Final Fantasy VII Rebirth - Spoiler Mode w/ Maximilian Dood

[@ApexCalibre]

0:00: ⚔️ Discussion on Final Fantasy VII Rebirth spoiler mode with special guest Max and Huber. 16:22: ⚔️ Challenge of balancing completionist tendencies with pacing due to high quality side content in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. 31:43: 🎮 Enhanced dungeon exploration in FF7 Rebirth adds excitement and variety to gameplay. 47:12: ⚔️ Discussion on the game's Dynamic mode and its design for challenging gameplay in Final Fantasy VII Remake. 1:02:46: 🎮 Impressed by seamless map transitions and lack of loading screens in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. 1:18:27: 🎮 Exploration of expanded lore in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, focusing on Shinra's development and creation of the black Materia. 1:33:45: 🎮 Analysis of the plot twist in Final Fantasy VII Remake where players are led to believe they can save a character. 1:49:50: 🌀 Exploration of unreliable narration and multiverse concept in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. 2:05:11: 🎮 Revelation of Rufus Shinra's manipulation and creation of Avalanche leads to upcoming major plot twist in Final Fantasy VII. 2:21:08: ⏳ Concept of infinite timelines converging into energy is emphasized, with the insignificance of individual timelines highlighted. 2:37:58: ⚔️ Cloud experiences manipulation by Sephiroth, leading to dark and unreliable narration involving his deceased girlfriend. 2:54:56: 🎮 Cloud obtains the black Materia and is warned about manipulation, while Aerith's absence raises suspicion. 3:11:20: 🌟 Speculation on the existence of a good Sephiroth working with Cloud in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. 3:26:57: 🎮 Excitement builds as characters face challenges and a pivotal moment approaches in Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. 3:42:51: 🎮 Speculation on the title of the next Final Fantasy VII game and its storyline involving reclaiming. Recap by Tammy AI

[@RoseTsuki]

Thank you!!!

[@WackoWambo]

Pin this!

[@thejanusproject32]

Goddamn, you are the real MVP.

[@TheGabrielSevero123]

You’re a god bro

[@Maverick.D.]

You are the chosen one.

[@colinnixon7739]

I love that max is not worried about being right or wrong. Hes just having fun

[@SH1NK1R01]

It helps that he keeps being right.

[@blackroomrob4205]

​@SH1NK1R01 it's like Dan making it to SFV all over again. Max just keeps saying shit and it ends up accidentally coming true 😂

[@Gumshoe08]

As we all should. The only huge turn off in this franchise is those og purists.

[@adamhe3387]

@@Gumshoe08And those toxic shippers that harass Nojima on Twitter, bunch of psychos I swear

[@dream431ca]

It's WAY more fun being wrong :)

[@FastTheSonic]

3:29:10 The plane will break down over the mountain, they'll have to climb up, and Cloud will have a vision of Zack saying "Me? Gongaga" and it'll be game of the century

[@TheProxy26]

Sephiroth waiting patiently for Max to finish the game before enacting his master plan was my favorite part of Rebirth

[@devak45167]

I’m waiting, Max…

[@Flashchocobo]

I killed her max… who is she?

[@inunarugo]

Quick someone make a meme out of this

[@dr.edwardrichtofen365]

Max is our universe’s Cloud CONFIRMED

[@jmason0622]

Cloud, stop doing sidequests... stop playing with your bird, Cloud... stop playing cards and shit, Cloud... ... DONBEI

[@simonr344]

See you all for the 8 hour spoiler mode in 2027

[@billyhuang]

Seven Hours 💪

[@hairyson94]

Seven hours until the end... but what will you do with it?

[@Dis2good]

@@hairyson94I’m waiting Cloud……..

[@zachm2331]

More like 2028

[@WackoWambo]

Needs bosman back for it

[@theextracrispycolonel9502]

"Be distraught! I just killed Aerith, who may or may not be the woman you love most depending on your previous actions!" "Nuh uh." "...The f*ck you mean 'Nuh uh?'"

[@r3gret2079]

Lmfao

[@phootaphan9166]

Cloud: "Nuh-uh." Sephiroth: *PRESSURED* *STAGGERED*

[@kayladaly8378]

Critical hit.

[@CustardBustard]

@@phootaphan9166 I heard the bass in your comment

[@michaelslowmin]

Bros before hoes. Cloud knows his real love is Barret. He don't want Zack's sloppy seconds.

[@jb9369]

Another game mechanic for story telling thing - in the jenova fight at the end she has an attack thats called something like mourning wail, it knocks the party back away from her, but cloud is immune to it. He's immune because he's not in mourning, he doesn't believe aerith is dead.

[@levitastic]

hoo nice catch

[@MagikarpUsedOmnisplash]

Good job, man. 👍

[@EustaceCerviart]

I was pushed away by it, you can dodge it if you stand really close to her backside

[@agamersinsanity]

never thought of that.. O.o

[@blazeknight2629]

@@EustaceCerviartyeah, also limit through it since the party gains limit immediately

[@Riku2005]

Max's storytelling is on another level, you just get gripped into it by his excitement regardless of his theory being right or wrong.

[@RubMySweatyThighs]

Just the tip relax

[@riddif]

I think we can say most of his theory and collective theory is actually come true on this Rebirth.

[@syahmioziar5290]

​@@riddifi didn't see any of his stream but i read it is only half that came true.

[@njaisinghaninjl]

Honestly his theory here of Aerith being dead is a bit off. The last shot of the game is Aerith saying goodbye, there's no way in hell that happens in Cloud's head.

[@The3rownie]

I think Zack will play a vital role in restoring Cloud’s mind because Cloud was sick so he wasn’t able to save Aerith. Marlene had already predicted her death because of this. That’s why Marlene pleads with Zack and says you gotta help him get better so he can save her from the scary man and it’s why she’s still asleep

[@alanbyard]

How cool would it be if the seventh infantry that you became friends with turned out to be the airman that operate the Highwind when you steal it?

[@timogul]

They're gonna pull an Avatar!

[@War624]

That'd be sick, and honestly seems highly probable. They're definitely going to come back in the next game.

[@KolmManison]

Oh that'd be a good payoff for them. I'm sticking to Max's predictions/hopes from previous videos that EVERYONE except the shinra higher ups are gonna help us in our kaiju hunt.

[@snowrider9018]

I actually theorized that when the men and Cloud departed. I’m like “dude these guys gotta either help steal the Highwind or operate it” either way, we’re gonna see these guys again, the devs made them too significant

[@kotm_6078]

That’s a good idea

[@ThrowbackGaming1]

WE'VE WAITED FOUR YEARS FOR THIS

[@nicholasbeutler3126]

THE FOUR YEAR COOK

[@dice_for_death]

~FOUR MORE YEARS AND WE'LL BE WARM AND FULL

[@Joelio8701]

So true!

[@RougeMephilesClone]

An hour for each year.

[@furrybproductions]

I'm still waiting 🤣🤣🤣

[@LaserRamon]

This man tasted the 30 year stew that’s been cooking and asked for seconds.

[@ElPsyKongroo]

I thought it was 25th anniversary

[@flip8966]

No its 27 years ​@ElPsyKongroo

[@pascalschetelat7198]

Aerith big song to Cloud : "Promises to keep, we won't ever need" Aerith at the end : "You promise ?!"

[@Imps603]

OH BOY HERE WE GO, TIME TO PULL OUT THE TINFOIL HAT, RED YARNS, AND THE CORKBOARD

[@pr0newbie]

One man's tinfoil hat is another man's thinking cap

[@JMsolidsnake]

Oh god im getring Magnus Archives flashbacks 😂

[@PasticheofSkin]

Jenova is the Blood queen, Aerith is is the Emerald Sorcerous. Jenova is gathering all her pawns, her servants, her power and control. Cloud her dark Knight etc.

[@chrisdaughen5257]

I definitely thought that too, but by the end of the card arc, the Blood Queen only feels like a parallel to Jenova and is her own person.

[@warden8508]

I was disappointed the final Shadowblood Queen match didn’t lead to a real battle

[@The3rownie]

Well the card game itself was introduced for a reason so I’m sure it holds some symbolic relevance similar to the loveless play

[@timogul]

The Shadowblood queen card is empowered by the harm it inflicts on others. The ideal ways to counter the Shadowblood Queen deck is to embrace the "harm=power" philosophy yourself.

[@ShirouBrando]

​@chrisdaughen5257 see I went to that same thought but then in the cetra temple you find a mural with the Emerald Sorcerer and the Blood Queen and underneath the blood queen is LifeBringer JENOVA and the Queen is coming out of JENOVA I think the Emerald sorcerer is the goddess at the end of CC (aka Minerva)

[@botanbutton]

2:24:40 - YES! I feel so validated! I thought the exact same thing! Cloud is the master of his illusionary world. He erased THAT from his mind, even the water burial. He's done it before; I have no doubt he can do it again. The third game is definitely gonna include putting that truth back together in his mind. Tifa's role is bigger than ever.

[@callmeehnova]

Can anybody explain the scene when imaginary Aerith couch Nanaki and Nanaki felt her touch. How is that possible if her only existence is in Cloud's head?

[@botanbutton]

@@callmeehnova Honestly, it's hard to know and state with absolute authority. It could be lifestream Aerith is there, and that's the presence Nanaki felt. It could be that Jenova is good at replicating Aerith's presence, and it fools Nanaki (he was fooled in the OG by Jenova). Or it could be both (Nanaki feels the real Aerith while Aerith/Jenova? in Cloud's head is doing something else)! It's hard to know! It's just theories, and each one can hold weight or be debunked based on what the game gives us. That's what's fun about this. We won't know until the next game.

[@Syrika24]

I hope this theory is true, because it is SO awesome, but there is one thing Max is forgetting, and thats that Omni Aerith thanks Cloud for what he did. She says something like " I saw what you did back there, thanks." The way she says it is interesting because she's not talking as if it happens to her but to a different Aerith, but it also very much means that it DID happen, we did save her in at least one timeline.

[@botanbutton]

@@Syrika24 Now that you mention it! I think I remember being slightly confused lol. I played in Japanese as well. She says it more plainly, "Cloud, I was watching. Thank you." For me, it feels like she's thanking him for even attempting to save her at all. For coming, so she's not alone. That's what she was grateful for in OG. The loneliness that Aerith feels is hammered down really hard in Re:Make/Birth so I wouldn't be shocked if she was thanking him for making she wasn't alone in that moment. BUT, you never know! It could be thanks for LITERALLY SAVING ME.

[@boardguy2]

@@botanbutton I think since nanaki was also experimented on by hojo he could feel the presence of Jenova or Sephiroth (really betting on Jenova here) trying to be Aerith because soon they are going to start exerting what little influence they have on him too.

[@ThrowbackGaming1]

I think there is something really key that I haven't seen anyone talk about. When Zach makes the different choices like Biggs vs. Cloud...They all end the same way that his original timeline ended. It ends with him facing a huge squad of soldiers. It's basically trying to tell us that you can try to defy fate, but you are always coming back to your original fate. When Zach charges forward in the reactor then jumps off the side, he is defying what fate is trying to force him into his original death which is why he has a chance to break into the main timeline

[@Plasmacat1]

They show the same with Wedge, he dies in our time by falling of a high place again.

[@joshw4741]

It also seems like Sephiroth slashes Zack into the in-between realm, which kinda confuses me why Sephiroth would allow that

[@Illusionaire1]

@@joshw4741 Sephiroth is probably aware that he can't kill Zack. I interpret that Zack "dies" then ends up going to another reality where he made a different decision.

[@StarfieldDisarray]

@@joshw4741 Sephiroth is overconfident and probably assumed that Zack would not be able to free himself. And he's right! Zack was not, it was only through Aerith's guidance that Zack was able to break free and assist Cloud. This is why Sephiroth remarks about underestimating Aerith because she successfully orchestrates breaking Cloud free from Sephiroth's control.

[@riddif]

@@StarfieldDisarray Yeah, i assume what is Sephiroth do is just isolate Zack into another realm, so he cant meddling with his fate or other's fate around him. Though Omni Aerith knows this.

[@kneau]

1:58:16 _"upon reviewing"_ Cloud hurt Tifa's feelings in a genuinely serious way. Think back to a scene shortly after Aerith's apparent death, when she sits - mostly off screen - to the left of Cloud. We see Cloud and Aerith talk with one another. _What I noticed when watching Max review stuff in the aftermath on stream:_ the camera pans out to show everyone present in the immediate area, seated by or close to someone, presumably grieving. Grieving and comforting one another. Find Tifa in this scene. Tifa is seated to the right of Cloud, looking... well, looking like she would appreciate someone to talk to or cry with. Cloud is sitting closer than an arm's length next to her and yet? Cloud has his head turned entirely away from Tifa, seemingly because he is looking at and interacting with Aerith. However, if Aerith is not there and Cloud is not actually talking aloud -- Whatever is happening in this scene, it is contributing to a rift between Tifa and Cloud.

[@kneau]

2:40:26 *Yay!*

[@coolcalmcloud363]

She (Tifa) ain't the one.

[@CrossOutBryce]

​@@coolcalmcloud363More like we should be saying Cloud ain't the one to HER. She's going through it because of him fr and mad props to her because she's going to pull him out of it (eventually).

[@War624]

Considering Cloud is the one who ultimately stops Sephiroth, maybe this apparent rift will cause a delay in her helping Cloud with his mental state, and it'll cause Jenova's plans to come to fruition, as no one powerful enough will be there to stop Sephiroth. She'll regain her full strength and Kefka the universe.

[@dream431ca]

A person in the comments had a really interesting theory that I'd like to expand upon. Remember in Remake just after the motorcycle battle, you come upon a wall of whispers with a tunnel of light. Through that threshold is a new world (or timeline). Everyone crosses the threshold and continue in a different timeline. In Rebirth at the Forgotten Capital, only Cloud manages to cross the threshold, the others had to keep it open for him. In that timeline, Cloud blocks Sephiroth's sword, allegedly saving Aerith, then the wall of whispers falls, allowing the rest of the party to enter. When the whispers disappear, the timeline that Cloud entered is no longer there, the party will instead encounter their present timeline. Cloud saves Aerith in the threshold. When the threshold disappears, it switches, and Aerith is dead in that timeline, where the rest of the party ends up. Sephiroth mentions of merging timelines. What I think is happening, is Cloud knows he saved Aerith, but since only Cloud went through the threshold, those two timelines merged somehow (where Aerith is saved and not saved). This is why only Cloud can see Aerith. This is also why Cloud can only see the tear in the sky in the end cutscene. Cloud is simultaneously in two timelines that have merged.

[@Evanz111]

Absolutely love this theory! It makes a lot of sense. Plus they did so much set up for that idea, that it won’t feel like completely nonsense if they reveal in Cloud’s timeline he saved her. As if the timelines converged, then he’d still be interacting with his party who lost her and are grieving.

[@PlasticLawnDaemon]

Very susinct, Cloud is also aware of the timeline fuckery. Both because Sephiroth explains it to him, as well as because Aerith yeets him into a different timeline where they go on a date and she gives him the white materia -- we know that's real because Cloud has it in his possession in the end sequence, and Seph comments that he shouldn't have it --. I'm not sure what's going on there, as from Cloud's perspective he falls to his death after the temple implodes and wakes up in wheelchair Cloud's body. He tries to ask Aerith if they died, but she cuts him off and says it's a homecoming (remember, when the Shinra officer pleads for his life and Cloud kills him in cold blood, he says "it's not death. It's a homecoming" 0 a curious parallel, not something that's not done deliberately), her dream. But from everyone else's perspective, he falls unconscious, only to wake up when he gets yeeted back. So tl;dr he knows what's going on with the multiple timelines, he talks about it briefly with Barret in the woods. And as you say, he's also the only one who walks through this threshold. He sees both timelines at once. I think he knows that the others can't see Aerith. And at the capital, when they're sitting in silent mourning, Aerith tells Cloud she'll see him off, meaning that he knows she's not coming with him. I'm not sold on him thinking hse's alive, but is just going to leave her alone in an empty field in the middle of nowhere while he goes off to fight Sephiroth. Remember in Remake when "dream Aerith" appears to Cloud at night in front of Elmyra's house? This isn't the first time they communicate in this way, difference is this time he kinda understands what's going on. Also it kinda gets lost that the rest of the party doesn't know about branching timelines or traversed through them.

[@onecanadian4946]

that would mean that aerith leaves the party to stay at the forgotten capital in that timeline, which is just too shoehorned in as a way to have her not in the party in part 3

[@Evanz111]

@@onecanadian4946 I reckon she’ll be largely absent in the third game, until maybe the last third

[@Rydiculous]

@@Evanz111 Maybe she'll have her own short adventure moments like Zack does in rebirth. As opposed to just praying in the temple the entirety of the third game.

[@1996squareenix]

It seems to me like there are 4 possibilities for what's going on with Aerith post-death. I'll list them in order of most to least likely in my opinion: 1. Aerith's spirit is communicating to Cloud through the lifestream (there's already precedent for this happening throughout the compilation) 2. Cloud can now communicate with an alternate version of Aerith who survived (that seems to be what they're insinuating with the sky rift that only he can see at the end) 3. Cloud's mind has deteriorated to the point that he's in denial about her death and just hallucinates speaking to her (I have no doubt this'll at least be the party's perspective, whether or not it's true could go either way) 4. Jenova is impersonating Aerith to further manipulate Cloud (it would be cool to see that actually happen in part 3 as opposed to the possibility just getting talked about) The thing about these theories is that none of them are mutually exclusive as far as part 3 is concerned. For example, I don't believe Aerith is Jenova in the ending of Rebirth, but that doesn't mean she wont take her form at some point in part 3. These could all end up being true at certain points.

[@basket073]

It’s theory n.2. And Sephiroth wanted this, by letting Cloud go alone in the temple (the black whispers open the gate), he let Cloud save her, creating this new world he only can see, where Aerith lives and stays with him. And it’s all part of Sephiroth’s plan to mess with him more.

[@NoTengoStand]

I believe it might just be the other way around, Aerith at the end of rebirth is Jenova's influence in Cloud's head, but there's a survivor Aerith trapped in the merger of worlds and Zack will have find a way to get her and himself back into the main party's world.

[@basket073]

@@NoTengoStand i don’t know, surely Aerith In Cloud’s mind has to do with Sephiroth. But since everything will link back to AC in the end, I doubt Aerith and Zack will be reunited with the main party.

[@jt1973]

This seems most likely to me - a mixture of 2-3-4, maybe all of them in some ways. I don't know if the Aerith we see in the final cgi cutscene is 'jenova''d aerith or sephiroth'd aerith or whatever, because that scene mostly seemed like 50% teasing a mystery (rift), 50% send off to the character Aerith for fans, which is very important and alludes to the fact that she is effectively dead and - while she may appear, won't be a part of the party anymore. That seems very important to note. The director also mention that it was important to preserve the theme of the game that whoever dies does not just come back. So, for all intents and purposes, our Aerith we played with in Remake/Rebirth is dead, done, and in the lifestream now. In that case, the Aerith who says goodbye could just be #1, however normally this Aerith has always been portrayed with green floating lifestream particles around her. If they were trying to say that that is just lifestream Aerith instead of Omni aerith/alive Aerith who cloud can see, they could have done a better job distinguishing it. That being said, there is clearly some kind of fuckery going on with this aerith only Cloud can see - is she the 'alive' aerith trapped in a world that is dying only cloud can see? That might be a separate plot line, because the music cues, and visuals are WAY too strongly dark, minor, and ominous when Aerith being alive somewhere should be something that is hopeful, surprising, etc. The minor turn on the lifestream when Cloud has a jenova-like headache before seeing Aerith is not a good sign. It might be one of the only times in the entire FF7 compilation we hear it do that in such a prominent way. And, it was preceded by a headache like from Sephiroth/Jenova-cells messing with him. His voice and body language not indicating that he is grieving/mourning Aerith surely cant be explained away as 'to him shes still alive' because even still, he literally just lowered her body into the water. We didn't see that scene, or hear his OG dialogue because it is being repressed/hidden in some way and will surely be some part of the reveal of his fragmented entire self in the third game. At least, that would be the clear best way I can think of to expand/further the themes and importance of Cloud's character, and they've already set it up. @@NoTengoStand

[@silverendlessness4052]

I personally believe that it’s a combination of Cloud mental deterioration and the lifestream Aerith. I feel that the multiple timelines could be a red herring because it seems like it’s strongly tied to the lifestream, to the point that I have thought that it’s some sort of purgatory)? But that’s just crazy theories lol. Mostly I believe that Cloud is completely breaking down and Aerith, already aware of his psychological issues (she implies it a couple of times through Remake and Rebirth) is trying to “protect” him. She knows that he’ll eventually get fixed, but some things need to happen before and she’s helping him reach that point by staying close to him as a spirit, it’s almost like she became a Whisperer herself. Something interesting is that in the scene where the team is in front of the lake he gets a flashback of what actually happened but it instantly gets turned down when Aerith appears next to him, being some sort of comfort.

[@HazzardousEco]

Good to see Max with the EZ Allies again for FF7 Rebirth; I feel these guys make good critiques on the mechanics of the game, interesting theory crafting, and debate

[@ubergamer2010]

Absolutely obsessed with how they make you use every character. I wasn't even excited to use Cait Sith and ended up using him for a big portion of my first playthrough. The interactions you get from the mixing and matching of party setups in battle AND within the story was truly a treat. People will be analyzing this game for years to come.

[@DaRkLoRd-rc5yu]

Woah this is so soon after max beating it. I finished it litterally the day before max so this has all worked out really well timing wise for me.

[@notatallboi2735]

Welp I watched Max beat it before I did... I rlly wanted his reaction and opinion on the game as a whole without spoiling myself the ending.. which didn't work that well lol. Don't regret it tho

[@DFTNSHEXGRM]

Dude I thought he had already beaten the game. Saturday I rolled credits at 2am, I instantly went to Twitch to see what his reaction was and he had just beat the game too. We both beat the game at almost exactly the same time lol pretty wild.

[@B-K-Dubya]

Same here! Lol

[@darknesswave100]

I finished it last night and it was killing me not to watch this before I beat it 😂

[@stonehorn4641]

Same. I finished it one day before Max.

[@rockychan497]

NEVER CLICKED A VIDEO SO QUICKLY IN MY LIFE

[@hjk3351]

Ive been waiting for this for the last couple days since i beat rebirth and considering how much they had right in their podcast a year ago im curious what their theories are now

[@JimC1984]

Maybe get a life or enjoy the game yourself instead of needing other nromal people talk about it?

[@the_sigil4340]

I have kept this video in my watchlist for 4 months and now I have finally played Rebirth and it's time to watch it ^^

[@dl2one]

Dude I feel ya.

[@jacobabraham55]

Story discussion begins at 1:04:00

[@VicePup]

THANK YOU

[@cheetah672]

We dont deserve you!

[@Evanz111]

??? There’s a lot discussed prior to that timestamp

[@DJChamber]

I'm thinking the game's final battle will be at the edge of creation with Cloud's buster sword with the black and the white materia slotted into its two slots. Cloud can wipe out and purify Jenova and the Gi (keeping Red's promise while ending Jenova once and for all) with a combination of meteor and holy, and finally omnislashing Sephiroth to obliteration once and for all (seven seconds before the meteor hits).

[@jacksonstubbs2999]

That would be really fucking cool

[@The3rownie]

Do you think that this scene will also be in part 3? kzbin.info/www/bejne/gKbXlpusiK-fmJYsi=MVFidd3Y5uqinF7C

[@TheGabrielSevero123]

Damn dude that’s sounds great

[@stonehorn4641]

7 seconds was the time he had to save Aerith. In both this game, and the OG.

[@x-cluster]

Or he'll have both orbs of the white materia in his sword while Sephiroth has the black one.

[@travismattingly1414]

The problem with Max's theory for me is that it predisposes that the ending is not woefully sad and scary otherwise. I was fully under the impression that Aerith was there as like a weird time ghost, and i still was nothing but unnerved and filled with capital D Dread, and its all because of cloud. Even if cloud is *technically* correct and theres a version of Aerith alive somewhere, he's still very broken and refuses to acknowledge that shes dead as hell. My heart breaks for every other party member and also weeps for cloud, who is at his most broken, even if he doesnt realize it.

[@travismattingly1414]

Also, in regards to Nanaki feeling Aerith, the Jenova tricking cloud thing doesn't feel like it makes sense, because it's not like Jenova is trying to trick EVERYONE that Aerith is alive. Why would she not just NOT be a presence capable of being felt by him? It feels intentional that he feels her, as if to assure us this is (in some form) Aerith. But again, that doesn't make this scene NOT dark. If you watch that last scene and feel hopeful? I have no idea how. It's depressing and scary and dark.

[@ShallBePurified]

Yeah, the theory that Aerith is Jenova or Sephiroth doesn't quite work with the final scene. Between Red feeling Aerith's presence and Aerith longingly looking up at the sky and saying "Goodbye" to everyone, that is not something Sephiroth or Jenova would do, and Cloud is already long gone by that time so it would've done nothing to trick him. The more likely explanation is that, that is Aerith, whether a different timeline, or Aerith in the lifestream manifesting herself as a body that only Cloud and the audience can see.

[@sig3071]

What if there are “two” Aeriths in that last scene? There’s the Lifestream Aerith, the “real” Aerith killed by Sephiroth and now is one with the lifestream. She observes the party in silence, watching over them but unable to communicate. This is the Aerith whose presence Red can feel for a moment. Then there’s the Jenova/Sephiroth Aerith, the one only Cloud can see and talk to, all in his head and further destroying him mentally. Now it’s hard to guess whether she’s simply a product of Cloud’s delusion, or a genuine impersonation by Sephiroth/Jenova to manipulate him further. Or all of the above is completely off the mark and the actual explanation is that the timeline where Cloud saves Aerith has overlapped with this one, and the two are able to communicate across worlds due to whatever went down in the last fight.

[@mrdeblob6010]

I think Aerith’s showing up for Cloud because his mind would break down completely. It’s one thing for someone to die unexpectedly, it’s another thing to know you could’ve saved them and failing to do so. She’s showing up entirely for his sake, so that until he can handle having all the truths revealed to him, he can still keep going. Otherwise he’d give up physically, mentally, emotionally- why fight for a life that painful and hopeless? So she’s giving him false hope until he’s got his feet on the ground, pretending like she’s staying behind so he doesn’t question her absence.

[@ronaldflint1741]

​@@sig3071Cloud being able to see the warped sky and other party members cannot do indicate he is in fact able to see multiple timelines at once. It is like overlapping, Aerith is both dead and alive. The timeline that his party members is in, Aerith is indeed dead but Cloud did create a new timeline where Aerith survived the assassination attempt. She exists in a new timeline where she is able to communicate with Cloud across the multiverse but not with the rest of the party members. I suspect this must have something to do with the empty white materia.

[@SuperZero42]

Okay, regarding Glenn: I don't think I've seen anyone mention this before, but in his final scene with Rufus he implies that "Viceroy Sarruf" is actually Rufus- the implication being that Rufus was working to create the Wutaian anti-Shinra resistance in the same vein as how he created Avalanche, but that his resistance got co-opted by Sephiroth to start an actual war.

[@paleriderpalehorse55]

I love how Sephiroth is taking advantage of his new knowledge of the goings on in the larger world. It's gonna make for great world building and new takes on the old story beats.

[@DayFul]

That scene has crazy implications for Yuffie who's going to get her big story focus in PT 3. First up Viceroy Sarruf and the real Glenn started a revolution that Yuffie supported and landed Godo in jail. Yuffie learning the truth is going to really hurt her and could pay off with her reconciling with her dad which could see Barret getting involved. The second part which could spell big trouble for the group is the materia theft. Does it even happen now? If so she's delivering that materia (I'm calling huge materia) to Glenn who we now know is just a puppet for Jenova. That could have dire consequences for the group. The Devs have spent a long time setting up Wutai, It's the new addition I'm most hyped for as I'm not really on board with all the wired multiverse stuff.

[@urumikanzaki]

Max discussed this on his twitch channel after he finished the game. Chat told him Sarruf in japenese is rufus reversed.

[@huakarafiro]

The Glenn being Cloud's father theory actually predates Rebirth! Cloud also perks up at the name Lodbrok actually. But yeah people have been holding this theory since first soldier and ever crisis. It's unlikely but...

[@urumikanzaki]

@@huakarafiro I think its unlikely yeah, and i don't like it. But you know, it's technically not outside the realm of possibility.

[@nicholasg.5441]

Cant wait for Jack to walk through a portal talking about killing Chaos, and Vincents standing there with his arms crossed

[@thorinhannahs4614]

I kinda dread seeing what Vincent gets as limit breaks now that you mention it. He could end up getting the anime edge lord stuff from Dirge. At least Jack will just get straight to business and punch whatever needs to be punched.

[@yagirlmayalazarus6713]

@@thorinhannahs4614I mean his Galian Beast isn’t the one from Dirge so it’s looking like they’ll stick closer to OG. I’m curious what they’ll do for Chaos and if they’re gonna go for me FF1 Chaos or Dissidia lol

[@Leonick777]

Jack was the only good thing about strangers of paradise​@@thorinhannahs4614

[@livingded8874]

Also, remember the 3 fortunes that Cait sith gives cloud at the Golden saucer. 1.Things are looking up so throw caution to the wind,put your trust in others and a last- minute twist may pleasantly surprise you? 2.watch your belongings.lucky color black? 3.seek and you are sure to find.you shall forever lose...what you cherish most.

[@ShirouBrando]

Sephiroth in Advent Children "Tell me what you cherish the most give me the pleasure of taking it away" And cloud responds with "theres not a thing I dont cherish" and Sephiroth Smiles

[@cheesebearger4187]

I watched 9 hours of Max's stream of the ending aftermath and 4 hours of this spoiler mode lol. I have been waiting weeks for this haha

[@SableWind]

Fuckin same lmao

[@gamerforlife3946]

There’s no Jenova theory becauseit contradicts actual scenes that are there to fight it.

[@gamerforlife3946]

There’s no Jenova theory; Red eyes? Bronco. Jenova Theme in bossfight? OG did it. Glitch? In end of Remake wasn’t Jenova related. Finally He ignores multiple scenes like Aerith’s theme of gold saucer in background when she’s talking to Cloud. Her saying sayonara/farewell in the end with a low voice in a field full of flowers. Dude I am sorry but his evidence is just interpretation and not even proof.

[@SableWind]

@@gamerforlife3946 I'm still on the fence about it, but no other characters have the reflection of the tiny bronco in their eyes, she doesn't have that reflection in other scenes, and most significantly, it's not an in-game cutscene. It's CG, meaning that every inch of every scene is built out from the ground up, it's not a case of a tiny bronco asset being behind the camera, reflecting off of eyes that are mirroring an digital object. An individual, at the direction of an art director, chose to put red in her eyes in that scene and no others. Well, one other - when Cloud is looking at the black materia. Otherwise, the only reflections shown are basic white/light reflections. The Jenova theory for me is one that I think would be awesome, but I'm not 100% convinced of. I do think it's very weird that the devs would even bother putting red in her eyes just to reflect the tiny bronco, since it's a very unnecessary amount of detail

[@gamerforlife3946]

@@SableWind Actually Cloud has it as well, but well like I said that's not the only reason why I think it's weak

[@thedarkknight2221]

This video should be titled *FF7 Rebirth Spoiler Seminar with Professor Maximilian Dood* Seriously I could listen to this man give a 5 hour symposium about this game and all of FF7.

[@pogoacct8611]

Sephiroth: its not death, its a home coming Aerith says at the end: "don't worry about me, it's like a second home

[@GrougMonner-uh6dx]

Max at 2 hrs 45 min: “I don’t wanna talk forever, what do you guys think?” 😂

[@christopherbronson3275]

🤣🤣🤣 he could've kept going and we'd all still be here for it

[@r3gret2079]

Gotta change the name to "Max Mode". Lol

[@sagemodeq544]

4 hours!!!!? I’d expect nothing less. Buckle in L&R

[@TheBennySands]

Regarding the red glint in Aerith's eyes. It appears to just be the reflection of the red bronco she is looking towards. I'm not sure I'd read that as anything beyond at this point, but who knows.

[@DSuheyb]

I went back and looked and thought the same thing. It's just the bronco reflecting off of her eyes. Just my thoughts, Aerith has always said we needed to stop sephiroth since the first game. Her request for Cloud to take care of himself begins when he starts showing signs of losing his mind. But the objective of stopping sephiroth always remained. A lot of good theories here, but sephiroth being controlled by sephiroth doesn't seem like a sound theory from what I've seen.

[@ocean_0602]

@@DSuheyb Agreed. I think Max is just forgetting the times Aerith does enforce the idea of stopping Sephiroth. Towards the end of Remake, at destiny's crossroads before entering the portal, Aerith says to everybody that "Sephiroth has to be stopped, he has to be, and that's why I'm asking you to help me, I know that together we can end this." At the Corel reactor in the dialogue right after they see the weapon for the first time, Tifa says Sephiroth is still out there, Aerith immediately follows with "he is and talking won't stop him" and starts moving forward. Even in the last battle when she appears to Cloud she says "let's end this together." If she didn't want Cloud to fight him she could very well have said I'll take care of him you stay back. So the fact that she wants Cloud to stop Sephiroth in the final cutscene is not an anomalous moment by any means. That's always been her cause since part 1. I could be wrong but if anything is out of character and a red flag it's her randomly mentioning the meteor, which I don't believe had been brought up by the party at all, it was only briefly mentioned during the Cetra lore dump in the Temple.

[@seanmaloughney]

If we do want to follow down the path of that theory a couple other things I noticed. That shot is the only time that it reflects in her eyes so if it was the bronco it should have in the earlier scenes as well. The more interesting thought I had was the reflection in her eyes is pretty identical to the Black Materia reflecting in Cloud's eyes when he takes it out. Whether it's Jenova or Sephiroth I think this version of Aerith is the Black Materia speaking to him.

[@94hourzzz66]

I love max but he is reaching so hard

[@AyyyGabagool]

yeah I looked at the scene and i didnt see the red at all. But the dialogue is pretty telling

[@antoniogaspar9531]

What a time to be alive! Looking forward for the next 4 hours!

[@onekeithtomany]

Hey, y'all. Just so you are aware, Chocobo Stop benches that require a cushion to rest at will actually recover MP in Hard mode. So you can grind and recover MP in Hard Mode so long as you have access to a Chocobo Stop.

[@bluetone-amv]

Thanks for the tip!

[@darknesswave100]

Yeah one of my friends told me that. Which is weird cause after you beat the game it tells you that stops only recover HP. So is that a bug or are they trying to make the game harder for people that play hard mode? Or are they specifically talking about regular benches? Cause the game words it as "stops" when it says they only recover HP

[@onekeithtomany]

@@darknesswave100 Well, the Chocobo Stops are out in the world, far away from story stuff. So it balances out, but it is weird that they don't make that distinction when the game tells you about Hard Mode.

[@Misfiring89]

@@darknesswave100 Definitely intended. Regular benches are free to use and you can fast travel easily, why would you ever use benches that require a cushion? The answer is its for hard mode, free benches and inns now only recover HP.

[@stonehorn4641]

Also, use HPMP on one of the members not in the party to cure out of combat. You can always use it to cure your mp, then switch it off and heal yourself with your now full mp.

[@AbyssHarlequin]

No talk about how the whispers who seemed to be controlled by Aerith trying to stop you from going into the lost city?

[@michaelhowell2809]

I thought they were slowing cloud down for the right moment. What if cloud got there sooner? Would things be different?

[@gallarinas]

i noticed that too

[@ff8masterc]

Great discussion as always, the Damiani/Max cookoff was great to catch live. Can't wait to see what new info we learn from the devs, when the Ultimania releases next month!

[@OfficialCrowMauler]

Here it is. This is it. This is what we’ve been waiting for!

[@DontGiveUp_Skeleton]

The red pixel in Aeriths eye is probably a reflection of the bronco. It's red, and it's right in front of her face.

[@xyrots]

Damn I wish Brad was here for this. He added a lot to the discussion when talking about Remake, Intermission, and the Rebirth theory video

[@GamerHiker-yb4uc]

Just to clarify--Holy (which was being blocked by Sephiroth before the party defeated him) did not stop meteor. It was not working, and actually making things worse. Then "Lifestream Aerith" decided that she'd take things into her own hands and led the lifestream like a commander of an army to neutralize the threat. This is what is implied at that last shot of Aerith in the OG when they play those iconic musical notes. The party did not save the world. Aerith did. She has always been OP--even in the original.

[@xaro9873]

Yeah, holy in the OG actually pulled meteor in more.

[@darknesswave100]

Yeah without aerith doing what she did them having holy would have just ended stuff faster. Which is ironic since it was supposed to stop it

[@soul6733]

Where did you guys read that Hply was pulling Meteor in faster?

[@noirnoel]

@@soul6733So in OG during the final scenes, Red XIII says that “Holy is having the opposite effect.” Holy goes against whatever is most threatening to the planet, so it’s implied that Holy views Midgar/Shinra/people as more threatening to the Planet than Meter itself. But then the lifestream comes in (because of Aerith) and pushes Holy and they go against Meteor instead.

[@SilverKnightXx]

@@noirnoel I think that holy was just cast too late and thats why it was having the opposite effect.

[@SherardiaAvensis]

I'm so happy this appeared on my feed. My friends have not yet played all of Rebirth and I'm starved for theory discussions! ❤

[@andreanicastro9192]

Another thing: Sephiroth wants Shinra engaged in war with Wutai because he does not want the Sister Ray firing at him

[@SableWind]

Fuck man you're right, never even considered that

[@MrLightlike78]

Right? If the rebellion succeeds and they can't muster the energy (which could be a good thing for the planet) how, do we break down the barrier? The anime fan in me thinks it would be kinda cool for plot relevant Knights of the Round! Have 12 himbos break the barrier for us. Probably won't happen...but it would be hype.

[@inunarugo]

That makes a lot more sense.

[@TheWorstPartyMember]

@@MrLightlike78 Never thought I'd see Knights of the Round referred to as "himbos" until today.

[@MrLightlike78]

@@TheWorstPartyMember Personally, I'm more intrigued by your triforceofbutts. That sounds incredible!

[@ChocolateKieran]

I’m still in the mind Cloud is seeing 2 timelines at once honestly. I just can’t see past the rainbow effect in the scene where he’s holding an alive Aerith, they always used it to signify timeline shenanigans. Also am I the only one that feels like it was the SAME Zack jumping through different timelines. It didn’t feel like different versions of him to me, but I might have to watch it back.

[@kneau]

I can see that, yet want to share my perspective -- I think that "alive Aerith" looks... wrong. *Now that I look, the rainbow effect seems "wrong" too. Also: yes, it feels like the same Zack. Stamp variants show up when Zack is involved but I think some are a different flavor of chip in the same timeline/universe. Not all of them, but at least two of those dog mascots exist in the same world.

[@nemuriyagi]

an important thing to note is that the visualization of the rainbow effects starts to show well before the convergence of timelines by sephiroth to introduce us to the idea of the timelines-- it could very well be that the rainbows also no longer matter either as they are coming together in those cases, signified by the glitching showing both timelines simultaneously swapping when cloud is holding aerith as sephiroth mentions the convergence of everything- just a theory on it though! It could really be 2 timelines as well

[@lergat]

I believe this also. He saw the rift in the sky at the end I think because his exposure to another world/timelines in chapter 14 and he saw Aerith wake up in a room alone because as happened to Zack in remake, being save for a timeline branched don't mean you will be in an exactly alternate universe. Zack appeared in a world after the events of remake where all the party is killed/captured. I think is the same with Aerith, she is, at least for now, alone in this world, and as Cloud she can see and also interact at some degree with the other characters. That's the meaning of Nanaki being aware of her when she touched him at the end. The end for me is still dark because Cloud is not entirely able to distinguish the timelines and he would have to face the consequences of Aerith not being alive in his main timeline. But ultimately I feel like Sephirot wanted Cloud to be as broken at the end for the events as the rest of the party, and even if he is confused , Cloud being more hopeful at the end is still a blow for Sephirot plan.

[@magma55100]

So here’s the thing with Aerith being alive. Do they just beat Sephiroth in the other timeline? Does another Zack also go to that timeline to help fight the Sephiroth of that timeline? I mean Cloud saving Aerith by blocking Sephiroth’s sword doesn’t mean they don’t still fight the Jenova Lifeclinger and eventually Sephiroth Reborn right?

[@Tvdvidro]

How do I keep finding you in other channels

[@MrPoppunk182]

I am so happy Damiani mentioned the checkpoint options during the final boss. I died on the last stage of it, only a couple hits away from victory and I chose the wrong option and started the entire fight again. I was choked.

[@RogersBase]

I KNOW WHAT I'M WATCHING TODAY

[@DanielKimdanielkim90]

Hi Rogersbase!

[@elizadoolittle9657]

I think these guys need to watch your reaction to the end Roger 😁

[@TheGabrielSevero123]

Hello man, did you like the One piece reference in FF7 ?

[@shanereynolds9618]

Ayyyye

[@SableWind]

I havent seen people talk about this yet, but the 3 humans shown attacking the Cetra in the Temple of the Ancients looks a LOT like the 3 heroes/friends from the Loveless play. Additionally, in the same scene showing the Cetra fighting Jenova, they mention that she went dormant since she couldnt return to the planet. The visual shows her turn from her monstrous alien form into an angel that looks EXACTLY like Jessie when she is playing the part of the goddess. It puts the whole Loveless "gift of the goddess" in a different perspective. Is the gift of the goddess Jenova cells? Theres the line from Loveless, that of the three heroes, one dies early, one is slain, the last is a prisoner. If the three characters are Angeal, Genesis and Sephiroth, it might make Sephiroth the one who recieves the gift of the "goddess' Jenova, who is imprisoned in the northern crater. Idk if this theory has any legs, but i keep trying to figure out who the three heroes/friends are, or if its just a red herring. I never cared about Loveless theories in Crisis Core because that game is a mess, but the Cetra visions and the Loveless play have my tinfoil hat firmly strapped on

[@Zayindjejfj]

That's actually perfect since all three have been known to grow wings from Jenova cells. Sort of representing ascension into godhood as a "gift from the goddess." It seems the Loveless play is an adaptation from what is probably ancient history turned into old time folklore.

[@SableWind]

@@Zayindjejfj I honestly feel stupid because I wasn't even thinking about the wings, I was also juggling if the three heroes were Sephiroth, Zack, and Cloud, with Cloud as the prisoner because of his mental state, but the wings make the Crisis Core angle much more believable

[@SableWind]

@@Zayindjejfj also, Loveless could be ancient history, but FF7 now appears to have people whose memories can freely travel from the future to the past. When Cait Sith was narrating the fall of the great metal city, my mind immediately went to Midgar. But who knows. The whole play itself could be teasing us by using just enough familiar visuals and themes to get fans to lose their shit

[@thorinhannahs4614]

I mean it helps to remember making 3D assests takes time. So the warmonger humans being the same as the loveless characters is 99% chance just saving on resources. Rebirth does it quite a bit. Like Grandma slums being in Costa Del Sol wearing her default trash bags screams asset re-use.

[@SableWind]

@@thorinhannahs4614 that's a bit different though, that was the same character between both games. They only have one base model for all the black robed men - but they're always black robed men. It seems like a deliberate choice to use those same models in the two very different context. They could have used different modified versions of the robed men to show the robed Cetra in those scenes, but they didn't - they chose to create unique models. Not saying that you're necessarily wrong, they could just be saving time creating new models, but the devs have seemed very deliberate in their choices for Remake and Rebirth

[@ojink]

I love you max, looking forward to see more final fantasy discussions videos with you in it, its very inspiring and entertaining both at the same time and also thank you so much damiani for hosting this video, much appreciate it, can't wait to see more final fantasy VII discussion videos

[@DaS2DaZ]

One thing in reference to Aerith and her connection to other versions of herself in other timelines/universes... Aerith also actually director references this in a joking manner during the beach scene in Costa del Sol when she says something along the lines of meeting her future self she can't wait to do so.. After watching the ending and looking at all these theories about the ending, that sticks out SO much (as well as when Aerith is on the boat on the Cave of the Gi and she puts her hand in the water and has a moment where she seems to have a vision of what's really going on.. Her whole demeanor on the game changes after that moment) 🤷💭

[@nxszxs7548]

3:36:38 I had a very similar idea. In OG FF7 Shinra broadcasted “Tifa’s execution”. They played it off as Cloud and the crew were responsible for Meteor. Well let’s say after that situation the whole world believes it. They realize in order to stay hidden they have to change their clothes. They switch to the Advent Children clothes while still having the option for the OG clothes (in case some want to wear AC). Cloud’s clothes change would be the most significant since he realizes who he truly is. He’s not a soldier or more specifically Zack. He puts on the Advent Children clothes as a representation of himself. I would take it one step further and have him obtain the Fusion Sword early too. Maybe him and Barret both get their respective weapons from the creator of Barrett’s gun (since it was mentioned the gun was made very impressively in the Gongaga sidequest). This would allow us to also see Cloud’s true sword skills with the ability to switch the sword type. And finally this could be how the developers scratch the AC itch by having scenarios like having Cloud ride the AC bike during the Return to Midgard

[@lomborg4876]

The red pixels you see in Aerith’s eyes are just the reflection of the airplane bent by IOR (Index of Refraction) from the PBR material of the eye. You can actually see it in two shots of her. However the reason you can’t see it in the other shots of her talking to Cloud is likely because the out of frame objects behind Cloud were disabled to decrease render time

[@gleam6370]

That’s not as interesting

[@lomborg4876]

@ from a narrative perspective, no. But it’s the explanation to the red glint in her eyes that he mentions

[@sanddry738]

I love how when watching Max’s FF7:Rebirth finale livestream, he hit all the major lore points and theories. The *lore* this game gives is absolutely amazing. (Like he said, the writers have been COOKING for 30 years) The previous FF7 Spoiler Mode was so gigabrianed and same here. God I can’t wait for this game to come out on PC. Then the 3rd game

[@Feenucks]

This has made my commute so entertaining for the past couple days. Loved this breakdown and, as always, LOVE Max’s excitement!

[@Kinda_ANastyDude]

I love Max. When it comes to content creators or theory crafting, he just gets it! When he's going off like this I love every second of it.

[@collinbtw]

I just realized, in the Nibelheim flashback at the scene where Cloud's mother died, you can hear her voice like she is talking to cloud from up close but you don't see it because it's distorted. I think that you'll see the full Nibelheim flashback including the death of his mother, the death of his best friend, and the death of his supposed girlfriend. This is about to get dark....

[@farqueue2844]

Yeah this is all revealed in disc 3 of the OG game.

[@collinbtw]

@@farqueue2844 Yeah I know, but what I mean is when Cloud and Tifa falls into the lifestream together, normally it’s only the Nibelheim incident, but I believe that it will be these 3 scenarios now.

[@farqueue2844]

Oh right I get ya. I agree it'll be alot more in depth and yeah hopefully incorporate a bit more. And yes it will be dark. Cloud needs to break his chains lol. On a side note I found it really cool you could hear things from Clouds perspective in the flashback. Given new players wouldn't know they are actually playing as Zack at that point and cloud is the masked soldier. Cool little attention to detail.

[@blackroomrob4205]

​@@collinbtw that actually makes sense. Tifa falling from the Mountain has already sort of been told now in Rebirth so the main focus there has to now be the Full Nibelheim Flashback and Full reveal of Aerith's Death because that's really all Cloud will need help with at that stage

[@LymusIll]

I'm excited for the lifting and yeeting scene. Most badass moment of Cloud.

[@stevenmoffett3460]

3:11:53 interesting note about multiple sephiroths. There are 2 enemy Intel entries for "normal" sephiroth for 2 different locations. No other boss gets that. Even Gilgamesh who has two very different boss fights and enemy Intel entries, one as enigmatic warrior (or whatever) and one as Gilgamesh only has ONE line entry. The Gilgamesh entry overrides the older one. And that happens for every boss you fight more than once. The newer overrides the older entry. But not sephiroth, he has two. And they are both completely blank. No info about either one and they have the same character model. What's the point of having two entries if the info is gonna be black regardless, unless the devs want to tell us that there are 2 different sephiroths

[@gogglebobb]

This game is a miracle. I love it so much. Just finished last night. And my first impulse was to come here for some Max Spoiler Mode. Now the long wait for part 3 begins lol

[@bizold]

It'll be shorter than Silksong at least :)

[@Mr.Schneebly69]

Mad Dood thank you for your ambassadorship. Can’t think of anyone better for the job

[@Neo-Midgar]

About Glenn being Cloud's dad, it's said in a light novel that Cloud's dad left him and his mom 2k gil each and then disappeared. Glenn in First Soldier owes his buddy 4k exactly in gil for an undisclosed reason. Cloud's dad is also known to say "As long as you've got 2k gil in your pocket, you can make it through anything." And what price is Cloud always quoting for his mercenary services? 😉

[@FENRlZ]

Damnn hidden lore aside, this is just sad 😢

[@MikaMausArt]

Also Glenn’s events in Ever Crisis take place exactly 21 years before the beginning of 7 Remake. 21 years. Cloud’s age.

[@inori_shiki]

Oh my god, I didn’t know that!

[@Krijgerr]

Not saying you are wrong but we learn during the dog Salmon sidequest that when Cloud left home his mom tried giving him 2k gil. Barret even jokes along the lines "But you still set your price at 2k gil. Sentimental, ain'tcha". So maybe Cloud's mom got the 2k thingy from Glenn and then influenced Cloud to do the same.

[@jase_bakaridge]

@@Krijgerr that 2000 gil she tries to give him could be the same 2000 Glenn left her; maybe she just saved it for this. i hate this but also love it.

[@drgonzo123]

@37:00 I did the same thing when I lost to Roche outside the mansion. I accidentally chose restart from last checkpoint and it took me all the way back to before going into the reactor! I lost several hours of progress and multiple boss fights. I was so pissed. Especially having to replay the Cait Sith box section. Why the f*ck would the last checkpoint be so far back? It even auto saved when it loaded in so I had no choice but to go through all that crap all over again.

[@travisparks9289]

2:24:47 Just want to point out that Sephiroth only begins his speech about the convergence of world after Tifa and the others come in and see Aerith, at that point Cloud wasn’t sad or angry anymore since Aerith had touched his cheek at that point, so Sephiroth was primarily referring to everyone else’s anger not Cloud’s specifically in that scene.

[@washoywa]

No.

[@kaylee42900]

I think the situation with Cloud and Aerith is a lot more simple, esp since we just dealt with an entire section dealing with choices creating new world. We saw that Sephiroth's fuckery merge Biggs and Marlene into a world they didn't come from. Timelines and reality is just breaking down entirely. So with cloud there are 2 things happening: 1) he has Jenova in him which we have evidence throughout the game that Jenova can communicate across these worlds (which makes sense if there's 1 lifestream) 2) Much like how Zach had choices that spawned realities, Cloud saving and not saving Aerith are two different realities but because of Jenova existing in the lifestream he can simultaneously exist in both timelines where he saved and didn't save her. She did survive but she also didn't. This is indicated by Cloud seeing the tear in the sky when he's communicating with Aerith, There is clearly another world going on here. In fact, Aerith surviving is the thing that could completely mess up what happens in the OG. If Holy protects the lifestream then it doesn't matter which world holy is cast as long as it can reach the lifestream. This is why Sephiroth is annihilating every single Aerith. Also I thought it was super interesting scene direction that cloud did not directly observe her death or saving. In quantum theory, each outcome is true until you observe it at which point the waveform collapses and we observe a single outcome. The party arrives and observes her dead, when cloud finally looks at her, he sees her alive.

[@Oimae]

they see her dead because the party is the one from the world where cloud didn't save her. Clous is the only one that goes through the whisper wall of fate right before reaching aerith praying. They only go through when sephiroth "stabs" aerith.

[@Hdx64]

I've been thinking what if Aerith swithched Marlenes when he was at the bar to calm her down, sending this new Marlene to the other timeline. This is the only thing that makes sense to me.

[@lyrithvalthier2236]

It's way easier and more simple than what they're saying - Yes, there are at least 2 versions of Aerith; one that dies in our main world and main storyline, and a different, multi-world "Dream Aerith" in her "dream world" date with Cloud; how many others is unclear. But, the Aerith that Cloud is seeing post her death is simply the Omni/Dream Aerith, who still actually is alive in an alternate reality, who is able to commune with Cloud, and this is evidenced by Red feeling her presence. No time travel, to the past or future, has ever actually occurred here - each jump the player goes through is to an alt world that is parallel in time to the main world we play in. So multi-verse, or many worlds? yes. Multiple timelines? not so much, cause no actual "time travel" to a past or present happens. Visions of such, yes, but no travel. Further evidence of this occurs when that same Omni/Dreamworld Aerith appears from the fucking multi-verse portal to help Cloud fight Sephiroth. What does that set the stage for? well with Zack saying "Who's to say they (the multiple worlds) can't be brought together again?" Sounds straight forward to me. That how they bring her and Zack back; the worlds will merge, all of them, and everyone teams up to fight an even bigger, badder Sephiroth/Jennova fusion stronger than ever fought before. AND HERE IS THE REAL KICKER - It's actually Cloud that is hyper aware of all of this. Knowing his part to play in Aerith's plan. He is let "IN" on it through Omni/Dream Aerith in her dreamworld, AND Zack during their team up, AND he is the only one who is aware, meanwhile knowing the rest of the party is not going to understand that, because only Cloud gets the reveal of multi worlds via Aerith, Zackm AND EVEN Sephiroth, when Sephi shows him the "true nature of reality". That evidence is stronger in my opinion. Cloud is actually closer to revocering mentally at this point now than he was in the OG game, as evidenced by him now acknowledging Zack as a separate person, recognizing him and remembering him during their team up. The only thing is, Cloud is both aware, and unaware - meaning he thinks Omni-Aerith is the same Aerith that he saved - but it is not. She did die, and Aerith intervenes to hide that from him, to prevent Sephiroth from feeding on that power of loss.

[@wii58739]

Its wonderful to see Doods talking FF7 theories with EZA, I really enjoyed these types of special videos, good stuff!

[@blocksheep4899]

I think Square- Enix intent was for us to be confused and emotionless to feel what Cloud is feeling. Basically putting us in Clouds shoes. Plus in Tifas (mideel like flashback) in lifestream she sees Cloud and Sephiroth in a white dimension (between worlds). Symbolizes that Sephiroth and Cloud are in fact between or seeing all timelines.

[@thecyborgninja]

Don't think I've ever watched a 4 hour KZbin video before but all these theories hooked me in Love how detailed the theories are and how they're backed up it's made me look at the ending in a whole new light Great video 🙏🏻

[@theloniuspunk383]

it's a 10/10. TEN OUT OF TEN. They built an ultimate golden era style FF game with every conceivable aspect of media tuned to utter perfection, somehow hid from my eyes a game I already knew so intimately. Incredible. They even built in schitzo fan theories TO THE FORE -AND- included some of the new threat mod. I am just jaw on the floor how good this game was. GOD DAMN

[@SideBurn12]

What New Threat stuff did they include? I must've completely missed that.

[@theloniuspunk383]

@@SideBurn12 double wall demon!

[@FreeFlow__]

stop it

[@KingKarimYT]

Just finished the game. Can’t wait for Part 3. Regardless of how the changes to the Ending went, that incoming Tifa Cloud segment was set up pretty well with this game.

[@gremsen1335]

I just imagine the story team of part 3 sitting taking notes on all Max's predictions.

[@cheef825]

nah they watching sleepezi videos and like "yo wtf write that down"

[@94hourzzz66]

I hope not. He’s super reaching with that “aerith is just jenova and it’s trying to act like aerith”

[@Cullenium]

The fact everyone has a limit break but Cloud is a very interesting gameplay/storytelling element

[@travisparks9289]

2:35:09 I feel sure some probably already brought it up to you guys but if the last scenes Aerith is all in Cloud’s head why does Nanaki notice her presence and why does she go and stand next to every party member before they leave? She also is still on the ground long after the Tiny Bronco takes off so shouldn’t she have disappeared the moment we stop seeing things from Cloud’s viewpoint?

[@natediaz1863]

Nanaki didn't notice her presence. In Clouds mind everything is normal and Aerith is talking to everyone as usual.

[@UnknownGamer37]

@@natediaz1863 no he noticed go watch it again

[@AndiTheBassman]

Nothing better than finishing the game with your spoiler mode video! Thanks a lot

[@stevenmoffett3460]

2:19:59 aerith reveals how to truly win this seemingly endless conflict. FORGIVE. The party has to forgive sephiroth and save HIM from Jenova. That will be the only way the cycle will ever truly end, otherwise it will keep looping back on itself.

[@Brandonweifu]

Yup Jenova will be the TRUE villain of this remake trilogy

[@michalpociask3068]

I like this idea

[@thegamemattster]

Agreed. I’ve felt this game is trying to do a redemption arc. I wouldn’t be shocked if the last game is FF7: Redemption but I know it won’t be lol.

[@ThrowbackGaming1]

I just watched a theory where it was posed that the moment of Aeriths death is a singularity moment across ALL timelines and thats why Sephiroth does what he does there. He knows that is his chance to merge all worlds there. I think that could hold some weight

[@MasamuneChad]

3:11:23 THIS!!! I've had this theory developing since Remake. And it keeps evolving with new info. Finally someone with a platform brings it up.

[@deadmanraging8864]

I randomly started thinking about the theory of their being a "good" Sephiroth. If this does happen this version will not be anywhere close to the power level of the current evil Sephiroth so will probably be killed quite quickly.

[@joshg.6315]

The hardest thing in the game for me: The expert level sit-up challenge. Fuck that shit.

[@ronthorn3]

Really? That was like the easiest mini game for me, I failed the first challenge once, then did every one after perfect.

[@gerrya2133]

​@ronthorn3 I can't seem to get the hold aspect to work. I have zero chance of beating it cause it just fails every time.

[@vizioax2]

​@@gerrya2133once I saw adaptive trigger non sense I put the controller down And said no platinum for me. Haha

[@kaylee42900]

The way I've looked at the multiple timelines thing is that: 1. There is one single life stream 2. It is effectively a living being (which has been hammered in even via the OG) 3. People, events, life, etc. are this being manifesting its will (and no we know that it even has the will to reject being joining the lifestream). 4. With all that in mind the lifestream doesn't have to experience time linearly, it can experience all realities all at once and manifest what it wants. We then combine that with what we know about Jenova: 1. Jenova has infected the lifestream 2. Jenova cells can communicate with each other across a distance 3. With multiple timeslines and Jenova still infecting the lifestream Jenova seems to be able to communicate across the timelines (which makes sense because from the perspective of the lifestream since they are happening non-linearly). 4. As with the OG game, sephiroth has transcended physical form (though he still takes on on when he wants to) and has taken control of Jenova (Kitase confirmed Sephiroth isn't being controlled, he's fully taken control of Jenova in OG). 5. We already know when sephiroth dies (as when Cloud killed him in Nibelhiem) he survives, when killed in the OG he's back in Advent Children, so now that Sephiroth is back and taking a different approach to use Jenova to get what he wants.

[@stonehorn4641]

Glen being Cloud’s father comes from A Tale of Two Pasts and some passages in Ultamania and First Soldier. In FS, Matt (one of the characters) says Glenn borrowed 4000$ from him. Cloud’s father was “wanderer”. He swept Claudia off her feet at the Nibelheim Inn. They had Cloud, he disappeared into the mountains, leaving Claudia and Cloud each 2000 gil. Glenn was a soldier, part of the original. He was on Sephiroth’s first mission, and at first hated him but later became friends with the First Soldier 1st Class super soldier. He tried to teach Sephiroth compassion. Glenn split off from Shinra and went on the run, becoming a Wutai soldier.

[@Oimae]

Wait he is? I made the connection because of how he looks but I didn't know for sure. Plus what he said to rufus : a father's dream made true by his sin or something like that.

[@coolrocksounds]

By anime rules the same hair color means they’re father and son.

[@sfcSpidey]

is glenn even alive now i thought he was just sephiroth in disguise i thought that since he showed up in rebirth

[@Oimae]

@@sfcSpidey he's not. He got killed by rufus

[@ocean_0602]

Currently reading ToTP, finished the portion on Tifa's story in Nibelheim. It talks about a man who was visiting the town and how Claudia fell in love with him, though I noticed no details that hinted at it being Glen. Curious in your opinion where the correlation lies?

[@vaibcc]

Seeing FF7 prophet max again is a real treat but 4 hours of FF7 Rebirth discussion?! I'm allll in!!!

[@gamerforlife3946]

I apologise how do you call anyone a FF7 prophet? No1 predicted this game right LOL

[@Neo-Midgar]

​@@gamerforlife3946If you haven't seen his Remake Spoilercast you probably should. He predicted the game name, and about 75-80% of the new content.

[@johnathancarrillo6990]

​@@gamerforlife3946 I raise you one Max calling the games title rebirth 4 years ago Jokes aside tho it's just nice for me personally to hear everyone's theories and thoughts to try and piece things together with my own thoughts

[@gamerforlife3946]

@@Neo-Midgar Dude most people predicted the titles of projects… Plus he didn’t predict 75% or more. He thought Zack would show up more and never expected the changes they made. Plus most expected they would follow OG, and most even expected they would end it here. Max expected they would end it on the meteor.

[@gamerforlife3946]

@@johnathancarrillo6990 Same response as above but I do get it eventhough I can’t with his Jenova theory because it makes no sense lol

[@Doug-uf4cs]

In the book, "A Tale of Two Pasts" there is mention of Cloud's father being a wanderer who goes up the mountain and disappears. This obviously doesn't say "Glenn is Cloud's dad!" but it does show that they put that mystery into the compilation for this game. If the mystery has been put out there, it might be because they intend to answer it, and if they do Glenn would be a reasonable answer. Especially since that would make relations between Rufus and Cloud even weirder. Not buying into it. Not trying to die on this hill. Just saying it isn't completely implausible.

[@StephenOwen]

1:40:42 it fell through his hand because Sephiroth was not really there, that was a manifestation of Jenova, manipulating people, but not truly there . Sephiroths body is regenerating in the northern crater, where we are going at the start of the next game

[@feastildur]

It's crazy to me that people saw the final scene of this game initially and didn't think it was really dark and sad. My immediate reaction was good lord Cloud is seeing shit and tripping out and Tifa is crying everything is about to go off the rails in this next game lol

[@travisparks9289]

2:31:58 I guess you didn’t notice the two White Whispers surrounding Cloud and Aerith in that scene separating them from the other party members, if she’s dead why are they still present in that scene?

[@ldarkllrevanl181]

Aerith is dead physically, not in the livestream

[@gremsen1335]

2:39:00 And to add the fact that the song she wrote is called "No promises to keep" and while it plays, she makes him promise something.

[@thatsnotgaming2024]

Dude! I've been pitching that "Sephiroth is actually trying to convince Cloud to help him defeat Jenova" particularly at "the edge of creation" FOR YEARS...since I beat Remake. In that scene Sephiroth definitely felt like he was speaking sincerely with Cloud and always felt to me like he was being genuine in a way that I haven't seen him be any other time ever. So the idea that there is a Sephiroth out there who is fighting against Jenova is one I've been talking about for years. That's crazy, man! This is the first time I've ever heard anyone else say it. And I'll go one further: The Sephiroth traveling with Cloud and explaining the multi-verse is the same Sephiroth that tried to befriend him at the edge of creation AND that's the only two times we see that particular Sephiroth.

[@Hugotovr]

I’ve had the same thought since I beat remake too. My theory is actually last battle against Jenova is actually sephiroth, Zack and cloud. OR or could be sephiroth cloud and aerith.

[@BrandonWestfall]

28:30 is one of my biggest complaints about Rebirth. Having to swap materia when you're forced into a certain party comp was infuriating. I wasted so much time with that bullshit. Some open world mechanics felt repetitive but for the most part it worked for me. I found the navigation/controls infuriating at times. My chocobo would randomly decide "lets go mach 10" the second I got on him. Slow the hell down bro, I just hopped on. Several mini games felt intentionally difficult/frustrating. (Crunches, boxing, and mushroom pulling being the first 3 that come to mind.)

[@MrMrTravman]

I agree, the bloat and the controls were a massive issue, I think I wouldve enjoyed the game much much more on PC though, since alot of the control issue was because of the 30 fps and really poor camera.

[@TigerTabCat1]

2:58:44 I rewatched this scene and I cannot spot any red glints in Aerith’s eyes….

[@AyyyGabagool]

This is required post-game content. Square should have this entire podcast embedded at the end of rebirth lmao

[@StarsTeamMember]

That red reflection in aeriths eyes is the tiny bronco

[@LadyFrickinda]

I’m with Max on this one. From the moment Aerith showed up next to Cloud, when the party was just sadly staring at the water in the city of the Ancients, all the little hairs in the back of my neck stood up and I thought: Ew, no way that’s Aerith. What is that? Couldn’t exactly put my finger on what made me feel that way, though. So thank you Max for pointing out all the things that were off about the whole thing. We could be proven wrong in the next game though, and I love that. Can’t wait to find out. Hands down the best game I ever played.

[@vancejohnson-beal8142]

I think it's aerith protecting clouds mind since he can't handle it and his is probably the catalyst for all the convergence like a key of sorts. She's waiting for tifa to come in and help fix it before he can actually face it and be strong enough.

[@danielle810]

I had the exact same thing!!

[@amadina9636]

The problem with that interpretation is how the last cgi scene is directed and animated. We see aerith from cloud’s pov(not internal but still) - when he looks at her from the hill. And then we see her walking around party members with sad face at moments, big shots of sad face... why show this if cloud is far from her and don’t see it? So we are shown Aerith emotions. Not jenova’s or seph’s. The thing that I found very interesting... she seems not to see party members. Only cloud. But she feels them? I noticed that she didn’t look directly at yuffie and tifa, she touched only red and looked at him with a smile but maybe it is because he is kinda ‘special’ creature and she can comfort him through time and space? It is also interesting that she is the last one to turn to Bronco’s loud noise when Cid fixes it. Seems like she is detached from party members and what they are doing, partly from physical processes, so maybe she sees only Cloud and the plane, but not Cid fixing it.

[@Lakross101]

It's the way she turns her head at the lake without moving her eyes. The repetition of lines and actions a bit late after everyone else. The music. The lighting on the face as it goes up her face rather than on. Very similar to that scary story telling trope when someone puts a flashlight under their face.

[@LadyFrickinda]

@@Lakross101 yess! That head-turn, man, like a porcelain doll. I got chills.

[@majorcinamonbun26]

Max your theories and your love for the game made me play the original and remake. Love your content always

[@buumandy]

What I dont see anyone talking about is : - on doomed terrier "timeline" the radio is talking about the events on Remake Beagle timeline. They're talking about Cloud/Avalanche raid on Shinra Building. So are the timelines intertwined? - in kalm, we can hear the radio talking about thing happening on Zack's Terrier timeline after the tornado. So again, are the timelines intertwined?

[@NockNox]

I think that's a red herring. In Zack's timeline, the top of the Shinra building got ripped off as you see in the intro, but in Cloud's timeline you can clearly see that the Shinra building is intact.

[@shannon1242]

I think the timelines are more like "pockets" then entire worlds and they are overlapping in weird isolated places. It's not A or B but B bleeds into A here and there.

[@Velciter]

I think so. In addition to this there's also the terrier and beagle both being present in Upper Junon signage, the terrier on a warning sign thing and the beagle on the side of what looked like a bus stop iirc. I definitely think it's a case of a bunch of different timelines just being completely out of whack and converging weirdly at different points. Still watching this vid atm, so not sure if they mention it but Sephiroth at one point does mention a confluence of timelinesm which would make sense in this regard.

[@dalerenner5942]

When max dood said “every character has a limit break except cloud” my jaw dropped. Jesus that totally went over my head.

[@ThrowbackGaming1]

I think the writers intentionally let the ending be really ambiguous and open to interpretation because they don't want to write themselves in the corner. Is it Jenova manipulating everyone? Is Aerith alive in another timeline? Are there actually other timelines? You can't definitively say either way and I think they did it that way so the can steer the story in the direction they want to after reading players interpretation of the story.

[@tonymaccaroni1683]

I think this is most likely the case. It is possible that they didn't even finish the plot yet.

[@MrDezokokotar]

I think the story has been completed even before Rebirth came out and they wont be re-writing a major plot point at this point. I think they left it ambiguous because they want the players to be engaged and thinking about the game, have a lot of questions and mystery.

[@rsoxboy]

Yea I've thought this same thing too. It seems like they've gone in some directions and completely reversed course later. If you remember the end of Intermission where they show Zack practicing what to say to Aerith outside of the church... well absolutely nothing came of that. Instead they started with Zack saving Aerith's dreaming body at the beginning of Rebirth. I think they do know generally how they want the story to end, but how they get there is still being discussed among the Square Enix team every day they go to work while gauging player's reactions.

[@MrDezokokotar]

@@rsoxboy The Intermission scene does continue in Rebirth - its the one at the end, in Shiba timeline, where Zack sits in front of the church and Johnny walks by carrying a shiba Stamp plush. Then Sephiroth comes in and sends him to someplace we can assume is bad, but lifestream Aerith intervenes and Zack follows the yellow flowers and ends up with Cloud, fighting Sephiroth together in the boss battle. So yeah, that is the Zack that Cloud fights together with, not the one we've been following through the Zack interludes in Rebirth. Start of Rebirth is a different timeline, the Terrier timeline, which ends with Zack trying to save Cloud by going to Hojo and is ambushed by a platoon of Shinra troops and charges into them on a motorcycle. (and Terrier also splits into the Pug timeline where he goes to save Biggs)

[@travisparks9289]

2:26:50 My question at this point is why are we taking Sephiroth at his word here, he needs Cloud to think Aerith is dead he would naturally try to gaslight him even if Cloud managed to save her. Another issue I have is that when Tifa and the others first come in the room they see Aerith without blood then Jenova static hits and she’s covered in it, so what’s happening there give us a clue into what’s actually real in that scene, remember Jenova can manipulate people’s perception of reality, she does this in the fight right after this scene after all by making the room go crazy and makes party members disappear in the Northern Crater in the original when she shapeshifts into Tifa.

[@_Shinasu]

3:04:51 this also brings to mind that bugenhagen told red to trust his senses so that he may never be tricked after we came back from the GI cave

[@DelphieNEhuntah]

Also doesn't Zack use an umbrella at the beach to fight off some divers originally which is what Cloud does in Rebirth?

[@thorinhannahs4614]

That is correct he kills a bunch of Genesis Divers.

[@SnakeEyesNZ]

Yup, in Crisis Core