Wizard Subclass Tier Ranking (Part 3) in Dungeons and Dragons 5e

[@illoney5663]

With the Chronurgy Wizard's 14th level ability, I love the idea of the final battle of the campaign, the Wizard uses that ability several times to rip through legendary resistances and control the BBEG and finally use it to finish them off for good leaves the Wizard to die from exhaustion, sacrificing themself to finish off the campaign. Probably being revived shortly afterwards but still.

[@starbird3939]

I had an idea for an Echo Knight/Chromurgy Wizard who time traveled back to prevent a calaminity-knowing that it will risk their very existence. Cue heroic sacrifice

[@xthebumpx]

@@starbird3939 Plot twist: After traveling back in time the character's actions unintentionally cause the very calamity they were hoping to prevent.

[@leandromendoza5835]

Legendary resistances are an insta-success no matter what, by the wording "If you fail a saving throw, you can decide to succeed it instead" It really makes the ability non important, at least if the BBEG has enough legendary resistances left. A DM might say otherwise, and that's valid in their own game, but by RAW it wouldn't work :(

[@illoney5663]

@@leandromendoza5835 You're misunderstanding me, I'm saying they've used that ability to forced failed saves, which in turn forces the Legendary Resistances to be used. Yes it doesn't bypass them, but it can certainly force their use.

[@Ybarchov21]

Now I want those Tasha's Subclass Rankings. Y'all have me addicted to these.

[@mihanizm17]

Bladesinger good, scribes bad

[@RyanTheWolf]

Calling it now, order of scribes is S just for the damage type change

[@30vamshi]

As much as I love bladesinger, I think these dudes might not like it. They didn't like swords bard cuz it was making bards do things that bard doesn't usually do - aka not be support. Bladesinger is built around making wizards martial, I think they might dislike it for the same reason.

[@fullmetalonly450]

Scribes is great. The damage altering is just iceing on the cake.

[@Fektthis]

@@RyanTheWolf Not sure about S but I don't think it should be less than A

[@aydensauvageau9393]

As an fyi for the chronomancer, the ability that let's you freeze the spell in a bead let's you instantly use spells with a long casting time like magic circle or tiny hut

[@rockwallguy]

This is the part of the class that's broken to me. Surprised they didn't mention that.

[@michaeledwards2636]

This is the part of the class that's not only broken but potentially makes this the strongest class in the game...

[@mduckernz]

While true, it's worth remembering that you do have to know to cast them in advance, which you won't always or even often have the ability to know to do (because it expires after an hour)

[@rexradar9297]

Familiars for everyone! Or mid range summons can now be held for the wizard to set up long term control / possession.

[@jordanshumaker4412]

Keep in mind that the bead only lasts an hour so spells like tiny hut are kind of moot in casting into the bead, but magic circle is exactly what you're looking for here.

[@johncox7169]

Just as an FYI: Adjust Density says it gives advantage/disadvantage on "Strength Checks and Saving Throws". Strength based attacks do not fall into either of these categories.

[@evilsquirrel0573]

Wow, that makes it far worse

[@devin5201]

Ooooh okay so it's NOT god-like against almost every monster in the game.

[@andynelson952]

With a grapple/shove character though...

[@torunsmok5890]

@@evilsquirrel0573 at least it makes slowing an enemy more viable

[@williamtaylor6886]

A feature worth talking about more on the War wizard is adding the Int bonus to initiative. If a wizard wins initiative, AOE spells become easier to cast before battlefield gets messy. That said the extra damage and some other features of the subclass are lackluster.

[@DurandalsFate]

Evocation wizard: "Messy battlefield? No problem!"

[@HighPhoenix1754]

Being able to set up for the fight is a Godsend for any self respecting Wizard. Combine with alert and you're almost guaranteed to go first if you have at least a middling roll.

[@SadBoi_1066]

I always felt they should get Light Armor as well

[@ampage6439]

@@DurandalsFate Not really, only evocation spellls

[@brandonjameson1]

The initiative bonus is honestly the main draw. A wizard that goes first can really set the tone of a fight.

[@stumpedsloth1471]

After Tasha's, You guys should rank all of the S tiers together.

[@raymondsandalphonrahon6124]

Specially the clerics

[@r3liability]

I'm out here trying to make a D Tier adventure party just to see how hard the struggle is.

[@lamarwashington2718]

@@r3liability if everyone is a D it won’t be bad. It’s when someone in the party has a B character you will notice how crappy your character is.

[@ThrawnIsAlive]

That's actually a really cool idea.

[@LordBrittish]

Shia LaBeouf says *“DO IT!”*

[@camazettz]

One thing you didnt consider with that last chronurgy feature is that it synergies with the open hand monk's final feature to just Instantly kill anything

[@obsolete18]

Doesn’t kill legendary creatures unless they’ve used all of their legendary resistances. And most things worth an exhaustion lvl are probably legendary creatures at lvl 17 plus

[@hendrikrasmus]

Except a war wizard.

[@Ellebeeby]

@@hendrikrasmus BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK

[@tibot4228]

@@Ellebeeby Nice.

[@CitanulsPumpkin]

In terms of multiclassing, war wizard is an S tier dip for just about every class that isn't a full caster. Fighters gain a ridiculous amount of value for those first 2 levels of war wizard. Now couple that with a more magically themed fighter like echo knight and you have a front line tank that might never actually get hit.

[@0421pyro]

I agree a lot of this. The first two levels are an incredible with an eldritch knight but sadly that is the best. I don't see really any other build near as good with it.

[@cybersenpai8780]

why Echo Knight?

[@spencerlabrock7771]

2-4 levels for an artificer is pretty awesome as well

[@averyroff-nichols4358]

​@@spencerlabrock7771 I'm taking it to five on mine, but that's because my DM is basically throwing spellbooks at us right now (we're fighting an organisation of wizards)

[@Super-Saiyan9665]

@@0421pyro This is very late, but PSI fighter and and Arcane trickster both benefit from the dip as well

[@theovernight1915]

The primary takeaway from the War Magic breakdown is that there was not enough time devoted to the ice cream analogy. 😂

[@Honorablediscord2]

Graviturgy wizard casting reverse gravity, activating Violent Attraction, and then using Event Horizon, ending reverse gravity and activating Violent Attraction again. This is such a thematic fun and sick combo

[@captainpolar2343]

better idea: set up prismatic wall on the ceiling, reverse gravity (throwing enemies into the wall), drop concentration on RG (and repeat RG); DnD Shorts did this combo

[@ArgKyckling]

I think you missed something important about the War Mage's Arcane Deflection: RAW it works on every single saving throw. Yes, this includes things you cannot counterspell, such as a dragon's flame breath, a cup of ale, or even a concentration check (as those are constitution saving throws). It is the undisputed strongest level 2 feature of any wizard subclass in my mind, and it is paired with a very nice initiative bonus. The later levels of war wizard are pretty lacking, but these two abilities are absolute monsters, and I feel the war wizard deserves at least an A ranking for them.

[@dylanba5251]

Its quite nice to freely get a +4 to all saves out of combat especially. Traps are much less threatening.

[@ArgKyckling]

@@dylanba5251 My thoughts exactly, especially since you get it at level 2, when some people has +4 as their best saving throw, and you now get that on *all* saves-not to mention your already strong +4 or +5 int and con saves becoming +8 or +9 now. It's really powerful. Also, while definitely not as strong, I feel like the level 10 ability shouldn't be overlooked either. It pretty much just slaps on a shield of faith on all your spells with concentration, which is never a bad thing, and you're probably going to be concentrating on a spell most of the time anyways.

[@Archimonde259]

@@ArgKyckling While true, I feel like limiting a wizard to their cantrips afterwards does take a bit of wind out of its wings. I personally think this subclass is better as a dip

[@ArgKyckling]

@@Archimonde259 That can be a problem, though only in combat. That's why it's not meant as a replacement for shield, but an added option. Sometimes keeping concentration on that spell you cast with your highest spell slot is worth not casting a new spell on the next round. Also as Dylan already said, it's really comfortable outside of combat, where it truly shines. Besides, I don't think anyone would complain about only getting to use cantrips if it saved them from a hold person. I do agree with it being a great subclass for a dip though.

[@kozmo7]

@@Archimonde259 Sure. Or a great Gish style build with a dip in cleric or foghter

[@timothyburbage]

Brian W Foster approves of your pronunciation of Wildemount

[@SoyDrinker]

THE CRITICAL ROLE BRIAN FOSTER ARMY HAS ARRIVED BIDET BIDET BIDET BIDET BIDET

[@jordanklotz1866]

In defense of War Magic, it is a fantastic 2 level dip for an eldritch knight or arcane trickster. Just in general, it is a fantastic mutliclass.

[@monocrown3911]

It's also pretty good as an Artificer dip, chances are you'll rely on weapons as a Battlesmith, your special attacks as an Armourer or cantrips as an Artillerist, so the drawback matters much less.

[@raymondsandalphonrahon6124]

Well, they said that they would not take multiclassing into account that much.

[@jordanklotz1866]

@@raymondsandalphonrahon6124 oh I know. It definitely deserves that C. But for general edification of those who frequent KZbin comments, I thought I would mention it.

[@andrewmcmillan229]

Yep it’s not good as a straight wizard but it’s probabaly the best wizard for multiclass (maybe tied with divination)

[@37thgungrunts]

@@jordanklotz1866 war wizard is hands down one of the most powerful wizards

[@bananaman4624]

That 1 dislike is from the blades singer

[@quendi5557]

4 now.

[@rcschmidt668]

11, but we digress. They must be jealous.

[@robertbyrum6519]

As a bladesinger I can confirm that I thought about it. But I didn't.

[@Orl-Lurk]

I second the temptation to downvote as a salty bladesinger. The last video of the last class? Awww come on xD

[@fortetom8868]

Agree. I cannot wait for them to talk about it. Bladesinger is my favorite subclass.

[@williamransdell1037]

The way the saving throw bonus for arcane deflection reads it works on all saving throws not just saving throws vs magic (which means it works on creature abilities and concentration saves). That plus the durable magic gives you a monster plus 6 to ALL saves. Durable magic plus mage armor plus shield is a 22 AC (possibly 23 with a ring of protection or 24 with bracers of defense which most wizards end up with) War magic is a beast!

[@Nohawkkid008]

As a near forever DM, the first time I got to play a Wizard, I picked Chronurgy. Man, being able to force rerolls is SO useful. Nothing like Thanos rewinding time to try to get the Mind Stone again. “Now is no time at all.”

[@dravencallisto]

When Monty said they're saving the Bladesinger, I legit did my Darth Vader "NOOOOO!" out loud in front of my fiance(she's also our dm, and she cracked up since Bladesinger is my go to when I don't know what to build).

[@gabrielpasquino4270]

I'm playing a 6th level one now, got any build suggestions (just off the top of my head, which spells are must have, and at 10th level, should I raise dex or int first?)?

[@dravencallisto]

@@gabrielpasquino4270 Sorry, this is going to be long winded 😅 this just happens to be my favorite subclass since I like Gishes but also like casting high level spells. I've had a lot of fun with Shadow Blade personally, even though I know there are better options. If your dm allows you to cast booming blade with your shadow blade, definitely that. Super fun being some kind of dark jedi from a point of lore. If not, Haste/Summon Fae/Animate Objects are good choices for concentration. Always have mage armor unless you have some kind of amazing magic armor. And War Caster is amazing since Booming Blade is either more damage or good battlefield control as a reaction. I went Dex to 18 then Int to 20 and then maxed out Dex, but there's nothing wrong with going Int first or Dex first, just make sure you prepare your spells around that choice(i.e. if you go dex, don't use a lot of spells that require saving throws from targets, If you go Int, take more traditional Wizard spells).

[@gabrielpasquino4270]

@@dravencallisto No worries, i really appreciate the in depth reply! Mine is long winded too lol I recently used shadow blade, and wow, with a 3rd level upcast at level 6 that damage is insane. It really shined in the scenario I used it in; it was against a boss with resistance to non-magical weapons, so that psychic damage bypassing the resistance felt fantastic. Plus, having advantage the whole time felt very strong; I looked at the numbers, and over 4 rounds i dealt 147 points of damage, about 37 per round (I got a crit on a hit so it pushed the average up). It may be one of my new favourite spells, it feels like it's made for the bladesinger. I choose haste, and actually just found a Summon Fey spell scroll! Haste has really been impressing me; it looks underwhelming on paper, but that extra action feels great even just for utility. It's an easy disengage to move, or a dash to get into the fight quicker, or use an object to chug a potion, whatever; even without having one of those to do, the extra attack feels good. Plus, the +2 AC makes you even harder to hit; with the 22 AC I have with haste and bladesong, and the chance to shield, I'm sitting pretty. Haste, and it's counterpart Slow, are underrated spells, imo Some other spell questions: did you use Blink, or Fire Shield? How good is summon fey too? On paper it looks not great, but I feel like having an extra ally to draw agro in combat could be incredible

[@dravencallisto]

@@gabrielpasquino4270 The extra ally is good, especially if you can get your hands on a magic sword, since Shadowblade becomes less useful at that point in most instances. It's basically a budget animate objects. The best way to look at it for me is if I need to bypass resistances or get the advantage from dim light, I use shadow blade. If not, I'll use haste or my best summoning spell depending on the situation. The other thing I kept in mind was to still do my wizardly duties, so Counterspell and Dispel Magic were always in my back pocket, as was a Fireball and some information gathering spells. I used Mirror Image A LOT, wasn't impressed with Blink though. It wasn't enough of an upgrade that it warranted less consistency than Mirror Image has, and taking yourself out of the fight for the rest of the round is good for you, but bad for your allies if you're drawing a good amount of attention. I also never used Fire Shield, so can't recommend or dissuade you from trying it 🤔

[@alpkuscu4332]

I reccomend Dnd optimized channel for builds. There is a bladesinger build in there.

[@torinsmith9867]

Chronomage is simply op. It's like a dndwiki homebrew.

[@pssttssp9351]

I was really hoping for Bladesinger this time but oh well..

[@IamWalkingDead1]

My guess is because of the touch ups in Tasha's they are saving it with the Tasha's list

[@jthompson7175]

@@IamWalkingDead1 Yeah, just the change to their extra attack feature is a complete game changer.

[@tinkerer3399]

Yeah I'm disappointed as well but the Tasha alterations completely change the class.

[@jcdenton2187]

@@jthompson7175 I so wish the Tasha's alteration also gave the same treatment to the Eldritch Knight.

[@gabrielpasquino4270]

@@jthompson7175 I'm playing a bladesinger right now, and having that cantrip as part of the extra attack is a game changer. Booming blade scales to do more damage, and you can even use it at range; fire a shortbow, and you can cast firebolt as part of that extra attack. It's such a fun class to play

[@tibboocelot9272]

I'm just happy they included Matt's subclasses for this.

[@moonlight2870]

Well, they are oficial.

[@WildVii]

Guys you forgot that the mote ability does not require you to use an action casting time. You could cast Leomund’s Tiny Hut as a ritual, compress it into a mote, and release it in combat. Hope your enemies have Dispel Magic, DMs.

[@monodescarado]

I really don’t think the game designers had much input before this book went to publish. There seems to be multiple wording and potential game-abuse that slipped through the cracks.

[@TheRagnarok428]

Yeah this is why I wouldn't allow a chronurgy wizard in my games. Everything is absurdly good on them, they're already the best s tier wizard, but that's the thing that breaks the camel's back

[@KoryLunaa]

@@TheRagnarok428 Meh, I just follow treantmonk's advice, Chornurgist is great and up there with the more powerful Wizard subclasses, up until the 10th level feature, where it becomes the most powerful bar none,but it's just a matter of bandaiding by saying the spell can only be of a casting time of 1 action, and since Wildemount isnt AL legal anyways cuz it's tied to a setting, I just have that

[@WildVii]

@Chris Bailey Is it exploitable? Sure! But I agree with the previous comment. Just reword it to only be things of one action (bonus action or reaction could be fine too). That said, I don’t have too much of a problem with this. This ability requires you to be level 10. So it’s not coming on until much later in the game. In fact, in most published adventures it won’t be an issue until the end of the game. So really, why bother even addressing it if it’s going to impact less than one percent of the experience? Really a change is required for high level play more than anything else. So if a player wants to play one in a game don’t ban it. Allow it but be mindful of the effects. Hell, you can even let your player get away with it once, let them feel like the smartest person at the table, and then institute a change thereafter since you’re the DM. Plus, this is not nearly the most broken thing in the game. I mean…have you seen the Twilight and Peace Domain Clerics?

[@monodescarado]

​@@WildVii I kind of didn't say it was broken, and obviously a DM can edit anything to bring it in-line. All I was saying was that I didn't feel the Wildemount subclasses had gone through the same amount of playtesting and editing as the other subclasses in the game. Most subclasses these days get put out as UA for months, even years in some cases. I don't believe these ever were, and that's why they have exploitable issues and wording problems. Take Tasha's for example. There's very little in the subclasses presented that can be exploited or misunderstood. The Clerics are strong but I don't think they are exploitable. And that's because the Tasha's classes had vigorous playtesting where issues were flagged, edited and in many cases nerfed. I don't see any of this happening with Wildemount. It feels rushed, and it doesn't feel like the same kinds of resources and manpower were put into refining it.

[@thevisual5426]

Can we take a moment to appreciate that Kelly's shirts are always on point 👌

[@TreantmonksTemple]

I would argue that Counterspell does not mean your wizard will not be making saving throws. Whether concentration, dragon breath, fear auras, traps, our countless other factors, being able to add a +4 as a reaction to a failed save right from level 2 alone makes War Wizard uniquely powerful defensively (never mind a War Wizard can achieve a higher AC than any other Wizard in the game by level 10, and the initiative bonus is a game changer as well). Defensively superior to the Abjurer IMO.

[@raymondsandalphonrahon6124]

Is this the start of a collab? I love to see it.

[@joshhobson8279]

@Treantmonk I played the Gith version of your War Mage (just wizard, no fighter dip) and I like the versatility of the options at hand. Flaming Sphere and Booming Blade are a great combo, and I can do many of the Wizard things that we all love.

[@Fireswiper]

100% 🙌🏻

[@manlykilt]

100% agreed. Yeah, the 6 and 14 abilities are fairly janky, but Tactical Wit alone would be worth it especially if your DM is sane and disallows Chronurgy. I'm only starting on my Hill Dwarf Fighter/War Mage but heavy armor and Arcane Deflection is already amazingly useful when blowing one of your precious few spell slots on Shield feels extremely punishing. Imagine the recommended 6-8 encounters a day at level 3 (1/2) when you have only a few first level spell slots. Are you _really_ going to want to blow one of them on Shield?

[@buxtehudemuzik]

Dungeon Dudes: War Magic is one of the weakest Wizard subclasses. Treantmonk: And I took that personally. Joking of course! But it is interesting that Treantmonk ranked War Magic the #1 non-game-breaking subclass. And not just Wizard subclasses, EVERY subclass. And I agree.

[@piotaku]

Chronoturgy is a god-tier control caster

[@haydenrock8952]

Yea, this solidified my opinion that Chronoturgy wizards as just unbalanced in an unfun way. It seems to just take features of other wizard subclasses and does them better.

[@piotaku]

@@haydenrock8952 Depends on your group. If you play with people who "optimize" builds, it's fine. There's plenty of other equally powerful builds out there. In my experience playing an Artificer 1/Chronoturgy 11 wizard, the only person it annoys is the GM.

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

@@piotaku Or if the Chronoturgist is the only arcane full caster, perhaps alongside a Peace or Twilight domain cleric, it won't matter that the Chronoturgist outshines the other wizards. A Chronoturgist who passes on damage dealing spells in favour of buff, debuff, and control spells will be loved by martial characters. Though the DM will have to create custom NPC casters instead of using the weak sauce stat blocks from the monster manual.

[@wayfarejourneyman5900]

I love CR as much as the next dice goblin, but it's not like Matt Mercer's homebrew has ever been remarkable for it's balance.

[@jeffdietz630]

@@wayfarejourneyman5900 yup. I applaud the creativity of Mercer but wholeheartedly agree many of his new classes are a bit much. When echo knight and chronomancer came out you could tell they were too op comparatively speaking to their alternative subclasses (although tashas runeknight likely overshadows echoknight since then).

[@Sorentous]

I want pictures of Spiderm--- I mean, I want review of the Bladesinger!

[@joshuawoodfolk8202]

You gaveme the idea of playing a character based off of J. Jonah Jameson. He is a popular big-city reporter that openly hates on adventurers in his news articles. However, he is secretly an avid fan of adventurers and their lifestyle so he moonlights as a local masked crime fighter.

[@Mttjs1]

You didn't talk about Tactical Wit for War Magic enough. That is amazing. You want to go first in combat as a wizard.

[@johngard15]

^this. They go on to only talk about attack and defense without even touching on the support nature of so many crowd control spells. Wizard going first completely changes the battle. They even talk about focusing on strengths rather than getting everything... War mages do that by focusing on initiative and crowd control

[@FabricioSentoRebolando]

This should be enough to make the subclass better ranked

[@37thgungrunts]

crowd control, mechanics? What's that. Fireball.

[@johngard15]

@@37thgungrunts true, killing and weakening creatures before they reach the party is also incredibly effective

[@SquatBenchDeadlift455]

Agreed. War Wizard 2 is a very good on any artificer. Speed up your spell slot progression by a few levels, grab some utility cantrips like Mage Hand and Message, a reliable shielding reaction plus better initiative. Oh and a sprinkle of Arcane Recovery as well. Very solid. Since some artificers expect to be casting cantrips more often, the downside of Arcane Deflection is much less damaging.

[@brandonr2906]

Still no Bladesinger? That's the one I was waiting for.

[@Nick-tj9cr]

I know, not particularly curious about these other ones.

[@MFewwy]

You forgot that usually, the battlefield is not a 2d but a 3d. As a graviturgy wizard you can actually pull people up into the Air then make them fall. The results are massive prone condition, small damage for falling and 2d10 for the most annoying enemy. Combine fly + pulse wave and you are pulling a full 30-ft cone of enemies 15ft up into the air and dropping them on the ground(or even 20ft if we counting the +5 from the 6lvl ability). Graviturgy wizard is an amazing battlefield control character that you need to know how to play.

[@texasholdmeplease]

You just blew my mind tbh. I never realized this

[@kedarraman6690]

If you have a druid who can shape stone into spikes in the party you have the impaler special combo

[@aidanhood5483]

Y’all who ranked chronurgy B tier are crazy or didn’t read it thoroughly.

[@zaculliz]

They can make magic stone, with find familiar others can use as they casting the spell. So free find familiar för everyone. Great class with the rerolls also.

[@KoryLunaa]

@@Psuedo-Nim Any reasons why

[@Archimonde259]

It's obviously spite ratings from DMs who had to deal with a Chronurge

[@charlesgroome4467]

@@Psuedo-Nim terrible? Oof that's an interesting take on it.

[@shadowmagus0413]

@@Psuedo-Nim Smells like sour grapes there bud.

[@retrojohnny1899]

Arcane Deflection is great for saving throws as it works on things that aren't spells unlike Counterspell which when stacked with Durable Magic is great.

[@jakobbraun5180]

also good to shake that one annoying effect, that wizards normally would have a bad chance to get rid of

[@ricktavish4559]

Hey, guys. Can we do community ranking polls for the Tasha’s subclasses? That was so much fun last time! Love these videos. Can’t wait for the next one.

[@0x10001]

Normally I tend to agree with the presented scores but this time it’s a hard disagree on War Mage. It’s solidly an A tier subclass. The level 2 and 10 abilities are being highly underestimated. My guess is neither has actually played one and experienced it first hand. Mind Sliver is the perfect choice after Arcane Deflection. People tend to forget spell slots are limited, specially at the early levels.

[@KeaneCD]

Agreed - War was much more effective than I would have ever expected upon reading it

[@KeaneCD]

S feels like a tougher sell for War, but once you get the level 10 feature I could see it. I feel like it's easy to get distracted by power surge since it's got so many words that people miss the simple power in the other features - amazing initiative, no spell slot shield, and +2 to ac and saves while concentrating is a potent package

[@KeaneCD]

That's fair - it doesn't push it into an easy S for me, but I'd probably have it as a high A or low S. It's definitely powerful once you realize why it's so good. The reason it's not an easy S to me is that flat numerical increases aren't what makes a good wizard subclass. The S subclasses for wizard give more game breaking/super powerful features whereas war magic is just GOOD. Though I don't really disagree with an S ranking, it's just a tougher sell to me. I think if I played one instead of seeing it played by another player it'd be easier to see as well. That's the weird issue with the class though - the power is not in your face, so it feels less powerful, even though it isnt

[@chrisallen7174]

@@KeaneCD S isn't a hard sell at all. They don't at all see how it stacks together. You will be a better tank than most any melee character. Without trying you can easily have an AC above 30 by level 10. This is the penultimate AC class.

[@HighPhoenix1754]

It's benefits are subtle. Playing a pure warwizard, dragonborn. Currently at 14th level about to be 15th and it is godly. I've effectively got 25 AC (with shield) and because I'm encouraged to use concentration spells, I'm really thinking tactically and conserving spell slots. Over the course of multiple battles I'll only use like 3 or 4 leveled spells, and the rest I'll be tossing cantrips while my concentration spells hold strong and keep enemies scattered and weakened, making it easier for my allies to fight off enemies. And power surge, though weaker than other war wizard abilities, allows me to hit extra hard on my cantrips and spells when I do decide to use them. And I regularly keep them charged because I'm regularly shutting down spells with counterspell or dispell Magic. This class is definitely for a more defensive minded/control oriented player, but it does its job well.. defend, neutralize, counterattack, repeat.

[@37thgungrunts]

The War Wizard is one of the most powerful wizard subclasses in the game. You get what is essentially the most important part of Alert for free at second level. +4/+5 to your initiave at level 2 is incredibly powerful. Going first is one of the most important parts of combat. It doesn't matter how much damage your evoker wizard can do if he doesn't go first. A +4 saving throw is basically Proficiency up until level 13. At level 2. Every round. Durable Magic basically gives you a second physical shield when running a concentration spell. Which you always will be.

[@Zaria_Dobbs]

War wizard is really good at maintaining conc on spells, very good before you get your feats to help out with that. A +4 to any saving throw is very strong when, it comes in clutch a lot

[@HighPhoenix1754]

This. Going first + Throwing down concentration spells + Great concentration saves? And great saving throws overall? The War Wizard is subtle in what it gives, but what it gives is efficiency, survivability, and control. Now that's the shit I do like.

[@pokeredcraft3217]

But a +4 to saves seems a little lack luster compared to the arcane ward's ability to just not have you make the save if the damage can't break it

[@eshansingh1]

@@pokeredcraft3217 +4 is a *huge* bonus to saves. And yes, Arcane Ward is quite good, but saving throw boosts (especially flat bonuses as large as this!) are quite rare.

[@scribesorcerer4967]

Not only that but if you’re concentrating on a spell, that turns into a +6. Combined with a halfway decent Con, maybe Resilient or War Caster, and they will rarely drop a spell.

[@Awoken0]

As someone who plays a Chronurgy Wizard, I agree. It is great. I also love flavoring a lot of my spells so they fit the time magic aspect and have even come up with a few homebrew spells of my own or reflavored others ones made by the community.

[@PhantamaroK]

I think you overlooked the massive utility of Arcane Deflection OUTSIDE of combat. +4 to avoid traps and glyphs is great.

[@societybelike]

Just when I thought I'd learned their nicknames... They changed again!

[@Entilzha06]

They change every time.

[@societybelike]

@@Entilzha06 noooooooooo way, I had no idea /s

[@Entilzha06]

@@societybelike if that was sarcasm it doesn't translate well.

[@TheodoreMinick]

Poe's Law strikes again!

[@societybelike]

@@Entilzha06 I'll throw in a /s

[@wexton1]

I was so looking forward to your bladesinger rankings, i love it some much.

[@WiIICheck]

I wonder how a tier class for all top subclasses would pan out with the dudes. Be super interesting.

[@macc.1132]

Right, maybe take ALL the "S" and "A" ranked classes and re-rank them as they stack up against each other. Some of these "bad" wizard subclasses are actually much better than top tier monk/ranger/warlock stuff.

[@MsKeylas]

@@macc.1132 don't include warlock here

[@ideamaster11]

I think you guys underestimated the Arcane Abeyance feature. You said it is only for allowing someone else to concentrate on a spell, but if you read closely, it says you store the spell at the time of casting and it only take an action to cast the spell from the mote. The reason this is important is because you can store spells that take more then an action to cast into the mote and then cast them as only an action in combat. There aren't a lot of spells that would make this good, but there are a few: Snare, Glyph of Warding, Geas, Hallow, Planar Binding (which takes an HOUR), Magic Jar, Antipathy/Sympathy, Tsunami, and Imprisonment. Just wanted to put it out there that this feature is more OP then you think.

[@JavierSanchez-mo2ef]

The INT bonus to Initiative is probably the best feature in the War Magic subclass.

[@JavierSanchez-mo2ef]

Oh Chronurgy has the same feature as well hahahaha

[@androlgenhald476]

Yep, and chonurgy is way op

[@37thgungrunts]

it's one of the best features of any class. And then stack on +4 to a saving throw? That's massive.

[@JavierSanchez-mo2ef]

@@37thgungrunts in all honesty war magic is the one subclass that makes me want to homebrew some minor changes the most, to actually make it great at what is supposed to do tho.

[@37thgungrunts]

@@JavierSanchez-mo2ef the story on war wizards is that they were assigned to important people as guards. Thats why they have init boosts and saving throw boosts. React to danger and neutralize it. A well built war wizard will devestate your campaign. Its a wizard with no glaring weaknesses. Throw a strength check at him? +4 minimum. Save or suck spell? +4. But many people think a wizards job is to dump buckets of damage. Other classes do that better. Your job is to control the battlefield.

[@thanesgames9685]

We use the grav mage's abilities constantly. Opening things, carrying things, rearranging the terrain, breaking down stuff, making traps. Moving things around is crazy powerful. I'm really surprised you guys didn't think about a bit more. Concentration spells are ok, but good monsters get around it. If your grav mage is blasting, the gravity manipulation is easy. Its like you got stuck thinking a mage has to play one way "concentration spells", and ignored what the grav mage did to change the way the class plays.

[@djcothra4201]

I am addicted to these subclass tier rankings...

[@nothingtoreport1918]

Me too, they’re some of the best tier list videos on the internet imo

[@djcothra4201]

@@nothingtoreport1918 hard agree

[@piedpiper1185]

Can we get you guys to do a video about the spells in Wildemount? I love the image of a spellcaster summoning up a black hole to destroy a battlefield.

[@mduckernz]

Dark Star is very much this!

[@Biezer]

For the chronurgy wizard: I am absolutely of the opinion this is intended and also written as "success or not". It says "the roll needed to succeed". The roll needed to succeed is not "the DC/AC/whatever", it is the lowest roll this chracter can roll to still succeed on the task with their modifier. I get your discussion though. But I don't actually know of a better way to word it.

[@jaredpuwalski8545]

I interpret the ability to be basically legendary resistance at the cost of exhaustion.

[@BubblegumTrollKing]

34:40 What he says right here is so crucial. Graviturgy is one of my favorite Wizard subclasses not because of its core abilities, but the spells that are granted to it. This subclass gets several spells catered specifically to it and I think it's unfair not to count those options.

[@jamesn3122]

Can't any wizard take those spells?

[@nickkker7851]

@@jamesn3122technically yes but also no. A dm can give a wizard any spell through a scroll but only chonurgy and graviturgy wizards have dunamancy spells added to their spell list they can learn when leveling up. So if a normal wizard wants to learn dunamancy spells it requires the dm to give it to them

[@AtelierGod]

@@jamesn3122officially yes, so can bard.

[@shadowbladeandlightin8889]

Officialy no actually, in the wildmount book they are only available to characters who take the specific subclasses, and any spellcaster the dm gives approval to, it's not every wizard unless the DM says according to the book Correction aside, imagine a bard strums their lute and you age to near death, or a cleric prays and a black hole suddenly appears, hilarious

[@AtelierGod]

@@shadowbladeandlightin8889 then they should’ve just made it an expanded spell list on the classes and not just added it to the wizard spell list.

[@merch6887]

I've seriously watched all of these rankings this week..... I'm addicted to yalls breakdowns

[@mikecarson7769]

congratulations on working all the way through ALL of those subclasses ! this series is wonderful for giving long-term value of ideas, cautions, and inspiration. you always can add more reviews of newer sublcasses all in due time.

[@willmena96]

I've been waiting for Bladesinger since day one haha :C

[@wisdumb47]

Same.

[@geniumme2502]

its S tier. they will do it soon dont worry :)

[@Wolfman-jo3mb]

@@geniumme2502 they might not do it soon at all

[@bigdream_dreambig]

I think Wolfman is correct. They're likely to start with artificer, then move on to barbarian, bard, etc., in alphabetical order until they again get to wizard last.

[@timob1681]

​@@geniumme2502 as a bladesinger, it's definitely B

[@Hesauce]

IT'S FINALLY HERE!

[@TheZandaz]

I played a Hobgoblin War Magic Wizard with Dex Primary, Con Secondary and Int tertiary. I mainly used spells for utility, problem solving outside of combat, then during combat used haste or flaming sphere. I took moderately armoured feat, do with breastplate, shield, haste and the Arcane Deflection I was very hard to hit, and by using booming blade/green flame blade was basically a bladesinger but not requiring high intelligence. When out of 3rd level slots, used Shadow Blade to really pump up the damage. Probably wasn't the most meta, but super fun and would recommend trying it.

[@mduckernz]

Re: Chronurgy Wizard, I think it's worded in that way (one less than needed to succeed) because of effects that state that for example if you fail by more than 5 you suffer a worse version

[@1q34w]

What happens if you use it against a war wizard? You fail by 1. I get +4 saving bonus.

[@isaiahmoonlight1727]

These rankings are excellent and so addicting to watch

[@ancientdarkmagic1409]

I've remember watching the first subclass Ranking Video when they published it. It's been a long ride. :) Now we wait for Tasha's subclasses.

[@Xerverous]

Great video as always! The secret strength in my opinion of the Arcane Abeyance ability of the chronurgy Wizard is that you can turn a 1 minute or higher cast time into one action. Depending if your DM allows it, it can turn spells like Magic Circle or Tiny Hut into a really powerful combat spell that only requires one action. A really unique ability that can turn into some wonky stuff!

[@fortunatus1]

I think War Wizard should be a B rating. The trick to War Wizard is that you don't use arcane deflection against AC unless you have no choice (against weapon attacks when no Shield is available). You use it for the Saving Throw bonus. You Counterspell if you're within range and have the spell slots. If you don't have slots or not in range then +4 to save can help. Moreover, this works with non-spells. You can't counterspell Dragon's Breath or most enemy abilities. The Most Important aspect of Arcane Deflection is that the +4 to save works on your Concentration checks. It's great if you need to hold that spell. An Evocation Wizard with good defensive spells is NEVER going to be better than the War Wizard because the War Wizard also takes those defensive spells but their Arcane Deflection has more flexibility to use against non-spells. It is a supplement not a replacement. Sure, the damage is low. It seems superfluous at times but all damage adds up over time. It's not a great subclass but a C is really under-valuing it.

[@fortunatus1]

Chronurgy Wizard is OP imo. It basically takes powers from other subclasses and the Artificer and makes them better. Temporal Awareness = Tactical Wit Chronal Shift = Portent but better bc you can declare it after the roll Momentary Stasis = Hypnotic Gaze but better in some ways bc its at range and you don't have to stay w/in 5 ft. You cannot maintain it each round but the range allows you flexibility and safety that HG doesn't. Arcane Abeyance = Spell Storing Item from the Artificer but better because you can go up to level 4 in spells while SSI goes to level 2. Yes, the Artificer can do it many more times than the Chronurgist but you can have the Barb or fighter concentrate on their own Haste spell. And they have proficiency in Con along with the impetus to increase Con with ASI's. Convergent Future = an additional Portent just with a new flavor but more powerful EDIT: Looks like the community ranking is all over the place . They probably didn't like the lvl 14 feature because its confusing and causes Exhaustion.

[@fortunatus1]

DD - you guys made a mistake in the video. Adjust Density does NOT work on attack rolls. Only on Str saves and ability checks.

[@DARKVEEMON1]

A good way to introduce Tasha would be with the Artificier ranking all 4 subclasses together

[@bigdream_dreambig]

I'm convinced that's what they'll do, and then continue alphabetically from there.

[@mervynharp8347]

One more point that is often overlooked in the War Wizard is that you don't automatically start with Power Surges equal to your INT-mod. At the end of a long rest, your amount of surges RESETS to only 1. You *have* to Counterspell/Dispel if you want to use your Power Surge more than once.

[@HighPhoenix1754]

Or, you can look at is as a reward for doing what Wizards are supposed to do. Also, it's free damage.

[@michaelduke8741]

I listened to this ranking on my way to a D&D game. I sent the party a text that I might be 5 minutes late because I had to pull into the shops and grab the party some icecream on the way. My party says thank you Dungeon Dudes lol.

[@andrewpeli9019]

I think you're sleeping on the War Magic so hard. IMO, that ability to improve saves alone makes the sub-class A tier and the rest of their benefits are just a little sweetener. Wizards have abysmal charisma and strength saves and really mediocre other saves aside from int. Plus concentration is a constitution saving throw and saving on a concentration check is often worth the value of a whole turn- and if your concentration spell is telekinesis or sunbeam or something along those lines, you aren't casting that spell, so you can still use your action to use it- little loophole there. If you save on a charm, or one of the dozens of wisdom saves that eats your turn, or a stun, or any other crowd control throw when you would have failed, then you're way ahead on action economy than you would have been. Saving against the monsters that eat you is huge as well, since you can't misty step unless you can see where you're going and DMs like to be cute and swallow you head first so you can't see. Even if you're going to fail a charm with the bonus, this is still really good. Now, while charmed you can't cast anything except a cantrip, so your party isn't eating fireball and you aren't going to lose that spell slot. Also, unlike shield and counterspell, this doesn't consume a spell slot, so you can go nuts with this outside of combat making you much safer against traps and environmental effects (if your DM allows it). The bonus to your initiative is huge as well... not only is that advantage on action economy, going first means that you get to drop bombs before your enemy gets to reposition. I strongly strongly disagree with your assessment of this subclass.

[@andrewpeli9019]

Btw, this is about the only wizard subclass that I do disagree with you on (though I'd call evocation a solid A). You actually really turned me on to the necromancer and enchanter subclasses. I'm starting a campaign with a hobgoblin necromancer on Sunday, largely because of this tier list series. So overall great stuff!

[@freedfalchion9860]

My thoughts exactly; Warmage is a controller with built in features to keep spells up while doing other stuff. A tier class.

[@HighPhoenix1754]

playing a pure warwizard dragonborn (Draconblood) atm, loving it. These bonuses to saves have come in clutch SO much that it really does give you the feel of a tank mage. ESPECIALLY against other mages and dragons.

[@JP-eh4ee]

This ability saved me a lot

[@SwiftBandit23]

I agree with this statement but their assessment of the subclass is in comparison to the rest of the options that are presented. Being able to save on concentration checks/ saving throws with the war magic ability is fantastic however other subclasses have similar features that aren’t limited to just you, like the chronurgy wizard with chronal shift or divination wizard with portent. These can also have the same effect and although having limited uses are much more versatile. Chronurgist also gives the intelligence buff to initiative etc. Basically what I’m saying is their ranking was only a B/C because they’re ranking the subclass in direct comparison to all the other subclasses, and they have to take into account how each individual is going to play them. This subclass is good but there are more versatile subclasses that have the possibility of producing the same results as the war magic wizard and then some. Considering all of the war wizards abilities are combat focused. And the wizard is more of a utility class.

[@michaeljohnson957]

War magic early ability can keep a wizard at low levels from burning all their spell slots on shield. Nobody wants to cast fire bolt.

[@scribesorcerer4967]

As a Fire Bolt fanboy I will argue for the usage of Fire Bolt, resistance and immunities notwithstanding.

[@beastwithin7772]

You know what else you could do with Arcane Abeyance as a Chronurgy Wizard? You can cast Leomund's Tiny Hut in the bead and use it in combat. The Chronurgy Wizard is just busted in terms of power level. Top it off at high levels with the 9th level spell Shapechange and assume a form that's immune to Exhaustion and you just become a literal God of Time dictating who fails and succeeds.

[@toddmcculloch5399]

I agree its all about spell choices. I had fun playing a transmutation wizard who was heavy into fireball

[@toddmcculloch5399]

I said i cast fireball i didnt ask how big the room was. Fireball hahahaha

[@moonlight2870]

Warmages really shine in campaigns or sessions that go really long without a long rest. If you don't have anymore spell slots, you get to add 2 to your ac basically every turn for free.

[@EAtheatreguy]

Here's one thing the 2nd level graviturgy wizard can clearly do: encumber someone.

[@MsKeylas]

Or lure someone to unsteady surface like a rope bridge,ice layer,any other things which break under weight,and increase the weight of heaviest character plummeting them to their doom

[@jthompson7175]

Thematically, I can see playing a Hobgoblin War Wizard, maybe taking the Medium Armor feat for medium armor and a shield. I feel like Arcaine Deflection should be proficiency bonus or int mod instead of a flat +2.

[@dylanba5251]

I am playing this build. My real problem with the subclass is that it isn't doing anything to make unique use of spells like a Divination with save or die spells. But its very strong strong especially Tier 1 and another huge boost at level 10.

[@jthompson7175]

@@dylanba5251 Yeah it seems like it would be strongest low level. Especially whit the combination of level 2 abilities. I like the tradeoff that it can apply to a save as well and it can be good for avoiding a hit when you're low level and only have 1st and second level slots. Maybe dodging one hit is worth saving a slot used for shield so you can cast a big damage spell after the cantrip only round (or in the next combat). I kind of wish the bonus scaled up, but there might be a balancing issue there since it's on demand and can be applied to AC or saves. Seems like the design of the subclass is more for if you want to be a blaster who's not afraid of the front line. Not sure if they quite pulled it off, but I'd give it a try.

[@dylanba5251]

@@jthompson7175 One big tip is to have Friends cantrip on your list at Level 10. Always concentrating is valuable and Friends has no V component so you can even stealth while reapplying its effects.

[@Wolfman-jo3mb]

@@dylanba5251 Doesn't friends have to be targeted on a certain creature

[@dylanba5251]

@@Wolfman-jo3mb Its technically a self range buff spell that is later targeted on a certain creature, so it can work. I suppose you could also do Dancing Lights but both the light and the V Component make it not useful while trying to be stealthy.

[@JuckiCZ]

You overlooked the strongest option Graviturgy Wizard has: To cast some AoE effect spell and let one target to be moved upwards, which leads to hiting him twice. So Create Bonfire can do up to 8d8 dmg! Wall of fire this way does 10d8 dmg to one enemy each round, which is also fantastic! 5d8 extra per round sounds great to me!

[@MrApocryphon]

So the problem with Evard's Black Tentacles is that it affects every creature in the zone not just enemies. My friend cast it and made our melee combatants just sit idly by and twiddle their thumbs for a few rounds while being pelted at by ranged foes on the other side of the zone. Event Horizon only affects enemies giving your group a 60ft diameter ring to act in and make enemy melee combatants entirely impotent.

[@37thgungrunts]

Why don't your melee guys have any ranged weapons?

[@MrApocryphon]

@@37thgungrunts Having range is different than being good at range. Having a barbarian with an enchanted great sword extra attacks and GWM that suddenly has to revert to throwing 1 javelin they have had since level 1 is degrading. (Only one since you only get to draw one item as a free action without being a thief or taking thrown fighting style). Spells like that can accidentally ruin the fun of the other players, where EH only upsets the DM.

[@37thgungrunts]

@@MrApocryphon so in this hypothetical situation, someone plopped black tentacles in the front of a fight, instead of the middle group or rear group of enemies?

[@MrApocryphon]

I see where this is going, and I'm not biting. I am aware it was bad placement, it was a newer player who doesn't have much tactical sense. Which is completely irrelevant to my original point. Which is that EH is in nearly every single measurable way better than EBT. It is mobile, it fills a sphere instead of just the floor, it deals similar damage, it only takes a 3rd level slot or free, only effects hostiles, is not difficult terrain so would stack with other effects, and because it moves with the caster it allows the caster to effectively kite creatures with speeds of 55 or lower. Its an amazing skill that synergizes with gravity well and allows a group to fully control the battlefield.

[@37thgungrunts]

Event Horizon is a 14th level ability, requires an enemy to start it's turn within 30' of you, and is usable oncer per long rest, or by spending a 3rd level spell slot. That's a lot of situational requriements, and far closer than I'd want the enemy to me. You're comparing an ability unlocked at 7th spell level, to a spell available at 4th spell level. And honestly, I'd prefer black tentacles. I want a 20' field of save or suck (in this case save or restrained.) It's worth remembering there's major issues with EH. First, it requires the enemy to *Start* within 30' of you. If they move up to you, you're not trapped in melee with a melee combatant. On your turn you can move away, but it's going to provoke AOO. Secondly, it's a strength save. Enemies affected by this ability are going to be melee focused, which means they'll have an easier time passing it. Thirdly, it's a concentration spell. A concentration spell that requires you to be within 30' of an enemy to use. Lastly, it's a 14th level ability, so you've got access to 7th level spells to focus on. Wall of force, reverse gravity, wall of ice/force.

[@thedude0000]

Let me say this. At first, I thought Adjust Density was an extremely niche ability. It has now saved our entire party *TWICE* in Frost Maiden campaign. Running away from the TPKing monster is much easier when they run slower than the party.

[@thedude0000]

As a side note. I'm playing the Graviturgist to access their Spells. Their unique spells work extremely well and make for GREAT battlefield control. Also, the level 10 ability isn't bad....if used in combo with the unique spells: Step 1: Cast Gravity Sinkhole (5d10 damage) above the enemy that pulls enemy 20ft into the air Step 2: Use 6th level ability to move them an additional 5 ft up if needed Step 3: Watch them fall and take additional damage (2d6) Step 4: Use 10th level ability to add an additional 2d10 5d10 2d6 2d10 (for one creature)

[@dharmabm42]

Second ranking video using ice cream as a metaphor? Seems like we need a Dungeon Dude ice cream ranking video.

[@starbird3939]

S Tier flavor would be... like... caramel swirl or fudge swirl. D Tier is vanilla. Not french vanilla but like... the most basic vanilla ever.

[@ALDO_GOODENS]

And then after that, we need a gravy tier list! Since they’ve mentioned it more than a few times

[@coreysheridan6756]

RE: War Wizard. I feel like you are underappreciating the bonus to initiative. A free +5 to initiative, especially when coupled with the Alert feat nearly, but not quite, guarantees going first. I tend toward the God Wizard playstyle. The ability to go first almost all the time is huge when you plan to go for battlefield control.

[@eldritch0golem698]

with a decent constitution the war caster and perhaps even resilient feat who can even disrupt your concentration?

[@scribesorcerer4967]

20 Dex, 20 Int, Alert Feat “I rolled a 25 to initiative.” “…looks like Pafyr the Wise goes first. Again.” “I cast Fireball on the skeletons.” “They…*sigh* all fail the save.” “62 damage.” “Aaaand they are dust.” Paladin: What are you doing?! “Taking care of your light work. If I kill them this easy they aren’t worth your time.” Rogue: …y’know the funny thing is, I know you’re playing us, but you’re right.

[@michaeledwards2636]

Who tf looked at chrono wizard for more then a minute and went me must be a b tier?!?

[@sick0child]

People that want blast wizards, and don't realize just how potent of a controller it is lol

[@BassRacerx]

People who don't like Critical Role probably.

[@37thgungrunts]

@@sick0child Which is what their tier list seems to be based off of.

[@KoryLunaa]

@@BassRacerx And honestly even if you don't, Chronurgist and Graviturgist (ot even Echo Knight) they are no where near broken op will break your game, they're just one of the better subclasses ok well, except Chronurgists 10th level feature, that's dumb, but it isn't so broken you need to rework it, just slap a "spell must be of 1 action casting time" and it goes from broken op to good

[@maid_of_heart3261]

@@KoryLunaa Yeah, the chronurgy wizard is subclass but I don't see it as broken. The 2nd level ability is 2 rerolls per long rest, which is about as powerful as the Lucky feat; the 6th level ability is about as good as casting Hold Monster; the 10th level ability is quite strong, as it's basically like ring of spell storing on a stick and can make you an amazing utility caster by itself; and the Portent+ ability is greatly limited by causing exhaustion, so you can use it maybe once or twice before the risk becomes greater than the reward

[@TheScottishKayaker]

I think the chrono wizard ability for the just meets the dc or fails by 1 is worded that way for those spells/abilities/traps that have a secondary affect if the character/enemy fails or succeeds by a certain amount over/under the dc. Think the dismemberment affect of the vorpal sword.

[@sherogames6440]

As for the "adjust density" ability, I would dm that it affects everything your target is carrying as well and you cant target specific items. It makes more sense this way. If you increase thier density then thier weapon also gets heavier so they hit harder (advantage), on the other hand if you lower it thier weapon gets lighter so thier attacks are weaker but since every thing they were carrying gets lighter as well they can now move faster. Just image this as increasing or decreasing the gravity force in a 5f cube.

[@eldritchdefender7785]

I love the food metaphors in these rankings. It's so funny but also makes sense

[@AmaranthHoney]

It seems to me that with the way the Convergent Future ability works, where the roll can either meet the minimum to succeed or one less than that, it can be negated by things like Bardic Inspiration or War God's Blessing.

[@charlespeterson9668]

I had the same thought.

[@EB-hb2oc]

Based on Monty's face while Kelly was assessing the war caster, I was 100% sure he was going to give it a D rank. "What does a wizard do best? Cast spells. What does this subclass stop you from doing on your turn? Cast spells... DEEE!"

[@dylandugan76]

Be careful, you might attract that special kind of mouth breather who wants to tell you about how Tenser's Transformation is anything other than an elaborate way to commit suicide with your wizard.

[@MVCx_xB]

@@dylandugan76 tensers transformation kicks ass

[@leaf_of_the_wind]

Hey you guys didn’t account for the spells that are specific to Graviturge and Chronomancer! There are some exceptional spells that are only available to Graviturge that could increase your rating

[@jaredpuwalski8545]

The gravity spells are great for positioning enemies. I think the gravity wizard is boarder-line A tier. You really have to be able to take advantage of the battlefield though.

[@bigdream_dreambig]

They made it sound like those spells were either available to all wizards or none, not that they were only available to graviturgy/chronurgy. Was that wrong? Is there something that explicitly limits them to the Wildemount subclasses?

[@jaredpuwalski8545]

@@bigdream_dreambig it says that the dunamancy spells are restricted to these subclasses unless the Dm lifts the restriction. Now with how things are post Tasha’s, I’d say more Dm’s would be willing to allow these spells to more players/characters.

[@bigdream_dreambig]

@@jaredpuwalski8545 Yeah, dunamancy isn't widely known in the Wildemount world, so that makes sense. I guess it depends on what each individual DM wants their world to look like and their story to be. For example, you might have a long-lost advanced civilization that had dunamancy, so your wizard could only learn those spells when finding and interpreting the appropriate very old tomes. Of course, this only makes sense if the 2 subclasses aren't allowed either.

[@kparish05]

Agreed, War Wizard is C, but becomes better option as a MC if you just want a bit of Wizard to go with your Rogue or artificer. (the init bonus and saving throw options are nice).

[@37thgungrunts]

I've never seen a good argument for ranking war wizard low. I usually see it, and Order of the Scribes ranked very low. You're getting +int like Alert, and essentially proficiency in any saving throw, like a super resilience at *level two*. Anything after that is just gravy.

[@jcdenton2187]

Pairing a 2 level dip in War Wizard with an Arcane Trickster sounds really fun.

[@Tzunamii777]

IMO, War Magic Wizzies excell at battlefield control. Having high initiative gives the chance to set up those area control spells before the 1st punch is thrown. Throw in the Alert feat, and it's all but guaranteed. Layer on that the extreme unlikelihood that you'll loose concentration, and I think it's a good deal. I think B is a solid score in general, A in the right campaign. The damage abilities seem like an afterthought to me.

[@boysgames2575]

I love these videos, I can't wait for you guys to review some of the Tasha's subclasses too!

[@kidthegeek]

One thing war wizard does really well imo is battlefield control. Combining the boost in initative from the int and alert you can almost always go first. Hypnotic pattern to start is then amazing. If you need something for concentration you can take the dancing light cantrip. It can also work really well with tensers transformation. Sure power surge becomes useless in that case but I think war wizard has some good advantages to it

[@jordanklotz1866]

What you are describing is a wizard, not a war wizard. You aren't a better battlefield controller because of this subclass.

[@Hesauce]

@@jordanklotz1866 but the bonus to initiative lets you shut down an encounter before it even starts more reliably than any other wizard (save chronurgy) since you have the initiative bonus and later on durable magic rewards you for playing the controller playstyle since it buffs you while concentrating

[@kidthegeek]

@@jordanklotz1866 going first can make a lot of difference. In addition the deflection ability can also be used on your con check to maintain concentration. My wizard had a +13 initiative, I almost always went first and then could set up to our party's advantage

[@jordanklotz1866]

Have you tried just rolling better instead?

[@androlgenhald476]

@@jordanklotz1866 oh, of course. Why didn't I think of that. Let me tell.my dice to only roll a 15 or higher from now on 😆

[@waltflood3224]

I’ve got a War Mage in my party now and he always goes before the rogue. Every battle.

[@GURGLEGUY12345]

I'm so glad they released the Chronurgy Wizard. I had an idea for a time mage that involved the Divination Wizard before it came out, so I'm glad there's now a subclass that fits it mechanically AND thematically.

[@Gunn3rGuru]

Still waiting for a look at bladesinger.

[@RK9th]

Spoilers: it's pretty good

[@LoboDibujante]

Updated tier list (regarding both The Dungeon Dudes and the users): S TIER - Path of the Totem Warrior (Barbarian) - College of Lore (Bard) - Life Domain (Cleric) - Circle of the Moon (Druid) - Battle Master (Fighter) - Echo Knight (Fighter) - Gloom Stalker Conclave (Ranger) - Divine Soul (Sorcerer) - The Hexblade (Warlock) - School of Divination (Wizard) A+ TIER - Path of the Zealot (Barbarian) - Forge Domain (Cleric) - Tempest Domain (Cleric) - Oath of Vengeance (Paladin) - Arcane Trickster (Rogue) - Swashbuckler (Rogue) - The Fiend (Warlock) - Chronurgy Magic (Wizard) A TIER - Path of the Ancestral Guardian (Barbarian) - College of Eloquence (Bard) - Grave Domain (Cleric) - Light Domain (Cleric) - Circle of the Shepherd (Druid) - Eldritch Knight (Fighter) - Way of the Open Hand (Monk) - Way of Shadow (Monk) - Oath of the Ancients (Paladin) - Oath of Conquest (Paladin) - Oathbreaker (Paladin) - Beast Master Conclave (TCE) (Ranger) - Horizon Walker Conclave (Ranger) - Scout (Rogue) - Shadow Magic (Sorcerer) - School of Abjuration (Wizard) - School of Enchantment (Wizard) B+ TIER - Cavalier (Fighter) - Way of the Kensei (Monk) - Oath of Devotion (Paladin) - Oath of Redemption (Paladin) - Draconic Bloodline (Sorcerer) - Wild Magic (Sorcerer) - The Archfey (Warlock) - The Celestial (Warlock) - School of Evocation (Wizard) - School of Illusion (Wizard) - School of Necromancy (Wizard) B TIER - Path of the Storm Herald (Barbarian) - College of Glamour (Bard) - College of Valor (Bard) - Nature Domain (Cleric) - Order Domain (Cleric) - Trickery Domain (Cleric) - War Domain (Cleric) - Circle of the Land (Druid) - Circle of Dreams (Druid) - Champion (Fighter) - Samurai (Fighter) - Way of the Long Death (Monk) - Oath of Glory (Paladin) - Hunter Conclave (Ranger) - Assassin (Rogue) - Thief (Rogue) - Mastermind (Rogue) - The Great Old One (Warlock) - School of Conjuration (Wizard) C+ TIER - College of Swords (Bard) - College of Whispers (Bard) - Arcana Domain (Cleric) - Death Domain (Cleric) - Knowledge Domain (Cleric) - Circle of Spores (Druid) - Arcane Archer (Fighter) - Way of the Drunken Master (Monk) - Oath of the Crown (Paladin) - Monster Slayer Conclave (Ranger) - Inquisitive (Rogue) - Storm Sorcery (Sorcerer) - School of Transmutation (Wizard) - War Magic (Wizard) - Graviturgy Magic (Wizard) C TIER - Path of the Berserker (Barbarian) - Path of the Battlerager (Barbarian) - Way of the Sun Soul (Monk) D+ TIER - The Undying (Warlock) D TIER - Banneret/Purple Dragon Knight (Fighter) - Way of the Four Elements (Monk) - Beast Master Conclave (PHB) (Ranger)

[@richardrahl1001]

Completely agree with you guys. Graviturgy changes needed: -lvl 2 ability needs to be an action, needs a chart of comparing strength scores to holding weapons/armor and wielding them (enter physicist), needs to require an action in response (which might knock them prone, drop the weapon, pull off necklaces, drop boulders, etc), and interrupts concentration checks at -2 penalty (give or take) -lvl 14 ability needs to change to the lvl 10 and not be a concentration either; just action. And have the ability to pull in creatures and objects on the edge towards the center. An increasing physics effect- those that fail the save are also dragged towards the center of the space 5-10’. And rocks or items that are pulled towards the center would count as falling damage. -new lvl 14 ability maybe a gravity field only known to the wizard or maybe a space that increases gravity in a small area (large or huge sized creature) 5 fold. 50m/s2 is a ton of force compressing anything, would easily cause 8d10 crushing damage initially and maybe 1/2 per turn for... 3 turns max (yes concentration required because the massive crushing force). Would be better.

[@martdiamond6109]

For the Gravitrugy Wizard the level 6 ability is really nice. Moving enemies and allies with spells is really useful. Throwing people into pits, walls of fire, and other traps or continuous AoE spells really ramps up the damage you can output. The higher level abilities are so-so but level 2 and 6 find a lot of practical applications in game.

[@4helm]

Dang it! Was hoping this was the one with the Bladesinger! 😂

[@AwesomeWookiee]

It's annoying that Graviturgists need concentration for two of their abilities, especially when Wall of Fire and Melf's Minute Meteors are the best use of their 6th level ability.

[@carlterwedow5000]

I don't think I'd ever want to go all in on war magic wizard, but I really want to try multiclassing it with eldritch knight fighter someday.

[@xuklysc]

I'd say that war is the best dip for a fighter, as long as it isn't the eldritch. Any other fighter would just gain a few spells, bonus to int and free reactions. The ek is really the only fighter that is actively harmed by the limit of spells (even if it isn't much harm))

[@lord6617]

27:00 this is only true if your adventuring day is short meaning you have a plethora of concentration spells to use, or if the spells you choose to use don't benefit from the abilities you are choosing to spend concentration on.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

The Event Horizon ability should instead summon an eyeless Sam Niell to drive your foes insane.

[@DungeonDudes]

Nice reference!

[@hendrikrasmus]

I like how the C ranked war wizard has an ability at level 2 that negates the S rank chronurgy wizards capstone.

[@37thgungrunts]

Imagine the subclass that's taking the Init. bonus of alert, and the saving throw help of resilience and calling it a C. The level 2 war wizard ability is staggering.

[@kelp504]

Ngl the chronurgy wizard really breaks at high levels because the spells magic jar, gate, and magic circle exist. One of my players used it to basically transform into a creature immune to exhaustion and then they could use the ability to decide a roll every round. And it's basically a guaranteed success if they choose something without legendary resistances...

[@AjenjoAnejo]

The best use I have found for the war mage. Is for a eldritch knight dip. You can add versatility to spells, the bonus to initiative doesn't hurt. And the next turn, you can cast a cantrip, being an eldritch knight, that means you also get an attack

[@Fr4nZeR]

Why no bladesinger? You're mean :'(.. You did the beast master with ranger..

[@maxi1ification]

Tasha's release gave a small update to the Bladesinger, so they probably wanna review it there, also when they go to review the things in Tasha's if they put the Bladesinger here they would only have the Scribe for the wizard, so maybe it is a plan to give a broader video, also good since they can dedicate a longer analysis to it

[@tinkerer3399]

Beast Master is different because that is still a core class. The Tasha alteration despite being small changes the class quite a bit.

[@LordBrittish]

Loving my Goliath Bladesinger.

[@fullmetalonly450]

Its almost like there is more to be reviewed or something?

[@Fr4nZeR]

I know. But beast master revamp was mayor work. Bladesinguer was just a makeup. :(

[@Terrorain]

think the wording for Convergent Future is to allow for things like legendary resistance and shield still work.

[@MrSlayerkid117]

Had a really good time in our western fantasy campaign added a dueling mechanic, now when someone tries to draw a gun I disadvantage their draw by adjusting density. Super fun haha

[@normal6483]

I feel like ignoring the Graviturgy spells when examining the Graviturgy school does the school a disservice, because even if *every* class has access to them, the Graviturgist synergizes with those spells better for them than anyone else. Primarily because many of the spells have forced movement that can bring a creature into the air, the Graviturgist can increase that movement by 5 ft, and the Graviturgist can increase falling famage by 2d10. These spells aren't just AoE damage and crowd control, they can also do falling damage and make creatures prone. And with the graviturgist, that extra 5ft of movement can send them vertical which sometimes adds an extra d6 of falling damage. It can even make or break whether that target takes falling damage (and falls prone) depending on their size and the placement of the spells. And of course the extra 2d10 damage on top just makes these spells better for blasting, which in turn makes the Graviturgist a better damage dealer. Their kit works expertly well with the Graviturgy spells, so even if access isn't restricted those spells should still be considered when analyzing the subclass.