alt Schift X……was all thanks to you! Thank you!

[@Bonerstone]

Holy shit 2 hours of dune

[@mechtheist]

In Texas we have mushrooms that mostly grow out of cow patties and they trun blue where injured like the stalk where boken. It's usually after a rain that you go looking for them, it's really cool when you find them growing profusely.

[@agustinorero1668]

What an amazing Duneverse talk between two of the most knowledgeable people in KZbin. Please, make this a recurring thing.

[@tirzahgayla]

I love all the adaptations of Dune because I love Dune. Seeing other interpretations of it widens my mind to what it means and what I missed. Other difficult to understand books low budget adaptations help me understand them better as well. I fully encourage all low budget interpretations of anything because the creators help me learn and have fun and so do we.

[@claris108]

This is such a nice and refreshing attitude to see, as opposed to all of the people who keep saying stuff like "they RUINED DUNE by making Kynes a woman / showing Jessica crying / changing Shaddam's hair color / etc." It's like dude, the books will always be there, part of the fun of an adaptation is seeing a fresh spin on things. So many people have made up their minds and hate a film that's not even out yet, just because it doesn't conform to their idea of what it should be like (exactly like the books). IMO the changes are what make the films interesting, and it'd be quite boring if nothing was changed in adaptation.

[@tirzahgayla]

ikr i loved the crazy costumes including the hats in that adaptation just because it was scifi and who cares they let the costume dept go nuts@@claris108

[@godofmath1039]

Quinn's Ideas is such an underrated channel that I got excited when I read the title of this video. Great collab!

[@PeregrinoZensunni]

Been a Dune fan for decades now and somehow you guys were still able to come up with really interesting takeaways that I never sow before in this stream. Paul's constant visions of infinite horror desensitizing him from the violence he commits is somewhat obvious but I just never thought about it

[@aliud9904]

Ayyyyyy I was hoping to see yall collab again!

[@j.sargenthill9773]

you both are among my favorite subscriptions. stories i was already enjoying have been enriched by your videos, and it would be impossible to list all the information i never would have known without each of you.

[@kanekitchen]

I love listening to alt shift x and I especially love when Quinn joins in. Excited for all the upcoming content. Cheers fellas

[@jessn9125]

I loved the 2000s mini series. Even the weird hats remind me of old 60s sci-fi mixed with the renaissance but the costume Irulan wears with the butterflies dates the series…. Along with CGI as you’ve mentioned.

[@trolledchaos6531]

I really needed this today, thanks bros

[@kp-legacy-5477]

WOAH TWO OF MY FAVOURITE LORE CHANNELS TOGETHER? CANT BELIEVE I MISSED THE STREAM

[@patflann29]

Cool full circle moment here: I watched both ASX and Quinn’s ASOIAF’s content over the years but kinda stopped just as time went on. Watched Dune 2 last night, now here I am for the two of them to talk about the lore and story again 😂. Cheers boys

[@Joanbueller007]

49:00 Paul and Eren are so similar in his character arc and powers that i doubt Isayama didn't took inspiration from dune

2h+, didn't get boring any minute. And got sooo many spoilers, blame is on me :) superb chat/discussion/podcast congratulations both of you.

[@MarkArandjus]

Thank you ASX for shouting out The OA, one of the most wonderful and imaginative shows Netflix produced and they killed it mid-story.

[@bd1482]

I love you man. The way you explain the stories. It gives me a hardy.

[@GeekofMordor]

Quinn and Shift in one video. Epicness

[@ranchu85]

Narrative blue balls!!! This podcast is just intellectual gold, love it.

[@wills.8662]

Awesome. A new Alt Shift X video with Quinn from Quinn's Ideas

[@twhiteofrd_1102]

I wonder if the Chani dilemma can work with her choosing love over her culture because it mirrors Paul's choice to turn away from the golden path. In the end, they both make the easy path and end up sacrificing their culture/humanity because of it.

[@syalem]

about the invincible comic, it's more like an anime than watchmen, it's fun and dumb and pulls some surprises every so often

[@Falpastymonster]

"Narrative blue ball" a phrase I never thought I'd hear! Tremendous!

[@carterf3585]

I think y’all are fundamentally wrong about Messiah not working as a film. As long as they show the atrocities of the jihad, the ending is sad and haunting and perfect. Paul loses his last remaining connection to his humanity, realizes he is a slave to his prescience and that he has become one of history’s greatest monsters, and walks into the desert to die alone. Audiences may be shocked and upset, but it’s an ending they will remember forever.

[@Snorg-bq3xq]

So drax is gonna fight thanos

[@tirzahgayla]

I just saw Frank Herbert's house go on sale here in San Francisco so it's really fun to learn what you said about his taxes and interpretations of property - ha! A friend from Germany couldn't grasp how outrageous US politics got in 2017 until I explained part of the problem is how big the US is and how hard it is to govern with federal vs state rights among other things. When I showed her the size of Germany on a map compared to Texas including population she clicked on how hairy bureaucracy can get.

[@wudimusic]

omg a Quinn&AltShiftX colab :O it must be christmas

[@jonathanmonterosa6956]

Quinn and Alt shift X are awesome! This video made my day!

[@yggdrasil2]

Köseman is is actually currently rewriting All Tomorrows into a new version.

[@OmnipotentO]

Such a great, nerdy discussion

[@hanasaurus]

missed the stream but excited to watch -- love listening to you both !

[@tirzahgayla]

Not including the big boss 'blue ball' fight as you describe it lol is even better because letting those kinds of fights go is ultimately so much more rewarding in real life. Even if you wanted to beat the poop out of them, walking away as if they're not worth the effort is so much more rewarding in time. 'In time' is the key because we don't see we've won until time has passed. There's always a bigger fish so walk away if you can.

[@stephaniemoore9122]

Dune Messiah will be when Chalamet gets older it may be a combination of some of the books

[@imanamerican8662]

That’s going to be an extremely difficult movie to make well. Unfortunately I think that messiah would be last film made. Beyond that I’m not sure if mainstream audiences would necessarily understand or enjoy god emperor as well as the rest of the books. I love dune but it gets weird as hell and pretty damn morbid.

[@Shamman_komanch]

You could think of it as a companion piece you can read the book for the inner battle and the movie for the spectacle.

[@ian59vest]

Now that the movie is out I think the way Alia was incorporated was the best part of part 2

[@milton_foward]

Damn i'm a huge fan of you both! I got to Quinn because of Dune, but then he got me into so many good novels. I'd love you to cover some of them, like the Three Body problem or Cage of Souls, i think they'd fit your style.

[@Insanepie]

I really hope we get messiah because it would be such a subversion of a stereotypical sequel that big franchises usually get

[@therexinator7139]

Thank for a great stream from two of my favs ❤

[@adamg4912]

1:18:50 For the board gamers, I'd strongly recommend Dune: Imperium. It's also not the easiest game for someone who has only played UNO & Monopoly but it is much, MUCH easier to get into than the classic Dune game.

[@eddybaro7170]

I love these live vids! Keep the great work 👍🏾

[@ReegSkywalker]

So glad someone brought AOT to the table because Eren and Paul are soooo similar and god it's so so so good.

[@neutral_narr]

Idk they both seem like different characters to me

[@ReegSkywalker]

@@neutral_narr to me they're similar in the fact they both have visions of the future that they kinda act upon on, without really understanding then or the consequences that much and doing bad things in the name of a greater good. The rumble on AOT and the Jihad on Dune

[@neutral_narr]

@@ReegSkywalker I see the similarities but there are key differences. I feel Eren was more about exploring free will while Paul was about the dangers of blindly following a charismatic leader.

[@RhodokTribesman]

Eren is much closer to Leto II imo. They both see and act upon a horrible future of genocide, planning to be seen as a villain and (willingly) getting assassinated to unify the world/universe

[@NicolásSánchez-z5y]

A song of spice and liars xD. Makes perfect senses. Of course Martin would have like to write something like Dune. He was a sci fi writer.

[@TCTCyou]

I think the best way for me to have dune messiah adopted into a movie is start by having Paul walking around dune and have him have flash backs into how he met hayt how chani dies and how all the plots were against him Or have pieces of flash backs And ends with Paul walking into a cave

[@jenny_of_oldstones3523]

They actually showed the IMAX version on HBO due to the pandemic. I have no IMAX nearby & honestly I have an auto immune disease so there was no way I could go. It was great released it on HBO. Iknow its not the same but i have a HUGE tv and was able to see the whole thing. West World's soundtrack was "MUAH" Chef's kiss!!! I think Trent Reznor did the soundtrack (don't quote me on that I just remember listening to the music and recognizing his touch. I KNOW he did the soundtrack for the Watchmen (fucking BRILLIANT the music.. show too).😊🌛🌚

[@jw9485]

Westworlds soundtrack was Ramin Djawadi (same bloke who did GoT) Hard agree it was incredible

[@jenny_of_oldstones3523]

@@jw9485 Well then Reznor did some of the music then. I definitely recognized his piano playing. Maybe they did some collab? Have you heard WW sound track... Oh God it's so good.

[@jw9485]

There is one cover of a NIN song in Westworld S4's soundtrack, but otherwise I'm unaware of Reznor being involved in the composition of the series

[@rageintothelight]

I feel like DV puts a more realistic vibe into scifi kind of like nolan with the batman movies. It makes everything seem like it can happen which i love.

[@cannibalholocaust3015]

Just finished the book whilst listening to the audiobook. I understand now why adapting it is so difficult. It’s very cool that the Emperor is very powerful but also totally dependent on the Guild and subject to manipulation by the Bene Gesserit.

[@tkorreck]

The scene in dune messiah with Scytale, Edric, Irulan and the Rev mother is a top 5 scene IMO. The audiobook version of the first couple chapters of messiah is A1

[@permaprost]

1:12:10 I feel like an idiot for not thinking of this but this blew my mind! Many thanks!

[@schadowizationproductions6205]

the two OGs on Dune on yt

[@proofofmyexistence]

I love these videos so much.

[@Christopher-oh2di]

Glad your botb doing a video together

[@j1mmysp1der]

Spices relation to mushrooms comes from Frank's book the santaroga barrier

[@0hn0haha]

I got something completely different than intended by the author from dune. The prophecy is fulfilled, just not how anyone expects. Paul does become quite literally, the Lisan al Gaib. It might have been intended as a manipulation, but it turned out true - from the perspective of the Fremen, it is 100 percent fulfilled. Jessica thought she was making it up, lying, but she actually said the things to fulfill the prophecy, therefore making it a true prophecy. Paul does lead the Fremen to paradise, to expansion and conquest, spreading their line into every civilization, but this proves to be their unwitting demise - this does not negate prophecy necessarily. He, whether on purpose or on accident, manipulation or not, ends up fulfilling the prophecy of the Haderach, of the Mahdi. Judgement is wrought. As far as moral lessons, i saw a different lesson, one that has more to do with an accidentally Christian take on the messiah. Whereas many 1st century Jews thought the mashiach would be a warrior king, the Christians understood the same words of prophecy to mean the Son of God coming down, dying physically, and then resurrecting. Dune ends up asking "what could happen if the Mashiach was a human but prescient king, a super king, a Lisan al Gaib, the Mahdi? We see the result to be destruction, death, suffering, bloodshed in the end. It would be conversion by the sword, genocide, spreading the message of the faith and setting hearts of all, even thf followers, against the Mashiach - at least, according to Dune. It's accidentally a message about the wicked nature of man, being unable to save themselves and having to trust in grace - literally Christian theology of soteriology.

[@santovelaga]

2 great youtubers❤

[@elwinMMA]

This movie will leak online before the March release. They already made copies for the award season.

[@bings2867]

i was born at a young age

[@energyc23]

That’s so kool KZbinrs coming together 🔥🔥🔥

[@elwinMMA]

I hope they'll release the movie with the first one in front.

[@bronnyz0z0]

Dude you should do some book summaries more often, like you did Hamlet earlier

[@notribadsvault]

With Chani, I think it depends on whether they keep Leto 1.5 in the plot. If her child is killed then I could see her not caring what needs to be done similar to Paul.

[@AllyRowan]

I often wondered whether the lynch version guild navigators was a link to hod emperor paul. Like an in between of the evolution. The worm is the full evolution but the guild is on the path because of spice. I know that the worm is because of the sand worms but i can see some of the influence being drawn though.

[@elilovesmetal]

It's based on the description of Edrik in messiah

[@tirzahgayla]

I didn't know they were expanding Chani's role and also the Empress'. Marriage always seemed like such a trap to me because not a lot benefits the woman. It seems so much more beautiful to choose every morning if one wants to stay with their partner as opposed to being locked into it. I think Frank really underestimated how great Chani's character could be and hopefully Deni updates both these female characters future, esp after all they lost or gave up for Paul. This seems like such a great topic after the Barbie movie came out - have either of you seen it? It has such positive outlooks for everyone regardless of sex ethnicity age socioeconomic status etc. Super fun too.

[@bennygerow]

Lol found the feminist

[@tirzahgayla]

lol found the arsehole@@bennygerow you do realize feminism means equality, right? why do women (or other minorities) being equal to men scare you?

[@petrfedor1851]

2000 miniseries was shoot in Czech Republic and it will never not be funny to me seeing all these Czech actors I know there.

[@Fatality0999]

Alt, have you ever read or heard of the Metabarons comic series? It’s very Dune-esque, obvious since the writer was Jodorowsky.

[@Questionthis1]

I heard Messiah got confirmed

[@ianperez6258]

Aw dang I missed it!

[@victormeunier9075]

I wonder if the fact that Shaddam used Fenring to murder his father will come up. Quite the awesome background character indeed.

[@Jedishill680]

Paul’s Royalty, his flaws effectively don’t matter to Chani

[@andrewcarlkunze]

Please talk about the orientalism of Frank Herbert's writing on the Freman and how the new movies are handling it. I do not read Frank as Islamophobic, but there's definitely exoticism in his descriptions of characters like Chani, Stilgar, and Freeman culture overall. Personally, I don't mind the movies removing Arabic words, Islamic references, etc., because it often made me cringe while reading. Very interested in your thoughts.

[@Firmus777]

Paul Atreides did nothing wrong! Muad'dib! Muad'dib!

[@lillianasanchez5984]

2:02:44 Paco Rabanne fall collection 2020, can't be a coincidence....

[@jenny_of_oldstones3523]

@AltShiftX @Quinns ideas You should see her in the "White Queen" She plays Elisabeth Woodville/ Queen Elizabeth wife of Edward IV. You see where she pulled quite a bit of Jessica from. A woman who loves her children without reservation but also very ambitious, magical (drama)... Watch it GREAT STUFF!!!! The books are by Philippa Gregory and yes they are about the lives of the WOMEN during the Wars of the Roses. They made GREAT not cheesy miniseries though. Think GOT (tv) with respect for women (though I'll admit there's quite a bit of nudity I don't really find it gratuitous especially between Edward (who is played by Max Irons) and Elizabeth who were MADLY CRAZY in love. The story is Ed & Liz were hot & heavy (though he was probably some kind of sex addict) till the day he died or close to it. 11 children.....

[@LeoSkyro]

Everybody always calls Dune's ending anticlimactic, because it is, but its story isnt The thing because get weirded out by is the fact that the big climactic battle is completely skipped so we are just left with the descending action and a short intense duel, and a short ending thereafter But insert a big 20min battle sequence and all that goes away Can't imagine how this eludes the mind of most analysts and reviewers talking about Dune

[@connerschupp4543]

I’ll be waiting for the next meeting between you that will come out a month before Denis’ next installment in his Dune series.

[@jimmyb2655]

what if Arrival was a secret tie-in to Villenuve's Dune world. and that creature was a guild navigator, from the future, that took a wrong turn somewhere and saw the past and was like "im going there" Totally not, but hey, fun to put them together right?

[@0Hammerhead0]

Irulan's outfit isn't armor. It's totally ceremonial

[@tb1974]

I hope that they show how Jessica transformed the poison in the water of life into the aphrodisiac.

[@avengercannon]

The sad part is that the 80s movie won't be topped

[@burntorangehorn]

What. I always though the spice (not water) was the analogy for oil. It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever for it to be water.

[@palemoonlight96]

Two legends

[@ShadowofSound3]

The simplest way to adapt Messiah, children, God emperor, etc.… Would be to simply title the future adaptations: Dune part three, Dune part four, etc.

[@Adameshh]

Please please get back to this with 2

[@elenhin]

I get that it's not good using civilians as cannon fodder etc, is there an alternative I'm missing though? Just lie down for the Harkonnens and not fight back so they can wipe everyone out with no resistance?