Economics of Immigration: Myths and Realities

Prof. Ben Powell debunks the following three popular myths about immigration:
1) Immigrants are a net drag on our economy
2) Immigrants steal our jobs
3) Immigrants depress our wages
Additionally, Professor Ben Powell examines how immigration is related to foreign aid, prosperity, property rights, crime, welfare, voting, citizenship, and more.
Credits: This lecture was delivered in 2009 at the Metropolitan State College of Denver School of Business, as part of the Exploring Economic Freedom Lecture Series, directed by Prof. Alexandre Padilla. This video was produced and directed by Scott Houck, and edited by Adrienne Christy. Video production provided by the Educational Technology Center at Metropolitan State College of Denver. Video used by LearnLiberty.org with permission.
Watch more videos: lrnlbty.co/y5tTcY

[@kornfedboy]

Some very good points made in the comments. What economists seem to forget when discussing immigration whether it’s legal or illegal is “culture”. GDP and economic growth is not the only metric by which we should measure the amount of immigrants we do or don’t have in the USA.

[@danporter1176]

there are bounds of literature on exactly this

[@saenzperspectives]

Economists don’t forget this, most people just don’t spend time actually reading what economists say about these issues.

[@saenzperspectives]

“Consider the following thought experiment: Moved by the plight of desperate earthquake victims, you volunteer to work as a relief worker in Haiti. After two weeks, you’re ready to go home. Unfortunately, when you arrive at the airport, customs officials tell you that you’re forbidden to enter the United States. You go to the American consulate to demand an explanation. But the official response is simply, “The United States does not have to explain itself to you.” You don’t have to be a libertarian to admit that this seems like a monstrous injustice. The entire ideological menagerie-liberals, conservatives, moderates, socialists, and libertarians-would defend your right to move from Haiti to the United States. What’s so bad about restricting your migration? Most obviously, because life in Haiti is terrible. If the American government denies you permission to return, you’ll live in dire poverty, die sooner, live under a brutal, corrupt regime, and be cut off from most of the people you want to associate with. Hunger, danger, oppression, isolation: condemning you to even one seems wrong. Which raises a serious question: if you had been born in Haiti, would denying you permission to enter the United States be any less wrong?1 This thought experiment hardly proves that people have an absolute right of free migration. After all, many things that seem wrong on the surface turn out to be morally justified. Suppose you knock me unconscious, then slice me open with a knife. This is normally wrong. But if you’re performing surgery required to save my life, and I gave my informed consent, then your action is not just morally permissible, but praiseworthy. Nevertheless, my thought experiment does establish one weak conclusion: immigration restrictions seem wrong on the surface. To justifiably restrict migration, you need to overcome the moral presumption in favor of open borders (Huemer 2010). How would one go about overcoming this presumption? For starters, you must show that the evils of free immigration are fairly severe. Immigration restrictions trap many millions in Third World misery. Economists’ consensus estimate is that open borders would roughly double world GDP, enough to virtually eliminate global poverty (Clemens 2011). The injustice and harm that immigration restrictions prevent has to be at least comparable to the injustice and harm that immigration restrictions impose. But hard evidence that immigration has major drawbacks is not enough. The proponent of immigration restrictions also has to show that there is no cheaper or more humane way to mitigate the evils of immigration. Surgery wouldn’t be morally justified if a $1 pill were an equally effective treatment. Why not? Because even if surgery will save the patient’s life, there is a cheaper, more humane way to do so.... ....it seems wrong to prohibit voluntary exchange between natives and foreigners. Proponents of immigration restrictions have to show why, moral appearances notwithstanding, immigration restrictions are morally justified. They fail to do so. Immigration restrictions are not necessary to protect American workers. Most Americans benefit from immigration, and the losers don’t lose much. Immigration restrictions are not necessary to protect American taxpayers...Immigration restrictions are not necessary to protect American culture. Immigrants make our culture better-and their children learn fluent English. Immigration restrictions are not necessary to protect American liberty. Immigrants have low voter turnout and accept our political status quo by default. By increasing diversity, they undermine native support for the welfare state. And on one important issue-immigration itself-immigrants are much more pro-liberty than natives. Even if all these empirical claims are wrong, though, immigration restrictions would remain morally impermissible. Why? Because there are cheaper and more humane solutions for each and every complaint. If immigrants hurt American workers, we can charge immigrants higher taxes or admission fees, and use the revenue to compensate the losers. If immigrants burden American taxpayers, we can make immigrants ineligible for benefits. If immigrants hurt American culture, we can impose tests of English fluency and cultural literacy. If immigrants hurt American liberty, we can refuse to give them the right to vote. Whatever your complaint happens to be, immigration restrictions are a needlessly draconian remedy."-Bryan Caplan, Why Restrict Immigration?

[@lloydgush]

The law of supply and demand remains strong. But if with supply comes demand, it should change nothing according to it. Immigrants bring labor supply but they also bring labor demands.

[@jessejuell9833]

There is still a need to vet quality immigrants to optimize the supply and demand of labour.

[@markthompson4567]

that not true Immigrants bring labor that raises GDP but unless they're higher skilled then they bring down GDP per capita

[@tkinnyc]

i worked w several illegal immigrants while living in NYC- by and large, they were good people, hardworking, and law abiding (breaking the law = threat of deportation), while they didn't pay income tax, they of course pay sales tax (8.25%). They were hired by employers because A) the employer actually SAVED money (no payroll tax/sub minimum wage) and could treat them however they want (no breaks/overtime/rights). Want to control illegal immig? Start w the people who profit from it- employers.

[@KeeganIdler]

The best one I've seen in a long time. Its so obvious when he explains it.

[@jetrpg22]

No the point of boarders are to divide areas based on culture or shared rule system... ie everyone her AGREES TO DO (WHATEVER THEY DECIDED ON/laws). As time moves on the cultures between those areas change. also like culture often group together to forum larger ruling areas.

[@keepitminty1990]

What about the assertion that the vast majority of the new immigrants will vote for bigger government and greater entitlements? I think this is the central point that divides many conservatives and libertarians.

[@heavenlyturnip]

Bismark is one of the most successful conservative leaders in History - and he also was the founder of the German Welfare State. Welfare used to be a conservative idea

[@connor9423]

I think it depends on the person, where they came from, and what their experience was. Many people from places like Cuba, the former USSR, and other soviet-type economies can easily see, call out, and vote against socialist programs. The strongest voice leading the charge against affirmative action at universities was students of Chinese, and other Asian cultures.

[@thelizardking3036]

Connor As I understand it, afirmative action disadvantages asians. So no surprise that they are opposed, regardless of politics back home. But do Hispanics feel the same.

[@nadrud]

Normally when you make a video and a speech it is based off on ground doing research. I am interested where you gathered your material for this lecture.

[@m1kkel2]

Ben Powell Video was amazing! Enjoyed your thought and opinions. With warm regards, Michael

[@youdontgettoknow139]

The reason why I am suspicious of recent or illegal immigrants voting is that they may not realize the relation between their homes' culture and government and the fact that their homes were great places to leave.

[@Rorgosh]

You Don't Get to Know Look it from an another persppective. All the immigrants left their home, mostly by their own decision. This indicates, they see, their left home is not a great place to live, and they fed of by goverment requires permission for everything. Thats why immigrants usually support pro small goverment parties. They might be poor and undereducated, but not stupid. The stupid ones usually stay home...

[@ggrthemostgodless8713]

Not really... everywhere is a "great place to leave" if you are homeless or unemployed or have cicil unrest... the reason poor americans don't leave is Where wold they go??

[@indirectlc5545]

@@fudgefactor1639 democrats will not let that happen that is an important voter block. If we could stop them from voting I would be fine with immigrates but I don't want someone that is poor have a say in our welfare system or change our culture.

[@akaku9]

Let's do a little thought experiment. Out of all of the places people are leaving; how many have been meddled with by us foreign policy?

[@akaku9]

@@indirectlc5545 your culture? America's culture is an amalgamation of all cultures. The founding fathers could be a source of limitless energy if we just hook up some cables to their corpses; which are spinning wildly in their graves.

[@JurijFedorov]

Really good talk. I just skipped the question round because yet again the questions are hard to hear and the people asking about stuff can't seem to string a sentence together in these videos. Sometimes they go on for minutes just expanding their question.

[@25Soupy]

There is many great points and agreements in this presentation, there is not easy answers, I'm assuming Prof. Ben Powell doesn't live in the same postal code as Prof. Victor Davis Hanson. I'm also assuming his children go to private school.

[@Junokaii]

The 'net gain' in jobs is good for the government, but not good for voters/taxpayers. It's great for the government because they get more revenue, but the populous who was there prior has to deal with increased difficulty in getting jobs and a loss of overall culture.

[@ravindertalwar553]

Wonderful presentation and Amazing Setup

[@johncquiroz]

I agree with you and I thank you. I wish the media would give you an opportunity to be heard.

[@Dldmny]

The problem with lectures of this type is the fact that the presenter is confident that he/she is insulated from any negative consequences of the ideas being promoted. In that regard, they are much like politicians. There are currently many US cities that are becoming over-populated and can barely provide for the current basic needs of citizens, because of limited natural resources such as water.

[@rogerking3576]

What you say makes sense but I have several questions. 1) I find it hard to believe that allowing the very poor into our country and then giving them and the benefits that the poor receive is actually good for our country and economy. Do you have a video specifically addressing this? 2) Is what you are saying here is letting our immigration policies let those folks into our country that have needed skills is good or that letting everyone in no matter their skill base is good?

[@Joseph565112]

I like some of the immigration points. Make it easier to come and go with some form of tracking, ID. Dont allow them the right to vote or hand out welfare. Amend the 14th amendment so that at least one of your parents has to be a citizen and you have to be born on US soil to automatically be a citizen.

[@PavelSkollSuk]

In Germany only 1/4th of new immigrants work or at least willing to work. In CZ we don't have immigrants from Africa, but many from Russia and Vietnam. They work and nobody has anything against them. We just don't want those from Africa.

[@hqlife5128]

I think the problem here is that the welfare programs in Germany are too generous and this creates this social welfare migration. In Poland we have some immigrants, mostly from Ukraine and other former USSR countries but since our welfare is nowhere as generous as the one in Germany, we mostly have hardworking immigrants.

[@009o9]

Population (16 through 64), increased by 22 million in the first decade of the 21st century; employment growth for the decade was only 1 million jobs in the working age population. Total employment growth for the decade was only 3.2 million, two thirds of total employment growth went to persons 65 yrs. and older. Even prior to the mortgage meltdown, employment growth was the worst in BLS data in relation to population growth.

[@lamarethington]

41:50 local sales taxes don't tend to work because it is too easy to avoid them unless you tax food which is politically unpopular if not impossible.

[@syhcoach]

I take issue with his glib statement that immigrants do not depress wages or displace workers, except at the low skilled labor pool. I am a highly educated US high tech worker, and I can attest that immigration and outsourcing have significantly reduced both salaries and employment opportunities in my profession.

[@chriswatson1698]

Australia has had huge immigration in the last 10 years. They have crowded out roads and schools, the cost of which, they haven't shared and neither have their parents and grandparents. The create a need for infrastructure that everyone has to pay for, not just the newcomers that make it necessary. The construction companies rub their hands with glee at the prospect of all that profit they make at the expense of all taxpayers, not just the newcomers. Australia's experience is that the increase in jobs does not keep up with the population increase. And it is the newcomers that get the new jobs. And what are the jobs? Selling stuff that is imported, damaging the current account deficit.

[@stealthswimmer]

@SolomansEye Please open an economics textbook. They don't "take away" American jobs. They often take jobs US citizens won't do at those wages. The law of comparative advantage applies to labor as well.

[@djelloulmakhloufi3712]

The problem is , here in us you finish college with a lot of debt ,immigrants got it for free How you can compete ?

[@Hodggoblin]

on the lettuce example. if they cant afford to get the lettuce out of the ground at its current price, doesnt that mean the supply of lettuce is higher than than the demand and that is why the price is to low too justify harvesting the crop? If so, wouldnt this mean the the jobs didnt need to exist in the first place, the farmers just needed to grow different crops?

[@vertigo0331]

+Hodggoblin It artificially decreases supply relative to demand. The issue isn't that too few people want lettuce, but that people who would otherwise want lettuce can't get it or won't want it at that price. By making it more expensive to harvest, it makes less lettuce available to the consumer. Laws of supply and demand dictate that the price of lettuce will go up, which means fewer people will purchase lettuce when they would have bought it or even have an opportunity to buy it otherwise. The end result of all of this is that the price of lettuce artificially rises, fewer people who want lettuce can or will get it, the farmers have wasted crop space, and the people who wanted to work cannot. I think the fundamental misunderstanding of your question is that there is no decrease in demand for lettuce. The consumers want lettuce, the farmer wants to be in the lettuce business, and there are workers willing to harvest the lettuce. By artificially raising the cost of production, you aren't decreasing demand for lettuce, you are just making it harder to access. You asked if it means the jobs didn't need to exist in the first place, but those jobs were clearly needed by someone, or there wouldn't have been people taking them. I mean, if we artificially raised the price of all vehicles to at least $50,000 a lot fewer people would buy cars. That doesn't mean there is no need for used cars, it just means the price of vehicles has been artificially raised so that it is no longer profitable to buy used cars. It doesn't mean people wouldn't be able to benefit from selling their used car to someone for $5,000, it just means the price has been artificially increased to a point that it becomes impractical and does not benefit either party. The demand is still there, but legal guidelines have destroyed its viability. Does the car analogy make sense? I'm trying to figure out how to best illustrate my point, but I'm not sure that analogy is going to do it...

[@Andykruse63]

No - what happens is the lettuce will be imported from Mexico or another central American country that we have no control over what they use on the crops. Capitalism is in part supplying a product people want at the lowest possible cost.

[@chriswatson1698]

Since Brexit was announced, immigration from Europe into the UK has slowed (not stopped). And the wages of the UK workers have begun to rise. Australia's huge immigrant intake has made wages stagnant, GDP per capita has shrunk and housing has become massively expensive, making the poor, poorer. Even the Reserve Bank, admits that immigration has made rents 9% higher than they would have been without population increase.

[@ryta1203]

@MrBaldurthegood The real problem is that somewhere along the lines the "illegal immigration" debate got turned into the "immigration" debate. These are two different topics entirely and sadly the lines have been very blurred.

[@sectionsixty4020]

This channel is fantastic

[@LearnLiberty]

Thanks! Be sure to check out our new videos too!

[@samanthamccarthy325]

agree - feel like I've found a place to come and get informed and unbiased information that helps me to engage in genuine discourse with people, rather than being forced to play some kind of persuasion game.

[@chriswatson1698]

For the last decade and a half Australia has been taking huge numbers of legal migrants. Our population increase is the highest by far for OECD countries and most population increase is immigrants. The result: more homelessness especially among the elderly. House prices have skyrocketed so that a house costs many more times the average yearly wage than it was 40 years ago. Wages are stagnant, but businesses are more profitable. The cost of living for the Australian-born has increased. Migrants cost, and they consume a lot more than just social services. Migrants don't increase the prices that our exports receive on world markets, but the revenue that our governments get for our exports, has to be spread over more people, diluting our wealth.

[@llddau]

It wasn't specified who this man is talking about while praising contributions to the economy - legal immigrants, refugees, illegal crossers from Mexico for example, those pretending to be refugees who are in fact economic migrants (or much worse), therefore illegal, overstayers, also illegal, and there are differences. It is quite obvious that some of these people will contribute to the economy and some will drain it. Some come to participate in and appreciate our way of life, some come to change it or take advantage of it. Those getting legitimate jobs and paying taxes, those working illegally, for cash under the table, for less than those who live here already. Economy is also but one of the areas affected by immigration. In regards to refugees, real or not, who commit crime, in Australia these are extremely rarely deported due to apparent danger that we rescued them from in their own countries.

[@Missegyptlatesha]

I agree with all your points pertaining to legal immigration you're going to get a good mixture of both high-skilled and low-skilled workers when it comes to illegal immigration on the Mexican border I think it's safe to assume that you don't have people crossing the border with phds engineering backgrounds or anything else involving the stem fields... one of the things that I find very pervasive and America is the deliberate blurring of the lines between legal immigration and illegal immigration the distinction is very important

[@masluxx]

@classiclibertarian a legaly sanctioned class system. I am sorry if that was implied by the countries i listed and not explicity explained. Some times i assume others criticaly think when they read or listin, i guess i should nto do that ah?

[@israelb077]

@zavindur Actually some do pay taxes and they actually dont end up getting money back from doing their taxes.

[@gerberjoanne266]

I'm a little confused. I understand that immigrants will generate demand, but that demand won't necessarily create jobs that the construction or agricultural worker could do, or that would necessarily pay a living wage. As for the masses of women, immigrants, et al. entering the workforce, that was over a period of decades. Also, unemployment figures way under-count the number of the unemployed or underemployed. You're considered employed if you work an hour a week! And wages and salaries have famously stagnated since the early 1980s; this may have been caused by an over-supply of low-wage workers coming in.

[@LucisFerre1]

Between 1996-2003 the IRS collected about 50 billion dollars in taxes from people using "ITIN's". 26:00 Now that's counter-intuitive.

[@carlos52321]

@searchlight18 Wrong, profits in stores have obviously went down when they left.

[@chrisdryer]

Actually addressed the welfare issues... I was curious as to when the immigrates realize that they are working like slaves on the farms what to do? I guess let the market decide...

[@Emajenus]

This video should be at 43m views...not 43 thousand...

[@OfficialCptAJones]

@JJRage420 Watch the video, he actually addresses the issue(s) you are bringing up in your comment..

[@Hashishin13]

@rockymountainprep Again, did you even WATCH THE VIDEO at all? He explains everything you are talking about and addresses all of your concerns. So far my count is that you have posted at least 3 comments criticizing a video you HAVE YET TO WATCH.

[@magister343]

I was under the impression that NAFTA increases illegal immigration because it has largely ruined the Mexican agricultural industry. The problem is not free trade in or of itself, but the massive government subsidies paid to US agribusiness that gives it an unfair advantage against the local competition.

[@The3rdPlateau]

@The3rdPlateau from around 40:00

[@senkenkai]

Great points however his data and statistics are based on documented immigrants from all over the world. The major concern is undocumented/illegal immigrants that over stay their Visa and cross the border illegally. Which is hard to calculate their negative impact when we don't have any solid data. There is also cultural and political impacts that is effected.

[@coreyschiffer7880]

I am a subcontractor in Louisiana doing commercial flooring. In my fathers time this trade raised a 4 child family and put them all through catholic school with out there wives having to work. For the last ten years our jobs have been getting undercut more and more by Latino labor. Where we use to get an abundance of jobs making 35 cents a square foot we have slowly been swindled down to 25 cents a square foot and sometimes worst just to keep the shop busy enough to keep us fed. Now these days it requires me and my wife to work full time her with duel majors and a regional marketing director position and me a subcontractor just to make ends meet in a mediocre house with three kids. I know for a fact because I’ve talked to many of them that they will work for a fraction of the price we will not only in flooring but painting drywall and many other trades. When they can live 6 to 10 of them in a small apartment and put all of there money together because often they do this to make things work. I’ve seen it I’ve lived above it multiple times in apartments. How can you say that this is a fair when they are putting all of there money together and sending it back home where that money turns to gold basically. Floor men are more and more leaving the trade because of this and the fact that they will kill themselves at this point working 7 days a week barely making ends meet in some cases. How can you say that this is fair?

[@asillynertasillynert2204]

Yup but to them they have statistics you is "ancedotal" I am from family of "construction" workers 5 businesses dozens of contacts. And only two citizen contractor types exist first is people working for absolute dirt. Second is niche work that can't be underbid on. For me for years and years I did high end finish in mansions. But after decade of being in industry I know so much. BUT I looked around I was looking 30-60 minutes each way commuting to job sites. Thousands on tools vehicle wear and tear etc. Meanwhile warehouse work no commute inside with air conditioning paid same fuck after expenses still better to work at walmart. So why not choose ac no commute no tool expenses and work one of these jobs. Not only was I fast and good at job but I was able to charge like 30% above market. But one big factor they don't consider and why "farms wont even hire citizen" is expense of hiring someone is significantly more than wage. So if you pay illegal 10 dollars a hr there is literally no legal wage you could pay and not lose money. For exact same work. Seriously after payroll taxes and workers comp and osha compliance etc. For high risk high turnover jobs thats almost 50% of wage. Aka to pay legal status person 10 it cost 20 whereas a under table laborer cost company 10 just 10. Well ok maybe extra 2 bucks a week for gas to go to bank and grab cash. But it affects all industrys but contractor/gig industry extremely bad the most jacked up part is not only do you have to compete and struggle. While they get to actually keep more of own check etc. There is added burden as many will steal license/insurance number thus dealing with added fun of disputing things later um no that was not my company etc.

[@richdobbs6595]

If you leave 2/3 of the lettuce crop to rot because you don't have a work force to harvest it, then you choose poorly on what crop to plant, and how much of it. If you can't make money farming in a densely populated state with high housing cost, perhaps you would decide to sell out and the land would be reused for housing. Or maybe you need to invest in mechanization to allow you to produce lettuce with less labor.

[@heavenlyturnip]

Good points - but you forgot something, mechanizing the farm or selling it to real estate developers is still a net loss in jobs. Therfore immigrants aren't taking those jobs, the jobs wouldn't exist at all if not for them.

[@okieboy7065]

Yeah, this video is old and out dated. His points are non arguments and not really a point of contention for most in this debate

[@kickchef3319]

It is ok that a family usually needs two incomes when one used to be enough, because look everyone is working....... Embrace serfdom because, look at the GDP....... Ignore the chaotic ends met by "diverse" empires once the "endless" growth they are based on stops.......

[@masluxx]

@Barebast You might want to watch that part again. What he does is appeal (disingenuously) to self-centeredness and implies that it will not affect you. It will how ever effect wages threw basic supply and demand principles.

[@zavindur]

if they use any public services (roads, water, etc) they have been compensated for paid tax If someone sneaks into an amusement park and happens to spend money on food while there- they are doing so because they don't have another choice (kinda hard to steal the food). I don't believe the majority of them pay their fair share in taxes, they obviously cheated on their obligations. The cutting in line needs to stop and more pressure should be put on making it easier to come to the US legally.

[@stealthswimmer]

@ryta1203 Your viewpoint is flawed in that you're saying my viewpoint is flawed JUST because it comes from a textbook without regards to what the text actually says.

[@BarYesu83]

This guy said that foreign aid has actually had a negative impact on Sub-Saharan Africa, and that they should be left alone to fix their economic problems as everything else seems to fail. While I do not dispute that, I just want to point out the immense paradox! So the Sub-Saharan Africans should be left to fend for themselves, yet the Mexicans, Salvadorians, etc., should be able to come & go as they wish, earn money, not pay taxes, etc... And that's good foreign aid? Why not leave them be too?

[@darthutah6649]

Africa is geographically isolated from the US so not many Africans are trying to get to America

[@shadfurman]

If adding people to the economy took away jobs, taking people out of the economy would add jobs. Does that mean the most jobs would exist in an economy of one? There would definitely be a 100% employment rate, you'd work for yourself just trying to keep yourself alive. Yay you. Oooh... I hadn't thought of that. The type of people that immigrate are the type of people likely to actively pursue economic opportunities. People that pursue economic opportunities are the type of people that have the drive to start sustainable companies. I don't know the data but its a stereotypical story. Immigrant comes to America with the change in their pockets, and 10 years latter has a small empire.

[@Alpha_beef]

Keep in mind as well, another possible reason to pursue a life in the US is drug money

[@aternous]

I see lots of people making arguments based on conjecture and ignoring the economics of the situation. This topic easily triggers people for some reason.

[@shadfurman]

Sheldon Hall just as he stated in the beginning. Its amazing how few people understand economics. Or think they understand economics and pride themselves on complicated explanations they think prove their ideology. Economics is extremely simple. Supply and demand.

[@masluxx]

@Barebast Do you not get the simple concept of supply and demand? If you increase the market with more (illegal) labor wages will go down. It really is that simple. He promotes a change in policy which will promote more profits for the owners and reduce wages and standard of living for the workers. What part of my saying he promotes protection of the owners at the workers expense seems illogical to you?

[@kenpca]

I believe Thomas Sowell would disagree with certain points in this video.

[@dmo7815]

Illegal immigrant's will be taking labor jobs from from young and under educated citizen by driving the wages down. Exploiting Social Programs ment for our under privileged citizens. Working "under the table " and sending money to Honduras isn't helping our economy. For them ,no Tax's ,free medical ( go to any emergency room ) and living 20 in a house , no auto insurance and a $15. Miniman wage (waite,, that for US citizens). Nothing is free,,your children will be paying for this

[@SmartWentCrazy.]

This is one the weakest talks that I have ever heard. So many fallacies. And downplaying then ignoring the -8% in low skilled wages is pretty damn elitist in my opinion.

[@ChrisCheapBodybuilding]

Actually, I just finished reading Race and Culture by Thomas Sowell & Ben pretty much repeated a lot what Thomas Sowell said back in 1985.

[@austinblackburn8095]

@@SmartWentCrazy. Yes the low skilled workers who are so low skilled they didn't even finish highschool sorry if some people don't care for those who couldn't even do that 1 simple task. The government on average spends over 100,000$ to send you through public k-12 and if you can't even do that simple task that is paid for you then maybe you should be competing with the immigrants who didn't have that opportunity.

[@Xplora213]

Austin Blackburn you are being needlessly callous. Make a positive claim rather than a negative one - your approach ensures no one will listen to your other points. Because I don’t agree with your principles even if we make the same policy.

[@Spartan322]

I don't disagree with any of his points, in fact I totally agree ecnomically but to the same regard the contention is more over cultural and interference, it can be afforded to be more social when thinking in terms of a homogeneous culture, but with an already bad heterogeneity that we have, we'd need to solve our own problems internally before we ever assign value to any external system, including aid or migration.

[@paulsnyder4135]

I enjoyed this lecture, but the question and answer session would be much improved if the questions were put on-screen as text. This change would take very little effort, but would require having a transcript of the missing and unintelligible audio. Again though, the lecture was informative and interesting, thanks!

[@aumniinmua9729]

Thats not entirely accurate. I believe he was referring to the educational system when he mentioned children being a tax burden. This is true all the way up into their collegiate years. The principal premise remains the same, that being the addition of a new demand on a tax subsidized initiative.

[@igorvuk4454]

Germany has huge part of it's workforce populated by immigrant workers. and has been for the last few decades, form late 60's on. They have been a blessing on german economy and social system. Turks, people from Yugoslavia, Poland and other eastern coutntries went to work in Germany. It benefited Germany, immignrant workers and their home countries. Poland and Turkey are good example. millions of workers sending home money they earned in Germany put those countries in 5th gear. Poland was behind Croatia and Slovenia (considered best standing eq communist countries in Europe in 90s), now it's EU's economic powerhouse. Turkey has risen from dirtpoor to major player.

[@williamusher]

Turkey is a major player? Hahahahaha

[@ihl0700677525]

Igor Vuk When was Turkey "dirtpoor"? They were once mighty nation and even after WW1, which they lose, they were not exactly dirtpoor. Net income from exporting labor is just fraction of most country's GDP, some exception are the Philipines and North Korea, which export millions of their citizen to work abroad. This reasoning, that immigrants somehow make their original country rich, doesn't make any sense.

[@richdobbs6595]

Get back to me in 300 years to let me know how this worked out.

[@reasonablespeculation3893]

300 years? Check back in 50 years when Islam is in full stride. … and let me know what the status of Sub-Saharan people is, in the Euro-Caliphate. What about those (who couldn't get out) of the eviserated Indigenous European dhimma. History paints a clear picture.

[@phonkyDUKE1776]

I wish I could do gifs on KZbin. This guy deserves a standing ovation

[@stealthswimmer]

@roberthubbardjr Actually, expense on the government isn't the issue. Net economic benefits take that into account. There are other things that can offset that (like economic growth), and as for wages, the data shows that in the long run, the only people affected negatively are high school dropouts (wages 8% lower in short run, 5% lower in long run) and college graduates(4% lower in short run, .5% lower in the long run) so no, the wage reduction is not much of a cost at all

[@richdobbs6595]

With respect to restricting births vs immigrants: Effectively, and pragmatically, residents have an ownership right in the nation that includes that their children become citizens. All historical examples where nations attempted to create a permanent resident class deprived of citizenship rights typically either broke down in the short term, or resulted in a repressive strong government. So, by restricting residency to citizens, you restrict the growth in the population of citizens. So there is a reasonable argument on why we should have a say in whether you bring your cousin from over from Ireland on to your land, even though at least now we don't have a say on whether you or your cousin have kids when they are here. In a completely libertarian society with no assets shared in common, then that rational would disappear. But given a mixed economy, I think it is silly to say that there isn't a logical, rational order in which make improvements toward the ideal, and that taking steps in an order that might be politically achievable will not end up achieving the goal that you want, and might not be worse than not taking certain steps.

[@billstep6496]

I would enjoy this more if you spoke a little slower. Your message would get across much better.

[@GlobalistJuice]

I think we've been snookered into believing this speaker is working with, and presenting strictly facts, but after just a few minutes into it, it appears his presentation is fueled by emotion, with some facts swirled-in to make it creditable, without really presenting those facts with the harsh lighting they deserve.

[@Hashishin13]

I like this guy, but I think Bryan Caplan's lecture on immigration is way better, you should check it out.

[@dustinabc]

The freedoms to move, travel, migrate, etc. are unalienable rights.

[@Xplora213]

That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. You may not enter my property. You infringe on my property rights doing so. You may not enter and work in my country, you infringe on my right to a fair wage and my employment opportunities when you do so. The taxpayers and citizens establish boundaries for a reason. They respect your national boundaries and you respect ours. We won’t infringe upon you and you reciprocate. Or we can fight to the death instead. Your choice. We are ready.

[@loselmatos4453]

@@Xplora213 There is no such thing as a right to a fair wage lol

[@killaryhlinton8853]

@@Xplora213 Where do you derive the "we" from? Social contract? "You may not enter my property. You infringe on my property rights doing so." "You may not enter and work in my country, you infringe on my right to a fair wage and my employment opportunities when you do so." What gives you the right to "own" your country. You only own the right to your OWN property. If others want immigrants they're free to sell, loan or gift their land to any person they wish - even an immigrant. Nothing gives you the right to dictate what happens with "your" country because you don't have a claim to its ownership and the extorted money doesn't give you it. "The taxpayers and citizens establish boundaries for a reason." Stupid argument since it can be applied literally everywhere whilst also proving nothing and just like you said: "That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." You've made several assertions and haven't provided evidence". What gives you the "right" to exclude others from the land you don't own i.e. the rest of the country? You literally don't own the US, rather a small chunk called your home, therefore you decide who enters and dwells on your property, but the rest of the US isn't for you to decide.

[@thebrsrkr6428]

@@killaryhlinton8853 That's literally not how countries work. Every citizen of the country owns the country. Of the entire country, you have direct private control of your house, that doesn't mean the pu lic isn't yours.

[@chriswatson1698]

If increasing the population, made a country wealthier, then Bangladesh and Nigeria would be wealthy countries.

[@caversmill]

This is a really good video. Why conservatives have been traditionally the anti-immigration party i'll never know.

[@dektran4843]

BOTH SIDES OF THE ESTABLISHMENT BENEFIT FROM ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION THE LEFT GAINS MORE VOTERS AND THE RIGHT GAINS CHEAP NON UNIONIZED LABOR

[@kohakugawazy]

Well just because you need a low-cost gardener and wouldn't want to pay a bit more, doesn't mean that the rest of the country should suffer from it... that is just selfish. It sounds very condescending to simply dismiss the small portion of high school dropouts, how small the portion might be, they are fellow Americans too. The logic is that it's okay to hurt this small portion of high school dropouts, and I am not sure for what reason do you think that way.

[@mtanousable]

@Kingofprinces85 Because of the minimum wage, the Federal Reserve, and the government pushing home ownership for people who could not afford it. The housing bubble is the major cause of unemployment, and that has absolutely nothing to do with immigrants of any kind.

[@Barebast]

@masluxx I don't think that trying to determine whether he has an agenda or not is really relevant. What is relevant however, is examining the strength of his arguments. He said that, yes, the basic tenets of supply and demand would dictate that wages should decrease with more people, but he pointed out that not all labour is is equal and hence the simple supply and demand argument becomes moot. Would you expect the wages of an American engineer to decline because of a low-skilled Mexican maid?

[@KellyK415]

Maybe you're right but there are many companies making profits in other countries and they don't hire bilinguals.

[@chriswatson1698]

The area of land within the cities is fixed, so every extra person pushes up the value of every square yard of land. So those who own land get richer. Economists count this as a positive. But the younger and poorer members of the community must pay more and more for less and less space. When you increase the population of a city, housing all the people means building up or building out. That is a drop in living standard. In my city, all taxpayers are going to have to pay for a third desalination plant for the benefit of foreigners. That adds to the GDP figures that the government can brag about.

[@carlos52321]

@gr8ful2god4life What about US Latino citizen soldiers?

[@GIboy1990]

Poor "unskilled" Immigration directly impacts wage potential for naturalized labor workers. Construction, masonry, landscaping, carpentry. these lines of work are by no means ''unskilled' I've worked in all of them under my brother in his general contracting business. He was out-bid on many occasions by someone employing immigrant workers under the table. This is illegal at-least in the state my brother operated in, but it still required him to either lose contracts entirely or underbid the value of the workmanship that he and his business offered. Its hard enough for small businesses to start up in areas with a high number of illegal immigrants without the number of costly rules, licenses and regulations governing the job market.

[@Hashishin13]

@DeltaNordicAdvance Did you miss the part about the seen an the unseen or did you just not watch it at all? You see the one guy who was working in an inefficient job lose it to people who would work for a lower wage, you don't see all the marginal benefits to the economy that make it wealthier, such as the food, shelter and other goods that immigrant buys. The more apples are sold the cheaper apples get, for YOU as well as the immigrant. What right do you have to tell an employer who to hire?

[@trueconservatie33]

@SoberHedgehog well when they get sick they come to our hospitals, not to mention our public school

[@dicktracy3787]

It is painful when economists do not understand the Malthusian Trap. In a static economy, more people mean a lower standard of living. - This is straightforward from evolution. However if you have a growing economy on a per capita basis and the country protects inventors' property rights then every person is a potential source of increased wealth for everyone.

[@richdobbs6595]

Additional people do not increase the size of wilderness. They do not increase the amount of rainfall. Additional people at any point in time might be a gain, or a net lose. Immigration should be auctioned, rather than given away. But given that some folks will benefit and other lose, how do you decide how many new members?

[@darthutah6649]

@@richdobbs6595 If there are more people in the US, it means that there are less people elsewhere. Wealth that would have gone to Mexico may instead go to the US.

[@richdobbs6595]

@@darthutah6649 - No, it just means that more folks will be born elsewhere, given that immigration is from populations with high fertility rates. Why should I care if more wealth goes to the US rather than Mexico if that wealth does not aid me, and the additional people are a clear negative to me and my children?

[@jch8044]

So in his example of how immigration dosent effect wages, does he literally says I paid a guy a lower wage to dig out my yard than what I would have if the guy was an American worker and beings I didn't have to pay as much everyone was richer for it, except the American worker that didn't get the job because the immigrant was willing to do it for less? All after saying immigrants do not take American jobs even though that's exactly what happened and for the American to compete he would have to lower his price on any job associated with his work.

[@christianvanderniet]

i think the main issue in Europe will be there's not enough space to house so many people, theres simply not enoutgh space for the giant influx of people. Europe i tiny. maybe in the USA there's still space. but clearly here its not the case

[@KellyK415]

P.S. It's not a myth that jobs are taken from well-qualified individuals just because they are not bilingual. This should be considered discrimination as the primary language spoken in our country is English and Americans should not be required to cater to Spanish speaking people. Noone should not be hired for a job just because there was another candidate equally (or less) qualified but could speak Spanish.

[@ryta1203]

@stealthswimmer The fact that you are using a "textbook" flaws your entire viewpoint. Textbooks, particularly in this country, are written with slant and often, way too often, don't hit contentious topics, contentious being reality, not theory.

[@pdhudsonUSMC]

Person A loses a job to Person B, Person Bthen creates a need for more goods and services so person A gets rehired? If this were true and given the birth rate outpacing the deathrate in this country, how can unemloyment ever rise?

[@benkermen8360]

This would have been more interesting if Mr. Powell had specified whether the immigrants are legal or illegal. What impacts to our country resulting from drug trafficking when we don't check who is coming in to our country. What impact do uneducated illegal immigrants have on our social services. If we have an artificial job entry / minimum wage, is it ethical to pay less by those who will exploit those workers.

[@DaveWard-xc7vd]

Immigrants do push wages down, because 70% of Americans do not have a degree and about 25% of high school freshmen fail to graduate from high school on time. Americans are therefore competing against immigrants for low wage jobs. Almost 2,000 high schools across the U.S. graduate less than 60% of their students. These “dropout factories” account for over 50% of the students who leave school every year. 1 in 6 students attend a dropout factory. 1 in 3 minority students (32%) attend a dropout factory, compared to 8% of white students.

[@saltysnacky]

/watch?v=GYk00Ufiqb4 Bryan Caplan addresses that one here.

[@FootnotesToPlato]

Wait that’s the free science lessons intro

[@ryta1203]

@blameitonyourselfOWS Ah, I see. Then, yes, we totally agree on this point.

[@DIY_Miracle]

As Thomas Sowell would respond to these comments, "Show me the model."

[@austinblackburn8095]

Allot of the things he said Thomas Sowell has said. He didn't say illegal imigrants where a positive he said imigrants are and we would benefit in some ways be making it easier to do legally not necessarily citizenship.

[@TKUA11]

We already bring in a million people a year, more than any other country in the world. How much more people do you want to bring in? 5 million? 10 , 50?

[@yousefyacoub5204]

Great, I think your channel should put some translations into other languages because the whole world has to learn, not just Americans or English speakers, Thank you.

[@chriswatson1698]

To think that perpetual growth in population is sustainable or a benefit, you would have to be either a madman or an economist.

[@connor9423]

"the only limited resource is the human brain"

[@NicholasWongCQ]

Sure, it may not be a net drag on the economy, but that may have something to do with the fact that you DO NOT HAVE AN OPEN BORDER POLICY? Have you ever considered that?

[@robertljohnson8965]

Ken Paul, I think you are right. Thomas So well is VERY wise.

[@ryta1203]

@blameitonyourselfOWS There is a distinction. One is legal and the other is not.

[@masluxx]

In a nut shell he is advocating protectionist polices for companies that are noncompetative and removing the protections for the countries legal citizens. Obviuosly his loyalties are not to the people that make up this fine country but to the ccmpanies that might hire him to mouth things for them. This guy sure is a really smart weasle.

[@LordByron610]

How do you economically sit there with a straight face and say increasing the labor supply doesn't decrease demand (wages)? Seriously tell me how that's possible.

[@Andykruse63]

It's easy - look at the Department of labor numbers. Can you find any studies, not from a right wing crazy organization that has shown there is an impact?

[@darthutah6649]

Dubai is a very prosperous city, yet 80% of the population is from outside the country (Indians and Pakistanis alone outnumber UAE nationals).

[@robfromvan]

cryptokook because the supply curve and demand curve both shift. The new immigrants are an increase in the supply of labour bringing down the price of labour, but they also increase aggregate demand for labour because they become consumers in their economy, which increases the demand for labour, shifting the demand curve to the right, bringing the price of labour back up again, he explains this in the video. So the net effect is an offset but it could be an increase in wages or a decrease demanding on how much the curved shift. If they do depress wages this actually increases our standard of living because this also makes the cost of the goods these labourers are producing go down, the same as what happens when we outsource to countries where wages are lower. The goods are then sold cheaper so they become easier for the average person to afford them. So the standard of living goes up in that case

[@Niconogood]

Great and good for the US, but the problem in Europe is that immigrants simply dont contribute at all. Among ie. somalis here less than 30% work, the rest live on welfare. In countries like Sweden and France this costs the taxpayer around 20% of the national budget annually.

[@Barebast]

@masluxx It's obvious that you haven't watched the video. He addresses your argument and explains that for all the theorising, immigration (illegal and legal) has had a minimal effect on wages and where it does, it has only affected those without high school diplomas. Before you reply, at least listen to what he has to say: 5:49

[@geraldm4728]

There is a big difference between skilled and unskilled workers. There is a big difference between legal and illegal immigrants.