Eclipse: Second Dawn For the Galaxy First Look by Man Vs Meeple (Lautapelit)

[@MargueriteCottrell]

hey all! thanks for the first look. You may consider timestamps in the beginning of the description if folks are familiar with 1st ed

[@rhogantier8844]

Ty guys for the LIST of changes !!! GREAT JOB!

[@ninek666]

I little bit disapointed that they did not remake expansions as well. Eclipse: Rise of the Ancients is a must have for a first edition.

[@decakjeisaozasuncem8843]

Ninoslav Pleša eclipse is so huge crap of the game that it needs first 327 expansions to actually feel like finished game

[@micstride720]

@@decakjeisaozasuncem8843 Your grammar is crap

[@johanvanaswegen3953]

I was about to order the original but now I am backing the Kickstarter. SUPER EXCITED!!!

[@Gutock]

Any 2p modifications? Co-op mode? Great overview, glad to hear the missile nerf!

[@Oepogean]

Great review guys! No wonder this is on your top 10 list, Jeremy. This seems like it would be a blast to play!

[@cfosburg]

I’m excited to back this - never played this, had my eye on it for a while now. Any estimation on how much I need to save for just the base game? ...I need to start saving now 😉. $80 😃 $100 😊 $120 😮 $150? 😱 $MORE 😦 Thanks, loved this preview! Chris

[@meeple]

Oh boy......2 questions now of which I do not know the answer. I will try to find out.

[@cfosburg]

ManVsMeeple I understand their hesitation to post the price, but it sure would help backers to prepare properly. I’m not made of money you know! 😂 And... I just bought some MP: Pantheon expansions- ouch! 🤯😢🤩

[@meeple]

cfosburg I have no idea the price. I have not seen the KS page yet.

[@RC-co4ne]

i would love to see the 2 page list of changes

[@VernonPiperSR]

I am really looking forward to this. Great breakdown on the game. I've been a fan for a long time and I'm really happy to see new ship miniatures!

[@DBmsn]

The player ships are the same as in Ship Pack One; the new minis are NPCs and Orbitals (maybe Monoliths too but I didn't notice one in the video).

[@mobileuploads3623]

I have the original game and first expansion still sealed. I wonder if it’s worth upgrading to this cool new version.

[@Michael-xv9ku]

They start talking about changes at 3:06 if you are already familiar with the game.

[@WorkmanChoral]

What about expansions? I love this gave, and have both expansions. I love that is getting an update, but I would be sad to have less content overall. So will the Kickstarter also include revamped editions of the expansions?

[@admscotty704]

Any change to the rule about tile drawing/placement? One of the worst problems eclipse suffers from is bad luck on your first 2-3 tile draws...

[@technoleo9]

Hyped up! Will there be an upgrade pack for the oldies who have continued the love for Eclipse over the years? I don't think I'll be able to pitch in $100+ for rebuying a big game in my collection 😥

[@Yarnooee]

omg that orbital minis...im sold

[@randybookman]

Reposting from the BGG Thank you guys for doing this video. Does this include any of the previous expansions? Did they do something similar to TI4 where it's the base game, but a lot of the things included in expansions are included in the new base game? As a huge fan of the game, I'm trying, but I'm just not sold on this 2.0... yet. I realize that this is probably not marketed to me, but folks who haven't yet discovered this game or only picked up the base game. That said, I've already spent a lot of time and money on this game. I own all the expansions, the mini expansions, the ship packs (which they never fully completed)and other 3rd party goodies. While the tweaks sound interesting, I'm curious to know how much better they make the game and what couldn't be done without a simple rule revision or upgrade pack.

[@shady610]

it looks cool. what's the play time? I witnessed a 5 hour session at a meetup and decided I wasn't up for that.

[@jyoung10]

Any word from the designer or publisher about optional co-op or semi co-op rules? That would push this to a no-brainer purchase as my gf does not like to play games where attacking other players can be advantageous. I don’t mind the conflict myself but would love to have the option.

[@noodlemans]

J Young same here. Co-op against an enemy AI would be amazing addition to the game.

[@Caleena1989]

When will the game be released / when does the Kickstarter launch?

[@steviev2504]

I already have TI4 and Exodus Proxima... do I need this? No... but you're making me think I'll need to buy it anyways.

[@cocumentico]

Hey, what about the tile that you can carry 2 interceptors? I think its a very good and funny tile. Please add it :D

[@davidgregory917]

One issue I wondered about was if the new round player order would correspond with the order in which players completed the previous round...similar to Carson City. Regarding the current game, once the first player passes, if that player is next to you, making you the player immediately clockwise from that player, I would tend to stretch myself knowing I could get the jump on the other players in the new round. In my experience, it seemed to give an unfair advantage. So, i created a house rule to track when players bow out of the current round. Any mention of this changing...or will I have to keep house-ruling?

[@DBmsn]

Pass order being the next round's turn order is an official variant rule that was introduced with Ship Pack One. It isn't publicly known whether the new base edition will include it.

[@Propbuddha]

Thanks for the preview. The designer mentioned on BGG that the Hydran Progress Home sector had changed and they start with 6 Science. I don't see it listed above. Can you confirm?

[@TripleGMS]

screen shot at 1:46 confirms that they start at 6 science.

[@Propbuddha]

Thanks! 2 more Qs. Is that Ion Disruptor correct? The old one was just one Ion + Initiative. Plus can you post the costs of the Rare techs? Wondering if anything changed there...

[@Mentat1231]

When will we get to know the stretch goals?? :-) Do we have to wait until the actual launch?

[@Lethimer]

Is it going to Kickstarter? If so when? If not, when is it available for release? :D Love the vid btw, thanks a lot.

[@zeSP4M]

It's supposed to be launched in a couple of days. "Supposedely"

[@joandastarac8778]

Will there be a french version for the KS campaign ?

[@Thesussysuscat]

Looks nice but sadly I've already spent too much on the original and expansions

[@LeeroyPorkins]

How much will it be at retail?

[@bubbamudd614]

Great video! Eclipse is probably my favorite game of all time. However, I don't see anything in the new version that entices me to back it, unfortunately. Am I missing something?

[@meeple]

bubbamudd614 Tons of rules tweaks, better storage, updated art and graphic design, new miniatures and unannounced stretch goals which we can’t share.

[@bubbamudd614]

ManVsMeeple thanks. The stretch goals may be the determining factor. I do have player board overlays that make a huge difference to me. I love that the resources don't get knocked around. Maybe that'll be a stretch goal 😁

[@KAM1138a]

I'll be looking for you at Origins.

[@elijahfuller9693]

I have a friend that loves this game, however I had a few issues with it. I only had two plays of the game but a few things made me not want to play again, even though I believe this game had a few wonderful ideas embedded into it. One was the missiles, of one of the players maxed out all his ships on missiles and his fleet was pretty much unstoppable after that. The second was exploring seemed too random and if I remember right there was a cost to it, and paying for something that I would need to pass on and then an opponent draws the next tile and it was wonderful. It rubbed me the wrong way, did the exploring get revamped? That would make a difference for me. Last one was the economy system was pretty harsh for newer players of the game, I found that combined with the exploring system turned this game into a punishing one if you didn't know what you were doing. I would be very interested to hear the changes to the economy and exploring. If possible, I'd like to see all the changes, I didn't like the original but I strongly think a few tweaks could make me really enjoy this one, if they addressed my issues.

[@LookAtTheBacon]

Elijah Fuller Exactly my point. The exploration is way too random and punishing. Let's pray to god they changed it too.

[@elijahfuller9693]

Yes, exactly, I actually felt that the game thrashed me way more than my opponents ever did in those two plays.

[@bialix1]

You can play without missiles and I believe Descendants of Draco has ability to select 1 tile of 2 drawn.

[@elijahfuller9693]

We played another game of eclipse this weekend and we just removed the missiles and played a variant where for the #3 tiles we draw two and keep one. That was better, however our variant caused the good tiles in #3 to be gone super fast. I still felt at the end of a 3 hour 3 player game that I barely accomplished much. I just barely gotten into position to where I could seriously battle in round 9, yet the person i was set to fight had upgraded his ships to counter mine and at that point I just didnt have turns to fix my mistake. Don't mistake what I was saying into I wish the game lasted longer, that was not the case at all. My complaint is that the game lasts a long time and i didn't feel i had done much at all, I felt like I had played a one hour game in a 3 hour time slot. The game also gives players that are leading more turns than the other players and every game I had played turned into a runaway leader because of it. After 3 plays of the game, I still do not think I am any good at the game. I will play the new version if someone in my game group picks it up but I will not ask to play it, we have rising sun, scythe and i hope soon Heroes of land air and sea. I feel enjoy all of these much more than eclipse. This one just isn't for me I guess.

[@blacko3539]

It's easy to see why missiles look super but they really weren't, they gained a reputation with our group of being the kiss of death to chances of winning with our group. Eclipse really benefits from regular playing, if you played it 3 times in 3 weeks with the same people game time should shrink to 1 to 2 hours. You mention exploration, Eclipse is odd in that you can get "trapped" by ancients and basically do nothing for the first 2/3 turns banking the small amount of income (1/3rd of the game) and still be in a good position to win. Which is unintuitive to people used to the rush, rush,rush,build,build,build of most other games. Do you want a game which you "get" straight away Eclipse won't do it for you, and I don't blame you we are spoilt for choice with new great games being released constantly, so you play x, they y, the z and q the week after not being pick up _> play _> win is something different, but requires a specific group of players to work.

[@lordatreus3]

Will Eclipse 2nd edition be out on general release?

[@AndyP998]

yes

[@KristoVaher]

I think that Eclipse has been eclipsed by Twilight Imperium 4 and Scythe in epic ameritrash/euro arena. It feels 'old' even with these tweaks.

[@alicia1465]

Do you think Eclipse is worth playing with just two players?

[@Bajka98765]

Any 4X game gets better with 3 or more

[@davedogge2280]

It's looking good. There won't be an upgrade pack for 1st edition owners ???

[@meeple]

That I do not know for sure. I will have Lautapelit and Kolossal chime in to answer. Good question. My guess is: I don't know. There are a LOT of small changes throughout....from the control boards, to the species boards, to the tiles, etc....it looks completely different than the original in 99% of the components.

[@noeldillabough2153]

No they have said several times on BGG that there will not be an upgrade for 1st Edition.

[@Grey_Chant]

Biggest reason I won't be backing this. I have spent hundreds on Eclipse, expansions and custom upgrades. Not offering an upgrade kit and forcing me to re-buy tons of stuff I already have shows a lack of supporting your existing customers.

[@noeldillabough2153]

Well we have to think of it like a business; they're literally using Kickstarter to see if its worthwhile doing and the results of funding to fund "if only" stretch goals. I wonder if they offered say just the new tech tiles and a new rulebook how many would just back that and lower the overall funding. I'm a tad biased because I want crazy stuff that can really only appear on a very successfully funded kickstarter.

[@davedogge2280]

I'll have to weigh up the benefits of owning the second one Vs the cost on the kickstarter and then we'll see if I back the 2nd.

[@nydaloth]

Can you provide info on projected MSRP ?

[@timsmith31]

Prototype insert doesn't look like it holds sleeved cards. :-/ Otherwise, it looks awesome.

[@jeromedemeyere1002]

Tim Smith there are no cards

[@zeSP4M]

There is no cards in this game :P

[@timsmith31]

Nice, one of the trays looked like it had cards in it.

[@paulbrown5937]

I will be at Origins this year, I would LOVE to play 2nd edition! If you guys need players let me know! So many great changes in this edition I'm so happy lol

[@TheLazzanova61]

I really want to back this game up but I am affraid because of the following reason: I also have Star Craft: TBG and it never got played in our group. Well actually we only played it twice. Our group really loved Rising Sun, (We have the KS Daimyo pledge version) and currently this game is played the most. I am affraid that Eclipse will have the same fate Just like SC:TBG. Also this is the same reason why I havent bought TI: 4th edition. So What should I do? Would love to hear your advice.

[@elijahfuller9693]

We are also having this issue in my group the longer games are getting very few plays atm, while shorter games like social deduction, Century, Viral, Five Tribes and others are getting numerous plays. For now our most played longer game is Argent the Consortium, I think Rising Sun would be up there but the time it takes to setup is nuts... We have only played Rising Sun twice, and I bought everything for it in the KS, we will see if that changes after my storage solution comes in... I wouldn't recommend TI 4th ed just because of the time it takes to play, unless time was not an issue. I would also recommend you look at Heroes of Land, Air and Sea for your group it sounds like you guys might only have room for one 4X game. I have started talking with my group about larger game purchases and getting their two cents on these kickstarter games, this could help you guys save money to buy games your group is actually wanting to play.

[@TheLazzanova61]

Elijah Fuller Thanks for your recommendation. I will definately consider it.

[@GPlewright]

Eclipse 2nd will go for one round less and has better storage solutions coming with the game so set up will be eased. Eclipse is very much a euro feeling game which can have a dry feel to it. It will be interesting to see if the sum of the new changes will make this a more vibrant gaming experience - the potential is there and with a bit more variety coming in the base box may just be what this game needs.

[@maverickhunter1312]

This or Empires Of the Void 2?

[@stevenbishop6741]

Maverick Hunter I love everything Red Raven, but I think this will have much more draw and replayability.

[@cfosburg]

Maverick Hunter I have Empires of the Void II and I’ve seen Eclipse played and studied the rules. Empires of the Void II, at its core, isn’t going for a Space 4X. It has a lot of familiarity to Islebound, but also reminds me of Scythe. Components are gorgeous, I don’t think there is another space game out there with planets as rich and detailed as EoTV II! It plays in less than 3 hrs. It has light combat, light alliances with alien planets, light exploration mechanics, and no exploitation. I love EOTV II! It’s a ton of fun to play and I think it fits perfectly as a mid weight space game, right in between 4X and super light space games. I’m also getting the new Eclipse- I’m ready and hungry for an epic space game!

[@maverickhunter1312]

So Empires of the Void 2 is 3x same as Horizons by Daily Magic Games.

[@elijahfuller9693]

You might also want to look at Heroes of Land Air and Sea it is in kickstarter now as well and is a 4x warcraft-like fantasy.

[@barryhatchel]

IMHO Empires of the Void II for epic story, Eclipse for galaxy spanning economic sim. Personally I own EoVII, haven't enjoyed eclipse after several games and haven't quite gotten around to shelling out for TI4.

[@noeldillabough2153]

OMG TAKE MY MONEY lol. I have everything in 1st edition as well as a ton of Etsy improvements etc but I'm still all in for the new one. Here's hoping for some extra special stretch goals!

[@noeldillabough2153]

Very much like the rules changes to missiles, computers and drives.

[@paulorod13]

Is this better than Heroes of the Land, Air & Sea?

[@elijahfuller9693]

Paulo Arantes I imagine that depends. Do you like dice rolling more than card combat? Do you like the space or Warcraft-like fantasy theme better? Do you like a random map or exploration tokens better? Do you like a 3-4 hour game or prefer a 2-3 hour game? Does the ship upgrades interest you more than having buildings upgrade all your troops? Would you like to cast spells in a 4X game? Would you rather have a more complex game at the cost of it being unfriendly to new players? Eclipse is known for its economic system, which was very cool, but poor financial decisions can set you back further when trying to fix and might even leave someone playing an winnable game for an hour or more. Would you like to be able to have an action on your opponent's turn similar to Puerto Rico? Do you like set rounds or have various end game conditions that can motivate certain player actions or interactions? From reviews I have seen Heroes is more streamlined, easier for newer players and has a quicker playtime than Eclipse. There are reviews on Heroes on KZbin, you might want to check them out.

[@paulorod13]

Elijah Fuller thank you so much! I've watched many hours of HoLAS, but I'm not familiar with Eclipse and was wondering which would be better to back on Kickstarter now :) your questions really helped, I'm gravitating towards Heroes, but I'll wait to see more Gameplays of the new eclipse since there are many changes. Thanks again!

[@elijahfuller9693]

Glad that helped, I really want to back HoL AS, much more than eclipse. I think it fits better with my group being the shorter, easier to get into game and most of us prefer warcraft-like minitures to spaceships. Eclipse does have its merits and could easily be a better pick depending on what players were looking for.

[@randybookman]

YES! If you want a 4x game this is way way way better. If you like the tiny epic games more than go with HoL&S. That said, I was disappointed in Heroes.

[@elijahfuller9693]

Randolph Bookman you have me a little confused it sounded as though you liked the game but you don't. Could you clarify?

[@TheHighGoalkeeper]

"...game trays..." Sir, you are overselling it at this point.

[@hellboy7424]

Hyyyyyyyype !!! Spanish ?? When ??

[@thomasrobb1398]

It looks like, from the video, that the technology tiles are still small and hard to read. Our group does not play Eclipse anymore because it was such a pain as each player would say, "What technologies are available now?" You would have to tell them, or they would have to get up and go look. There are so many other games where everything is easily accessible to all players. You could put them in the middle, but that's where the planet tiles need to go. More accessible is more efficient - isn't Eclipse supposed to be an efficiency game?

[@DirMrsHQoftheScreamingGhouls]

This was a problem for me too. First few games I played I had to take a photo of the techs every round on my phone! Now I've played loads of times I dont need a photo anymore, but then I also am the person who takes the techs out of the bag, I call them out and say which ones are new. Basically if its new, everyone wants it, even if its just to block other players from getting it, so you really only have to remember whats new.

[@boardgamehero2999]

Very awesome improvements but the solo game is missing

[@carlosacevedo9818]

First? Good looking game

[@aminzarei8078]

HEY PLZ READ THIS ECLIPSE DESIGNERS I AM A ECLIPSE PLAYER I WAS EXPECTING MORE CHANGES LIKE MORE WAYS TO DEVELOP UR ECONOMY NOT HORIZONTALLY BUT GIVING IT MORE VERTICAL DEPTH LIKE UPGRADING UR MINES ETC... AND THOSE SHIPS ARE EVEN UGLIER THAN LAST VERSION.

[@TheGerogero]

Tactical bankruptcy ftw

[@AceIOMUK]

Missiles cost one power, that isnt enough of a nerf. Dealbreaker.

[@meeple]

Chris Winterburn I’ve played Eclipse over 2 dozen times and I’ve never had a problem in our games with misspelled ships. I understand the frustration some feel for the upgrade but when playing with a group of experienced players there are ways to deal with them quite easily. It’s like any other game, if you let a player abuse a power and no one else puts their strategy in check, then I see that more of a fault with the players then the game. I could cite dozens of games with powerful cards/upgrades and if you let me abuse them then I will win 90% of the time.