Early Analysis: Midair Collision at North Las Vegas

ASI Senior Vice President, Richard McSpadden, CFII, MEI, SES, MES, former Commander/Flight Leader for the USAF Thunderbirds, provides early analysis of an accident on July 17th 2022 when two aircraft collided at North Las Vegas Airport (KVGT). Four people perished in the incident.
In this early analysis, the AOPA Air Safety Institute makes a preliminary assessment of the accident, addressing notable portions of the tragic flight and highlighting areas the NTSB will likely investigate to determine a probable cause.

[@AirSafetyInstitute]

UPDATE: The National Transportation Safety Board has released its preliminary report (ERA22FA318) regarding the investigation into the mid-air between a Piper PA-46-350P (N97CX) and a Cessna 172N (N160RA) At the North Las Vegas airport, NV. data.ntsb.gov/carol-repgen/api/Aviation/ReportMain/GenerateNewestReport/105496/pdf

[@Jake-ll1hl]

Rest In Peace Tony. You were my first instructor and taught me how to fly from the ground up in private, how to instrument fly, and how to hone those skills further in the commercial phase. Thank you for your patience with me during that time. You gave it your all as an instructor and as a teacher. God speed.

[@jonsanchez55]

Sorry for your loss.

[@elisemccord5308]

Tony was one of my closest friends... i showed this comment to his wife.. it meant a lot to her and me. 💕

[@AirSafetyInstitute]

Blue skies and tailwinds.

[@alvon911]

My condolences

[@dannyamaya4829]

RIP Zach

[@vjmickelson1]

I did my flight training at KCHD, which has parallel offset runways. I did this exact thing twice as a pre-solo student. On both occasions I was making right traffic (T&G) for 22R. But I saw 22L first, because it is the first one you see as you're making the base to final turn, so I started to line up on the wrong runway. On both occasions, my instructor quickly identified the issue and had me correct it. I think about this every single time I'm coming into land now. All it takes is a small distraction, and this can happen quickly and easily. In this case, the consequences are horribly tragic. RIP to the four that lost their lives.

[@wilson6576]

Almost every airport in the valley has parallels. Im honestly surprised it hasn’t happened a lot more, I trained at KIWA and there were some close calls with overshooting base to final turns but never anything more thankfully

[@mysock351C]

I was thinking the exact same thing. 30R is the first one that visually comes into view. On top of that, if the pilot had been there before, and had 30R be the more common approach, it could have been subconscious habit to line up with that runway instead. While not a pilot, from my years of professional drivers training, its amazing how much your perception and subconscious biases can influence your decisions, even so far as to make you think you are doing the right thing even when the opposite is transpiring.

[@Dwightstjohn-fo8ki]

@@mysock351C I have over two million miles of driving, too, half in condensed downtown city conditions in two countries. My dad, a lifelong mechanic and long haul driver, told me when I was getting my license that I WOULD have a close call, and that this "incident" would SMARTEN me up. He was right. But in flying, you don't get a second chance along the same lines. Watching these flight videos heightens my driving awareness.

[@vadermike7772]

It sounds like atc noticed she was lining up on the wrong runway. Why didn't ATM advise them of the other aircraft in close proximity, and ask them if they have traffic in sight?

[@B3Band]

Why not just give them different numbers? It's crazy to me that two different runways would have the same number.

[@coldlakealta4043]

What a calm, professional presentation of known fact. Extremely impressive. Thank you.

[@AirSafetyInstitute]

Thank you for watching!

[@rd4660]

And I appreciate your measured speech pattern. It gives our brains time to digest the meaning of your words.

[@sailaab]

Gary, I am not from the English speaking world, nor too keyed in on local phrases of North America.. But even if it is a slang, what you wrote .. seems disrespectful. . He is indeed an inspirational orator. And we all are appreciative of that. . If you are not, you could instead choose to be quiet.

[@eylandaviation5561]

Such a nice contrast to the other KZbin dirt merchants out there (and not just Gryder)

[@mikeholbrook1]

Agreed. I appreciate the balanced, non judgmental approach to the analysis. Giving both pilots the benefit of the doubt and focusing on what we all can learn.

[@arpeltier]

Tragic. Definitely makes me think about being even more cautious when you have offset runways. Condolences to all their families.

[@sethtenrec]

@Buckwheat Hikes lol, good point

[@williampotter2098]

@Buckwheat Hikes Why do you think it was an Air Traffic Controller? That would be very unusual. I assumed it was another aircraft in the area. Maybe even the Cessna. I don't remember hearing Tower ever making a personal comment to an aircraft in the air. Maybe on the ground, but not in such a critical phase of flight. I'm betting it won't be a Tower controller. They'll find out though.

[@jeffreymcneal1507]

@Buckwheat Hikes Ouch.

[@af7439]

I'm a fresh CFI with about 500TT, I'll definitely be teaching belly checks to my students from now on. Good content as always

[@freakfly23]

I work an airport with parallel runways. I always give the traffic when aircraft will be on final together. It's a mandatory traffic call in my opinion. I can't stop them from coming together, but they are going to know about each other.

[@coldlakealta4043]

That professionalism on your part might well have avoided this tragedy. My respects.

[@gringoloco8576]

Are they on separate freqs at Las Vegas on those 2 parallels runways? I don't understand why the controller doesn't stagger the approaches better. That's all it would take. Extend the downwind for the Cessna (maybe not possible due to bravo?).

[@trueblueflying]

I 100 percent agree, I often receive that traffic advisory at KVGT also. “Traffic on the parallel is Malibu “

[@williampotter2098]

freakfly23 That is a very good point. I fly into John Wayne a lot. Many jets to the right and many small aircraft in the left pattern to the left. Tower is very good about cautioning for traffic on the left. (But not movie stars on final to the taxi-way).

[@williampotter2098]

@@gringoloco8576 The clearance given is common everywhere with parallel runways. Pilots have a responsibility to fly as cleared.

[@jonsanchez55]

I learned to fly out of this airport. So sad. I will be forever grateful that my instructor was so strict about situational awareness. RIP to those involved, and best thoughts to their families.

[@Shaswatdce]

Richard is extremely professional and a great presenter. I love the way logic flows in your explanations. Great work for the community! :)

[@richardmcspadden9189]

Very kind, thank you. We have a lot of background and expertise here at AOPA that we pull from to make these.

[@mbryson2899]

Calm, rational, knowledgeable and informative. Your video has all the items I look for and appreciate

[@frmphxaz84]

In addition to high-wing low and low-wing high, both planes' last spot on the tracking show the Malibu nearly double the 172's speed. It makes me wonder if it came in from far enough behind that the 172 could have had a hard time spotting it on the turn to final.

[@Juhujalp]

Also the Malibu did not fly a predictable pattern. Having just recently gotten a checkout in a C172 I'd not even give myself a 1% chance of having spotted that Malibu coming from behind, high and not being where I expected it to be.

[@autom7134]

Thanks for posting and the great early analysis.

[@dogwoodservicesinc.2972]

Rest In Peace Tony. I was gobsmacked when I learned it was you. Lots of lessons both here in the video as well as what I hope all of us will remember about the brevity of life for us all. Sitting here back east thinking of you. I’ve also been thinking about their being two pilots in the other plane- and wondering why, since they obviously knew the field, why both of them missed clear instructions from the tower. This accident has hit me hard at several levels. RIP all.

[@the4flatgarage]

Commiserating replaced awareness. Plain and simple.

[@mxcollin95]

This is the first I’ve heard of this crash. Great reminder on doing the belly checks, especially in parallel runway operations. Were there any survivors?

[@AirSafetyInstitute]

Unfortunately, there were no survivors.

[@lawrencecarlson2425]

I’m from Coeur D Alene and have seen the Malibu in the traffic pattern often. One point that wasn’t mentioned here is the habit of making rounded pattern turns. Flight data presented here appears to show one single turn from downwind to final by the Piper.

[@ToddJustman]

This is a great point. Maybe the advantage of entering the pattern and making nice neat 90 degree turns is that it’s predictable for others and it gives you the time and discipline to make sure you’re doing everything properly.

[@iamtheeone1]

There is also Class Bravo 1.25nm to the south and the Piper pilot may have wanted to avoid that by making the rounded pattern turn.

[@scotabot7826]

Very, Very legitimate point!!! Was the Piper approved for this nonstandard approach? I don't know. Some towered airports will not allow anything other than standard patterns without prior approval.

[@redwatch1100]

There's a reason the FAA strongly suggests using the standard traffic pattern.

[@thomaslemay8817]

By flying a proper pattern to landing aliwes all the other pilots know where to look to see traffic. It also gives more time to notice a problem developing.

[@AnthonySkubic]

Really sad accident. Thank you for the presentation.

[@generalrendar7290]

This is why I built my own adsb reciever when I was a flight instructor. Fly defensively, never assume that the other pilot knows what they are doing. I almost had a collision with a 182 sky lane who not only reported his position incorrectly as upwind after I had already taken off, but was actually on an extended crosswind heading right towards me and my student. That was a very intense minute of visual scanning and ads-b usage to avoid that collision and I had to delay my climb in a wooded area and tell the sky lane twice to change course and enter the pattern over mid field.

[@jnick1909]

How did you build your own ADS-B?

[@generalrendar7290]

@@jnick1909 I built a raspberry pi reciever that Bluetooth connected to my IPad.

[@SoloRenegade]

I've had pilots blatantly ignore ALL radio communications, bust towered airspace, fly through 2 patterns of traffic (parallel runways with at least 4 aircraft in each pattern already) and land, without ATC permission. I've watched guys all line up to land one after the other at an echo airport, doing the right things, and one bozo decides he's landing with a tailwind Against the flow of traffic head-on into everyone else, refusing to talk to anyone on the radio (but he's talking). too many pilots have No clue, they don't follow right of way rules, they aren't paying attention, etc.

[@dethray1000]

@@SoloRenegade doctor pilots,worst there is....

[@SoloRenegade]

@@dethray1000 anyone with too much money but too little experience. They buy cool fast airplanes, think everyone needs to yield to them, but they have no actual piloting skills or knowledge, just a basic private pilot who thinks they are the best there is, not realizing how little they actually know.

[@hughboyle]

Well done analysis. Tough scenario with bias being a possible contributor and a complacency from repetition a factor as well.

[@stephenthompson3418]

Excellent analysis. This channel is great.

[@AirSafetyInstitute]

Much appreciated!

[@williamcleveland7111]

Excellent analysis and recommendations!

[@CameTo]

These accidents repeat themselves often enough, that I'm surprised tower will turn 2 aircraft into final from opposite directions down parallel runways. It requires both pilots to not overshoot centre line, and/or have visual contact with each other. To stagger the turn into final so they're offset by a minute or so makes sense to me.

[@pulaski1]

Everybody's in a hurry, everyone thinks they should go first, nobody has the patience to wait even a minute, .... and some airports are just too crowded. So these accidents will keep happening.

[@airgliderz]

Pure pilot error

[@Arch_Anemone]

Can't speak to the controller's actions in this specific instance, but based on the timing I suspect the C172 was already on base to final and the controller expected the Malibu to fly a more standard pattern, which would've staggered them adequately to avoid any overshoot conflict. Perhaps they could've instructed the Malibu to enter the downwind and withheld a landing clearance, but that's a fair bit of hindsight bias, especially when the controller has probably seen hundreds or thousands of simultaneous ops on the parallels not be an issue and didn't want to unduly withhold a clearance. I can say with certainty that the FAA has put a heavy emphasis on wrong surface landing reporting and prevention the last few years, and this is another unfortunate incident that might contribute to more restrictive procedures in the future.

[@moi01887]

@@Arch_Anemone Definitely not putting the blame on ATC, but I was wondering something similar with that "traffic pattern" the Malibu flew. It's basically just a big circle, and it's not too hard to imagine the pilot focusing on the end of the runway the entire time, to the exclusion of anything else (and in particular, looking for other traffic).

[@endokrin7897]

I agree I never like how accident reports are written. They'll probably blame BOTH pilots for not maintaining visual separation 🫣🤔😌🙄 In reality, the Malibu was FAST, made a rounded turn, looks like she/they lined up on the WRONG runway, etc. But will the NTSB assign any blame to ATC????

[@IMRANnet]

Truly how this stuff should be discussed and taught. Thank you.

[@billsheehy1]

As always, excellent Assessment

[@KnightDriveTV]

I frequent North Vegas aiport, was there today actually, and I find it a bit disturbing how easily this transpired under tower controllers eyes and I hope all the details are investigated. I spoke to people who know this couple (on the piper) personally and they made it clear that the husband was very hard of hearing. The husband/wife were both pilots to my understanding, but the husband was in his 80s and couldnt hear very well (current medical?), while the wife was mid 70s and I suspect operating the radios (because she can hear better). This means there was likely some secondary communications onboard between the two, for traffic managament and potentially a PIC that shouldnt be PIC. It will be very important to determine who was PIC that day but this is their frequent spot to fly into and somehow aimed at the wrong runway. The two in the Cessna were an instructor and student, they didnt even see it comin. These busier airports with a lot of old pilots on the field...this confusion in the air is very concerning. Its just my feeling that the tower should have some ability to be sure this doesnt happen...end of day, they have the most situational awareness in the pattern.

[@boneseyyl1060]

It kind of astounds me that people in their 80's are still flying. I would think just having a drivers license is sufficient for someone of that age. I'm not trying to be age biased here and I am not young myself. I know there are some pretty fit 80 year olds, but even so, at that age a medical event can happen at any time. Not to mention your cognitive and critical thinking processes. If he was hard of hearing, what kind of eyesight did he have? I would assume current medical means it would be required at least annually? That only proves you have no pressing medical issues correct? It doesn't prove that you are mentally able to fly. Still I think there should be a limit for general aviation. If commercial aviation believes 60 and 65 to be the limit, then probably around 75 is where I would put it. Exceptions could be made in special cases. I can't help but feel age was a factor in poor decision making here. Oh and did I not just watch a previous video ASI video where an older gentleman ignored warnings of bad weather in VFR with no flight plan? Are these bad decisions age related? I think it is possible.

[@ItsAllAboutGuitar]

@@boneseyyl1060 Age is a poor metric. I'm double the age of a lot of the people I work with and have double the fitness. If a 20 year old eats McDonalds every day and does nothing but play video games and a 50 year old eats organic and works out every day, I'm taking the 50 year old. I just did a maiden flight with a 74 year old and he was extremely sharp, full of energy and an inspiration to be around. He was better than me despite being much older as he has thousands of hours. A medical certificate is already required. If that guy is hard of hearing, he should have been denied a medical certificate.

[@11bravo1789]

I am not a pilot. Nobody past 70 should be flying a god damn thing. Period.

[@boneseyyl1060]

@@ItsAllAboutGuitar Well In case you didn't notice I did suggest 75 as my upper limit. I agree it is not a perfect metric, but I think it is safe to say that after 75 all your faculties will be in decline. There are always exceptions of course but the majority this is true. I am 63 and in pretty good shape but I doubt I would consider flying at 75 if I were a pilot. I already have a hard time remembering where I left my glasses 5 mins ago. The reason age isn't mentioned as a factor is because it is an impossible thing to prove. Is it simple pilot error or was it mental error due to age? Especially when this pilot was supposed to be familiar with this airport. Can't say, so it simply becomes pilot error. If airlines consider it a factor, why shouldn't general aviation? Everything has a beginning and an end and I think for safety's sake ( the pilot and others) flying until 75 years is plenty long enough. Waiting to see what the investigation brings forward. Oh and the 20 year old McDonald's eater will still be better than the 50 year old athlete, lol. It does take a while for that stuff to have effect and there is no substitute for youth. But at equal ages, yea I am going with the organic guy! 😉

[@boneseyyl1060]

@@11bravo1789 I agree, if I was on a commercial flight, I am not sure how comfortable I would feel if I saw an elderly looking person in command. In fact the airlines may mandate it in part for public confidence, as much as age related limitations.

[@bro.kingfish8029]

82 year old pilot of the Piper Malibu. Female passenger doing radio work.

[@crazyralph6386]

You mean copilot? Last time I checked pax aren’t allowed to use VHF radios in controlled airspace?

[@bro.kingfish8029]

@@crazyralph6386 This passenger was a licensed pilot.

[@crazyralph6386]

@@bro.kingfish8029 If that’s the case, it makes this entire accident even more needless. She should’ve been scanning for traffic instead of being Chatty Cathy on the airwaves.

[@sidblephneiben]

Great analysis of a tragic accident. I fly from KVGT and will make belly check a standard practice.

[@justinjwolf]

Using Tower for a casual "Hey, where are you coming from?" might seem innocuous, but it violates the sterile cockpit concept that should be maintained during landing. It's tough to resist being friendly to friends, but this sort of distraction shouldn't be forced on pilots. The controller should also feel empowered to chastise the improper use of his frequency.

[@Godzilla032]

Agreed, i was looking for this comment. It distracts you instantly and for quite awhile after. It could be a major contributor to this accident. Unnecessary radio calls and chit chat have no place on common or controlled airspace frequencies.

[@Dwightstjohn-fo8ki]

@@Godzilla032 "Chit Chat" has no place anywhere. It drives me crazy to have a bus driver constantly on her/his open radio to other Transit busses (a small carrier NOT unionized that serves an outlying area where I worked).

[@janep4652]

Agreed. That casual violation of sterile cockpit probably killed 4 people. Way to go dipstick.

[@jonnacrutchfield1112]

Thank you for a clear, and concise explanation of this tragic situation.

[@jbw3]

I didn’t hear ATC warn about parallel landing traffic. Perhaps that might have helped.

[@wturn5354]

Exactly, traffic MUST be issued to both!

[@trueblueflying]

100 percent agree, I normally would hear that advisory at KVGT

[@tomsnide]

What a concise presentation. Thank you.

[@AirSafetyInstitute]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@edcew8236]

Another excellent video.

[@bayouflier6641]

Solid analysis. Thanks for the info. I'd be surprised if you didn't nail it.

[@marcantonio152]

Excellent discussion and presentation of the preliminary data. Thank you for this!

[@scotabot7826]

Cessna was hit from behind! Nothing further he could have done to improve his position, other than staying on the ground. Prayers to all loveones involved!!

[@williamsalvaggio4621]

Awesome video. Thanks so much 👍👍👍🛩️🛩️

[@richp1420]

Excellent analysis and presentation thank you. As a retired Air Traffic Controller, I take a special interest in accidents occuring in controlled airspace, especially in the traffic pattern.

[@waltroberts2504]

Cockpit complacency and possibly controller complacency may very well be one of the root causes of this accident. It can happen to any pilot anytime, from low timers to 10000+ hour pilots. I learned this very early in my flying when I took my instrument checkride. The examiner informed me that we would have to do the ILS approach through clouds and asked me to call Center for a clearance while we were in a hold. Center reported the field VFR and asked me to call the tower. Tower said the field was VFR and get my clearance from the center. After several back and forths, I got a clearance to the on field VOR, then fly the full procedure which included a compass locator as an initial/final approach fix. I departed the hold for the VOR and as the ADF needle began to swing the examiner blew a gasket and asked me in no uncertain terms where I thought I was going. I replied to the VOR. He grabbed the approach chart, pointed at it and said, "No No NO NO! NO!! The IAF is the locator!" I informed him that we were cleared to the VOR on an ATC assigned clearance and that's what we had to do. He was even more unhappy with me. Not knowing what else to do, I called the center, by now unhappy with us too and asked to reconfirm the clearance. It was as I told him to the VOR, fly the full procedure, report the VOR outbound. The examiner was silent until we were cleared for the low approach when he said, land the airplane, which we did. In his office I got a lengthy lecture on the evils of cockpit complacency and if it could happen to a 10000 hour designated pilot examiner, it can happen to anyone and don't ever let it happen to you. He added that he had flown that approach hundreds of times and had never received that clearance. I asked if I could complete the check ride. He handed me my instrument rating and congratulated me on flying the airplane despite a raving distraction from the right seat.

[@VanderbiltMr]

Thanks for the share Walt

[@kenclark9888]

Not the controllers issue at all. Take another listen. The local controller instructed the Malibu to land on 30L and the pilot acknowledged so tell us how the controller is at fault Mr Matlock

[@speedomars]

No. The error was solely the Piper pilot. The tower cleared him for 30L, the tapes even show he acknowledged the clearance and was reminded about the runway prior to picking the wrong runway.

[@waltroberts2504]

@@speedomars @kenclark9888 Agree with you both. It was clearly the Malibu pilot's error. The underlying cause of the pilot error and choosing the wrong runway is where we should be looking. Parallel approach operations are always a concern and everyone has to be aware that the other guy may screw up and be prepared. Sometimes, though, you can't be prepared enough for "the other guy" and this is the sad outcome.

[@speedomars]

@@waltroberts2504 In this case, the Piper landed ON TOP OF the training plane. But there were other factors no one can know about except those that knew the pilot in the Piper. The parallel runway theory did not apply in this case, nor was there a conflict in regard to what ATC was telling both pilots. The Piper pilot made all the errors, ignored his clearances and basically killed the pair in the other plane, himself and his wife riding in the right seat.

[@tomdchi12]

My heart really sank with that double check from the tower that it was the left runway. Between this and the (amazingly) non-fatal collision at Centennial about a year ago, it really looks as though GA/VFR type parallel runway operations require some changes to improve safety.

[@outwiththem]

Better pilots. ATC dont fly the airplane..

[@ldmax]

@@outwiththem ATC can definitely do things to mitigate the risk. This was a highly unusual pattern entry for North Las Vegas. VGT has published VFR arrival routes and checkpoints that are typically assigned by ATC. Coming from the northeast with the 30s in use, you would typically be assigned the El Cortez arrival. Fly over the El Cortez - a very prominent casino. Then proceed to the Spaghetti Bowl - a prominent highway intersection just south of VGT. This would have avoided crossing through the 30R pattern and set the Malibu up on a 3 mile final for 30L. It also would have avoided the potential for the Malibu to turn in too close to line up with 30L (which is what actually did happen). Bottom line is this accident wouldn't have happened if ATC had assigned the standard arrival route.

[@joelobryan1212]

The Cirrus in that Centennial mid-air obviously was able to deploy the Cirrus Emergency parachute system and save the occupants. The C-172 is this mid-air got subjected to an overtaking turboprop wood-chipper cutting through it at +50 knots. That soft aluminum Skyhawk was shredded to pieces by that turboprop. See the Skyhawk wreckage photos of chopped up mess for evidence how that happened.

[@outwiththem]

@@ldmax No big deal turns. If the pilot is a pilot. A 270 overhead approach to land.

[@outwiththem]

@@ldmax You posted. ATC can definitely do things to mitigate the risk. They do. They reminded him to align with the left runway. But the dam clod cant do ok turns. What about this; Piper Meridian, dont be stupid, turn that think well and align like a dam pilot, roger. Stop defending clods and coward as pilots, UNLESS YOU ARE ONE OF THEM. ATC dont fly the airplane, you bullshiterer..

[@robinmyman]

Thanks!

[@cumradej]

I’m a student pilot in the later stages of my training and still forget to tilt the wing to check for traffic before turns every now and then. I don’t work with parallel runways, at least yet, but after watching this, I’ll definitely be extra aware of my blind spots.

[@Av-vd3wk]

“Wrong Surface Event” = Think Harrison Ford…

[@westonprince8221]

Such a great video, Im based out KVGT and had just left the airport 10 min before this occurred. Frustrating as about 5 yrs VGT removed the approach into the 30s and are only available from the other side on the 12s. Belly checks will be something that is now a common practice for myself as I fly a low wing and have flown this exact route many times into VGT and is an extremely common route for student pilot solos. Nellis AFB Tracon guides them in from the East down to 3500ft, fly over field and dropped into the downwind. It can be a busy airspaces and the controllers are excellent there. Sad to see this tragic event but much can be learned from this to prevent accidents in the future,

[@moxievintage1390]

Interesting to hear your perspective! And timing was on your side! #flysafe

[@crfdln]

IMO this would not be a good airport to practice T&G landings.

[@ldmax]

Does ATC not assign the published VFR arrival routes anymore? The El Cortez (formerly Showboat) route from the east? They would bring you in over the El Cortez casino, then over the Spaghetti Bowl that would set you up on about a 3 mile final for 30 L or R (usually L as R was for planes remaining in the pattern). That's how it was always done whenever I flew out of there. Cortez Route from the east. Rocks Route from the west.

[@phototrap1]

Sincere best wishes to the victims and their familes. I live in here in Henderson right next to the Henderson / Las Vegas Executive Airport and we were all shocked by this. Our airport has multiple high-traffic / tight-turn approaches. Sometimes you wonder how these collisions don't happen more often, though I am certainly glad they are rare. Hopefully once the official investigation is completed, you will do a full-lenth accident case study on this. These videos prevent accidents and save lives.

[@pintobob76]

Modern cockpits allow pilots to input and follow a “Visual Approach”. I do this on my 750…input and confirm L or R for 31 / 13 at Palm Springs. There, the traffic you might collide with is mostly 737 airliners. So being vigilant is even more important.

[@williampotter2098]

pintobob76 Very good point. That's a good procedure. I always put a final approach into my box. It will always assure that you are on final to the correct runway. I think the Piper pilot felt she was home in her own sandbox and got a little cocky and complacent.

[@MrAntiGema]

Awesome analysis

[@AirSafetyInstitute]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@YaofuZhou]

Thanks for the content. I would remind myself that overshoot resulted by crosswind could lead to hazardous situation as well.

[@richardmcspadden9189]

Thanks for the comment. Possible, certainly. Just doesn't seem likely in this accident. Light winds down the runway and the left descending profile of the Malibu was on a steady course to 30R.

[@kobyonekanobie2790]

I caught that but also heard 172 on the audio say he had eyes on the traffic and should have kept the his eyes on traffic and extended his downwind to do so, and maybe have avoided the collision even if the piper was lined up on wrong runway..

[@stevejonescap]

As always, great analysis ASI team! You are saving lives every day by reinforcing critical concepts and procedures through your professional analysis.

[@serjaimelannister2557]

I was at the field that day for a checkride, it was so unnerving to be that close to a fatal accident. I was waiting ardently for a video regarding this accident to be released by the Air Safety Institute. The best way to honor those that were lost is to learn all we can from the events that took place, so that it may never happen again.

[@richardmcspadden9189]

The sole purpose in our work producing these videos. Thanks for your comment.

[@anthonystevens2156]

Would be great to hear the complete ATC audio. This seems to be another classic mistake of Tower not telling the person in the Malibu that another plane was on approach to the parallel runway. That would’ve given the Malibu pilot more concern to be cautious and look for that pilot. Not this is completely Tower’s fault of course. The Malibu crossed over the airport at 900 feet going 147 knots. They crashed one minute later in a very tight entry circle in high density altitude 100°F weather do ground speed was high. The Malibu pilot executed a rapid circular descent, misjudged and overshot their turn by going to fast. They should’ve done a standard downwind, base and final. They crash at the near the runway threshold going 118 knots. The Malibu specs appear to recommend retracting landing gear at 126 kn when they put their first flaps in. They reached that speed at 200 AGL only 7 secs before collision during their very tight turn base to final, according to the ground track image provided in the video.

[@831BeachBum]

As a pilot approaching an intended airport it's their responsibility to listen to ATC for other aircraft inbound so you can avoid a collision. What's interesting to note is there is an audio recording between the tower controller and of all pilots inbound for KVGT at that time. The Cessna pilot had asked for the "Option" in this case known to be a short approach by keeping the Base Leg (90 degrees to landing path) in closer than usual for touch & go's. The Piper Malibu is not a standard Malibu anymore with the Lycoming recip engine but in fact had the turbine conversion making it the Malibu Mirage. Could be the pilot of the Malibu Mirage overshot the turn to final for 30L because of too fast a speed for manuevering.

[@anthonystevens2156]

@@831BeachBum Fortunately I’ve experienced many ATC controllers that understand the need to let pilots know when another plane is nearby on parallel approach. So may not yet be required, but given multiple accidents like this, maybe ATC should provide this guidance?

[@jordan65730]

@@anthonystevens2156 I agree 100% that the call about potentially conflicting traffic would have been advisable. I do not land often at airports with parallel runways, however more often than not I have been advised of other landing traffic on the parallel.

[@wturn5354]

@@anthonystevens2156 the controller SHOULD have issued mutual traffic! (30 years ATC retired)

[@charleslindsay3201]

yes ATC let these pilots down by not keeping them apart.

[@stevekirk8546]

Richard will be sorely missed - his quiet analysis of events like this help pilots both in real life and simmulation to get themselves organised before taking to the air. That really does make a difference.

[@dukeshaver199]

Really good video and especially good commentator. Keep him for more videos.

[@iamthevanavator281]

Carol was 76. Her passenger (co-pilot?) was 82. Not saying age was a factor but put that together with parallel offset runways and flying an arc-ing approach as opposed to flying a distinct downwind, base and final. Would have had more time to identify both runways and perhaps land on the correct one.

[@davidgapp1457]

I'm always leery about parallel runway operations. Two observations. After crossing mid-field, the approach to 30L by the Malibu is sloppy. In general, if I join the pattern I would establish a proper downwind and base leg. On base I would definitely have my lights on (which may or may not make my aircraft more visible to approaching traffic). In addition, executing this kind of approach means the pilot is relatively busy and may be cutting procedural corners in order to get down. Maybe I'm being unfair and others would disagree, but it seems to me the Malibu pilot took unnecessary risks.The second observation pertains to calling traffic. Yes, I know you might overhear the conversations and surmise there's converging traffic for the other runway, but having the tower call traffic is more explicit and might've helped both pilots see and avoid. Did the tower call traffic? I have no idea. But what I do know is that if I'm practicing patterns I would likely extend the downwind leg had traffic been called. Frankly, it's something the tower might've considered too. I'm interested to know what other pilots think and what their reasoning would be.

[@baomao7243]

I tend to think similarly on this (esp. having flown quite a bit at KVGT and in both high and low wing aircraft). It just feels like the Malibu “should’ve” overflown and descended in a teardrop (to the NW) to allow joining the downwind at pattern altitude and with a 45 deg entry angle.

[@SoloRenegade]

the pattern was fine. Doing a normal pattern entry like this is so routine (I doubt yours are as square as you believe). More likely they were Complacent and not looking hard enough for traffic, or distracted by talking to other people so they never learned of the other traffic. Crossed mid field = FAA recommended procedure Flew a generally correct pattern = FAA recommended procedure (including the continuous downwind to final turn procedure) Lining up on the wrong runway = mistake Failing to see and avoid traffic = mistake Complacency = possible mistake

[@ChristopherRorvick]

120 kts ground speed on final doesn't seem fine for a Malibu, no?

[@baomao7243]

@@SoloRenegade No disagreement on what seems to be pretty strong complacency, esp. given the apparent final on the wrong runway. (I had a pilot announce direct descent into base leg when I was already on that same base leg in a high wing. I couldn’t see them in top of me. Pucker factor suddenly pegged as i had ZERO visibility of them and feared right/left/climb. But at least we “didn’t manage to meet.”

[@SoloRenegade]

@@ChristopherRorvick that's normal for a Cessna 310

[@gtarick1225]

Why perform a constant left turn to join the final? Join the downwind and make sure your setting yourself up for the correct runway... Very sad.

[@MrRwalls33]

Man, I just did training out of that airport during a business trip about a month ago. That is some crazy busy airspace. So sad for all involved.

[@keithwatts3189]

My take away was the call out from the another pilot (not involved in the accident) just as the Malibu is entering the pattern. I don’t feel that’s appropriate. It takes your attention off your task. If the Malibu normally lands on R and has there mind on answering the call out, and not on task at hand, it sets up for disastrous events. Stay professional and talk on the ground.

[@Heatherder]

My take away is women fly like they drive

[@ChrisJohnson-hk6es]

She was handling the radios, her husband was flying. I also agree that the unnecessary conversation was at the worst possible time during a busy approach. I do hope the pilot who did that will be talked to about this. He clearly knew her, and I'm sure he could have texted to called her at another time.

[@frankloy2701]

There are a lot of unanswered questions here and many have already addressed a lot of the possible causes. As a retired air traffic controller I wonder if the tower exchanged traffic information to the Piper and Cessna? Advising the instructional pattern aircraft of the inbound Piper to the parallel runway and vice versa should have occurred. I don’t know if it did but that certainly could have helped prevent this accident.

[@speedomars]

The tower repeated the clearance at least twice. The pilot of the Piper confused the runways.

[@rodolfoayalajr.8589]

Rip Amen 🙏. Thank you friend for this educational video.

[@malcolmmarzo2461]

Spent several days flying out of North Las Vegas Airport in the '90s. Then it was super busy, with thousands of operations per day, due to all the tourist scenic flights. They have an air terminal just for this purpose that is larger than many city airports. This is not an airport I would care to spend much student time circling the "race track." In general the Las Vegas metro airspace is an intense, tiring experience for non-locals. And the routes to the Grand Canyon and Hoover Dam are so busy you feel like a B-17 pilot entering German territory. Luckily being a Vietnam combat veteran has made me hyper vigilant. Especially on the Las Vegas freeways, where I've have more close calls than years of flying : -)

[@GA-in4mw]

1:57 That UNKOWN caller killed his friend pilot by distracting her... And now he is the reason for the accident altogether... Wow.

[@ikefork2606]

Horrible tragic accident that should have never happened. As a 2+ decade COM-CFII, my thinking is that the tower controller should have issued a caution to the Malibu pilot such as this: "N7CX - caution...Cessna traffic turning base-to-final on the parallel runway 30R.....report traffic in sight." A caution such as this could have saved 4 lives.

[@rustyheckler8766]

Lv and Nlv are my old stomping grounds. Summer time over Vegas can have it's own set of issues. There is generally a smog layer, heat distortion and particularly nasty thermals to make flying a light aircraft more difficult.

[@JClishe]

I did some pre-solo flights at KLUK. It has 21L & R, and 25. My first time in the pattern for 21L I saw 25 straight in front of me during my base leg. I got confused and started heading towards 25. Fortunately my instructor was anticipating this and said it was a common student mistake. Makes you appreciate how easily this can happen, and how important situational awareness is. I had my heading bug set for 21 but I didn't verify it.

[@ZhihengCao]

When there is parallel runway like in KSNA the tower ALWAYS asks at least one of the airplane if they have the other in approach in sight/visual contact. If the tower had done that this could have been avoided.

[@kennixox262]

North Las Vegas -KVGT was rated as one of the most dangerous general aviation airports and when I lived in the NW part of Las Vegas, sheer amateur hour above especially by the "Sunday flyers". I presume that they moved the power lines about a decade ago? With recent changes in flight patterns, I predict that there will be a crash sooner or later over Centennial Hills/Lone Mountain.

[@gratt2]

As a low time pilot I am putting all the advice by other pilots and putting them in my toolbox. I can't help but wonder if both planes were using a platform like Foreflight, with traffic alerts. This feature is so helpful to me for situational awareness. I never go up without it, even when staying in the pattern.

[@hempelcx]

That tight in the pattern at that high of ground speed, there's little chance a traffic alert would have even been acknowledged by the pilot of the Mirage, much less acted on. Your best defense within the traffic pattern is situational awareness (listening on the radio) and the Mark I Eyeball. And this is coming from a genuine fanboi of ADS-B and EFB traffic info.

[@IslandSimPilot]

Obviously this is Goose and Maverick in the Malibu's fault. 135 knots in a descending constant-bank turn from over top the field is basically a military approach, and it's just insane to do at a busy class D airport. But to me in my pokey little Cherokee, the takeaway is to ALWAYS be aware of other traffic. I'm not saying that the 172 pilot wasn't. But especially if I've got parallel runways and someone making a base-to-final approach to the other one, in the opposite direction as me and to a parallel runway, I'm going to be SUPER vigilant.

[@sqwk2559]

There’s nothing wrong or unusual about 136KIAS at class D’s midfield or base. We now have these things called jets. Sounds like speed envy to me. The Piper looks to have hit the Cessna at 118knots. 🤫

[@oliverjenkins6054]

I also notice the Malibu was coming into final at basically double the 172's airspeed; I've got to imagine at some point in that final left turn the 172 would have been clearly visible ahead if either of those onboard put any effort into traffic awareness. Seems like complacency/familiarity with the airport played a big role.

[@maxflight777]

I had the same reaction to the speed data … perhaps unprofessional.

[@maxflight777]

VFE is 120 in the Malibu … so I agree with “upstate flyer” a slower overhead join and appropriate downwind speeds should have been flown.

[@alanaspurling6469]

@@sqwk2559 it’s always the faster aircraft’s responsibility to avoid slower traffic… aided by air traffic control…. Some of us have zero rearward visibility.

[@marcelob.5300]

Perhaps ATC letting each other know there was an airplane landing in the other runway at the same time would have helped?

[@HighOctane-wo6cm]

Yes good point . I never heard ATC ask if they had traffic in sight !

[@calvinnickel9995]

Honestly lots of times I have to really think hard what is left and what is right. I’ve even got reciprocal runways mixed up.. partly because of the way the heading is presented on the DG/HSI vs how they are numbered on the runway. (EI 36 is at bottom of the runway but top of the DG). For takeoff I always set my bug to make sure it’s the correct runway and verify it before rolling. Landing and circuits I’d usually set front course on the HSI. This of course doesn’t help with parallel runways, so I’d set localizer to make sure I was lined up. For airports without a localizer or instrument approach, I select a runway and final offset in the FMS. Most GPSs and Foreflight as well have this option and I highly recommend using it. Foreflight even has a voice message telling you what final you are entering (also does for crossing active runways). I verify the runway when I’m handed over to approach or tower to make sure what’s entered matches what I’ve been assigned.

[@steved2460]

Where can I find a piper model like he is using in the video

[@victorcarreno6099]

To reinforce what Mr. Vaughn Mickelson and other said, it is very instinctive once you visually acquire a runway, to try to land on that runway. I had the same experience landing at Manassas (KHEF). Was cleared to land on 34L. When turning left base, the first runway you see is 34R which is about 2,500 ft longer than 34L. I started to go for 34R when realized it was the wrong runway. I was able to correct before crossing the center line but had a scare that has lasted to this day.

[@mccloysong]

I can't imagine it not being exactly why and how you described it. If you fly enough, you'll have "whoops" moments. Some are lessons, others are unforgiving. All it takes is once, in a split second. It could be any of us, regardless of experience.

[@wrxpilot]

So true. I’ve been flying for pleasure and professionally for almost 20 years. The closest I’ve come to dying was 15 years ago as a CFI in a near mid-air in the pattern. We were doing everything right…. Looking, talking on CTAF, and “belly check” turns. Still, we came within feet of colliding with a guy not talking and doing a weird pattern entry. This kind of stuff can absolutely happen to anyone.

[@jeffreymcneal1507]

I had about two "whoops" moments as a younger man, as a private pilot. Though it pained me to do so, I quit flying because I recognized that, for whatever reason, I lacked the needed situational awareness. It just seemed that the third time luck would fail me. . The aviation world, and myself, is better off for it. The relaxed, "I'm in control voice" was the sound of an amateur trying to sound all dialed in. I know, I tried to sound that way, too.

[@mccloysong]

@@jeffreymcneal1507 that makes you a good pilot. Good judgment is the most important element. Sometimes we should get back on the horse that kicked us off, but other times we need to know when not.

[@dclate62]

Hearing of these reports always sends a shiver down my spine and reminds me of how lucky i am. Back in 1989 I survived a mid-air collision between 2 Cessna 207s. Despite having the engine pretty much dislodged from it's mounts, losing all instrumentation and a jammed throttle, I made it back. Sadly the occupants of the other aircraft did not survive as the aircraft spirraled in. 'There by the Grace of God go I'. My logbook entry has these words by author Richard Bach below it,.." Those of us who fly have our debts to pay"...Keep safe out there people..

[@biggru4114]

Where is the communications from tower to each pilots alerting them of traffic on the parallel runways and do they have the other traffic in sight?

[@colinfitzgerald4332]

While flying within 10 miles of your destination or departure airport, adjust ADS-B in resolution to 10 miles or less so aircraft within airport’s traffic pattern can be monitored. I fly at an airport (KSFF) with offset parallel runways. When another aircraft is cleared to land on the other runway, a visual check for the other aircraft is in order. I fly a Cessna 150 so pilot demand on final is rather low and allows for time to be defensive.

[@low_lead]

Impeccable analysis by McSpadden and a tragedy regardless. Interesting that this might be less likely to occur at an uncontrolled field with pilots calling their turns. I'm always on edge in parallel or simultaneous ops environments. I spend a lot of time using grass "alternate landing areas" alongside asphalt runways and have seen conflicts arise over who thinks they have the active.

[@rmp5s]

It'll never cease to amaze me when this sort of thing happens. Aaaaaaaall that space in the sky and two craft just happen to be in the same place at the same time. Just SECONDs sooner or later and it would have likely been nothing more than a terrifying close call. Tragic.

[@williambutler2177]

Any chance we could get some analysis from you on the crash of N8488L on Sept 13, 2020 (NTSB #: CEN20LA392)? As a pilot in the local area who frequently flies out of the same airport I'm interested in what exactly happened and what can be learned from the incident, but even reading through what NTSB info I can find still leaves me stumped as to what happened. Thanks!

[@scotabot7826]

Only the Good Lord knows on that one. They are pretty sure it was not a aircraft failure of any kind. So, that leads me to believe, one of the three people on the aircraft were the problem.

[@rogerwise4105]

Good analysis of what may have happened. I'm a little surprised that the controller didn't advise the Malibu about the 172 doing touch and goes.

[@mikebarker9187]

Did tower or any ATC notify both pilots of the other’s presence? Do these aircraft have means other than eyeballs to detect presence of others?

[@maciejcharyga8349]

Did my check ride in 160RA have about 50 hours in that plane. RIP, this one hit super close to home.

[@williamsowa8238]

I think perpendicularly overflying the runways at > 500 ft TPA then continuing flying perpendicular straight out away from the airfield, making a slow right-handed descent in a right teardrop into a 45 degree entry into the left downwind for both runways before turning left base gives you: 1. Time to slow your KIAS down to pattern speed. 2. Time to scan for traffic during your right turn teardrop. 3. Time to descend to TPA coming into the 45 degree entry into the left downwind. 4. Time for tower to confirm LEFT runway cleared to land once again while you are still entering on the 45 degree into the left downwind.

[@williampotter2098]

You try that at a busy tower airport and they will hang you ..... LOL That perhaps is a good procedure at a non-tower airport. As a matter of fact it is recommended in AIM. I don't like it because too many times people will turn back to the airport too soon, not going out far enough and turn head-on into downwind traffic. I've seen that happen too many times. But that is all beside the point. That isn't done at tower airports and besides, that just wasn't her clearance.

[@PresleyTV]

Offset runways, it is easy to glom on to the closest runway because you see it first. Doesn't even have to be the same airport. Biggs AAF and ELP, for example. This one and now Watsonville. Sad. Been flying for 55 years and still, traffic patterns and entries get my attention the most. Nice job again, Boss.

[@fe6147]

I think there are a couple of points missing in this conversation.... One item is that (although likely the ATC audio is not complete here), was there any "traffic" exchanged from ATC to either aircraft about each other? The Malibu did not fly a "standard" pattern entry, nor "standard" box pattern, rather it appears they flew an unnecessary (IMO) fighter type overhead/letdown. I don't see that type of maneuver in the AIM or 7110.65, but I do see "crosswind", "downwind", "base", etc. to describe patterns and how they should be flown. The controller appeared to think something was not going well, and restated the landing runways when maybe he should have been issuing traffic, or traffic alert. The ATC conversation should have included; point of pattern entry (if not otherwise coordinated), reporting point (for landing clearance), traffic on the Cessna (for awareness of both), and the landing runway. The landing runway was restated several times, but that's not what killed them all. The aircraft collided because 1) neither appeared to be aware of each other, 2) the Malibu flew a sloppy pattern and got wide into the Cessna, and 3) ATC didn't have the foresight (which is about 99% of what ATC is all about) to see this coming and when he did, he did not follow basic controlling rules to sort any of this out in time.

[@marlinweekley51]

In this case couple things: 1. The pilots was apparently familiar with the airport so in perfect vmc strange he/she would mistake left for right. 2. Also curious why the controller when confirming the left runway clearance didn’t mention traffic using the right runway. Terrible situation. 🙁

[@sethtenrec]

Too busy being friendly

[@timceci7064]

Agreed. While the controller did take the extra step of confirming the runway assignment and I feel ultimately the PIC of the Malibu was at fault, this accident may have been avoided had the potential traffic conflict been pointed out to both of the landing aircraft.

[@Flavortown_69]

When your downwind is too close to the field, it’s very easy to overshoot to the wrong runway, especially when the runways are offset. Second, tower is not responsible for the separation of aircraft in VFR conditions except for landing and departing aircraft so as to avoid runway collisions. In this case, the two aircraft involved were instructed to land on separate runways, and though tower often advises of traffic, it is not required.

[@timceci7064]

@@Flavortown_69 I don't think that anyone said ATC is responsible for separation, but typically they are very proactive about providing traffic advisories even to VFR aircraft. Quite often when landing at a field with parallel runways, ATC will advise to expect traffic on final on the adjacent one. If this had been done in this case, it is reasonable to suggest that the accident may have been averted.

[@marlinweekley51]

@@Flavortown_69 “downwind” is not a specific place - it can’t be “too close”- one should make their downwind at a safe practical distance which takes into account factors such as wind and their aircraft performance. While AtC may not be “required” to point out traffic it has been my experience that ATC will give traffic advisories in Vmc conditions work load allowing. In this case the controller had time for casual conversation so just think it’s a bit unusual the close in traffic wasn’t pointed out to both aircraft.

[@lakerenegadepilot6211]

I’m leaning more into overshooting final. The runways at KVGT are very easy to distinguish, specially if you are a local pilot, therefore it seems hard to line up on the wrong runway, specially since you typically seldom land on the North runway unless you are parking up north or doing pattern work. You can see how tight of a pattern the Meridian flew, could there have been some wind from the south pushing the plane into the other runway, I didn’t look at the ATIS for that day? There was also an Extra coming in for landing behind the Meridian, could that have compeled the pilot to expedite their approach? Also, what seat was the pilot flying in, if they were in the right seat, it would have made it more difficult to realized they turn down wind a little close.

[@speedomars]

The Piper pilot was in the right seat, his wife in the right seat doing radio work.

[@chicoarraes]

Other than the wrong surface landing, it seems to me the whole operation would be much safer with a more rigid pattern being enforced (especially because there was traffic circling the pattern) and taking care for a bit more separation, even if the clearances were directed to different runways. It surprises me that none of that was done considering there was an operational tower controlling the traffic.

[@virgilhilts3924]

In this situation the tower controller has no say as to how the last portion of the approach is flown

[@Brian-ff7tw]

@@virgilhilts3924 Tru, but the tower controller did not tell the planes about one another either. I think that is a factor here too.

[@sigbauer9782]

I can't believe no one had an iPad with an ADS-B receiver to check for traffic. I ALWAYS bring my iPad with ForeFlight and my Stratus 3, not for nav, but for traffic awareness.

[@joelobryan1212]

an ADSB-in receiver would have also given a collision alert warning. the C-172 as a school trainer was probably not equipped with ADSB-in, and even if the instructor had an iPad he would have been looking at the approach the student was making not down at an iPad in that critical phase coming over the threshold. Whether the Piper had organic (installed) ADSBin capability is publicly unknown at this time.

[@joelobryan1212]

the > +50kt overtake speed of the Malibu means that Cessna pilots were never in a position to see the Piper descending into their approach path. a belly check turn by the C172 pilot would never have allowed them see that Piper dropping down and closing fast from their 8 to 7 oclock position. In the ADSB track you can even see a slight jog right as the Malibu rolls out on the 300 heading. This is fully the Malibu pilot's fatal error in turning to downwind and base too tight and lining up on a clearly marked 30R runway, after acknowledging the controller's 30L clearance.

[@mikecournoyer]

And this is why I always load an approach for the cleared runway to make sure I don’t make this mistake…

[@Your_Sweater_]

i was just at that airport last week looking at a flight school. so sad!

[@j700jam4]

Was there any other traffic in the pattern?

[@Gualdemar]

I don't see here a LOW WING/HIGH WING problem, but an aircraft REACHING another aircraft from behind. Just check the timings and C150 was WELL established on the final when TBM overflight midfield. Meaning TBM omit to see and avoid. In this regard I think a MAJOR factor was the ATC NOT telling the presence of the C150, even though they were going for different RWYs. A timely waring from ATC would have made TBM crew aware of the situation and at least take a look for other traffic.. I KNOW they should have done it anyway BUT... coming hot, with lots of cockpit workload it would have helped and MAYBE avert this accident from happening.

[@flutetubamorg]

One observation left out of the analysis, the low wing aircraft was much faster than the high wing. So while high wing was already established on final, the low wing rolled out above and behind it. While low wing was banking left, it really should have been able to see the Cessna but obviously did not.

[@DBoone123]

I’m never going to fly but I still watch these videos as if I’m a pilot or something

[@gretchenlittle6817]

Very well presented! Do we know if the Malibu's radio coms were from its PIC? Makes me think maybe not?

[@ChuckThree]

They were not. Coroner’s report indicated the male was pilot and female was passenger. A comment from someone claiming to know the Piper couple commented on the Kathryn’s Report (before the coroner’s report was released) that their standard procedure was that the male would fly while the woman would do radio. Comment also claimed the woman was licensed.

[@gretchenlittle6817]

@@ChuckThree Thanks for replying!

[@AFO3310]

I fly out of VGT primarily these days. The sky is absolutely jam packed full of student pilots to the point they actually close the pattern to a lot of aircraft. When they tell you to line up on the correct runway, make ABSOLUTELY sure you’re aligned. Please be extra vigilant when flying into an airport with extensive flight school traffic. Note: KVGT has over 10 flight schools at this one airport alone.

[@cgjohnst45]

The students aren’t even the problem out of KVGT. It’s the old guys who believe their experience outweighs their knowledge.

[@CCitis]

Brutal accident. Hope we can at least all learn from this.

[@maxtanicfilms]

We flew the same approach the Malibu did in our Cessna 310. I can remember as we turned left base for 30L a Citation was on a simultanious right base for 30R and we were head on during that base turn to final. I remember talking to my Dad and we both commented "geeze that was exciting!". Pay attention folks and be safe. This was so tragic , terrible combination of circumstance. God speed

[@gailtaylor1636]

I'm not a pilot but assumed an airport would have the same base turn "direction" for all aircraft? Everyone turns same direction. Seems like that would eliminate this issue. Maybe I'm not following though.

[@ldmax]

@@gailtaylor1636 Not if they're parallel runways. You can't have downwind on the same side of both runways. They would overlap. The left runway has to have a left downwind and thus a left base. The right runway has to have a right downwind and therefore a right base. At VGT, 30R is usually used for training aircraft doing pattern work while 30L is used for full stop arrivals. Typically, they set up arrivals on a 3 mile final over the Spaghetti Bowl - a prominent highway intersection just south of the airport. This overhead crossover that was assigned to the Malibu is highly unusual.

[@joelobryan1212]

@@ldmax My guess is the Piper pilot was in a hurry to get on the ground. Maybe a potty break needed flying in from northern Idaho. Commenters here who knew the couple in the Piper say the wife was in her mid70's and the husband was in his 80's and very hard of hearing. I know my Dad before he passed in his early 80's could never be more than about an hour from a toilet.

[@bayanon7532]

@@gailtaylor1636 It that were the case, one pattern would have to cross the final approach of the other runway each time they flew that pattern. That is a recipe for sure disaster. The procedure used here is normal, common and safe. The majority of aircraft accidents are caused by pilot error unfortunately. The pilot must remain vigilant and not make mistakes. There are many redundancies built into both the aircraft and the airways system. But it is still possible for the pilot to make mistakes that will end in death. The good news is that even as this is the case, it is still extremely safe and as they truthfully say, safer than driving a car. This pilot was obviously inexperienced, overconfident and made a mistake. RIP