The Kwisatz Haderach Explained | Dune Lore

[@TheLorebrarians]

Which Dune characters or topics do you want to explore next?

[@Sometuy11A]

Definitely more on the titans and Omnius.

[@84knucks05]

All of them!!! The honored matres, the mentat order, the buttlerian jihad!! You do a great job breaking them down!!!

[@starhawk3657]

Omnius as well Duncan Idaho

[@JeffreyBernabe]

GOD-Emperor

[@Fireflash83]

Duncan the man Idaho legend sword master undieing the life eternal

[@thattrickytrickster612]

Here after watching Dune Part 2. I'm absolutely enthralled by this universe, and I've been waiting for a video like this! Thank you so much!

[@cernunnos_lives]

I felt that way when I first saw the Lynch film decades ago.

[@Emanon...]

Be careful if you start reading the books. But if you do, welcome to the rabbit hole, brother.

[@seanhewitt603]

YOU HAVE TO READ THE BOOKS.(voice...in print)

[@karenshort3880]

You should read the books. They have so much more information about this.

[@Beecher_Dikov]

Ummm...you would really like the book then, because the movie only scratched the surface and changed some key facts. It completely ignored Paul's little sister Aliya, who was a powerful witch as a newborn and was the person who ultimately dispatched the baron. The fact Liet Kynes (a man, not a woman) was Chani's father. The relation of sandworms to spice. The savagery of the Freman. The weirding module that was the reason the Emperor wanted to wipe out the Atradies to begin with. The perversion of the Harkonen, notorious pedophiles and diseased homo sexuals.

[@johnmckiernan2176]

Maybe the real Kwisatz Haderach was all the spice we snorted along the way? I mean the Fremen friends we made along the way. The Fremends.

[@danielclark-hughes692]

Desert Power aka Fremendly fire

[@Sandux930]

Blue cocaine 🙏❤️🙏

[@nikolapetrovic87]

When joe

[@Schanxxx]

What? Lol

[@brownboyben]

The Fremends we snorted along the way?

[@CabbageDisplacer]

"Kwisatz Haderach" in hebrew: קפיצת הדרך Is a saying that means "Moving quickly from place to place miraculously"

[@13nash2mvp]

Yeah. I waited for someone to notice it. It’s in Hebrew. A modern Hebrew

[@Joe-xo4yg]

Sure it is You sure you didn’t just Israeli it? Like Palestine? How about the fact that modern Hebrew exist by the grace of many words it lend from Arabic? Google it It’s true.

[@ugi0909]

​@@Joe-xo4yg Israel population is 20% Muslim, not to mention thousands of Druze and the fact almost half of the Jewish population spent thousands of years in Arabic countries, suffering lynches, pogroms and constant discrimination, before escaping to Israel as refuges in the 20th century (it's funny how you, nor anyone else, don't seem to care about these refuges from around the same time and about the same amount as the "Palestinians" refuges). So despite the propaganda you’ve been fed, Israel is one of the only places in the world where there’s real integration between the western world and the Arabic world, and not just Muslim ghettos or complete assimilation and loss of the Arabic culture. Most of our slang is from Arabic, some from Yiddish, just like our culture is a mish-mash of west and east, and that’s one of the things that makes Israel special and interesting. Nobody in here thinks about “you Israeli it”, it’s all nonsense pushed upon us by the Muslim dictators using the Arab population (in Israel, in Gaza, and all other the world) as a way to fight Israel and the west and to easily control their own population. Don’t be sheep, learn a bit more, maybe even come to Israel and see the truth for yourself.

[@leonscott543]

​​@@bloodaonadeline8346Native Americans never had "country or nation" either. Not being designated by Western empire as a "nation" is not a licence to colonize peoples generational motherland at will

[@w0tnessZA]

@@leonscott543you're trying to explain things to people who have no eyes to see and no ears to hear bro.

[@anastasiosgkotzamanis5277]

The greatest benefit of the Kwisatz Haderach finaly arriving (for the Bene Gesserit mostly) was teaching a great lesson:NEVER AGAIN SUPERHUMAN MESIAHS! NEVER! Paul's son made sure the lesson lasted forever.

[@thomaswatson1420]

You forgot to mention the Bene Tleilaxu admit to creating a Kwisatch Haderach before, and that he went mad and I believe ended his own life.

[@dtly50]

He saw what was needed to complete the Golden path. Paul was strong enough to endure it, but only Leto II was strong enough to complete it.

[@thomaswatson1420]

@@dtly50 Paul could not do an “evil” thing while knowing it was evil. Leto II being born fremen had the ability to choose between evil and thus could live with his fate.

[@awakenow7147]

@@thomaswatson1420 "Paul could not do an "evil" thing while knowing it was evil". Perfectly described.

[@henrikg1388]

A very well made video on the subject. I will not mention my opinions about the Expanded Universe, except for saying that you even present those parts with more credit than they really deserve. 🙂

[@AllyrionWW]

I would have liked there to be a disclaimer: Possibly not canon. But the video was extremely well made and scripted so little complaint.

[@84knucks05]

All these dune breakdowns are amazingly well done!!!! Please keep pumping them out!!!

[@alchemicalsoul]

No different than Neo in Matrix. You become the one when you integrate the anima ad animus. The masculine and feminine aspects of your energy/internal archetype. You can use your head and heart, logic and intuition to determine outcomes. It's transcendance of the ego.

[@tacboy78ify]

I had no idea how intense dune gets!

[@RGSCOTT]

This old man, He played nice, He played knick-knack Stoned on Spice. With a Kwisatz Haderach Give a dog a bone: This old man rides Sand Worms home. 😉

[@anthonyjay767]

This world doesn't deserve you😂

[@Ascension_144]

Brilliant 😂

[@oleghrozman4172]

I bet you: Frank Herbert studied and was inspired by a jungian psychology and Carl Jung's ideas, no doubt. I more then sure that Herbert took this idea of "Kwisatz Gaderach" from one of Jung's books, because in one of his books Jung was writing and talking about very similar super-human being which can use similar abilities.

[@balung]

Remnant Radio KZbinrs just did an episode of man's inate abilities, esp etc.

[@michaelchan2568]

"And how can this be? For he is the Cuisinart Cadillac!!"

[@nkyryry]

Problem I had with the movie was they didn’t really flesh out motivations. The Bene Gesserit purposefully bred Paul. Maybe he was a generation early, but why is that such a big deal. They created him and then wanted to control him. Paul did NOT want to become the Mahdi. Then he drank the water of life and did. The motivations for it all just aren’t explained well.

[@denishiarobinson860]

Paul wasn’t meant to exist. That’s why the Reverend Mother goes off on Jessica and tells her that she was only supposed to birth girls. They wanted to mate that girl to someone from House Harkonnen. That’s why they say they have other prospects if Paul didn’t pull through and that house Atreides was on their own and they did all they could for them.

[@Shelly-cp7gj]

Holy cow, had no idea. That’s a lot to take on after only knowing the films. 😮

[@tdub6542]

yeah the book will explain more in detail lol

[@jahleajahlou8588]

There is a Gnostic lore pertaining to Adamus described as a "super human" who when originated and expressed from the SOURCE was vested with the authority over all 1,000 elements in the "outer creation" which he uses as a "vehicle" of awesome power. Able to control both the atomic properties and the light quotients (angstrom components) meaning able to go anywhere, any conditions, in this entire creative paradyme at will.

[@OwnedEpicStyle]

Sounds gay

[@docwhiskey996]

​@@OwnedEpicStyleit's scrotumers gay. Its both gay and not gay. Right now its being gay with you.

[@Lord_Ralph]

@@OwnedEpicStyleWho knows? Maybe Adam was. It's no like god gave him any choice... 🤣🤣🤣

[@natos2334]

Sir, my colleague asked you, if you’ve used any drugs…

[@Lord_Ralph]

@@natos2334Only the best 👍🏿

[@malachiXX]

Paul wasn't unable to see the Golden Path. He saw it clearly. What it entailed and the sacrifice he would have been required to make, that Leto II did make, terrified him and he turned aside to become the Dune Messiah. At the end of Children of Dune, Leto II shares that his sister avoided abomination by not taking the water of life but Leto didn't. He was exposed to large doses of the water of life and due to his male Other-Memory, he needed to contact one of his ancestors and make an alliance with him to keep the multitude at bay. Nowhere in any of the original 3 books was it mentioned that Leto II was a "pre-born aware", like his aunt Alia. Where is that stated? Duncan Idaho was part of the original story depicted by Frank Herbert in all 6 stories written exclusively by him. He was NOT a creation of Frank Herbert's son and both he and Miles Teg are described as POTENTIAL Kwisatz Haderach's but both agree neither would ever risk it.

[@OneEyedJack1970]

TheT-probe agony broke Miles Teg over to the other side. At least, that's how it seemed to me.

[@malachiXX]

​@@OneEyedJack1970 That is correct although I don't recall it being 'agony'. I'll have to re-read it. It was a form of control that was 'learning' his responses so that it could eventually control him, since pain was almost useless as a tool against someone with his conditioning due to his mother's Bene Gesserit Training early on. But instead it ended up awakening his "new metabolism" that gave him enhanced speed like nothing anyone, sisterhood or honored matre, had ever encountered before. In the next book (Chapterhouse), Duncan and Miles are discussing how they have something similar to "Other Memory" and how the observers must now consider them at least potential Kwisatz Haderachs but they both say "Of course we would never risk it"

[@qwerty81808]

@@malachiXXin the T-probe scene Miles mentions the extraordinary pain many times, and even wonders if it is similar to what the Reverend Mothers go through in the spice agony. Also, Leto II and Ghanima were both definitely pre-born. It was due to their genes and the extraordinary amount of spice Chani took during her pregnancy to counteract the secret contraceptive that Irulan was feeding her. Other evidence for this can be seen in other places, for example Paul was in mental communication with Leto while he was still a newborn. Additionally he and his sister are described as delving into their ancestral memory as a game together where he would take on the memory ego of Paul, while his sister would embody Chani. There’s a scene in the book where Ghanima almost is possessed by this ego memory of her mother. And correct me if I’m wrong, but Leto didn’t endure the spice agony. He was just force fed a ton of melange (which he and his sister had carefully avoided their whole lives). Ghanima didn’t avoid possession because she avoided the agony, but as a side effect of the self-induced hypnosis she used to convince herself that Leto had been killed by the Laza Tigers

[@qwerty81808]

I’m also not sure what you mean by the “original” three books… Books 1 through 6 are all Frank Herbert originals

[@qwerty81808]

The ontological argument for why they were both pre-born is that both were at risk of possession, which is only a risk for the pre-born like Alia and the twins

[@bobbobertbobberton1073]

The Kwizatz Haderach is Leto II, the person that could follow the Golden Path. Paul even admits to Jessica in the Fremen tent, while escaping the Harkonnens, that he was 'something else' when she asked if he was the Kwizats Haderach stating that 'he'd come too soon. Its also stated that the 'Kwizats Haderach was not what the Bene Gesserit had assume it to be.

[@asceticblur]

It's Leto Iv as Paul's Father is actually Leto II and Paul's first child murdered by the Harkonens is Leto III. Furthermore both are Kwisatz Haderach because both saw the Golden Path but Paul rejected it because of the absolute horror it entails. I won't spoil "God Emperor of Dune" here for those who've not read it but believe me when I say that Leto IV only chooses to walk that path because it was the only survival option for himself and his twin sister Ghanima. The results of that choice cost him everything.

[@bobbobertbobberton1073]

@@asceticblur Not to be a dick but can you re-write your comment it grammatically makes no sense. I'm desperate for a debate I love dune. From what I understand of your comment, only Paul and Leto !! say the golden path. What I am saying is that the Kwisatz Haderach is merely the ability to actualise the golden path. The reason why Paul couldn't stomach or brave the Golden path is because he wasn't meant to bare it, nor could he because he came to early. There is a reason why Leto II had to undo all that Paul did because Paul made himself a god and Leto II knew that he had to be the emperor god for the golden path so he had to destroy Pauls mythology and destroy the fact that Arakis thought he was a god because Leto II needed to be scene and be a god for the golden path. I'm drunk so I hope this makes sense, I'll check back tomorrow but I'm obscenely drunk and high on cocaine. If anything I have said here makes sense then I'm somehow a genius.

[@andersj91]

SPOLER ALERT: While Leto's oppression and the scattering put humanity on the golden path, Duncan secures it. Thus him being acknowledged as the ultimate KH at the end (yes those books were written by his son but they were written using Frank's notes... @rizzo1215 @@bobbobertbobberton1073

[@hm02fly75]

I've only read up to Children of Dune but as I understood how Leto described his situation made it sound like they were both KH. Leto described Paul's shortcomings as him being unable to make the necessary sacrifices despite being able to see the golden path because he was not raised as a Freman. It did not align with his own moral compass to make those sacrifices(sacrifices I'm not entirely sure of because i haven't read god emporer yet) for the greater good. So it sounds on a physiological level they both had the same potential unless I'm misunderstanding the end of Children of Dune.

[@asceticblur]

@@hm02fly75 couldn't sum it up better

[@BlandoGaming]

Fantastic overview. Very much enjoyed listening to this.

[@NewGoldStandard]

This video is great. Thank you for the time and effort necessary to produce such quality.

[@snakething87]

“We’re going to breed a god.” “Then what?” “We’ll put a leash on him.” Brilliant strategy ladies…

[@ndhickson3599]

Big brain move right there 😂

[@nemanjap8768]

It wasn't like that tho, they didn't expect a person like Paul cuz Paul shouldn't have existed

[@xxcridonxx7614]

@@nemanjap8768they expected someone like Paul to come a generation later. The only difference was that Paul didn’t grow up by the sisterhood indoctrination. He grew up as an atreides rather than a bene gesserit. Mother mohiam didn’t even believe Paul would be one at the start

[@Clyde-S-Wilcox]

Phase 1: Create Kwisatz Haderach Phase 2: ????? Phase 3: Profit

[@kellyem2160]

Honestly, having read the books at this point - I get why they casted Jason Mamoa for the role of Duncan. :'D

[@Mrfaixyy]

Why ?

[@AC-hj9tv]

​@@Mrfaixyybc 🍆

[@austenhead5303]

Share with the class.

[@nikkiberay4903]

Cause he's a big oaf

[@Blackvolttage]

​@@Mrfaixyyobviously spoiler for later books (and likely for the third movie) although Duncan Idaho died in the invasion of dune his cells were collected to make some clones - "Ghoulas" - of him. And those clones have a huge part on the stories later on.

[@khafuzteref8831]

Finally someone who has really taken a closer look at the source material. Emperor Paul Atredes Mentat Emperor or The known universe.

[@Sometuy11A]

I’m enjoying these more frequent uploads. thank you!

[@Trapstarpat]

Literally just clicked on… but that thumbnail is fire

[@ggdynfytugfy6892]

I’m actually really interested to see if the BGs could control a KH if one came about within their plan. It shouldn’t be impossible to instill a KH with your philosophy and ensure he follows your will that way, but I’m not sure the BGs specifically could pull it off

[@rizzo1215]

In the books the KH could only see two outcomes survival through the golden path or stagnation and eventual extinction to whatever the HM fled outside the galaxy. Paul failed because of his fear and conscience. Leto2 being preborn was more mature than Paul could ever be. I think if any other person had become the KH they wouldn’t have been able to compete the golden path without becoming the worm. Kinda feels like Leto 2 was destined to become the true KH

[@happyslapsgiving5421]

Why would the Baldur's Gates control a Kingdom Hearts? 🤔

[@andersj91]

SPOLER ALERT: While Leto's oppression and the scattering put humanity on the golden path, Duncan secures it. Thus him being acknowledged as the ultimate KH at the end (yes those books were written by his son but they were written using Frank's notes...@@rizzo1215

[@Orca_mammal]

​@@rizzo1215ngl if I had I would be the most successful billionaire ever.

[@NotSoSerious69420]

@@Orca_mammalno, no you wouldn’t lmao.

[@solo1014]

Id like to review Frank Herberts notes for Dune 7 to see how Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson got from point A to point B.

[@melismadiddle]

I am reading through the books now and your videos are great refreshers! Thank you! Also more about Omnius would be awesome!

[@anothertarnishedone5960]

The more I know about Dune, the more im fascinated by it. Is science-fiction, but with the epic of fantasy novels like Lord of the Rings

[@BillZBubb]

I read the expanded universe books but you must have read different books than I. That’s not at all how I remember Duncan resolving the human/machine conflict. The story I read was far more ridiculous and convoluted resulting in Omnius being exiled to another universe. With the yoke of Omnius removed the machines could finally know freedom and individuality in a way not experienced in many millenia. This made them more compatible with humans and open to peaceful coexistence.

[@jahleajahlou8588]

Wow this is some very interesting dialogue !

[@BretHiggins]

The Golden Path resembles the Yellow Brick Road - when you stray from it you invite terrible circumstances. It’s interesting that the only way to keep humanity on the path is with the tightest of leashes.

[@PaulAtreidees]

I'm so happy that we will get Dune Awakwning game soon

[@Emanon...]

I don't know man. A lot of these one-note MMOs tend to very quickly burn out once the novelty wears off. I'm for sure not buying shit until I've made sure it's not a buggy half-assed project on release like 90% of the so-called AAA games out there.

[@ldshasnobrain]

It will probrably be shite

[@PaulAtreidees]

@@ldshasnobrain Wrong

[@NotSoSerious69420]

@@PaulAtreideesmust be pretty shit because I didn’t even know it existed LMAO.

[@PaulAtreidees]

@@NotSoSerious69420 Nobody cares if you knew or no 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@deceiver444]

This whole explanation was perfect.

[@Timelord2001]

So if the "great enemy" or future threat isn't just this vague "cold void of space," but instead the return of the conscious machines (and apparently, *not* from or because of the Ixians, but just of those that were routed after the Buttlerian Jihad), and the doom *they* represented, the good news is it does answer a question I've posed before to others, namely what was the threat. The only bad news is, it's a bit cliché and anticlimactic. After all, it's not like humanity or History had forgotten them! You'd think they'd be on the lookout for and even scoured the universe for any trace of them. Also, those with "vision" like Paul and Leto II should've been able to sus them out. It's not like the conscious machine society had the no-gene or no-ships to block prescience. How could they? They were out of touch with the whole idea of spice or its effects, much less how to block it. Oh well, it's better than having no good answer at all.

[@drippi2129]

Paul became the Quizrathastlebatt when he snorted too many lines of spice that turned his eyes blue. Its essentially the equivalent to Tony Montana sitting with a white nose and a white mound in front of him.

[@LeCheeZy]

Under Leto II the whole universe is basically a panopticon, a real old-testament style vengeful god.

[@BlastMaster-db4qp]

Witches try to make a man they can control….. fails horribly. Thats the kwizatch

[@Flyboy245]

Learning more every video. Fantastic as always

[@NervozniZivota]

The following comment might seem non-quizatz haderah-related, but could provide an interesting direction for general interpretation...: Harconnen= hara's cones (husks?), Corino= something about the heart, Atreid= descendant of Atreus (- father of Menelaus and Agamemnon, whose name is interpreted as "Fearless"...). Nice vid. 👍 Cheers!

[@alex.sanders]

amazing video!

[@Fireflash83]

Been fan since when it was only novels still hardky anyone likes it .but been a fan from the start . 10yr old me thankks my dad his dad for intro me to it all

[@MrEnjoivolcom1]

Earned a sub with this video!!

[@jeffwilliams6374]

Very well done!

[@TheLorebrarians]

Glad you liked it!

[@Cooky00123]

It’s the noise Frank Herbert made after. Long night of drinking.

[@uknowbass]

Amazing job

[@eaglesclaws8]

I do believe the original idea behind dunes great enemy is new thinking nano machines. The grey goo theory is what herbert would have been hearing his peers speak about when writing god emporor of dune

[@itzhaktzvishohat7490]

The "Shortening of the Way" is actually קפיצת הדרך (kfitzat haderech) in Hebrew. Cool.

[@talibanairport1544]

After you spurt it is known as the shortening of the willy.

[@Wilhelm-100TheTechnoAdmiral]

The plotline of Brian's fan fiction was the blue ending of Mass Effect 3

[@youdidnotslay-genz3555]

This was a great video

[@viarnay]

He is like a human quantum computer somehow

[@rizzo1215]

I think that’s a fairly accurate description. He wasn’t magical he was able to accurately predict the future based off the likelihood of a particular outcome based of a set of actions. So definitely like a super computer with all of human history as a reference.

[@johngreene7130]

His "Mentat" training 😊

[@dustinbingman382]

LETO THE 2ND IS THE BEST CHARACTER EVER WRITTEN

[@Tokeknudsen]

Thanks for the spoiler warning :D Im 200 p into the first book, but i look forward to return to this video 🏜

[@JWilson-up2eu]

Geez and no wonder i was so comfused. I thought the entire time i was watching Harry Potter and chasing after the "Quidditch"!

[@Keithjmcc]

Why did the Reverend mother protect Paul from Baron Harken? She must have suspected that a problem like this would occur. When he was tested whether he was an animal or human really the test was to make sure that whatever he did to solve the trials to come, the control structure wouldn’t be damaged. The class structure would be preserved, and the spice would still flow. Was she thinking that Paul would enlist the Freeman to be an army for the Benny Jesuit?

[@MortonGoldthwait]

What's so special about a Kwisatz Haderach? I drive a Kwisatz Lincoln.

[@funkoxen]

I drive a Nissan Al gaib

[@str.77]

Good video with many aspects but I am more than a bit irked by the constant abbreviation of "Kwisatz Harderach" to "Kwisatz" and similar with "Ersatz Haderach".

[@secretagent07]

This is by far... The best interpretation of Frank Herbert.

[@roberthaseltine5977]

Actually, the Gholas, Duncan Idaho appeared in Frank Herbert's Dune Novels, not the expanded Universe by his son, Brian Herbert. Other than that, thoroughly enjoyed your video. Thanks.

[@TheLorebrarians]

Glad to hear it! Duncan first appears yes, but doesn't embody the ultimate kwisatz until hunters and sandworms of dune

[@roberthaseltine5977]

@@TheLorebrarians Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

[@jaywellgate8304]

I thought that once the Ghola of Duncan had been created, Leto became aware the it was somehow important to his Golden Path. Didn't Leto have many many Gholas of Duncan made (and murdered many of them himself)? They were part of his own breeding program, which I think was to create the null gene that hides the one who possesses it from prescience. (Happens in God-Emperor)

[@spiralsun1]

I never knew about the Jewish myth. I literally have been writing a book, and first wrote about it in the late 90’s, about the path of gold. How everything is like gold mining. Even in high school I saw reading and movie watching as gold mining like Joseph Campbell spun his pan of water dipped in humanity. ❤😳👍🏻

[@MultiPets.]

I find it a bit naive to think putting humanity through 3000 years of oppression and fear will somehow persist and not be forgotten in couple generations.

[@Livingeidolon]

30000. And he did it for that long only because he had to make sure that there were enough people who had the special genes could pop up

[@wills2379]

⁠​⁠​⁠@@Livingeidolon it was actually 3,500 years. The no-gene is super important, as it shielded humanity from being scene by the use of prescience, but there is more to Leto’s Golden Peace than just that. The 3,500 years of enforced stagnation was also meant to imbue humanity with a desire to travel, adventure, and multiply, so as to increase the human population and spread them out to the point where their survival could never again be threatened. Additionally, because Leto with all of his memories was essentially the entirety of humanity’s past, his rule was meant to make humans stop turning towards some false ideal of past by giving them a past to run from, thus making them focus on creating something new and looking for new possibilities rather than falling into old habits and stagnation.

[@jeambeam3173]

It's similar what Ozmandias does in Watchmen. Humanity has someone to unite against mixed with Leto II wanting humanity to further expand across the galaxy

[@isessogroup]

A jacket you wear in north florida between February and June... its one color on the inside and another on the outside... has big pockets for concealed carry or fifths of henn and small pockets for bugga sugga, small knives and condoms you will never use. Can be folded into a pouch bag when the day starts at 35degrees and ends in the mid 80s...

[@Legostiks]

Lihsan Al gaib! 🙏

[@TheTechDweller]

The Bene gesserit always annoyed me after getting interested in dune recently. Like why do these super powerful and influential houses keep these women around? It seems so widely known that this supposedly secret order has their own intentions which include controlling blood lines. So why would you risk the power of your house getting involved with these women? I understand they're powerful assets, the only woman that it makes sense for is Jessica, she genuinely loves Leto and did not stay with him entirely for the sake of the bene gesserit, even if that was her intention originally. And yeah, they wish to bring about this ultra powerful being that they know will have complete prescience, yet think they can control him with sex or mommy issues? A demi-god being controlled over his emotional issues just never makes sense to me. I love the universe but it really baffles me how these houses became so powerful for so long. It took more than 80 years, and to be entirely removed from control of Arakkis for the harkonnens to realise that classic artillery is effective against the fremen cause they don't have shields. Logic behind the tactics around shields also bugged me. Shields attract the worm, but orthocopter shields don't? And if the spice harvesters are attracting the worm simply by harvesting, why not have a shield protect it anyway, same logic for any troops you have on the ground. Worm hears the massive harvester you're next to, your personal shield isn't making a difference surely....

[@avengedhotfuzz7499]

The orthocopter is in the air…. Should be pretty obvious why it’s shield isn’t attracting the worms

[@Emanon...]

The movie simply doesn't have the time to address all these things. It makes sense when you read the books. However you can always poke holes in the sci-fi worldbuilding...

[@sentimentist]

I don’t think they intended to control kwisatz haderach per se. he’d have the access to the female ancestral memories/knowledge of BG, so I think the assumption was he’d be a willing participant of implementing their plans for the future, that he’d be one of them. the ones they controlled with sex/mommy issues were the men they needed for their breeding plan.

[@lancelaurel3828]

@@sentimentistexactly. Even though the bene gesserit seeded many religious beliefs of a savior, they ended up being blinded by religious fervor and never realized that the kwizats haderach is gonn do whatever he wants to do

[@MsTammi125]

You should study statement analysis. Deception detective is the best on KZbin. Even the best story tellers have flaws. Nice catch. Never stop learning.

[@SweetSourPickle]

Dune has the most secular lore ever. Islamic, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism. So inclusive.

[@robertmonad1731]

Is that what secular means?

[@robertmonad1731]

Had to look it up. denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis.

[@SweetSourPickle]

@@robertmonad1731 my bad. English isn't my first language. I thought secular meant something else. Like combining religions.

[@nzingahoney]

​@SweetSourPickle love your humility

[@robertmonad1731]

@@johnmckiernan2176 I wasn’t trying to be mean. I think you were thinking of another word is all.

[@J666RR]

It literally means “the leap” in Hebrew

[@ye4864]

@@emalinepeeler9946I thought it was about the spice girls, thank you for clearing that up

[@alexsnewhandle]

5:03 what is he saying? "but to achieve such genetic stock is [?]"

[@veramae4098]

Took 90 generations to domesticate foxes. Trivia and shudder: Stalin started the fox program as a first step to see if humans could be bred to be more docile.

[@michaelking9818]

It was about foxes nothing to do with humans

[@mosheyahav4234]

From Hebrew: K-Fi-TSat Ha-De-Rekh. Meaning, literally, jumping in one leap over a long way.

[@MrMiz1113]

I've never read the books so maybe this is addressed there but did the Bene Geserete know that the Kwisatz would be able to see both male and female lines of genetic memory? If so, how? If the make side of genetic memory was an abyss to them, why would the female side not be the same for a male?

[@wolfer67]

Probably linked to chromosomes. Women are XX so only see the female half. Men are XY so can see both. Seems to tie into the genetic themes of the story as well, though I'm only one book in to the original books. I read the Legends of Dune first by chance years ago and didn't follow up on the story until recently with the movies coming out. Glad I did, Brian Herbert is a decent author but his father was a STORYTELLER.

[@willempasterkamp862]

Teacher of rightiousness ; James the Just

[@thatguy-gl3zl]

The shortening of the way.

[@AC-hj9tv]

Woman at 13:46?

[@zerocool5395]

The Quiznos hat-a-rat.

[@MaxQ2989]

If only memory of past lives was preserved in the DNA helix…but it’s not.

[@eaglesclaws8]

Look up epigenetics.

[@Rezafeild]

Kinda crazy how the matrix is just dune but if humanity lost. And dune still ends with essentially the second coming of jesus branching humans and machines.

[@sdqsdq6274]

wait what ? isnt the movie he drank the worm poison and spring tear the awaken of kwisatx haderach ?

[@jeambeam3173]

Damn you didn't pay attention at all. He didn't commit to the Golden Path completley so he isn't the K.H. and it was a generation early according to the Bene Gesserit predictions

[@patriciahayes2664]

The term "male Reverend Mother" is an oxymoron. 🤔

[@StevieB8363]

Bene Gesserit: "We need thousands of years of selective breeding to produce a superbeing that can access both sides of the genetic memory and unlock super-powers!" Me: Reverse-parks in one move. Bene Gesserite: "Sheeeitt!"

[@Esandeech2]

So Paul was not the KH? Or was he? I mean he drank the poison and survived, he gained visions so.. I’m confused.

[@calebvincent8759]

He was but its not something where theres only one chosen one. There can be multiple but he was the only lisan al gaib, because he liberated fremen.

[@claudemaggard7162]

This series is so freaking confusing. I swear they have to over think every thing.

[@dhwi]

so is paul kwisatz hadersch?

[@michaelking9818]

Yes show it at the end

[@greatidea7808]

Dune is a very strange world indeed.

[@prosimion]

I grew up near Tacoma so I should know ...this is a true story. ... you're welcome.

[@JosephRocco-mi4cm]

Sorry, if it didn't happen in a Frank Herbert book, it didn't happen. Duncan and "Omnius" merging? 🙄

[@sdqsdq6274]

whats crazy it took so long for someone to take the remake a dune movie

[@jeambeam3173]

Better to wait for perfection then have it be ruined if made too early. As written

[@professorJorge11]

The story of the messiah ( lisan Al Gaib) was planted by the Bene Gesserit

[@imperiumpilled30k]

The witch's accidentally made a bunch of guys who are the main characters in their life's work and stories then got ass mad when they balled the fuck out, pretty on point behaviour for feds that's very funny

[@EmeraldAriell]

Lady Jessica was in harkonnen time 🤭🤣

[@nintendoconvert4045]

The fact that there is more than one makes the story convoluted.

[@danielshultz8008]

Its in Hebrew... It means jumping the road ..it does not have a literal meaning..but youcan attribute it evolution or elevation...in the sense of overcoming a trial

[@tomdeluca5946]

When paul embraced his fate he trapped himself inside of it and became a slave to it even though eventually it will end up killing him in my opinion you always have an option and can and should make your own choices

[@benjaminghazi787]

Wait what are you talking about?? He does have an option…. And he takes it. He doesn’t follow the golden path. He chooses to exile himself because he doesn’t want to go down that path. Instead he lets his son Leto II do it.

[@apocalypsator6]

Paul is a complete psychopath.

[@The-Anti-Zionist]

He heard that

[@claudemaggard7162]

Is he really .

[@fbl902]

Spoiner for Dune Messiah: If the Bene Geserit survivors of the Spice Agony can only access the memories of their female ancestors, how is it that Alia remembers, and is untimately taken over by, the Baron Harkonnen? Yes, she's pre-born, but otherwise wouldn't she be just like the Sisterhood in terms of available memories?

[@thomasboyles9773]

Abomination has no self to combat the imposition and imprinting of OM upon the naked mind.

[@fbl902]

@@thomasboyles9773 Yes but, how did she have his memories in the first place?

[@thomasboyles9773]

@@fbl902 Women HAVE the male half available, but are repulsed by it to such an extent that they cannot unlock the potential and remain sane. Well, start from nothing and sanity doesn't matter. Preborn are inhuman, not because of OM specifically, but because they are molded by OM without a self to reflect on it. without a self to be repulsed by the Baron's influence Alia succumbs, rather than references it as a resource.

[@jaywellgate8304]

iirc both Alia and Leto had the same potential/could access both sides of the other memory.

[@Tusspot1]

@@fbl902 kinda spoiler-y stuff. even though she doesn’t have access to the male side of her memories, those memories can still effect her. The whole point of BG training is to be able to withstand being taken over by the other memories. Since Alia is the first pre born to ever live; because all others in the past were killed on the spot by the BG, she doesn’t have any defense.

[@Fireflash83]

Duncan Idaho was the kwisatz he was more pure than Paul .

[@Mr.BednaR]

It's Duncan. That is all. 🤷‍♂️🧐

[@jakeg3733]

In short, a bad idea. I understand why many of their contemporaries hate the BG... Creating an omniscient superhuman is a very, VERY bad idea

[@skidm0]

So basically the Kwisatz Haderach = Dr. Strange. Got it

[@Funboi68]

He sounds like a false god a demon

[@Re.Configured]

Was Paul seen as a betrayal to the Bene Gesserit because the Kwisatz Haderach is a firstborn thing? I don't see why Lady Jessica couldn't have had both a son and daughter to satisfy both the Bene Gesserit and Duke Atreides, which is what happened anyway. I'm new to this lore btw

[@zulhilmi5787]

Bene gesserit didn't allow for a son to be born within their bloodline. That's the issue. It's not about having a woman for political marriage only. Kwizath hederach is a man supposed to be born from a very selective progeny that they decided. The plan is to have kwizath hederach born from Lady Jessica's daughter and the harkonnen. Yes Paul should be female and supposed to be married to his cousin

[@Re.Configured]

@@zulhilmi5787 That makes sense, especially since the most powerful among them can only access their maternal ancestor's memories I think. Any male in this bloodline could pose an unknown variable and so only when the time is right would a boy be allowed.

[@claudemaggard7162]

​@@Re.Configuredhow do you know all this stuff.

[@Re.Configured]

@@claudemaggard7162 I just watched a bunch of lore videos since my post. Particularly those on the Bene Gesserit and the Kwisatz Haderach. Though my comment is more of as I understand it

[@elizabethjansen2684]

Idaho merged with Erasmus not omnius.

[@KayeHalliwell]

I cannot find an answer to this online. It has to be a male so he can access the entirety of his male lineage. Makes perfect sense. If the women cant see their patrilineal line beyond the darkness why the QH able to see the matrilineal line? Why is he able to have both?

[@benjaminghazi787]

He cannot see either as he is. He has so be able to survive the sandworm poison

[@diago951]

Because he is a man.

[@KayeHalliwell]

@@benjaminghazi787 not until he becomes the QH after the Water of Life. But then why can he see the matrilineal memories when he is a man of the BG cant see the Patrilineal because they are female?

[@radjen2001]

I haven't seen any mention of it but I personally would assume it has to do with XY and XX chromosomes, since the Y chromosome can only be passed down along to a song.