Edelgard Will Always Lose (Fire Emblem Three Houses)

[@ajakks6551]

Can we all just take the time to acknowledge the fact that the Edelgard morality arguments spawn whole college-grade essays on whether she's in the right or not.

[@jmaster4941]

Just shows you how much effort went into the writing XD

[@stickfigure8416]

Too bad so many people will bend over backwards to simplify it down to a black and white conflict with reductionist arguments because they cannot stand their own morality to be challenged.

[@jmaster4941]

@@stickfigure8416 It's a shame because through-provoking conversation is one of my favorite meta aspects to this game. Something that no other game can match imo

[@firecraft7032]

Both sides just can't properly accept each other. As much of a fresh air Edelgard debates are compared to flame wars on the fanbase, they can devolve into toxicity and force both sides to become more blind to the other.

[@LunarEntity]

@@jmaster4941 The second part of your statement is false.

[@Obi-Wan_Kenobi]

So what you're saying is, she became the very thing she swore to destroy. It's a story I've witnessed before.

[@Mojo1356]

I’d say that’s the case for 3 out of 4 possible outcomes. Either way, for as much as I love her, I cannot say she is a hero in her own route- only an antihero.

[@azizabdul8914]

Byleth would eventually confront her in the higher ground. Then she got defeated and turned into a Darth Edelgard by the remnants of Darth Thales.

[@mrcheese8597]

Yeah, I remember anakin

[@justinianthe1st790]

Something something episode 3 reference

[@justsomeguywithaquestionab3175]

Only an emperor deals in absolutes.

[@SeismicHammer]

I find it interesting that the Blue Lions had more students that have issues with the Crest system than the Black Eagles. Sylvain, Mercedes and Ingrid all had reasons to be less than enthused about how their society treated people with crests. Sylvain and Ingrid both are also relatively influential, Sylvain particularly. If Edelgard was more willing to look at other people's suffering, she would have found some relatively easy ways to forward her reforms. Dimitri would probably be alright with many of Edelgard's reforms as well, given that he is quite focused on justice. Even Rhea and Seteth would likely support reforms against abuses of the crests, given that crests are their family's hearts, and crestbearers are sort of like adopted family. However, Edelgard has no supports with Sylvain, who, asides from Hanneman (and maybe Lysithea), would have the most desire to change the crest system. She also never bothers trying to speak with Seteth or Rhea, and as seen in his supports, Seteth is one of the most reasonable characters in the game, so would likely be sympathetic in some ways. Rhea would be a lot more volatile, but would not necessarily be against reform. This suggests that Edelgard was tunnel visioning on her own desires, as opposed to that of others, given that she relates with Lysithea, who suffered similar horrors, which were actually not explicitly due to the crest system, given that the perpetrators do not believe in it. It is also worth noting that abuses of the crest system seems to be the worst in Adrestia, where the Church of Seiros has the LEAST influence. While Sylvain's and Ingrid's situations are not particularly good, it is not as bad as what happened to Hanneman's sister, Mercedes and her Brother. There doesn't seem to be much abuse of the crest system in the Alliance, though I feel that may be partly due to Leicester being relatively less developed within the story (Lysithea was experimented by "Imperial" mages). The Eastern Church in Leicester is also the one that the Central Church has the most control over, while the Western Church is more rebellious, and the Southern Church is under the control of the Empire. Looking at this, the conclusion that Rhea was the one imposing the crest system's injustices seems a bit dubious, since the areas she has the most control over in this regard have the least abuse, and the area she has the least control over has the worst. Edelgard's claim that the church splintered the Empire also appears to be Imperial revisionism, given that the Leicester rebellion had, as far as can be told, nothing to do with the church. It is possible that the Faerghus rebellion had to do with crests (most Imperials crests are Saints', while Faerghus has most of the 10 elites, so it may have been partly due to arguments over which crests had preeminence), but that isn't explicitly stated. Overall, it seems that while what Edelgard claims to wish to change is indeed in need of reform, her motivations for doing so have more to do with satisfying her own desires and vision than fixing the problem. She does not seem to consider what other people feel about and is seemingly blind to so many potential allies, instead allying with the people that killed her siblings. There also appears to be no consideration about the mechanics of replacing the crest system, as while Lindhart and Hanneman are researching potential ways to reduce the emphasis on crests, she didn't look into such methods before planning war. It seems like what she really desires is for her siblings suffering and deaths to have a meaning, so she decides to go along with the plan of her torturers, as her success would then mean her siblings died for a reason. The rhetoric about making a meritocratic system without crests seems more like a way to convince herself and others that her way is right, as technically, having a crest does improve one's merit, and taking them away without abolishing nobility would just strip the nobility of tangible signs of superiority in merit. Sure, she talks about cleaning out the corruption among the nobles, but that wasn't a result of the crests, and would easily return without some method to keep it in check.

[@mareczek00713]

The problem is different - for Black Eagles crests are a part of a largel scale, showing rotten society. Edelgard hated separation into commoners and nobility, thus creating a new society, Hubert is fundamentally loyal and lawful individual and while situation forces him to lie and scheme he'd prefer for that to stop which we see by him literally assassinating his own father that did everything Hubert hated, Ferdinand views nobility not as status but as a duty (compared to Lorenz who sees nobility as both) and is frustrated with worldview of other nobles, himself being quite pragmatic and not above activities of a servant like cleaning armor, Bernadetta, due to her trauma, seeing the world as even worse place, while even our lazy boi Linhardt often tells how pride is an useless thing keeping you from doing your job and is all to happy to abandon his noble status for his research that could make the world a better place. And even characters that got hit not by world corruption as much as circumstsnces try to improve it - Petra becomes devoted for Brigid to form peaceful ties with Foldlan (no matter the route) despite having reasons to hate Foldlan (well, she's a political hostage) while Caspar decided to build his way through life despite how he got bad cards, breaking fights and stopping wrongs along his way (though gotta admit, for all stories of Count Bergliez being a scary berserker towering over the battlefield he was a good man, as he prepares opportunities for Caspar to become a respected military commander instead of abandoning a crestless son like Sylvain's dad abandoned Miklan, not to mention that Caspar recruited outside Crimson Flower mentions once he sacrificed himself and his personsl guard covering retreat of imperial commoner militiamen).

[@mareczek00713]

TL;DR - Black Eagles have problem with bad parts of society as a whole and crests are just a part of that.

[@SeismicHammer]

@mareczek00713 That’s true, but the point is that asides from Edelgard, none of the Black Eagles have a very strong reason to go against the Church, especially since most of their problems are due to Imperial society. Perhaps the Church was simply used as a scapegoat to unify the Empire, but that would suggest Edelgard is lying about her motives, which would not be that surprising, but does undermine her point. None of these issues required a war to solve, especially not against people that had little to do with issues in question.

[@sirensong1794]

It’s also worth noting that Edelgard and Petra don’t go up to an A support, and I can’t help but wonder if this was to avoid a conversation about petra’s status as a hostage, as even though she’s the emperor and Petra is loyal, she hasn’t given Brigid its independence

[@SeismicHammer]

@Yodeling Ram The Black Eagles’ loyalties are weird, as they depend solely on Byleth’s choice, with them all ditching Edelgard if Byleth does not support them, asides from Hubert. It also feels like many of the recruited students in CF are really quick to switch to her way of thinking, while in SS they are reasonably confused, given that Edelgard’s explanation isn’t particularly comprehensive.

[@lunaproc4913]

Therapy with Seteth would’ve solved everything.

[@manga925]

Yeah that’s why she steps down in the other routes because there conversation with Seteth in white clouds chapter 12.

[@SeismicHammer]

Or Mercedes, or both. Actually, why doesn't Mercedes have supports with Seteth?

[@joegreen3802]

LunaProc true but Edelgard needs to follow her own advice. In Black Eagles, she tells Byleth to not simply judge someone as an ally or enemy. Funny that she mostly does that

[@BrendenTait8858]

I still firmly believe that Seteth's ending should have had him opening a therapist office he is amazing at it

[@SeismicHammer]

@Brenden Tait I mean, in his paired ending with Byleth that can kind of happen

[@lunaproc4913]

Also, in any of Sylvain’s endings, he’s able to do what Edelgard couldn’t through peaceful methods as he (and his optional spouse) convince the world that crests are not essential for everything.

[@SeismicHammer]

I believe that this ending was on a more local case, but given that Faerghus was the nation that viewed crests as the most essential (while Adrestia views them as nice tools and Leicester doesn't appear to have a clear opinion on them), it was probably a lot of work. Hanneman and Lindhardt also research ways to remove or emulate crests, which would have done something similar too. Personally, it looks to me that Edelgard wanted to tear down the entire system, not crests specifically, though they are a part of it.

[@naproupi]

Which would have been impossible if Edelgard didn't start a war against the Church and thus reducing their control over peoples states of mind and preventing them from killing or removing from positions of power peoples who disaprove the crest system.

[@SeismicHammer]

@@naproupi Given that Sylvain's ending can occur in all routes, and the Church actually gains more influence in AM and especially SS. That doe not appear to be necessarily true. It is also worth pointing out that the worst crest abuses occurred in the Empire, where the Central Church actually had the LEAST influence.

[@bruhbruh4329]

@@SeismicHammer Sylvain's endings occur in all routes (provided he lives) but Edelgard starting the war calling the whole system into question also occurs on every route.

[@SeismicHammer]

@@bruhbruh4329 And in two of the endings the Church wins, so Edelgard loses that argument in those endings.

[@espio329]

*Laughs in Golden Deer*

[@v.emiltheii-nd.8094]

#eagleisregal

[@alondra6013]

@@v.emiltheii-nd.8094 #fearthedear

[@v.emiltheii-nd.8094]

@@alondra6013 #dying4lion

[@Juan94766]

Fuck Racism.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

@@v.emiltheii-nd.8094 #swaertothedeer

[@brightlight8852]

Actually there was recently an interview from the creators of Nintendo Dream that was fully translated in it they pointed out that Rhea changed the history of Fodlan not because she wanted to or because she couldn't move on, but because she was forced to. Lying was the only way to end the war.

[@SeismicHammer]

It is quite telling that that the 10 Elites and Nemesis were given a positive beginning, rather than one of damnation

[@brightlight8852]

@@SeismicHammer Rhea had no choice because by then Nemesis for over 100 years had pretending to be a hero so the people believed him, even the 10 Elites didn't know the truth, and by the time they found out there was nothing they could do. So Rhea had to lie both to give an origin to the crests and also to end a war that had been going on for over 100 years. Telling the truth would have made Nemesis a martyr in the eyes of his most avid followers.

[@SeismicHammer]

@Bright Light What was Seiros doing in the meantime then?

[@brightlight8852]

@@SeismicHammer She was helping to build the empire of you speak with the monks in the church they'll put out how a lot of the infrastructure of the empire that makes life easy there was built by Seiros before the war.

[@Ap31920]

Yeah, I think he's trying to bring Rhea down to make edelgard look somewhat redeemable. In my opinion he is being far too charitable to edelgard.

[@zophyissleepy]

CF deserved better. Required more chapters, confusing without playing other routes (I still like her, hehe falcon knight Edelgard).

[@rileymoore7025]

There was clearly room for an attack on Those Who Slither in The Dark. They even mentioned doing just that in the ending, but nothing happened.

[@RePhantomz]

Remmember in her ending "the two fought against those who slither in the dark, and to ensure a society where people can rise and fall by their own merits" this should be the missing chapter lol. Now ppl did judge her based on premature ending.

[@ItsYuhBoyyyy]

And they never explained why we teamed up with the Death Knight

[@RePhantomz]

@@ItsYuhBoyyyy they kinda did tho. death knight is simply commander of empire similar to ladislava and randolph. his backstory is explained on his support with byleth and mercedes. and yes despite his looks he work directly under edelgard and not those who slither. you can see edel lend death knight service to even arundel.

[@Mia-dt3gl]

It’s the villain’s route. It was originally supposed to be the hardest route to unlock.

[@badlucinamain3113]

I'm obviously late to the party, but I personally don't think that Edelgard was ever confronted by evidence that she was wrong, and if she was, that she would have been open to consider it. For example, in her (I believe A level) support with Ferdinand, when he confronts her and says that there is a better way to erase the nobility than what she has planned, and goes on to talk about giving everyone equal access to education, Edelgard openly admits that her previous philosophy was wrong, and then states that she needs people like Ferdinand to tell her when she's wrong. However, since the people she interacts are either simping for her (Hubert) or genuinely believe a war is just, she doesn't ever face any evidence that contradicts her beliefs, and for that reason, she didn't ever consider the possibility that she could be wrong. I don't think Edelgard was unwilling to accept that she could be wrong, it's just that she had no real reason to believe she was. In a way, this is a lot like real life, in which many kids grow up with super far left or far right parents and in a far left or far right area and never face any evidence contrary to the beliefs of their parents, so they go on to adapt their beliefs without any doubts that they are right.

[@Kris_King]

One thing I often see when it comes to people debating on the moral/believes of characters is that they forget to realize they dont see the whole picture. We as the player have an outside perspective and have multiple routes we can play as often as we want. As a character however, you do not. It's like watching a horror movie and knowing the guy with the knife is at the end of the hallway, but the MC doesn't know that and thinks that's the only way to safety. Edelgard is in the exact same scenario, just replace safety with peace for Fodlan. Like you said if there were more people that actually challenged her thought process things could have acted differently. The way she saw it however she had no choice, bcz after the gratuation of Claude and Dimitri her own plan would become a lot more difficult as they'd take their roles as leaders of the kingdom and alliance. She had to act right now or (likely) never, but never was not an option for her.

[@Thanathos1991]

@@Kris_King She DID grow up with Dimitri though (meaning winning him as an ally would have been a smart thing to do) and ANYTHING is better than waging a war. The people worst off in a war are civilians and in this universe people without crests (since the crests are advantages on battlefields). Edelgard not being confronted by other opinions does have to do with her absolutely not accepting them outside of specific examples. Aside from that, she is not some country-bumpkin that wasn't educated and only watched misery around her. What brought her father down had nothing to do with crests and the people experimenting on her and her siblings were *nobles* (in her eyes) not crest-bearers. She missfired her anger and despair at these scemers on crests. I am not faulting her trauma or her ideals. I am just absolutely against the way Edelgard handeled pretty much everything.

[@hyliastone286]

Exactly. Edelgard was wrong, but she wasn't evil.

[@heyitzmae]

Exactly. Edelgard is surrounded by yes men and she knows that and desires people like Ferdinand to give her more perspective. But she doesn’t actively seek those people out, and the few people she is willing to listen to (Hubert and Byleth) just smile and nod at whatever she does

[@soniatsui7606]

@@Thanathos1991 To be fair she doesn't remember that she grew up with Dimitri because of her trauma and PTSD. I agree though. She could have at least stopped Dimitri from wanting to murder her and at best won him as an ally in the holy tomb if she said something like "Those same people who murdered our parents tortured me and have absolute control over the empire. If I don't comply with them and help them rob the church they will kill me and drop -atomic bomb- javelins of light on Enbarr and obliterate the entire city! And they've tortured me for years and given me blood cancer HELP BROTHER". Heck, even Rhea may also be on her side too and actually reforms the church like Edelgard wants if Edelgard actually explains herself (with more reasonable and comprehensive explanations) and helps Rhea fight against the Agarthans. Rhea is a genuinely good person and a close friend of Edelgard's ancestor's. She would offer Edelgard her support once Edelgard gains her trust. All Rhea really has ever wanted is a place and the resources to continue her "bring mommy back" project. Edelgard can just build a research facility in Zanado and put Rhea there and problem solved.

[@superdawge808]

Edelgard is such a beautifully tragic character. It's not a story of a hero rising above evil, or an evil finding the light, or anything so optimistic. She's just her own, sad, wretched existence, with a sad, thought provoking conclusion

[@EverydayYounglife]

Personally I felt she gained a bit of her humanity back when she threw the dagger back at Dimitri, at the last moment she urged Dimitri to do the one thing he didn't want to to completely move on.

[@LordVerdo]

Just browsing Junes... I think she found her peace, realizing it was pointless to struggle. She knew Dimitri would not execute her on his own, so she deliberately threw the dagger to make him act.

[@Cesaryeyo]

The game as a whole is beautifully tragic. And yes, Edelgard is at the center of it. It's easy to understand her motivations and feel for her, and to see what she can't step back. But she's wrong and must be stopped. I think that's what made me feel so uncomfortable playing Crimson Flower, it's the route where you don't have to take the hard choice and shoot the rabid dog, but instead join the pack and perpetuate the problem.

[@nomight273]

i feel CF isnt as bad as people believe

[@zombielepra1726]

No Might It’s a great route, problem is how it changes how you view the other routes if it wasn’t your first, if it’s your second then you gain perspective but still see her fall, if it was your third route like me then you just kinda see her for what she is and appreciate her dream but know how wrong she went about it, Since many people played it as their final route it just leaves them pissed, they waited this long to see her side of the story only for it to be very straight to the point and reveal all this woman needed was someone with the balls to talk to her as a friend not an ally or as the emperor and it’s just kinda cliche and most people expected more

[@superdino196696]

And even Rhea, if you marry her, takes a step back with your help and ends up telling everyone what happened and who she really is, at least that's what I got from it when she talked about "ending the lies"

[@astridmustikasyamsuri6207]

Also in Edelgard's ending, Byleth mostly become this soldier/assassin to end TWSITD instead of spreading n oversee future change like if they become archbishop oversee the land. They also robbed away from their immortality I guess, it is a nice thing, but to see bigger picture in other route, Byleth, enlightened, can took over Rhea's role on making sure all is in check with people that more negotiable. Crimson Flower is only momentary success, while other route invest on something SIlver Snow & marrying Rhea might just like a weird choice but I think it is not as bad as I thought tho

[@calico_queen8976]

@@astridmustikasyamsuri6207 Yeah, another problem I had with CF's route was how Byleth became Hubert 2.0. I thought they would be the catalyst and soften Edelgard's harsh decisions like Ferdie and Hubert but instead they just agree with basically everything Edelgard does.

[@jkarma3356]

@@calico_queen8976 edelgard is still much more reasonable in her route.

[@galten7361]

@cess6477 That's pretty much down to how Byleth is a self-insert and so never has any actual ideology or expresses any meaningful words on events (as seen real early where he doesn't have any options to refuse all 3 lords and in the end where she has no option to refuse ruling Fodlan).

[@pizzaeater8905]

It actually would be interesting to see a game centered around a rebellion against the empire from the old Faerghus and Liecester territories.

[@luvcherry]

it'd be neat if we got a few more dlc side stories like one for that or letting us play as seiros, young seteth and flayn, etc in her campaigns against nemesis

[@roaringthunder115]

You were the chosen one Edelgard, you were supposed to destroy the slitherers! Not join them! I hate you, Dimitri! You were my sister!

[@tako_kawaii1749]

Not that shit again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@kingduckdodo6672]

step sister.

[@tako_kawaii1749]

@@kingduckdodo6672 oh that sound like anakin chokes his step sister

[@MinisterChicken]

You know azure moon is basically revenge of the with when you say that

[@charlesfisher-kh5sw]

but she doesn't hate him... she gets sad that she had to kill him in crimson flower.... even post-redemption arc dimitri hates edelgad more than edelgard hates dimitri.....

[@Filbertsupremacy]

It’s interesting because this means that Claude’s simple quip about how she’s naive is unequivocally true. A great way to display Claude’s intelligence and Edie’s hubris.

[@0axis771]

Coming from someone that only capitalized on Edelgard's war, that's really hypocritical.

[@trigunfox2325]

Without Byleth Claude is useless. If you never showed up Eldagard would have still won the war.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

@@trigunfox2325 Without Byleth, none of the Lords would have succeeded. Dimitri would not have any psychological support to overcome his trauma, Claude would not have gained the trust in people needed to fulfill his goals and Edelgard would have ultimately become a pawn of those who slither in the dark and they would disposed of her and took over Fódlan.

[@siobhanieo72]

Trigun Fox If Byleth never showed up, Edelgard would have won the war solely because she was born as the heir to the most powerful country (Along with help from Those Who Slither In The Dark), not because she’s innately stronger than the other lords

[@Iuckie]

siobhanieo72 She would've won the war, but at what cost? She loses herself in the process.

[@matthewmigler1623]

Ashe's line when you battle him in the final map of Crimson Flower certainly helps your case I feel. I'm paraphrasing, but he says something to the effect of "You've taken our king, our culture, what else must you take from us?" Being the aggressor in this whole conflict, Edelgard's conquest isn't pleasant by any means, and there's no way even after all the fighting ends there wouldn't be citizens of the kingdom, and alliance, as well as followers of the church who don't feel they've lost their sense of identity and values to this new Emperor. That would spark far more conflict than say, the ending of Azure Moon, where the Alliance and Empire may cease to be, Dimitri being who he is is less about tearing things down outright, choosing more incremental reform. Those societies would likely assimilate into the Kingdom, but retain their own cultures somewhat, at least for a time as the continent settles after the war. In this outcome also, the church survives, but is able to undergo any necessary reforms while not destroying the continent's moral center, which is another potential problem stemming from CF's ending. ...Petra is best overall girl, but I'll let it slide since you gave her a shout out at least.

[@diarrene]

Correction “Our pride, our people, our king! Haven’t you had enough?! What else is there for you to take?!”

[@khalidpatterson1422]

when ashe said the what else is there left to take line i was just like "your life so i can get to the final boss" lol

[@DarkAdonisVyers]

Which is hilarious in CF if you recruit all the Blue Lions, except for Dedue, of course. Dimitri goes on about "protecting his people", whilst fighting his people.

[@vaderbuckeye36]

@@DarkAdonisVyers the nobles who attended gareg mach aren't his only people, his people are all of those in the kingdom.

[@fluffychan6000]

@@vaderbuckeye36 this

[@XonixDerps]

Spoiler for deer route: How do you feel knowing in the deer route Hubert discovers the truth but doesn't tell edelguard for fear of her losing everything (after all imagine how she'd feel knowing she got part of everything right not fully) cause I feel like it would've set up for us arresting her and not straight up killing her.

[@SeismicHammer]

I think it plays into how all of the lords' advisor characters are not entirely helpful for the lords' more serious problems.

[@XonixDerps]

@@SeismicHammer true I get that, but that still makes me sad because people will still complain about her being a liar when she legit was never told the truth by Hubert lol

[@XonixDerps]

@@SeismicHammer and to be fair would Hilda be claudes advisor? Because apparently she does help him in the end epilogue and keeps things steady along with Lorenz . So that's kind of weird D:

[@SeismicHammer]

@@XonixDerps Edelgard does lie, or at least deceive people using the Flame Emperor guise. I guess you can say she appears to believe what she says. That just makes her seem a bit dumb, which seems to contradict her being relatively intelligent. Hilda fills in the same slot for Claude since she sort of can't be recruited (except the last week pre-timeskip). Though how much advising she goes in game appears to be less than Dedue and Hubert.

[@XonixDerps]

@@SeismicHammer oh I know, her literal song is about how she has to lie. My problem is she believes it because of how much she has to force things (which is directly opposite to Claude who legit proves you don't always have to it seems) . That's why it kind of bothers me that Hubert cares so much yet refuses to tell her the truth. Probably because they've come so far? As for Hilda yeah in game she isn't as helpful and it seems like the other nobles such as Lorenz help Claude more, he even says so to Lorenz despite disliking each other lol

[@firecraft7032]

I disagree with Edelgard, but I can understand her actions. That in of itself makes her an even better tragic character.

[@MinisterChicken]

Same, I think we need more of rheas perspective, as silver snow was perfect for that, But I do think edelgard is an antagonist

[@Ryodraco]

One minor correction is that Rhea only started effecting Fodlan culture around a thousand years in the past, not "thousands." As far as we know she was uninvolved until Nemesis slaughtered the Nabatea (and she herself may have been a child at the time). I also question if we can really call Rhea "crazy" in any route except Crimson Flower. Traumatized and obsessed with the past sure, but most of her decisions are noted to have been made for legitimate good reasons, the game developers even revealing in an interview that her and her allies rewriting history was not done out of any desire to rule over humans but to create stability and avoid further war. By making the 10 Elites heroes in the war, the empire was more accepted by those who had supported the Elites and already saw them as heroes, and by making Crests gifts from the goddess they accommodated how Crests were already spreading through the clan leaders of the time. The developers say much the same regarding Rhea and her allies slowing down technological progress, they weren't trying to enact a stasis so much as keep things from happening "too fast." It's interesting to note that the result is that Fodlan is about at the same technological level as the outside world, despite the outside world not being influenced by Rhea, suggesting that there were indeed factors that were causing progress to happen "too fast" after the war with Nemesis. Manuela's anatomy model in her office likewise indicates some of the restrictions (i.e. autopsies) were eased or undone over time. Extra irony concerning Edelgard's beliefs, is how the Abyss records reveal that rather than the church it was "those who slither" who enabled the splitting of the Kingdom from the Empire. The church simply made the best they could of the situation to avoid further bloodshed. The similarities between Edelgard and Rhea are indeed fascinating, enough to make one think they could have been great allies if they were aware of just how much they have in common regarding their pasts and helped each other move forward. Hence why I agree it is sad for Edelgard that only Rhea gets a heel realization, comes to regret her questionable deeds, and takes actions to fix things (or allow others the power to fix them) on every route except Crimson Flower, whereas in every route Edelgard ends things as certain as she ever was that she was in the right and refuses to accept any outcome other than her own victory.

[@TheChildofAuraReborn]

THIS right here. This is exactly why I love Rhea as a character more than Edelgard. El doesn’t suffer any kind of consequences in Crimson Flower, she’s never shown as doing something wrong and the plot is basically ass-patting Edelgard to continue her conquest because it’s the right thing to do. What made Dimitri’s path so much more developed is that his descent into darkness is wrong and is treated as such, being that his cruelty to Randolph came back to bite him when Rodrigue is stabbed by Flesche (hope I spelled that right). I wish people could just admit Edelgard was wrong and I’d like the character so much more, but most people tend to worship her blindly.

[@hyliastone286]

@@TheChildofAuraReborn Don't let the toxicity of those who disagree taint your own views too much. I myself am an Edelgard stan, but I agree with you and the op wholeheartedly.

[@TheChildofAuraReborn]

@@hyliastone286 I don't. Honestly I actually have very little problems with Edelgard fans until they start talking to me first to tell me why I'm wrong for liking Dimitri and Rhea more (in a personal preference). You're actually the second most respectful Edelgard fan I've ever met, so I appreciate you a lot.

[@hyliastone286]

@@TheChildofAuraReborn You haven't met many good Edie fans, then.

[@TheChildofAuraReborn]

@@hyliastone286 Not really, unfortunately.

[@blagelaglaze5776]

Spoiler?: So you know how Edelgard has two crests, like Lysithea? While never explicitly confirmed (I think?), I’m pretty sure she also has a short life expectancy just like Lysithea. I feel like this is an underlying cause for Edelgard’s actions. Since her life expectancy is so short, she feels that she needs to accomplish her ideals while she still can. So, war. By controlling the entire land of Fodlan, she can abolish the Crest system herself and pretty quick. I’m not saying it was the right thing, but I think it’s just another factor of her reasoning. Honestly, I’m not much of a speculator and theorist, so there are probably holes in my thinking. But, with the pressure of having a short life expectancy, I would think that it probably pushed Edelgard quickly towards war. And like the video says, she never “takes a step back” because she probably doesn’t have time to. At least, she believes she doesn’t. She doesn’t give herself enough time to thoroughly think her plan completely through. Like the video, she doesn’t move on from the past cause of her limited time. She doesn’t change because she can’t have doubt in her beliefs, or else she might waver and lose precious time. She’s trying to act while she still can. That’s what I think.

[@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502]

Yeah, edlegards reduced life span brings up a lot of interesting discussion because while we can say she should have tried diplomacy, that undeniably would have taken longer to the point where she may have died before she had changed the world, at which point she's just going to have to rely on luck that things turn out how she wants them to.

[@KaiSaeren]

Yea, she has a hero complex, is manipulated, borderline brainwashed and doesnt have a lot of time to live.

[@oc-gg2eq]

Aidan Monner yes and we do learn that Hubert is a vicious person who doesn’t care about murdering edelgard’s enemies given the fact that he’s pretty much her tactician and in charge of her tactics it makes sense why so many of the plans seem cruel and violent

[@zf5214]

I think in Edelgard's and Lysithea's paired ending, it mentions that they both indeed had shortened lifespans.

[@ladygremlin8287]

yeah, her being psychologically compromised is definitely related to her pushing the way she does. it is a common troupe.

[@notmisterepicface4308]

Another thing: the battle between Dimitri and Edelgard in Edelgard’s CF route is very similar to the battle between Nemesis and Rhea in the prologue. Just thought it would be interesting to note.

[@pearsemolloy9656]

In what way? They both took place at Tailtean Plains but other than that I don’t see any similarities

[@B_A-tr]

@@pearsemolloy9656 1. Edel also has the crest of flames. 2. She wants to destroy the children of the godess. 3. Dimitri wants vengeance for his parents on edelgard like seiros did on nemesis 4. Hubert literally says that the kingdom and the church try to replicate said event

[@irritantegast2131]

Another thing. The whole CF ending is actually kinda the same as seiros with nemesis. Edelgard takes down the one she hates, and the one she hates is completely portayed as a murderous beast. Wasn't that the same with seiros? Because after the fight, she completely gets control over fodlan. Just like seiros, and Edelgard als has dark secrets with her. Trying to destroy the agarthans behind her back is her trying to hide away her dark actions to the public. Rhea and edelgard are kinda the same honestly

[@Ninjaananas]

The game made it quite clear that the church wanted to recreate history. Did not work out, though. Also, this time, Rhea was on the side of the elites and the emperor at the side of the Sword of the Creator.

[@Ninjaananas]

@@B_A-tr Edelgard does not want to destroy the Nabateans. She just wants to end their rule over humanity. And she did not kill Dimitri's parents. But this is still a nice parallel.

[@pb4705]

Her ending banner is also pretty hard to be excited about. It's her meanly eyeing over crowds of unhappy people with sinister-looking Hubert in the background...I didn't enjoy the BE route in the slightest and I really had to force myself to trudge through it.

[@A-Wa]

and seeing that TWSID is still on that banner doing there sh*t in secret, didnt make it any better

[@GuranPurin]

I had pretty much emotionally checked out after invading the Alliance. Nothing we were doing ever felt right

[@Potato-fp3cd]

That part bothered me as well. That banner does NOT vibe "liberating Fódlan from a tyranical divine being", something that people tends to claim a lot. I mean, it does, but that banner doesn't really depict it really well. It vibes conquest, full stop. It would have been way cooler if instead ut was something similar like Saint George slaying the dragon (I know it's ironic because he is someone highly venerated by the church, but that's not the point I am trying to make), but Edelgard standing over Rhea's dragon form's corpse, representing her point of view of freeing Fódlan from a "tyrant mad dragon".

[@RockManSSB]

My first route was her ending and I honestly thought everything was justified and was perfectly fine, however after now completing golden deer and currently playing through blue lions (still pre time-skip) I truly understand why edelgard did everything she did, but it could have all been done much better, sadly her life and what had happened with her essentially forced her to act the way she did, even though it was wrong.

[@rustkarl]

Aye same here.

[@benjaminstorace6699]

It is a sad thing that she remains a pawn of the Agarthans throughout, as she refuses to question their version of the past. Yes, the tale comes thru her family, but that family has been manipulated by the Agarthans for centuries, plenty of time to bend a "secret truth" to their own purposes. The lack of consideration of this point is either her or her writers great flaw.

[@danielboyas7645]

When you romance her in crimson flower the little epilogue story's says that Byleth and Edelgard end up defeating the Agarthians so she doesnt exactly end up as a puppet as she just wanted to use them.

[@Vatiaure]

I mean, their version isn't entirely wrong either. It is a pretty clear way to say that both sides have secrets that they don't want anyone to know.

[@tirex3673]

In CF its more, that the Agathans think she is their puppet, when she is outplaying them at every step, Cornelia notes this in her death quote (or she would if there wasn't, what appears to a typo in the english translation that completely reverses the meaning of the entire quote by turning yours into ours): Ah… All is in accordance with this carefully crafted script of (y)ours… What a masterpiece! What a delightful dance…

[@amirgarcia547]

Tirex367 Yeah, it’s the main reason they end up nuking the capital after she kills Cornelia, as a kind of warning shot of ‘hey, remember that if you get out of line we won’t hesitate to eliminate you.’

[@benjaminstorace6699]

@@danielboyas7645 She served the primary purpose they intended for her even if she ended up going against them in the end. And in the act of doing so committed the many dark acts that will, as Boo put forth here, ensure the fall of what she built in a few generations.

[@darriusaustin7436]

Best girl is Annette. I agree wholeheartedly.

[@orangeman3505]

She's smol and cute, I love Annette.

[@catelyntully9494]

The last thing you said about how Rhea and Edelgard make great characters is something I fully agree. I still prefer Rhea but dam both characters are great and amaizing, glad we can appreciate them without being blinded by what we want to believe.

[@acedelta12]

I won't tolerate you favoring Rhea over Edelgard. GLORY TO THE ADRESTIAN EMPIRE, LONG LIVE EMPEROR EDELGARD!

[@CritXB]

@@acedelta12Laughs in golden deer

[@acedelta12]

@@CritXB *shoots Firebird CritXB in the Black Eagle*

[@CritXB]

@@acedelta12 dodges with alert stance+

[@somerandomgoblin2583]

Honestly, as people, I hate both of them. They're monsters in their own rights, whether or not they've been severely traumatized or groomed to be the way they were. As characters, though? I love them, they're fascinating to analyze, and it's a testament to the game's writers to have such nuanced characters at every turn.

[@cardwitch91]

Absolutely agree with everything you said. In fact, I would be surprised if Edelgard's lies even outlive her. The fact that she subjugated Faerghus and Leicester so bloodily and removed their well-loved leaders. The people who followed Claude even fought until the death to resist Edelgard *against* his wishes to flee if it meant death, and those who followed Dimitri (and Rhea) were still fighting for their leaders even when one was dead, the other was mad and the whole city was on fire! The bottom line is that guy starting the war in the first place, win or lose, Edelgard will almost certainly face revolts and uprisings throughout her rule. Each time one happens, even if it's suppressed, it will breed further and further hate towards her and Adrestia within the other two Kingdoms. Worse still, her choice not to pass the Emperor title down through her family means there is no true means of keeping her ideals going beyond her own successor. Finally, perhaps even the successor themselves might simply establish a new imperial family - my money is on Caspar's family, the Bergliez family since they have most of the food and armies - allowing the Agarthans to get their foot back in as soon as Edelgard's gone. By siding with Those Who Sliter in the Dark to eradicate the Church while intending to stab them in the back, Edelgard doesn't confront the problem they pose and allows the people she so despises to lay low long enough to wait until she dies (which is likely to be sooner rather than later because of the two-crest-thing) and the stir up trouble again. So yes, Edelgard's Crimson Flower is the worst-case for Fodlan. I'd argue Verdant Wind is probably the 'healthiest' purely because the threat of Agartha is publically known and most other threats are neutralised, leading to a more productive relationship with Almyra and a proper offensive force to any attacks from TWSitD. As for Azure Moon, one only hopes Hubert's note turns up off-screen in Dimitri's path so he can get clued in re: Agartha, as I'd say in terms of stability Dimitri achieves Edelgard's goal better than she could ever have done: he took back his own kingdom, liberated Leicester and conquered Adrestia. Either way, it is SOOOOOOOO compelling to think about!

[@flamesoul3778]

To add on, if you kill Claude, that would mean almyra would probably retaliate since you literally killed their prince and Heir to the throne.

[@soniatsui7606]

@@flamesoul3778 Not to mention the fact that Tiana actually is the rightful heir to House Riegan and judging from Claude's supports, she would absolutely come back with an army to take back her homeland and avenge her son if Claude's killed.

[@zura8879]

@@flamesoul3778 Some of Claude's paired endings seem to imply that he only gets to become king if he wins the war. Almyra is also a culture that seems to be about proving who is the strongest (mentioned by Cyril in the Hilda/Cyril paralogue), so I'm guessing that they would just call Claude weak. His mother might be a different story, but is she still alive? I don't think the game ever confirms whether she is alive or dead.

[@soniatsui7606]

@@zura8879 Yes she is still alive. Claude always uses the present tense when he talks about her, his support with Balthus mentions his mother is still healthy and kicking, and he mentions bringing Hilda to meet his mother and father in their A support, so she is definitely still around. He also loses the war in AM but he still has a chance to become King judging from what he says to Dimitri, so winning the war is probably just one of the better ways (and likely the least bloody one) to prove himself as the strongest for the throne and not an absolute requirement. Well, you know, killing every last one of your contenders is also a way to prove yourself strongest, and one does sometimes wonder why Claude developed such a strong interest in poison...

[@critica77y77]

In Azure Moon, you do kill Thales as Arundel, so at the very least TWSITD are without their leader.

[@XtraThankYou24]

Finally someone else with *BRIGID PRIDE!!!* lol *Petra* is my favorite female character. I even made her an assassin. 2nd is probably *Bernadetta* because she's just punny.

[@angelarce9747]

My issue with edel Silver snow Rhea: im right! Edel: im right! Blue lions Dimitri: im... not right, Edel: nope, but i am! Golden deer Claude: none of u are right Edel: thats not true at all, i am :) Crimson flower Edel: I AM =)

[@newtonia-uo4889]

This is the issue condensed into phrases

[@sophiapacione]

Haha yup

[@angelarce9747]

@@sophiapacione even rhea in golden deer recognize her mistakes and quit from being priest No matter the route or choices, edelgard will always think thar her way is the only way (to stop violence against the innocent, i must start a war that kills innocent) someone as extremist as her cannot be saved, only death will stop her...which is nice to know that non of the against-edelgard route allows you to spare her, all kills her

[@sophiapacione]

@@angelarce9747 Yeah👍

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

@@angelarce9747 she does not kill innocent people unlike dimitri does and rhea needed to go too also the war was needed.

[@KaiSaeren]

Im always surprised when people are talking about Rhea's past lie as something solely wrong and something solely selfish when her past lie elevated the ten elites into legend, despite them being the people who fought alongside Nemesis. She and her friend, the first emperror of Adrestia and likely many other people came to the conclusion that it would be beneficial to mask this so as to stop the conflict and not breed anymore resetment, Rhea would hardly wanted the people she hated to be venerated in the future, she did it so the war stopped and Fodlan could move on and so that her people, in form of the crests would be at least somehow remembered as "godly" beings. Her actions are not just emotionally motivated, they also take into account Fodlan, even at her lowest point she would still consider this. And its decidedly wrong to say that her past lies screwed the continent over just because of a 5 year war over a thousand years later, like who could have foreseen that, even if she had founded her church on complete truth there is absolutely no certainty, the opposite of it if anything, that there wouldnt be a conflict of some kind, if not over one thing it would be another. People seem to be expecting omnipotency and omniprsence out of her and simply because people are people she gets blamed for fallout for everything, which is just insane to me. But yea, talking about Rhea and Edelgard is awesome, uncovering the whole thing and forming a definitive opinion was a journey of its own in Three Houses :)

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

she lied about the whole church.

[@Novarcharesk]

It's comical that you would say something so retarded and unnuanced in response to a comment that explicitly explains how there is so much more detail and nuance in Rhea's position 🤣@@genericyoutubeaccount4756

[@hewhositsuponfroggychair5722]

I think that the point is that everything that happens is based of a misunderstanding is the saddest part.

[@furiousdeer1233]

Annette IS overall the best girl I am so happy now! Also that was a really good video i now have a completely different outlook on that entire ending and i thank u

[@jameslecitron1039]

"The kind of evil that doesn't realize that it's evil... is the worst kind there is..." - Weather Report, JJBA part 6 Edelgard summed up in one quote. Amazing vid. Keep it up !

[@EverydayYounglife]

I'm pretty sure thats a post WW2 quote when talking about Nazi Germany civilians during a certain trial.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

Well, if you are fighting against a evil, that is no evil, you are evil.

[@jameslecitron1039]

Just browsing Junes... Do you have a link ? I would like to check who said it.

[@0axis771]

Wouldn't this line sum up Rhea? She thinks herself to be the voice of the goddess. She insists that her actions are just. Only when she spent a good time imprisoned by Edelgard until Rhea finally realizes that she did wrong.

[@jameslecitron1039]

Axis Well, I didn’t say it couldn’t also describe Rhea. However, I think it fits more Edelgard since she never changes her mind and dies believing she was right (and she objectively wasn’t).

[@YamacKocovali7]

She has good intentions but she's just too stubborn and (unlike Claude) doesn't want to investigate the truth of the story of Fodlan.

[@BlackfangDragon]

It's less doesn't and more she's already come to her own conclusion about the past and signifies it as absolute truth. Anything that could hint at more is ignored by her for the narrative she creates for herself. Her need for narratives to comfort herself is even detailed in her description of how her father and mother met, something that makes no sense when no Hresvelg has attended Garreg Mach in generations, implied to be since the very schism with the Southern Chudch that split the Church and Empire from each other.

[@mareczek00713]

Problem is, Claude doesn't truly research anything, he listens to only one side, even if he's skeptical. But you see, in Crimson Flower (completed 2 days ago, quarantine has its merits) Thales (disguised as Arundel) gives us alternative version. You see, before the big war Sothis had a different religion for humans... which she used to keep them from technological development so they never break out of their control. Precisely that caused the war - Agarthans worshipping a different religion were free to develop tech and Sothis decided to exterminate every breathing Agarthan before they grow to be a threat, no matter man, woman or child. Also, Nemezis wasn't just an evil bandit looking for power - he discovered that Nabatheans keep humanity from developing. That might be a lie, but it makes sense - they call Sothis "Fell Star" when "Fell" typically connects with a dishonor (like unprovoked attack), intro cinematic and gameplay present same weapons and armor suggesting no technological developnent in over 1000 years. This is the problem - while Claude is a skeptic he makes no real research.

[@tirex3673]

@@mareczek00713 where did you get that from?

[@spy3269]

@@mareczek00713 The problem is though is Thales version is probably a lie as one point in the game when he is talking to the flame emperor and he accidentally spills that Nemesis was nothing more than a thief

[@mareczek00713]

@@spy3269 And how one contradicts another? If anything it holds even more sense as a person living life as Sothis ordered likely would remain oblivious forever, lacking oportunity to learn of the true situation between humans and Nabatheans.

[@jordancarter8792]

Dimitri best boy.

[@zeropelli7026]

Correct

[@peanutbutter6250]

YESS

[@kimarous]

I had a debate with a pro-Edelgard person over an observation I made: that her attempt to off Dimitri and Claude via Kostas was stupid on multiple levels. The other person argued that it was a legitimate first strike for the war she was going to raise. I countered that she wasn't Emperor yet and to justify her actions as such just makes her a war criminal.

[@ghostbl33d65]

As a black eagle i agree on that an assassination attempt on those two would be stupid but judging from her attitude towards Kostas im willing to bet that wasn't exactly her plan but rather someone elses who she decided to enforce for one reason or another. A covert assassination attempt isn't really her style anyway, aside from that time with Kostas she usually fights upfront even behind the mask.

[@BeeLy1011]

El fan here, I will agree that the Kostas stuff was odd and out of character.

[@amirgarcia547]

Kimarous I feel like the Kostas stuff was more so planned by TWISTD and Edelgard was complicit with the idea, considering that she almost gets cleaved by him and you’d think she’d at least have insurance for that.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

@Sean Austin Yeah but that proved to be naught, when she nearly died at the hands of Kostas, if it weren't for Byleth and Claude ( he was the one, who started to retreat, it was his scheme after all).

[@vazquez2073]

There is a theory that the real objective was not to actually kill them, but actually to scare off the professor and be able to put Jeritza on their place. To put it simply, it is revealed after Byleth is invited to become the professor than the one who was actually going to be the professor got scared with the attack and ran away. The reason for some to believe that was the case is this: if she wanted to kill them, why did she hire a bunch of thieves with a dumb leader such as Kostas...instead of using the *Death Knight?* Compared to him, those thieves are rather incompetent at their job. So the plan would be to send off the thieves, the thieves get defeated by the Knights of Seiros, but yet the professor chickens out and runs away, so his replacement would be Jeritza, an ally to the "Flame Emperor". But, the plan end up not going as expected, because Claude screws it up by running away and getting away from the Knights of Seiros, who were supposed to defend them. Here, this post on reddit explains it better. I would consider giving it a read: reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/d6tif7/the_bandit_attack_in_the_prologue_and_how_weve/

[@ThePatchUniverse]

I'm a big fan of Edelgard and the Black Eagles, but when I was playing the Crimson Flower route I was really questioning whether or not I made the right ethical choice and that's what I found really amazing in this game, to be able to really understand what's going on you have to speak with all the characters, try all the houses,... I only did that one now and I loved it, but I still think I have a lot to learn, which is why I really enjoy your videos and you've earned yourself a sub, I will try the other routes very soon but I think I'll miss the Black Eagles. And yeah, Petra is still best girl.

[@charleouel9012]

Well she got a vision she put the work to get it could she have done better most likely (tho note I think she was on a timer since she Spoiler:............. You know the white hair stuff makeing your life shoter and all that jazz....... So may be she did it whit War because she tought it was the only way she could make it in time if she tought for exemple she only had let say 10ish year to live may be she couldn't have got what she wanted to do in that timeframe (in fact MOST LIKELY She couldn't have done it IT REALLY HARD TO CHANGE a SYSTEM whitout War just look at all the stuff in real world where to change a system you need to do a rebellion Just take for exemple the Franch rebellion or other stuff in the same vaine.) Any way it is ethical probably not but does cuting someone else head ethical? not really. So really in life there no really good or bad stuff just opinion. And she does car about her ppl too it not only for her owen sake (she ask and try to give everyone something they can like for her new empire, Hell she even protect an area that she gain form Bandit or what ever (and I think the area in question wasn't even that strategically usefull.)) Any way there isn't a good or a bad side I didn't play all side but am pretty sure they all have there fair share of wrong doing. Blue lions dimitri want to kill every one last of them at some point so I won't call that really morally good even if it after some bad thing hapend to him... Not I don't know Dimitri story at all so am sure there a good reason for him beinging such a mad man. but still. if he can get a pass because of his passe than I think we can give edelgard a pass because she saw like 8 of her sibling die in front of her.

[@AngelicusEXperiment]

@@charleouel9012 Regarding Dimitri, you're right, there is a reason for him becoming a madman. But he doesn't get a pass because of what happened in the past. He gets a pass because he takes the time to reflect upon and reform himself. Dimitri's story is very much a story of redemption, of a man blinded by revenge, until his eyes are opened for him. After that, he doesn't exactly become a peaceful man, but he becomes far more willing to forgive and move on, trying to build bridges rather than burn them.

[@charleouel9012]

@@AngelicusEXperiment I see

[@CrabKFP]

It happened to me with Golden Deer route. I played that route first and I liked what Claude stands for and he makes you doubt about the church a lot. Then I moved on to Blue Lions and Dimitri's points were strong, but not as strong as Claude and I was dissapointed that the final battle didn't conclude everything (instead of GD). My recommendation? Play every other route first and finish with GD because that's the only route were everything is well concluded

[@edelgardvonhresvelg372]

I personally liked BL the most. That house really felt like a family.

[@gabrielrussell5531]

I wonder how many people would defend Ashnard if he was a Waifu since he also plunges the land into war in an attempt to create a meritocracy while being manipulated by the true baddies.

[@SeismicHammer]

I mean, there are people that think Thanos was right, so probably a decent number.

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

Well there are people, who want to fuck with Kylo Ren, despite him being a Monster, so Ashnard having a following would not be in the realm of impossibility.

[@aaa2470]

@@basilofgoodwishes4138 Lol people who want to fuck Kylo Ren are 15 year old teenagers. I would expect more from the people who play this game

[@KaiSaeren]

Yea, as much as Id like to think thats not the reason, she is a waifu and many a thing has been forgiven for that very reason :D On the other hand, because she is a waifu there is this discussion, had it been an ordinary guy not as many people would care :D Iv been on gamefaq checking topics from time to time since the game came out and slowly but surely majority went against Edelgard, it took many a month and thousands of lines of arguments but many people realised she simply isnt right.

[@lyndiss.2017]

I'm surprised that Axis fella didn't come around hijacking this thread.

[@Acrnavy]

It’s so good to hear someone verbalize this. I’ve been fighting this fight since July. I adore her, but people always overlook things.

[@Vegeta241]

So I didn't know if I should have put it here or on your Byleth video, but I always thought of something interesting for the Crimson Flower route. It was always weird that it was so short and that TWSITD don't get dealt with until the character endings. So I thought of something that is admittedly a bit out there and not 100% thought out, but let me run this by you. Everything on Crimson Flower stays the same up to when Rhea is killed. One key thing changes though. Once Rhea is killed and Sothis's crest is destroyed, Byleth... dies. And I don't mean dies and then comes back later, I mean they actually DIE. I feel like that would be a good consequence for the player for the "siding with the villain route". Then after Byleth is dead for good, a few more chapters are added in for Edelgard's redemption. She finds out that she has been lied to by TWSITD, and she leads the remains of her army to take care of what is left and correct the mistakes she had made due to the lies she was fed. Like I said, it was something I thought of just before, and I was wondering what you would think of it.

[@DarkMaster706]

That would make Edelgard a characters that makes any sort of sense, which she is not

[@Vegeta241]

@Breaking the Ice But she takes the side that outright lies to her and did experiments on her. I may have a Blue Lions bias, but I personally feel that Edelgard was in the wrong for this war. The only true evil here was TWSITD. Rhea, while no doubt at all crazy, is definitely not evil. Edelgard decided to lead a war with so much unneeded bloodshed. I'm in no way an Edelgard supporter, I was just trying to throw in an idea to make her seem redeemable. (Plus the fact that it felt like Crimson Flower was just thrown in at the last minute). I'm in the camp that thinks that El is a great character and antagonist, but I just can't see her as a hero.

[@Vegeta241]

@Breaking the Ice I see your point, but I view things a little differently: Dimitri does become a "golden boy" in the end, but like this video describes, he really has to work to get there. He falls into a dark place near and after the time skip, and he ONLY recovers on the Blue Lions route. Similar to Edelgard, if you don't side with him, he is fated to meet tragedy. I'll admit that Rhea does just give up power on this route, but keep in mind, she has been imprisoned (and possibly tortured) by Edelgard and her followers for five years, so obviously she would be in no condition to just take power right away. (Also she was planning on giving up power to Byleth anyway as seen in the chapter before the timeskip.) Claude I feel does things the best. He is essentially doing what Edelgard wants to do, but through uniting Fodlen as opposed to conquering it. (To draw comparisons to another Fire Emblem game, I see Claude is to Chrom as Edelgard is to Walhart. The only difference is that through conquest, Walhart wanted to destroy a dragon that was definitely evil, as opposed to Edelgard, who wanted to kill Rhea (who was crazy and at best, morally questionable) and all of her people (Seteth and Flayn did nothing wrong).) Then you even have the Silver Snow route. Rhea doesn't just give up power here. It is strongly implied that Rhea does in fact die at the end (unless you want to make incest be for the wincest). I will admit that Silver Snow is basically Verdent Wind but without Claude, but there are a few key differences that make it feel just different enough. And of course, there is Crimson Flower, which I still feel is the villainous route. Like I said, I see El as an antagonist, not a full on villain. Her being the way she is... all of that is faulted to Those Who Slither in the Dark. However, I still feel like you are playing as the bad guys here. By working with Edlegard and following what she wants to do, you are working with TWSITD, who's motives line up with El's.

[@Omnirok12]

@@Vegeta241 edelgard takes the side of those who lied to her because her dad is powerless thanks to them, her uncle is being impersonated by them, and they at least meet ends in the first half of the plan having the church as a common enemy. her and hubert literally say they plan to dispose of them later once they have the upper hand. **she needs some ground and a support system to stand on** to confront the church, or else she may end up simply labeled a heretic and thrown to abyss or something of the like. and given edelgard's trauma with being inprisoned... yeah, not happening.

[@Vegeta241]

@@Omnirok12 I mean I get that too, but El's dad forfeits power to her, making her have absolute power over the Empire. Plus, on Crimson Flower, she DOES have a support system and ground to stand on: Byleth and her classmates. That is something that always baffles me about her too, she has the upper hand on every route in the game except her own. Plus, having Byleth on her side means she also has the sword of the creator on her side, and Byleth has Sothis powers.

[@Hemestal]

The thing about Edelgarde people seem to overlook is that if she was removed from a purely fantasy background, she'd be a perfect allegory to countless, real life noblemen that rose up to become conquerors and tyrants out of some personal belief of what they persieved was a greater good and eneded up causing nothing but the death and suffering of millions. And lets say that Crimson Flower's ending was the canonical one, she'd just be getting rid of one bad actor and replacing them with different ones because humans in 3H are just as perverted, devious and downright evil as she believes Rhea and the church are. You cannot abolish hierarchies as those will organically develop even without proper titles, the strong will always try to sieze power from the weak, corruption will always exist and Edelgard isnt immortal to continously overlook her perfect utopia she spilled so much blood to create. She is so willfully ignorant of how sinister her and her allies actions and methods are and she is so ready to throw away the lives of innocents that it feels like she is only in for it because she has a personal grudge with the church and is looking to validate hers and her families suffering, even tho her

[@meterothecrow6270]

Hey guys i know my story sounds fake but look 2 crests

[@azuma4945]

I always wondered why she decided to fight everyone instead of just ASKING FOR HELP

[@Mia-dt3gl]

That’s the magic question. She acts like she’s a liberator trying to achieve ultimate peace, but her entire goal is conquest and subjugation.

[@justinianthe1st790]

Because that's beauty of her as the antagonist. She simply can't trust anyone that isnt Hubert. However she will only trust people (mainly Byleth she still lies about the nukes after all) if CF is the route players go through. Sadly Edelgard will never budge on her position, and even some fans initially (some still do) side with her cause they think she is right. CF is the ignorant path. Everyone in that route will never know the truth of Fodlans past, and genuinely believe there is no other path to peace. Opting to become an oppressive instigator for the sake of peace, becoming that which Edelgard (and her fans that side with her) supposedly despise. Her meritocracy when all is said and done will only cause more chaos. This is why she is a good villain. Not a good protagonist in the slightest, but a very good villain. One who had a choice, but genuinely believed what she does and will do when she wins, is the best choice. Tragic character be tragic.

[@Ryuk45]

How exactly would you expect Rhea or Dmitri to react when they found out her association with the Slithers? How long do you think she lasts before Thales has her thrown back in the rape dungeon and replaced by one of his agents when he finds out she has betrayed them?

[@Yic17Studio]

@@Ryuk45 People act like it's so easy for Edelgard to reach out without realizing the situation she was in. Ask for help? Yeah, she'll either get executed or like you said, thrown back in jail and get tortured. Secondly, who was Edelgard to ask for any help? She was not the emperor at the time. She had no power or say in the matter. No one would listen to her. And people assume Dimitri will help. Really? After hearing the truth that Slithers are behind the Tragedy of Duscur? He would go mad and try to fight them head on which will be a losing battle since Slithers can't even be easily found. OR Dimitri doesn't believe Edelgard and report to Rhea like the good boy he is and the entire plan falls apart. Rhea executes Edelgard and go to war with the Empire (or Slithers) which will just be another all out war. How about Claude? We only know Claude might help because we know him through Golden Deer route. Edelgard didn't know Claude. She had no idea what plans he has for the future. It would be a huge risk. It just makes zero sense for Edelgard to reach out to him.

[@MicksUp]

@@Yic17Studio screaming she hates church and crest in the monastery wouldn't be the best idea, but actually hearing others' opinions on crests and church and actively questioning her ideals definitely would be a decent enough first step point is, she can't even achieve that she's just that dumb

[@FuyuYuki92]

I really like the professional point of view you're taking by analyzing characters like Edelgard and Rhea. I think your take on Edelgard is also very interesting because it suits the observation I've made after playing all of the routes. Edelgard is the *only* one of the three leaders that kind of takes up Rheas positioning in terms of the locations you're visiting while you explore. Dimitri and Claude both are rarely if ever found on the second floor of the reception hall, while Edelgard is mostly to be found there after time skip. I've always thought this might have a meaning in a conceptional sense and your analyzation kinda matches that.

[@fugo5464]

I married rhea in chruch route since my friend told me she dies and I who likes to keep as many people i can alive needed to do so.

[@joegreen3802]

Fugo546 if you get an A rank with her she still survives

[@ianrivera9563]

I understand the hate for her but I would much rather keep her alive myself

[@kayden2119]

I love edelgard as a character but her fandom ruins her for me. They legitimately think she is right and it’s insane. You explain it very well and I’m probably gonna send this to edelgard stans from now on lmao

[@arieloliver3219]

Hey i would like to ask, what did the church do to her? Since the experiments she suffered were fron the blue evil people it seems contradictory to me to ally with them against the church which granted Made an unfair system and obstructed progress but i just don't get her hatred or the vision of conquering all

[@kayden2119]

Ariel Oliver There is no answer. She somehow took her hatred against the people who actually hurt and and put it on the church.

[@stickfigure8416]

That is a pretty bad interpretation of her character. Her opposition towards the church has nothing to do with her trauma. You all act as if she did it out of some personal vendetta, but that's Dimitri's character, not hers.

[@arieloliver3219]

@@stickfigure8416 but when you go crimson flower she says that she knows how evil the church is by personal expirience

[@kayden2119]

StickFigure Yeah she would rather work with the people who want to destroy fodlan. Fits her character.

[@TheAurgelmir]

It just struck me: Edelgard has both the Crest of Seiros and Flames. She embodies both Seiros AND Nemesis. But, instead of the amalgamation being a force for good, she embodies both Rhea's faults and the revolutionary Nemesis. And it makes me want to get another game in Fodlan, but instead of a sequel (How would you even do that) Make it a prequel. Let us see what actually went on between Rhea and Nemesis, but make it as morally grey as possible. Make us question the "truth" we think we know. But... That's maybe too much to ask of the developers. Their writing in Three Houses is the anomaly - I think it's as good as they are capable of.

[@ToxicPea]

It doesn’t have to be as morally grey as three houses, but either way I think Intelligent systems can pull it off. Having a game where you play as mostly Dragon/Nabatean protagonists would probably provide a unique roster and interest in fans who want to return to the continent of Fodlan Also Edelgard having both crests is really interesting and proves that crests ARE important to someone’s personality and fate

[@Sweetblackdragon7]

I really like Edelgard although there were LOTS of hints that her and Hubert were doing a lot of bad things to get to where they were. It surprised me that for someone so bent on helping people she was still willing to do SO MUCH damage. I almost wish there was more to it with her.

[@roccotherayquaza2468]

I love Edelgard as a character. But I know *FOR A FACT* she had other choices.

[@stickfigure8416]

How about instead of just saying she does you actually provide an example?

[@roccotherayquaza2468]

StickFigure ok one that always comes to mine is that she could have talked it with Rhea and come to an agreement to change society. But we all know that Rhea would most likely not listen but it’s worth a shot.

[@stickfigure8416]

@@roccotherayquaza2468 It's "worth a shot"? And then what? If the church helps purge the Agarthans that'd only give them more influence even within the Empire, which would make change harder. Rhea could compromise, but I find that hard to believe considering her reasoning to keep the church in power is to put Sothis in power once she manages to resurrect her. I doubt Edelgard would be fine with that, as she wants mankind to carve their own destiny, and I don't think they would ever agree on this point.

[@roccotherayquaza2468]

StickFigure that’s why I said Rhea would most likely not listen

[@stickfigure8416]

@@roccotherayquaza2468 And yes, it's a fine point, but I still can't see how that could be a better alternative

[@benjaminstorace6699]

Kinda wish we saw a 3-way battle between Hegemon Edelgard, Mad Dragon Rhea, and the player's side. Would have been interesting.

[@v.emiltheii-nd.8094]

I actually thought of a Hegemon Dimitri....and I have nightmares now.

[@benjaminstorace6699]

@@v.emiltheii-nd.8094 I think "Dead Lord Dimitri" has a better ring to it. His spirit consumed by wrathful vengeance to the point where it refuses to rest.

[@v.emiltheii-nd.8094]

@@benjaminstorace6699 Wait...didnt we already got that in VW?

[@benjaminstorace6699]

@@v.emiltheii-nd.8094 Nah that's just post-timeskip pre-getting ahold of himself Dimitri, which of course can't happen because the PC isn't there to nudge him away from fighting Claude. I'm thinking something more akin to a less cognizant, corrupted Berkut, who pulled a Walhart, but based in rage as opposed to stubborness.

[@v.emiltheii-nd.8094]

@@benjaminstorace6699 I meant more of a Ghost Dimitri (and a correction on my part: thats the one we saw in SS, not VW) Berkut + Wallhart sounds brutal.

[@jacopoarmini7889]

there is this weird rule of humanity, that we tend to become what we hate if we hate it hard enough: you hate religion? You become a fanatical atheist (or vice versa), you hate tyranny, you become a tyrant yourself. I believe hatred is a powerful human feeling, but without understanding and compassion (two things Edelgard seems to lack) it's only a snake biting its own tail.

[@darthknightwingphoenix2081]

Y. Ahriman indeed.

[@DameHabanero]

So following your logic, if I were to hate myself a lot I will become myself?

[@dillydel2252]

Deep

[@jacopoarmini7889]

@@DameHabanero yes, actually. Only by understanding yourself can internal change occur, otherwise you'll keep denying yourself and stay the same

[@0axis771]

Actually, Edelgard is VERY compassionate. She's EXTREMELY selfless, willing to lose all joy in her own life, not caring about her own life and even wishing not to have power in the end. But she uses the power and acts because she believes that she NEEDS to act to right the wrongs of the world. Because if she doesn't, more people like her will be born and suffer as a result. It's why Edelgard abdicated the throne and leaves her successor, someone she states will be wise and kind. Edelgard actually is one that puts aside hatred. The moment you see how Edelgard only strips Duke Aegir of his power and position, despite how he was one of the biggest reasons her life became a living hell, her siblings died, and her father basically on his deathbed. And why she's willing to even work with the Agarthans, the very people that experimented on her and her siblings. So no, she's NOT acting out of hatred, but in fact out of compassion and selflessness.

[@FoxyAreku]

Couldn't agree more. I was always so confused by people saying CF is the 'best' route. It's totally the opposite, AM and VW are clearly so much better. She wants a meritocracy, and that just means nothing will change since nobles are clearly superior in merit and wealth then commoners are.

[@bluemoon0371]

Exactly. In Fódlan, the majority of commoners are illiterate and poor, and that alone limits their opportunities severely. Plus, drawing from Leonie's experience, the commoners don't have time to learn anything since they spend all their time farming/hunting just to survive. The nobles of Fódlan (most of them anyway) are very wealthy and have a lot of resources. They could easily learn the meritorious qualities they may lack. Sorry for leaving such a long rant on your comment haha.

[@bluemoon0371]

@Hope I mean, she does place all political power into one person (the Emporer), who can then go on to appoint anyone they want who fits their idea of "merit". A single person that handpicks all the important officials in government should probably raise a few red flags imo. Not to mention that the Emporer gets to choose the next Emporer with no input from the common people whatsoever. So yeah, it's pretty much a dictatorship.

[@armandomendoza7371]

@@bluemoon0371 Edelgard after reading this: No, this isn't how you're supposed to play the game But yeah considering that the commoners don't have much opportunity they have no actual way of having merits and that would things stay the same, could have choosen democracy or even freaking monarchy but whatever

[@malluk3065]

@@armandomendoza7371 Look at Edelgard's A supports with Ferdinand and Constance. The commoners will be fine. Also Monarchy would be a downgrade of her system why would she ever pick it? It's literally how the empire already was and it was garbage.

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

@Knock-At-Your-Front-Door false.

[@fnkako9394]

When I first beat the game, I did it through the Black Eagles route and thought it was pretty fucked up that she started her own revolution (yeah, at the time I didn't know you could do the different path within her route). When I beat the Blue Lions route on my second playthrough... It was terrifying to see what monster she became and at what lengths she will go for her ambitions.

[@lazysylph3312]

What’s the point of giving up on a dream when doing so is death?

[@0axis771]

People love to hate on her because she works with the Agarthans, who turns people into monsters. Well look at that, Edelgard is willing to go through the same torture and turn herself into a monster, meaning that she is someone that is willing to suffer as others have.

[@neoramaredzone8544]

Trustworthy Angel Mastema my only complaint with Edelgard in the blue lions play though Dimitri Asks her three times to stop fighting after he regains his sanity and she declines every single time. She try’s to stab him in the heart even when he held out his hand for her to join him.

[@0axis771]

@@neoramaredzone8544 Edelgard states it herself in her route. It's ideal if people would not fight to begin with, and sometimes an enemy must be so thoroughly crushed before they surrender. But if you were gonna surrender, why fight in the first place. That's basically the case. Edelgard started this war, and if she surrenders, then to her, it's basically backing out on her ideals, backing out on the sacrifices she made. She would rather die fighting for what she believes in than surrender and give up on her ideals. Death is better than submitting to the system. It's why she respects the choices Lonato and the villagers that fought for him, unlike others who felt all he did was a waste. Also, if Edelgard REALLY wanted Dimitri dead, she had every chance to aim for his head or throat. Yet she aimed for his armored shoulder? Really? Either she sucks at aiming from a guy that's right in front of her, or she did it to get him to kill her. Given how she asks Byleth to kill her in the other routes, odds are that the action was to force Dimitri to kill her.

[@neoramaredzone8544]

Axis It’s still an example of how stubborn she was and the epilogue for blue lions it states Dimitri reforms the church with you and Rhea goes down in obscurity. I feel bad for Edelgard but I just wish her character would reflect on her actions or on what’s happening like the other house leaders and find a solution that would benefit everyone. To me Rhea and Edelgard are one of the same Two people who believe in peace but build said peace on lies. If she given up the Empire would have still been intact and her reformation would have been done peacefully with less bloodshed. I understand the characters reasoning for not making peace but the big issue is that if she had given up she would not have submitted to the system because Dimitri would end up changing the church anyways. It just annoys me because I’m every game I play I like to save as many people as possible but Edelgard can’t be saved from Herself.

[@yoshi7193]

Do you remember how Edelgard said that her father was a puppet to TWSITD? The same thing happened to herself, TWSITD won in her route. They are the main villains, and therefore we deserved a proper arc 3 (arc1= academy; arc2= war; arc 3= war against TWSITD) #goldendeer

[@chaosdirge4906]

@DarkEternal6 and let me tell you how that right there is bull. TWSITD had been lurking since the first war with Rhea ended. They were the ones that caused the first empire to split into multiple sections. They had lived underground for years and the goal of TWSITD is literally the entire eradication of humanity. You honestly think that Edelgard managed to get rid of them? The Missle never was fired in Crimson Flower path, it was only because it was fired that they managed to track their home base in the other paths which is why they told you how to find them in the other paths. Edelgard in Crimson Flower was their puppet and they spent their lives hunting them down while all of TWSITD just bid their time waiting to start the next etch in their plan. It didn't say she crushed them, it said that she hunted them and tried to root them out. The fact is, they've played that game far longer than her.

[@colorbenja6163]

@@chaosdirge4906 Dude, no. They did defeat them, some endings tell us that they won a war against them and even get to Shambala because the missile DID got fired in CF. Thales used it to destroy Arianrhod as a retaliation for Edelgard and co killing Cornelia.

[@chaosdirge4906]

@@colorbenja6163 Again, realistically this would not happen. I don't freaking care what the ending says These people literally hid thousands of years just to appear later 2 separate times to fragment the nation just a little more. Do you honestly think a text saying "We beat them" honestly means "we beat them" Its like the Dragon, The GBA games, you don't beat them, they install themselves in shadow governments and gradually kill those that oppose them. She would not win, The missle was not fired in her playthrough and they would have summoned Nemesis simply because they would have had time to complete the ritual while everyone was fighting rhea. Despite all of this, Even if you take alll of that at face value that it didn't happen the fact of the matter is simple that those that slither would be in a far more advantageous position because they freaking had agents in her camp spying on her.

[@melanthahoang831]

@@chaosdirge4906 "Once TWSITD is forever vanquished"-Byleth x Jeritza end card. Also in their S support, they literally fighting in Shambhala or at least one of their underground base.

[@yanivcookieman3003]

but they didnt win in crimson flower, they were disposed of quitely. they fought they were contrilling her just like how rhea thought she controlled the empire and then she striked when the time was right. except maybe development shenanigans the reason i think TWSLITD were not the final boss of CF is because the main theme of CF is regaining/keeping one's humanity even in conflict, wether its Edelgard coming down from her high horse or byleth literally doing so. it fits that the last boss would be the only thing keeping her from realising her dream. and thats what the agarthans dont get, one edel get control of fodlan, they are done for

[@trulymrword]

The Silver Snow may melt but it will be the water of life. The Verdant Wind may weaken but never falter. The absence of the Azure Moon is not forever but the Crimson Flower is destined to wilt.

[@Edgy_Shrek]

Of all the KZbin comments I've seen, this is the best.

[@alexmartin6561]

People that say war is the only solution make me sick. You don't really understand what war entails unless you've lived through it. There is no worse thing you can do than plunge a country into war. Fuck, did you people learn nothing form all past wars?

[@haveagoodday7021]

I think she was just so stubborn, that it'd lead to her dying for her ideals in every route that's not her own. So even if she learned the truth, I don't think it'll make her reconsider her path, since she's so dead set on it. Also Edelgard feels like the "He Who Fights Monsters" where the person was so deadset on their goals and destroying somebody, in turn, they become just as bad if not worse that that person. Edelgard wanted to destroy Rhea, who she saw as a tyrant that would doom Fodlan, so much so, that she ends up becoming the very thing she thinks Rhea is. Also like you said in the video, the Empire will break apart again. Just like in our history, the people forcibly united won't consider themselves part of the Empire. Basically their Nationalism will cause them to rebel again and then it's back at square one, effectively making Edelgard's war almost useless.

[@0axis771]

Every ending is bound to fail. Even the other routes would also break apart again. It's sad that people think that it's great to nitpick one side and think that it's the only thing that fails, when every route ending can easily fail.

[@callanthemeryllia252]

@@0axis771 Sure, literally every happy ending in fiction ever has the chance to fail down the line. The difference is the amount of believability accorded to each ending in the narrative, as well as the fulfillment of certain narrative expectations (Ex: as readers, we expect in fiction that "when people do bad things, that bad karma comes back to bite them in the ass.") Yes, even if these types of expectations don't hold true to reality, we often seek them out in fiction. For example, if I wrote a story where the protagonist murders an innocent man, and then made the ending "the protagonist gets away with it and never gets questioned or faces any kind of comeuppance," the majority of readers would be rioting and yelling "wow this ending sucks crap, he just gets away with it wtf." In contrast, if I wrote another story where the protagonist murders an innocent man, and then made the ending "the protagonist turns himself in, having learned his lesson, and is now repentant for his crimes," the majority of readers would like go "yeah this ending makes sense morally." It's a similar principle going on here. You believe the Empire at the end of CF is all fine and dandy, and the writers did write it that way. But for other people, it's jarring to see the Empire "getting away" with certain actions which are generally looked down upon, such as allying with the one 100% evil faction in Fodlan, declaring war without even attempting diplomacy, erasing the histories of the conquered nations, etc. Of course these actions are fine to you, but it's disingenuous to call these complaints "nitpicking" when it does make at least some sense for people to find these reprehensible. And yes, imperialist conquest has a higher tendency to spark rebellions from a discontent citizenry down the line when compared to other types of unification. Don't get me wrong, I dislike how the other endings (AM, VW, SS) also have the protagonists unifying the continent, since it blurs the philosophical differences between the house leaders and is kind of lazy writing. But the difference is that the unification in those cases was less violent (Dimitri's dead in VW so there's no feasible heir to Faergus, Claude happily hands the Alliance over to Dimitri in AM). In fact, if there was a viable alternative ruler for the Empire after Edelgard's death, Dimitri/Claude would probably have been happy to go back to their own respective countries and let that person rule Adrestia, keeping the continent divided.

[@0axis771]

@@callanthemeryllia252 One correction. It's NOT less violent in the other routes. In fact, CF has the least bloody route. No Dukedom, no Gronder field battle, nobles side with Edelgard more willingly, Claude even states that the Alliance is mostly intact and hasn't been in war against anyone during the five years, and Faerghus is more stable thanks to Rhea's presence. So CF ends with the Empire and Alliance mostly unharmed, and Faerghus at worst suffering two destroyed cities. The non-CF routes has Faerghus in a civil war, the Alliance fractured with violent discord being spread, and the Empire ultimately falling. In the end, all three nations in non-CF routes suffer tremendously. So its ironic that CF, where you side with the aggressor, has the least bloody fights.

[@angelarce9747]

@@0axis771 i wonder how byleth affects that, its not lile edelgard wanted a least bloody conflict, since she is willing to do it on the others route, so, Cf being less bloody its for byleth itself, not edelgard

[@0axis771]

@@angelarce9747 It's more that she had the emotional support of Byleth and the Black Eagle Strike Force and fought alongside her. It's given Edelgard the chance to refuse to be more reliant on the Agarthans. Add in that Rhea didn't get captured, which allowed her to escape into the Kingdom to stabilize things and prevent Cornelia from trying anything.

[@FuyuYuki92]

Even after all this time, I still keep coming back to your FE3H videos. I absolutely love them and boy do I wish there were more.

[@TheChildofAuraReborn]

I normally adore a good antagonist or villain, provided that they're written with a sturdy-enough code that they don't accidentally fall into hypocrisy without it being addressed as a negative point (If they have a moment of hypocrisy, it's addressed in-universe and not something that has to be seen by the fandom). Think about characters like Solf J. Kimblee from Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood or Askeladd from Vinland Saga (actually Edelgard should have been written like Askeladd if you ask me). I cannot even enjoy Edelgard as an antagonist, especially when the game tries to ham-fist the fact that she has some kind of sick infatuation with Byleth and how her words allude to that, especially in non-CF routes (i.e. "I wish you were a person who would listen to reason" when you fight her post-Flame Emperor reveal, or "I wanted to walk with you" or "Why do I have this feeling of sadness?"), it even makes a beautiful song like Edge of Dawn sound creepy as heck when you think about how poorly her character suffers from a narrow-minded irrational way of thinking. But I think the worst offense is how a chunk of Edelgard fans excuse or defend her actions in the game because "She had reasons!" and it's the same infuriating lack of karma or confrontation that the game deals with. When you play AM, Dimitri realizes how wrong his path of revenge was, and it took Fleche stabbing Rodrigue to act as punishment for his folly. Now Edelgard: A) Is never confronted for knowing that Monica was actually Kronya, was responsible for the switch, and therefore an accessory to Jeralt's death. B) Is never confronted for lying about the Javelins of Light being the weapons of Those Who Slither in the Dark, because she says that the Church was responsible and thinks lying and manipulating her friends is so much better. C) Is virtually ass-patted in her campaign, any basic questioning of "is this really the right thing to do" is met with affirmations. D) Isn't called out for being a puppet, down to the last string, of TWSitD and even believing EVERYTHING they told her about the Church when they themselves were responsible for heinous crimes. The only kind of comeuppance she gets is being killed in the other routes, and even in Azure Moon our sweet boy Dimitri is STILL willing to reach his hand out in peace, and in a mental break-down she stabs him. TL;DR Edelgard doesn't work as an antagonist when she's given a chance to be a hero and her antagonistic actions are played as "right".

[@lyndiss.2017]

Swim around the comment section. Especially the one with a lot of comments. You'll see a few repeated names; you'll remember the names of her stans (not fans, some of her fans are sensible) very soon... 😂 /cough *Axis* cough

[@tomasgarcia7499]

I like how you point out how similar her and Rhea are....I am beginning to think the same as well!

[@jeanbeard1175]

Those who slither in the dark are the most poorly used aspect of the game. Them having nukes shatter any credibility from Claude's path and affect the other routes as well. They should have been "freemasons" working to dethroning Rhea, then enthroning Edelgarde and usher in a magical empire hellbent on creating gods out of mortals. They could even have had the sly grooming of Edelgarde become overt more mind control/manchurian candidate-esque and lead the Edelgarde path into dethroning a puppet-monster Edelgarde for the sake of a more normal Fodlan since her path is so much shorter

[@FieryMeltman]

How do the nukes "shatter any credibility from Claude's path"? They literally deal with them in his route. The only routes where the nukes make potential plotholes are Azure Moon and especially Crimson Flower.

[@dreamer9398]

Huh?

[@mawile3037]

@@FieryMeltman yeah they're definitely holes, we dont get to see the same destruction when we go Claude, they just get reported " X location got annihilated " And I figure at the beginning it would have been the case of wtf just happened, what happened at the Valley of Torment¿ but I played GD first (even tho I wanted BE first, but I figured if I did that I wouldn't pick up the game again so after I did GD I played BL )

[@jeremytewari3346]

I know the game already got hella delayed, but I really think it would've benefited from delaying it further and making the routes more different, especially Part 1, and I think TWSITD could've basically been the perfect way to do that. Because the house leaders are so different, it makes almost no sense that every mission plays out in practically the same way, so I think it would make more sense for their more significant members (Kronya, Solon, and Thales) to meet their ends in different spots throughout the routes. For example, Dimitri truly loses his mind in Remire, so it would make sense for him to be so dedicated to the fight that he kills Solon then and there, and the route could then develop in a different direction, as Kronya could potentially escape. Edelgard's connection to TWSITD is really weird in CF, considering how her battle quotes in Part 1 seem to imply that she's betraying them, which makes it harder to believe that they still trust her in Part 2, so Solon and Kronya could both survive in her route and then be future bosses in Part 2. Claude meanwhile, could have possibly completely are almost completely destroyed TWSITD as his endless quest for knowledge may have led to him dedicating his efforts to learning about and defeating them. This could also extend to changes as early as Lonato, who is being influenced by TWSITD. Basically, TWSITD should have been in different positions of power going into Part 2 (Thriving in CF and SS, collapsing in AM, basically gone in VW). Not only could this be used to increase the length of CF, it could've been what was necessary to differentiate SS and VW, where all of the TWSITD stuff and Nemesis is in SS and VW could involve Almyra, Brigid, and Dagda to explore Claude's united world ambitions.

[@mawile3037]

@@jeremytewari3346 I see you're a Golden Deer lol, a lot of what you said is skewed in his favor But yeah, they could have done more, Ashen Wolves could have played out more in certain sections, of the story, especially since their supports are so awkward, Balthus is exclusively GD while Constance has so much more to do with the Empire, and even then chances are it could have been revealed that TWSTD were the ones to kill her parents and not the Dagdan invasion to get her to wonder off and they just kept an eye on her, Aubin was top tier mage so they didnt want to mess with him but when he was finally forced to let go again, Aelfric could have been more than a Simp smh But it seems like a lot of the writting was pooled into the supports. The supports are easily some of the best story content, the routes themselves are remodels of the main story but those supports, some of those stories you just dont see coming

[@zbert257]

This put me in so much ease because I keep thinking about the aftermath and Edelgard being white knighted over and it's nice to hear someone thoughts on this as well makes me feel less lonely in my thoughts.

[@calico_queen8976]

I find it so compleling that Edie is basically bookDany (Pls not the bad TV Dany) wherein they both know that the path they are going down will be require them to be ruthless and paint them in a bad light to which they are fine with hence Dany's words "If I look back I am lost and Edie's Edge of Dawn. Their longing for their past causes then to try to take what they assume will bring the things they have lost. They know they'll become monsters at some point in their life if they continue but to them, it's set in stone and they are willing to go through their ideals and ambitions for the sake of the world they keep envisioning.

[@pyrobowser158]

That was a really great vid. In all the 3H discussion I've seen, this is...actually a point I don't recall seeing before or if I have it's just an extremely rare one that I perhaps forgot about. Point being i'd say I agree with this, and it's just another reason for me to love this character. Tho who am I kidding, I love all the lords + Rhea lmao.

[@landondotson5469]

Also her meritocracy invites discrimination because those with the qualifications of the ideal jobs will succeed while those who don’t qualify won’t make it. And a rich noble could easily buy their way to be taught to have these merits. The meritocracy that Edelgard strives for us flawed and it will encourage more prejudice and discrimination.

[@yunuss58]

Like in real life, it is still better than the shit that was before.

[@landondotson5469]

yunuss58 The previous state of Fodlan wasn’t good either because it’s just feudalism. But there some semblance of order. Edelgard’s Fodlan would just repeat the same atrocities that happened before except you will see more imperial flags

[@yunuss58]

@@landondotson5469 With Edelgard there is at least hope that things will change, especially if free education becomes a thing. If I had to rank the endings on how I believe what is best it would be like this. CF>VW>SS>>>>>>>>>>>>AM.

[@hypotheticaltapeworm]

@@landondotson5469 I know you think you're making a point, but you're actually just making things up to fill in blanks the game leaves in the most bad-faith way possible. The game doesn't say she failed, and in fact calls her vision "true peace" in her ending. We don't know all details about her meritocracy proposal, so you cannot say it will invite discrimination or will fail because nothing from the text supports that.

[@hypotheticaltapeworm]

@ATripToMars She? Finds a way to reverse Crests? Did you play Crimson Flower at all?

[@venustheanimecat6513]

Many of the Black Eagles and recruited character’s dialogues show them questioning if they should have joined the Empire or not. Examples would be Felix saying: This future you and Edelgard are fighting for better be worth all this bloodshed. And Ferdinand and Alois wondering what if they didn’t side with Empire. It’s a clever bit of lamp shading and this video really puts their concerns into perspective.

[@Ninjaananas]

Though this also happens in other routes.

[@lunarcountdown]

Everything you pointed out is why I like Edelgard’s character conceptually, and why I’m so pissed at how the writing actually portrayed her and her execution in the story. She had so much potential, but the writers failed to deliver.

[@EverydayYounglife]

The way BL and GD go, the BE story might have been intentional, since it's already known that the game started with BL and built off that.

[@autumn-vl5ez]

Totally agree. It doesn't help that the game is hyperfocused on the player instead of Edelgard's development, so that really impacted her already short route a lot.

[@Spore9996]

Ugh, you hit the nail on the head! I want to adore CF, but it's just not there! D:

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

@@EverydayYounglife Time constraints and new idea Popping without balancing them out causes this. I would have just made the story without Byleth, it's better anyway.

[@KaiSaeren]

I really wanted to like her as well, but there is just so much wrong and missing there that I couldnt. When playing CF for the first time, as my first route I couldnt believe you dont even get the option to ask her whether she was involved with the murder of your father.. I mean she hang out with Monica all the time, the death knight is her subordinate, all these things you never get to find out from her because the writers just didnt write them. It could have been a good ethical dilema but as is I never even considered thinking that I was right or justified joining Edelgard... and that was in her own route.

[@commissarlegion1413]

As a wise man once said "Abandon reason know only war"

[@nerobiblios4086]

Edelgard mindset: > Gets tortured by TWSITD > Blames Crests > Proceeds to side with the people who tortured her in the first place

[@Yic17Studio]

Not like she has much of a choice. Choice #1: Work with them (use them) and then defeat them later. Choice #2: Work with them for real and become a villain for real. Choice #3: Kill herself and not allow TWSITD to use her as a pawn. People act like Edelgard was in control or had any power. She didn't. She was not the emperor and the Empire was being controlled by TWSITD. Edelgard was nothing but a pawn. She had no power or ability to fight against them. She could not get allies from either the Kingdom or Alliance. Nobody would believe her to begin with. And even if they do, TWSITD will most likely find out Edelgard is trying to fight them and shut it down immediately. People really need to understand the situation Edelgard was in before they come up with all these easy, obvious solutions.

[@shadownight9956]

Ok boomer

[@Yic17Studio]

​@UCnpY8tJHHmkdYGHCP4ZUEzg I disagree. I've thought about it thoroughly. I think he would most definitely NOT believe her OR believe her but cause the entire plan to fail. For one, if Edelgard tells Dimitri the WHOLE TRUTH, it's going to include the truth behind the tragedy of Duscur which means Dimitri will know that TWSITD are working with Edelgard. What do you think Dimitri is going to do? Of course he is going to try to fight them. He will lose the focus on Rhea and go mad over the Slithers. Without the Slither's help, the entire plan to take down Rhea & the Church will not work. Secondly, just because you believe Dimitri will believe Edelgard doesn't mean Edelgard believes that Dimitri will believe her. It is a HUGE risk for her to tell anyone. Edelgard hadn't known Dimitri for YEARS. How can she trust that he will believe her? She will be risking her life & the entire plan to take down Rhea. You think Dimitri will believe her only because you know him after Blue Lions story. You have to put yourself in Edelgard's shoes/position and think from her perspective. It's not that easy. Also, even knowing Dimitri, it's not so certain that he will help her. You see how in Black Eagles route Dimitri sided with Rhea and the Church? He is a loyal servant. If he did not believe Edelgard, he will alert Rhea and the whole plan will fail. It makes absolutely zero sense for Edelgard to take this risk and tell Dimitri. Seriously, people always make it seem like it's so easy without actually understanding the position Edelgard was in. She was in an impossible situation and she did the best she could.

[@meta527II]

Yic17 Studio but Boofire said she DID have more choices

[@Yic17Studio]

@@meta527II ​And I disagree with him. I don't think he really thought it through thoroughly. I even think he got several facts incorrect. Just because someone made a video that got a lot of views doesn't mean everything they said is correct. If you can think of other choices Edelgard's got, then feel free to share with me because so far all the people I've debated, nobody has actually come up with reasonable explanations when they REALLY understand Edelgard's situation and perspective.

[@jessicar.3600]

Im right there with you with Rhea/Edelgard They are both my favorite characters as well, I find their balance/contrast very appealing and its the most interesting thing in the game for me I find it kinda funny when there is people justifies one but discards the reasoning of the other one when there are so many parallels.

[@davidcrossley7058]

I liked the part where as flame emperor she tries to recruit you to take on TWSITD implying she actually has good motivations and was betrayed by her allies mere seconds after mentioning ‘the death knight’, someone who by your experience at that point is someone who kidnaps young girls and steals their blood, for kicks, was her subordinate.

[@rustkarl]

I must applaud your insightful analysis and measured response. You dear sir are a joy to listen to.

[@circumquentiam]

My biggest problem with Edelgard and why I can never truly side with her is that despite talking a lot about how crests will no longer matter and society will change for the better she never actually goes into much detail about what she means by that. It’s so vague that it could literally mean anything from a fascist regime to a communist paradise. She just never really explains what exactly we’re supposed to be fighting for

[@jkarma3356]

she is not a facist in the slightest or communist what she believes in is more closely related to capitalism.

[@galten7361]

It's just Legalism/Confucianism with some shades of Oda Nobunaga and the red tyrant (see past red emperors like Arvis or Rudolf). All of Edelgard's word on her plans for society matches well with the writings of the likes of Mencius and how Qin China was organized. Many fans just aren't well read on the inspirations for Three Houses so they miss this.

[@senorgogagog]

Edelgard's end goal lacks cohesion, as she intends to achieve equality through a violent campaign-conspiring with terrorists and being a full-fledged seditionist also helps to deface her character. Trying to justify her actions feels like nothing more than rationalization.

[@Nethal12]

Dimitri ironically embodies edalgards ideals better than her as he implements a new form of government which grants people the right to actively participate. His house followers like Sylvain will convince the nobles that crests are not necessary. He will also stomp out any oppression by taking out an oppressive hierarchy which edalgard isn’t opposed to having

[@Cast1410]

She intends to put a stop to a violent system of oppression that wasn’t going to end peacefully any other time soon through the use of force. You know who else did that exact same thing? Abraham Lincoln. Y’all really living in an echo chamber fr. Oh she teamed up with the slitherers to acomplish this goal? Who else in history had to do morally questionable things to reach an end goal of getting rid of a really bad force in the world? Oh that’s right the United States teaming up with the Soviet Union to put an end to Nazi germany which I’m fairly confident EVERYONE can agree was ultimately a good thing. Crazy. Oh her goal lacks cohesion does it? A lot of people regard Claude’s ending as the best ending as it solves all of the overarching problems that led to the events in the story. BUT if you had played Edelgard route and actually payed attention you’d realize that all of the major overarching problems that Claude’s route solves Edelgards also solves. Lemme jog your memory real quick- The churches corruption is over in both, both establish world peace and good relations with other nations (YES EVEN IN EDEL’s ROUTE) assuming Petra is still alive and you spared Claude. Both routes put an end to the crest systems opression of the people. Both routes end with the slitherers wiped out. Seriously saying stuff like this makes me question if you’re just repeating rhetoric rather than forming an actual opinion with all the knowledge to do so. Edelgard was right and the game itself makes this painfully obvious. You sound like a modern day liberal when you say stuff like this online without actually thinking about it.

[@cannellaorso4171]

This was excellently done. Thank you.

[@nickgennady]

But the devs said Rhea’s lie was the only way to end the war without having the descendent of the 10 elites or Dragons like Rhea persecuted . Obviously she had to lie to hide the truth about crests because people knowing how to make them would put a direct target on her and remaining dragons. She ended a war she never started with a necessary lie and Edelgard started a war out of ignorance and lied for her own selfish desires. A lot of the nobles children of blue lions including there future king were already questioning crests and would have reformed anyway and with there good relationship with the church Rhea would have supported them. It’s not right to blame Edelgard’s war on Rhea. She did keep peace for 700 years which is a crazy achievement.

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

false edelgard was right about rhea actually.

[@ChrisHall-ci9xd]

Just proves Lysithea will always be best girl.

[@aaa2470]

I liked El initially but all the fans simping for her and shitting on other characters(e.g. Dimitri, Rhea) just because they were enemies of her kinda ruined it for me. The fans always claim that she's getting unjust hate but then they go and shit on other characters without trying to understand their motives and backstories. If another FE games comes out I'm not gonna join any discussions about it.

[@lyndiss.2017]

High five over this. I both like and dislike Edie (like her strengths, dislike her shortcomings), but her fans can really push my dislike straight up to "urgh go away". Especially when legitimate criticisms of her appear and the fans started to do mental gymnastics and turning a blind eye on her problems. When they even start to shit on other characters just to prop her up-like Dimitri and Rhea, who are their favorite targets, it becomes even uglier. The lengths they would go to make all who thought differently from Edie as weak-minded, inept, etc. *Urgh go away.*

[@raviolibirb8009]

@@lyndiss.2017 Eyy same here. I both like and dislike her (although i still mostly on the dislike side, i like her design and voice only) Her simps just can't accept the fact that their 2d waifu has people who hates her motives. I tried to make understand of her goals but i never able to even when replying her route. I swear, they liked edelgard because she's pretty, waifuable and bisexual. Like, if you switch edelgard's design with some ugly bastard, people would've shit on him for nonstop while some will try to sympathize with him just because

[@teddy_scott36]

Edelgard is such well written character. I chose the Black Eagles so her character arc was fantastic in my play through

[@akechispancakeprincess8608]

“You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become a villain.”

[@GreatSikoTM]

Except she was never a hero to begin with

[@akechispancakeprincess8608]

@@GreatSikoTM True

[@xRawrC00kiex]

Edelgard keeps talking about meritocracy and people who put in effort are rewarded, but we’re never actually shown it in practice with cutscenes featuring the lives of peasants. Triangle Strategy has Gustadolph with very similar ideologies to Edelgard as a person who runs a meritocracy trying to overthrow a corrupt church. And we can see under that system the country is extremely impoverished because the common peasant, weak, elderly, and disabled gets completely trampled by the system of merit while only the educated elites and privileged rise to the top. Edelgard’s meritocracy would be even worse though because people with crests literally have superpowers, increased strength, can wield relic superweapons. She can get rid of the crest system so people with crests aren’t automatically nobles. But crests will still stay in the bloodlines and give the crest families an edge over the peasants and they will end up rising to the top anyways. So unless if Edelgard decides to genocide or put every person with crests in concentration camps, her Empire would be no better than it was before the war.

[@jkarma3356]

false i seee you did not play either game at all also what you described was fodlan under rhea.

[@GoldenRose116]

What maes it even worse is that all of her noble friends get to keep their noble titles. Not to mention she only ever talks with two commoners which gives her a very shallow view about how the 99% lives and what they deal with

[@davidhoran5001]

For me, if you chose to Rhea she does change for the better. My question is that why is it that Edelgard didn’t try to talk to Dimitiri or Seteh? Nothing was stopping her. This action makes it hard for me to side with her because Rhea didn’t snubbed her.

[@BioMatic2]

i mean giving he was raised under the Aderesttian nobility, where a member of her own family (remember that Thales is posing as Edelgard uncle) sold her out, is safe to asume that Edelgard is not a big fun of trust. Probably she is fearing to end somewhat like how Ned Stark ended in Game of Thrones. Telling Edelgard to trust someone else is like asking Dimitri to just calm down.

[@davidhoran5001]

BioMatic2 but Dimitiri was literally the nicest person she meet and knows her pain too. Plus Edelgard problaly knows most of the identity of Agarthans so she would know Dimitiri not involved. And if she was willing to trust Byleth, why not Claude who is somewhat netrual to this and could do the work of finding clues for her. Also talking with Dimitiri would problaly help the both of them. It’s just stupid that she went to zero to 100 with her vague excuse of a plan without at least finding other options.

[@shadownight9956]

David Horan how do you know that would work man?

[@galten7361]

Dimitri never tried to offer a non-aggression pact in his route either.

[@Nimm-p8o]

@@galten7361 but he is? He tried to talk with Edelgard about their situation at least

[@jlcdavenport6268]

Some really good takes on Edelgard combined with some absolutely shit takes on Rhea, damn, that was a ride. "Rhea is crazy", "Rhea's lie was because she couldn't move on". Why would Rhea making heroes of the people she despises more than anything be because she couldn't move on? Wouldn't it be far more reasonable to assume it's to prevent the fact that you can literally start your own noble house by butchering Rhea's family from getting out? That seems more logical. Nevermind the apparent weight of her lies that Fodlan couldn't bear... when everything that wound up being instigated and everything that happened did so because of the Slitherers, not because of any lie Rhea told. A more interesting dichotomy between Rhea and Edelgard, to me, isn't "Dey both bad!" but that they both want the exact same thing. Which is why Edelgard completely buying Slitherer propoganda is such a shame. They both hate Crests, they both hate the way the world is, and they both despise the Slitherers. Rhea hasn't been manipulating the world, she's never shown to particularly care about any one country's actions (and would likely prefer that the Empire did return and unite Fodlan, since it was where she had historic, personal ties to), if Edelgard offered information about the Slitherers to Rhea, then Rhea would throw the full force of her influence into destroying them, and would have been more than happy to help Edelgard create a society without crests (something that's only a few generations from happening anyway). Rhea was Edelgard's greatest ally, that's the missed opportunity here. And that's, again, just another facet of the Slitherers fucking literally everything up.

[@MsAnimefan95]

I firmly believe that if Rhea had gotten wind of what Edelgard had gone through, she would have gone full scorched earth looking for the slithers.

[@jlcdavenport6268]

@@MsAnimefan95 If Rhea even knew the Slitherers were still around, she would have gone absolutely scorched earth on them. She suffered deeply at their hands and would never, ever have forgiven them.

[@Yugi6020]

Great analysis! As someone who played through BE Crimson Flower route I've always thought about it "if only Edelgard went about this a different way". But that's also what makes me love the route too. It doesn't paint the characters as black and white. As others have said she's more portrayed as a tragic character or antagonist that's blinded by her own belief and ideals due to her own situation with her family, TWSITD and her being short lived from the crest experiments. It definitely doesn't justify her actions in any means in my opinion but I did see it as a tragic route. But never less this game was probably amongst my favourite JRPG of all times due to its amazing story telling and diversity in their routes.

[@TDSFounder]

That's right, since Crimson Flower has Byleth lose his powers he won't live as long as the other routes. That means he can't pull the same thing Rhea did in shepherding humanity. That means once they are gone, they're basically back to square one.

[@starterking]

Better hope you didn't kill Seth and Flyan then

[@Omnirok12]

this is so dumb. just because a revolution might have a figurehead it doesn't mean that their effects only span as long as their lifetime.

[@SeismicHammer]

@@Omnirok12 Historically, most revolutions utterly fail in their goals long term, often times backfiring. There is a bit of a survivor bias in this regard. The effects may last a long time, but often, it isn't the effect that was actually desired.

[@Omnirok12]

@@SeismicHammer did the french revolution not trigger the decline of absolutist monarchies all around?

[@SeismicHammer]

@@Omnirok12 Not really, it actually strengthened some of them, given that the Reign of Terror wasn't exactly a stunning success for democracy. It also led to the rise of Napoleon, who crowned himself Emperor and had absolute rule. His wars actually made it easier for Prussia to form the Imperial Germany by dismantling the Holy Roman Empire. What really destroyed absolute monarchies in Europe was WW1. Imperial Germany was actually on the rise until then (It was formed in 1870, well after the French Revolution). The UK and Netherlands also had been mixed monarchies for a long time by then. You could argue that it did help create the situation that collapsed many absolutist monarchies, but it certainly didn't trigger that collapse, kind of the opposite actually.

[@ghostbl33d65]

Interesting talking point. I Still don't think Claude's plan for exposing Rhea would have worked but I can see why you would think his way was better. Either way you brought up some pretty decent points to think about which i think is better than just saying "Edelgard is evil cuz of war and such and such!". Hopefully other BE see it that way too rather than taking your viewpoint as stating fact and refuting an opinion.

[@espio329]

I agree, with out edelgard imposing war against the church Claude's plans wouldn't have had an impact in golden deer.

[@aganaom1712]

idealistic. motivated. strong convictions. sufficient resources. good intentions. marred by past traumas/ difficulties of legacy. recognizes a concurrent issue. arrives at the worst conclusion possible and acts on that conclusion in arguably the worst possible way. "griffiths" are VERY dangerous characters.

[@brunnen1]

edelgard will use the crest system to over throw the crest system. shes gonna make foldan great again!

[@sock312]

This video voices all my thoughts very neatly thank you

[@AroundElvesWatchUrselves96]

Fear the deer 🦌

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

I swear to the 🦌, we will end those who slither to the Dark.

[@v.emiltheii-nd.8094]

#EagleisRegal

[@fredv7349]

Best route

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

@@v.emiltheii-nd.8094 #FeartheDeer

[@ZontarDow]

I don't know anything about Fire Emblem but I still can't get enough of these videos

[@fantastic_fantasy_word6675]

Nice Video. About Edelgard's claims for why the church has to go: In the shadow library (accessible with the DLC) it is written that it was the fault of TWSITD that Fodlan split. The Faerghus rebellion was only successful due to Argathan technology given to Loog, Kyphon etc. From the Slithers. The reason that the kingdom was ruled by 3 prince's is a fake will of the last king made by the Slithers. So, sorry Edelgard Fans. She is wrong in those aspects.

[@fantastic_fantasy_word6675]

@@trankofa2282 maybe? But what choice did Rhea have? The kingdom won the original battle of eagle and lion. Military they were far better of. Without Rheas intervention they would have burned most of the empire out and possibly gone to enbar themselves. She was never mentioned to support the alliance? Where did you get that info? I never saw anything even remotely like that. Another factor is that Edelgard truly beliefs her claims. Why make them if that wouldn't be the case? In her eyes they already control Fodlan and are at fault for the crest system. She had enough reasons without those two claims. And the point that it was TWSITD who started the breaking of Fodlan still stands--and with that it is proven that the church is innocent of Fodlans breaking apart. It did some BS but not the kind Edelgard accuses them here. I don't want to start an argument and if you think she's right in some way, them we should agree to disagree, alright? (English is not my first language, sorry)

[@basilofgoodwishes4138]

@@trankofa2282 Divine right is hardly anything worth and Loog was already a King after the battle of the Eagle and Lion. With Rhea, he would be viewed as Legitimate, but he already had the power and had he not been recognized, he would have attacked the Church and force it to make it legitimate, like how often Holy Emperors got rid of Popes they didn't like. She did what she had to and give the victor his Cake, so no, Edelgard is not right at all, the Church did not split up these Countries.

[@Saltyoven]

@@trankofa2282 Rhea had literally nothing to do with Leicester. That one was completely seperate from the church

[@hornedskullasmr7811]

@@Saltyoven heck even in 3 Hopes she acknowledges that Leicester was "illegitamately" formed without the church

[@sheenshinesun]

Amazing lore essay as always! Love it! Big fan of you.

[@KZS99]

Laughs in Blue Lions

[@skysnow2495]

Edelgard's stubborness can really be seen in Golden Deer when she says Claude could never understand the continent because he's an outsider. It shows that she doesn't fully truly believe in the merits of indviduals. Claude is the only one who uncovers the truth yet she can't fathom that he could ever come close.

[@MalzraAirwynn]

I wanted to like Edelgard's route. But she just never really backed up her claims against the church in her own route, and isntead worked with TWSITD, who actually DO the things she's mad at the church about. Torture/experiments, manipulating governments etc. I don't think her route leads to a secret bad ending or anything, and I like the ending thematically id not logically with Byleth becoming human, but the whole thing just doesn't completely come together, especially with them battling TWSITD being relegated to brief mentions in the epilogue instead of getting to see her confront it.

[@datonebri5361]

I always thought that speech of hers at the beginning of part 2 rallying the troops was propaganda, and makes little sense because it matters not

[@magostarmus3705]

Virgin Discount Griffith vs The Chad Arvis.

[@kosmic100]

ah, yes, emperor BBQ himself.

[@adinv9257]

Yummy

[@rafaelzamudio354]

Caspar makes it clear: Edelgard makes everything about herself. For her, she was the only one who suffered. Not Dimitri, not Rhea, not Lysithea, not Hanneman, no one but her. And it was Rhea's fault her suffering, not the Slithers. That's her problem, everything is about herself.

[@infinitedreamer9359]

+1 to this

[@Tea_Noire]

Edie is that fake woke girl who's a communist only for the "edgy" aesthetic and tells her poor/middle-class peers that she relates to them not being able to pay the bills because once she forgot to pay for her yacht license and it got towed. Like maybe her heart is in the right place, but she's just really, really out of touch with the world.

[@genericyoutubeaccount4756]

same can be said about all characters.

[@raviolibirb8009]

Ah.. So edelegard is a narcissistic hitler then

[@raviolibirb8009]

@@genericyoutubeaccount4756 umm.. No? Dimitri's motive is to make everyone have equal rights and erase prejudice against duscur people or foreigners is general, he even put himself on the line to make those dreams come true instead of just sitting on his throne Claude wanted to dismantle the central church and rhea from their dictatorship and also erase prejudice against foreigners so fodlan can have diplomacy with neighboring countries because he knows what it's like being mistreated as someone who was considered an outsider in his own homeland. He also doesn't focused on fodlan alone, he used his royal status as king of almyra to built relationship with fodlan and erase prejudice against people of fodlan in his own country Edelgard, by far, is the only one who thinks for herself and her cause alone. She doesn't think about the consequences of her actions towards civilians. She starts a war without second thought even when she has byleth on her side

[@purpleheron7302]

I think she had good intentions, but she was willing to kill numerous people for what she saw as "the greater good", which is never a good thing, which is why I like Claude and the Golden deer better, but I can see the parallels to Rhea, good video

[@mavenoire3704]

What's that saying? the path paved with good intentions leads to hell.

[@purpleheron7302]

@@mavenoire3704 sometimes i guess

[@armandomendoza7371]

@@mavenoire3704 Fate Kaleid 3rei Manga: At the end of the road of trying to save everyone, there lies a cliff where one loses everything Pretty fitting if you ask me

[@AsbakNL]

i always found it odd how no one ever went after those who slither in the dark and completely root them out :

[@SolracDude]

Something I love is that when I beat Azure Moon after the wave 4 dlc, it says that Hapi just straight up murdered them all with an army of monsters when they inevitably resurfaced. This is why she’s best DLC girl

[@AsbakNL]

@@SolracDude i have yet too beat a route with dlc characters since it came out been working on golden deer route atm

[@Rasdanation]

@@AsbakNL Some routes do root them out, if I am not mistaken

[@manga925]

Rasdanation all of them do. But Edelgard never fought there army in the war so they fight them in a secret second war. In the epilogues. Hapi confirms every route defeats them.

[@sageofanys3476]

All routes involved them being killed off completely, just not on-screen. CF epilogues (and Jeritza S-rank) show the fight with TWSITD, Hapi's epilogue for AM (and her paired ending with Dimitri) show the same. VW and SS see TWSITD nearly wiped out completely during the campaign, but certain epilogues (Hapi's, Claude/Byleth epilogue) show that the remains are picked off after the story ends.

[@MGMVE]

Depending on which path you take, it becomes very easy to root for and against Rhea and Edelgard.

[@aquano1972]

Basically this only happens in CF, the absolute worst route. It changes so much of characters and their actual development/conviction (namely Rhea and even Byleth).

[@jkarma3356]

@@aquano1972 wrong CF is the best route if anything and rhea is still evil no matter what route is taken.

[@maramba32]

That’s basically most of the fanbase. I was that too until I got a cool head and view all of the 4 routes. TWSITD played everyone like fools

[@jkarma3356]

@@maramba32 not really they did not they just worked from the shawdows.

[@malluk3065]

@@aquano1972 Like what?