E74 - David Bell Ejected Arguing Umpire's Quick Pitch No-Call - Did Peralta Violate the Rule?

[@johnvincent7170]

Me earlier this week: No way we'll get to 100 ejections by end of May. Aaron Boone & David Bell: Hold our beverages

[@tigerlee1106]

I think we will see 250 plus when the season is over

[@mse326]

Does that mean a hitter can get in the box and be alert by the 8 seconds but never get in the set position so the pitcher can't pitch and gets a pitch clock violation? That can't be right. So what are the time parameters for getting reasonably set

[@LindsayImber1]

This is PRECISELY the scenario I would love to see because it is a pretty big loophole. There are no parameters for becoming reasonably set because when baseball created the pitch clock rule, it chose "alert to the pitcher"-language that mirrors Official Baseball Rule 5.07(c), which is the pre-existing pitcher delay rule aka the 12-second bases empty timer (rarely if ever enforced) that started when "the pitcher is in possession of the ball and the batter is in the box, alert to the pitcher." OBR 5.07(c): "When the bases are unoccupied, the pitcher shall deliver the ball to the batter within 12 seconds after he receives the ball. Each time the pitcher delays the game by violating this rule, the umpire shall call “Ball.” The 12-second timing starts when the pitcher is in possession of the ball and the batter is in the box, alert to the pitcher. The timing stops when the pitcher releases the ball. The intent of this rule is to avoid unnecessary delays. The umpire shall insist that the catcher return the ball promptly to the pitcher, and that the pitcher take his position on the rubber promptly. Obvious delay by the pitcher should instantly be penalized by the umpire."

[@Digitalgems9000]

as i said, and have been saying for the past year, these rules feel like they are made by people who never played ball at the high level or even little league. you have a small connection with the batter when you're a pitcher or batter. you basically are both ready and you pitch. adding a timeclock to all of this just creates a bunch of unnecessary buffoonery that we're all seeing now. i only played double a ball as a pitcher not the big leagues, however, this is definitely a step backwards

[@tw1nn319]

@@LindsayImber1 i think its pretty obvious that an umpire would allow any legal pitch to be a good pitch under the 8 second mark as long as the batter didn't violate the pitch clock rule, it would be pretty inconceivable to call a quick pitch when the batter has been "alert to the pitcher" for at least a second, but would love to see the chaos if it ever played out though. Gread vid linds!

[@closethockeyfan5284]

​@@tw1nn319 Agreed, eight seconds is plenty of time to take get reasonably set. If you're not reasonably set by 4, then I don’t see much arguing about it.

[@patcon314]

That was exactly my thought. I'm waiting for a batter to "alert" to the pitcher with his eyes on the pitcher and feet in the box, but with his bat in one hand and touching the ground.

[@r3d5ive87]

The crazy part is the pitch was a ball.

[@timetowakeup7394]

Pitch clock is going to be the cause for breaking the record of manager ejections in a season.

[@tigerlee1106]

Yes sir

[@closethockeyfan5284]

More like the players' and coaches' lack of understanding how it works. But we have seen an uptick in ejections unrelated to any new rules too, multiple factors involved.

[@Phil007QOS]

@LindsayImber1 isn’t Peralta coming set before the batter is alert though?? Clearly pitching from the stretch, looks to me like should be violations for coming set before batter is alert.

[@Matthew6418]

Does David bell get an extra life if he gets 100 coins?

[@dpwolk]

Really good analysis. Really fun. Makes the game much more interesting and complicated. Love your work.

[@7ItalianStallion]

Loving all the content, keep it coming

[@BillyM82094]

2:21 love the Mario coin sound especially when Brendan Burke says that Bell is getting his money’s worth

[@bernier42]

That’s Lindsay’s thing. A Mario coin sound effect every time an announcer says the one being ejected is “getting their money’s worth”. Surprisingly frequent.

[@Mack.Morrison]

My first thoughts were that pitches 2 and 3 by Peralta were quick pitches.

[@Kibayasu]

It definitely feels like the argument was that Peralta was set before the batter was alert but I think Peralta was timing it as close as possible. It's hard to say for sure since it looks like the broadcast only shows the moment right when the pitch is thrown. Can probably tie this in with the new "mind games" related to the pitch clock. Just a little bit ago it was the batter being alert to the pitcher but not in the box until the (batter's) last second and now a pitcher might be throwing as soon as a batter is alert AND set in the box. Lots of battling between the spirit and letter of a law right now.

[@tigerlee1106]

How many times are we going to see the double manager ejections before the season is over? I am going to be at least 7 before the season is over

[@MrMaelstrom07]

What is the corresponding Fed rule?

[@bigpoppa1234]

Batter looks set to me (at 1:38) and he's looking at the pitcher. Not sure why the pitcher is expected to be a mind reader that he's going to keep "waggling" the bat even though he's in a stance that is unquestionably a hitting stance. Ditch the theatrics, bring the bat up and be ready. As per the "off guard".. how can the pitcher be catching a batter who has his eyes locked on the pitcher and his bat in a ready to hit position "off guard".

[@randominternet5586]

No kidding. These batters are ridiculous.

[@Tylerhopkins3106]

Great video, I don’t think I have ever seen a game where both managers were ejected if there is another game where this feat happened I would love to know thanks for sharing both videos of Boone and Bell’s ejections!!!

[@jchamp_7]

terry francona and phil nevin were both ejected on the SAME PLAY!! now that is bonkers!

[@johnvincent7170]

@@jchamp_7 was just coming to mention that one. That was crazy

[@LindsayImber1]

​@@jchamp_7 Here's the video of the Kulpa Francona/Nevin ejections: kzbin.info/www/bejne/opjYfYuumr6CoKM

[@Digitalgems9000]

@@LindsayImber1 LOL amazing ty

[@chrisMoutkastragtop]

Of COURSE it was Ron “I can do whatever I want” Kulpa.

[@karlrovey]

I'm looking forward to the ejection in today's Dodgers/Cardinals game.

[@tchevrier]

if Bell had acted like a civilized human being, he may have been able to get his point across, but not when you act like a maniac.

[@bernier42]

I know nothing about him beyond what I see in ejection videos, but he gives the impression of a man with extreme mental instability. Like, what on earth happened in this video that was worth getting THAT upset about?

[@swankgd]

You know, most "objective" rules don't have the word "reasonably" in them. They're both subjective to some degree.

[@doohuh]

2:10 may be how it's written but it wouldn't be enforced this way.

[@gregorykoch6634]

So if the batter somes alert to the pitcher before the 8 second mark but never comes reasonably set, the pitcher can't deliver the pitch and it's a pitch clock violation on him?

[@annettemalaski1967]

The batter came set and two seconds latter tried to claim that he was not set. The batter was trying to gain a quick pitch! The pitcher called his bluff!

[@ronpeacock9939]

Seems like someone who just wanted to argue.. I saw no quick pitches here. Bases empty so no need for the stop... all 3 the batter has the bat on his shoulder and ready... Good no-calls... I think Bell just wanted to fire his team up... either that or he don't know the rules (which wouldn't surprise me at all)

[@MikeM-ox3nd]

Great explanations!

[@Digitalgems9000]

the deliberate / subjection part is easy to make. if the ump tracks the pitcher's movement throughout the game and then does some crazy move like that, and throws the batter off guard, pretty easy to tell. good breakdown as always

[@teebob21]

But it is not illegal to change the speed of one's delivery from pitch to pitch. Once the batter is set in the box, the pitcher can deliver as quickly or as slowly as he likes. There is some old video of Cueto playing games with his delivery preliminaries.

[@Digitalgems9000]

@@teebob21 you need to re-read the rule. deliberate action to catch the batter off guard.

[@LindsayImber1]

The problem is these were the first three pitches for this particular pitcher. Makes it a bit tougher! In general, it's a good way to gauge whether a pitcher is acting oddly though!

[@auzmo]

@@teebob21 he is using the set position though and while not required to come set cant not come set in a deliberate effort to catch the batter off guard, which is seems fairly obvious to me he is doing.

[@alanhess9306]

@@Digitalgems9000 teebob21 knows the rule and nothing he wrote is wrong. As you say, deliberate action to catch the batter off guard is illegal. But it is not illegal to change the speed or style of his delivery as long as the batter is reasonably set in the box.

[@michaelfalkner1186]

Anytime you want to either get your umpires under control or back them up, Manfred... 74 in 53 days, and that's not to say if there were any more on Sunday. Way too damn many.

[@roymauler]

It has been abundantly clear for the past couple decades or so that MLB has very little control over the umpires. If they did, several of the umpires would have been fired long ago. Hernandez, West, Bucknor, Kulpa. I am convinced that the umpire's union has pictures of high ranking MLB officials being intimate with goats.

[@DirkFedermann]

I don't think there is a rule that says that the pitcher needs to be aware of, that the hitter is aware of the pitcher (say that three times fast 😂). But I feel like the hitter came set at the 11 second mark at which point the pitcher didn't look at the hitter. Can you get "unaware" of the pitcher again, if the time left on the pitch clock allows it? Because that could be a loop hole too.

[@fifiwoof1969]

Gotta love the 8th inning.

[@CrustyCrendan]

I think this should have been a Scherzer rule violation. By the time the batter looks up the pitcher is already coming set and looking towards first. Doesn't look like he made eye contact before coming set

[@jsunflyguy]

It was a ball anyway, is there any point to coming out and arguing even if he was right?

[@holmj12]

I think it was the fact the manager felt like it happened 3 times in a row without being called. However, the umpires calls were correct. But I do feel the rule does need to be changed so that last pitch is considered a quick pitch

[@teebob21]

Common sense is something for which David Bell has no time.

[@seanmahony1484]

Deliberately catching the batter off guard AND he doesn't make eye contact with the hitter. Scherzer rule only applies if you aren't the Yankees. It's clear why the batter is confused, yes he is in a reasonable, ready hitting position but the rule states the pitcher and batter MUST acknowledge each other. This pitcher doesn't look before starting the wind up and delivery.

[@djdangerfield590]

Sometimes I think David Bell and Aaron Boone are having their own ejection competition that we arent privy to.

[@stephenj9470]

Doesn't this violate the Max Scherzer rule? Also, why is he pitching from set with nobody on?

[@LindsayImber1]

No, because the batter was alert to the pitcher when the pitcher came set (though the batter wasn't "reasonably set" at that time).

[@stephenj9470]

Oh. I thought the Scherzer rule meant they had to be in the box, bat up, eyes on the pitcher. Man, these pitch clocks complicate already complicated pitching rules...

[@Digitalgems9000]

you can pitch from the set if no one is on too

[@LindsayImber1]

@@stephenj9470 Yes, they do (just not with bat up). That's actually a pretty good difference between "alert to the pitcher" and "reasonably set" ---- "Alert" doesn't require your bat to be up!

[@karlrovey]

A lot of relievers pitch from the stretch regardless of whether or not there are any runners.

[@SOXGATORS]

Only 3 ejections today it was quiet day 😂

[@kinkaid7477]

Lol,

[@CreightonRabs]

It's an UEFL double-play: Aaron Boone and David Bell getting ejected in the same game.

[@jimtoms7591]

Bell showed more histrionics than your average 6 year old throwing a tantrum.

[@newnathan1987]

It appears Luke Maile was reasonably set, and then intentionally came unset to try and provoke a quick pitch call. David Bell was just mad when it didn't work, because he's a hack.

[@duffyy1]

Quick pitching isn’t allowed anymore. Come on umps get with it please.

[@rayray4192]

Quick pitches have always been illegal, and there were no quick pitches. Get it together

[@ekoostic]

if you wanna cause a fuss about it, at least do it on a strike call

[@Digitalgems9000]

manager doesn't care about a strike or ball at that point, it's on principle of wrongdoing

[@teebob21]

@@Digitalgems9000 of which there was none. David Bell and getting angry about things he doesn't understand: name a more iconic duo.

[@Digitalgems9000]

@@teebob21 not sure i agree with that. dependent on the pitcher's motions and subjective nature of the rule, it could be argued it was a qp

[@Digitalgems9000]

@@teebob21 and the entire "catch the batter off guard" part

[@cinci4life116]

@@teebob21 That was a clear quick pitch under 5.07. Could even argue that Maile wasn't reasonably set which violates 6.02. 99% of the time Bell has a legit arguement when he gets tossed like today and 2 days ago with the sticky inspection. Pitcher is supposed to be tossed immediately if they find something. If that was a Reds pitcher do you think they would allow him to wash his hands? Hell no. MLB has to protect the Yankees at all cost.

[@truthillinois6397]

Bell spends more time in the clubhouse than in the dugout. We’ll just call him Mr. Ejection!

[@lastdance2099]

Well, the batter certainly felt that it was a quick pitch. I don't see how to evaluate the subjective quick pitch rule except by umpire intuition. I think these two quick pitch rules and their interaction with the pitch clock rules is just too complicated. Umpire school is going to have to start offering PhD's the way things are going.

[@tubes-lut]

Once the ump calls a few, it stops.

[@lukesoutdooradventure]

Do you still work while you live on your homestead ?

[@joshwrogers]

IT WASNT EVEN A STRIKE. Clearly being one sided. Blue needs to be sidelined and fined or suspended without pay.

[@ge_mail]

Glad i found your channel 👍

[@caras2004]

Both managers lead their leagues in ejections 3

[@gregoryfarshtey6856]

Batter didn't call time. He was set then dropped his bat for no reason. And if they called a quick pitch, it would have been a ball ... and it already was.

[@rayray4192]

Batters don’t call time out. Umpires call time.

[@gregoryfarshtey6856]

@@rayray4192 You're right. Did the batter ask for time? No.

[@per-kjell4844]

Great video, she work for MLB 😂because she knows the rules better than most of the announcers, for that matter, most Mangers

[@alanhess9306]

I would say Lindsay knows the rules better than every announcer. Announcers suck when it comes to knowing the rules.

[@austin.draude]

Watching David Bell argue with umpires is comical... He looks like a possum. Snarl and act out, and then scurry backward. Snarl and act out a little more and then scurry backward again. I want to know who he has compromising pictures of, to still be Cincinnati's manager. He's got almost more ejections than wins.

[@JJDSports2012]

If umpires tossed managers for being bad at their job, Bell and Boone would get ejected every game.

[@albondinga6479]

more like a quick un-set on the pitcher

[@alanhess9306]

As explained in the video, there is no need to come set.

[@-RD]

Red vs Blue

[@penguin44ca]

Looked ready to hit

[@charleslaurie62]

This is How to ruin baseball

[@tw1nn319]

pretty big jump there, dont you think? slippery slope fallacy - when someone makes a claim about a series of events that would lead to one major event, usually a bad event. In this fallacy, a person makes a claim that one event leads to another event and so on until we come to some awful conclusion.

[@incubusrok]

​@Tw1nn yeah that doesn't mean what you think it means, champ.

[@tw1nn319]

@@incubusrok I just copied the definition from google, what are you on about, that’s exactly what it means

[@roymauler]

It would be great if all the managers conspired to come out and argue endlessly so that this pitch clock results in longer rather than shorter games. Oh well, one can dream I suppose. 😆

[@auzmo]

Definitely an effort to catch the batter off guard by not coming completely set. Bell wins this argument I think. And the previous batter hit into an out on it, which is probably what he is more mad about than the pitch analyzed in this video.

[@rayray4192]

Wrong, but thanks for playing. We have a parting gift for you- a rule book. The rule was even stated in the video. Did you even watch the video? A pitcher doesn’t need to come set with no runners on base.

[@auzmo]

@@rayray4192 unless he doesnt “in an effort to catch the batter off guard” which he did. You are the one that did not read or listen.

[@rayray4192]

@@auzmo no legal requirement to come set. Lindsay states this fact in the video. If the pitcher attempts to quick pitch the batter to gain an unfair advantage then the ball is live giving the batter an opportunity to hit the pitch, and then the ball is dead and one ball is awarded the batter. I see no quick pitch in the case play. Batters are going to get in the batter’s box and be ready to hit , or they won’t be playing in MLB.

[@rayray4192]

What the previous batter did is irrelevant. Bell is a petulant child so who cares what he’s angry about. Bell won nothing. The fact you think he won his pathetic argument is hilarious.

[@rayray4192]

@@auzmo when the pitcher lifts his non pivot foot and when his hands come together as he begins to deliver a pitch to home plate the whiny bitch batter is looking 👀 at the pitcher and his hand are in a hitting position. Tell us how the pitcher gained an unfair advantage by rule.

[@johnhunley2825]

This whole episode is so stupid. First of all, the pitch was a ball anyway, so what does the manager want the umpire to do? Change the call from a ball to a ball? Why would you even care as long as the pitch is not called a strike? Second of all, and much more significant in my book, is the fact that managers argue at all. If you want to let the umpire know you disagree with a call, fine, but no umpire has ever changed a call because the opposing manager came out and argued about it, and they certainly are not going to change anything (except maybe who gets to act as manager for the remainder of the game) after the manager yells and cusses at them and spits in their face for 30 seconds. We call these men "professionals" and our children look up to them as role models, and yet we tolerate (and even encourage) behavior that would get you fired if you tried it on your boss, or arrested (or shot) if you tried it with a police officer. People who can't understand why today's young people have no respect for authority might wanna watch a couple of these videos.

[@cinci4life116]

Not stupid at all. It was an illegal quick pitch that Peralta got away with more than once. Wouldn't you want your manager to stick up for your team if the other team kept doing something illegal and getting away with it?

[@alanconnelly3921]

This guy gets ejected a lot

[@jasontoms5272]

David Bell is a national embarrassment, lol.

[@josephyodiceyodice5990]

The clowns running MLB are ruining a sport that's been around since the Civil War. This "fixation" to speed up games has reared its ugly head in so many ways and the players no longer see fit to play the game in a sportsmanlike, professional, manner. I've watched baseball since the mid-'50's and I don't ever remember so much nonsense coming up on a daily basis.

[@rayray4192]

Wrong, but thanks for playing. 25 minutes have been eliminated in average from the length of game. Everyone likes the shorter games.

[@totallykoolyeah]

What everybody doing with the extra 25 minutes

[@rayray4192]

@@totallykoolyeah hey, that guy is posting again.

[@josephyodiceyodice5990]

@@rayray4192 Why do you go to a game at all if you are in a hurry to leave ? Most people who enjoy an activity like more and not less of it. I, really, don't understand why a baseball fan would be glad that the games are taking less time and all the confusion these new rules are causing is definitely effecting the way the games are being played. You really like a batter getting walked on a 3-2 pitch because the pitcher took too long to deliver the pitch ? Whatever !? 🤔

[@rayray4192]

@@josephyodiceyodice5990 I like 3.5 hr. games myself. My Fenway tickets were very expensive. Got there 3 hrs. before first pitch and was dancing in the street listening to a Dead cover band before the game. Fenway is Disneyland for baseball fans. I’ve been to every stadium including old Commiskey and old Montreal as well as 100 minor league parks. I sit in row one and hope for extra innings. Attended many regularly scheduled double headers back in the day. A Sunday afternoon sunny second game in The City is magic. Owners are not fans.

[@barney6888]

girl's rules for girl fans