eBike V3 - The Liitokala 26650 DIY ebike battery, 8-24s BMS and spokes

This is the second introductory part of V3 - The batteries, BMS and spokes. It should have a theoretical power in the range of 29kw (38hp) on a bike that weighs less than 40kg so it might be rather brisk :-)
The spokes are from: goo.gl/1sRb5c
The batteries are from: goo.gl/KJkcy3
The BMS is from: s.click.aliexp...

[@mikerhodes9198]

I hope you get out and about in the country this weekend. Enjoy the bike.

[@Vortecks]

If it wasn't heavy rain, I would :-(

[@derBomber69]

I already build myself a battery pack from 264 18650 cells, it works really well, during my normal ride it will not get hot. With the bms i have nearly the same one --> only the 50A one but i only charge to it. The controller is connected directly to the battery. This typ of bms can handle the voltage to the same level during the charging so it make no sense, that the bms is on when i drive my bike

[@ahaveland]

Good idea splitting the battery and making it removable. My partner made a black canvas padded saddle for mine, which I strap down with some webbing. Advantage is that it fits on the top bar or rack, doesn't look valuable, is pretty secure and easily removed by just lifting up, and also fits nicely on a forearm or trolley to carry around while shopping. My other 14S16P _just_ fits into two camera shoulder cases as 2x7S with handles strapped together - and this also flops nicely over the top bar or rack. Also doesn't look like a battery. All the cell packs are strapped together and connected via HXT connectors on 10AWG silicone wire (Tony's favourite connector!), with extra 2mm bullet sockets for balance wires, so makes it very easy to swap out cellpacks, rearrange, or add and subtract cellpacks.

[@Vortecks]

It's going to be an engineers worst nightmare mate. Whatever I do, it's got to house the BMS and the packs can't be physically split unless I can come up with a quick-release power/balance connector. This has got to be a practical, quick and easy to remove pack so I can simply slot it all back in and carry on!

[@ahaveland]

Tough one dat.... A hard saddle containing the bms would be one approach with a connector to the motor and 12V buck. Fortunately you can make any shape from the batteries, or even wrap them around the frame - just so many options to consider that it greatly increases the amount of effort required to find an optimal solution! Could even make a "suicide vest" out of them and run cables from you to the bike, just don't run into a police station shouting arabic! I found that my other bluetooth bms didn't mind cells getting disconnected, or the main path disconnecting between cells 7 and 8 - it would just switch off until reconnected. I found this out miles from anywhere going over rough ground and one of the packs fell apart in the back pannier and some bullet connectors pulled out. After a few seconds wondering why it wouldn't go, I just reconnected everything and all was sweetness and light again. This is one case where a BMS does what it's supposed to do if the battery suffers an unscheduled disassembly event! Seems to me that as long as no balance wires get crossed, it should be OK.

[@davey2k12]

Deffo don't use wires to connect the series packs ....use less wire as possible ay it lol

[@ahaveland]

You're right Dave, less wire as possible... In my case I'm only drawing 30A so can get away with a couple of inches of 10AWG between packs. I'm using a powerwall approach with each of the 224 cells connected to buswires with fusewire. It works well. I value the plug and play capability more than worrying about losing a few milliohms!

[@davey2k12]

@@ahaveland I tried using what I had at the time eg lead acids x4 was a problem with connections and when I switched to 18650s I used cheap blue ones at the start but cells was dropping like flies lol with solder joints was crap cus my iron wasn't hot enough and using a screwdriver to put pressure on the nichrome ribbon but that idea was crappy and vibrations shook screw terminal blocks and battery tabs loose .....then I made a spot welder with a nice transformer I rewinded the secondary and used that plus solder to make the one I use now 8p12s 48v 500w motor it does the job local bout 5mile then charge cus no protection on batteries 20mph ISH .......I need battery and motor upgrade now I wanna try 26650s 4s12p 😁

[@cibie01]

Best not walk in to any airport with a case like that you might find yourself on the news Tony lol. this is going to be another fascinating build really looking forward to it.

[@Vortecks]

.......I've just got out of prison because I took the case through customs. You could have warned me sooner :D

[@Sean_Coyne]

I were at the doctor's yesterday and the guy before me eventually came hobbling out after being seen too. He had a face like a squashed melon and he could hardly move....he'd been doing high speed wheelies on his e-bike when the chain snapped. Face plant on the road and and a week off work, lol.

[@RallyandTrail]

Can't wait too see version 3 coming together. Will you be videoing the making of the battery and adding the bms ?

[@Vortecks]

I'll be doing a far more in-depth build this time seeing as there's so many people who want to build one. It won't be until the winter months though.

[@RallyandTrail]

Vortecks That's fantastic mate .This is going to be the Bible of ebike building 👍🏻

[@DIZZYDAZZLER2011]

Loving the work Tony....I have tried the A123 Lifepo cells in another project and they too give out some serious bursts of energy. Didn't realise you could get 26650 cells in Li-on form!! might use them in my next project if the missus dont find out!!

[@SusiBiker]

Thanks for the links - super useful. Also, thanks for the outtakes - super funny! My eyesight is starting to suck too - bloody old age!! ;)

[@GapRecordingsNamibia]

Hey Tony, Those ........... BMS's are region specific. We out here can't get em cause they don't ship here........ oh like the "thumbnail" crack from @Alpha Adhito, not often one can shave the pun with you...... That was a classic Tony........ chukkles..... Cheers from Nam!

[@parjacpar3077]

Looks like you got a really good bargin there Tony with those spokes love to see you make video when you build battery

[@Vortecks]

Don't worry mate, I'll be documenting every part of this one because of all the questions from last time :-)

[@opollo]

Tony, your be needing an ambulance behind ya mate with this v3 thing. Can't wait to see the chicken holding onto the fly 👍lol

[@Vortecks]

Better still, I might buy an ambulance to tow me everywhere - free travel and immediate medical care! 😂

[@KM-wl1tp]

If the last one was 'absolutely ridiculous' what's this one gonna be?...looking forward to the build...

[@Vortecks]

"Psychosis" :D

[@brentlockyer6850]

Tony time for a base layer of ski undies to keep warm. All the best . Maybe a flux capacitor for V3 Doc

[@Vortecks]

I have flux weakening on the cintroller, does that count? :-)

[@The_Last_Post]

Argh Tone, I waited all week for an update and you give me 6:40! Don’t be stingy 😉 👍

[@Vortecks]

Sorry mate, time is rather limited at the moment. There's a 15:25 ride video next week :-)

[@tonyyates2012]

The theory is that technology makes life easier, that theory is bollocks. Can't wait to see V3 Tony, my breath is well and truly bated.

[@Vortecks]

To be honest mate, I'm looking forward to stripping it down but I'm not looking forward to the headache of designing and building V3!

[@tonyyates2012]

@@Vortecks .Bit a of well researched plagiarism never hurt to get the creative juices flowing fella, did putting the batteries inside a motorbike petrol tank ever cross your mind?, bit of fettling, easier on and off maybe?

[@Vortecks]

Now that's a bloody good idea mate! I'll do some research :-)

[@tonyyates2012]

There's a nice cafe racer style tank over on eBay, £72, it's fairly long and squared off, might be enough room.

[@2crashy545]

I really enjoy your videos which are enjoyable and informative on the technical side. Very informative. But I'm a little worried your going the wrong way with V3 if its going to be even faster than V2? How fast do you want to go on what's basically a bicycle? It's your life, you do what you want Tony. Each to their own. Like you I used to race motorcycles and I enjoy ebikes for the same reasons as you, but I'm not going beyond a certain power.

[@Vortecks]

I built and own the world's brightest torch, I was the first person in the world to fit a jet engine in an RC car and I want the fastest e-bike in the world so I need all the power I can get. I don't think it's enough at the moment because it only has a calculated unloaded speed of 118mph

[@ahaveland]

African or European?

[@ddrl46]

If you don't have a spotwelder yet, the Keenlab kWeld might be worth considering.

[@Vortecks]

I've been in touch with the inventor and I was going to buy one. The problem came when I was going through the checkout...... it was more than double the price of a decent alternative!

[@davidhammond7114]

Hi 👋... hopefully I don’t need a battery just yet , I reckon I’ve got about 300 charges left in my setup, I’ll be posting the setup of my Ebike soon which will be running a QS273 rear hub .... can’t wait to feel the torque 😂

[@Vortecks]

I've still got around 200 charges left in mine but it's not enough. Yes please, let me know when yours is running, I want to see that :-)

[@konto85]

I'm building a battery for my ebike. Do I have to charge every cell exactly the same and then join them together?

[@Vortecks]

As long as they're +/- 0.2v you'll be ok 👍

[@konto85]

My batteries are between 3.68-3.78

[@thelolpostaroundtheworld8953]

Camt wait for it i have you on the ring so i could see all the videos your the best im going to do a stealth bike

[@Vortecks]

I'm not starting it until the winter months. I'm having far too much fun to strip it down now :-)

[@thelolpostaroundtheworld8953]

@@Vortecks yeah ill wait its gonna be fantastic my father told me its gonna be awesome

[@jimhofoss9982]

Really hyped to see you put it all together. 120 of these will make a 30 lb battery....confused a bit tho...alixpress description says 3001-3500 mah nominal, yet says 5000 mah printed on the cell...even at the lowest rating, an 18 amp/hr battery should give you decent range! (as long as the throttle doesn’t get stuck full twist...) Hope to see maiden test- legs flying off back of bike in a horzontal trajectory, with fingertips hooked over the bars! Lol. Test of time will be interested as well, 600 cycle life. Haven’t ever tried to weld cells together, Are you going to use nickel strips and plastic 26650 holders for the cells? Happy building, just about as fun as the riding part! cheers!

[@Vortecks]

'Nominal' means its capacity at 'nominal' voltage (3.7v). When they're fully charged (4.2v) they have the full capacity. Mine will be a 35Ah battery and it'll weigh about the same as a small moon! I don't know about the welding part yet. I might end up having to use busbars because of the current.

[@jimhofoss9982]

Vortecks I know the nickel strips come in different gauges....if your battery build is split into two pieces, this is a good idea....heat dissipation between cells and half the current would help alot!

[@wearemilesfromnowhere4630]

Ok Tony, let me get this straight... You, are a case. Got it! lol. Just sayin'. Looking forward to this. I'll have to come visit and feed you biscuits through the bars on Fridays. Yup, you are a case. Cheers!!

[@Vortecks]

Ahhhh bugger, you got me :D

Bloody hell! I can't order more than 20 from that seller! :)) I'd need 42 pieces... 12s4p but I should place three orders for 50 pieces in total. I'll have to make all these orders and they'll not be here any sooner than 30 days, probably like 90 days. :))

[@Vortecks]

That's the downside but it stops major retailers from ordering pallet loads of them and leaving none for Mr average. I started ordering mine in March at 20 a week and they all got held up in customs. One order took nearly 4 months to arrive.

I guess calling it ” *My* case ” really sums up the things one has to go thru in order to get them :))

[@HolgerBeetz]

Will the batteries fit your old printed battery compartment ? Or do you have to rebuild the complete encasing ? The new BMS looks really nice.

[@Vortecks]

No.... the whole thing has to be redesigned :-(

[@HolgerBeetz]

Uuuhhh....too bad....I smell a lot of work :-( I am currious how your ride turns out. Thumbs up for posting such videos. Since I build and ride e-bikes myself I really enjoy your videos similar to the ones Andy Kirby posts.

[@g1fsh]

lol funny ending Tony i enjoyed it. Im really interested in what parts u are using coz im just about to start getting parts together for my first e bike build. I havent a clue what im doing hahaha

[@Vortecks]

You haven't got a clue? Nor me! V3 will be completely different and I'll have a lot of head scratching to do. I've got some serious modifications to do, to handle the extra power.

[@g1fsh]

@@Vortecks I will b watching mate lol looking forward to it.

[@alphaadhito]

5:30 Should make it the video *Thumbnail* , he-he-he..

[@F0ulRaven]

Love this level of detail but what motor are you going for? Assuming it will be another hub? A 30 bhp bicycle is going to faster to 60 mph than a Fireblade!

[@Vortecks]

I'm using the same hub (MXUS 3K) because it should be able to handle it. As for being faster than a Fireblade - I doubt it. I'm struggling to put the power down as it is. It's a fine balance between spinning the back wheel and lifting the front wheel. With double the power, It'll be somewhat uncontrollable but I need it for the top-end.

[@alen25uk]

tony i think you should build your own spot welder, may an old microwave transformer? there are several good youtube vids with crackin ides for spot welders. keep up the good work mucka

[@Vortecks]

I am doing mate. I've got all the parts but I was hoping that some nice manufacturer would give me a freebie...... looks like I'm building my own :-)

[@alen25uk]

could build it for ya/ with ya. Not to far from you mushy :) dy4

[@dsto7126]

Hey is it difficult to send the 26650 from China to Germany ( or to you in the UK) "German zoll" or tax??? Please help me

[@grantallen1196]

Looks like this is going to be a awesome build Tony. Where did you order those batteries from?

[@Vortecks]

Description updated for you mate. If you order some, do yourself a favour and buy 20 at a time and leave a week between the orders - you won't have to play import duty then (if you're in the UK).

[@ahaveland]

Good advice - I did this with my solar cells too.

[@jamiebhoy18888]

Hang in there chap your doing great 👍

[@Vortecks]

Cheers mate :-)

[@somethingsfishy2695]

I was planning to do a battery with the same batteries

[@MegaNayton]

Have you thought about using one of them bomber bike frames ? Think they am called b52 like what andy kirby has. If you do what your doing now and have the battery as removable surely that would make it light enough to carry about

[@Vortecks]

Too heavy mate. Without the battery, it's still over 40kg and it's taking its toll on my back :-(

[@MegaNayton]

Oh right didnt realise they was that heavy. I was thinking of going that route my self but ive been eyeing up a sur ron which is just under £3000 and requires registering and a cbt there are a few companies in the uk that have them and are selling them road ready but the online sites am saying they have none in stock. Think its a 5000w motor capable of 45mph.

[@MegaNayton]

Dont know what it is but as of late ive noticed more people are noticing what my bike is. Ive had people saying im cheating.. 😂. Ive had people trying to take the piss. Ive also had a bus pull up the side of me at a set of lights open his door on me and start shouting about me speeding and wanting a speeding ticket ect. 😂🖕 < my reaction as the lights went green. But ill admit it now i wasnt doing any more than 15mph i swear 😏

[@Vortecks]

Bollocks to them mate. If they could do it, they would. It's only because they're jealous delinquents who don't want to accept that these are the future.

[@MegaNayton]

Definitely mate as fuel prices and insurance rises people will be looking for alternatives and the ebike will get more popular because of it

[@brookerobertson2951]

I have ordered a bunch of these batteries.. planning on making an Ebike.. can't find much on KZbin with people doing the 26650 power packs so looking forward to seeing how it turns out.. need some tips.. keep up the good work buddy.. 😎

[@Vortecks]

I'll be doing a complete build series as I did with the last build.....keep watching :-)

[@philbrntt]

can i touch your box lol , when you getting back out on your bike to natter, always enjoy that part :)

[@Vortecks]

You most certainly can't..... it's MY box :-) Next week, there's another bike video. I've been tied for with other things recently (developing the BMS app has taken a lot of my time) but things have settled down again now.

[@philbrntt]

@@Vortecks but i wanna touch it 😂

[@philbrntt]

@@Vortecks paused the video ,touched your box and ran away hehe lol

[@Vortecks]

It's wired up to the mains and there's flame-throwers out the side so I doubt it very much if you managed to touch it :-)

[@philbrntt]

@@Vortecks kinky bugger 😂

[@jonasgilje1645]

Hi, how good are these LiitoKala cells? Do they hold up in your bike? I'm planning on building a cheap 750W (44V, 30A max) BBS02 e-bike, and was wondering if these would be a sound choice, in a 12s4p constellation? Cheers.

[@neilkime4065]

v3 going to be a bit of a beast lol

[@Vortecks]

It might not be fast enough yet ;-)

[@davey2k12]

They need spot-weld tabs. It would be a beast pack I got efest 26650 £10 each got 2 to test lol

[@BH4x0r]

efest just rebrands all cells they get tho, you never know what you're really getting with em

[@igarthie8372]

hi i am just starting out on ebike seen most of your videos i was going to buy 48v 1000w wheel kit on ebay but just seen video where you did your thumb in and in the vid i notest that you hub was 36v 200w and you are putting over 70v through the hub, have you done a video on hubs if not could you do one please

[@harleypater7317]

Hi I know you did 123 cycles on these batteries and lost the will to live, but is there any chance of doing more? Can you set one up and cycle it too death or 80%?

[@basingstokedave4292]

Nice one mate. Can u tell me where I can get gen 18650 cells for my e bike I plan to build at a good price?

[@Vortecks]

Cheers Dave. I've updated the description with links to the batteries. I'm not using 18650 cells, they're 26650 because they out-performed all the 18650's in my tests.kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGKrdJSgpZaYma8

[@basingstokedave4292]

Vortecks Cheers mate maybe I'll look in to it a bit more before I dive in. I was also looking at the 21700 cells. What do u think and also may I ask how much u paid for your new batts and BMS CHEERS

[@basingstokedave4292]

Vortecks Are these circuit protected cells I’ve been looking on line but can’t get a good price for ur ones or what I was looking to get the 21700 cell? Guess ur not going to tell me how much u paid for yours are u!

[@FourValveFox]

Did you do a capacity test on the cells?

[@joshuahuang07]

What motor are you using for the v3? the qs 205? Are you also going to do a discharge test on them? My liitokala 21700s can put out 15a as described but after around 3.4 volts, it can't put out that many amps.

[@Vortecks]

I'm using the same motor (MXUS 3K) so it'll probably burn out. Yeah, every battery is the same mate. None of them will deliver the full current when they're nearly flat.

[@joshuahuang07]

Vortecks but then around 3.2v, the pack sags like crazy. and then it becomes unbalanced. some are at 3.26 some are at 2.6v. when i plug it in, the charger flashes red and green. Then after a couple minutes it starts charging and they all balance again. weird thing is i dont have a bms. the pack sits now pretty well balanced

[@herenow2895]

Doesnt 20s = 74v ? not 84 ? Or do they go to 4.2v fully charged ?

[@Vortecks]

It will be 21s. I go by fully charged. 3.7v is the nominal voltage mate.

[@craigschiller1599]

Hey Tony. U been to Ko Samui?? Swear i seen u before.

[@urbandemose7290]

Hi love the video by the way, im building an ebike with an 8000w rear motor. If i use the 26650 what mah batteries would you recommend and what would be the best way to set the batteries out inn. ie, in series/parallel. I'm after a battery which will give me high miles. As I live in the brecon becons so very hilly. After i've built this one i want to build a 2 wheel drive ebike, looking at putting a 4000w hub motor on both the rear and front wheels. whats your thoughts on that. cheers Brian

[@Vortecks]

That's a loaded question mate. It's not as easy as you may think to answer it. It all depends on how fast and how far you need to go? As for 2 wheel drive, I'd suggest staying away from the idea and this is a question I've been asked a lot recently. The forks are designed to do 2 things - 1, Stop you and 2, take up the bumps. Having a 4kw motor on the front will give major stability problems and not to mention the stress on the forks which were designed to have all the forces going the other way. Also, you could never have regen enabled on the front, you'd need double the wiring, double the controllers and double the headaches.

[@AfdhalAtiffTan]

Do I have to pay any taxes to get it shipped to the UK? I plan to buy 100 of it.

[@Vortecks]

They usually ship them in packs of 20. You may be lucky but you might not - I bought 200 of them and I only got stung with one pack (I had to pay £13 import duty)

[@AfdhalAtiffTan]

@@Vortecks KZbin doesn't notify me of your reply 😕. Thank you for your answer, I really appreciate it!

[@Gopherdave1]

What a case! Fuck YEA!!!!

[@arthurbaker5828]

Hyperthrust cleared and counting... 5,4,3,2,1,

[@urbandemose7290]

Hi do you have a link where to purchase the BMS from. Cheers Brian

[@Vortecks]

Hi Brian, There's various suppliers of the BMS. Here's just one of them - www.aliexpress.com/item/Smart-Display-300A-8-24S-Cells-Lithium-Battery-Protection-Board-Balance-BMS-Coulomb-Meter-Lithium-iron/32827394534.html

[@Загороднаяжизньсегодня]

Это хорошие акумы я натаких езжу пока супер

[@JohnHughes2002]

Hanging off the back like a chicken off a fly? How about like a weasel off a kingfisher?

[@jukkapekkaylitalo]

It is gliding fish. But close

[@lordsqueak]

". . . Whot?" Lmao!

[@davidbi9765]

Could you leave a link for the spokes as I am looking at buying some

[@Vortecks]

Description updated for you mate :-)

[@ahaveland]

I need a new rim and spokes too - my back wheel is egg and eight shaped after hitting so many potholes and rocks and replacing spokes almost every week is getting tedious! Magic Pie wheels just weren't designed for Hungarian roads and mountain tracks!

[@davidbi9765]

Vortecks cheers

[@davidbi9765]

Vortecks also where did you get the motorcycle rims as I have been looking for a while and I just can’t find any

[@danieltait123]

Tony, would you sell me your old batteries? Regards Dan

[@Vortecks]

Of course as long as you're in the UK?

[@danieltait123]

Vortecks I sure am! Could you email me? Currently doing a very similar build to yourself [e-mail]

[@felixwe9]

where did you buy all these cells from? Thanks :)

[@Vortecks]

The link is in the description :D

[@felixwe9]

@@Vortecks woops thank you! :)

[@felixwe9]

@@Vortecks I see them fluctuate a lot in price, what would you say is a good price for 10 cells?

[@Vortecks]

The link in description is the cheapest there is for 10 at the moment. The less you buy, the more expensive they are.

[@bobamericana3099]

here is an example of the trike i built mate. www.atomiczombie.com/LodeRunner%20Single%20Rider%20Cargo%20Trike.aspx . i purchased this motor/controller www.goldenmotor.bike/24-inch-front-black-magic-conversion-kit-2/ then i bought me battery packs off ebay...i spent more on 2 battery packs than it cost me to build the trike and buy a decent motor/controller. anyhoots, i cruise at 25mph and its 19 miles to work . no worries. now if i could find a decent fiberglass man that could help me with an enclosure......

[@russ3069]

DAFT!

[@Vortecks]

:D

[@BuggsK100RS]

Sounds like you need a cuppa!!

[@Vortecks]

Absolutely I do mate :-)

[@99unclebob]

wow that is almost 40 hp,hang on

[@Vortecks]

Yup but I don't think it'll be enough to get the world record :--(

[@Gadgetdad007]

It’s not your case it’s definitely my case ! 😜

[@Vortecks]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO it's MY case :D

[@Gadgetdad007]

Vortecks it’s my case 🤪

[@NuttyforNissan]

Should we start sending flowers now.