Alternate Method for turning OD to Hole

[@geckoproductions4128]

Greetings from Texas Peter. I'm a gunsmith and occasional machinists. Even though I will likely never use a CNC machine I found your video very interesting and the concepts of your set up directly transferable to what I do. Thanks much.

[@billdlv]

I never thought I would see a lathe dog being used on a CNC machine. Good information again Peter. More video on this job would be great.

[@ypaulbrown]

I never thought I would either ....cheers. Paul

[@mrblack61]

I really appreciate the underlying thinking that you convey in all your videos, much more useful than a straight instructional 'do it this way' deal. All without an ego too. All the best.

[@EdgePrecision]

Thanks Fred Bear.

[@lifuranph.d.9440]

I think Peter is the kind of man that when you first meet him, it seems like you have known him for a lifetime. Peter is a genuinely good man...a giver, not a taker. IMHO

[@lorenlieder9789]

There ya go Peter that is just like a lot gun smiths have been doing gun barrels for about 200 years and it works rather well. Great video's keep up the good work, they are very enjoyable to watch.

[@joea7185]

Oh man. I wish i could have a shop with a bunch of heavy machines, let alone a "Bigger Shop" full of heavy machines to mess around in. You paid your dues man. Keep on truckin.

[@egdjr1]

It easy to see why you get great comments Peter. You make videos that are easy to understand, even for someone like me with little cnc knowledge. You have great content that I really enjoy watching. Like your fixture video and seeing some of the things you have made and your thoughts that go into them is truly impressive. So again thank you for sharing.

[@paddyboy1959]

I worked oilfield for 10 years and turned long small diameter parts exactly the way your doing it. Love those Mazaks.

[@dmbworks8094]

recently got my 1st turret lathe with a tailstock, glad you still have these up

[@rupert5390]

Peter these videos are really highly informative - it is machining in real life these days, i.e. contemporary machining - it's very inspiring and at the same time a bit intimidating - as a self taught modern machinist you are doingt he rest of us a great service, many thanks.

[@garym1550]

When I watched your other video I thought, " why aren't you turning between centres and with a follower rest?" Then I remembered that a lot of people only know CNC and don't have the practical background that my generation has had. Many of us still use old tech along side of the new tech. Best tool or method for the job! It is sad when the wisdom of the past is forgotten or not taught and has to constantly be relearned. Good to see you found your way to a better solution.

[@EdgePrecision]

If I could have used a follow rest I would have. But these machines have no way to mount one.

[@billrichardson4873]

I do believe you are a very skilled machinist. For sure learn a lot from you, so thank you for your time you share with us......

[@tansit2344]

I do enjoy seeing other machinists problem solve, also not being a lathe guy most of the time this is helpful info.

[@anasalamri8320]

I don't do machining but I enjoyed every second of this video. Thank you.

[@artmckay6704]

thank you for this! It totally makes sense! As obvious as it ends up being, a lot of us may have had to make a lot of mistakes before we figured out this method. Thanks again! :)

[@dlstanf2]

Real machining work is great. Much different than Job Shop. Keep it up. Even though I'm retired now, I like the CNC process.

[@Factory400]

I sure love the Tool(x) and Tool(z) jog mode on that control. Makes setup jobs like this a breeze - AWESOME.

[@AlexSilva-tm7iu]

Thanks for your videos. I have so much to learn with you.

[@MastGunWorks]

Hey thanks for the video. I’ve had to do something similar to this when I’m working on rifle barrels with larger bores. I typical run them through my head stock with a 4 jaw and an outboard spider. I then use a precision fit rod in the bore at different depths to measure for run out. If I can’t do it that way I get out the face plate, turn some journals and then switch to the 5C chuck.

[@mosinshaikh9242]

I have already using this method on cnc turning it works but depends upon material and length of the material some time it's get nice through turning but sometimes it's runout after turning good video thanks 👍

[@yea7115]

oh my god the best channel I have seen about mill turn

[@Tools4Machines]

Thanks for the excellent video and description of your methods, Peter. -- Cheers, Gary

[@pcbondart]

Could you turn a place in the center to run the steady rest by turning very slowly and MILLING a band, in the center with a small diameter cutter, that would have low pressure on part?

[@EdgePrecision]

Generally speaking it is better to turn a band for the steady rest than to mill it. It would leave a better finish and cause less potential vibration to do so. If the tip radius of the insert is small. Say .015" or less.

[@pcbondart]

@@EdgePrecision OK, I do a lot of milling on a small lathe, all traditional, and I find it puts way less pressure on the part than turning with a lathe tool. Also, my work is a lot smaller, but if I were to try my technique on what you are doing, I would use no bigger than 1/4 inch brand new cutter removing just a few thou at a pass . . . for instance, I have milled acme threads on a part that was long/thin, several passes, came out great, I was running 3/64 cutter fairly fast, on O-1. But thank you for great videos!

[@EdgePrecision]

Thanks! I’m glad that worked for you. O-1 is somewhat different than inconel. If I was to try this. I would use a bull mill with a small tip radius and tip the B axis at say a 45 degree angle. Than mill with the tip radius of the endmill. That might work.

[@pcbondart]

@@EdgePrecision slow traverse, .015/.025 per revolution . . .

[@marknouj]

Hi Peter, Great video!! I turn shafts on my Haas CNC lathe the same way but have never put a 60deg included chamfer on the ID edge. Do you find this helps with concentricity? I usually end up with concentricity at either end below 002".

[@EdgePrecision]

It probably isn't 100% necessary. I just want something more than a sharp edge for this large tail center to land on. The tailstock pressure can be turned down but this large machine still puts out a lot of force.

[@ypaulbrown]

Thank you Peter....Paul in Orlando, Florida

[@jeeprenegade1985]

I'm not sure if it would chatter with a positive rake, small radius insert just to skim a spot true in the middle for the steady rest to support the workpiece. Maybe even try a threading insert. Slowing the feed rate to get a decent finish would probably cause chatter again.

[@potlimit2002]

Does that CNC Lathe have a Follower rest? If you had a follower rest it might be possible to turn the whole part. You could leave the part a little longer and drill a drive PIN or drive Screw hole on faces instead of using a Lathe Dog. I turn long natural gas well drill drivers on my 1942 Lodge & Shipley X model Lathe between center and I have to use a follower rest and Steady rest. On a different subject ; is it possible to Thread Mill on a 2 Axis CNC Mill? I have a ProtoTrak CNC Mill. I have worked 25 years as a manual Machinist an I know nothing about thread milling.

[@EdgePrecision]

No this machine doesn't have a follow rest. As far as thread milling goes. In order to machine a thread you have to follow a helical path witch requires a simultaneous three axis movement. So no you cant do it on a two axis CNC mill.

[@RRINTHESHOP]

Great method, nice to be able to use milling to true the chamfer on the hole.

[@Meeky815]

Should you be Tramming if it’s between centers

[@EdgePrecision]

If you are referring to adjusting the tail center for a straight turn. This wont affect the concentrically of the work. It will still run true to the centers.

[@masonkubecka9163]

Thanks. I would love to see you turn the full OD. I don't run lathes just mills but I really want to learn.

[@jdaz5462]

Very helpful video. There are lots of parts where this applies.

[@CeErCeEr]

Thank you Peter, best regards...

[@chrispoirier384]

Would it be possible to make the steady rest run like a follow rest. So make the follow rest chase the tool on the cut diameter? Old school.

[@EdgePrecision]

There is no way to mount one on a machine like this. Some machines do have the ability to mount two steady rests next to each other. Than they close the one behind and open the one in front of the tool as the tool turns by.

[@mike-lu8di]

Hi Peter, I enjoy your videos as you present them as running commentary and you give the reasons for and against why you are doing it that way...for me that can spark an idea or a work around to a problem often unrelated....for me it's about filling my head with others experience....thank you....on another note....how about the 4 jaw competition at the Bar Zed bash ?....once again Peter good stuff.

[@BillyTpower]

Great video Peter, Do you or can get footage of the gun drilling process? I heard u say that u farmed it out but maybe u might have a clip. I've never seen a drill process of that length before.

[@jimsanker989]

Im wondering about the hole too

[@nraynaud]

that's very cool. I have a naive question: can you use the steady rest as a following rest my moving it section by section from the tail stock towards the chuck? turn a section, move the steady over the newly turned section, turn a new section, etc.

[@EdgePrecision]

Thanks. It can’t be moved at the same time a turning. There are safety interlocks that prevent this. It could be positioned than turn than be repositioned and so on. The part shown in this video is short and because of the way covers there is not much room for movement.

[@sebastianschwobel5688]

Really interesting videos. Please also show the rest of the job!

[@billcorrigan8456]

That is sweet for cutting angles, how much milling can you do with that head. I've never seen a milling lathe like this

[@EdgePrecision]

This machine can do full 5 axis milling as well as turning. It’s what they call a multi task machine. Or also a mill turn machine.

[@jonathanw6635]

Hi jst found your channel & love the content. I also work in oil&gas and do similar stuff daily, if I may put in my 2cent once you've turned a grip on both ends soft jaws tooled out with a .500 grip using the tail is a good way to go , this wud help with the vibration. With the short grip this pulls both ends true 2 the ID . With the material being inc between centres is difficult , cud save you a few ops . And if there is plenty of material in the OD you cud bring the tool radius dwn to .032 and take a minimum skim also helps with the vibration obviously keep an eye on your insert tho with the harder material . All the best .

[@EdgePrecision]

Thanks for you comment, I am glad you find the content useful.

[@andrewmicas4327]

Tough material to turn, we used to do long shafting and cut a Left Hand Buttress type Thread to Centre line then Right Hand Buttress Thread on opposite end from Centre line. Approximately 6 foot (1800mm long). They were done between centres but with a following steady. Used for straightening cloth prior to Shearing. My first thought was to do between centres,I like way you can mill larger true centre hole.

[@chrisstephens6673]

I think even experienced machinists like to see how others solve problems, after all no one machinist can think of everything him(her?)self, so keep 'em coming. To show my ignorance, I thought lathe drive dogs would be something a modern machinist would have zero knowledge of. Do they have a G code number? :>)

[@EdgePrecision]

I think your right about the drive dog thing. But you see I grew up old school on manual equipment. So many new machinists limit their way of thinking, you need to embrace where you came from.

[@skirifles2076]

Thanks again for the great vid Peter. I know it would be a long one, but a video of you programming that part would be awesome. .....SKI

[@joedell71]

Hi Peter. Great video. I really like the way you come up with solutions. Question? After all the years you have been doing this kind of work do you still enjoy it? I know it definitely challenges you to come up with some interesting solutions but do you like making parts or is work more of a necessity and a chore at this point?

[@EdgePrecision]

Not a chore I still like my work.

[@joedell71]

Edge Precision I kind of had a feeling you did. 😊

[@chrisneale7453]

I've always had the theory that putting a lot of pressure on the tailstock centre when turning between centres is worse for chatter than gentle pressure, some of my colleagues put lots on but it think that will cause it to chatter more. This is when manual machining. I was wondering what you think?

[@EdgePrecision]

Yes to much pressure can lead to chatter. But I think the part would have to be long and small in diameter.

[@chrisneale7453]

@@EdgePrecision something for me to try when chatter arises for no apparent reason

[@wings808]

Just a thought, maybe you can name the videos in a more organized way so I can follow the machining process a little better? Like in series or inconel odd turning 1,2,3.... not sure if this is what you prefer to do, don't wanna sound to needed here. Thanks

[@EdgePrecision]

If I put them organize them into playlists would that be good?

[@wings808]

That'd be great! Thanks for replying!

[@danski3298]

How do you get your tool to the center line of the chuck. Is there a # you have to jog the machine every time?

[@EdgePrecision]

When you are jogging in the manual mode you can look at the display and jog a turning tool to Y zero. You should be on CL if the tool is centered with the spindle. Some, what they call flex tools are not on centerline (these kind of tools have more than one tip. they can be indexed in the milling spindle at the appropriate angle. You may also have to tip the B axis at a special angle.) you would than have to know how far off center to take the tool. In the CNC mode this is usually taken in to account by the offsets of the tool.

[@CHUCK20O9]

u should invest into a ultrasonic wall thickness gage, so u can chuck in the middle after your true bands on the end u made. 😉

[@localele1]

Your machinery is on the large side Peter but I think most of this theory holds true for smaller parts on smaller lathes as well.The basics are the best.

[@savagemachines]

When are you having a open house? I would drive or fly to that for sure. Someone making videos with obvious long time knowledge. This is what I want to watch.

[@EdgePrecision]

jon savage Wow! What a compliment (not sure I deserve it). I'm kind of new to this multi media thing still learning how it works. As to a open house don't have any plans at the moment. Still trying to grow this channel. I only have about 1500 subs. Nothing compared to others. I still have a lot to learn. Isn't that what life is about. If you stop learning you might as well be dead.

[@savagemachines]

I run a vf3 and st20, it is just awesome to see the larger machines in a non advertisement based movie. They love to show perfect conditions and setups in them. It is nice to see someone working on highly complex stuff and overcoming difficult conditions. Lots of pound the block into the vice machining. What are those rods 12xDia? 14xDia?

[@EdgePrecision]

No these parts are small 1.75 finished diameter by about 40" long. They are Inconel 750X material. Later in the machining of these I need the 5 axis capability of this machine. I have machined parts of the size you mentioned though. The machine is capable of turning 32" in diameter X 120" long between centers.

[@davidlawrence8085]

@@EdgePrecision I like that .... " If you stop learning you might as well be dead. " Thanks !

[@glendenton3193]

You should invest in the royal collet system it make these setups a lot faster when using bar stock you been done just by changing the chuck and boom put royal collet in and they make them for a sub spindle just say a lot quicker then the way your doing it

[@EdgePrecision]

There is no real way to mount such a collet system. And it would introduce clearance issues with the mill spindle and the machines cabinet at the headstock end. The chuck needs to extend a ways out to provide clearance for the spindle B axis at 90 degrees. Also the kind of work I do, the time chucking on the the part is very low compared to the setup and machining time. It wouldn't make enough of a difference to be worthwhile. I very seldom do work this small in diameter on this machine.

[@davestrong6472]

Just wondering what the part is for. Dave

[@EdgePrecision]

Dave Strong , I'm not 100% sure. I do know it's a part to a assembly of five pieces that get electron beam welded together. The assembly is a down hole instrument for Baker Hughes. Yesterday I saw some in the shop that were previously being straightened. If there are still there tomorrow I'll take some photos.

[@Thewaldo12345]

How does one get enough work to support an $800,000 Mill/Turn? We can barely get enough work to support to sub $100K CNCs.

[@EdgePrecision]

This is a difficult question to answer. In the beginning when I started. I, like you couldn't have afforded such an expensive piece of equipment. It takes time and doing a lot of work to get there, or here where I am. You will make it if you want to and keep trying. I know it seems like a imposable goal but believe me it can be done if you set your mind to achieving it and work hard.

[@gregorteply9034]

You can use chamfering tool with a guide to make that 60° cone.

[@EdgePrecision]

To be absolutely sure that the center cone runs true to the hole it is better to mill it. The way I show in thee video. I not exactly sure what you are referring to with guide? Do you mean a pilot to run in the hole. If so that could be a possible way but I didn't have the tool.

[@gregorteply9034]

@@EdgePrecision Yes, I meant chamfering cutter with a pilot wiht same diameter like the hole. Just throwing out ideas.

[@drubradley8821]

Well, I have learn a few things since watching your videos, Thank you. I do have a question, I heard you say that you have the "gun drilled holed" parts drilled by somebody else / another shop. Although, this process of gun drilling starts out with the hole being very close to being on center, and by the time it pokes out the other end, the hole is straight but ends up off center, likely due to the outer diameter surface imperfections or is the hole curving in a slight arc.... Meaning that, if you were to slide a hard and perfectly round and straight pin into the hole, that with in a certain distance, the pin would not want to slide in, as if it was being forced or wedge against one side of the hole more then its opposite side? I hope that makes sense?. I try to find info on gun drilling and the processes (tips & tricks) so to speak upon the subject, I do intend to hunt for gunsmithing books, not for the idea of gun smithing, as that is a whole can of worms that is way out of my price range, lol, as I am just a hobbiest, and sure, I see and read the basic concept, but, much of the process is closely guarded secrets, including the drills and the related geometry (I suppose it is safe to call that nomenclature for gun drills as well?) I am only asking about the straightness but still pokes out off center as if they were drilling the hole on my machine which has some wear and misalignment, as if the holes are basically being started out "off" or if it is just part of the nature of drilling a hole that deep, that some curvature is to be expected. just like one expects twist drills pending the depth of plunge. I have always been under the impression that gun drilling creates a very sraight hole, also resulting in a pretty good finish too, even in the cases of deep drilling in hard materials. I am sorry for my novel and the abstract question. Nice job on the videos, by the way. I look forward to more. Drew

[@EdgePrecision]

Dru Bradley In the case of these parts the drill shop typically just rotates only the drill. In the case of gun drilling a gun barrel bore they usually rotate the drill and the part to drill a straighter hole. The typical tolerance for a gun drilled hole just rotating the drill is .002 per foot of straightness. But they might not have the part perfect to the axis of the drill. You are correct if you had a pin that was perfectly straight it might bind in the hole. The idea is if you get both ends concentric in the middle you will have minimal runout.

[@drubradley8821]

Okay, I don't feel like a complete dummy, I would say that ( .002" )per foot, is extremely good. So, that approx means, in 1 mile, (5280 feet) the hole could drift off about 10.500" off cener.... Now, it there such a thing, that the gun drill may start to vere in one direction, and then start to vere back the other direction? I know I am sounding pathetic here, I ask based on the idea that once it starts to vere off course, there is no way to correct its trajectory, the deeper in it is? I have spent the past hour looking into the base info, and still, very limited, LOL. Likely for a good reason, more over just trade craft secrets. I suppose I am over thinking things. It is just neat to see those chunks drilled like that vs D.O.M./ seamless bar stock. Thank you

[@EdgePrecision]

Dru Bradley When I owned the larger shop we made a part called a core gun. This part had two parallel holes .375 in diameter that were 93" deep. They had a tolerance of .014 true location. The company that drilled the holes for us is in Maine. It's called Dearborn Manufacturing. They were so secretive about there process they would not let anyone see the machine or go into the room unless the machine was covered with tarps. They used ultra sonic probes to track the corse of the drill. The orientation of the part the grind of the tip and the application of heat to the part can steer the drill. Also any change in hardness can cause the drill to wander. We once made so thermal shells out of titanium that were heat treated the parts would warp when heat treated. So we heat treated first than gun drilled. The gun drill would still follow the centerline of the stock because the metal was softer in the center of the bar. This is all a some what black art. There are shop that specialize in doing deep hole drilling. In the oilfield you often can't buy material in the size or type you need so you have to have it drilled. They can drill the whole bar as long as 40' if necessary. Look up ejector drilling and treepaning these are two other methods of deep hole drilling.

[@drubradley8821]

See what I mean, that is some amazing stuff. 40 feet, WOW!!!! So, that machine that can do that is likely every bit of 100ft long, iff not longer then that!!! There is no need to reply to this small comment, I am just saying. WOW. Thank you Boss. I will look into these to see what I can learn.

[@amareshsethi1211]

Nice machine facility

[@natebrown5588]

if the gun driller has perfectly round piece of stock to start with it could help

[@olivierc1310]

The part where you make the 60° edge on the hole. Is that manual or a small program you've made?

[@EdgePrecision]

I am just manually jogging the machine. It would of course be possible to make a program to do the same thing. If I was running more parts that's what I would do.

[@olivierc1310]

So when your mill is on the right spot, you just jog your C-axis with the manual jog? Because on my Mazak it's pretty slow... takes me forever to make 1 rev.

[@EdgePrecision]

Olivier C yes bring the tool to Y zero with your B axis at 30. Than jog the tool up into the hole and jog the C axis with the hand wheel. If you put the jog selection on the 100 setting your machine jogs the C slow?

[@olivierc1310]

Edge Precision yea. even then its realy slow. maybe because we have a shunk of 530mm

[@zmajmr]

nice video

[@bahadruzun576]

What is the machine ?

[@EdgePrecision]

This machine is a Mazak Integrex e650H.

[@bahadruzun576]

Edge Precision perfect machine

[@natebrown5588]

maybe centerless grind the stock before gun drill

[@EdgePrecision]

The problem is to get the drilled hole on centerline. The idea is to not depend on the gun driller to get it centered ( this never happens). So what we do is to turn the OD concentric to the drilled hole.

[@natebrown5588]

@@EdgePrecision I totally get it we are lucky to get a .001"-.0015" / ft straightness.

[@johnnywayne7654]

Maybe I'm confused, lol. So, because the way the head is oriented with the turning style tools, is it cutting in 'X' when you're turning towards the chuck, instead of the typical 'Z' movement?

[@EdgePrecision]

When turning the X is up and down and the Z is toward the spindle just like a normal CNC lathe. The angle of the B axis doesn’t change that while turning. While milling you rotate the coordinate system the same as the B axis. So the Z axis is parallel to the milling spindle. When B is at zero or parallel to the turning spindle than the X axis is the same as when turning. Up and down. When the B axis is at 90 deg. When milling or drilling on the OD. The X + direction is toward the chuck in the turning spindle and the Z is up and down. In all conditions the Y + is toward the front of the machine and the Y - toward the back. Hope that makes sense. Take a look at my video on machine coordinate systems. I explained this in more detail.

[@johnnywayne7654]

Edge Precision, I'll check it out, but yes sir, it makes perfect sense. I was thrown off by the direction of feed when you were using the 'tX' and 'tZ' switches in jog mode. I could see why it was going the direction it was going in because of the orientation, but it seemed opposite of every other thing I've ever known to be true. Thanks for the reply Peter! Mazak is the only controller I've never used, but I've heard they're more user friendly than most.

[@natebrown5588]

centerless grind oversize

[@andermorillo2092]

MAZAK MACHINE!!!

[@michaelspeakman8924]

Why don't you use to open in Jaws. sliding it down the shaft. On both ends it will act like a sinner rest

[@EdgePrecision]

If you a talking about this steady rest. It can’t be moved while the machine is cutting.

[@rrtornoesoldanascimentomat4969]

Muito top 👏👏👏👏

[@jimsanker989]

I would like to see the hole being drilled in. I cant believe .080 dia 39 inches deep

[@EdgePrecision]

I didn't drill this hole. Also it was .180" diameter thru. Not .080" diameter. A specialty gun drilling shop drilled the blanks.

[@jimsanker989]

@@EdgePrecision Thank you very much. I enjoy watching very much

[@christophercolumbus8944]

i would've machined it on a manual lathe

[@EdgePrecision]

I don't have a manual lathe. This is just preparing the material. This part was very complicated from this point on. Milling mostly.