Early Output Is The Key To Fluency? | Interview with Clowdy Howdy

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Follow @reysuing and @razatalks on twitter if you want to reach native level

[@MagnaAnima]

Amount of quality time spent with the language is probably the most important indicator of success with foreign language study. Early or late output is a variable that’s probably less important.

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

Definitely, but I will say that you do need to practice speaking to get better at speaking

[@MagnaAnima]

@@KoreKaraPodcast in total agreement, I think there is something to be said about the type of speaking practice. May experience over many hours of iTalki is that is sometimes doesn’t simulate reality well (live conversation without pretext of learning or immersion).

[@Chloe-ds9jf]

​@@KoreKaraPodcast No one denies that lol. Late output doesn't mean it'll be harder for you to get better at speaking, and people prefer doing it because it's easier to do with vocab/grammar/pitch/etc knowledge under your belt first.

[@ClowdyHowdy]

Thanks for having me on guys! It was an honor to be a guest.

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

It was super fun! Thanks for coming on our podcast

[@koreaken9076]

Hosts: Are you fluent? Clowdy: 10 minute word salad about feelings. Simply embarrassing.

[@Learninglotsoflanguages]

The interesting thing about immersion, I think Cloudy brings up a great point, we just don't know exactly how we learn things. Our brain is acquiring it subconsciously. After failing for years to learn more than super beginner Korean stuff for years, I did an immersion approach since last May and it was wild how I would just made such huge jumps. I'd read something and think, "I know this word, or this sentence, but why do I know it?" Lol. Some things i would know. I had an anki deck, but in the beginning, it didn't do anything for me, until I added in the immersion. It only worked to pair it with reading, and listening so I could see that word in the deck in context. This month I've been surprised as I watch youtube videos in Korean, I just can follow and understand well. I read a book from the library and read without much issue and followed the story. It's wild because I can't really identify exactly how I grew, but all I know is before last may, all I could know where random words and basic phrases, and now I can write stories, have conversations, watch videos, and read books.

[@KoreanPatch]

I've gotta say, I've output from very very early on, and it hasn't messed up my pronunciation at all. I understand opposition to it, but I don't think it's axiom. Great interview!

[@Ginkorea]

This really is the truth.

[@papercliprain3222]

When Krashen talked about not outputting early he was talking about not forcing people to output things before they felt ready AND the silent period he mentioned that was like three months tops but somehow that go distilled by the immersion learning community as dont talk for like two years before saying anything and it’s kind of bizarre. And Antimoon which AJATT sprang forth from was a website in English on how people can improve their English, meaning that whoever read it was looking to polish an already high intermediate level, it wasn’t meant for someone that didn’t know twenty words yet to listen to stuff that they don’t at all understand. I also think you made a good point about how what works for some people won’t work for others. There’s a lot of people out there that learned a certain way but use that prescriptively to say that everyone must learn the same way they did. Anyway this is already long but I definitely want to learn Korean as well, every Kdrama I have ever seen has made me cry my eyes out they are on another level lol.

[@larrybardwell8461]

Well we all acquired our native language the same way and it worked. So i don't understand how we all learn language differently. Because we all learned our native roughly the same way. But that's the whole idea behind the extreme immersion approach. To try to somewhat replicate what a natives did. To acquire their language growing up. After a few years a native kid does try to speak. But the majority of the time is spent listening constantly immersed all day everyday. Gradually a kid starts to talk more and more over the years.

[@papercliprain3222]

@@larrybardwell8461 I didn’t mean it as immersion vs not immersion, some people learn through mainly listening and think that everyone should, when some people are in it to read. But immersion is the way but there’s so much variation even in that from books to KZbin to anime to dramas, and finding a system that works for you is important because even within maximum immersion there’s a lot of ways you can go with it.

[@larrybardwell8461]

@@papercliprain3222 very true

[@Paul-yk7ds]

Ok, so the title was clickbait. Nobody claimed anything like that or even discussed it as a possibility in this episode.

[@NotSatan]

This was a great episode, Clowdy is the OG Number 1 Korean immersion learning youtuber. He has built so much of the current Korean immersion learning communities as well as the immersion learning space in general.

[@stefanhansen5882]

This was great! One question: At 15:14 he mentions something and MIA (Mass Immersion Approach). What is the other thing he says? It sounds like Ajak or something. Thanks!

[@Emperorerror]

Would be interested to hear more of Clowdy's thoughts on demographic differences between different language learners, especially with respect to a wide range of languages. Seems like he has a unique perspective as someone so involved in the community.

[@NukeMarine]

Early output is probably more than fine if it's based on some audio reference (something to shadow). Even better if there's a native willing and able correct the big errors (shoutout to iTalki as the best rent-a-native speaker app). There's also the problem of making up idioms/phrases, or directly translating idioms from your native language, into the target that can become habits. This is likely a problem with people that don't do a lot immersion, but wanted to communicate. The lack of audio references is probably not an issue with Japanese learners (most learning sources have audio available), but I did have one native Japanese student whose mom practiced English with her at home with zero native English references. Super motivated student who knew the correct answers and was excited to give it, but her pronunciation was the worst of all the students. I've no doubt if her and her mom just watched some English cartoons together and practiced shadowing, a lot of problems would smooth over. Beyond that, the advanced students (sometimes kids, sometimes adults) don't need English lessons so much as speech coaching. One in particular is working for an hour on a five minute speech or office memo from her job, ending with my recording of it so she can practice shadowing with it. Even at her level, I still work on the L's/R's or Wuu's along with articles or prepositions being used incorrectly or not at all. Plus she shadows NetFlix or TedX Talks.

[@SevenStopGaming]

The natives are shocked 😲

[@Music-pc2we]

You guys lookin fly! Also, do you guys reccomend vocab or sentence cards?

[@humanbean3]

Target vocab on the front, sentence on the back!

[@mukimuki123]

Clowdy Howdy: Early Output is key Meanwhile, Matt vs Japan: *WHY DO YOU EXIST?!!*

[@humanbean3]

As a fellow inhabitant of the produce area. I approve

[@isaac_desu4923]

Now this is epic 😎

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

😎

[@chsinskyy]

3:20 ah yes, a man of taste, red velvet has a great discography.

[@Nighteye88]

I agree with clowdy here the graphs and all that are cool and all but are you actually enjoying what you're doing with language learning? Although, I think the Japanese language learning community is a little more elitist at times than other language learning communities and that's a bit of a shame. A lot of the reason he listens to this podcast is the same as why I do. Both of you guys are cool for getting people on and hearing everyone's experiences with language learning. I also want to learn Korean so I've thrown it in with my Japanese learning lately. 파이팅! 頑張りましょう! 😆

[@kogenmurpho24]

raza lookin sharp as always 😌

[@languageoclock]

Especially loved the galaxy brain vibes radiating through the screen in final 5 or so minutes :D

[@harrywater8305]

Clowdy is legend.

[@Channelname876]

nice banana filter :)

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

It was bananas

[@oojiman]

My bald brethren

[@KoreKaraPodcast]

The secret sauce

[@PatChatGC]

Smashed the like button for that amazing mustache

[@aapolars]

osu gamers represent

[@Emperorerror]

Would be interested to hear more of Clowdy's thoughts on demographic differences between different language learners, especially with respect to a wide range of languages. Seems like he has a unique perspective as someone so involved in the community.