E65 | Cheating Accusations | ZRL Race 4 | FRR Tour France | Rate My Ride

E65 | Cheating Accusations | ZRL Race 4 | FRR Tour France | Rate My Ride | Quiz + more

Рет қаралды 2,117

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 49

@RyanCondon Ай бұрын

Having watched the show live, I fully respect Nathan's approach to this situation. Zwift is a means to an end, its a tool and not life & death. Having made every single noob mistake there is to make I can respect the grind and need to want to improve but to have to read of hundreds of accusations, remain motivated and then also remain professional is inspirational. I am also pretty sure its not why Nathan makes theses shows or shares his live streams. It's evident, Nathan has shared everything in his live streams and now in this show to allow anyone (that wants to) to have the conversation and again this should be recognised for what it is... 100% transparency, which is rare. To anyone that's watched his live streams, then read the shared content and listened to this episode, It's obvious he has not cheated but he has opened up the conversation to people like me who had no idea that this side of Zwift existed, one of the reasons I stick to inflicting pain on myself up ADZ instead of on others online. Be kind people. Ride on. :)

@sharonbulkeley1743 Ай бұрын

Krakey, has not cheated. Hats off to him for having such an open discussion and for always streaming his rides. Keep up the racing Nathan, our team and I enjoy racing with you. Cheers LJ

@inthedrops Ай бұрын

Thanks Luke.. appreciate the support and competitiveness.. cheers

@RyanCondon Ай бұрын

This is probably the best comment on here. I agree.

@RoyImahara Ай бұрын

Fantastic topic of discussion. My team mate is going through this exact issue at the moment. I tried varying my power more in my last race and it was not so good on hills, but my legs felt much better on the descents. I think there is a physiological advantage because your legs aren't putting out the same power constantly.

@stevej_on_a_mtb Ай бұрын

Great topic and debate. I would love to see WTRLs analysis of a fit file for an outdoor crit. 😆 "sorry we've had some complaints that you're not riding at threshold and we think you are using Newtonian physics to gain an advantage"

@IntheDraft7 Ай бұрын

They wouldn't be comparable. You aren't going to crash into anybody in Zwift.

@stevej_on_a_mtb Ай бұрын

@@IntheDraft7 so if we don't have collisions, braking, or cornering, are you suggesting its the rider with the most power that should win? Sorry if I've misunderstood your comment, as I noticed in your club ladder race you were sprinting and coasting down hills, drafting efficiently, and modulating power through the rolling sections. We could race in ERG mode for 30 mins and I can stop paying my Zwift subscription. But that sounds like an FTP bragging contest. Its acceleration, the ability to recover, and racecraft that wins races. This is why indieVelo uses speed instead of wkg as its main metric.

@IntheDraft7 Ай бұрын

@@stevej_on_a_mtb I'm not sure how you got that out of my comment. I'm saying that a person is much more likely to have "spikey" graph riding with a group IRL than riding with a virtual group on Zwift. I would have assumed a person watching my 5v5 race from a couple days would understand why I sprinted on that one downhill section. You had to have seen that I steered myself over so that I could get a super tuck in hopes that I could hold the group that way I could get some recovery after going up the first part of the Reverse KOM section. It didn't work and I fell back further and yes, I had to sprint to catch back on to the group again. I would have thought that was pretty common sense move in that circumstance. Everybody modulates their power in a race to stay in the draft, and yes even go down to zero watts when going down a hill, or if you find yourself rolling off the front of the group. You just have to apply common sense as to why and when riders are doing the modulations.

@psymanj73 Ай бұрын

Gutted can’t get on to the Live show but loving watching the recording back! 🎉 Great chat and loved the different viewpoints from the guests! 💪 In the end, by its very nature Zwift cannot be policed (even attempts to control professional sports are dodged by those with the most know how), so we will have to accept that it is all about the fun and less about a comparison to others around the world. Yes it is annoying to think that people are prepared to break or bend the rules. There is an argument that, in the end, constant calling out of people ends up being even more annoying than knowing people might be breaking the rules. Having said that, and I accept this is hypocritical 😉, please update weight. 😂

@inthedrops Ай бұрын

Hey Simon, have appreciated your support and your comments. At the end of the day, we are all trying to acheive the same thing. How we go about it individually tells everthing about us. ultimately, I feel that most of us choose to be open and honest, which is the path I chose. Leade by example is my mantra.

@psymanj73 Ай бұрын

@@inthedrops the openness and honesty I saw on this show is highly commendable 👊

@nikloriggio153 Ай бұрын

I watch you’res robs and gerbens vids all very helpful . Does make me laugh as gerben is always racing a cheater 😂 which is not good tho . But strong rider 👍. I watched you’re ZRL race as normal as I race later in the evening and normally a good indication of pain that I am going face as I was in C now been moved to B . And I know you have been training hard lately as follow you . And I thought you were strong in r3 and when see you’re end power I thought should have been higher but it’s clever racing .the art of zwift racing is using the least power you can 👌. 100%you are not cheating

@inthedrops Ай бұрын

Thanks so much for watching and I am super happy that you have gotten some helpful insite for all of this. Thats the most we can ask for. So you are in B- B1? What div and team are you in so we can follow your progress?

@nikloriggio153 Ай бұрын

@@inthedrops hi Nathan am in coalition exodus B1 southern division NIK L . and love all the banter you guys give each other keep it up .

@GingerWarriorCyclingClub Ай бұрын

These accusations. What a load of absolute bollocks!!!

@inthedrops Ай бұрын

Thanks GW.. at the end of the day, we are all trying to do the right thing. I really appreciate your support. Keep punching mate!

@MB-pq4hx Ай бұрын

Guy is not pedalling normally, and using flaws in the system to get an advantage he wouldn't have otherwise. How is that bollocks other than you don't like the outcome? "yes your cadence is unusual and is likely gaining you an advantage." From the race series referee.

@stevej_on_a_mtb Ай бұрын

@@MB-pq4hx maybe take a look at Fascatcoaching and have a look at some outdoor criterium power charts. Their analysis shows that a rider spends 50% of the time soft pedalling. They should probably be DQd for using flaws in physics.

@GingerWarriorCyclingClub Ай бұрын

@@MB-pq4hx I'm saying so as it's not intentional. Why would you knowingly cheat, when live streaming every race?

@out_spocken Ай бұрын

@@MB-pq4hx you can't cheat if the system is flawed. That's not a riders fault. At all. Maybe if race organisers or other riders don't like it they can get the fuck off their trainers and ride outside instead. Otherwise, blame the system not the rider for adapting to the conditions laid out for them, and everyone else.

@robertnobles8189 Ай бұрын

I watch all of Rob (Zwifty Zwifter) and Gerben’s (pronounced Hair-Ben?) videos! I’ve gone from Cat C to Cat A and 267w FTP to 317w in just 8 months by watching them! ;)

@inthedrops Ай бұрын

Thanks Robert..they both have amazing vids.. and both are amazing riders/racers. I’ve learnt soo much about racing in the last 12 months. I look back at my earlier racers and am amazed at how ineffective I am.. I’m surprised I won any races..

@RideWithGerben Ай бұрын

LoL! Pronounce it like 'German' hard 'G' and then you are close. Thank you Robert and your progress is impressive!!!!!

@markojarvenpaa2486 Ай бұрын

@@RideWithGerben nah, Hair-Ben sounds about right 😆

@MattiasThyr Ай бұрын

commented on Facebook the first accusations, that this is how you pedal IRL. Welcome to my Swedish Zwift Riders Groupworkout on Thursdays always I as your leader and wo designer!

@GeorgAndTheBike Ай бұрын

Great show and a very interesting discussion. Regarding the cheating question: Well, you finished both races in front of me, so it clearly must be cheating 🤣🤣🤣... Just kidding, great racing mate!

@inthedrops Ай бұрын

Hey Georg.. I didn't finish in front by much. How are you handling being back in C? Tough gig! Thanls mate..

@bbbishop132 Ай бұрын

I think your issue has to be hardware related with such a jump in duplicated power from one race to another. I had a snap, found it to under read or over read depending on the temperature of tyre/trainer but when warm it was surprisingly accurate only 2 watt difference when i switched to kickr V5. However when cold at the start of every race it would over read by 20w... or if i calibrated cold it would then under read at the end of the race when hot. They cant be accepted as a power source for 'serious' racing. I bought the ethernet adaptor for my kikr to get 10hz race mode specifically so i could better feather my power in groups. If that is what you are doing in groups and the Zwift recommended trainer, combined with their software is giving you free watts then certainly you aren't to blame and not trying to get an unfair advantage. I would guess my 1 second fit file would vary massively from the 10hz experience i percieve i get with race mode!

@inthedrops Ай бұрын

Thanks.. I'm leaning towards a trainer issue, but I willl swap my trainer for my wife's trainer and see what happens.. Cheers

@drumtoe Ай бұрын

I was accused of cheating years ago when it was sticky watts. Yes, it was unrealistic, and I did a lot of things to change that once it was determined what was happening through the game. I got a new trainer that recorded more frequently rather than using my power meter that I thought was allowed. Then people said I must still be cheating by having a lower ftp, but having big sprint power because it was a wheel on trainer. So I again got a new trainer that responds more frequently and better calibrated, direct drive and virtual shifting. All while recording my races. But then when all my backup evidence is there, then it's that I'm sandbagging and should be a C, or that I'm not racing to my potential, and if I train better I would lose weight and become a better cyclist. I don't have time to train more, I don't have time to be a better cyclist. I have children and a wife, and a real job, and live in a city that makes it difficult to ride outside. Zwift is still fun, but all the accusations on the big guys of zwift, who are staying within the rules of the game, is ridiculous. I will continue to record my races cuz I'm vain and like to rewatch myself.

@ZwiftyZwifter Ай бұрын

There’s only so much you can do. You’ll never please some people

@xandershawvlog Ай бұрын

I got barred from the ladder league for this. The leaders said it was unnatural and would cause a crash in a peloton. I argued that o have coasted in a peloton many times and not cause a crash. Ultimately I did not want to give an opposition rider the a free lift to my team mates so sat on. Every time I rollers through I backed off. It’s seems logical and you are right as when coasting you tent to drug backward in the pack. It’s just energy management. Allaphillipe is an example no of a spiky rider. For reference also on a Kickr core with latest hardest and full factory spin down. I could use my crank power meter but ironically it reads a little higher and is quicker to react to power going down.

@inthedrops Ай бұрын

Thanks Xander. Whilst I didn’t show it in the show, I have videos of me riding outside, stopping and starting a lot. That’s how I learnt to ride in big fast groups when there is less than 40-50cm between us at 50km/hr. Ultimately everyone had a difference experience and a different opinion on what is acceptable and what isn’t. All I can do is be honest and I’m happy to suffer the slings and arrows if it means others can learn and grow from it. Appreciate the comment

@repmortskcab8483 Ай бұрын

I think it is pointless to compare with road cycling graphs. BMX races profiles would be better. I Would not expect a BMX rider sit flat around FTP, constant on/off

@MattiasThyr Ай бұрын

Cam had an, at the time, famous bot to do his rides to get the Tron

@cobbscurve Ай бұрын

It's cheating. He's doing it to gain an advantage, no other reason. The excuses and handwaving in this video are pathetic.

@ZwiftyZwifter Ай бұрын

Obviously he’s resting to gain an advantage. But cheating is gaining an unfair advantage, in what way do you think it’s unfair?

@mikebrooks215 Ай бұрын

If you can justify an accusation with a logical argument you might strengthen your argument but you haven’t. Where is the unfair advantage you say he’s getting? What credentials do you have to call out someone and have you done a recent weigh in?

@cobbscurve Ай бұрын

@@ZwiftyZwifter Martin's response on that email explains it fully. It's "trying to game the system, based on cadence and power patterns". The graphs & explanation about ftp and sandbagging are also clearcut.

@ZwiftyZwifter Ай бұрын

@@cobbscurve they’re really not. How is sandbagging relevant? The bit where he (alone in the cycling world as far as I know) believes that ftp should exclude periods of low power?

@cobbscurve Ай бұрын

@@ZwiftyZwifter just the bits of low power where you're using a game exploit

@RobGass Ай бұрын

Hide your power graph and legs on your stream and there will be much less ammunition against you 🙂

@inthedrops Ай бұрын

Yeh, I thought about that, but I think I’ll keep showing it. As I mentioned in the show, I’m going to hold myself to a higher standard and I want to demonstrate that. I did a race an hour or so ago and pedalled almost the entire time. So..