Ep. 87 - Wolf tones on cello, viola, violin and doublebass

[@jeanasmith4024]

Jonathon hunphries posted an excellent video on how to locate area on cello that is vibrating with sawdust or flour and then how to install a magnetic wolftone eliminator on cello that can be easily relocated or removed. Thank you for helping us.

[@truth7416]

Great information Edgar. You really know your stuff. I was wondering and hoping you could make a video explaining how the Violin generates its frequencies. Let me explain what i am getting at. A speaker makes its sound with three voice coil speakers. A bass woofer, a mid range speaker and a high frequency tweeter. If I showed you a diagram of a Violin top could you circle where the Bass frequencies are generated and its strongest centre point of radiation. Also a circle for the mid range frequency generator area and its strongest centre of radiation. And the High frequency generator area and its strongest centre of radiation. It would be so helpful to me in my understanding in how the Violin works in more depth. I am sure many others would find that interesting as well. Thanks in advance.

[@nicolasrahnama6333]

tank you mastero.🙏🙏🙏

[@ahyungrocks5509]

Most extensive explanation of wolf and how to get rid of them!

[@christiankircher1348]

Thank you for all the videos!!! Special in wolf Ton Things I can't agree totally. As a professional cellist I am not really happy with the damp factor of the wolf eliminator. Lower strings, especial the C is probably more than 5% less (I tested it with two Cellos and nearly the same result). There are Experiences from other violinmakers I met to glue it directly at the bass bar. Works very well and damps less! Positioning is circa in heights of the Fine Tuners or indeed under the fingerboard. But the damping factor is still there and annoying me more than the (strong) wolf so I will working with small little Helpers like Tourte Damp. Or you can press the Cello between your Knees for some seconds, this will kill the wolf too. Thanks again to you, Edgar for the most interesting Channel!

[@dolofson]

Interesting! Will definitely look into these resonators. I used the Krentz Modulator with good results before, but after switching from steel to synthetic core strings (Warchal Amber) as a bit of an experiment, my cello basically became a different instrument (faster, louder, more color, but also a bit more difficult to control), and now, it's difficult to set the Krentz up in a way that deals with the wolf without substantially muting the whole instrument. What strikes me as a bit odd about the Krentz is that there's (AFAIK) only one version (fixed frequency) per instrument (bass, cell, viola, violin), so you can only adjust the position.

Grazie!!

[@ghlscitel6714]

I did not know that such phenomenon exists. My violin does not show it. But from my physics background I can have a picture of it's reason. The beat frequency of your string vibration interfering with a narrow band resonance in the instrument box. So from my naive understanding, the violinmaker needs to avoid narrow band resonances in the vibrating material of the box. Material with internal damping may help. It is something that can drive a high frequency device developer crazy (been there done it) as likewise a violin maker. I remember my sleepless nights finding a trick to get the circuit working. I can imagine that a luthier can go through the same nightmare with supressing wolf tone effects in an instrument.

[@EdgarRuss]

As long you didn't pull up all the four strings you can't tell. But as I explained already: if you know your enemy.....! all the best from Cremona, Edgar

[@ViolinSoundscapes]

Thanks!

[@DrTodd13]

Hi Edgar. Cellist here. I've had a lot of wolf problems with my cello I made myself. I used one of the resonators that you liked for a long time and it reduced the wolf but was still a bit unmanageable at times. I switched to the Krentz modulator and my wolf is now under control. From cello forums, it seems that among people who have tried both resonators and the new-ish Krentz modulator that almost everyone prefers the Krentz. Wondering what your opinion is of the Krentz.

[@EdgarRuss]

Hi, I have not checked it out but as far as I can figure it out it works on the right spot. But I do not like to see this black tap on the topside of the instrument. I think my inside mounted one is definitely more decent and since it eliminates the wolf tone completely and costs even less... all the best Edgar

[@SonicViolins]

Thank you Edgar for a very informative and entertaining video. I have been chasing these tones on violins for many years using many of the techniques you describe, but I have never come across the Guth device - is this mostly for cello or are they also valid and available for violin?

[@skripach69]

I am also interested in this!!😇👍

[@vernonbrown3433]

Have you tried the Wolf Tuner by A. Theunis. It corrects the wolf tone without dimming the tone of the cello like most Wolf Eliminators do. I found that it actually enhanced the tone of the cello and violin as well. It's a beautiful silver piece that fits on the C string of the cello and the G string of a violin. You might be interested in trying this devise.

[@alainhalimi3821]

I Hope that Edgar will newer as I am curious about it. Someone who owns his cello seems to like it

[@alainhalimi3821]

I Hope that Edgar will newer as I am curious about it. Someone who owns his cello seems to like it

[@alainhalimi3821]

I Hope that Edgar will newer as I am curious about it. Someone who owns his cello seems to like it

[@alainhalimi3821]

I Hope that Edgar will newer as I am curious about it. Someone who owns his cello seems to like it

[@alainhalimi3821]

I Hope that Edgar will newer as I am curious about it. Someone who owns his cello seems to like it

[@itarti90]

Hallo Edgar! Very interesting topic. I have a question: When building an instrument, would it be possible to thicken the lid at the point of the vibrations, like the wolfe tone eliminator? Liebe Grüße

[@lincolnosiris3665]

Thomastik suggests to switch to a more focused string with higher tension in order to eliminate a wolf tone. Is that hogwash or actually reasonable?

[@EdgarRuss]

I think I gave a very clear picture of the issue and what happens. So if some one tells you that you should change strings he might be right that something will change but this because something of your setup is changed. But the real reason will stay at this specific instrument. Yes or yes! Edgar

[@lincolnosiris3665]

@@EdgarRuss Yes 😃 But since I play Pirastro and Larsen they are out of luck

[@DivaDeb1234]

Do you have a video on changing violin tail piece.? Is it a risk to change the overall tone of your violin ?

[@markferwerda7968]

I'm a musician but not a string player; what is a wolf tone? It would be good to hear an example.

[@themanamana81]

Thank you! Are the dimensions of the Viola fingerboards different depending on the sise of the viola? Could you please tell me wat lenght you use for the 41 Viola? Somehow i never use the last cm. 😁

[@EdgarRuss]

Viola fingerboard length for a 41cm body length Viola should be 305mm (30,5cm) If your fingerboard is too long get it cut right away and your viola will open up and will finally breath and sound much better. all the best Edgar

[@themanamana81]

@@EdgarRuss Thanks a lot! Ps. I love the part of your video when you ask: " where are all the bad bridges?" 🤣

[@cellist81]

Curious, the shop I work at and do some minor repairs on instruments at has gliga instruments. After watching your video regarding wolf tones (the cello I just lowered the action down on, a gliga gems 2) the finger board is 59 inches. I went and measured all the gliga we have and they’re all long. Is this because they’re made somewhere where they make them long? If I got the fingerboard shortened would it help the wolf tone?

[@michaelblaney4461]

Does the more dynamic the instrument is make the Wolf tone worse? So plywood top maybe no Wolf ,perfectly tap tuned carved top more Wolf?

[@cfrost87]

Plywood doesn't flex in the correct way for the best tone of the instrument.

[@sasha42196]

Would it be possible for the luthier to detect a wolf tone during the violin making process and adjust the top plate thickness, or is it only detectable once the fiddle is fitted and strung?

[@EdgarRuss]

I am so sorry to tell you that it is only detectable once everything is set together. But the good thing is that there are many components where you can change a tiny little bit. But it is a trial and error procedure.

[@joshuam2154]

Why Do I only see Cello Carbonfiber Tailpieces and not for violin?

[@parism555]

There are violin carbon fiber tailpieces. You can search Concarbo violin tailpiece in google or Kenneth Kuo Atonal carbon fiber tailpiece. I have the Concarbo on my French violin. It sounds amazing. And I have the Kenneth Kuo Atonal tailpiece on my French viola. That also sounds amazing. The Atonal tailpiece is 5 times more pricier though- but I make my money/living playing viola so.... it’s an investment.

[@joshuam2154]

@@parism555 how did it change the tone of your instrument and what do you think about the differences between the brands

[@parism555]

Joshua m good question. I have noticed that both made the instrument resonate better, the sound is quite open, response is better and more focused. I really appreciate them both. The difference is one is commercially made (ConCarbo) and the other is handmade (Kenneth Kuo). For my viola, I desired 4 fine tuners (which he accommodated me making them of light titanium). This allows me to tune quickly and accurately quickly. As stated before I am mostly a violist for my $-- so I don’t mind investing more there. Honestly, if you don’t mind one fine tuner- go for the ConCarbo (if you are a violinist or violist). But know that there is a very tricky setup to it. A luthier broke the piece once and I had to wait like three weeks for a new piece. So... pay another $7-8$ and order an additional fine tuning bit.

[@parism555]

Joshua m but if you are looking for personal service, go with the Kenneth Kuo tailpiece. He not only put on the tailpiece but also did a sound adjustment. I have a very small French viola by Pique (nearly a full size violin size-- 14 3/4 inches). He made it sound larger, darker, and more resonate. I really enjoy it.

[@EdgarRuss]

@@parism555 Interesting, Thank you for your comment here. But I would like to underline for all those who read your comment, that it is not the carbon fiber tailpiece which makes a lousy sounding instrument a great sounding one. It changes! For sure! all the best from Cremona, Edgar

[@billsutherland9193]

I put a tennis ball under tailpiece on my double bass.

[@EdgarRuss]

Great Idea! Guess it looks funny but I am convinced it works.

[@Hiwa1958]

سپاس ....هه لو kurdstan

[@EdgarRuss]

👋🏼

[@Hiwa1958]

@@EdgarRuss زور سباس بو به ریزت

[@mdsoulsounds]

Realize you are very skilled, but sometimes your English can be a bit wordy( verbose!). I realize you are filtering thru other languages, you may be German and also speak Italian. But you make a lot of sense when it comes thru...thanks

[@serafin1719]

I understand everything perfectly fine :)