ECML - Peterborough to Doncaster (and Flying Scotsman) Review ~ Train Sim World 4

Oh look, yet another Dovetail Games product has proven to be a massive letdown; that should come as a surprise to no-one at this point. This time, I'll be discussing the ECML - Peterborough to Doncaster route plus the preserved LNER 'A3' steam locomotive.
The biggest problem with the route is its incredibly boring, restrictive and linear nature. This is the least-interesting section of the highly-requested East Coast Mainline, complete with only five stations and a recreation of the LNER Class 801 that's ruined by lousy reused sounds and all units showing the number '801234' (yes, even the five-car 801/1s), amongst other problems that shouldn't even be here.

[@Ozzy-does-stuff]

They worst mistake was not including the 91

[@folkeklarstrom3668]

Agree. Hope they add it later at least.

[@pengibuildss]

They will most likely make it as a separate DLC so that they can make more money

[@zetaopress2389]

Most likely DTG or a third party developer will make one. Despite the roadmaps being out there's still good chances we would get surprise DLC's in the process that were never on the roadmap.

[@blackking7512]

Picking this section was a mistake anyway.

[@a.rentertainment2232]

At least with the already existing HST in the game, we can just give it the LNER livery and boom you have the HSTs back on the ECML 😌

[@derekwildstar731]

It's a shame. We all knew TSW4 was a cash grab and by the unfinished look and poor route choices of what we got, we were right.

[@DKS225]

Stoke Bank is renowned for other records as well as Mallard's HST Power Cars 43102 and 43159 achieved the world speed record for diesel traction on The 1st of November 1987 with a creditable 148.5mph. In September 1989 an unofficial speed record was achieved by an IC225 led by 91110 reaching around 162mph almost precisely that reached by The long defunct APT-E at Beattock 10 years earlier.

[@ludwigtails]

Something that you have forgot to mention is that. The pantagraph on the 801s are wrong. At whatever direction they are going (not counting 5+5 cars). Their pantagraph is usually raised at the back instead of the front

[@TheTrainspotterFromTauranga]

I didn't notice that issue; I would've mentioned it in the video had I realised it was there.

[@nathanchan4653]

If TSW so bothered with BR steam period, I highly suggest TSW make Settle to Carlisle line set in 1920s to early 1950s and it’s a “remake” of the original MSTS (Microsoft Train Simulator) route but consisting of - Flying Scotsman in 1920s version - GWR Castle - Royal Scot - LNER B1 - BR standard Clans Difference is that all locomotives are playable and one scenario is a remake which is “Royal Scott Rescue”

[@olivergould3878]

Lol James May's toy stories reference - I wish we got some GWR steam locomotives. We definitely need a Deltic

[@Atrail_Mckinley4786]

This was indeed the worst section of the ecml that DTG chose to make. There just isn't much to do on this route. Also there is no remarkable scenery on the route at all. They should've made the line go to York, made the line go to London or made the section in Scotland which has much more interesting scenery. The Class 801's do have a diesel engine, however they are only used for emergencies such as the pantograph not working. I don’t understand why DTG missed the issue with 801's driving with their Diesel engines on. DTG basically admitted that they made this section because it was the easiest section to make

[@TheTrainspotterFromTauranga]

A route this bland isn't worthy of being included as a core route in the base game, if you ask me.

[@Atrail_Mckinley4786]

@thetrainspotterfromtauranga769 Then it probably wouldn't have sold well as a standalone DLC.

[@ElmtreeLine]

DTG decided on this section because of the section that the Flying Scotsman made its fastest run on. Plus it allowed trains to "run at max speed" which is what many players are looking for. They said if your not into speedy driving then this isn't the route for you. For me, the Azuma is lovely, the freight behind a 66 is fine, but other than that its a bland & boring route.

[@jasonmoffat679]

Dovetail didn't reuse the 377 sounds that was AP mate

[@The-Flat-Capped-Gamer]

I think the most highly requested section of the ECML was York to Newcastle. Because it is around the same length as Peterborough to Doncaster, there's a reasonable amount of stations (7 in total) which is is more than Peterborough to Doncaster, but it's not an extreme amount like London to Peterborough and it's not too hard for DTG to handle. The scenery and timetable is also a lot better with much more variety and options.

[@TB76Returns]

The funny thing is that I imagined this very route being on TSW, but set in 1974/75 with BR Blue, the Deltics (as well as the 47 with Headcodes, and Split Headcode 37), 4-character headcodes, the newer MK2 coaches which the Deltics hauled as opposed to the older MK2s seen on NTP and Blackpool Branches. Yes, it was from Peterborough but it extended to York, somewhere where this addon is missing, and would include Selby too, as the diversion hadn't been built in 74/75. This IMO would of been a better incarnation than what we have here. I don't mind the IET, as I have ridden on it a few times since 2019, but I feel the version I imagined, IE, the 70s before the HSTs came around would of been a lot better, plus going to York, somewhere I have known since childhood (remembers listening to the HST Valenta scream as a little boy)

[@gabi10cg]

But didn't the train also have a diesel engine? Even if it is slow af

[@potatoman451]

Emergency use and only 1 engine. 800 is the dual unit

[@KevinDeCastro2120am]

The 801 has a diesel engine, but it's used for emergencies only. (If you know that, No offense though).

[@TheTrainspotterFromTauranga]

I always thought the 801 was purely an electric multiple unit without a diesel engine.

[@supermarionathan1426]

Still doesn’t excuse the fact that the Ai 801 services are running their diesel engines in *ELECTRIC* mode!

[@rikipondi]

Why not London King's Cross to York?

[@potatoman451]

That's over 150 miles

[@unionofsouthafricasuperfan6333]

If they added the 91 i belive they should add york and leeds as its only a little bit further and it gives a perfect terminous for 91s

[@horsepowergeek4885]

17:40 you just unlocked part of my childhood with that reference my god

[@Silvera-Avian]

FYI, the 801 has a single diesel generator for emergencies and yard use and DTG did actually model its functionality. It's nice DTG included this, surprising in fact as they could have gotten away with this pretty easily on an all-electric route, but obviously mainline services should not be using it at all. I can only assume this is another issue with AI trains and turning on (like how no units start cold in timetable mode as the AI cannot start them from that state) - but this is really something DTG should fix after several years.

[@marcmurray]

What annoys me the fans on roof of azuma do not work also 158 dmu does not have diesel smoke . I have put numerous tickets. Also did not reply.

[@jackwei22]

Should've done London Kings Cross to Peterborough but apparently it's too hard because of too much scenery as an excuse. MSTS in regards to expansions was good value for money and included extensions for routes too. Making Tracks was one of the best companies when it came creating locos and great expansions like great eastern who added free patch extensions too except the Ipswich to Norwich extension to modern day.

[@LincolnshireTrainSpotter225]

I will say Matt himself said during his charity stream he is determined to get a Aussie route for TSW as he said one of the team members in Australia and has experience with the routes and locos. That’ll probably end up being in TSW6 or something 💀

[@TheTrainspotterFromTauranga]

And I'm worried it'll still be a disappointing route choice. Even just one commuter line (regardless of city) would be fine by me.

[@potatoman451]

He wants to bring Australia but Australia is giving a hard time so no license yet

[@PROTSW4]

What would be the best is something in Sydney, with excellent variety and long services, even though the route length wouldn't be that long, like the T4 line, only about 60 km but takes about 1 and a half hours to complete.

[@LincolnshireTrainSpotter225]

@thetrainspotterfromtauranga769 I'll be honest I don't have any faith on what they make but maybe it'll be a good one (by the like smallest chances ever) as I've always wanted to see what it's like in the Australian railroad and how it all functions

[@JohnDeere1025r]

That azuma thing can turn into a diesel train

[@tsungiraichiramba]

London to Peterborough covers the same distance of 75 miles and it has 24 stations. I totally agree that it would’ve been way more fun to drive. I got Peterborough to Doncaster and it’s boring to say the least

[@randomtrainfan6501]

This is why I'm always careful when buying dtg routes/ add ons. I only buy them if they actually have very good reviews or if it's something I'm DESPERATE to have in game. I'm glad just trains is now making routes for tsw as they actually seem to somewhat listen to the community because they said they will always try to make non-linear routes as the community actually wants. I also really liked the idea of their Blackpool branches. And the fact they included multiple variants and liveries of each train is very nice

[@Britishdumber]

class 801 has a deisel engine for shunting and yard use, can reach about 50 mph on diesel

[@user-yg6ng1cu4u]

That's completely incorrect. It can only be used under and up to 5mph, not 50.

[@Frowny13]

Definitely my favorite of the three routes, and yet still leaves a lot to be desired. I’m glad that we finally have the 801 and Flying Scotsman in Train Sim World, but the route choice was not good. Overall, none of the three routes are that good. I like the concepts, but as usual they messed up on the execution. They could’ve kept with the theme of an Austrian route, California commuter route, and high speed UK route had they just chosen better ones. But this is Dovetail games at the end of the day.

[@True_NOON]

It legit is 🌳🌳🌳🛤🌳🌳

[@potatoman451]

Looking at it from just an azumas perspective with no layers, it's actually more boring to run it from kgx to pbo since it becomes another lgv route where you just go a to b with the occasional stop. Pbo-don gets more use for the azuma since it has a more varied stopping pattern. Plus pbo-don is a racetrack and the scotsman has history there. Dtg didn't want to make another commuter route but give something different. Regarding sounds, that's just due to the 801 soundset from Armstrong. They reused electrostar running sounds at certain speeds. Dtg were only able to record static azuma sounds since they couldn't actually run it anywhere. It's not 100% electrostar sounds either since dtg also had to modify it

[@jasonmoffat679]

But then you can have 387 and 700 layers so no its not more boring

[@kuzatheaviator]

Uh no, because if they added commuter units to SEHS, they can add it to ECML Oh wait, we already have a 313 and 387, so it could just be reskinned. The 717 is literally a 6 car 707 with a different cab.

[@TheTrainspotterFromTauranga]

The 313 in TSW is the refurbished Southern variant, which only ran on third-rail, so the model would need to be heavily altered in order to depict the original dual-voltage units.

[@kuzatheaviator]

@@TheTrainspotterFromTauranga it would just need to get a pantograph and dual voltage features, which has been done before so isn't hard to do

[@jasonmoffat679]

The 377 sounds were used in the original ap pack so you can't really blame dtg there

[@spyfan62591]

Imo I still endorse dovetail since it's the only good train sim on ps4. But I respect you stating you're true opinion and not cowering behind a moniter. Mass respect. Edit, im considering getting the dilux when its on sale in winter or so, only reason. Scotsman and I'm still on tsw2

[@StrikeEagle78]

Another excellent review! Keep taking Direct To Garbage to task for their lacklustre efforts!

[@TheTrainspotterFromTauranga]

There's all sorts of mocking nicknames for these developers, all while fitting the same initials: Direct To Garbage Doesn't Test Games Downright Terrible Grifters Declining Trust (in) Games (I thought of those last two on the spot).

[@ElmtreeLine]

One point regarding other trains for this DLC, adding the Lumo would have required additional Licences which would have increased the DLC price.

[@matei5929]

At $40 per route I think there's a bit of wiggle room

[@YukariAkiyamaTanks]

Personally i think they use ews is because it may be license free as the ews doesnt exist anymore

[@aiden3170]

I wonder if Barnstaple to Bideford will be the next UK route, complete with the Hornby Flying Scotsman with realistic chuffing sounds😉😉

[@Zugdurchfahrt311]

13:55 the CLass 66 is kinda like the DB BR 185.2 of the UK Routes

[@bwoah4645]

I can already see reskined trains as part of a loco bundle .

[@SaxophoneChihuahua]

I think DTG is low on cash. train sim world has lower playercount than train simulator.

[@markcovington4761]

I love your reviews i agree with most of what you say i will say the Flying Scotsman is a great addition to the game

[@thomaswatkiss9484]

I live near Doncaster Station and it is accurate but the train on the Leeds to Doncaster class is incorrect as it is a 331 cafe class but this is dovetail of course they reuse a train

[@imaginox9]

Some people will call it nitpicking, but this little thing also bothers me with the 801: in order to operate the doors using the guard's panel located next to some passenger doors, you MUST press E to stand at the guard's position. You can't simply click the buttons. Not only that, but your local door will close on you at the same time as all the other doors. The only trains with guard panels at passenger doors that behave realistically are the Class 158 and 484 + the 1938 Tube Stock (even if the doors are way too fast, the guard's panel behaves correctly), none of which are DTG products

[@FFTGL24-cs3bw]

If king cross to Peterborough is in TSC made by dtg then how is it not in TSW4

[@samhartnett8700]

Question of the Year

[@gtasandman]

Ive been waiting for this video I love AVL and i love voralberg but this route has been more boring than kassel wuzburg for me. I get some people like high speed train runs but its literally 1 stop or just end to in and almost a straight line. basically not doing anything.

[@potatoman451]

There's more to it than just a to b runs. You got local services, express services and other variations

[@Atrail_Mckinley4786]

@@potatoman451 it's 4 stops that are 15 minutes apart. It's a 125mph snoozefest. There isn't much to do at all

[@gtasandman]

@@potatoman451 I know there is some stopping services but Its still just go in a straight line stop here wait 6 mins then go to next straight forward point. There isnt much variation.

[@rikipondi]

I get that you are frustrated when you literally suggest DTG reuse a train

[@liviajumara6423]

bro, when u were showing the fl and gbrf 66s, how did u get the transfer table on Doncaster works to move?

[@TheTrainspotterFromTauranga]

I just pressed the 'G' key; same as I do for junctions and turntables.

[@westernregion104]

5:07 opportunity to put the Caledonian sleeper service in TSW

[@thatlocomotiveguy]

As a base route, this is incredibly boring, with only 5 stations, and although the point of this route is the high-sped express nature, it doesn't stop you from getting incredibly bored. The only exciting parts to this route are the setting up of the Class 801 and 66, while the Flying Scotsman, even though looking as good as it does, is incredibly simple for a steam locomotive. I agree that it is rather boring to have yet another BR Brunswick Green livery, however the add-on was meant to represent Flying Scotsman at the time of her Centenary, so I can forgive them for it. A perfect idea for DTG, who will never listen to their community and keep cranking out frankly mid and half-assed DLCs, would be to do route extensions, and the idea of Doncaster - York or Peterborough - Kings Cross. In the video, you mentioned the '801234' bug. This isn't a bug, as it USED (heavy emphasis on the USED) to spawn 801234 every single time, making it a bloody game feature. Now, it is a bit more varied, but still lacking the different paint variants.

[@thatlocomotiveguy]

Also, as far as I am aware on my console, DTG have fixed the diesel engine problem and have provided the electric sounds for the 801 (while still using the 377 sounds).

[@spottymaxy1628]

I get more of a sense of speed from operating a Southern 377 on a semi fast route to a Brighton

[@thatlocomotiveguy]

@@spottymaxy1628 Definitely true, as there are more stations to vary the service patterns, and there are also enough stations skipped that it feels like you are actually going somewhere, rather than watching copied flat textures.

[@RomanChaika-tg5pw]

At least it is not as boring as Kassel - Würzburg in tsw3

[@EuropeanRailfanAlt]

Thankfully I'm more into the US and German/Swiss/French/Austrian routes, so if I ever want to buy TSW4, I will get the regional pack for Austria (and the Vectron).

[@olivergould3878]

Oh and there was a Gorden reference from Whistles and Sneezes. I think somewhere it isn't wrong but we just don't do it!

[@bensisneroz7027]

Dovetail same crap every year. One reason why I switched to Simrail. Even though it’s in early access it’s still 100 times better than train sim world 4

[@jwrailve3615]

This is the worst route I’ve gotten only one worse is the 4$ Christmas dlc feels like your running the same one mile scenery block for two hours straight

[@bleentrean5849]

15:52 Which similarly went crash bang wallop into something

[@Southeastern-Train-Channel]

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

[@thedon404]

How do you get the virgin?

[@The-Flat-Capped-Gamer]

1:18 Totally agree

[@TheHSTguy]

EWS is incorrect because it been brought out by DB and is GBRF that operator in that region the most

[@potatoman451]

No gbrf license is most likely the reason why

[@WhisperingWiltshire]

But you can still Operate GBRf By using A Livery (Made by you or Creator’s Club) of a Class 66

[@fernandomonramos1129]

I wanted to ask you hopefully you can respond do you like tsw classic more then the tsw world

[@TheTrainspotterFromTauranga]

TSC has a better (and much wider) variety of available content, but I prefer the experience of playing TSW.

[@taynemiller916]

I reckon the Cleveland to Roma st station in qld would be great but it’s dovetail so🤷‍♂️

[@rubberduck05]

No York ?? The route from York to Edinburgh is amazing .. is that on this game?

[@asjbfjbkaw]

no lol

[@Jonsku124Transit]

ye dovetail is lazy af @@asjbfjbkaw

[@folkeklarstrom3668]

I HOPE that an InterCity 225 gets added. PLEASE DOVETAIL. It would make this boring route a little bit better.

[@BCrossing]

AI trains sounding like diesels is a funny sound mistake. Missing 91, Lincoln, York, maybe Selby or Leeds, other 80X variants, running/rolling starts/stops in timetable... Then I'd be happy

[@e575fho]

The trouble with all this is people keep chucking money at Dovetail in the hope that all will be good.Dovetail have never been any different. Greediest devs I know of offering the worst support possible!

[@holytrucker2153]

ive ditched dovetail for jr east train simulator instead

[@phillipdunn7486]

Beggars can’t be choosers

[@phillipdunn7486]

Dude it’s the fucking desert. Most of Southern California is covered in it. Don’t expect anything spectacular about it.