Early 15th c Cuirass Part 2: The Skirt of Plates

Today we will examine the lower half of the early 15th c English cuirass, the skirt of plates, or 'paunce de alwite.'
Armorer - Jeff Wasson - www.wassonartistry.com
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#medievalarmor #livinghistory #paunceofplates #skirtofplates #fauld

[@Schlachtschule]

When Mac built my breastplate, which also has downward-lapping plates, he said this pattern was intended to "keep out the rain," by which he meant arrows.

[@electronkaleidoscope5860]

I honestly cant get over how good English style armour looks

[@JustGrowingUp84]

Lol woody!

[@ianmiller4195]

I personally like the northern Italian armor better, but this is still equally beautiful.

[@Chironex_Fleckeri]

For me it's Northern Italian aesthetics, but I wonder about the contemporary perception of foreign armor aesthetics.

[@zayaweight9579]

Ikr

[@SultanOfAwesomeness]

Real men wear skirts.

[@fionafiona1146]

Sultan Just hot ones please, I am still trying to sell the Idear to my boyfriend

[@fionafiona1146]

Dragon50275 Tried that, but it will take some getting comfortable with the idea for him to even try.

[@exploatores]

have you tested skirt of plate :)

[@fionafiona1146]

Exploatores not in my budget, I would gladly try if you could provide one tho😉

[@VietnamWarSummarized]

+Sultun hello man, new history channel here, since me and Ian(this guy in the video) have similar audience type you might enjoy my videos, leave a comment it will mean a lot to me

[@jonmakar5646]

Know anyone that's willing to lend you a kastenbrust to talk about? Then we can get REALLY "weird"! That 1430's German style of harness with the kastenbrust breast plate has to be my very favourite (pretty much any of the configurations including a kastenbrust...i.e. rounded grand bascinet, rondelles used on the sides of the bascinet, as besagews, and/or as the wings of couters, super long paunce with central ridge, maille skirt/apron, scale paunce, different styles of kettle hat with oculars, large, floating poleyns, maille shorts that drape over the cuisses under the abdominal protection, gauntlets with extended knuckle plates, the houppelande styled waffenrock showing in various configurations, etc....)!

[@KnyghtErrant]

I've really been warming up to that era of German armors myself. I do know someone who wears elements of that, maybe one day I can borrow a few pieces :)

[@jonmakar5646]

OH GEE GOLLY!!! ♪~ ᕕ(ᐛ)ᕗ

[@emperordraygon]

"When we look at medieval war saddles..." Can't wait for that episode!

[@MoriShep]

As always sir your videos often feel like a college level lecture with out the huge cost point, well done sir

[@extrasmack]

Always the best content! Thanks for all the vids and for the detail you go into in them Ian! 👍

[@toddgreener]

Agreed!

[@rubberdc]

You do look very good in that armour . i love all the explanations and thank you for taking the time to show us.

[@ghostlygardener5644]

I'd love to see some stuff on 16th century armour.

[@seanhornibrook]

You 14th to 15th century guys sure have a complicated existence. Circa 1250 for life!! Seriously though your harness is awesome. Really good work, man.

[@parapotato]

I would love to see a video series on the pros and cons of different pieces of armor such as a Bascinet vs an Armet. Great video and great channel bro.

[@matthewmillar3804]

How about some footage of you and your troupe doing some reenacting-type things? It would be cool to see you in action. Also, extra thumbs up for your wife. Does she reenact too? She seems very understanding of your hobby. :)

[@KnyghtErrant]

I really want to do that, I've just always found it difficult because it's hard to break away and film during those events. It would be like trying to be in a play and film it at the same time :) I will try to get it done though. My wife has participated with our group, but with little kids now it's a bit tougher! My oldest daughter has been fully kitted out at a show before though :)

[@tasatort9778]

I really appreciate the amount of time and effort you put into your research, and the straightforward, no-nonsense way you present it. The first thing I learned about armor from you was how little I knew about armor!

[@ExhumedFromBed]

I love Ian's content, i always thought about the skirt plates on how they function. Now i know.

[@christopheresquire947]

God, I love this channel.

[@Gew219]

As always - great video!

[@DatPett]

Love the new upgrades to the kit, can't wait to see more of it in the future!

[@ariochiv]

Well done as always.

[@macmurfy2jka]

That new harness I coming along nicely

[@OptionalBean]

Love your work, man. Keep it up.

[@KryllKiller]

Great video. A lot of things I've never considered before.

[@Papadragon18]

Goddamnit, Ian. I was supposed to go to bed, and then you finally post this! On a more serious note: A very interesting video about a separate piece of equipment I didn't know existed. Goes to show the ingenuity of the medieval armour smiths, and again how much there is to learn about armour. A query though; is it just how the light falls, or is there a slight incline at the groin, and rise for the thighs on the front of the paunce? If that's the case, is there a particular reason for it, such as ergonomity? It seems like it could potentially direct blows inward if one were unlucky, but perhaps that wouldn't be as big a danger in this case as I'd first imagine.

[@KnyghtErrant]

Hahaha, my goal is to keep people up late on Sunday evenings! :) The lower edge of the front plate is parallel to the ground all the way around. Sometimes after I move around it gets a little sticky and stays up more than it should. As the armor and the leathers break in over time that should go away.

[@TheSaintRage]

Thanks to Shad for mentioning this channel. Real good stuff.

[@wesfiji8548]

Very well presented and informative videos. I just binged all the helmet and armor vids.. 👍 Now to go back and like everything...

[@martialme84]

fantastic channel. Great video as always!

[@ttaibe]

Very good, as always!

[@thanson77]

Classy as always J.

[@Raptorman0205]

13:09 that's a pretty nice traverse there on the right ;)

[@SirSavage01]

LOVE YOUR STUFF!!!!

[@kidicaruz]

Great vid, very informative!!

[@sergarlantyrell7847]

A downwards-lapping skirt also reduces gapping, as the upper lames are smaller, and the internal leathers limiting the separation. Id think this would be much more protective, so long as your mobility isn't significantly impeded. It also looks much better than the upwards-lapping skirts.

[@paulroberts7644]

What a lovely assistant you have! :)

[@russelltimmerman3771]

A really nice vid as always.

[@viridisxiv766]

would make one helluva wedding dress....

[@rchave]

look up "tonlet armour" ;)

[@bmikevictor]

Happy New Year !

[@KnyghtErrant]

Thanks, Happy New Year!

[@heldaneurbanus5135]

I love William Bowes' made up Latin in the quote Ian shows us. Throwing in bits of French or English where no convenient Latin word existed. All for sake of seeming formal and writing in Latin.

[@ericmitchell985]

Jesus Christ you look intimidating in that getup! Somehow, I find it even more terrifying than a whole harness. Great content, as always.

[@jesseswinney9643]

Excellent video. I haven't had much luck finding out how to do faulds. This video helps a lot. Of course my timing is off because I just finished adding sliding rivets to the faulds I am making. But showing how yours was hinged will be very helpful to me. Thanks for the great info!

[@KnyghtErrant]

We see surviving examples of faulds that are articulated with sliding rivets, some with leathers, some a combination of both, so mine is certainly not the _only_ way to do it.

[@blackfin2389]

It's oddly satisfying watching how the plates perfectly overlap and adjust to movement so closely together

[@zaidhernandez4601]

Beautiful

[@thatchannel195]

Nice video.

[@Ubeer85]

I always thumbs up before i watch. The armour looks amazing!

[@aborted666christl8]

Just found your channel, I'm stoked. Great work man.

[@KnyghtErrant]

Thanks, welcome to the channel!

[@aborted666christl8]

No.. Don't believe he exists, but that's just my opinion.

[@aborted666christl8]

Well due to recorded history i believe he was real, as well as crucified so says the gospels. On his resurrection it can go either way, not really sure. As for the old testament or Torah, i believe most of it to be works of fiction, i.e. Adam and Eve, God punishing a Serpent taking away its legs thus making it a more viable predator (compared to most lizards which would be a snake with legs for the most part) which in turn made them a more dominate species, and Noah's ark for examples. Again just my opinion though.

[@aborted666christl8]

Because your a respectful human being, its no problem at all. My problem with organized religion, particularly Christianity (only because it's been exposed to me the most) is on a moral level.. I target Christianity with my name because many educated still believe a story which humans were created just to fail, and failure results in death by burning that lasts forever. A choice that the consequences of being wrong are so harsh should be better explained by a "god" a Omni powerful/present being.. That barley scratches the surface of why i choose such a offensive name even though i do try not to offend most people.

[@aborted666christl8]

I agree with you on the life and death of Jesus, this i don't deny.. I also don't deny his resurrection to be exact, its just that i cant be sure either way. No repression was able to stop Christianity because it never faced much, after Romes adoption of Christianity a couple hundred years after Jesus's death. After the forming of Catholicism in Western Europe, Christianity could begin doing its own repression. Christianity rose to its place because of violence, but due to there being about a billion more believers then the next highest religion (Islam) id wager it was worth it. To be sure of something when the stakes are high and the consequences are greater is important so if you are sure then i commend you, for its not an easy task.

[@Mythicalmage]

It fascinates me how much this differs from Mecha (Gundam) skirts. Really interesting.

[@joachimmurat400]

Its christmas my dear skull!!!

[@donmaximus526]

Good video, verry helpfull. ☺👍

[@docmike8601]

stopped by after watching you on the metron channel, awesome videos here too. Extremely informative and interesting

[@KnyghtErrant]

Thanks for checking out the channel!

[@TheAssassin409]

weird. by chance ive been hearing the name jeff wasson a lot these past few days just perusing different forums, pinterest, youtube. i had no idea he was the guy who made the A30 recreation that i love. His work looks beautiful. his website doesnt say where hes based out of, but if hes in NY then i think i might know who to go to in a few years time when i get my own harness.

[@Gew219]

Ian, I wish you had made a video about Savoyard helmets and 17th century harnesses in general.

[@klyanadkmorr]

WTF he states he deals with and is an amateur researching hobbyist in 13-1500 armor. Go a find your nitpick research info yourself or make your own video.

[@macbethmeyer1592]

@@klyanadkmorr edgy

[@klyanadkmorr]

@@macbethmeyer1592 heh, I appreciate vid channels and series that do things out of love mostly for free maybe recent started a Patreon. OP guy Posting a specific criticizing request when if they really were a watching follower fan SHOULD KNOW what Ian blogs posts about than demand something he doesn't. I know Ian can defend himself but sometimes I just UGH at comments.

[@macbethmeyer1592]

@@klyanadkmorr yeah Anyways italian armor for life

[@anthonypantano2627]

beautiful kit \m/\m/

[@playbook008]

Have you done Conquistador armor, during the period of the reconquest of Spain?

[@sergiodemartinez1415]

Nice piece of armour! AA++

[@racpa5]

Subscribed due to Metatron’s recommendation.

[@jorgehanel8837]

I would like to learn more about the Burgonet helm, is there some good source on it?

[@koosh138]

this might be an odd question but: bleaching the gambeson under the armor? Would you just leave the sweat stains and/or natural coloring of the material, maybe just the rich had their gambesons cleaned often, or etc?

[@nydabeats]

Random question: If lets say an English Knight was traveling in France or Spain would his Kighthood be respected by the peasants and nobility? or is your Knightly status only valid in your home country?

[@KnyghtErrant]

Dubbed knights are already members of the upper class, generally coming from at least the lesser nobility (or the gentry in England) so I would expect those titles to be recognized across borders by their peers. If carrying out diplomatic duties, that title and rank is very important. Prisoners in the late Medieval were supposed to be treated in a way commensurate with their rank, so theoretically they have to respect that rank in order to comply. When high ranking individuals and peers etc., were captured they should expect conditions they were used to as gentry or nobility before ultimately being ransomed, so being a POW for an upper class or dubbed knight should not be like an extended stay in the Hanoi Hilton.

[@whowantsabighug]

It'd be nice to see a direct comparison between the armours of different countries, how different would Castilian be from Norwegian, Imperial from Scottish etc.

[@natecompton172]

Do you plan on doing a video about the besagews? I think it would be an interesting video about a less common piece of armor.

[@KnyghtErrant]

Yes, they will get a dedicated video in the future.

[@rchave]

I'd be interested to see some explanation on those "back besagews" which go over the backplate plate and seem to avoid covering the gap you'd expect them to cover.

[@Ungulates]

13:09 Does that gab between your back plate and sleeve worry you?

[@KnyghtErrant]

It only happens at the absolute limit of motion, a position I don't think I've ever found myself in outside of this video. But I may extend the mail sleeve a bit to cover that.

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

If you have to fight one man directly in front of you they twist to fight a man directly behind you, probably best you beg to be ransom. If you surrounded like that, you would probably die, not matter how good armor you are wearing, if you enemy thinks you aren't worth capturing.

[@gsm1091]

Are there examples of saloon-door paunces with upward lapping?

[@vedymin1]

Great vid, btw. In the twisting section of the video your gambeson is showing from underneath your voiders, it might not be a realistic problem in any way but i thought i would mention it :)

[@KnyghtErrant]

Yes, I saw that too. It only happens at the absolute extreme of motion so I'm not too worried, but I may extend the mail a little bit in the future.

[@jancz357]

when you did the 180 turn, your left scapula was unprotected, will you make your mail protection longer (wider) on the back?

[@KnyghtErrant]

One day, yes. I'm not too worried about it at present because that doesn't happen in most normal movement.

[@jancz357]

ok, I just noticed it and needed to point it out :D

[@lenorevanalstine1219]

another stap between the top one and the next one down may work too to keep it from pulling away that far

[@tommeakin1732]

Is part of the upward/downward lapping difference possibly due different fighting styles? If you were fighting on foot more (like English knights liked to do), you'd be more likely to be hit from above on that part of your body, whereas if you were on horseback, you'd be more likely to be hit from below; so you might favour downwards if fighting on foot, and upwards if on horseback

[@tommeakin1732]

Lol he literally goes on to say all of that. I should have watched further

[@pitmezzari2873]

Makes sense when fighting on foot like English knights preferred to do.

[@robertbogan225]

What if you combined the 2 styles one set of plates going down till the pelvis then swtiching to upward facing plates that open and cover to mid thigh or knee.

[@nouri388]

I have a question I want to start with making armor especially late 15 and 16 century armor do you know any good books in English Dutch or German about armor and how it works

[@JohnSmith-nd8nr]

Id totally wear that to the grocery store....only that

[@dramian2]

When do we get to see the whole harness put together?

[@dramian2]

I am aware that Mr. Laspina has multiple videos of him putting on the old form of the harness. However, he has since changed breastplate configurations (swapping a full mail shirt and breastplate for a fully enclosed cuirass and mail sleeves), changed his fauld for this new paunce of plates, and changed the shoulder protections for a more historically accurate version. While the detailed info on each individual part is cool, some things can only really be seen when in their proper context. I would like to see photos of the new configuration all put together to give it that context.

[@ianmiller4195]

At least after his mail skirt is done

[@difabricius]

merry skullmas

[@duchessskye4072]

At 6:50 I noticed that the leftmost picture depicts a knight with a shield attached to the pauldron. Does this provide any advantage, and was it even used historically?

[@KnyghtErrant]

It's not attached to his pauldron. They are usually referred to as an 'ecranche' and it's just strapped around the neck and under the opposing arm. They are used on horseback to absorb lance impacts, especially in jousting. Here is an early 15th century survival housed at the Met - www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/23353

[@duchessskye4072]

Oh, so that's what it is. Makes sense

[@CarnelianUK]

I noticed when you were twisting your hips at the end, there was a little gap between the mail sleeve and the edge of your armour's back-plates. Is that a flaw in the design or would that spot be covered if you were wearing the full suit?

[@KnyghtErrant]

That gap only appears at the absolute limits of motion. If I wanted to fix it, I would extend the mail a little bit in that area. One day I may actually connect the sleeves with a strip of mail across the back which would also prevent that from happening. Good catch though!

[@elgostine]

yeah i notied that and was curious as well

[@kanrakucheese]

How much weight does the newer version of your armor with backplate and plate skirt save by allowing you to reduce the mail to just sleeves?

[@KnyghtErrant]

I've never bothered to weigh it, but I suspect everything is actually heavier now. When I switched to sleeves and a skirt, I also switched to 6mm mail instead of 9mm mail, which is much heavier per unit surface area than the bigger ringed stuff.

[@whatever41421]

I'm curious, when I see you describe all your cuirass, you have the upper part ending at the natural waist with a seperated lower half to allow for movement, but when I look at replicas for later period stuff for instance peascod style cuirasses, they seem to be one solid piece, did these end higher on the body, does their shape allow for more movement or are these just incorrect modern reproductions I'm seeing?

[@KnyghtErrant]

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you're asking, but peascod style breastplates dip down in the front to form that fashionable peak (mimicking contemporary fashion in civilian doublets) but the sides of a peascod are still cut in sharply at the natural waist for proper weight bearing, and function etc.. As far as the two distinct pieces, the idea of a separate skirt of plates is common in England and was used in some other locations, but most other locations had a fauld attached directly to the breastplate or plackart and then a culet (the back half) attached directly to a backplate or lower backplate. The waistline would still be in the same place, and the fauld can still collapse, but they would be buckled to each other at the sides, rather than having two separate assemblies like you see on English armors (like my example).

[@ianmiller4195]

At 13:30 the left mail sleeve is comming out of the backplate you are going to need to attach the sleeves to the doublet a little better

[@KnyghtErrant]

Mail sleeves of this style are worn separately, the fix is to add more mail, which will get done eventually. Some historical examples have a strip of mail attaching to the two sleeves right at that spot.

[@noelebbert9322]

Seems as though limiting motion with well crafted armor would prove useful in mounted combat

[@nathancole6678]

Great video! I notice your breast plate does not meet the back plate at the shoulders. What is the reason/advantage for that? is this style usually or always worn with spaulders?

[@KnyghtErrant]

Breastplates and backplates generally _don't_ meet over the top of the shoulders, it's generally just the strap actually crossing the very top. Normally that area is either overlapped by the pauldrons in configurations of armor that use them or protected by mail. In my particular configuration of armor my arm harness and spaulders will protect the points of the shoulders but close to the neck it is just protected by mail and then an additional layer of mail and padding in the form of the helmet's aventail.

[@nathancole6678]

Thanks for the answer. I guess I am used to seeing reproductions that touch on the shoulders, but maybe they are mostly wrong.

[@davidschlageter5962]

How does that work when you are in the saddle? When I ride deep there is still generally a wide girth to wrap the legs around. Would there be one that is wider made for being in a saddle, or would it be omitted for mounted action? Seems like it would not be as necessary when you are on a horse?

[@KnyghtErrant]

6:03

[@davidschlageter5962]

Yes I watched it an saw how it folds up in the back in a normal seating position, but when you have your legs around the horse they are going to flare outwards. On a larger horse with draft in him that girth will be pretty wide. If it collapses in the front and back then what's the benefit and it seems like it would be more encumbering if the cantle is high and tight to keep you in the saddle. Have you tried it mounted? I have an old book from when I would young that seems to show them really flared out, almost absurdly so, I always wondered how they worked. The horse is essentially going to be connected to your pelvis logically the skirt would be scooped out it the from and back so it wouldn't ride up. If it follows the standing form then it would restrict how wide you could sit on a horse. Possibly these are typically English because they are more for an armored footman than a knight who predominantly was mounted?

[@KnyghtErrant]

The vast majority of the skirt is above the point of my hips. When I spread my legs to simulate sitting on a horse it permits enough collapse to clear the crease of my hips. I don't foresee it being a problem, but no I have not tried it mounted. I wish I had gotten Jeff to take a picture in the saddle before he shipped it to me. That being said, by all accounts the armor is most definitely optimized for foot combat. It will not perform like more optimally designed cavalry armors, but I don't think it was ever intended to do so. I believe it was more at home in large infantry formations of dismounted men-at-arms flanked by archers.

[@davidschlageter5962]

Ok that makes sense, Thanks! :)

[@godofimagination]

I noticed that the top buckle of the ponce had a roller on it. Is that historical, or a repair?

[@jacekpietras3638]

two types of rollers in image, in historical finds we have plenty of them i.imgur.com/y53vlua.jpg

[@KnyghtErrant]

Like Jacek said, the roller is historical, there's a roller on both the top buckle of the paunce and the bottom buckle of the backplates. They're on those two in particular because you need those two straps to be really tight and the roller aids in leveraging the strap.

[@williambenedictalava2634]

it is still be possible to wear the cuirass without mails underneath it? what will be the cons on it?

[@KnyghtErrant]

It's physically possible, yes. It would still wear just fine. It would just be out of the ordinary to omit the mail as it's part of the overall armor. The gaps in plate coverage are the primary targets for a person trying to defeat an armored opponent, and if you omit the mail, those gaps become protected only by the underlying arming cote. By this point in time, under a relatively complete plate armor, that garment is probably not very thick, especially in joints where you need to be able to move, so having that layer of mail is an important part of the whole armored system.

[@brungrisatre5968]

At about 1:00, is that supposed to be Heracles?

[@superuser3969]

Would you make a video about Roman armor?

[@klyanadkmorr]

No he doesn't specialise in that states it EVERYWHERE what his posts and blogs are about, Go find the youtubers that do Roman shit or research on your own than begging someone just posting THEIR HOBBY findings learning to do your lazy bidding.

[@superuser3969]

I can't decide are you an imbecile or just some 13yo kid. Anyway, talking trash to some random people over the internet doesn't make you look tough, it only makes you look stupid.

[@davidbriggs264]

Super User: You are the imbecile if you ask Ian to cover Roman Armor since the Roman's had been LONG gone by the period of time that Ian specializes in, which is the Middle Ages, and especially the late (1300-1500) Middle Ages. If you want Roman Armor either do the research yourself, or find a different KZbin Contributor who DOES specialize in Roman Armor.

[@ianmiller4195]

Metatron has quite a few videos related to roman armor

[@AmazingJMS]

Podrias poner bibliografia de las imagenes?

[@shizukaryujoukai2465]

So who is your armourer and would it be possible to have a suit made for me

[@LurkerDaBerzerker]

Hey Ian, I hope this doesn't come off as rude but, do you think you could check out Exanima? I thought it might be enjoyable for you once you get the hang of it, plus I thought you would be a reliable source to review the models and such of the armour they have in the game.

[@KnyghtErrant]

I actually have it. Checking steam, I only have about 9 hrs in it, and that's mostly messing around in the arena mode. I may need to give it a go again, it's been almost a year since I played.

[@LurkerDaBerzerker]

Noice, I hoped you could look into certain things like how fingered plate gauntlets provide way more impact protection than they should. (Though that could just be game design elements at play). Oh and last thing before I leave you alone, have you ever seen any evidence of these being a thing? here : armstreet.com/store/armor/rondelle-plates-knight-of-fortune

[@KnyghtErrant]

Finger shields, to the best of my knowledge, are a modern re-enactor thing.

[@LurkerDaBerzerker]

Thanks for letting me know, that's a shame seems like a fairly good idea and does not seem too difficult to make, or to take up much material. Makes me wonder why such a thing was not developed, or maybe there is a problem I'm not considering? (Or maybe someone simply decided to get clam-shell or mitten style gauntlets)

[@IanCowen]

Who made the rondel dagger? Its quite nice looking

[@KnyghtErrant]

That rondel dagger was made by Arms and Armor - arms-n-armor.com/

[@IanCowen]

Knyght Errant Awesome, was the sheath acquired separately?

[@KnyghtErrant]

A friend and I made that particular sheath ourselves. It originally came with a very basic black leather sheath I think, but not something suitable for living history.

[@IanCowen]

Knyght Errant Yup, I saw the included sheath on the website and thought it looked fairly subpar for the dagger it was paired with. Nice job with your sheath then!

[@KnyghtErrant]

Thanks!

[@lordsllim8053]

So Ian would you say this is the typical style adopted by the English at Agincourt?

[@KnyghtErrant]

The upper cuirass comes in a few different varieties, saloon door closure being only one (segmented backplates and solid backplates depending were also in use at certain times and overlap with one another), but the general configuration of a separate upper cuirass and separate paunce of plates seems to be one of the typical features of English harness at this time.

[@lordsllim8053]

@@KnyghtErrant i hear a lot we English prefered white harness/ highly polished. If so did they during this period wear over their harnesses tight fitting surcoats with their arms on or not?

[@KnyghtErrant]

At the beginning of the 15th century most knightly effigies retain their surcoats. By the time of Agincourt they seem to be less universal but still appear with frequency.

[@olavc.oevele1902]

Dear Mr. LaSpina, where is the picture at 1:05-1:10 taken from? Can this picture be taken as a proof of blackened armour in the early 15th c?

[@KnyghtErrant]

That's from BGE Ms. fr. 77 Histoire Romaine, c.1400-1420. It's a _History of Rome_ . www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/bge/fr0077/285v/0/Sequence-103 No, darkened depictions of armor in manuscripts are not proof of much of anything if not compared to other sources to corroborate what it is we're seeing. A dark depiction of armor in an illumination ≠ blackened steel armor as a foregone conclusion. It is a possibility, but it can be explained by a host of well documented treatments for an armor's finish to include covering with fabric, covering with leather, painting, bluing, tooled and dyed leather, a 'rough from the hammer' finish etc., these should not be ignored. This is further complicated by the medium itself; in this case illustration. Treating illustrations as a monolithic type of source material is problematic. Each illustration needs to be treated individually. The possible problems are tarnished silver leaf, the need of the artist to differentiate certain characters, various other artistic conventions that we may not be privy to, the limited color palette of the illuminator to represent real finishes or whether or not the illuminator even cares if the result is realistic at all. The subject of each illustration matters and influences all of those other factors. Is it a history? A bible? A romance? Mythology?

[@olavc.oevele1902]

Thank you for the link! And also for the in depth explanation. The backround of my question was that I'm into miniature painting and after (more or less) mastering the polished steel look I'd like to have some variation. Blackened, painted or covered plate would be great for that reason but I'd feel rather uncomfortable to leave the frame of historical plausibility. So if you are on the lookout for a new topic for a video, I would be glad if you could consider "Colourful plate armour" as an option. Ahoi!

[@lacka90]

Why wearing mail beneath the plates? seem like overkill in protection and makes it all very heavy. Very nice video i think you are the best in describing how medieval armour works!

[@KnyghtErrant]

Mail was worn as a complement to plate for the duration of its existence, mostly as a way to ensure any gap left by the plate, or any particularly vulnerable location was well defended. A pair of mail sleeves like I'm wearing was a common way that was done. It ensures complete protection of the armpits and insides of the elbows, but avoids too much unnecessary redundancy in the torso and abdomen. Voiders were another to accomplish a similar goal.

[@lacka90]

@@KnyghtErrant thank you!

[@spacemanapeinc7202]

Is the paunce of plates strictly a 15th century item? A lot of times I see English Effigies that are from 1370-1400 with a surcoat covering the Torso armour, but it’s hard to tell if there’s plate armour protecting the lower abdomen, as it’s not as obvious as the Breast Plate (Flat and Globose). This isn’t helped by the fact that many re-enactors who portray knights from 1370-1400 just have a breast plate and a mail skirt as there torso armour.

[@KnyghtErrant]

They don't appear in written sources until the c15th, and as you've mentioned visual sources are often covered up so it's very difficult to tell. Uncovered armors don't really become fashionable until the c15th so then it's a bit easier to see them in plain view around 1410. Going back to 1370-1400, A developed globose coat-of-plates would give the appropriate silhouette that you see in those effigies and those _do_ appear all over English inventories of the same time, so they are the most likely candidate for those armors. Solid breastplates without backplates, but perhaps an attached front fauld also appear in artowrk in that 1370-1400 timeline, but a true cuirass with fully encompassing paunce of plates is difficult to pin down with the current evidence prior to the c15th. This is also tied to backplates, as the backplate helps support the whole structure, and again, those are very difficult to pin down prior to the c15th in anything but the segmented forms associated with the aforementioned globose coats-of-plates.

[@PieterBreda]

Mobility is amazing. No getting fat by the way.

[@KnyghtErrant]

Thanks. Haha, yes... investing in armor is pretty good motivation to stay trim.

[@abubakrabdelkareem4652]

Looks similar to the paunce of plates used on German armour of the early 15th century... Namely the Kastenbrust armour...

[@KnyghtErrant]

Similar, yes. Sometimes we also see 'aprons' of plates associated with kastenbrust style armors as well. Early 15thc German armors are a very interesting subject.

[@ChrissieBear]

This configuration is common in Japanese depictions of medieval and fantasy knights. I wonder why.

[@TheSeanoops]

My like was number 420, just wanted to point that out.

[@arjandenbesten6786]

What are those weird ear-beseques? at 5.21 kzbin.info/www/bejne/rp63l4Nqd8qDaasm21s Is it a cheap version of an attempt to up armour and not so adequate helmet? in what context does that helmet turn up? from what ive seen it is at battle and at campaign so then it must have been liked enough by them to trust there life too. That open faced helmet design is in my opinion a liability but then again also open faced sallets were used around the same time..

[@MadNumForce]

At first I was very disturbed when I realized that what sounded like "pants" was actually "paunce", cause "paunce" clearly comes from the French "panse", which really means guts or stomach, and it's weird to refer to the skirt as a piece protecting the "panse"/guts. Especially since in French, the "pansière" is what in English you call "placard", though in period texts it seems it was written "pancière", "pancère", "panchière", even "panchire", and according to one source, it was used to describe armor pieces as well as parts of fortification, in which context it was a synonym of... "parapet", i.e. para-pect (think of pectoral muscles), which protects the upper body, aka breast... gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5828566f/f284.image.r=%22panciere%22 Another source, quoting period texts, this time with references, and there is few doubt that in these contexts, "panchière"/"panciere" means cuirass or breastplate in general, sometimes as a metonymy for armor: gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6207738q/f730.image.r=%22panchiere%22 Medieval vocabulary is extremely confusing. I'm not absolutely certain that "paunce" in each text really describes what the video is about.

[@KnyghtErrant]

The skirt _is_ protecting the guts and the stomach. The same piece of armor in Italian is the panciera, and sometimes the panzer in German.

[@MadNumForce]

Ian, do you read French? Cause I'm not talking about modern typology, I'm talking about period texts and their interpretation, and in the links are provided such texts, and in some it's pretty clear that "panchiere" and such means cuirass (in one of the texts, though from a later period, a tent falls on a knight while he hasn't finished passing his arms in his panchiere - that can't be any clearer and univocal). After closer examination, in the first text you quote, the will of the Duke of York, the text is truncated, and there isn't enough context (actually there isn't even a complete sentence with a conjugated verb). But in the second text, about the "paunce of plate, which on the self is behind shut and close, and thereon all-around was an "edging" of small mail", the very fact that it has a mail edging makes it more likely, I believe, to be a skirt, at least I don't know of a sort of cuirass with mail edging, but maybe you will correct me on that. In the third text, "lorica" seems likely to be the way the scribe translated "breastplate", so it's sensible to guess by elimination that the paunce is the skirt. But since in French, "panciere" etc was significantly more varied in meaning, and since the English nobility wasn't that endogamic and culturally/linguistically isolated, you might find texts in which "paunce" is used in the French fashion, and the first one might be one of them. It's obvious that Panzer in German is much more than just the skirt, and just as in French, it became a metonymy for the whole armor, and then the proper word for the armor and everything armored. It seems in Italian "panciera" is used like "pancière" in French, to describe what in English is called "placard". You can even read from this much later text (1677), that "panciera" is given as a synonym of "torace" (thorax) or "armatura del petto" (armor for the upper body - still with the etymological/semantical link mentioned earlier in regard to "parapet"), and its translation in French is "breast armor" ("plastron" has no satisfying translation beside "breast armor"): books.google.fr/books?id=ST0UAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA880&lpg=PA880&dq=panciera+armatura&source=bl&ots=KE5l77JlAv&sig=EfRndW0I7yb-7bAKN8X_Pj0WpYA&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEvIGe7ZPYAhXO6qQKHRTZAK8Q6AEIUjAK#v=onepage&q=panciera%20armatura&f=false English could have been the exception, and paunce could have stricly meant the skirt. But it may also not, and it's just what I'm saying. This is not a point about its name in modern English typology/nomenclature, but a linguistical point.

[@FlinnGaidin]

1:00 Where is this image from...? That text looks to be Hebrew...I'd love to see the whole thing, and figure out what it has to do with the picture below. Also at 13:10, you have a spot that's not covered by mail or plate, only your padding.

[@KnyghtErrant]

Yes, it is in Hebrew. It's a Jewish prayer book from late 14th c Italy. BL Additional 26968 folio 253r - www.bl.uk/catalogues/illuminatedmanuscripts/record.asp?MSID=19249&CollID=27&NStart=26968

[@FlinnGaidin]

Thanks for the link, Ian. That's really cool. They don't tend to have illustrations in them these days, lol, but the words could be right out of a modern siddur (prayer book). Though I still can't figure out why the artist drew a knight in it.

[@daaaah_whoosh]

That kind of segmentation seems to consistently show up on the skirt and shoulders, it makes me wonder why I've never seen a breastplate with that many plates. I guess it probably just wasn't worth it? But then that makes me wonder why brigandine existed.

[@miskakopperoinen8408]

Brigandine doesn't require as large, homogenous steel plates which makes it available earlier than plate cuirass, and the assembly process requires generally less specialized knowledge and experience than plate armor does. Besides, there was a type of laminar plate armour called anima armor. It was a fairly late and rare armor type mostly seen in Italy.

[@themightycaolf6549]

I need an answer here. So there's this armour I've seen, it's faulds looks alot like the Kasten-brust's (very wide, and long almost like a bell) except they're rounder, and if you look up the Steel armour, or Bronze armour from the game Dragon's Dogma you should see it. What is this armour called, and where can I find reference material of it?

[@carterhickenlooper8784]

Check out tonlet armour, like one for Henery VIII. Barring that maybe shearch myarmoury.com or armourarchive.org with that term and see if anyone else has mentioned similar styles to it. goll has a large pdf phd final with thousands of thousands of historical armour pictures.

[@vedymin1]

Why the english preferred to fight on foot ?

[@writingworks]

do you spar in your armor ever?

[@jakevonatlas2754]

writingworks It would really be awesome to see him spar in the armor.

[@writingworks]

yeah it would i think iv seen him with some sort of polearm