Ebike PAS Assist - High Power testing of the DM02 with the ASI BAC855

[@ronnyaasterud7452]

I am still keeping an eye on the Photon. Hopefully, they will address your concerns and solutions for a reconstruction to fix the heat problem. I am following your testing and ideas on the betterment of the products. I am interested in the further development of the Photon. I like the way you and others describe the smooth power assist when in pedal assist mode. I like the bike to be as simple as possible and that it functions like a regular bicycle without all the wires and throttle. Less is more. This, of course, is my own humble opinion and may not fit the rest of the rider's wishlist for their bicycle. Merry Christmas to you. And, thank you for all you do.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Merry Christmas Ronny. I have had a reply back from CYC concerning issues I raised which I will go over on Friday. They are saying that its manufacturing defects not heat. So if over the next year there are minimal complaints then it might be problem solved.

[@hindesite]

@@HighVoltageKits wow, that's quite an admission. That said, if they are owning the defects, they'll be fixing them which is great news for future customers.

[@larrym2434]

Hi Ronny. I want to weigh in on the power assist. I'm a rider who uses the PAS 98%+ of the time, and I definitely like my ebike to feel as close to a regular bicycle as possible, so I prefer ebikes with torque sensors. I have ridden a few different bikes that fit this description including a Specialized Turbo Vado SL, a couple of TSDZ-2 that I built, one with the open source firmware, and a CYC Photon that I built. The CYC Photon is definitely smooth, but I don't feel like it lays down power in a way that is linearly proportional to my pedalling effort. Here is one specific example of the Photon's power output that I find strange. When I ride up a long hill, I will occasionally get up out of the saddle to give my a** a rest. On a regular bike, when you get out of the saddle, you can peddle slower with more effort/higher resistance on a higher gear. But with the Photon, the motor detects that you are putting down more human powered torque, then the programming will give more assistance, causing the pedal to "give way" underfoot, causing you to spin at high rpms with low resistance under foot.

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

NICE!!! Those temps are not ideal but definitely more manageable (at this power level) on PAS than throttle. Keep up the good work. I value the info you provide. I still have high hopes for the Toseven motors. (Especially after losing hope for the Photon.)

[@HighVoltageKits]

Yeah man. Considering its a 500watt motor rated it did pretty well. There is quite a bit of potential in them. Should be a lot of fun building some more bikes next year.

[@michaelsprinzeles4022]

@@HighVoltageKits So far both Toseven motors are impressive. I suspect the 01 will prove more reliable (when powered beyond their ratings) but the 02 impresses me more for the small form factor but big potential. If only they built either for a 120mm BB:(

[@ricksanchez3628]

​@@michaelsprinzeles4022Extenders for the bottom bracket wouldn't be far behind.

[@hisforhack]

Thanks for proving my DM02 is over build, I installed DM02 48v 500w on my ICE Adventure trike "1200km", it replaced TSDZ2 48v 350w(de-rated) OSF "4000+km" The torque sensor is the magic for this little "Legal" in Canada mid-drive kit.

[@HighVoltageKits]

You are very welcome! Great to hear from a fellow Cannuk

[@MumfordJim]

Looking forward to the comparison video. Considering the DM02 for my next build.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Sounds good. If there is anything you want me to touch on let me know.

[@MumfordJim]

⁠@@HighVoltageKitsYes, my biggest concern is that I will be using a Nexus 8 speed IGH. From what I understand the IGH can only handle about 40-50nm of torque. The DM02 is 90nm I believe. Any way to limit the amount of torque in the settings? Will it come with brake cutoffs? Will it have a throttle? I’m not overly concerned about these 2 things. Have ridden a IGH in Europe on Holiday a lot and non of those have a throttle and I’m not sure they have a brake cutoff. Usually ride a Bosch mid drive with an IGH. When you stop pedaling the motor stops. Also when you ride an IGH you should stop pedaling momentarily when you change gears. This is even true without a motor. Currently have a BBS02 with a 5 speed Sturmey Archer IGH. Like it a lot, but looking forward to a Toque Mid drive.

[@arronjohnston742]

i like that you're testing using 52v battery as it's more inline with what most people are able to afford... these tosevens are looking promising tho, i like that they have the extra gear reduction, they'll be great for cargo style bikes for sure

[@HighVoltageKits]

Appreciated. I think the DM01 would be better suited for hauling cargo as you have the extra weigh involved.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Depends. They all use the same chemistry so construction and handling are both key. If you mean in terms of riding around speeds. Yeah it won't reach the same extremes as a 72 volt bike would.

[@arronjohnston742]

@@HighVoltageKits yes sorry i should been more clear that's the model i was referring too

[@arronjohnston742]

@@HighVoltageKits i think he means voltage danger ?

[@SirBryanWhyte]

New Sub. Love your channel so far. I have a custom build I've worked on for many years. Currently have an HPC Revolution frame with a BAC4000, custom 20S14P pack made from Sony VCT5s these together are capable of sustained 20KW and 280amps. The last thing I must decide on to complete my build is my end motor. I've toyed with a mid-drive of some kind but haven't found the go-to setup yet. If I go with a new hub, I'll likely go with something like a CYC high tq version similar to what HPC offers, rated between 7-9000W laced to a moped tire with shinko's wrapped. Since my battery and controller are overkill for anything I'd need, I left myself some options. Mid-Drive interest was peaked with some of the builds I've come across on your channel. I like the idea of losing unsprung weight. Regardless of my next motor, I want to have a torque-sensing PAS system with a high-speed gear of some kind. Schlumpf High speed drive up front with a hub perhaps. I'd like to hear some thoughts. I'd like to know if you got the tq sensing pas to work with the ASI controller. Ultimately I'd like to pedal at high speeds with PAS. My goal is to do some long trips. I've ordered a j1772 to adapter and a 220V 25 amp charger to see what kind of distance I can get. My bike weighs 93lbs currently, 27 is battery. I think I could get range near 250km if I guess. Anyone else know of anything suitable for a build with emphasis on power to weight and low end TQ? Thanks to anyone who took the time to read my comment.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Cheers mate. You should join our discord server. I’d go with either a QS motor or a lightning rods drive for that kind of power. Discord links on the description of most of our videos

[@ricksanchez3628]

Im glad the DM01 shows such promise as it boads well for the DM02 as well. How similar are they to the BBS02 and HD? From what ive seen of the DM02 it seems faster than the HD and it doesn't have the squeal the HD has either. Will you be offering these as kits with other controllers other than the BAC as i find the BAC prohibitively expensive.

[@HighVoltageKits]

This is the DM02 Rick. It might be possible to offer something with the cheaper models. Right now there is a long way to go before we start doing a kit. I want to torque sensor to be working first. I know what you mean with the costs. I will do a bit of a comparison video stuff in the new year which I think will help people quite a bit.

[@ricksanchez3628]

Yeah I got them backwards..01 is big, 02 is the smaller one lol Consider trying this (02) with some fat tires and see how it does with the added friction, I'm willing to bet the top speed and acceleration suffer quite substantially. The DM01 seems a lot more capable. Appreciate the breakdown and review on these new motors, also appreciate the honesty and integrity of the channel 👍🏻👍🏻@@HighVoltageKits

[@Fubar684]

Watching. Carry on, Sir.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Cheers mate

[@ataksnajpera]

What exactly is less refined in dm02 versus photon? Torque sensor in photon Has higher range or what?

[@HighVoltageKits]

I will cover that in the comparison video. But essentially the sensor is not the same level of responsiveness and smoothness especially at lower levels of power like cruising up to a stop sign. That sort of thing. Its getting close though with each firmware update.

[@ataksnajpera]

Is this a hardware issue or purely software?

[@seanchadwick6182]

Great video as always! Whats your setup for gearing when testing? Stick with a 1-1? How many teeth? Cheers

[@HighVoltageKits]

Its an 11:32t cassette on this bike. The reduction to the crank is 53:1 and then its a 42t up front. Despite this I was encountering some overrun as the speeds got up there. The 1:1 is more a BBSHD thing. That said I was getting some decent speeds on the throttle testing video. Believe it or not we had this thing spinning at 26,000 rpm on the bench!

[@MrDieselfitter]

Thanks!

[@HighVoltageKits]

Appreciated. Merry Christmas 🎅 🎄 ❤️

[@VerumInquirere]

beautiful area where you live sir.

[@HighVoltageKits]

Thankyou. Can't complain :)

[@blackblaze1996]

what would you say is a safe wattage for the Dm02 in terms of overclocking? Stock is 500w right?

[@HighVoltageKits]

Supposedly the firmware has been improved on the controller which is the limiting factor. The motor can handle way more. I have been riding at 1000 watts no issues so far.

[@blackblaze1996]

​@@HighVoltageKitsthat's awesome to know! So worst case I could always just upgrade the controller and keep the motor going. Would you say the stock controller could consistently handle 750w?

[@HighVoltageKits]

@blackblaze1996 potentially now depending on load. I have not tried the latest firmware myself though. I’m going on third hand information

[@MHH3180]

I would like a stock comparison with The TSDZ2

[@HighVoltageKits]

Sounds good.

[@urim225]

I would like that too. On stock 500w because many of us are interested to run this stock and legal. How is this compared to bbs02b 500w 48v. Wich one would you chose ? @HighVoltageKits

[@MHH3180]

@@urim225 the new ToSeven DM02 Outperforms the BBSO2 in every metric.

[@jessepowellmason]

Roughly 1000w to go 30 kph? Seems like a lot no? How is the battery life compared to other motors?

[@HighVoltageKits]

It’s up a grade that averages 10% and in a relatively small gear at the back. So to generate 35 kph is not bad at all. Battery life is as good as anything else really. It’s always a function of how much energy you choose to use. I have done over 60km with this and not run out so far. It’s not a huge motor especially when run at it’s stock 900 watts peak

[@jessepowellmason]

@@HighVoltageKits O okay. Were you pedaling at all?

[@HighVoltageKits]

@jessepowellmason yeah. You can see my cadence rpm on the stats on the right. Whenever there is a number shown the cranks are moving

[@jessepowellmason]

@@HighVoltageKits O, thanks!

[@kamerad4212]

Do you ever get blue skies and sunshine there?

[@HighVoltageKits]

Its funny you noticed that. We usually get so much sun. It's been crap these last few months. Just gray. It's like being back in blighty! 😆