Early Christian Schisms - Ephesus, the Robber Council, and Chalcedon - Extra History - Part 4

[@danthalios]

Fun fact: during one of the brawls plaguing the Council of Nicaea, it's said that Arius got into a fight with the bishop Nikolas of Myra, which led the latter to be temporarily sacked from his priesthood. We know Nikolas by his more common name, Saint Nicholas. Basically, Santa Claus punched Arius in the face.

[@TheGreekCatholic]

I heard it was a slap 👋 like will smith . I wasn’t there though

[@12jswilson]

That's a story that didn't pop up until centuries later, so it probably didn't happen. However, St Nikolas was almost certainly at Nicea, but probably didn't hit Arias in the face

[@preacherofmusic]

"Bro that's heresy!" said Santa Claus, punching him in the face

[@pdebbie]

​@@preacherofmusic🤣🤣 I only understand that joke now! Thanks for the reference lol

[@preacherofmusic]

@@pdebbie You are most welcome lol

[@Overhazard]

This is the sort of bickeringand unwavering rage I see over the Internet all the time. It's a bit comforting to know that humans have behaved in this way for as long as they've been around.

[@alexanderholder1913]

Overhazard The only difference now is the platform and tech driven to a polarized end.

[@userjaychan]

This person speaks the Truth somthing more rare than gold nowadays

[@MichaelKing015]

that means we never evolved

[@userjaychan]

This generation tho....

[@YoshMaster]

Comforting? Isn’t the exact opposite of comforting to see some people nowadays can be as stupid as those guys were? :(

[@extrahistory]

"You can't excommunicate me! I excommunicate YOU!" And so it begins...

[@hanssmirnov9946]

+Extra Credits I liked Paul's excommunications best. "So when you are assembled [...] and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord." You're giving me very little to write about, EH. This was well done, as I am characteristically having to tell you. Something I should mention about Monophysites, on the subject, is that it was a lot like Arianism. They were actually implying that Christ was neither human nor divine, a sort of demigod. This, like Arianism, has some very serious ramifications, and so it was a big issue. It wasn't a small nitpick, but a hugely important matter. Under the circumstances, it actually went surprisingly well. Thanks again for making this series. It has been a lot of fun to delve into this subject. The episode on writing should be similarly interesting.

[@PotatoBearRawr]

+Extra Credits Yes yes, but my dad can beat up yours... :D

[@HarduntheRanger]

+Extra Credits I like your trend of commenting the best line in the video so nobody else can nick it!

[@TheAlphariusOmegon]

guys please upload the music

[@VenseyNess]

First you take my looking for Alaska joke on that one playthrough of Pokemon, and now you put out the exact quote I was going to use!? You guys are on a role of taking my comments from me before I post them.

[@justanaverageguy912]

why let an excommunication get in the way of a good excommunication?

[@LOLquendoTV]

I miss Lets Drown Out

[@lordkarasu2263]

Caaaaal baaaaackS!

[@liarwithagun]

Hey dog, i heard you like excommunication so I excommunicated the excommunicated so they could excommunicate while they're excommunicated.

[@bhowardist]

wiser words have not been spoken

[@ChaosDX1]

"I know what you're thinking: If anything, this all makes too much sense. But just in case a few of you got lost in how much sense that just made..." I absolutely love this line for some reason.

[@Kwyjibo28372]

This is three years too late, but I would like to give props to the writer. That was a good one.

[@Veshgard]

Since several people asked in the comments about the final outcome of all this (which the video didn't explain very well because it ran out of time), here is a basic summary of where Christianity stood when the dust settled: *There were 3 Churches* by the time of Justinian (i.e. about 100 years after the Council of Chalcedon): 1. The main Church, representing the Chalcedonian faction and encompassing a majority of Christians. This is the ancestor of today's Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Churches. This was the Church that Justinian belonged to. It included the majority of Christians in the West, as well as in Eastern Europe, Greece, Anatolia, Georgia, Syria, and Palestine. 2. The monophysite Church, representing a large minority of Christianity overall, and holding a majority in Egypt, Ethiopia and Armenia. Its traditional geographic stronghold was Egypt. This is the ancestor of today's Coptic, Armenian, and Ethiopian Churches (as well as 3 other much smaller ones). 3. The nestorian Church, representing a small minority of Christians, most of whom were located in (or fled to) the Persian Empire. So, geographically, this ended up being the faction located furthest to the east. And believe it or not, it still exists today, in the form of the extremely tiny Assyrian Church of the East... which is based mainly in northern Iraq around Mosul (i.e. the territories that just got overrun by ISIS/Daesh).

[@q345ify]

Nestroianism was also really popular in Mongolia and Central Asia right? I remember hearing about how Kublai Khan's mother converted to it and how it may have been the inspiration for the Prester John story

[@rateeightx]

Wasn't Arianism Still Around, And Practiced By The Vandals (And Other Germanic Tribes)?

[@wildfire9280]

*Miaphysite, but yes they are commonly accused of Monophysitism while at the same time accusing Chalcedonians of Nestorianism

[@Birdylockso]

Nestorianism arrived in China around the 7th or 8th century.

[@youssefhany6295]

Veshgard nooooooo, coptic church is miaphysite not mono

[@VulcanTrekkie45]

Wait, that's it? We're not continuing on through to the Iconoclast crisis or the final split between Catholic and Orthodox?

[@dragon12234]

+Spencer O'Dowd IIRC this is just the Early ones, the later ones may come later

[@mrmadness2699]

Andrei Skobtsov, I had thought the final straw was the Latin church adding language to the Nicene Creed to the effect that the Holy Spirit emenated from the Father AND the Son.

[@rileyknapp5318]

Well they did say EARLY christian schisms.

[@nintendo2000]

​@@mrmadness2699 arianism was already covered though

[@Zerpderp0]

So was Jesus Dr. Jekle and Mr. Hyde, Two Face, or Danny Phantom

[@ryanmiech2380]

You nailed it!

[@OneEyeShadow]

+Zerpderp0 That analogy is beautiful.

[@Zerpderp0]

+Dude Thanks dude

[@ryantoth9887]

That's beautiful

[@TheLeadhound]

that's a pretty cool way to put it.

[@williamheayn3760]

Oprah would've been a great Pastor in this era. "You get excommunictated! You get excommunicated! Everyone gets an excommunication!"

[@jumpingjoy20]

+William Heayn Well more like a Bishop if you want someone who is supposed to be the head of a church. Pastors weren't a thing like they are today. :D

[@DrTssha]

+Sapphire Crook Thing is, I can believe that would happen...I mean, the crusade's already underway, so why let an excommunication get in the way of a good crusade?

[@danielortman2534]

and this is all thanks to a struggling car company I won't mention because, well, I'd rather them pay me to make myself look good.

[@tylerchua929]

Women cannot be pastors

[@I_Love_Figs]

Pope: Philip 4, yer excommunicated. Philip 4: Yer arrested. Catholicism is French now!

[@williancruz9657]

This is like a canon vs fanon debate.

[@ThemSensay]

It's exactly that. way too funny.

[@cireeeeeX]

That's exactly what it is. In fact I'm pretty the word cannon originally referred to what was officially accepted church doctrine.

[@HuntingTheEnd]

+cireeeeeX indeed

[@RubberyCat]

+Willian Gabriel () Not really, it is all fans arguing over what fanon is or should be canon.

[@spiritbond8]

+cireeeeeX no, it just comes from de greek word "kanonas" which is mean "[a] law", "[a] rule" tell me a word, any word at all and i will show u dat de root of dat word is come from greek

[@ChristianNeihart]

This is devolving into Looney Tunes levels of insane. Can you imagine Elmer Fudd, Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny doing this as a "Duck Season, Rabbit Season, Duck Season FIRE!" skit?

[@DeaconG1959]

And then...ELMER SEASON!

[@robkenner5456]

That's funny right there. I don't care who you are

[@ChristianNeihart]

@@Jonathan-fo4gv go away.

[@ChristianNeihart]

@@wannabecar8733 sure. Cool.

[@hsnd2388]

Early-Period Christianity: "Christ has 5 billion natures, I excommunicate you!" "Hah, I have played my trump card! I excommunicate you!" "You can't do that, I excommunicated you first!" "I did!" "I did!" "Shut up guys!" "... We both excommunicate you!" "Oh really? You get excommunicated, you get excommunicated, everyone gets excommunicated!"

[@DrTssha]

+Demosthenes6666 Oh god, I'm flashing back to my last board games night...

[@TallDarknCreepy]

+Demosthenes6666 Thumbs up for proper rules officiating AND for the name Demosthenes.

[@Thentavius]

+A384B31 So basically EPC is childish banter. e.e

[@shoandutrieux9447]

I excommunicate you buddy! I'm not your buddy, friend! I excommunicate you, friend! I'm not your friend, guy! I excommunicate you, guy ! I'm not your guy, buddy! I excommunicate you, buddy!

[@magnuspeacock5857]

Ah ha; _You_ cannot do that, for *I* already excommunicated *EVERYONE!!!!!!!!*

[@Ishkur23]

Here's a handy cheat sheet for understanding early Christian sects: Regarding God's nature: Binitarianism (God is twins) Trinitarianism (God is triplets) Sebellianism or Modalism (God is multiple personality disorder) Subordinationism (One part of God is better than the others) Arianism (one part ain't God) Sabbatarianism (one part doesn’t exist) Adoptionism (one part wasn’t God until later on) Monarchianism or Unitarianism (you can’t cut God up like a pie, you idiots). Regarding Jesus' nature: Monophysitism (Jesus was an indivisible God) Henophysitism (Jesus was a single humanGod), Dyophysitism or Nestorianism (Jesus was separately human and God) Docetism (that’s silly, God would never take physical form - Jesus was a ghost) Audianism (God can be a physical being all he wants) Eutychianism (Jesus was human but still better than any other human) Apollinarism (Jesus had a human body but a God mind) Patripassianism (God died on the cross to see what it felt like - turns out it really hurt) Logos[ism] (Jesus was a word that God spoke) Homoousian (Jesus was three separate but equal realities) Regarding beliefs: Donatism (baptism is stupid) Novatianism (rebirth is stupid) Pelagianism (salvation is stupid) Semipelagianism (okay, so salvation may not be so stupid...but it still requires a lot of divine intervention) Montanism (forgiveness is stupid) Antinomianism (organized religion is stupid) Legalism (faith without organized religion is stupid) Quartodecimism (let’s replace Jewish holidays with Christian ones) Animism (all dogs go to Heaven) Esotericism (let’s do everything in Latin so no one knows what we’re up to) Gnosticism (everyone else is wrong) Regarding reconciliation with Judaism: Ebionites (Jesus was the Messiah but not the son of God) Nazarenes (Jesus was the Messiah and the son of God) Messianic Jews (Jesus was God: The Son). Marcionism (a sect of Jewish Christianity that completely rejected Judaism) Gnosticism (a sect of Christianity that completely rejected Christianity)

[@andmos1001]

"What the heck is everyone talkning about?" Random citiesen during that time

[@superduperisaac]

Ishkur23 Good lord the history of my religion is one huge clusterfuck

[@o3_o3_28]

So the pope's an animist then?

[@djsona5428]

This blows my mind....

[@Lukas0901]

As a Christian i really don't know anymore

[@KrazyKaiser]

Fandom's are crazy man.

[@randommindz6782]

+zbo900 imagine 1000 years from now.... perhaps Matt Groening's idea will come true and people will fight over Star Trek vs. Star Wars XD

[@crispybacon4240]

+RandomMindz I stand behind master Spock! Live long and SUCK IT, Star Wars!

[@osurpless]

Some might say that you shouldn't reduce religion to the concept of a fandom, but I say that you very much should. KISS (Keep it Simple Silly) after all...

[@Nintendotron64]

And people act like this is a new phenomenon. Hah! Even thousands of years ago nobody agreed on anything! Shit. Imagine if the internet had existed back then.. O_O (P.S. being a Christian myself, I can indulge in a bit of admittingly well-deserved self-mockery)

[@legomunable]

@Águila701 they fought for a ideology while you make half assed remarks on the internet. Who are you to judge.

[@TheBrokensaintvxvx]

And suddenly, the Warhammer 40K lore makes sense

[@shocknix]

+Adam Fletcher Basically a bunch of people calling heresy on each other but too pious to BLAM! them.

[@mandragoradravgis]

+shocknix you know some people got killed for this. People willing to die for their faith are certainly willing to kill for it.

[@deltaproductions113]

The imperial truth. There ain't no gods worth worshipping so trust in science.

[@Fellknauel]

+Adam Fletcher most of warhammer's creators had history degrees. nuff said.

[@Colleywoodstudios]

+Adam Fletcher HA!

[@ArakkoaChronicles]

Really, all of this would be pretty funny if it wasn't so tragic.

[@Edgewalker001]

+Plasm Spasm So it's really quite funny. When you do the math.

[@rurik36]

+Verroak Krasha "Arian Barbarian" was pretty funny to me either way. I'm easily amused by rhyming and alliteration.

[@MegaAwesomeNick]

+Dee Twenty I imagine it being sung to the tune of the "Dave the Barbarian" theme.

[@vexaris1890]

+Verroak Krasha "The life of every individual, viewed as a whole and in general, and when only its most significant features are emphasised, is really a tragedy; but gone throguh in detail it has the character of a comedy." - Arthur Schopenhauer

[@dynamicworlds1]

Dispite my better sensibilities, I have to admit that I still find it helarious.

[@jordanloux3883]

5:03 Jesus guys. At this point you might as well start selling plush Walpoles.

[@travisbass9986]

+Jordan Loux SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

[@fristi61]

+Jordan Loux Plush Walpoles??? Yes please!!!

[@n3v3rn0wn]

+Jordan Loux I'm in!

[@TheOrangeType]

+Jordan Loux Hey, i'd buy it.

[@MrPapayaman1000]

+Jordan Loux YES PLEASE.

[@Mathmachine]

I wonder who was in charge of the Robber's Council to have made it such a mess? ...It was Walpole.

[@robertwalpole360]

+Mathmachine Hee, hee!

[@solomon_8302]

+Blackzero can't bow to him if he's excommunicated.

[@wildefice1]

+Blackzero thus begins the youtube schisms between the walpolites and the blackzereonites let this council begin posthaste!!

[@MarcusCato275]

the new patriarch of Alexandria Dioscorus presided over the robber council. he was a Monophysite who supported Eutyches view on Christology

[@LachyBalboa1]

I love how this series covers aspects of history not traditionally covered. There are so many interesting stories no one knows about

[@jellybean358]

of course Walpole is depicted as a mythical creature

[@RubberyCat]

+albert arnold () Where? Never mind, saw him.

[@robertwalpole360]

+albert Arnold I am the best mythical creature!

[@rssfeed1360]

+RubberyCat 5:00 XD

[@Ko6i]

+albert arnold That is incorrect, Walpole is in fact of two seperate natures, human and mythical, at once.

[@MrSam1er]

+Ko6i Well no, obviously Walpole is only one separate nature, who lives in harmony with himself and his other half.

[@chaoticcranium]

In the process of watching this video, even I got excommunicated somehow.

[@Janootz]

"Oh yeah, well we'll start our own council! With hookers! and blackjack! You know what, forget the council!" - The Antioch Delegation

[@andy4an]

as a christian, I've really loved this series. You portrayed the first three parts really fairly, so for this part, where I don't actually have the knowledge to know if you are accurate or not, I am comfortable trusting your interpretation.

[@josephattwell1006]

Just a note, the Coptic, Syriac, Eritrean, Malankara, and Armenian Apostolic churches are not monophysite, they are (at least currently) what is known as Miaphysite. What is the difference? Well, monophysites held that, "Jesus Christ, who is identical with the Son, is one person and one hypostasis in one nature: divine." On that other hand, Miaphysitism holds that "in the one person of Jesus Christ, Divinity and Humanity are united in one nature, the two being united without separation, without confusion, and without alteration." It is essentially a half way point between Chalcedonianism and Monophysitism.

[@joonie8103]

Idk if that is really different to chalcedon

[@gottenspider2057]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I think Miaphysitism is a valid belief you can hold as a Catholic because, although worded differently, it’s in essence saying the same thing as Chalcedon, and Rome and the Oriental Orthodox have both declared that the whole controversy is longer a dividing issue between the two churches.

[@tekguru8]

Even in the ancient past, it was Walpole..

[@questioninconnu]

+tekguru8 okay, who is walpole ?

[@kingpopaul]

+questioninconnu I can't believe you don't even know all the original pokemon.

[@beastyteej]

+questioninconnu Everything

[@snowstorm9818]

+questioninconnu for a serious answer, just go watch their series on the south sea bubble, he's a person in it who did a lot of stuff behind the scenes, so we have a joke here about everything just secretly being his doing.

[@spreadthewordofwalpole9737]

'Jonh Blunt, we gotta go back!'

[@nothingtoseehere705]

This series deserves ten times as many views as it gets.

[@daviddelpozofiliu5556]

"And by figure this out, I mean let's excommunicate Cyril". That sounds like an Archer quote.

[@ExhaustedElox]

I can't wait to find out how all of this is Walpole's fault.

[@RunItsTheCat]

Same

[@JCDFlex]

+Exhausted Elox You, sir, just made my day *thumbs up*.

[@robertwalpole360]

+Exhausted Elox Same here. ;)

[@drakan4769]

+Exhausted Elox Easy, Christ did in fact have two separate natures: one we know as christ, the other, walpole

[@drakan4769]

Tikitiki Takataka you can't excommunicate me! because I excommunicate YOU!

[@willkatching9219]

And people complain that nerds take comic book canon arguments too seriously.

[@danielortman2534]

well, I think this might have higher stakes for believers, and if any of them are right, non believers as well.

[@danieljohnson5064]

to be fair, comic book canon has basically become its own religion

[@bodo-bing]

Just a thought, but salvation and the soul MIGHT be more important than men in long underwear. Just a thought.

[@WindFireAllThatKindOfThing]

@@bodo-bing I'm far more likely to be saved by a dude in tights than I am a cannibalism advocate in a toga from two millennia ago who could summon Pruno in bulk

[@jameswarden2691]

Thanks for doing this series. I've loved it. I'm an atheist but have always been fascinated by church history because of its impact on the world. Civilizations took these ideas seriously, and we must endeavor to see the theology through their eyes if we are to understand them. Thanks for doing that.

[@herppep]

Thank you for this series. You're at your best when you focus on the more intricate lesser known pieces of history, in my opinion.

[@rogue-taxidermy_griffin]

3:17 This picture (metaphorically) killed me. Something about a bishop being sprayed like a misbehaving dog is hilarious. 😂

[@dasrach1]

I've been really enjoying this series, and actually have used them as a teaching resource in a Church history class. I think it's worth pointing out that these ancient splits with in the Churches are not just past events locked in to history, but (from the perspective of the faithful) ongoing divisions in the body of Christ whose separation can not be accepted as a correct state of affairs. Since the second vatican council (1962-65) the Roman Catholic Church as opened itself to serious efforts to heal those splits, a task made much easier since so many of the ancient political and cultural causes have faded, and many of those denominations now have a shared concern with the suffering of the ancient Christian communities in the middle east, what Pope Francis calls "The Ecumenicism of blood." Since 1971 the Catholic Church and several of the "Monophysite" Churches have signed joint declarations that shared a single faith in Christ that they interpret in different vocabulary, and that both formulations are valid. They also acknowledge the validity of each others sacraments and clergy. www.cnewa.org/default.aspx?ID=96&pagetypeID=9&sitecode=hq&pageno=1 In 1994, a similar declaration was signed with the "Nestorian" Assyrian Orthodox church. www.cnewa.org/default.aspx?ID=94&pagetypeID=9&sitecode=hq&pageno=1 A key line- "We both recognize the legitimacy and rightness of these expressions of the same faith and we both respect the preference of each Church in her liturgical life and piety. This is the unique faith that we profess in the mystery of Christ. The controversies of the past led to anathemas, bearing on persons and on formulas. The Lord’s Spirit permits us to understand better today that the divisions brought about in this way were due in large part to misunderstandings." These declarations haven't brought full unity to the Churches, of course, but they have attempted to reach the kind of theological and doctrinal compromise that elided the councils and emperors of this series. Ecumenical organizations of the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and other ancient Churches have actually proposed a meeting in Nicea in 2035 for the 1700th anniversary of the Council. www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/05/what-does-it-mean-that-there-will-be-a-new-council-of-nicaea/371943/ The hope that so many of those emperors had of healing those schism is still uncompleted, but is closer today than ever before.

[@Xakkef]

You guys are getting a lot less flak for this series than I would have expected, and that's pretty awesome.

[@Xakkef]

+Plasm Spasm I suppose you're right, but with religion, even ancient religion, being such an inherently inflammatory topic, it wouldn't have surprised me in the least if the comments for this series were less civil than they are.

[@FlyingJetpack1]

+Plasm Spasm History is not facts, it's a number of events tied in a cronical order by the historians who ordered it. Fact is long lost from these times, all we can do is try to guess the most probable history we can imagine.

[@FlyingJetpack1]

***** But when you go down to the nitty-gritty, you will see how impossible it is to say something is with 100% certainty a fact.

[@FlyingJetpack1]

***** It's one way to look at it, but I wasn't taking it that far... I ment that stuff like some of the decisions from the councils that we record as history, might not actually be a fact for what happened there. Because usually, history writing is extremly affected by the one who writes it. "History is always written by the winners" Also takes effect in this.

[@FlyingJetpack1]

***** Guess what? those kinds of private journals have a lower chance to survive the test of time. Also these kinds of journals usually contain exaggerated truths to their side. Which makes it even trickier to figure out what happened.

[@raliaga]

Loved the Walpole flying next to the unicorn :)

[@popalupa4844]

You should do something on the Peloponnesian Wars. That'd be awesome!

[@warrioroflight8329]

^^^ I second that

[@warrioroflight8329]

Wow, let's make EC hear us ! As a Peloponnesian, I'd love to hear about this topic !

[@jellybean358]

+FlyingWalrus People vote for the next stuff on their patreon

[@TheTariqibnziyad]

+Ismail Ghafoor I excommunicate it first, you can't excommunicate it, its already excommunicated!!!

[@paulobentoftw1162]

+FlyingWalrus Why bother? It was Walpole anyway.

[@mr.incorporeal7642]

Now I want to play Crusader Kings 2...

[@UnknownGunslinger]

Hahaha same 👍

[@nilsmalmros4623]

+Adam Stansbury Deus Vult!

[@MrKangaroo123]

+Adam Stansbury praise Odin for he is the one true father and he demands a sacrifice

[@jakalordarkblood4331]

+Jackson Firebird "Allfather, we offer you this sacrifice..."

[@CascadianGal]

Play as the last of the nestorians who are exiled on the island off of eithopia. (Cannot remebered the name)

[@stacydeford9446]

I have to say, thank you for your respectful nature of the whole subject. You guys took a very respectful point of view for both sides, something I rarely see these days, from anyone on both sides. So thank you EC, you guys did great on this one.

[@timothymclean]

I'm a bit disappointed that there were only four episodes of Christian schisms...but something tells me I won't be feeling that way once the Opium War series starts.

[@benlowe1701]

You know? This series is great. You know why? Because it is history. Actually history. Not being hijacked by people of specific political or religious denominations. And even if you WERE a part of one of the denominations shown in the video, or held some of the beliefs mentioned, this video is highly insightful to understanding WHY specific denominations have these theological differences. I'd be very interested in seeing a similar series showing the splits in mainstream Islam as well. I think knowing and understanding the various differences between different religious sects would be very helpful in understanding why the Middle East is the way it is. (Though, the geopolitical division of the region would be a video series on its own.)

[@fornogoodreason551]

as a catholic i;m not sure i;m happy or upset i knew none of this

[@danstives]

It's good to learn.

[@HxH2011DRA]

I'd be upset

[@Mr.Feckless]

+ForNoGoodReason Doesn't matter, except that it is entertaining.

[@acassiopeia6439]

+Mfgcasa I'm not a Christian, so that probably colours my opinion on the matter, but surely it's both? Clearly the history of the religion had a huge impact on how it stands today and why there are so many denominations, so a proper understanding of Christianity needs a historical background, or so I would think.

[@samuelniesen8929]

+ForNoGoodReason There's nothing wrong with both. History is often an murky mess and things are all cleanly good or bad. The biggest thing, though, would be shame in current christian teachings for not teaching history well, as this is some important information to at least know about.

[@FiauraTheTankGirlGamer]

Very nice job filling all this in, can't wait to hear more about early Christian Feuds.

[@Veshgard]

Unfortunately, by focusing too much on the abstract theology side of things, the video doesn't do a good job of explaining the very real differences of beliefs between the 3 sides. Let me see if I can explain them a little better: Nestorianism - Jesus Christ was two beings in one body. Two separate minds, a human named Jesus and the MIND OF GOD, inhabited the same body. Chalcedonianism - Jesus Christ was one being with one mind, and He was God, but at the same time He felt human desires, temptations, emotions, and urges. Jesus could get hungry, thirsty, tired, sad, etc. And He was genuinely tempted to sin, but always overcame this temptation. Monophysitism - Jesus Christ was one being with one mind, and He was God, and He did NOT feel human desires, temptations, emotions, or urges. Jesus could eat and drink, but He never got hungry or thirsty, and never needed food or water to survive. Most importantly, He never felt any desire to sin.

[@filo1243]

Monophysitism believe that Jesus has a one nature of two natures he is fully divine fully human the two natures are united together without separation and without affecting each other or one takes over another so he could feel all the human desires and he felt all the insults and passions on the cross so he paid our humanity debt as human but a simple limited human cannot ransom all humanity but because he is united with unlimited god “he is the god’s word incarnate” now he can save all humanity and pay the price of their sins which is death

[@romeostojka7232]

Chalcedonism doesn’t teach Christ was tempted to sin in a sense Christ had sinful inclinations since he was born without original sin

[@ploopploop9569]

I'm a historian, this is really accurate! Love it!

[@miguelfernandodelmoral2641]

@Diego Alvarez Wrong! This is actually skewed from a chalcedonian western perspective. True monophysites believed the divine overwhelmed the human. But the churches that are called no-chalcedonians were never monophysites, they are miaphysites. They believe the Word of God was made flesh, the one son of God incarnate perfect in humanity, perfect in divinity, without mixing or confusion. Chlacedonians believe the Son of God is of two natures, miaphysites say the one Son of God is in two natures

[@tylermundy7985]

The chalcedonian’s didn’t believe that Christ was half God and half man, but that he was fully God and fully man. Not half and half, but 100% and 100%. This is still the orthodox Christian belief in the present.

[@Ramiobomb]

And in the Catholic Church?

[@RequiemDefired]

I can't believe they fucked up the definition so badly. Even though I know they're soulless atheists.

[@justinthomas7222]

@@Ramiobomb that meant orthodox with a lowercase o, meaning, traditional or "right-thinking." It's not "Orthodox" as in pertaining to the Orthodox Churches.

[@justinthomas7222]

"Orthodox" & "orthodox" mean two different things, much like "Catholic" & "catholic" do. I am an "orthodox" Christian who believes in the "catholic" church but am neither "Orthodox" nor "Catholic."

[@Ramiobomb]

@@justinthomas7222 I know what you mean, but what are the real difference between Orthodox and Catholics except for the Pope, and who's closer to the original Chandelorian church?

[@Kakashi_Ramanov]

You are just one beautiful story teller... Thanks a million for being unbiased...

[@RothurThePaladin]

You're excommunicated And you're excommunicated! AND YOU'RE EXCOMMUNICATED!

[@Mercure250]

+Justin Mcfield you're*

[@dakotahoelscher445]

+Mercure250 :^T

[@RothurThePaladin]

d. hoelscher :^U

[@Ravinar]

+Justin Mcfield NO YOU'RE EXCOMMUNICATED!

[@HotCoals]

+Justin Mcfield EVERYBODY GETS EXCOMMUNICATED!

[@ironsheep9867]

The Benny Hill Theme playing over the second half of the video going from 4:05 is GOLD!

[@FunkyStudent]

ok all I got from this was... christ was human and a spirit, half spirit and half human, a mesh of spirit and human and excommunications all around.

[@FunkyStudent]

***** oh look, an edgy athiest has appeared. Should've sprayed on my super repel.

[@krim7]

+Wizaed Magz Basically true. The problem people had with Nestorianism was that since Jesus had aspects (Divine and Human), then only the human part died on the cross. A human dying cannot wash away the sins of all humanity. Also, it made Mary weird because she was only the mother of his mortal form and not his divine form.

[@FunkyStudent]

***** thx for educating my simple mortal mind.

[@cameraman502]

+Wizaed Magz Basically Christ is a fully divine and fully human but that these are united into one in the person of Jesus. Look up Hypostatic Union for the a more fleshed out version.

[@ricojes]

+Wizaed Magz And Walpole.

[@NYUJEW]

Extra Credits, thank you so so much for covering this incredibly important yet little understood chapter of history. Excellent production, as always.

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

This is such a mess, that I guess that no one in this council expects the Spanish Inquisition ! (which is a much simpler way of solving the matter)

[@EikiStan23]

But no one expects the Spanish Inquisition As there weapon is fear, fear and surprise... Oh wait that's two weapons let me come in again

[@forzaacmilan36]

No one expects the spanish inquistion

[@antoniolewis1016]

+scarfacemperor NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!!

[@forzaacmilan36]

Antonio Lewis too late

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

Khorps I only speak with the emperor

[@CazMeister]

5:01 There he is!

[@jellybean358]

+Caz a new book series "where's walpole?"

[@robertwalpole360]

+Caz There I am!

[@fristi61]

+albert arnold That is the most genius idea I've seen all day. It could be a variety of cataclysmic or otherwise tragic events that occurred throughout history, with Walpole hidden somewhere clever. I would legitimately put down money for this.

[@topnotchshinobi]

+fristi61 Indeed, Walpole has continually established himself as the omnipresent chessmaster of Extra History, causing or preventing pivotal events as he saw fit. However, I doubt he went unopposed; which historical figure (from any era of our choosing) would have been a fitting choice to become Walpole's arch nemesis/rival?

[@rovelfox7832]

+Michael Shan (Sushi Ozpin) his nemesis would be The Doctor

[@waffleless]

This was an awesome chapter. I think it is one of my favourites, just behind the Punic Wars and the South Sea Bubble.

[@DonnaBrooks]

I want to commend you on producing this excellent series. You present the facts of what happened in a way that both treats the people involved as real people with human personalities and flaws while not denigrating anyone's beliefs. We need more of the history of the Church presented in the context of other world events, in such an easy to understand and remember way, that neither proselytizes nor mocks the people or their beliefs. Well done!!

[@grfrjiglstan]

You know, usually with this series it's at least self-explanatory either who the main character is, or who I should root for. Here, it's just utter pettiness and fine print everywhere.

[@timothymclean]

+grfrjiglstan Welcome to religious history.

[@marvelfannumber1]

+grfrjiglstan Welcome to real life! Where everyone is some type of asshole and where there are shades of grey everywhere.

[@Nerdnumberone]

+grfrjiglstan That is history for ya. This is actually par for the course, but it IS easier to pick a side when there is a definitive winner and loser. Also remember that this wasn't petty to THEM. This was a question of religion. A question which, if answered incorrectly, could be the difference between heaven or hell. Salvation or damnation. Eternal bliss, or eternal suffering and not JUST for you, but for everyone who you cannot convince to take the right path. I'm not religious so I agree it was petty and seems ridiculous, but to true believers, this meant EVERYTHING. Plus there was all the political power and influence at stake impacting their decision, whether consciously or unconsciously.

[@gottenspider2057]

Athanasius and Cyril of Alexandria are canonized saints in the Catholic and Orthodox churches and considered saints by most Protestants (so like 90-95% of Christians), if that makes any difference.

[@A_A_N_C_]

so far this is the best episode in the series. Well made, packed with info and entertaining words and pictures. Keep up the good work! :)

[@Lostmc660]

Can you do a series on the split between Sunni and Shia muslims

[@LesterRamos]

+Muhammad Maitla To do that, wouldn't they have to go into detail about the Prophet Muhammed and the dispute as to who succeeded whom?

[@acronach]

This would be interesting. The whole early Islamic empire deserves a series, because they did a lot. Would also like to see them do a brief history of the Safavid empire, because I hear about them only when people talk about the Ottomans.

[@yotamkaspi8508]

+Lester Ramos For that they'd have to draw Muhammed, and well...we all know how well that goes...

[@LesterRamos]

It's true. This is a very touchy subject. I think not even they could do it justice.

[@Lostmc660]

+mr box they don't have to draw the Prophet they could use his name in Arabic

[@PineconeSunset]

5:01 I like how Isaac Newton is in the fantasy land where everything is solved, despite of course not existing for like more than a millenium later, just to show how crazy the idea of the factions getting along is

[@quegames4786]

A beggar was aloud in the imperial palace? Who did they hire as guards?

[@Mercure250]

+Fuyh Wqe Poor peasants.

[@natoman123]

mayhap seen as an act of mercy and charity in accordance to the teachings of Christendom.

[@LarsPallesen]

no, he was allowed in the imperial palace

[@brucenatelee]

I started laughing when you technically said everybody just kicked each other out, and showed the emperor just sitting there like "fuck it."

[@GideonGleeful95]

Idea for a series: Right, you know how in the cold war we had 2 superpowers who both had a network of allies and enemies? So did the early medieval/late classical world: Sassanian Persia and the Byzentine Empire. This conflict has sort of been discussed, but I would love to see one which fully explored how all the allies and enemies interacted, with Axum, the Ghassanids and the Gokturks on the side of the Eastern Romans and the Avars, the Lakhmids and Himyar on the side of the Sassanians. It would be great to see how the conflict evolved over the centuries, and how it left both empires vulnerable to either complete destruction or losing half their land in the 7th century, as the weakened powers faced a new and entirely unexpected threat.

[@hanssmirnov9946]

You're giving me very little to write about, EH. This was well done, as I am characteristically having to tell you. Something I should mention about Monophysites, on the subject, is that it was a lot like Arianism. They were actually implying that Christ was neither human nor divine, a sort of demigod. This, like Arianism, has some very serious ramifications, and so it was a big issue. It wasn't a small nitpick, but a hugely important matter. Under the circumstances, it actually went surprisingly well. Thanks again for making this series. It has been a lot of fun to delve into this subject. The episode on writing should be similarly interesting.

[@Vanalovan]

This shit is why I'm a religious studies major ... That and I also like taking a really long time to pay off debt

[@garouHH]

+Vanalovan So you could not just point out the points of doctrine and put labels on them, but also explain their ramifications, so that we could understand why people thought that this was important?

[@Vanalovan]

+garouHH In a nutshell, yes. Although the reason why people usually become so violent is that these doctrinal points very quickly add fuel to identity politics and the Christian schisms area really good example of this as Dan highlighted in his video. Keeping these situations from developing is usually reliant on factors outside of religion (for example poverty rates but because this is a two way relationship it's worth noting that many religious institutions have some organization that affects these outside factors, like charities). Long story short, it's a lot like how people get hyped up over sports. The religion is really very arbitrary in all this.

[@jakalordarkblood4331]

+Vanalovan Funny thing is, back in the day they also got all hyped over sports. BLUES RULE BITCHES!

[@Veshgard]

But in Khosrau's Better Antioch, the Blues _always_ lose. U mad bro?

[@jakalordarkblood4331]

Veshgard Oooh, low blow!

[@avatarwan5824]

You get an excommunication You get an excommunication You get an excommunication You get an excommunication You get an excommunication You get an excommunication Everyone gets an excommunication

[@keymaster16]

man i didn't know you guys added a comedy section to extra history, these are some of the most amusing things I've watched, and thats including the cat videos.

[@DemitriVladMaximov]

I'm sorry but this is just absolutely hilarious to me. You would think that at least one person would stand up and say, "Lord I don't mean to be rude, but could you please be kind enough to explain what the real situation is because none of us seem to get the whole picture." Yes that would probably take a true miracle to have someone humble themselves enough in this mess to actually ask God, but if you don't ask then who's to really blame for Him not giving an answer?

[@Msoulwing]

+DemitriVladMaximov You really assume no one asked for answer in prayer? Or that there weren't people on each side who thought they'd been given a sign that they were correct?

[@charlie4farlie]

+DemitriVladMaximov Something that doesn't exist can't really answer their questions, so it wouldn't do anything.

[@n3v3rn0wn]

+DemitriVladMaximov The way stuff is going it seems pretty likely that all the people that were playing for power just would have ignored that D:

[@korbinmalachi370]

+n3v3rn0wn People were, and still are, using these kinds of shenanigans for power. I mean, look at any ruling theological/ideological/whatever-thoughtform-head-canon-stuff organization today that _supposedly_ represents or holds sway over a country or a huge population. They're probably not just beating other people who aren't their base head-canon-creed with their sandals, they're beating each other with said sandals too. Or with their wands, their carpets, beads, singing-bowls, books, bongs, keyboard, guns, knives, laws, or what-have-you. And even if they're not actually the silent sane majority, they'll probably the ones acting out and the most vocal because it's just another power elbow-shuffle for them to rise above everybody else. *Then* they get dibs on that silent-majority because they got the backing of whoever or whatever holds the biggest head-bashing club in the room. Anybody who disagrees with them afterwards will just be considered as _acceptable losses_ to these people.

[@DemitriVladMaximov]

Sapphire Crook Well Jesus did pay the entrance fee to a city so that he wouldn't offend the rulers so yea that is a possibility.

[@thecomprehensionhub4612]

I've been fact checking your videos while watching them and they are overwhelming accurate to the real history. I give you the slow clap for the way you simplify this rather complex (and generally bias) topic.

[@rofl0rblades]

This series is fantastic. Its incredible how you are always able to deliver this complex matter to us laymen. Still looking forward to the equally entertaining "Lies" for this series though ;)

[@MarcMagma]

If this would happen nowerdays for the first time, channels with the focus on drama propably would have found a gold mine.

[@ThePa1riot]

Well, I got a lot more questions for my Deacon uncle next time I see him. Thanks Dan, James, and co. Also, wow, and people think folks *today* are easily offended! "You disagree with me about a guy we both think was divine just on the nature of exactly how he was? I excommunicate you!" "Jokes on you I excommunicated you yesterday!" Never since grade school have I seen that word used so much. XD

[@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts]

What grade school did you go to?

[@Stephen-Fox]

With the way you delivered that "Wrong again" line about 6:25 I got very strong Bob Hale vibes...

[@toxictoz2042]

next you should try the muslim "sanawat al fitna" or the conflict years i swear this shit looks like some IRL game of thrones . it's really interesting

[@korbinmalachi370]

+Toxic Toz You _really_ want the comment section to burst into flames now don't you? ;p

[@toxictoz2042]

+Korbin Malachi lets wait and see bro for i will stand against the waves of keyboard warriors

[@toxictoz2042]

+John von Shepard awww how nice is that ! tank you i appreciate

[@antoniolewis1016]

+Toxic Toz There's so much fun to be had in Muslim history. Al hajjaj, the ruler of Iraq who said "I see these heads are ripe for the picking" The conquests of iberia and india The spread of Islam into southeast Asia without any definite armies ALGEBRA and mathematics and Algorithms Setting the foundations for Renaissance science and philosophy of science and Avicenna who wrote the original Canon. There's already been Suleiman's story, though, but maybe these stories would be nice?

[@toxictoz2042]

+Antonio Lewis after the death of the prophet some mad stuff happened with the four califs the karbala massacre the omeyad dynasty it's really interesting if you want to understand the actual situation in that clusterfuck we call middle east . saddly our history is brighter than our present ...

[@SedDelMar]

Just plowed through the four chapters on the early schisms. Brilliant! Thanks much!

[@carlose4314]

Chalcedonian is not half and half, but two natures perfectly united in one person.

[@Luxalpa]

"But what happens after excommunication?" "You don't know? That's when excommunication begins."

[@Armaggedon185]

Damn you, Walpole!

[@MrKrmel]

+Shogun Banzai Was wondering the same thing. Surely Walpole will come up in this series at some point.

[@Svartalf14]

Thanks a lot, that bit about Chalcedon and the Branching of christianity taught me something I did not even know I didn't.

[@polandballhistorian8537]

“Rivals” yeah, the byzantines were holding off the Persians, Huns, and visigoths with no problem while solving a religious dispute and west Rome could barely hold its own spiritual capital, Rome, against a foreign general with a lot of ambition. It’s more like calling America and Iran “bitter rivals”

[@tracihk9964]

I am fairly certain I would fail my Byzantine history class without these information packed videos. So grateful and way more entertaining than my professor.

[@isocryd]

This is why the Flying Spaghetti Monster rose to power...

[@greenrocket23]

+isocryd And given the way things are going I would say that lot more weird and nonsensical things are about to happen in the near future.

[@Ostentatiousnessness]

“Hey guys, I know what can fix this: MOAR COUNCILS!” - Several Emperors

[@gma5607]

Okay, real talk. When you comment "Wow that's really stupid." or something of the sort you are turning off your brain to stroke your ego. When you decide that things that clearly mattered to people don't you are killing the context of these events in you mind and you are not engaged with the material. When you study history you have to take your opinions on people's feeling and your desires on what you want them to be and where you want things to go and put them in a box for a while or you just end up looking for things that fit into your narrative. If you can't respect people's motivations how can ever hope to understand them? How will you craft anything but a caricature of the people and societies you are examining? This is not an exercise in making yourself feel good about living in 2016 so don't try make it that.

[@AmariFukui]

+Captain Carthage To me the conflict goes against what it means to be christian, to love and tolerate enemies.

[@SuperHipsterGamer]

+Barney Collington Then you should proberly realize that: "What means to be christian" has much more to do with the times and culture you're living in, than a divine perpetual existing truth.

[@AmariFukui]

Snobby Gamer Absolutely, what i said was my own interpretation.

[@gma5607]

conan263 Your arrogance is as palpable as it is detestable, you are not any more intelligent then any historical figure by virtue of when you were born. Do not mistake our accumulated knowledge nor your ability to access the collected wealth of all human musings from your desk for some inherent value you possess. To write off rational, intelligent and most importantly real people is the exact thing I am railing against. They're not just "stupid", they're people who lived and died believing things, things that mattered to them and for good reasons. Your lack of empathy does not invalidate their lives and it certainly does not enrich your's with fresh perspective.

[@jesterleafnose798]

+Captain Carthage I dunno. These people fought over imaginary all-powerful entities just so they could properly pretend to live forever. That seems hella stupid, man.

[@jeova0sanctus0unus]

well, extra history certainly is a good way to start the evening.

[@Just.Kidding]

there's a couple pretty big mistakes here: the monophysites believed christ had ONE nature - the divine. the miaphysites (which are sometimes erroneously called monophysites) believed christ had one nature that was simultaneously both divine and mortal.

[@mser6173]

I just wanna say thank you so much for these videos! Your Channel was super helpful for two of my University exams (Global History and Religious Studies) keep putting out great content! I would really have struggled without this channel

[@WildBillCox13]

"What we have here is, failure to excommunicate . . . "

[@WoobooRidesAgain]

6:53 No wonder Justinian wanted to repair the schism; apparently his left hand went to a different church than the rest of his body.

[@anders_x3]

essentially the console wars in ancient rome

[@Dontmindtheusername]

That made so much sense that I had to watch it again. And again.

[@antoniolewis1016]

Here I was, thinking the trinity is complicated. Turns out it's a walk in the park compared to this stuff!!

[@mohanafy9264]

Antonio Lewis I don't belive in the trenity

[@scottlangdonburrows5857]

This was magnificent thank you so much for this

[@HxH2011DRA]

6:35 what in the undescribable fuck

[@DuelScreen]

+The Hunter x Hunter 2011 Dickriding Association The history of Christianity is complicated.

[@bulshock1221]

+The Hunter x Hunter 2011 Dickriding Association Yep. Looks about right. There's something like 30k different Christian sects at this point.

[@DuelScreen]

Bulshock That 30,000 statistic is not accurate. At best, it's a misunderstanding between the term "denomination" and "independent organization". The real number may be as small as 40. Source: theway21stcentury.wordpress.com/2012/11/23/how-many-christian-denominations-worldwide/ The differences between most denominations are minor. None violate what we call the fundamentals of the faith (the virgin birth, Jesus' sacrificial death, etc.). Otherwise they would be heretical sects and would not be included.

[@sterlingfelker6295]

I'm learning so much about my religion's history right now, it's awesome.

[@ramystoker1254]

That's why Christ gave the authority to st peter .. which is passed to his successors who alone are able to make decisions in the matter of faith and settle conflicts .. Jesus knew that st peter's successors will not focus on differences but rather unity .. and btw the excommunication of the other orthodox churches is now removed and we as catholics can recieve sacraments in the orthodox churches if there isn't any catholic church near us and all the churches will be re-united again .. we all know it's just a matter of time.

[@time_for_toast4922]

This helps me out a bit, as I am going through Basic New Testament Church History in my school. They explain the seven church ages that John spoke about In Revelation.

[@jacob_carter_is_batman]

ok so we Christians now just have do deal with God's not dead but those pepole had to deal with this crap? God, this is insane

[@jacob_carter_is_batman]

+UseCodeKeem are you that much of a thin skin mindless drone athesit to say that when relgion is even said man and you call us brainwashed

[@CasshernSinz1613]

+Jacob Carter Chill Dude, he's a troll. He's been popping up at almost every comment lol

[@jacob_carter_is_batman]

Casshern​ yea I know I was trying to see if I could get him to tick with the whole brainwashed thing

[@CasshernSinz1613]

Fair enough. Go on. lol

[@jacob_carter_is_batman]

Thanks

[@kaapdominee]

Really Great! Enjoyed sharing this as an introduction to my class in Cape Town, South Africa.

[@AGuyWithAChannel]

Theodosius suddenly dies! Who could have possibly- It was Walpole.

[@antiheroicstudios4534]

Extra History is officially my favourite KZbin series. Would you please do an installment on Ptolemaic Egypt, it would make a great addition!

[@gizmorazaar]

Minor correction: Monophysites believe Christ was only divine by nature. Miaphysites are the ones you mistake for monophysites in the video.

[@ferretyluv]

Miaphysitism is for all intents and purposes the same as Monophysitism.