Eagle: The fate of non Jeep American Motors

[@P_RO_]

It always saddens me to see the slow death of AMC, a once-great hard-fighting underdog worn down to the point it just could not get back up again to fight another round ☹ I don't know if Iacocca really believed in Eagle and wanted them around because his main focus was naturally the Chrysler brand, but I'm sure that he believed that he could sell them, and perhaps the effort might become more lucrative than he expected so it was worth trying I guess. It was a strange time for the US car market as Japanese cars had become more 'Americanized' and respected for their virtues, but nobody was fooled by rebadged cars no matter who sold them. There was also uncertainty of what would happen if the rebadged models were dropped, pushing a lot of buyers into simply buying what was essentially the same car directly from a Japanese brand dealership instead. French cars were never popular in my part of the world no matter whose name was on them, nor were really small cars like the Colt popular back then either. Another regional quirk is that none of these cars were referred to as "Eagle"; instead everyone here called them "AMC Eagle". This is the South and that's just how we are, no offense intended y'all 😁 And this is also where the mountains begin. That fact meant that a lot of folks here were and still are very interested in AWD and 4WD cars, since many days out of the year there are snows at the higher elevations which makes them a very practical choice indeed. Prior to this you only had Jeeps and pick-ups to choose from, but now you could get a car better suited to family use and they came with much better fuel economy too 😎 Those models were fairly popular and you did see those on the local roads, but very few of the others. Eagle did do one remarkable thing; they convinced a lot of the hold-outs from the past who would still buy only American cars that imports really were OK, and they could keep their pride in buying an American brand even if the cars weren't built here. Lee Iacocca was someone who you felt you could trust and if he said this was an American brand then it was. I do wish that he and Chrysler had kept the AMC brand alive and hadn't changed to Eagle but such is the way things sometimes go, and I doubt that this one thing would have much changed the final outcome for these cars. Nowadays nobody who wasn't there when it happened knows who and what Eagle was and I'm glad this channel has highlighted and thus kept alive yet another part of our automotive past.

[@autochatter]

AMC was such a innovative car company....thats was always losing money. Always seemed to have their backs to the wall and small budgets, so I wonder if that was part of the reason they had such interesting stuff.

[@P_RO_]

@@autochatter The big 3 had "normal" well covered, so AMC had to stand out in some other way to be noticed. They had to 'think outside of the box' just to keep going. And yet one of their biggest and longest-running successes was their "American" which was about as plainstream and boring as you can get.

[@earlscheib7754]

AMC was on life support when Renault took them over in 78, but due to government contract law at the time AMC was forced to sell off it's military division AM General, Chrysler was also forced to sell off Chrysler Defense maker of the Abrams tank to general dynamics as a condition of the Regan bailout.

[@doug6191]

9:29 - that vehicle had so many different names depending on the market. The sliding door mechanism was pretty slick to make it work on such a short vehicle.

[@autochatter]

Yeah they were neat.I think all the major Japanese brands had their own tall wagons too then..Nissan Prairie, Tercel wagon,,Civic wagon,etc

[@doug6191]

@autochatter Yep, the other brands had their tall wagons, but this was alone in having a sliding door, I think. That's what I liked about the Summit wagon and Expo LRV (US market). I think even the bigger MPV had conventional doors at first. (That vehicle deserves a video!) I believe the Expo in other markets was available with that Eclipse turbo motor. That had to be fun.

[@Scottj2011]

Eagle. The Chrysler version of Geo

[@autochatter]

Yeahhh..pretty much. LOL

[@sutherlandA1]

Or Merkur

[@weegeemike]

In a way, yes. However Eagle was supposed to be a little more upmarket, and Chrysler actually manufactured a car themselves for Eagle (LH based Vision) while no domestically produced GM vehicle was ever sold as a Geo, they were all rebadged imports, much like most Eagle models...but not all.

[@davidglodoski2525]

omg! yes! agreed. but they had some cool cars too

[@OtterlyInsane]

Fun fact, the Espace was originally designed for Simca which was part of Chrysler Europe. They turned it down and Renault later took it up. Chrysler brought out it's similarly styled people carriers around the same time as the Espace, so it may have influenced those. When Chrysler pulled out of Europe, Simca etc were bought by Peugeot. Chrysler and Peugeot are now owned by Stellantis now, circle of life...

[@doug6191]

4:41 - They never should have sold the Premier as the Monaco. Bad product planning. That undermined Eagle from the very beginning.

[@autochatter]

Well they were both a thing prior to the acquisition. At least Chrysler did somthing with alot of the R&D Renault and AMC put into the Premier with the LH sedans.

[@johnnymason2460]

​@@autochatter The LH cars were influenced by the Eagle Premier. They shared nothing with the Premier, though. Chrysler confirmed that.

[@autochatter]

@johnnymason2460 They used them as inspiration LOL. French vehicles have a funny way of working out for Chrysler..The XJ Jeep was a Renault and AMC concoction. The Omni and Horizon had French roots too.

[@johnnymason2460]

@@autochatter I know what Chrysler said. The XJ was an AMC project. That was in development before Renault took over. Chrysler said that the LH platform was an all-new platform(different from the Eagle Premier/Dodge Monaco). The Dodge Omni/Plymouth Horizon was based on the Horizon sold in Europe by Simca. That was confirmed.

[@autochatter]

@johnnymason2460 Bob Lutz quote: "the Premier had an excellent chassis and drove so damned well that it served as a benchmark for the LH ... the spiritual father, the genetic antecedent of the LH is the Premier." The platform was created much quicker than usual and the lead guy on it came with AMC when Chrysler bought them.

[@DMETS519]

The 90's sunset the Eagle and Greg Kinnear together.

[@anthony_rivera4735]

Would you ever do a video about the Merkur brand?

[@autochatter]

Yes.

[@jpicard81]

4runner?

[@autochatter]

????

[@doug6191]

@@autochatter I interpreted that to be a suggestion for a future video

[@jpicard81]

@@doug6191 correct

[@autochatter]

@jpicard81 Ahhhh! Yes! 4 Runner will be done! I have done Landcruiser and Toyota trucks already. I'm currently on a cruise ship...Did you know there's alcohol on these things???? 😉

[@doug6191]

@@autochatter Obviously, you need to do a video on a Cruze. Or the Mercury Mariner. Or the Nissan Quest. Or the Dodge Journey. Or any car with porthole windows.

[@GreenHawkDrive]

Thank you for including me man. Much appreciated, nothing but respect🤝😄

[@autochatter]

No Brainer Dude!

[@atdcorp28]

I had a 92 Eagle Talon mid range. 5 spd..i loved that car.

[@Ramcharger85]

The Eagle was the OG crossover. That said. They should have made the Eagle brand the crossover division of Jeep. Kinda like Subaru with their AWD cars that came later in the 90's.

[@autochatter]

It's a good idea, but Crossovers wasn't even a thing really. The 90s was the decade of the SUV and Jeep had the covered with the Cherokee and later Grand Cherokee. That Summit Wagon would be as close as Eagle would get LOL. Subie wagons were niche and most popular where the ground turned white.

[@doug6191]

15:09 - GM's equivalent wasn't Saturn; it was Geo. Saturn was much different - more of a proof of concept that GM could design & build a true import fighter with an altogether different approach from the legacy GM brands. Eagle (and Geo) served as a label to group rebadged vehicles built by other brands.

[@autochatter]

Geo,Eagle,and Saturn were all considered import fighters....Saturn just had alot more effort (and MONEY) thrown in it it....I think we're on the same page. At least Eagle could say the Talon was built at a joint factory and the Vision was Mopar.

[@doug6191]

​@autochatter Saturn had a lot more money because they did all the R&D from the ground up. Eagle & Geo only needed a Marketing team and distribution network. Yeah, they were all import fighters, but Eagle & Geo were more of a value proposition since you & I could literally just buy the Corolla or Mirage rather than the Prizm or Summit, respectively. There was no Toyota or Mitsubishi twin to the Saturn SL. (Not arguing. My main intent is to comment to help your algorithm.) 😊

[@autochatter]

@doug6191 I appreciate it! Another factor...Especially for the smaller Japanese brands was buying a import and being able to have it serviced within 100 miles of where you lived!

[@doug6191]

@@autochatter Yes, that was true. Probably a bigger benefit to Mitsubishi and Suzuki than Toyota. Mitsubishi entered the US market only ~10 years earlier, so they didn't have a large dealer network when Eagle was launched. Suzuki had an even smaller footprint, if I'm not mistaken, and they just had their reputation beat to hell by 60 Minutes & Consumer Reports for Samurai rollovers when Geo launched.

[@autochatter]

@@doug6191 CR beat up the Samurai, Bronco 2, and the Trooper in the 90s.

[@BensEcoAdvntr]

I was a kid when the Eagle Vision came out and I thought it was one of the coolest looking cars ever. Still looks good today, decades later

[@autochatter]

I think the first gen LH cars in general looked sharp too.

[@doug6191]

10:47 - Early in Greg Kinnear's career, before he got a big break with "As Good As It Gets". I think he just did a tabloid show on E! Network before the Eagle commercials.

[@autochatter]

Nice!

[@GeeEm1313]

I remember that show.

[@autochatter]

@GeeEm1313 I remembered these Eagle ads with him back then...I mean he was no Joe Isuzu...But who was?

[@doug6191]

@@GeeEm1313 Talk Soup Apparently, he was also in a handful of other small roles 🤷‍♂️

[@CPTDoom]

Years ago I was walking to the local Metro station here in DC when an elderly woman called to me from her second floor balcony. She was on her landline with the police, trying to report a clearly stolen/abandoned car and asked me to see what kind of car it was. I yelled up that it was an Eagle Summit and she was totally confused. She had no idea that brand ever existed.

[@autochatter]

I was dating a girl in the early 90s whose Mom had one. I can easily see many people not knowing Eagle existed. I've talked with folks who worked at dealers with Jeep/Eagle, and the Eagles were just kind of there. Doesnt mean they were bad. I recall Medallion and Premiers having some reliability issues I didn't get into.

[@joellamoureux7914]

The talon was not a Galante it was a eclipse. Maybe the eclipse was a Galante? I have to say that Eagle versions were consistently better looking than any of the other clones.

[@autochatter]

The Eclipse was based off the Gallant yes.

[@OLDS98]

Thank you for another video. I thought it was interesting how you explained Eagle. I liked the fact you included the details about AMC and Renault and the later connection of Mitsubishi. You are correct about the Chrysler 300 M. It was supposed to be an Eagle. It was turned into a Chrysler. I recall the Premier and Dodge Monaco. The Eagle Vision looked like an Oldsmobile. You could called that car Oldsmobile Eighty-Eight and people would have believed it. I thought it looked the best out of the three LH cars underneath the Chrysler New Yorker . I thought the New Yorker was the best. It is sad it was short lived, but they had to think quick and Eagle was it. They took AMC and turned it into Eagle quick and fast and on a budget. Jeep lives on globally thriving. AMC was like little car company that could. We have lost so many car brands since. Three should not be dead( Oldsmobile/Pontiac/Mercury). Thank you again.

[@autochatter]

Thanks for your insights as always Olds! AMC was a great company. Great ideas they had but were always broke!

[@OLDS98]

@@autochatter You are welcome. Yes, you are right. The French( Renault) could not hold them up it seems. They always struggled. It is interesting how long some of their designs lived on like the Hornet and it kept being reinvented. The Hornet is a Dodge crossover on the same platform as a Alfa Romeo in 2024.

[@autochatter]

@OLDS98 Yeah I've seen the new Hornet. I don't know if it's a good fit for Dodge and is kind of $$$......Is Dodge becoming the new Eagle????

[@arieljones4595]

You.mentioned it was sad to see Plymouth go in 2001. Indeed it was. Weve lost a lot of American brands in the last 25 years. And quite a few of them were very old names. Eagle, Geo, Plymouth, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Hummer, Saturn, Mercury. Did i miss any? Chrysler is in hospice. GMC is a duplicate brand. Weve gained Rivian and Tesla. And Chrysler created the ridiculous "Ram". We call those Dodge trucks.

[@autochatter]

I think you got them all. Still crazy Chrysler is down to one model currently!

[@P_RO_]

You missed Scion and Merkur, and I fear that we will soon be losing others. We're not done for yet, but it's possible that it could happen and maybe not too far from now.

[@autochatter]

@P_RO_ Merkur was Fords attempt to get 80s yuppies into one of their products instead of a BMW. Poor Scion was a youth brand as the average Toyota buyer age kept rising.....But the cars and one price model attracted more older folks to some of their cars LOL

[@arieljones4595]

@autochatter Did you see that Toyota is now introducing an ultra luxury brand to compete with Rolls etc? "Century". Do you think it might attract young buyers like they hoped Scion would do?

[@pyrexmaniac]

Say.......GEORGE-et-toe JEW-jar-o. Georgetto Giugiaro. Very good!

[@autochatter]

LOL..I should have his name down by now! He's styled so.many cars, I'm sure I'll be mangling it again some day!

[@davidbelleau776]

I worked at a Jeep/Eagle dealer in 89 and 90. The Premier was a nice comfortable car. They weren't too bad reliability wise. The Eagle Summit were nice and we hardly had any in for warranty work. The Eagle Medallion drove nice, but they were "junk". We had so many complaints and 2 customer buybacks. We started getting arbitration cases brought to us. Chrysler would re-sell the buybacks and sell them with extended warranties and free maintenance. The Talon TSI AWD was a rocket and decently reliable.

[@autochatter]

Working at a dealership in the 90s, the 3rd party ext warranties for used cars had blacklisted models you couldnt get a warranty on.The Medallion was one.

[@aguerra1381]

The Eagle Sumitt Wagon was one fun vehicle to drive. I've known of at least 2 used car dealers that chose those as their daily drivers. They loved them. Could have driven anything else but chose them.

[@autochatter]

I thought they were pretty neat too.

[@littlejohnny47]

About 3:40 you state that the AMC Eagle was a full-time 4-wheel drive while the same year Subaru’s were only part time 4-wheel drive. I believe you made a mistake here as I drive several early Subaru vehicles and they were all full-time all wheel drive. A minor mistake here or is my memory failing? Thanks for the video!

[@autochatter]

The earlier Subies were not full time 4 wheel drive..You engaged it like a truck, but they had no low range..I think the Subaru XT ( that doorstop looking sports car they had in the mid to late 80s ) had optional AWD. I'm not perfect though, so if someone had a 80 Subaru with full time Awd you could run on pavement, please chime in! The AWD system in my previous car (WRX), was amazing. It was too confidence inspiring when the roads got wet!

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

Great video as per usual. Thanks for shining light on these. I especially liked the 1995 Talon TSi the best. They still look phenomenal. Thanks for the interesting chatter.

[@autochatter]

Thank you Rob! What's your next video on?

[@MotorMaster_Stunticon]

@@autochatter 1997 car of the year-it’s nearly complete. Stay tuned.

[@autochatter]

@@MotorMaster_Stunticon Nice! I'm dropping my next one tonight.

[@GermanCarGuyMN]

I honestly don’t think I’ve ever seen a single Eagle vehicle in person

[@autochatter]

Considering how relatively few as a brand were sold overall, I saw alot of Eagle cars in the 90s and early 00s. Mainly Summits,Talons,and a few Visions.

[@Not-Great-at-Gaming]

My dream car in High School was the Eagle Talon TSi.

[@autochatter]

I really liked the TSI AWD and Eclipse equivalent myself.

[@trailblazer91]

Canada also had the Eagle Vista, based off the previous generation Colt and the 2000 GTX, a rebadged Mitsubishi Galant. If you thought Dodge selling the Monaco alongside the Premier was bad enough, Dodge also sold a rebadged Galant creatively called the Dodge 2000 GTX. The same car with either a Dodge or Eagle emblem

[@autochatter]

Ok cool...I mentioned I thought your version of the Summit Wagon was called a Eagle Vista one. I've heard of a 2000 GTX too. You guys had things like a Pontiac version of a Geo Metro too right? The Firefly?

[@trailblazer91]

@@autochatter We did yes. Also the Pontiac Tempest, a rebadged Corsica, Pontiac Sunburst, a rebadged Spectrum/Gemini, and Pontiac Sunrunner, a rebadged Tracker/Sidekick. We also had the Passport and Asuna brands in place of Geo

[@autochatter]

Weird for them to do that

[@GuyNelson-vd1wu]

Yeah the AMC Eagle what's the first crossover

[@RajaReign78]

My parents friend had an Eagle Talon that was sweet. I wanted to buy it when I got old enough to drive, but unfortunately there was a bad storm in our city and a tree fell on his garage destroying the car. Insurance wouldn’t cover the damage cuz that’s considered an act of god clause.

[@autochatter]

That sucks!

[@raymond_sycamore]

I'm 35, and the brand "Eagle" feels like something out of a Mandela Effect. I know it existed, but I can't ever really say I've seen one.

[@autochatter]

If you noticed, I didn't even bother with annual sales each year and basically totals for each model....Considering alot of Dealerships carried them, it's kinda sad.

[@arieljones4595]

That's understandable. It only existed for 11 years, never sold all that well and has been gone for 26 years. It was a brand without an identity. Look at the disparity in all the cars in this video. What were they trying to be? They didn't know. It seems like Chrysler was throwing shot at the wall to see what would stick.

[@autochatter]

@arieljones4595 It started as a nessesary evil for franchise reasons and fulfilling contract deals from the acquisition. Im sure if they could have just got Jeep, they would have. By the time Eagle died, Chrysler was on the ropes again and Mercedes stepped in. Prob one of the worst car mergers ever.

[@arieljones4595]

@autochatter I should have mentioned that I'm one of the few people who actually bought an Eagle. It was a 1997 Eagle Talon Tsi AWD. The 97s had the styling refresh, it was black and was identical to the one you pictured in the video. I preferred the styling over the Eclipse. It was awesome! But even the dealer didn't know there was a 1998 Talon. They thought 1997 was the end of the line. That's how much anyone cared.

[@autochatter]

@arieljones4595 I thought the Talon changes looked great too! Cool you had one of the last ones!

[@aguerra1381]

I had the pleasure of owning a 1990 and 1992 Eagle Premier. On two occasions, during that time, I had the opportunity to drive a Toyota Camry, and also a Dodge Intrepid. Neither could compare to the Premier. It felt much more substantial a vehicle in every way. A truly understated car. Very reliable also.

[@autochatter]

It was a victim off poor advertising and marketing.

[@aguerra1381]

That reminds me of the Omni-Horizon. MUCH superior to the Ford Escort but Ford did a marketing campaign that was masterful!

[@aguerra1381]

True story. I went into a dealership with a 1991 twin turbo, DOHC, AWD, Eagle Talon and walked out with a 1992 Eagle Premier in like-new condition with 4 new tires and 20,000+ less miles and $2,500 in my pocket! The talon was still on the lot 3 months later. They couldn't get rid of it. I assume it's because the insurance was too high for it.

[@autochatter]

@@aguerra1381 Either that or they appraised your trade in too high and were buried in it.

[@joemazzola7387]

American motors customers were not going to buy a weird French Renault car After buying ramblers

[@autochatter]

Good point!

[@meleepinata]

Wasn't the PRV an absolute boat anchor of a motor?

[@autochatter]

I dont think they have a reputation of being bulletproof LOL, but they were used for a long time.

[@earlscheib7754]

Actually better than early v6 Toyotas that couldn't hold a head gasket

[@autochatter]

@earlscheib7754 Thats true..the Nissan VG engines were alot better then.

[@jamesziegler2763]

Interesting

[@autochatter]

Better than boring, so I will take it!

[@jamesziegler2763]

Interesting

[@colinschmitz8297]

Good video. I was disappointed when eagle failed. By the time they had really good products in the vision and the talon, the division was pretty much already dead. The problem that I think Chrysler had was they didn't have the discipline to utilize the divisions correctly. They were comfortable placing the divisions too close to each other competing for the same customers without leaning enough into performance let alone types of performance for one division versus another division. They also couldn't decide what price point eagle was supposed to compete for. The Premier was supposed to be aimed at making a car to share the garage with a Jeep wagoneer which appealed to some of the wealthiest of people in the country. So instead of a Mercedes, BMW, the Premier was supposed to be the offering on the higher trim. But then they also wanted to compete against the Ford Taurus so they offered the lower trim. Beyond this, all respect due to Premier owners, even at the top trim level The premiere would never be mistaken as a serious Mercedes or BMW competitor. I think for eagle to have worked, they needed to wait until they figured out the formula on how to make a proper import fighter and let the AMC name live on until the contracts were done with Renault until they got their homework done on a clear plan on how to compete, a model that was designed to compete toe to toe with the cars they wanted to compete with. I have wondered if the proper way to do eagle would have been to release the stealth under eagle instead of Dodge with eagle styling and follow it up with the eagle vision but making the vision rear wheel drive with all-wheel drive optional and fitting a V8 in it as an option. Remember that the LH platform was designed that it could be adapted for rear wheel drive And there were apparently test mules with v8s in them. From here, if this worked, develop a whole product line as a more high-end import fighter division and leaving the economy cars and the eclipse clone role for Plymouth only (and a full version like the talon not the content and styling removed version Plymouth was stuck with).

[@autochatter]

All good points and although I didn't mention it, the LH platform was designed to be different drive configurations like AWD with the engine layout. I don't know if Renault made good on that across the pond with sone of their cars.Thanks for giving it a watch and your thoughts in what Chrysler could have done better with Eagle.

[@colinschmitz8297]

@@autochatter thank you. I don't have first hand knowledge about European market on what competes against what In their industry, but I really doubt Renault 25 from which I think the Premier was based off of being an equal to Mercedes or BMW. While the Renault 25 had a far more impressive interior in its defense than what the eagle premier did, powertrain wise, The PRV V6 was no match for any Mercedes or BMWs featuring a V8. Not to mention The typical mistake the domestic manufacturers made of trying to use front-wheel drive to fight against rear wheel drive. Although I do like front wheel drive for its practicality, when aiming for luxury you have to fight toe to toe with whom you're wanting to compete against and you need to offer the same type of powertrain. While I know this didn't exist at the time, the best that the premier could have been would have been a Lexus ES competitor. A good market to be in no doubt If they could get the interior and the reliability up to par, but that is not going to appeal to someone who genuinely wants a rear wheel drive V8 or V12 Mercedes or BMW. They are two very different things and appeal to two different people. Both are important offerings and good offerings especially for that time, but they're not the same plain and simple. That's why Lexus unleashed the LS to compete in that market.

[@autochatter]

@colinschmitz8297 Yes...The Lexus LS was quite the wakeup call to Mercedes. The LS is definitely a future vid for me.AMC thinking the Premier was going to sway traditional high end Euro luxury buyers was a pipedream. Yeah it was based off the Renault 25.

[@RoadRunnergarage8570]

I enjoy Green Hawk's videos as well as yours!!

[@autochatter]

Green Hawks are great aren't they?

[@RoadRunnergarage8570]

@@autochatter they sure are!!

[@RoadRunnergarage8570]

I enjoy Green Hawk's videos as well as yours!?

[@autochatter]

Thank you! Antique Tags also has excellent videos if you haven't seen them yet.

[@RoadRunnergarage8570]

@@autochatter I will have to check him out sometime .

[@autochatter]

@@RoadRunnergarage8570 Tell him Auto Chatter sent you!

[@Kenjis9965]

My dad had a Summit. It was blue and fairly basic with a 5 speed manual. Don't remember which engine he had. He absolutely loved it and had a car phone in it. The car phone was possibly worth more than the summit was

[@autochatter]

Couldn't have been many Summits with a car phone!!😂

[@Kenjis9965]

@@autochatter no probably not lol. And we're talking 91-93 here. The company he worked for paid for the car phone and the install but it seriously probably did cost about as much as the car lmao

[@autochatter]

@Kenjis9965 I didn't get my first cel phone untill 96. In 91 you had one for business or you were $$$$ LOL. I remember waiting untill like 7 PM on a Friday so I could use my nights and weekend package....Otherwise it was like 40 cents a minute.

[@Kenjis9965]

@@autochatter my dads job paid for it lol. He had car phones for quite a while as he had one in the Astro that replaced his Summit. I think they finally switched him to a cell phone in the late 90s I didn't get a cellphone of my own until the 2000s and I remember the nights and weekends issue and having to watch the minutes.

[@autochatter]

@Kenjis9965 I don't think my home town even had cel service in 1991. Lots of people were getting beepers though.

[@anthony_rivera4735]

Eagle: Chryslers version of Merkur and Saturn

[@autochatter]

Pretty much