One D&D Cleric Changes! December 2022 Playtest Packet Review

[@varthalgamekiin4931]

Kelly, why is it that every outfit you wear is so damn cool? I want your wardrobe. All of it!

[@jiacobkavek123]

yeah! omg what's that jacket even called? I want one

[@B4K4157]

@@jiacobkavek123 Okay on the off chance he replies here I'm in the comment chain. Where's CritRoleCloset for other content creators?

[@sune7678]

he really got the drip today

[@piedpiper1185]

@@sune7678 This was my very first thought when the video started.

[@ansgarbroring3488]

Yes, I want this jacket, too!

[@bhead0081]

Kelly, your jacket is 🔥🔥🔥

[@zealousdoggo]

He got that dipping heat

[@oldmanandrew]

Looks like Monty borrowed that hoodie from K’s closet, too. Fashion is in full effect today.

[@Hrafnasil]

Yesss. I saw it and I NEED to know where he got it!

[@Hari-Harmonies]

Thought the exact same thing

[@craigseverance6235]

There was a vendor at PAX unplugged selling then, super expensive but really high quality.

[@WolfCry791]

The upcasting damage was changed with Spiritual Weapon. Now you get 1d8 for every level above level 2 instead of every 2 levels

[@solitudinous6508]

True, they are shooting for lateral moves, not just nerfs. Unfortunately, it’s just not intelligent to a use a 3rd level spell slot and concentration for upcasting Spiritual weapon when you could have Spirit Guardians instead. It just doesn’t have a niche anymore, so it won’t see much use.

[@nicka3697]

I think it's still a decent spell at low levels it gives you a bonus action magic attack which is always useful, at higher levels it now scales better. Not using concentration it felt like another creature on the battlefield and slowed things down. I'm willing to playtest it and see how it works.

[@not-a-theist8251]

That definitely makes sense but making it concentration won't make it worthwhile to upcast or cast at all when you have better concentration spells.

[@joshphillips5238]

@@solitudinous6508 the range for Spiritual weapon is still a lot better, and fairly often I like to be further back, blasting/healing but then getting that decent force damage smack. 2d8+5 force damage at 3rd level as a bonus action is still great, even when compared to the 3d8 radiant (on a save). I think it’s still a strong, and viable, option :)

[@kafka6666]

Jumping on the bandwagon of: "avoid the knee jerk reaction". Long range, 2nd level, single target, bonus action, nicely upcastable, die + ability mod damage spell. Spirit guardians forces you to be up front, doesn't include your ability mod for damage, and is 3rd level. So while it's probably overall a better spell it's not that much better.

[@atinygoose6199]

Notable benefit of prayer of healing over short rest is that it can be cast while moving. If you're in a long pursuit, if you know you're being followed/tracked/chased you can give everyone a short rest without having to stop moving, which I think is the best use for itm

[@justashooter5051]

Great point.

[@AvangionQ]

Prayer of Healing casting time should be reduced from 10 minutes to 1 minute ... other than that, it's good

[@bronsonstephens3493]

I believe that the ‘just in case’ spells are now going to make spell scrolls more important. And maybe make dms make spells scrolls more available and more useful.

[@AnaseSkyrider]

This is exactly how I feel when I play a half-caster. You're tired of having niche spells you'll use once a month IRL taking up space by more generally effective spells that may also have overlap. Spell scrolls are nice. No need to prepare Feather Fall for that ONE TIME you'll maybe have your party fall to the floor below in 4 months. Just have the one scroll ready, and make/buy more later.

[@Hazel-xl8in]

video games have been doing that for a while. every time i see something like a “resurrection stone” in a shop, i always buy one and keep it on me. i don’t know if or when i’ll need it, but when it does come up i know i can buy another one at the end of the mission.

[@JJV7243]

This is actually a great point. It'll also be a great way for party members to spend their gold!

[@backcountry164]

Scribing scrolls should be the #1 downtime activity for any spellcaster.

[@shawnmayo8210]

I agree but they'd have to want to make changes to items and mechanics related to them, which they completely avoided in 5e.

[@DessieDoyle]

One thing y'all didn't mention about Guidance is that it's now only got a 10ft range. And, honestly, I'm happy with that! I'd probably have gone 15ft, but I don't mind it not being 30ft now that it's not limited use/benefit per day, it helps prevent over usage in a much better way than they had it in the Expert Classes UA! Edited for clarification

[@nickm9102]

Prevents over usage? Tell that to the Paladin. You know that guy you keep on a 10-foot leash until lvl18 so you can say no to any Saving throws and almost never has a use for his reaction. there is a good chance that Guidance and Resistance will be the Paladin Cantrip Class feature with your first cantrip choice coming online at lvl 10.

[@JoshuaSmith-hl1xj]

I wish it didn't have the caviot of only working on a failure. The times I was really happy for guidance and bardic inspiration was when I made history or arcana checks on important story hooks or to find a clue. Remember the study action has no failure state.

[@carsonrush3352]

Pack tactics made an excellent point in their videos about this. Spells with the same effect don't stack if their durations overlap. So spells with the instantaneous duration can never stack, which means that this spell can be stacked using multiple wielders of this cantrip. RAW, three casters could assist someone with a single skill check using this cantrip. I think it might just be more interesting to give them a number of uses per day of this can trip equal to two times the casters proficiency bonus. That would solve all of these shenanigans immediately.

[@cellceair8772]

@@carsonrush3352 disagree everyone being within range of each other and using their reactions is a cost already

[@DessieDoyle]

@@JoshuaSmith-hl1xj - as a DM, I'd rule any result that doesn't give you all of the information that you could possibly gather as a failure, and that way you'd get the Guidance if needed, if it could help.

[@andreDECOverri]

I actually really like Kelly's idea for an elemental subclass. It could be several subclasses disguised as one, you choose an element at level 3 and gain related spell list and abilities, like the genie warlock. Thematically it would allow for a lot of fantasy tropes that we don't currently have, like a fire cleric as the leader of a religion that sacrifices people to their volcano deity, or someone spreading poison and disease in the name of a pestilence deity. Give them a bonus action channel divinity that ignores resistance to that element for a minute to make the poison cleric feasible. Tiamat could have 5 big priests, one representing each head. I just realized I keep coming up with villain ideas :P

[@evilallensmithee]

Me too! I imagine different deities provide different versions of the same abilities, a little like totem Barbarian or circle of the land. Like partially combining with Monty's idea of changing Blessed Strike damage type. Like Thor let's you change your damage to Thunder and Zeus let's you change it to lightning, but a generic nature deity let's you change when you prepare spells to acid, cold, fire, lightning, or poison.

[@shawnmayo8210]

Further decision points down the line to focus on an element or even an option to remain diverse is cool.

[@M_M_ODonnell]

Banishment was interesting because of how it motivated trying to break the caster's concentration (and, depending on context, having the party frantically try to figure out who had just cast Banishment on the party member who they'd really like to have back *right now* ). I'm going to miss that. Making it a concentration spell *and* having a save every turn seems quite weak for a level-4 spell.

[@nickm9102]

It is also out of theme "I failed to resist the caster teleporting me to another plane but now I can resist a relocation after it is done" pretty sure you can't will yourself home from the store AFTER the drive (I know not a perfect comparison, but the principle is the same)

[@RLKmedic0315]

Banishment was way too powerful and needed a nerf.

[@bluebird3281]

@@nickm9102 What if the target made a save every time the caster had to make a con check? Like the creature gets a chance whenever the spell is in jeopardy.

[@Hazel-xl8in]

i do think it’s no longer worth the 4th level spell slot, but i actually didn’t like the motivation to break concentration. as a DM, i’m constantly checking my own power and making sure i’m not focusing a player down (because while a monster dying doesn’t ruin my fun, a pc dying ruins their fun). if monsters all immediately ganged up on the spellcasters, they would probably do more damage than they normally would due to lower armor classes AND shut down their powerful spell. i would rather just abandon the design of save-or-suck. if creatures can get incapacitated for multiple rounds in a row, that necessitates the existence of features that completely shut those effects down (like legendary resistance), which means we’re stuck between the monsters doing nothing or the players feeling useless. neither of those are fun situations.

[@OnlineSarcasmFails]

@@nickm9102 consider the connection ongoing until the spell is complete or terminated rather than complete after the first cast. In the car analogy imagine that you are still inside the car that brought you there, displaced but not in the market yet just the parking lot.

[@onefluffyredpanda1909]

I’m a really big fan of the new Prayer of Healing. It means the cleric can help the party, especially the fighter, while the rogue is investigating a room or the wizard is casting a ritual spell. Also, thanks for this great overview on the new play test packet!

[@nickm9102]

yes, adding all the features of cat nap without the downside of being unconscious is very nice. let's hope they give healing spells to all the arcane casters since they took their short rest spell and added it to a cleric only spell of a lower lvl (now a Cleric/Paladin spell) I mean a 20 wisdom means that for a second lvl spell slot you get the effect of five 2nd lvl Cure Wounds AND a 5th lvl Cat nap all for a 2nd lvl slot while your Wizard tells you what that new ring can do. STUPID LVL OP!

[@JoshuaSmith-hl1xj]

Since it's once per day I think they are right that it needs to be 1 minute instead.

[@matthewdavis9966]

I think that level 9 feature should give you the option of taking another Order OR getting an additional feature that synergizes with the choice you made at level 2 to focus on weapon damage, being a pseudo expert, or spellcasting.

[@JJV7243]

I like keeping the options that are available at level 3 - but adding a couple others at 9 (having more to choose from) would be great too.

[@matthewdavis9966]

@@JJV7243 it would be interesting if it was like Pact Boons unlocking certain Eldritch Invocations

[@CaliforniaPaladin]

Couldn’t agree more. I like the option of being a super specialist in one aspect.

[@relaxedfantasyreview]

I want a closet tour video from Kelly. Like, I NEED this 😍

[@shawnmayo8210]

That'd be some great filler content. "Behind the scenes with Dungeon Dudes" They could do a whole Queer Eye type of fashion episode showcasing Kelly's wardrobe and his favourite Toronto shops. Monty could show his setup for recording and maybe a behind the screen episode including real play with a DM view.

[@relaxedfantasyreview]

@@shawnmayo8210 see, this guy gets it!

[@CW-hw8nu]

Spiritual Weapon did have a damage boost. It used to get an extra dmg die for every 2 spell levels. Now it goes up for every spell level. So its base is the same, but it scales better at higher levels.

[@nickm9102]

Great I gain 1d8-5d8 on a roll for a loss of 3d8-9d8 on a failed Save either way I lose damage but now I have to guess who will roll better Me or the DM instead of both...I almost forgot Spiritual weapon is even less effective as it now has a 10ft movement over the NON-Concentration 30 ft ( I'll take less damage for battlefield mobility and the ability to use another spell any day)

[@aaronwilliams8887]

there is (in my opinion) no way that a damage boost is worth the loss of having it cost concentration. Now it needs to compete with spells like bless, spirit guardians, etc. It i think will be good for some single target damage bonus, but now if you get hit you can lose it. even if you just look at the damage numbers alone, the risk of having it out for 1-2 turns and losing concentration is way worse then having a weaker spiritual weapon that is guaranteed to last the whole combat.

[@CW-hw8nu]

I wasn't saying the damage buff makes up for it. Its still a notable nerf imo. Just pointing out a buff that was added that it seems they missed. Also, I may have misunderstood you Nick, but both the original and new version can be moved 20ft. That aspect wasn't changed as far as I saw.

[@skyebrandon5]

@@nickm9102, it still has the same 20ft movement per round as a bonus action as before. Or do you mean in comparison to the 30 ft. diameter of Spirit Guardians?

[@craighenry1277]

something else to note here is as spiritual weapon is on divine list paladin will likely have baseline access instead of only getting it as an oath spell

[@euansmith3699]

Dr Martin is looking pretty flash in his cyberpunk hoodie; however, Kelly's fabulous jacket wins this round of Dungeon Dudes Duelling Duds. Thanks for this dive in to One D&D.

[@DMHightower]

This video is why I subscribe and keep coming back!! Way to go DDudes!!!

[@WolfCry791]

I've used Catnap exactly one time, on my Artificer! I was infiltrating a cult, and they made me the teacher of a group of children chosen to open a dimensional portal to a death plane (create a Mabar zone). I used Catnap to help the children rest up during our lessons. I was using every manipulative tactic my Yuan-ti character knew to convince the children that I was the only one that cared for them, to listen to me over the cult. I convinced them to trust me, and me alone. Then, I changed the dimensional coordinates so that they opened a portal to a plane of life instead (we made an Irian Zone in Passage). I managed to foil the cult's plot in a really creative way and take care of the kids better at the same time. I ended up adopting them and retiring the character. It was a lot of fun, and I used Catnap to help pull it off by convincing the kids that it was my presence that helped them sleep better and feel better. Super niche spell, but it can have a place

[@ikaemos]

That's a very inventive and wholesome way to use Catnap, but the spell is not as situational as it appears. Consider for a moment that it's available to warlocks - the one caster class which always joins the monk in the "can we take a short rest?"-chorus. I think it was intended as a way to alleviate the playstyle gap between short- and long-rest classes.

[@miostiek]

@@ikaemos except it isn't available to warlocks.

[@LupineShadowOmega]

@@miostiek More than likely because they were scared it would be too powerful. Which is always a weird fear to me.

[@lunchboxadams4048]

I could honestly listen to you guys talk about one D&D for hours

[@radomirkesl3399]

Can't help it, Kelly is just the essence of style!

[@souprocks44]

I think one change that would make the life cleric feel a lot better would be making the 3rd level feature be spell level + proficiency extra healing, instead of spell level +2. It would allow for a bit better scaling at later levels, and would make a low level casting of cure wounds still feel like a viable option

[@Zr0din]

We are showing some Fashion today! Nice TSR hoodie! and an over the top jacket!

[@DMHightower]

Great analysis. I don't have the time to dig in this much, so I really appreciate your work and I respect your opinions as experts!

[@williamtaylor6886]

The world building issues brought on by only four subclasses is big. I also wonder about the character story impact of not picking your Domain until 3rd level.

[@GödekeMichels_72]

On the spell preparation issue I already decided for myself to just run my table on the old rule on that one.

[@dcoffinh]

I think I'll do the same.

[@noahbigmac]

I really like the changes to spells prepared! Spells prepared is so strong as opposed to spells known, and the benefits aren't equal to the drawbacks.

[@jakobbraun5180]

Fix for Banishment: only creatures native to the plane get a save every round, others only the first save. Or…. …make it funnier: Everyone has to save every round and if he fails, he is gone for this round, if he succeeds, he stays - so a successful save does not end the spell, it just supresses it for this round - makes creatures pop around in time at random 😂

[@chrisblake4198]

I agree with you guys about spell preparation. The change also kills the possibility of skipping certain levels of spell in favor of picking more from another level using the skipped levels for spells that have solid upcast benefits. So, here I was about to suggest that a good change for Life Domain would be to give them Improved Aid (better scaling so they get more hp sooner, or more targets) then you started talking about the massive nerf to Aid. I agree with you guys, increased HP max for an adventuring day was a really nice tool with synergy with a lot of other abilities. A new source of temp hp is just meh, and I'd no longer consider Aid if the change goes through.

[@dcoffinh]

Love all your points about the holy order. I think it's a great idea of a feature that once again helps give choices and unique traits to different clerics. And extra attack on a cleric would be delightful

[@midnightmonody5832]

I feel like a pretty easy and intuitive change to the whole spells prepared thing that has a lot of flexibility to it could be that instead of having each of your spells prepared tied one for one to your spell slots, that "you can prepare a number of spells equal to your total amount of spell slots" that way you have the exact same number of spells but now are much more flexible and free with your choices and what you prepare for the day.

[@justashooter5051]

That would help with flexibility but you still end up behind the curve with number of spells prepared - at 1st level, you are at least 4 spells behind since you only get 2 with the new method but probably had 4 + your 2 subclass spells under the 2014 PHB method (assuming a 16 Wis.)

[@midnightmonody5832]

@@justashooter5051 True though if they are set in continuing this design philosophy with the other spellcasters (without knowing how they are going to handle the mage group) then I believe it's a good way to go in alleviating the main issue at hand.

[@reiinaki4118]

I was thinking of this idea too but I’d limit it to the three classes that will have full access to one of the spell lists, the Wizard, the Druid, and the Cleric. Yes that’s still very little spells at level 1-2 but those levels kind of feel like prologue levels now with them moving all or most of the subclasses to third level so it kinda of works out.

[@michaeljpastor]

For the four subclass choices, would it work if they presented the four dichotomies that you guys brought up in a roundabout way? Life & Death, War & Peace, Light & Shadow and...? Clerics would pick one dichotomy, and choose one side of the coin as their focus, with the ability to cast from the other side of the coin so-many-times-per-short- or long-rest

[@TheHornedKing]

Not too keen on most of the spells, but I really like the changes to the class. For subclasses, I could see them make a combo of Death and Grave where you make choices along the way to decide what direction you lean towards.

[@CaliforniaPaladin]

I think a possible middle ground for banishment could be making the saving throws opposed. I like the dramatic effect of an epic struggle to keep a powerful enemy contained.

[@TheRedneckGamer1979]

Bruh.... That TSR hoodie is fantabulous!! Edit: Aid is incredibly powerful to have in your pocket as a divine caster, it can turn a TPK into a salvagable situation, aid doesn't just increase maximum hitpoints it increases CURRENT hitpoints by that amount, and it effects three people, you can use it to get three downed players back on their feet, sure it's on their feet with 5 hitpoints but having three downed characters suddenly able to take actions again is huge.

[@anonymouszebra1239]

been playing a twighlight cleric for many sessions, found that spiritual weapon + spirit guardians was strong...when it was set up. What you need for it to be viable: - long combat (for value per the 2 spell slots) - no dispells/concentration breaks - need to be able to use the spell slots (either because you are high level, or don't need to save them.) I found often combat is too short, or chaotic, or I need to save my spell slots, such that the combo has only really worked once, and even then only briefly. it is very efficient when it's up.

[@explodingdice85]

Yo Kelly, where’d you get that sick jacket?

[@real_echo3477]

Kelly's coat is absolutely amazing. Anyone know where he got it from?

[@UltimosGabriel]

11:15 I didn't think enough people realized the whole potential of the concept of Holy Order. The first thing that came into my mind when I first read it was the “Pact Boon” from the Warlocks. And that's a “Small Subclass Like Feature” that I always loved. Imagine if the the Wizards get a “Wizard School” or “School Specialization” feature at second level and then all the Spell Savants and features linked to their old subclasses could be packed inside this small subclass like options while you can access really interesting new subclasses. You could be a Divination School War Wizard of sorts. That would be awesome. 22:00 Life Clerics could actually have more interactions with the Divine Spark healing. 38:00 Would it be reduced? I mean, if every PhB subclasses came back, that alone would be 40 Subclasses. The classes that had only 1 Subclass can get a 3th and would still remain 3 subclasses to be given to random classes.

[@xSilentStrangerx]

Re: 2nd question They have stated the revised PHB will have 48 subclasses, and all classes will have 4 subclasses. So that means cleric and Wizard are losing some of those classes, probably being replaced with other features in class, or a new subclass that is somewhat generic to fit in the different aspects like the D. Dudes discussed here. So the process of elimination and what WOTC has stated themselves leads to the correct conclusion that certain subclasses will be removed or pared down to go with other things.

[@UltimosGabriel]

@@xSilentStrangerx Oh, can you lend me some sauce? Thanks for pointing out, I might've missed this.

[@Answerisequal42]

Jo the idea of thatmtruestrike suggestion is lit. I would totally homebrew that.

[@b-you-tube]

Something to keep in mind with the 4 subclasses per class thing: Book of Many Things has already been announced to come out in late 2023 WotC release a book with a bunch of new subclasses every 3 years - Xanathar’s came out in late 2017, Tasha’s came out in late 2020 My bet is that Book of Many Things will have subclasses designed to be compatible with One D&D

[@sethompson2052]

Cutting back at this point is a set up to make money off future books/content. It would be bad business to give everything up front in one book. My bet is you are thinking in the right direction.

[@mikecarson7769]

awesome review! extra bonus = Kelly keeps on bringing his A-game of fashion style

[@Sheamu5]

Nerfs feel bad initially, but it's necessary to help the divide between martials and casters.

[@m.b.8701]

Agreed 👍🏻

[@CooperAATE]

It's literally for the betterment of the game

[@PrincessEleiah]

Here's a crazy idea, why not just buff martials? I believe nerfs like this are the act of bad balancing. Lets make everyone feel bad instead of making everyone feel good

[@m.b.8701]

@@PrincessEleiah are you confident that it's that simple?

[@PrincessEleiah]

@@m.b.8701 I didn't say it was simple, but DnD is about having fun. I only play casters since I find martials boring with their limited options. I think we should be giving martials more options and buffs so that they're more powerful and fun, not trying to take away the fun of casters. The easiest path isn't always the best. If they can't fix martials and instead target casters, myself and others will just stick to 5e

[@lewisgale62]

Speaking of playtests, are we going to get an apothecary playtest feedback update?

[@WolfCry791]

Kelly, Sebastian deserves an outfit like yours. And so far, I'm not crazy about the Cleric subclass structural changes. I really don't like not getting 1st level Domain spells

[@ytchanviewer5389]

So few comments about this ... Kelly's outfit in this video is absolutely fabulous !

[@AnaseSkyrider]

I don't understand why 1st level preparation was skipped. Casters need nerfs, sure, but I don't like that ON TOP of the preparation changes. But more than that... we already have instances just in this UA where characters are getting spell preparations AFTER they initially gain that level of spellcasting. Bard gets 1st level spell preparations at level 2, a level after they acquired this. Half-casters have been getting 1st level spells from their 3rd level subclasses for a while, and nobody had a problem with it.

[@Hazel-xl8in]

you’re guaranteed 4 first level spells prepared at all times anyways. maybe they thought it was a little silly for every character to have 6? it does to me, but i recognize i’m in the minority on the spell preparation changes

[@dungeondr]

I think the moving of features by 4 whole levels is the biggest blow. The domain specific channel divinity and the 6th level feature both moved 4 levels, they aren't even in the same tier of play as they used to be! All so they could make blessed strikes a class feature instead of a subclass feature? So dumb.

[@liquidaria4454]

I saw the Aid spell revision and had to do a double take. A go-to spell for me relegated to never being prepared. Also like everyone is saying that is a FANTASTIC jacket Kelly!

[@Lola-qc3ou]

Great jacket Kelly :)

[@redcapetimetraveler7688]

the kelly's red vest is verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry coool , i want it or the same 🤗

[@coddudnr1]

The Banishment spell is more like a time out for the monster now rather then a pause for the adventures.

[@AvangionQ]

Banishment should remove its concentration component, just give the creature a new saving throw each turn ... at disadvantage.

[@HAL-2023]

Love your info videos. Thanks Dudes!!!

[@Hedron-Design]

When I played through TOA from level 1-10 as a cleric I found that half way through it was very limiting to have mostly a max of only three spells of a given level. Then it dawned on me I could actually prepare more higher level spells but only cast 2 or three times but it really helped. I had previously been preparing spells the way One D&D is now structured. It is terribly I always felt I needed to be able to prepare more spells even if I could not cast them all. If this is going to be the standard then I hope clerics et more spell slots as they level up. It really sucked to prepare only one or two of my higher level spells only to realize that all of them never got used. I usually ended up using those higher slots for lower level spells because I just didn't need the 4th or 5th level spells that I had chosen. That is until I sacrificed a few barely used lower level spells to prepare more higher level ones. At tenth level still only having 3 slots max in most of my spell levels sucked. in fact I think it was level 4 that had the smallest selection and many of them were easily passed up in favor of another level 5 spell or even the useful level 3 spells. Side note. If the argument is that spell casters need a nerf to help the martial classes then only nerf spell casters damage output. It isn't like the martials are going to step on caster toes with nearly as much utility as caster can step on martials with damage or target removal. Don't nerf the cleric versatility but nerf some of the combat power of damage. Already having spiritual weapon be concentration nerfs a lot of cleric spell combos. That AID CHAN??GE!? prolly not going to take it much anymore. My parties usually have 1 or two other temp HP abilities to share with the party. OMG and Banishment too. Prolly off my list. Need those precious slots. Honestly I tend to shy away from spells that give enemies saves every turn anyway. Just can't be reliable and instead of using concentration on that I could be doing it on somethin that won't just end suddenly. Only 4 sub classes? Honestly I hated and rarely ever called a cleric domain a "sub class". To me a deity domain is not a class lol. I mean it didn't do much beyond spells and proficiencies that significantly changed the cleric class. Well IMO anyway. Picking a deity to follow just never seems like a sub class to me.

[@jaredlocke4300]

That conclusion discussion was fantastic

[@flandarz1]

I'd wager the PhB Cleric subclasses will be four really iconic ones, like Life, Light, War, and Nature. And I think that trimming them down for the PhB is probably a good thing too. I know a lot of new players would get choice paralysis when seeing 20+ Subclasses, especially when you had to pick it at level one. And I think that's kind of why all the classes are going to just 4 in the PhB: to improve accessibility for new players.

[@galmenz6118]

life and war are a given i would say, the other slots maybe death and nature instead of light?

[@chrestomanci266]

@@galmenz6118 I could see them dropping light and cutting off access to the evocation school. Nature would give them access to primal but the druid is obviously still in the priest family

[@ledhyper4282]

I think life, war, nature and light too, but I wouldn't discard trickery just jet, especially with so many CR fans

[@JoshuaSmith-hl1xj]

With the scholar order I would say knowledge is more likely than light and nature. It would synergies with these four. Life, Death, Knowledge, War.

[@galmenz6118]

@@JoshuaSmith-hl1xj i can certainly see that

[@romanabanin2216]

Divine spark reminds me of 3.5 cleric's channelling feture which allowed to drop any spell you prepared and heal/damage 1d8 for every spell slot level. Interesting revisiting of old features

[@nadirku]

One potential problem with the Holy Order Scholar option is that it gives the Wisdom Bonus to the Skills you used the option to gain Proficiency in, so in the current RAW if you want to get Proficiency in say Persuasion as part of the 9th level Holy Order, you would need to forgo getting Proficiency in Persuasion until 9th level... I think I would like the option to let you "choose 2 Skills you are proficient in" from that list of 5 Skills to get the Wisdom bonus, perhaps with an option to be able to switch which Skill Proficiency gets the Wisdom bonus as part of a downtime activity, as part of a level up, or possibly as part of a long rest.

[@b-you-tube]

Agreed, but I think it should be limited to knowledge based skills, rather than Stealth or Athletics

[@nadirku]

@@b-you-tube right, perhaps I messed up the quotation marks I used, but that is why I included "from that list of 5 skills" as a limitation, the wording of an actual rule based on this concept would need to be more clearly written than what I did.

[@ArdisFoxxArt]

Kelly lookin like a rad wizard and it is everything

[@lormill4851]

I'm fine with a lower power level as long as everything is as balanced as can be. It is a new game, after all. I'll hold my comparisons for now.

[@JJV7243]

As am I. I think the power level of onednd shoudl be about where 5e was with the PHB, but weaken the mid-late game casters a bit. The most dominant subclass/race for (most) classes now comes from other sources and are subsequently a tad stronger than the OG 5e.

[@collinkelch7764]

I agree with your arguments and will respond in the survey as such. My RP and story question is are we still picking gods at L1? We are so full of faith that we have Clerics power at L1/L2 but we don’t have a chosen god or a domain? How do we hand wave this away? I need more info from WotC on this RP aspect.

[@theblindbuildergrandminuti5648]

I agree that the divine spark ability should be affected by the sub class. Life domain should add PB and or Wis mod to it. And more damaging subclasses like death or storm should enhance the damage, like the dice type increase if you use your gods signature element like D10 if thunder or lighting, D12 for necrotic spark. War cleric could use spark with their melee attack to increase its number of damage dice, combine this with use of proper subclass channel divinity feature might run through your PB uses, but be very impactful. Just my thoughts on it I guess.

[@theblindbuildergrandminuti5648]

Or even have life domain be able to use the healing divine spark in combination with a healing spell. That would also stack with its now 14th level subclass cap, this would combine the base features with subclass features.

[@hippiewerewolf42]

You have blown my mind with your true strike suggestion! Immediate house rule!

[@fredericgenest]

The change to Spiritual Weapon is needed and good. This was a "must have spell" for clerics. And similarly to "must have feats", changing what it does to make it slightly interesting actually invites you to select spells based on your character theme and inclinations, which makes the game overall better.

[@linrichardson8250]

Yeah, I always felt dumb not picking it which is not the way such things should work. The abundance of heavy armour subclasses and the spirit spells made any cleric but a frontliner suboptimal. I am glad 6th ed is changing that.

[@tomfernandez3564]

Loving the puns there Kelly 😂 Thanks for putting this together, love your guys work.

[@senrith_]

On the subject of referring to all of these changes as "nerfs". In the video Jeremy Crawford mentions that the Spell changes are more to work with how they originally intended. Are they less powerful in some cases? Yes, but it's important to understand the design and reasons behind the changes. It's not necessarily to nerf them but in their mind clarify them and fix their previous wording.

[@connerduncan3574]

It's damage did go up because its concentration based.

[@savangray]

I really like the preparing of spells equal to the spell slots. It breaks down the number of spells you can pick down into more managable chunks. Beofre whenever you gain an extra spell with a cleric you have to look through the whole list which can be time consuming, now when you gain a spell slot you just have to pick from that level list, much more streamlined. Also small changes that just slightly reign in how strong casters isn't a bad thing in my book.

[@PedroFerreira-ne3jv]

Me too! Im kinda worried about the reception the community has given to some changes around spells cause like, we need to nerf casters. Not because of disparity between them and martial exclusively but because they break the game in a way even wotc doesn’t want to touch(part of the reason there is almost no adventure past lvl 12-14, hell dungeon of the mad mage flat out ban some spells). The game has bounded accuracy so we can’t really just buff the martials to hell and back to get them all on par outside or inside combat, we have to put limitations on spells (specifically the power houses of 7+ lvls and some low lvl ones) and/or how preparation of them works

[@GaramondGourmond]

Great cloths guys! They're awesome ensembles!

[@flandarz1]

I think Banishment could still be a good option, even over the Hold spells. Why? Because it targets Charisma, one of the weakest Saves in the game, instead of Wisdom, which is generally a stronger Save across most monsters.

[@Tusitala1967]

Kelly leveled up. He's finally completed his apprenticeship with Doctor Strange.

[@Dramatic_Gaming]

I'm going to take the minority opinion and say the changes to spell prep are good & needed. Casters already have a massive advantage just by virtue of being able to have an answer for any situation. As it is right now, casters can cover every single situation they could possibly think of and still get all their favorite spells. There should be some level of thought required for spell prep. I also think that both Banishment and Spiritual weapon deserved to have some sort of nerf bat swung at them. Banishment being effectively a save-or-die spell as it is rn I think is unhealthy & limits encounter design. Giving them a save every round is probably a but too much, but there needed to be something besides 'make this one save or you auto-lose' (and no, concentration does not count as a drawback on it). As for Spiritual Weapon, I'm gonna be honest and say that it *should* have been concentration from the start. A single character being able to have three spells going per round breaks balance

[@SoulessGinger-fz7lh]

The other thing with Aid is since its now temp hp. you can't extend spell it so it lasts over a long rest and you get you slots back. If I had to guess this is probably why it was changed to be temp hp in the first place.

[@flandarz1]

I think the "new" Preparations = Spell Slots thing is overall a good thing. Sure, it cuts down on that Caster versatility, but it definitely shrinks the Caster/Martial divide a bit, it's easier for new players to pick up on, it makes picking spells that upcast well more meaningful, and it just makes more sense (to me) for, say, a 5th level Caster who just learned how to cast 3rd level spells to not be able to memorize more of them than they do of their lower level slots. But I'll definitely admit that, yeah, it sucks to lose that versatility and customization you had before, but that doesn't necessarily mean the change is *bad*.

[@arbitrary_thoughts]

I think it will be good in the long run and it will make abilities/items that allow you to get additional spells much more meaningful.

[@michelbrand1470]

Looking SO dapper there, Kelly

[@theblindbuildergrandminuti5648]

Give grave domain extra damage for their turn undead. If we are changing some of these things, make the subclasses more integrated bonuses with their core features

[@sebastianvega6613]

I need “guidance” to find a cool jacket like that Kelly

[@SgtNukem007]

Complaints about the Spiritual Weapon nerf feel like power gaming woes. Don't get me wrong I love ya'lls content, but I like not feeling like I'm being horribly suboptimal when I choose not to take a single second level spell. Also cleric was one of the most powerful classes in 5e so if they don't being the other classes up (which they should do instead of nerfing) then something like Spiritual Weapon feels like a good hit

[@Reluxthelegend]

30:30 the problem with catnip is that ou were incapacitated for those 10 minutes

[@evansc55]

I think banishment change was needed because it can be used against players also and then that player is just gone potentially

[@Hedron-Design]

I always though it was odd that someone could be banished to the same plane they are currently on lol. Granted if a PC is on another plane and then they get banished that's rough but still I do not think that a PC from the prime material plane should be banished to another part of the prime material plane lol. It just should not work IMO.

[@evansc55]

@Don they would not be they would go to a demi plane for potentially upto 10 rounds and depending on the game could be the entire session

[@Hedron-Design]

@@evansc55 honestly, again in my own opinion only, this does not change my view of the spell. It should banish a target to it's home plane and do nothing if they are on their home plane. I do not home brew this spell in my games (I use RAW) but I still think it is odd.

[@AgentForest]

My main concern with Spiritual Weapon is that it would only ever get use now if it was better at single-target damage than Spirit Guardians.

[@LordShadowZ]

I am more okay with these changes to the Cleric over what they did to the Rogue and Bard, so hopefully they'll do another major pass on the abilities of those 2 classes.

[@arbitrary_thoughts]

I think if they make Bard's 2nd level ability Songs of Restoration into a feature that has different spell schools would be really cool and probably enough for me. Still more tweaking overall of course.

[@TheRealMuckluck]

Freakin' loving Kelly's jacket outfit today. I think it's his most badass getup yet!

[@thalesribeiro3558]

Can't help but feel that the subclasses are not going to be domains, but they are going to be some sort of template in which you can fit a certain domain. So you would get like a "warrior" template in which you can fit the tempest and the war domains for exemple. The fact that the life domain spell list is labeled " Prepared Spells", makes me think that the spell lists of these subclasses won't branch out to other spells lists.

[@LastMimsiE]

The flavor text for the subclass also no longer makes reference to any specific deity by name. It also says that "a Cleric of any religious tradition might choose it" so it really seems like they are trying to decouple Domain from Deity.

[@benjaminosoria5350]

I came for the DnD, but I stayed for the fits! I need to know where yall get your clothes cause that's some fine stuntery you boys have equipped

[@filmwiebe1703]

Honestly? I kinda like the Spiritual Weapon change. It is such a powerful spell in its current iteration, that it makes all other level 2 spells garbage by comparison. Making it require concentration really helps bring it in line, and I appreciate that (even if it makes Clerics weaker)

[@bitspersecond2006]

I think they could leave the no Concentration but shorten the duration to 3 rounds. More bookkeeping, but still get 4 extra attacks spread over 4 rounds.

[@ShadowGeek12]

Its not a good spell . if you compare it to other casters, 1d8+wis per turn to 1 creature and nothing else if it hits ? How cute , while the wizard just freezes in place like 10 creatures with a single casting or rhymes binding ice or web, or heck explode 5-6 creatures with a single cast or 3d8 damage shatter, burning hands can smoke a couple creatures at lvl 1, how long would it take a spirit weapon to do the same ? And lets compare it to single target spells theres tadshas mindwhip 3d6 damage thats like 2-3 turns worth of spirit weapon(if it actualy hits or reaches its target with its slowass movement) and the debuff it leaves is devastating or hell... the cleric himself has a 1st level spell that does like 4d6 damage while leaving an helfull effect called guiding bolt. It lacking concentration was literaly the only thing that made it any fun to use

[@grahamvink5163]

Life For healing, War for melee, Light for blasting, and Nature for spiritualism. That's my guess for the four domains in the new PHB

[@Phoenix_DRG]

If they stick with the their strict spell prep idea I will likely forgo casters. My current main is a wizard. The versatility of a wizard is beneficial to the whole party. You gimp that, and you turn the wizard into the early 5e ranger or monk…..practically useless

[@corymorse4271]

A huge aspect to banishment is that the pocket dimension prevents banishing a demon taking ongoing damage (say, from Immolation) from being banished to its home plane where it would die from the ongoing damage.

[@nickm9102]

If a spell persists after a planeshift it will persist in a demiplane they changed Banishment because it 'isn't fun for a player to be out of the game.' this way, they feel like they have some control over it and it gives several more chances to resist the spell essentially taking the teamwork aspect of combat out of the spell perfect for those Main Character Syndrome players.

[@nojusticenetwork9309]

I really don't agree with the idea of giving the base Cleric class Extra Attack at any level. If One D&D moves ahead with the idea of clerics potentially getting proficiency in all weapons and armor, then that's even less incentive to play pure martial classes like the Fighter. Casters don't need more options that step on the toes of the warrior fantasy

[@yurglepop]

Well, we also haven't seen what changes they plan on making to martials.

[@nojusticenetwork9309]

@@yurglepop even if the changes to Fighter, Barbarian and Monk are great I still wouldn't agree with giving casters more elements unique to martials. And I don't think giving martials spells would make things okay either. Casters are already solid and have been since 5E released. Martials need the attention help fully realize the fantasy they are meant to invoke mechanically.

[@JJV7243]

now that clerics get paladin smite spells - I think making them attack ONCE per turn (using a smite) but getting a huge boost to hit might be a kinda "unique" melee cleric that could work out.

[@Zero_Fortune]

Ayo cool video and all but... where can I get those fits? I need them both now

[@divi1139]

I know that the new prepared spellcasting rules that restrict the number of high level spells you can prepare is a debuff...but I actually think it might be good for game balancing since it slightly nerfs spell casters in general which might actually be a good thing.

[@chrestomanci266]

Unless it makes them less fun. Most casters enjoy the deciding which spells are best and prepping their lists. This level of restriction just seems to restrictive and not fun. Most people will end up choosing the optimal spells for that level and not change them. If they want to reign in casters at higher levels they should max the number of spell slots so when you get a new high one you lose a low one. You can still upcast but it would keep the casting of a spell as a real resource rather than spammable.

[@ngreene9199]

My thoughts on this: -Is the change to spell preparation actually more bookkeeping, though? It seems like it could be more intuitive. You have X many spell slots of a given level, and you can also prepare X many spells of that level. I definitely find it a bit complex keeping track of where all my prepared slots went when they might be in any level of spell. -I wonder if there's a reason they didn't just give the Scholar option Expertise in a skill? That would have been more consistent. -100% on board with True Strike being a reaction. The reaction cantrip buffs sound like a lot of fun. -I'm really curious what the four Wizard subclasses are going to be now, too. I'd guess Necromancy, Evocation/War Mage, an Illusion/Enchantment combo, and maybe something Transmutation and/or Conjuration focused? Divination is an obvious possibility too, of course.

[@JWaltz91]

My big issue with OneD&D is that the majority of initial changes are following a pattern of bringing everything down to balance with the weakest options instead of bringing the weakest options up in line with the stronger ones. Don't nerf rogue Sneak Attack (which honestly CURRENTLY (2014 PHB) barely puts them above Monks if you math it out for solely combat), Aid, Banishment, etc. Bring Monks, Resistance (spell), and the other weak options up to par with stronger classes, spells, and features. I've always held the view that balancing toward your weakest options is terrible game design because people come to love the strongest ones and only gonna hold resentment toward the designer(s) for not making the weak options stronger in the first place so that their beloved features/classes/etc don't get touched. This is particularly infuriating when they make changes like these after saying "We had a lot of satisfaction with how it currently works so we're trying not to change that stuff." If Rogue scored highest in satisfaction, why'd you nerf Sneak Attack? If Guidance had 80+% satisfaction, why'd you touch it? If people love Aid, why would make it crap? Not only was it a great buff that lent toward preparation with increased max hp but it was also an absolutely amazing "Oh Shit" button when the party gets in over their heads and 3 people went down. All that being said, the follow-through we've received so far when it comes to adjusting these features back in line with what players want in a second pass has been nice. As frustrating and upsetting as many changes have been, the expediency in denouncing or meeting us halfway at the very least gives me hope that 2024's PHB might actually turn out better than 2014's. Especially if they fix Assassin the way they fixed core Ranger.

[@scg7442]

100% Nerfing powerful classes, subclasses, Spells etc. Is not the way imo. Buffing other things is the way.

[@beastwithin7772]

@Dethcrow TOTALLY AGREE. I think nerfing the classes and spells we like is just not the play.

[@JWaltz91]

@@scg7442 It's what used to make certain MOBAs great compared to others. Instead of approaching busted characters from the perspective of "how do we make this fair," they used to go "how do we make everything else measure up to this so everyone feels good playing?" I LIKE monks and rogues and warlocks, thematically. Those are objectively, despite satisfaction ratings, the worst classes mathematically speaking. Rogues actually barely outperform Monks in damage (and are actually worse in the damage floor because only one attack), and Warlocks just don't measure up to any other full caster at all with only a maximum of 16 spells per day (IF you're getting two short rests AND playing to a high enough level to actually get your 4th spell slot and 9th level MA). So what'd they do? Made sneak attack only on your turn which removes half of your round-over-round damage potential. Made Spiritual Weapon, which scales rather horribly in damage, now take concentration. Thought to make Guidance a once-per-long rest. Honestly, the willingness to roll back has been great but the blatant 180 on these things also makes me cautious that they could be very aware of how we'll react and are doing it to "wear us down" before throwing out something truly absurd.

[@JWaltz91]

@@beastwithin7772 Right? This is a fantasy game. We're playing it out to experience a fantasy. When people want a specific type of challenge, they find a group that shares that interest and play under modified rules to that benefit. I'd much rather see them tend to the things they've left untended since 2014 and bring those in line with the cool stuff we've gotten from stuff that was already cool than see my favorites get dragged to the Monk's level (which, don't get me wrong, Monks are awesome, but they do not measure up to any other class).

[@katz86]

I'll admit I'm a baby gamer compared to many(this is my first D&D edition change) but I feel like I'm sticking to 5th. I love it and don't want to change.

[@flandarz1]

I think Spiritual Weapon going to Concentration is indicative of a change WotC might be making to *all*, or at least *most*, spells that last longer than an instant. I'd wager the number of spells which don't require Concentration is going to dwindle drastically. That said, I don't necessarily think this is too rough of a nerf. It seems like the spell just went from "every Cleric takes and uses this" to "a spell to take if it fits your concept", which (to me) is probably where *every* spell should be

[@JJV7243]

I generally agree. I'd increase the damage of spiritual weapon to 2d6 as a base instead of 1d8, however.

[@flandarz1]

@@JJV7243 I'd be fine with that. Greatsword damage for a 2nd level slot over 1 minute isn't gamebreaking.

[@scottyoung5423]

I hope your input continues to help the wizards of the coast to make positive changes and stop the negative changes to the game.

[@darcichambers6184]

Cleric is my go to class, and lately I've been playing grave Clerics. This means I am not throwing healing spells because I am most effective If someone drops to zero hit points. Pray of healing is my go to healing spell because I can top all my party up after a fight with one spell slot since it can be used on 6 creatures starting at 2D8 then scales each level. There is no limit to how many times I can cast it on my party a day currently. This is a big nerf.

[@nickm9102]

Not seeing a Nerf here and you are lying to yourself if you say you do. Triggering the effects of a short rest is much better than you could do with the old prayer of healing. add to that you regain ALL expended hit dice on a long rest now. the only way this could be worse than the %e wording id if you built a Pathfinder Cleric and dumped Wisdom for Charisma. I mean a 20 wisdom means that for a second lvl spell slot you get the effect of five 2nd lvl Cure Wounds AND a 5th lvl Cat nap all for a 2nd lvl slot while your Wizard tells you what that new ring can do. STUPID LVL OP!

[@darcichambers6184]

@@nickm9102 right now my cleric is level 6. I don't have access to level 5 spells, so mass cure wounds isn't an option. If my party is badly hurt it would take me using 6 spell slots on cure wounds to get the same effect as the current prayer of healing. Yes the short rest is an interesting addition, but for low level play it breaks our best healing spell. It's the once a day thing that will make me almost never use this again if it stays as is. Currently my cleric can cast pray of healing 6 times in 24 in games hours. The new rules make it basically 1 time in 24 game hours. I don't feel gaining a short rest makes up for the lost of 5 castings.

[@nickm9102]

@@darcichambers6184 you don't need to cast it multiple times. They use hit dice to make up for multiple castings. Prayer of healing as they altered it shouldn't be considered a healing spell it should be considered a short rest quick trigger. If you have to multicast prayer of healing your spell economy isn't the problem. You are punching too high or you have a party of sub optimal PCs. In addition 5e is not meant for a cleric to be the only source of healing. Class features, potions, even feats give other methods of healing. If you need more healing here you go have everyone by a 5gp healers kit and instead of an ASI take the healer feat. Now as an action you can heal them for 1d6+4+lvl between each short or long rest not as good on the high side but better on average and if you really got messed up do your prayer of healing get you short rest and go through your hit dice or don't and then use the healer feat ability for another 1d6+4+lvl. I do understand your issue as I had a similar one when they gutted healing spirit on my Ranger. Thankfully there are other options available that potentially have better ROI.

[@darcichambers6184]

@Nick M I am just pointing out that this is a debuf from what it currently is. I get they don't want people using it like I do, but my D&D parties are made up of 4 characters, the Cleric is the healer no one has an issue. One of the others has healing word/cure wounds ready just in case the cleric goes down. We use potions and at least one character has healer as a feat. The issue is I am a Grave Cleric and while you might take issue with my play style, I will and do let my group drop to below zero before casting any healing. This means after almost every fight someone is down almost half. In a 24 hour in game day my cleric uses prayer of healing 2 - 3 times depending on how bad our day was. And no we don't do another of pure dungeon crawls.

[@h2eh1s-]

Kel rocking his bard garb. Smooooth.

[@TheRealCaptainLavender]

One DnD. The nail in the coffin for table top gaming. Where there are no monsters and we all talk about our feelings around the tavern table /s

[@donalddouds6033]

Or a gift to Paizo as everyone flees to Pathfinder 2.0 just like they did with the 4th edition debacle prior to 5th

[@JaeymesDM]

Official request on where Kelly got that jacket. Please & thank you.

[@andrewconsidine6681]

Where can I get the jacket and the Hoodie? They look good!

[@SilvrSavior]

Maybe the 9th level Holy Order choices can also include upgrades for the first round of choices like having extra attack be a feature of choosing the martial option possibly.

[@riaden13]

Love the jacket Kelly, time to bring the Eroll Flynn moustache back.

[@chadbentley4008]

Kelly got that drip though. "jacket of awesomeness grants +2 to all charisma ability checks"

[@vincentschutte238]

Please speculate together more. Great content as usual but the last 5 minutes or so were great.

[@Aligariusful]

I'm curious to get your take on what 3 additional Cleric subclasses (alongside Life) you think we will see in the "One D&D PHB." Personally, I could see Light, Tempest, and Grave.

[@WhiskeyPatriot]

Hope they fix War Domain

[@TheHornedKing]

I'm thinking War, Light, and a combo of Death and Grave where you make choices along the way to decide what direction you lean towards.

[@m.b.8701]

War, Light, Tempest