E3 | 1985: English Football's Darkest Year

[@BritRS904]

at least in 1985 you could still decide the night before or on the morning if you wanted to go to game, and you didn't need a second mortgage to get in

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Spot on! The concept of turning up on the day and paying a few quid to get in feels so alien now.

[@rufus1346]

I started going to football in the 75-76 season at 11 years old. I used to get a pound pocket money a week and with that I could get into the game, buy a program and still have enough money for sweets to last me a whole week. I lived within 10 minutes walk from the ground so need need to pay bus fair to be fare.

[@TheGiantKillers]

True, but you would be literally herded like cattle into a pen. Ran the risk of being hit by something at any moment, very often just thrown randomly by someone who was supposed to be supporting the same team as you. Piss filled crisp packets were a particular favourite. You were fair game to get a police truncheon if a copper thought you looked at them the wrong way. Yes, there was a very good reason it was dirt cheap and easy. Because very few people in their right mind would go. There's usually only three types of people who look back on the 1980s and Football with any fondness. 1: Season ticket holders who were in the relative safety of the main stand and most certainly never bought their ticket on the day. 2: Hooligans who went for a scrap and 3: People who probably never set foot near a Football ground until the 90s and listen to the nostalgic bull spouted by [see number 2]

[@martinsmith1538]

Could not have expressed it better.

[@MrChiddler]

@@BritRS904 you still can outside of the EPL

[@KennethHague-h5g]

I was in the stand at Bradford city that terrible day, i jumped over the pitch side wall as i was a relatively fit 23 year old. I can understand why some struggled . 40 year anniversary this year, Thanks for your piece, it should never be forgotten.

[@dessiemckenzie5857]

Absolutely fantastic work . For many years I have pondered writing a piece that brought Kenilworth Road , St .Andrews , Valley Parade and Heysel together in the backdrop of English footballs most tragic season 1985. Not only did you do that so perfectly , you also managed to set the political and social scene at the time which is a vital part of the story of that most tragic season . Congratulations on this fine piece of work and I am subscribing immediately and awaiting your next offerings with enthusiasm .

[@Battismore-Blue]

I`m an Everton fan , 1985 was at the time the best year of my life , I`ve not had many better since

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Yeah... sorry about that! Still, 87 was decent too and that was only yesterday.

[@pablojablo6371]

​@@notjustaboutfootballWhat are you sorry for ?

[@kennethpickeringsrensen9478]

Same here. The last time the club were on top, were in the banned period. The team were so good at the time, that they could have won the European champions title. Just too bad.

[@guddlom7655]

Watching football in the Early 80s was the best time for me,plenty of offs better atmosphere all together. Now.its for the middle class,there is more atmosphere in a theatre ,and just a big business not a sport I watch my local none league club nowadays, much more fun.

[@johnklimcke8875]

@@Battismore-Blue Everton were a cracking side to watch back then don’t forget on horrible pitches also. Just a great shame they were denied the chance to have a go at the European Cup no thanks to their neighbours.

[@TheRatlord74]

The contempt for the working class that you mentioned at around the 11:45 is now evident in all the major political parties.

[@JamesEagle-zh6yp]

Absolutely brilliant work. Congratulations. Could not stop watching. So many memories brought back for me and the strange thing is that as a 15 year old at the time it never seemed that bad or that bleak. I’ll be sure to view all of your other content 👍

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for this comment... and the views! It all helps! I guess as a 15-year-old in the 80s, that's all you would have known, so there was nothing else to compare it with? It seems like people either liked going to football or not; there wasn't really any in-between! I went to my first games in the early 90s, so I was introduced to it all as clubs were getting to grips with post-Taylor Report stadium development. Having missed the 80s, I look back on some of the footage of grounds then with amazement - both good and bad!

[@rjjcms1]

Very true from both of you. I never found it a bleak experience at all while I was going to all those matches,home and away,in the 80s and 90s. The only thing I disliked intensely was those metal cages that ultimately proved a death trap at Hillsborough - they were nearly all dismantled in the summer before the 1989-90 season commenced. Luckily my club Watford never had any of those awful structures and had lots of families attending and next to no hooligan trouble - except when we played Luton!

[@charliezobel511]

@@rjjcms1 climbing out of your uncovered home end to get away from Arsenal who absolutely terrorised you as the match started final game of the season around that time, got a feeling it was the week before you played Everton in the cup final.

[@rjjcms1]

@@charliezobel511 Really? I remember that we beat Arsenal 2-1 on the last day of the season,a week before we played Everton in the 1984 FA Cup final,but I wasn't at that match - we were taken on a weekend stayover with family (I was 19) and while the match was going on we were all out bowling somewhere! I do remember that in our of our last matches of the pre-season we played Arsenal at home and came from behind to win 2-1. I was standing on that open terrace near the floodlight pylon in the Red Lion (pub) corner,and two glass bottles were lobbed over the wall and smashed on the ground nearby.

[@charliezobel511]

@rjjcms1 that is my recollection of that day, I'm not saying they cleared the home end or anything but the bit where they had Watford cornered some of your fans were scaling the wall to get out rather than having a knuckle with Arsenal. I'm not really sure why Arsenal came after Watford like they did in that period because you's was the only 'family club' back then. Although I suspect it was everyone in Watford's posse knew faces in the herd due to local proximity and said they were going to do this, that and whatever when Arsenal came to town. I also vividly remember your chairman parading his new German bride on the pitch prior to kick-off and the entire away end singing "Elton John, Elton John does your missus know you're qu***" 🤣 Many modern day fans would be mortified but I'd argue it was quality banter at the time and would still be now because it was a hardly a secret what team he batted for was it?

[@generalzod6740]

I lived through this as a teenager and remember the time well. This is an excellent documentary.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for your kind words!

[@user-jg5oi1os6u]

U.E.F.A insisted the 1985 Champions Cup Final went ahead, a sickening decision as the bodies of the dead and injured were being pulled from the terraces while the players in obviously distress went through the motions

[@rjjcms1]

And it was all shown live on TV as well.

[@GG_Gooner]

I think I read they were fearful of an Italian retaliation to the Liverpool fans actions earlier, and that if they cancelled the game there would be chaos in the surrounding area with nothing else to capture fans attention. Difficult to make decisions for the best in such circumstances

[@notjustaboutfootball]

It really was a horrific evening. We'll be looking into more aspects of the tragedy in a Heysel-specific video soon.

[@pablojablo6371]

​@@GG_GoonerA big part of what happened that night is Liverpool fans retaliation for what happened in Rome in 84 and what happened in Turin in the January .

[@orourkedafootball]

I'm from Ireland but my uncle lived in Birmingham for years. He's an Aston Villa fan and travelled to see them play in Anfield on the same day of that Birmingham City vs Leeds United match. He tells the story that he got the train from Liverpool back to Birmingham and there were lads still at it near new street station.

[@daviddwyer5568]

I went to Anfield that day with my Dad. Coming away from the ground afterwards, they said on the radio that there had been a fire at Bradford but never mentioned any casualties so we thought that no-one had even been hurt. It was a serious shock to find out the truth.

[@tigre2154]

I watch alot of footy content but this is up with the best videos i ever saw because this is such an under highlighted topic that changed the sport as we know Ty for this perspective im looking forward to seeing this channel grow

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for the kind words! Hoping to get videos out more regularly!

[@jamesgolder373]

What an absolutely brilliant in depth documentary on one of the darkest years in English football great work and I will be watching all of the videos to learn more about the notorious incidents and what caused them thanks for these awesome videos

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for your support!

[@SamsRussianAdventures]

Thanks for this documentary. Deserves a million views.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for the support! We'd take a million views!

[@Soccerates]

Brilliant video. I'm happy to subscribe. I hope this channel grows!

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for your support!

[@davidlawson7558]

A really interesting and thought provoking watch mate, glad I stumbled across this. Keep up the good work 👍

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for the support!

[@telgreg]

Really enjoyed this, thank you, looking forward to more

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for your support!

[@Madkid73]

Fantastic work. Going to watch the St Pauli one now. Subscribing the hell out of this channel 👍

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks so much for the support! And hope you enjoy the other videos!

[@goonerfromjhb]

Im South African but my Grandfather is English...when I met him for the first time in the late 80's he asked what football team I supported, I told him Nots Forrest and he asked why...I told him I liked Nottingham and the Sheriff of Nottingham...he said bollocks....you support Arsenal...he died in 1997...I inherited all his match day programmes, scarf and vhs cassette collection, framed his charge sheet from when he was arrested outside Highbury

[@dlamiss]

Thought I was reading a guardian article

[@steveroberts9453]

Shocking that a stadium was so bad , you could kick a hole in it and gain entry .

[@notjustaboutfootball]

It was something else! I didn't 100% believe it until I saw the photo.

[@HHM706]

I was 19 in 1985, I worked as a warehouseman in Bermondsey that year. I worked with some blokes who were involved in the Millwall Luton fracas. Nothing to do with Football. Just a ruck. Not all fans were idiots as this video suggests. Not sure the current state of football is any better. The fans are still being taken for a ride.

[@Baresi-Unico-Capitano]

'nothing to do with football'. Spot on. Just over 10 years ago, I went to live in Switzerland for a few years. I worked as an account for a recruitment company and naturally became friends with the recruiters within the business. We had one kid - born and bred in Zurich and of Greek origin. He was a 'lifelong FC Zurich and PAOK fan'. Naturally I was drawn to him as I've held a season ticket at my local club since I was 7. But then I very quickly realised that he knew NOTHING about football. All he ever spoke about post a weekend was where he and his pal of thugs went drinking, how much they drank, how many opposing football fans they tried to intimidate at the train station, who tried to punch who and so on and so forth. That's all he ever spoke about. And the saddest part was, he was still living at home with his mum. She would still pack his packed lunches for him like he was still in school. Did his washing and everything 😂Literally the definition of a man baby.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for the comment, it's another great insight into the reality of what happened. These things rarely have anything to do with football sadly. totally agree about the current state of football - match-going fans are absolutely being taken for a ride and many others are simply priced out and have to make do with watching on the TV. It's no wonder that lower- and non-league clubs have seen an increase in support.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

@@Baresi-Unico-Capitano He sounds nice!

[@Baresi-Unico-Capitano]

@@notjustaboutfootball 😂

[@johnklimcke8875]

I remember them times so clearly so sad when you look back. Very well presented 👏👏🍻

[@maratonlegendelenemirei3352]

That aside it was a brilliant time all round. The hooligan problem was solved when the government gave the people Acid house music and drugs etc. Everything is by design from the government.

[@valmarsiglia]

Very interesting documentary, thank you. I'm from New Orleans, don't know much about the FA other than some big names, so this is a real education. I am however old enough to remember the miners' strike; my first visit to the UK was in 1984 (I was with my grandparents who were visiting friends) and it was all over the news. Always felt terrible for them.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for your support from New Orleans!

[@unusedsub3003]

I was born in Aldershot in March 85, but I grew up in Preston. My dad joined the army not long after he left school. He said there was a sense of hopelessness that just gripped the the town in the 80s. Unless your dad ran a building firm, you had no chance. The army was the only option for him. The level of violence in the town was off the scale back then. An example of this was when American punks Black Flag performed at the Warehouse night club in Preston. They were badly beaten up by the local youths, this was later mentioned by Henry Rollins in his book. He also mentioned Preston being rough when interviewed on The Word. People were depressed and angry. I remember the old Deepdale, I think it was a reflection of Preston in those times; unloved, neglected and forgotten. My dad passed away in 2009, but there is a brick dedicated to him in the new Deepdale. He was a lifelong North Ender.

[@dansk1er33]

Thanks for sharing

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks so much for sharing this. It's a valuable insight into real life at the time. Preston in the 80s sounds like a tough existence, and the anger felt is understandable. It's awful that places like Preston are so easily forgotten and allowed to simply decline like that.

[@jpross68]

I grew up in Preston in the 70s and 80s (Callon estate). I did see fighting both at the Warehouse and at Deepdale. And there were gay bashers roaming Preston town centre at night in the mid eighties. I was going to say it didn't seem so bad but now I think about it you're probably right.

[@unusedsub3003]

@@jpross68 Ahhhh Callon, used to go to a friends house there to do some astronomy. He had a proper telescope. I grew up in the relatively dull 90s. I’m from Frenchwood. I never knew about the gay bashing, how utterly depressing. I remember getting in trouble for going to Avenham Park at night, albeit with some friends. A neighbour spotted me and my Nana marched down and gave me a rollocking. Got dragged back home by the ear. It was because a kid was killed in a bush there in the 1985, my nana never forgot that. At the time we didn’t see it, but it was a wild place. Bad bad things went on.

[@breadandcircuses9967]

2:24 I remember as a kid watching live on tv Platini's free kick goal against Spain in the Euro 84 final, the whole tournament might not have been broadcast but the final was definitely broadcast live.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for pointing this out. It's an important note.

[@snupmadra3787]

Absolutely brilliant doc. Thank you.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for the support!

[@zapre2284]

1985 was an amazing year for football. Everton won the Legaue, The Cup Winners Cup and just missed out on the FA Cup. It's just a shame them lot had to ruin it for everyone.

[@kennethpickeringsrensen9478]

Agree. As I remember they started the league with two defeats in august, before a 30 match-run without one. As a fan of the blues, the season 1984-1985 was just fantastic. The two-game agg. win against Bayern Munich in the UEFA-semifinal, may still rank high in the club history. A shame the hooliganism were at the maximum level at the time, that costed a trip in the best European cup league. We could have won it the year after.

[@TheRatlord74]

Excellent work. Very easy sub and bell. Look forward to watching your channel grow.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks so much for your support!

[@idiskidine]

Great content, guys! Keep going

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for your support!

[@valentincuc4101]

I was angry long time about that heysel drama... cause Everton my fav. team had best year, form, champion, cup winners cup. and then came 29 may 1985... took a massive turnaround at our club, 5 years banned from european cups has been tough for us, but I don't blame liverpool fans for that tragedy, cause we know all and seen what there happened.

[@valiantv2897]

i know it was objectively a terrible time for football, but for me who turned 16 in 1985 it was just a perfect time

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Everything's great when you're 16!

[@slightlyconfused876]

I was at the Birmingham Leeds game, it was the only time I have been in a war zone. Leeds came to cause a riot, they caused a riot and then the FA blamed Birmingham for not controlling the ground properly, bit like blaming a homeowner for being robbed and assaulted. I have never trusted football authorities ever since.

[@hayabusasfightpalace9798]

and yet 40 years later, the utter contempt for the working class from politicians is as bad as ever

[@martinhardcastle9970]

Thatchers politics destroyed the working man. And it has not changed even the Labour party don't give a crap!

[@euansoulsby8643]

this is class content lad

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for this! Hoping to get out many more videos than last year too 👍

[@sheldream981]

I still miss just turning up and finding my mates at the same place on the East Bank Kop at Hillsborough. All seating stadia are a joke . Away fans always stand anyway . What’s the point of having rules that cannot be enforced?

[@BuckyKhronic]

Proper banging good work lad.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for the support, it means a lot!

[@Chloraflora]

Terrific video, looking forward to more /subscribes

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thank you for your support!

[@HHM706]

Scargill never had a vote for the Strike.

[@rjjcms1]

Old Cloughie may have supported the striking miners but I went to a match against Nottingham Forest in December 1984,and during the build-up to kick-off the visiting crowd of Nottingham Forest supporters that filled the away end treated to a hearty rendition of "Arthur Scargill is a w**ker." I knew which side of the divide they were on then.

[@TomTom-gh1nf]

​@@rjjcms1Nottingham Scabs 👍

[@TheSugarDaddy1]

I really enjoyed this video hope you can do more and a sure you you get all the subscribers you deserve

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for your support!

[@Coops1805]

It may of been bad.. but I bet if you ask every 50+ football fan they would go back to it in a heartbeat….

[@charliezobel511]

Absolutely 👍🏻

[@notjustaboutfootball]

This raises a really interesting point. Looking back, you can see that most of the stadiums were unsafe and neglected, but did the pendulum swing too far the other way with the identikit, sanitised stadiums of the 2000s onwards? Maybe the introduction of safe standing areas is the middle ground the game should have aimed for after the Taylor Report?

[@guddlom7655]

Dead right

[@anthonythompson1680]

I loved it at the time,it would be impossible in today's world

[@paulb4519]

Platini celebrating scoring that penalty told you all you needed to know about him as a person

[@jpberm-on-sea]

Complete myth that Millwall had "help" from Chelsea and West Ham at Luton. They simply wouldn't have been tolerated, there would've been too much temptation to kick off with them instead. There were fans from other clubs there but they were mates of Millwall fans who drank in the same pubs and went along for the ride because you could pay on the door. Anyone who thinks that there were big firms from other clubs there is deluded.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for this comment! I must say, when I read the quote included in the video, I was sceptical given the relationships between Millwall, Chelsea, and West Ham fans. But I couldn't find anything concrete to dispel it. This is partly why we started doing this, to keep learning from the input of real fans on the ground. Do you know which other clubs' fans would have been there on the night?

[@jpberm-on-sea]

@notjustaboutfootball there was quite a long build up for this one as Luton v Watford game in the round before kept going to a replay. This was Millwall's biggest game for a while and everyone wanted to be there. As you know There's a lot of teams in London and not everyone in Bermondsey, New Cross and the surrounding areas supported Millwall. We all know blokes who we drink with in our local who support other teams. They were just blokes who drank the same pubs as Millwall fans, who they supported is anyones guess but they knew it would be carnage because of Millwall's reputation and went along for the ride. They definitely weren't members of the ICF or the Headhunters. Luton fans have spread the story of other firms from other clubs being there in a attempt to save face. But Millwall fans always come out of the woodwork whenever there's a big game and this was no different. Just look at our attendances for our trips to Wembley 🦁👍

[@notjustaboutfootball]

@@jpberm-on-sea Thanks for this. Again, you can't always find this kind of insight easily these days so it's good to get a conversation going! It all makes sense. And as someone whose small hometown has been to Wembley for a playoff final, I know all about people coming out of the woodwork for the big games!

[@guddlom7655]

Absolutely no chance was there any west ham or Chelsea firms there. Especially west ham. A lot more Millwall who just.came out of the woodwork for their biggest game in years..

[@celynjones4958]

I was 12 years old and went most weeks to see Oxford as they got promoted into div 1. Some great games, intense crowds, and rough stadiums. Stamford bridge was esp. grotty and wild. Fun times ❤

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for sharing! Despite all the negatives of the time, there were clearly some great aspects to football at the time too. Seems like you got a little of everything!

[@andymuso53]

Excellent documentary

[@rjjcms1]

Very good video that captures with great accuracy so much of what was going on then in the divided Britain of widening extremes we were living in. Having been a teenager and early-20-something during that decade,living in the south of England,and regularly attending football matches from 1982 onwards through the darkest days and beyond (and NOT as uneducated as the stereotype coming from those looking down their noses as I had A Levels then and added an HND in Software Engineering in the early 90s). I should have gone to university in 1984 but that I didn't was my silly fault. They did indeed not show the European tournament on television in the summer of 1984,so the public missed out on seeing some more of the delightful skills of France's midfield trio of Platini,Giresse and Tigana and co. who had wowed everyone at the World Cup in Spain just two years earlier,plus the dashing emergent Danish side that had embarrassed England 0-1 at Wembley Stadium in a decisive European Championship qualifier in September 1983. I'm sure I remember watching the 1984 European Championship final live on television but had to make do with reading reports of the other matches in the back pages of the broadsheet newspapers in the library of my college. The nadir was absolutely reached with Bradford and Heysel in May 1985 and their aftermath. Attendances in the 1985-86 season were shockingly low,not helped by recession and high unemployment in the old industrial heartlands and entire stands and structures being condemned and partially or entirely closed at grounds up and down the country following the Bradford and Birmingham disasters,not least two whole sides of Wolves's characterful but decrepit old incarnation of Molineux and at least half of Blackpool's north terrace which had already been crimially stripped of its covering roof a few years previously. The fisrt green shoots of recovery did indeed appear in the 1986-87 season. Though,shamefully,families and women had been largely driven away by the problems at so many grounds,the overwhelming bulk ofsupporters still wanted to watch football matches but not have it blighted by violence,and were angry with the worst excesses of the hooligan element themselves. Attendances,which could hardly have got any lower,rose for the first time in perhaps a generation. With each subsequent season they recovered a little more,but from such a low base that they were still pitifully modest when compared to the period from the post-War boom to the most of the 70s. The absence of English clubs from European comptition drove some of the cream of Brotish players to move to ply their trade in continental Europe or,failing that,join the Rangers revolution up in Scotland. On the other hand,the introduction of the play-offs sparked new interest and the FA and League Cups brought many entertaining finals and stories. While some grounds underwent improvements,though,many remained rundown and unsafe,as proved by the horror of Hillsborough in April 1989. The Sun printed their lies on the front page two days later but the entire media thought that was the death knell for the game. But those who still cared for English football refused to let it die. While Luton continued with membership scheme and ban of visiting supporters,the plan by Mrs Thatcher's government to roll such schemes out was effectively defeated by the turn of the decade. Supporters formed campaign groups and some,like those trying to end Charlton's exile from the Valley,developed ingenious strategies like even forming a single issue political party that fielded candidates in the local elections! The fanzine movement grew exponentially at the tail end of the decade and remained strong as a method of rallying peaceful but effective fan action. Hoolignism was far from defeated for many,many years but 1990 did bring further rehabilitation,though with no wish to belittle its importance I found the media obsession with Paul Gascoigne's tears as the turning point that saved football a rather superficial,chattering classes,dinner party set kind of narrative. Attendances in all four divisions had already been the rise for four seasons prior to that,Hillsborough notwithstanding,and they would continue to rise as English clubs were readmitted to European competition and the moves that led to the creation of the Premier League started to rumble behind the scenes.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Wow, thank you so much for taking the time to write this comment, some fantastic first-hand insights here! It's interesting that fans like yourself who were tarred with the same brush as hooligans and treated so miserably ultimately started to push back with the fanzine movement and the establishment of the FSA (which also occurred in 1985!).

[@rjjcms1]

@@notjustaboutfootball Thank you. I wasn't a fanzine writer or editor myself but read a lot of them because they told a lot about what was going on at clubs that was scantily touched on by the much of the national media at times (the Telegraph and Times actually told a fair bit in different articles and snippets tucked away in their sports pages when I got the chance to read them). There was a long-running shop called Sportspages in Caxton Way off the Charing Cross Road in Central London,and if I had a little time to spare when I was in the West End then I'd drop in and look through various sporting publications there - including their shelves of all those fanzines. I did campaign against the plan to extend the ID card scheme because I believed it would kill the game,collecting signatures and petitions,writing letters to two or three MPs with my concerns about the effect it would have - and getting brief if courteous enough responses,including from Mr Evans - and at a meeting of supporters at the ground of one club voting for the removal of the local Tory MP (not Evans) from his honorary football club directorship because of his support for the scheme - he was absolutely furious and said he always hated the game afterwards!

[@roadend78]

I remember going the FA cup semi final game at Goodison park Liverpool v Manchester United .the most violence i had seen at football the weapons being used at the Game was a eye-opener for a 13 year Old .

[@pablojablo6371]

I was there too in the Gladwys St . It was crackers you are right.

[@TheAdArchive]

I was at the Bradford City fire and get annoyed when KZbinrs show the fire especially when clips clearly show people on fire who died. So thank you for showing some respect with the footage you showed. If you’d like a copy of the interim report or the full final report (the interim one is better and more focussed on Bradford) then let me know and I’ll send you a PDF. I have a copy that was sent to Thatcher and has handwritten notes on it. Just let me know how I can get it to you.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thank you so much for reaching out. For us, it was common decency not to show some of the more graphic details captured that day. It's an important story to tell in English football history, but like you say, it can be done with respect. I'd really appreciate a copy of the interim report, thanks. If you can email it to [e-mail] [we were originally going to be called Stick to Football before The Overlap gobbled it up], that would be great.

[@TheAdArchive]

@@notjustaboutfootballsent to you.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

@@TheAdArchive Thank you, I've received it. I will reply to you properly there.

[@TheMcmunro]

Really good watch, cheers.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thank you!

[@davidfearby9200]

A very interesting well told documentary I remember reading in my orbis football collection on flashback 1984-85 it said this " the sparkling performances of Howard Kendall's Everton were the highlights of a season tainted by tragedy" This told you just how bad things were at the time in a way football then was a reflection of where the UK as a whole was at the time it badly needed to reform Today I think all the changes made in football overall have massively been for the better I can go to watch football safe in the knowledge there's going to be nothing dangerous and nasty occurring before during and after the match it has become more family orientated and the stadiums today are in complete contrast to what they were then yes it's more expensive but you get what you pay for. I think given the hooliganism caused by the English fans in particular year after that something like Heysel was on the cards at some point and I think the ban was right and fair given how bad things had got I think English fans at the time in general needed to be taught a lesson in that this kind of behaviour must stop

[@nevermindthebollocks1171]

The Liverpool / united 2-2 draw at Goodison is one the scariest games I've ever been too.

[@pablojablo6371]

It was off it's cake and went on from late morning until early evening.

[@neilgraves5069]

Tragically sad yr for footy. Luton , Bradford , St Andrews , Heysel. 😢😢

[@Dinobaburas.]

Ahhh the good ol'e days before Foreign ownership with foreign managers and foreign mercenaries with an average of 9 Foreign players from 11 and oh....A German Manager running the international team! Isn't engerlish football the best!

[@paulpenfold2352]

I love how you manage to blame the tories for everything. Very clever.

[@alexanderjames6328]

I loved the 70s and 80 in the UK for football... not like the price before value BS - we have at present.

[@red84icj]

The media would have you believe this ,the fact was it was still OUR game sky saved it. It just took it away from the working class.

[@Lee-i6x2n]

It was a coup from the money men like Alan Sugar infact he stopped ITV getting the rights for the Premier League he tipped SKY of so they offered more money and the rest is history.

[@maryannedouglas]

Worked out quite well for us up in Scotland...half of Rangers were engerland internationals 💋

[@HHM706]

The Kent coalfields were also on strike.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Ah, missed this one! Thanks for adding this.

[@paulpenfold2352]

Where are there coalfields in Kent? Aren't you thinking of a few blokes looking after a handful of charcoal pits in the weald or something?

[@Homebous76]

Bbc and Itv did broadcast the 84 Euros "live". Not sure where you got that info' from. Also, Luton v Millwall wasn't shown live on TV.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for this comment. With the 84 Euros, only the final and one group game (West Germany vs. Spain) were broadcast live. In a literal sense, then, some games were shown live. However, it still seems accurate to say the tournament as a whole wasn't broadcast live (especially by today's standards!), although the BBC ran highlights packages as you might expect. As for Luton vs. Millwall, we're absolutely willing to stand and be corrected. I can't remember the specific source for that, but perhaps there was some confusion about a primetime audience - maybe that referred to later highlights or a news package given what happened. Do any of those ring a bell with you?

[@Homebous76]

@notjustaboutfootball France vs Portugal was broadcast live as i remember watching it! Luton v Millwall was shown as "highlights" in the evening on BBC Sportsnight

[@alexanderjames6328]

The blame was nowhere near all the fault of the English; the stadium was in a terrible state. It always seems to be the truth that gets buried... rather than hatred.

[@maratonlegendelenemirei3352]

No mention of Dennis Thatcher setting up a company in 1985 with FA supreme Sir Bert Millichip making sport stadium plastic seating? Company name is/was PEL.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

No, no mention of this in the video. But then we hadn't heard of this until now. Thanks for the comment - this is another avenue to look into.

[@gingergreek]

What a fu cking brilliant video. Did not expect so much depth and (welcomed) shitting on Neo Liberalism. Subbed!

[@OxtonSWA]

The Liverpool Manchester F A Cup semi was held at Maine Road which was a 2-2 draw and was trouble free. It was the replay at Goodison Park which United won was where all the trouble was. As you quite rightly said Thatcher hated football and especially it`s fans, as the vast majority of them were working class and therefore not Tory voters. This went back to her attending the Scottish Cup Final between Rangers and Celtic shortly after trialling the hated "Poll Tax" in Scotland. She was subjected to foul mouthed abuse from all parts of the stadium and her, what was seen by many at the time, vendetta against all football fans started then. Thatcher also had a huge dislike of the large cities in the North West of England such as Liverpool and Manchester, both footballing heartlands, again due these places being Labour strongholds.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

I've had a double-check just now, and it still seems that the first tie was at Goodison with the replay at Maine Road. At least, that's what this blog says (it's a bit wordy, but the detail is in there somewhere!): www.theguardian.com/sport/that-1980s-sports-blog/2013/apr/12/fa-cup-semi-finals-liverpool-manchester-united This Wikipedia page says the same too: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984%E2%80%9385_FA_Cup But more importantly, thanks for the Thatcher in Scotland story! I'll be looking into that. The way so many towns and cities in the north were left to decline is criminal, particularly the concept of "managed decline" in Liverpool. I'd need to look up the right stats, but I remember reading somewhere that something like 100,000 to 200,000 mostly men in Manchester lost manufacturing jobs in the space of a few years with no plan in place to help them or the community. It's beyond belief.

[@neilbartlett536]

The first leg was at Goodison

[@bigbadjohn07]

Correct, 1979 was Maine road then goodison. ​@@notjustaboutfootball

[@OxtonSWA]

@@bigbadjohn07 yes you are correct. The one I was thinking about was 1979. Apologies for my mistake

[@pablojablo6371]

No lad. The first game was at Goodison . Soz. You've already corrected yourself 😅

[@dnstone1127]

1950s next, great decade for English domestic football.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Anything is an option, so thanks for the suggestion. What starting points would you recommend for researching the 50s? Off the top of my very-non-50s head, I can think of the emergence of the European Cup and Real Madrid's rise, the Hungary team of the era (defeating England twice and all that entailed, as well as only losing one game in a few years...that being the World Cup final!), maybe the rise of relying more on the talent of individual stars as opposed to systems and tactics. Interestingly, with that last point, it seems we've gone full circle back to systems and tactics as opposed to mavericks.

[@JonathanBowdery]

Great video. 1985 was my first season going football with my mate's and apart from the odd big match here and there, i remember it being a chastening experience. Looking back it was footballs nadir....completely forget about thr TV blackout....you could buy videos of matches in the Daily Mirror at the point! Dont miss it tbh.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Wow! Had no idea about the match videos in the Mirror! What a great little detail. Thanks!

[@robertparry4929]

That Bradford tragedy has been part of firefighting training for many years since worldwide.

[@simonspibey]

As soon as you quoted Owen Jones I switched off.

[@aelfricofcedde363]

Ditto

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Fair enough! Sorry to lose you so soon.

[@mick3765]

You don't like the truth then?

[@1969gawa]

Owen Jones and the truth are strange bedfellows.

[@charliezobel511]

@@mick3765Owen Jones, truth? 😂

[@jonhay3141]

I can vividly remember how bad football was in 1985 as a disillusioned youth around deindustrialised Manchester. The game, like its stadiums, was seemingly falling apart, with lower attendances, no real sponsorship or little investment, the persistent threat of violence on matchdays, and a government and PM at the time that obviously hated the game and had no quibbles on encouraging such a decline. What should be mentioned is in that year, snooker seemed to be taking over as the nation's most popular sport as football sunk further into the abyss, as increasing numbers of young men like me preferred to play and watch snooker instead; a decade earlier, it was still a minority sport, the sign of a misspent youth, with very little money or TV coverage, now money and sponsorship were coming in at all angles, as every ranking tournament got full and often live coverage on TV from the early rounds onwards, unthinkable just a few years before. The spring of 1985 was arguably the darkest time there has ever been in the history of English football as indicated in this excellent documentary, with sickening violence and wipespread loss of life through horrific tragedies, crumbling and inadequate stadia, and authorities who didnt have a clue how to cure such ills. It was a desperately harrowing time for football as inexorable decline seemed to be the inevitable result, but meanwhile snooker was filling the void, with the final frame between Steve Davis and Dennis Taylor in the World Championship final in Sheffield getting an extraordinary 18 million viewers watching after midnight as football looked like becoming the minority sport as snooker was only a few years earlier. The recovery of course started in the new decade with Italia 90, Gazza's tears,The Premier League and all that, but four decades on, the problems are entirely different ; a sanitised, corporatised spectacle, with an excess of money that has gone too far, with many traditional fans priced out and even average footballers in the PL multimillionaires. The documentary brings back memories starkly how bad it was in 1985 for football as I can remember all too vividly.

[@MrChiddler]

Except - thats almost all bullshit. Its a myth invented afterwards

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for such an interesting comment. That's fascinating about snooker! Had no idea it rose to such popularity at that time and even rivalled football at one point. 18 million viewers watching after midnight is incredible! And you're absolutely right about the game going too far the other way since the 80s. It will be interesting to see where it goes from here because it's evidently losing popularity with traditional match-going fans, especially at the top level.

[@MrChiddler]

@ football was massively popular in the 80s. It wasn’t on TV much because league thought it would impact attendances but it was absolutely still a huge thing.

[@jonhay3141]

Football's popularity was diminishing at that time,but that was when it was at its absolute nadir. The revival from the early 90's was wonderful to see after such a low point.

[@David-g8e6w]

United won the cup, wasn’t all bad. NORMAN 85!!!!

[@wavydavy9816]

I've just watched a video about when Threads was released in 1984, when I was 10. I was also a big football fan. So it's no wonder I've turned out like this really 🤪

[@ComradeLeonTrotsky]

Can someone answer an American question? “Baseball club” is this meaning “cricket” thanks

[@gibson617ajg]

It's 'Baseball Ground'. Once the home of Derby County Football (soccer) Club before they built a new stadium ( 'Prideless Park’) built. I have no idea why it was called the 'Baseball Ground'. It's nothing to do with cricket though - although there is a small cricket ground nearby.

[@geoffpoole483]

@@gibson617ajg The clue is in the name; baseball was played there in the 1930s.

[@colincolin5696]

You should do a video on the shady side of man United in the 70s-90s

[@robertobee3198]

Good documentary, but why on earth did you quote Owen Jones ' class war garbage opinion on football hooliganism? The man has zero knowledge of football topics and is widely regarded as a left wing extremist. Bizarre and annoying.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for your comment. We used the quote because, to us at least, it nailed the link between the policing by the South Yorkshire police at the Battle of Orgreave and Hillsborough. We didn't interpret those words as relating to football hooliganism, or football at all really. I have no idea if Owen Jones knows anything about the game, but if most political writers are anything to go by, I imagine you're right!

[@jonhay3141]

Another point he was barely in his nappies at the time,too!

[@martinhardcastle9970]

Maggie destroyed the country and left many unemployed and disenfranchised. So every Saturday get drunk and a punch up was free,only way to release the rage caused by poverty.

[@stevenjohnson7442]

The nastiest period for English football. I hated it during the 80s. The stadiums were old,nasty and dirty,the vile racism and the violence. I'm glad those days are gone for good.

[@charliezobel511]

Best time to be a football fan, wish the 80’s went on forever because top flight modern football is nothing but a cash grab tourist trap toilet! Even the lower leagues have been sanitised to death, thank God our cousins right across mainland Europe can still generate decent atmospheres which manifest some proper needle because football in the UK has been dead for over two decades!

[@andrew_l1900]

@@charliezobel511maybe those in the 80s shouldn’t have ruined it for future generations by being complete dickheads, imagine being so dumb you think that acting like a thug and criminal makes you cool….🤦🏽‍♂️

[@stevenjohnson7442]

Ugh!! That nasty, vile, hooligan, racist era has gone and will never ever return. Thank the lord

[@guddlom7655]

​@charliezobel511 I totally agree with uour comment. Especially the premier leauge which wants to destroying. Football in the uk us just run by money and greed nowadays.

[@charliezobel511]

@@guddlom7655 I still watch football on TV all the time, I am a lifelong football fan after all but I stopped going to matches years ago as everything that made attending such a buzz has totally evaporated 🙁 we moved up to Lincoln nearly 8 years ago and although plenty of people I know, both neighbours and work colleagues, go to watch the Imps all the time I have only been once. It’s just not for me anymore, going football is pony nowadays because the life has been sucked out of it.

[@spursgog835]

Miners in Wales also went on strike! I always thought clubs treated me, a fan, as nothing more than a steer amidst a herd of cattle. That stated, I never went to a match to fight which was decision made by morons who had no interest in the game.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Ah, sorry, missed the Welsh miners! The word "cattle" is probably the most frequently used in the books and articles I've read, and podcasts I've listened to, about fan treatment at the time, so you're spot on with your description.

[@Gibbo1]

Where's all the punch ups and Harry the dog then?

[@bobholness203]

Everton had the pinnacle team to do well and it all got taken away through no fault of their own. 🤦🏻

[@L28owlarse]

Why didn't they win the league in 86 then?

[@bobholness203]

@L28owlarse runners up to the league and fa cup. They did the following year,

[@alanbaird82]

The biggest losers? Southall Stevens Van den Hauwe Mountfield Ratcliffe Reid Bracewell Steven Sheedy Sharp Gray..... also Richardson Harper and Heath,an absolutely phenomenal Everton side...sigh!

[@notjustaboutfootball]

It really was a great team - such a shame they didn't get a crack at the European Cup.

[@pablojablo6371]

Eh ? What about the people that tragically died and their families ?

[@bobshields6829]

People wonder why Britain left the EU. The working class could not stand people 10 miles up the road in their own coutry never mind in Continental Europe.

[@thegeezerrr2042]

I was 17 and even though Im not a Liverpool fan I remember clearly at the heisel stadium that the Italian fans kept coming onto the edge of the pitch goeding the Liverpool fans, the Idea that Liverpool fans were responsible for starting it was crazy at the time people who watched it couldn't believe the narrative of it was Liverpool fans fault..

[@awgroom]

Awww bless, victims again.

[@rjjcms1]

There were hoolies on both sides. You could see Juve firms,their faces half covered up with black-and-white scarves,lobbing poles and missiles back at the Liverpool fans in the TV footage we stopped and stared at open-mouthed,while the commentators continued to say how disgraceful the scenes were.

[@rjjcms1]

Also,it was alleged that extreme far right groups such as Combat 18 had infiltrated the England supporters and were involved in agitating trouble at Heysel. Does anyone know if this was the case? It wouldn't be an enormous surprise. There were troublemakers who became experts at stirring up trouble in a pi$$ed-up crowd,then melting away into the background after it all kicked off while the unkowing clods they used as willing foot soldiers did the damage and took the rap. It took a long,long time before the authorities even began to get wise to their activities and grew the ba//s to started taking effective measures like banning them permanently from grounds and making them surrender their passports.

[@lennon1482]

@@awgroom grow up

[@awgroom]

@@lennon1482 Accept reality.

[@kins749]

I thought this was a football not a political channel, shan't bother anymore

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Sorry to lose you! Episode 0 outlined what the channel is about 👍

[@charlesstilesmysterydinersfn]

"It's nice to escape from life's worries for 90 minutes plus added time. That's what football is, no?Escapism and entertainment?" - notjustaboutfootball. By the way, here's a rant about the Tories and an article from Owen Jones.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

​@@charlesstilesmysterydinersfn Of all the places to start and stop a quote, you've chosen well! The rest of that video, including the answer to those questions, makes it very clear that, in our opinion, there's more to football than escapism and entertainment, however nice they are.

[@charlesstilesmysterydinersfn]

@@notjustaboutfootball I copied & pasted enough, I see what you're trying to do. I won't subscribe but I'll stay for the awful but amusing political takes.

[@Bigdugs]

The riot at luton was disgraceful

[@charliezobel511]

🥱

[@thegeezerrr2042]

I'm just a football fan not a Liverpool fan I said what I saw no chips on shoulders like you by the sounds of it

[@niallmcardle7]

Heysel

[@niallmcardle7]

Great video!

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for your support!

[@Mute_Nostril_Agony]

Notice how the thuggish Liverpool fans conveniently forget about their shocking behaviour at Hysell when playing the innocent about Hillsborough

[@L28owlarse]

Liverpool fans do not try to forget about Hysel, Did you just watch the video and see the chaos that was happening at grounds in the UK? You are not telling me Millwall, Chelsea, West Ham etc sent in structural surveyors to make sure the ground was safe to riot in before the started. It is only pure luck no major violence related deaths occurred. Apart from the old couple Man utd fans pushed the wall on and killed at Ayresome Park. But you never hear that get mentioned. Nobody "played innocent about Hillsborough". Liverpool fans were innocent at Hillsborough.

[@gibson617ajg]

Heysel and Hillsborough. Common denominator?

[@L28owlarse]

@gibson617ajg The common denominator is stupid people opinions on the causes.

[@L28owlarse]

@@Mute_Nostril_Agony Liverpool fans do not forget about Brussels. It was terrible what happened but other teams see it as a "Get out of jail card" that excuses the behaviour of their fans of the same era.

[@geoffpoole483]

@L28owlarse I'm sure you know this but for the benefit of those who don't, tragedy at Hillsborough was only narrowly averted on several occasions during the 1980s. The 1981 FA Cup semi-final between Spurs and Wolves is one example.

[@mackfin8869]

Pickeled eggs

[@nicksealey7004]

Best years of my life late 70s, 80s MUFC,, ICJ,,,

[@JohnJohn-zn8ib]

Great video, there were some scumbags throwing cans at players, bizarre. Thatcher thought she was high up, she was a common old mole.

[@notjustaboutfootball]

Thanks for the comment! I must say, the thought of attending a football game with a sand-filled can to throw at a player is odd behaviour. Never felt the urge myself!