5 Rules For Commander Deckbuilding

[@Level_1_Frog]

A rule I always like to follow when building a commander deck, regardless of budget, is 'if the deck includes an infinite/game-winning combo in it, the combo MUST include the commander of the deck.' That way if I do decide to include some fun loops they all feel very deck specific and can't just be jammed anywhere.

[@Level_1_Frog]

And as two additions to that: if during play I figure out a different game winning combo with different cards in the deck that I didn't notice before, I'll either not use it and/or remove or change some of those pieces around so I don't in the future; and also I would ignore this rule in CEDH for obvious reasons.

[@underscore_5450]

Yeah, it's way too easy to want to jam Forsaken Monument and Basalt Monolith into every deck with some X cost spells.

[@Level_1_Frog]

@@underscore_5450 yeah stuff like that. I have a deck with a Basalt Monolith combo in it but it's entirely reliant on the commander Sydri, Galvanic Genius turning it into a creature so it can untap itself with Voltaic Construct's ability.

[@borneof3954]

That's an interesting rule. But wouldn't it be too easy/consistent to go infinite if you only need one card from the 99 (1/99) and a card you always have access to, than if you played a niche infinite combo that needs two or more pieces from the 99 (1/99*1/98...)

[@Level_1_Frog]

@@borneof3954 ummm, yeah I dunno, maybe it would be in some instances; like if I were to ever make a Veto of the Dusk Rose deck all I'd have to do is find Exquisite Blood and then win the game with any number of ways to deal any amount of damage, that is true. And if that was something I REALLY wanted to do (for whatever reason I dunno) then yeah, I would just build a really boring deck with a bunch of tutors and have a super linear deck that wins with 2 cards. But I really don't find those types of decks fun so I probably wouldn't build it in the first place, and if I did have a combo like that I would have to make the deck more interesting in other ways. Like for example I have a $100 budget deck with Kraum Ludevic's Opus, Kodama of the East Tree, and Keruga the Macrosage as 3 commanders/with companion, and that deck has Field of the Dead and some bounce lands in it so I can combo off and get infinite zombies, but I don't have anything under 3 CMC in it cuz of Keruga, and it doesn't have any tutors for the pieces in it either, and it's 100 dollars, so I feel like it's a fun way to close out the game if it gets too long but it's not my primary win condition

[@Capybara1997-o1l]

Here are my 5 rules: 1. Build to the deck you want, not the deck that's "meta". Yes, maybe Energy Counters aren't as powerful as some other decks, but I think it's a fun concept and honestly it *does* work. 2. Don't be afraid to start over. Maybe you didn't realize you'd need more mana, or maybe you locked yourself into too tight of deckbuilding like I did with my WUBRG elementals deck (Horde of Notions as the commander, but Jegantha as Companion). 3. Mono-color isn't scary. This is one that I want to slap into people's brains. Everyone seems to think that mono colored decks are bad or scary. The thing is? you just haven't been building them right. You need the right Commander. Not every mono colored legendary is going to work. Look at what your color does well, and find something that does that well. 4. 35 lands minimum. Unless the deck requires less (I've managed, through careful testing, to get Goblins down to 30) you want 35 lands at a minimum. This gives you an approximate 1 land per 3 cards drawn on average. 5. Don't be afraid to experiment. Yes a mono-green spirit deck headed by Iname, Life Aspect isn't popular. Maybe that's because people overlook her. Prove them wrong!

[@roobistv]

Energy counters were banned in modern at one point so let's abuse them as EDH players.

[@er00ic]

The thing with your land counts is that if you look at the odds of drawing a land you're on par with what an aggro deck runs in other formats. That's really light when combo and midrange decks dominate commander. And if you have enough card draw to hit the lands, you have enough card draw that you're not going to be in a situation where you're getting screwed by topdecking a land. Instead, hitting every land drop means you can us that card advantage to double spell or even triple spell.

[@paulszki]

Absolutely. In the end it does also depend on your commander, how much they costs and how important they are to your gameplan. Casting your commander a second time, a third time is.... well... card advantage. Your 8th land isn't really a "dead draw" if it means you can recast your commander one more time. Also, by now there are so many lands that do other things besides tap for mana, that you can comfortably play even 40 lands and not need to fear getting mana flooded without things to do: A card like Kessig Wolf Run can turn any dork (or your commander) into a threat and force difficult decisions on your opponent even if you don't end up using it (e.g. just the THREAT of pumping your attacker can dissuade your opponent from blocking) and now you get to push through a bunch of bigger creatures with a cheeky 1/1 or whatever. In stalled out situation and/or in topdeck mode, I won't be unhappy about Kessig Wolf Run even as it's the 10th land I draw because it means I can give an attacker (doesn't even have to be my own.) +7/+0 and trample. And if it's my fourth land drop I'm also glad to have drawn it instead of whatever thing that I could have put into my deck that isn't a land. And there are many utility lands like the above example that are just excellent at fulfilling the double role of "being a land" and "doing something very relevant".

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

My solution is not to remove lands, but to add scaleable cards. Kickers, cards with X in the cost, cards with expensive secondary abilities. But then again, it is a matter of deck style as you say. This dragon deck has a lot of ramp, and most cards have above average costs. Being able to play a Shivan Devastator as a 10/10 is just a nice bonus. And as has been mentioned, the issue is if the land gets in the way of your tempo. As long as you can keep doing things, the land draws aren't really a major issue.

[@natelagrassa9337]

I have had pretty good luck with the “mana fix” app. It breaks everything down even for limited constructed or commander

[@nicholasvandonkersgoed3758]

Exactly! I looked at the land percentages of the Rakdos Midrange decks in standard, and decided to up my land count to 36 plus 4 mdfc lands/landcyclers. I'm particularly high on the LOTR 1 mana landcyclers, since in their land form they're not that much worse than entering the battlefield tapped, and the cards themselves are all expensive haymakers.

[@merlintym1928]

33 lands + 10 card draw spells + 10 ramps spells = hitting your sixth mana by turn 6 about half the time. It's not, like, *that* bad.

[@charliemarlow647]

You're right, I think you're crazy having 33/34 lands as your standard! My sweet spot has been 37, as I've found that lets me hit lands every turn of the game. I suppose it depends how you build decks, but generally speaking a deck is going to be able to utilise having more mana, so having that accessible is important. Gives you much more staying power and influence in the late game where you have 10 mana on turn 10 as opposed to 7.

[@chrisbenson6753]

I find Demo has pretty low to the ground curves and takes advantage of durdling by avoiding being targeted.

[@stropes.]

For a 4 CMC commander I usually run 35 lands and then ten 1-2 CMC ramp spells (even in nongreen decks). There are enough rocks printed now that it's not hard to hit that number anymore with whatever deck you're building. That being said - it really depends on when you want to be casting your commander and how low your curve is... With the format speeding up in the last few years I'm playing a lot more 2-4 CMC cards than I did back in 2011 so I don't need to be getting quite so many lands - but this would be very meta dependent, I guess.

[@PoorlyHandled]

I do 30-36 depending on where my curve tops out, and whether green is a primary. Most games I play are over on turn 6 or 7 so I am not worried about having a land drop on turn 10. If my deck has high costs I include more ramp, not more lands.

[@calebthumme3717]

Wait, you guys run lands?

[@JamesDM4]

It always depend, my simic Aesi deck has 36 land + mdfc. My mono green Gargos hydra has only 30 land + mdfc, the mana dork does the job and with that -4 to hydra spell. More then 30 land and I always only draw lands.

[@JaimeAGB-pt4xl]

Comments per rule: 1- Play whatever commander U want to play, but be warned that Some are more hated than others and draw attention as such... 2- I put 3 pieces of non-creature removal, 3 of creature removal, and 2-3 boardwipes. I know I need to put in more 3- At least 1 graveyard hate per deck (bojuka bog is auto-include in every black deck for example) 4- Land count is more tricky. It depends on the mana curve, but I play 33-36 lands. Usually if I play 36 its because the deck doesn't include green. The best ramp is mana tutoring (agree No more than sol ring and arcane in green) which is green, followed by Cost reduction (more cumulative), and then the rocks. But I do put 9-11 ramp cards in every deck. 5- the versatility depends on the commander a lot of the time, BUT if Ur commander could have more than 1 strategy, try to use either unorthodox strats, or focus Heavily on a strong strategy to prevent the opponents from stopping U Awesome content as always, thank you for the great videos 👍🏻

[@coachryanrbpt4594]

Just wanted to leave a comment to say thank you so much for the amazing content that you’ve put out. I found your channel about a month ago and I cannot stop watching every single thing that you put out is informative and it helped me upgrade my existing decks and thinkcompletely differently about how I brew them. I’ve also saved a ton of magic cards because of all the old obscure cards that you highlight in your videos, keep up the good work.

[@adrianlankford5765]

I tend to be the primary target because of the commanders I play but its actually made me a much better deck builder. It forced me to build my decks to be more resilient so that I can play thru being the primary target

[@matthewfennell8283]

Same, my first real commander was korvold 💀

[@josephtucker8456]

Alternatively, if you know you absolutely need your commander out to function properly, make sure you pack enough spells to protect the commander or bring it back without commander tax.

[@cronchable]

So, two things. For one, I do also play very few lands in some of my decks, but that's because those decks are built to work on low land bases, either through super low curves or a lot of card draw/cantrips. I do actually think it's very important to make your land drops every turn for as long as you can in your average deck. So I do think in general if you're playing sub 35 lands, you wanna have your deck be built for it, in my case mostly by having enough card selection that you still hit your drops. If there's one thing I've learned in commander over the years it's that hitting your land drops is one of the best things to do to win mid to long games. Also, adding to that, I never cut lands for ramp. Hitting land drops and ramping are two different things. If I topdeck a Rampant Growth for turn without having a land in hand, that's two wasted mana. And secondly, I kind of understand your patron's attitude of leaning into your colour's strengths. Yes, versatility is nice, but you will always have weak spots unless you're playing like 5c, and at a certain points you just have to pick your battles. And some decks do that by being hyperefficient with their removal, which Feed the Swarm isn't really. Not saying it's a bad card, just saying that I can see why it wouldn't be an autoinclude, depending on your deck.

[@jamesplayspokemon]

I'm fairly intermediate in terms of mtg and this video really helped me build my first deck while it is a miirym deck lots of my friends play high power and it's really nice to be able to compete and play non precons thanks for the help❤

[@brianpenner9286]

36-37 lands is definitely the sweet spot which I run in most of my decks. I find I usually have a good hand from the 1st draw (no mulligan) compared to my counterparts! Even my extremely tuned tier 1 decks still have a minimum of 35 lands. 40-41 for a lands matter style deck!

[@FlowBerni]

The least i run is 34 lands in my fastest deck with a lot of really good cardraw. Usually its 35 -36 lands with a normal amount of 10 card draw, 10 ramp, and a average cmc around 3,4. The most is 37 in a deck where i really want to get to 7 mana. If i had a Landfall deck it would have around 38 or 39 lands in there.

[@draketheduelist]

If I have really good card draw, I don't use less lands, but I increase the curve height. Maybe indulge in some mana abilities to make use of any mana you can't spend (as my Naya go-wide tends to have problems drawing). The fewer lands I run, the more I have to mulligan.

[@NightOfCrystals]

Resonating with this. I have a landfall deck with 50 lands, and know that CEDH decks often run 27-29 lands. It’s so mana curve dependent. I think 36-37 lands is pretty much perfect most of the time, some decks want 35, some want 38-40, but I really like 36-37.

[@Morrodin182]

I fully agree with 36ish lands ... it slightly depends of course. I have one deck with only 30, but that deck is built for it. The average casting cost in that deck is about 1,3 or so :P (Jhoira storm deck, only reason it goes above 1 mana on average is some of the win cons) All other decks though have 36. Well, with one more outlier which has 42 or so lands but that is a landfall deck (Red/Green Omnath)

[@sylvaintellier4787]

One aspect of the deck to factor in when determining the mana curve is deck interaction, ie. A blue deck with a low curve still needs untapped mana to be efficient. Also, interaction of the Commander with activated abilities, Yuriko, Kenrith, Breya, Najeela, etc...

[@darksiders18]

well when Im playing a +1 +1 counter deck, I become the target after turn 3.

[@zoobnash]

One thing I always try to keep in mind when building my commander decks is that the power level of the deck I'm building doesn't really matter. For example, I never run mother of runes unless I have specific reasons to because that card's annoying and I don't need to have the power level boost that it gives me. I usually only run Sol Ring in decks with more of a focus on mana rocks like my Kozilek deck, only mainly run hatebears in decks that are meant to have a lot of them, etc. Overall I'd say it's made my decks more well-rounded and balanced and realizing that it isn't a bad thing for my decks to be a bit weaker really changed the way I build decks.

[@bobhouses2036]

When im building a deck, the first thing I do is put in 40 lands, and make it a big deal to take a land out. That way you aren't looking at all your cool engine cards and deciding which ones to keep, but you're looking at your NECESSARY lands and deciding how many you can afford to cut

[@floridaman6982]

I built a practice deck that was literally phylanth world sculpture and 99 basics. It has become one of my best decks and now that I’ve tweaked it to actually Having interaction and draw it wins way more than it should. It’s just funny how simple it is and everyone just ignores you until its too late!

[@BaldurtheImpious]

I just started playing commander, never played it, been playing modern for 10 years. Your videos are straight to the point and very insightful, spitting all facts, i love it!

[@vileluca]

My lands rule: 30 + the mana to cast my commander + the number of my commander's colors For example, my Ezuri deck has 36 (30 + simic + 4 to cast) My Hazoret has 35 (30 + red + 4 to cast) I think the most lands I have in a deck is 40, with Scion of the Ur Dragon (10 + uber + 5)

[@JamesSamson487]

Does this mean your Ur-Dragon deck would have 44 lands (30 + WUBRG + 9 to cast)?

[@Yoreel_gankins]

the most important thing to add in a deck that I and my friends forgotten an embarrassing amount of times, add a win-con, just slot a triumph of the hoards or omniscience or something, just add another win con

[@some_shitposting_idiot3023]

Omniscience isn't a wincon You need stuff that actually makes you win from free casts

[@barrysetser3909]

That Rayne deck you made - brilliant last night. Was able to keep a low enough profile to bury two opponents with far flashier decks - Blinky and Red copy critters. Had both the cats on the ropes making bad plays with the avalanche of blue enchantments and purposeful commander kills comboed with the blue bricking enchantments. Got so bad at one point that one player dropped a Stasis in the teeth of an active Vodalian Illusionist. Road under the radar last night to nab an unlikely win using many of the principles you espouse in your videos. Thanks for the tips Demo!

[@jasonferguson9052]

Love looking back and seeing who these vids hold up. Still all 100% accurate

[@stuartm7009]

You mentioned Atraxa Voltron as odd, it was literally my first thought with those keywords and that proliferate ability. If you want one that's odd, I'm considering making an Atraxa Saga deck

[@bladetb3934]

I find it funny how so many players say winning isn't the only thing that matter yet actively promote playstyles like snipping a commander to the point that someone does literally nothing at the table. Like why did you sit down to play with them if you didn't want them to play?

[@danacoleman4007]

Good point

[@Maccabeus87]

Graveyard hate is a weakness of my decks. I always find myself taking out the Scavenging Oozes, et al, as I trim down. A lot of your rules are counter-cultural to the popular wisdom of EDH deck builders at large. It's probably one reason why your decks are effective. Thanks for the video. I always learn something.

[@SSolemn]

scavenger grounds 👍🏼

[@Maccabeus87]

@@SSolemn Yep. Need to get some ordered. Only one copy in my collection.

[@labranehit7687]

Don't neglect land destruction as well. For me this is the second big counter-cultural rule that needs more defenders. Just having 2-3 ways to destroy pesky utility lands can make a huge difference.

[@mofomiko]

@@labranehit7687 Absolutely! As soon as the mono black braids player tutored out Cabal Coffers a second time i absolutely mourned and hated myself for not running those targeted destruction lands.

[@labranehit7687]

@@mofomiko as an agro player, glacial chasm was my learning moment. There is nothing quite so infuriating as just sitting opposite to someone that can play it from the grave yard every turn and you can do nothing to stop it.

[@cmsfhms]

I agree partly about the mana rocks. Sol ring and arcane signet are the only mana rocks I include in my green decks and I can easily see someone wanting to run mana crypt. I do understand where you’re coming from for sure! Taking out sol ring just sounds silly to me

[@davenhla]

I want to add a more serious rule: Don;t build your deck around the commander. Explaination: you should have a commander with synergy to your deck. your deck should be able to play and win and go the entire round without playing the commander. obviously, there is a caveat where if the commander has a specific ability to enable several of the cards in the deck, like Arcades, you will want to play it every time. However, at that point you must include a slug of protection tools for your commander so they don;t get insta-ganked. having a deck that can run without the "key" means your foes will never be able to truly put a wall up on your deck. you can just keep going around it. Generally, that means having back up plans and other mechanics in the deck that fit the synergy but can also be their own thing. Easiest example is the 2017 precons. yes, tribal blah blah, but if you look at the cat deck as best example, the "optional" commanders they included can take over the battlefield when they hit, but can also play nice with the main commander. Have back up plans! Personal example: I have a tribal deck that uses Tobias Andrion as commander. Whats a Tobias? well, you and everyone else ask that. Guess how many clues they get to my deck? Exactly two, it's blue and white. They don;t know whats going on until I get my third or fourth creature out. ol' Tobias is just there as a mana dump if somehow that could actually come up. The rest of the deck is self sufficient. I won;t share the tribal type but suffice to say anything in the colors that had decent synergy was also a partial give away and this deck needs to have a bit of surprise factor so people don;t target me out the gate. This is an extreme example but I try to use the commander slot to help fill in a gap in the deck or add synergy rather then build around it. In Tobias case, I pulled him out of a pack many moons ago and he has languished(for good reason lol) in my binder for decades. He has value in the social aspect of the game :) High mana cost commanders with scary abilities can work that way too, but make sure your deck isn't built around it. Scary commander will make you a target, BUT, if the cards you start playing have no connection to the scary commander the confusion it makes with the other players can buy you some time. Usually, a few turns is all it takes for someone else to become the aggro magnet because your expensive commander isn;t a threat yet(can;t play it without enough mana) so it is a decent strategy for midrange decks. Tariel, Reckoner of Souls is one I have used this way.

[@rodgerlang884]

I used to run 35 as my base land count in pretty much all my decks unless the curve was really low or really high, but I watched an episode of The Command Zone where they broke down the math and percentages of getting a 3 land opener between first draw and free mulligan. Convinced me to put 1-2 more lands in all but my leanest decks

[@GallantLee]

To be fair those guys aren’t running casual decks, and they said that they’re looking at fine tuned optimal decks - they also almost always start with card draw in hand. For general play 33/34/35 actually works. It’s just really important to have card draw to dig into/past lands.

[@shaykenway240]

I love the "Use under whelming Commander/Don't just do what everyone else is Doing" advice. I think that a lack of originality such a problem in MtG today. I hate playing ARENA then I'm forced to go against 7/10 players with practically the same deck.

[@underscore_5450]

I always aim to have between 33 and 40 lands, depending on how tight the mana curve is. If the deck stabilizes around 2 or 3 lands, 33 is fine. But if the deck has a super expensive commander or its win con is a pricey spell/creature, you need to be hitting those land drops every turn. I personally end up with 34-37 lands most of the time, just so I can guarantee I don't miss land drops even if I shuffle poorly. 33 lands is just a bit too tight for my liking and really relies on you shuffling perfectly to keep you lands spaced out.

[@jellysandjamz250]

It’s refreshing to hear someone else share my view on the land count.

[@sfcforce]

Could you describe a very unassuming commander deck that would not make you a target yet have that k.o. punch necessary in order to win, please?

[@edhdeckbuilding]

i would say all of my decks fall into that category.

[@sebastiannowak1981]

Love to watch Your videos. They are concrete, well-created and focused on the topic. Thank You.

[@scuttlebus]

35 lands is a solid middle ground for me. I typically try to base it off how the mana curve looks like in the deck. Same with mana rocks. 3 is usually the most I'll put in a single deck. I've started trying to be less obvious with some new decks. Made a quintorius graveyard deck and it's insanely fun

[@forloveofthepage2361]

Whenever I finish a deck I ask myself: "Would I enjoy playing against this deck?" If the answer is no, I usually tweek it till it feels better. I am a life long green player and the only mana rocks I use in green are utility rocks that add something else to the deck. Strix stadium, midnight clock, etc.

[@HanDaimond]

That’s what made me remove Elesh Norn from my bant angels deck, it’s powerful but it doesn’t fit with the theme and overall strategy of the deck, nor it’s fun to interact with and makes you a target, guaranteed.

[@justynwclark]

Play a lot of midnight clock in your green decks?

[@forloveofthepage2361]

@@justynwclark simic. Absolutely.

[@forloveofthepage2361]

@@HanDaimond yeah. Norn is savage. A lot of praetors are no fun cards. I like urabrask since it feels the most fair. I like land destruction. Its my preferred form of degenerate magic, but everyone else hates it. So I use very little and tend to target non basics so my friends will continue to play magic with me.

[@spiritofthenight9067]

I wish more people shared your thoughts. Having fun is why I play casual commander, and it's much more fun when everyone at the table can enjoy it.

[@michaelpatalano9884]

I proxy my decks, so I can easy build $500+ ones, but I find that so boring. I don’t want to include every stable and all the cards EDHREC tells me. I put budget restrictions on them, and have the most fun w the $25-50 range!

[@underscore_5450]

I usually only proxy for the land base. I love playing 3, 4, and 5 color decks but it's so brutal without some OG dual lands or fetches or shocks. But other than that, going for all the most expensive cards usually makes for a boring and overpowered deck.

[@SandOfToru]

This is the way.

[@selkokieli843]

Demo has some wild ideas. I wholeheartedly agree on having enough removal for all kinds of problems to not get locked out or snowballed too fast. That way you get to play most magic. My resource game however is very different. To consistently play magic you need cards and mana. I value land drops and a steady flow of resources over anything. I want to always be able to recast my commander, always have cards in hand to play and avoid getting mana screwed early game. I play creature based decks and expect the board to get reset a few times and prepare for that starting from deckbuilding. Demo looks to get ignored to play his cards, I'm usually on the forefront of flooding the board and applying pressure from the start. That way I get to play a lot of magic. You're almost bound to lose your first creatures so gotta make them count, accruing value or getting to team up early with other aggressive strategies to push damage.

[@selkokieli843]

Doing unexpected things seems pretty low value too as a strategy. If they overestimate you, you're worse than you were. Hiding information isn't very useful if you don't have much value you were hiding.

[@attackonhumby]

i disagree with the land take about not playing mana past turn 5-6. you should be playing mana every turn or your loosing out on a resource. that's it, thats my opinion.

[@alasanof]

I got like 40-ish lands in my Windgrace deck, I like that deck because it's focused on all sorts of powerful lands in that deck. I usually win with Field of the Dead.

[@MaxGideonActor]

Great rules, especially for me, new to the format. For people watching: put vid on 2× speed. Especially in beginning, helps vid to 10mins. ;)

[@nikszot5654]

Best magic channel out there! Love this guy's content!!

[@ImaginationHobbies]

often times if the game runs long the person with the most lands win. unless they get completely flooded. so yes I do thing a land every turn is necessary up to 8-9 turns. if your playing proper removal or control you can often go that long in a game

[@idkjustleavemebeplease]

My favorite thing to do is let the guy with all the lands play his hand down after a board clear, just for me to hit it with another board clear. Lol. What your saying is absolutely right, but having the mana to play perms and choosing to hold some back is to difficult for some people. Lol

[@ImaginationHobbies]

@@idkjustleavemebeplease yeah many don't understand the concept of overextending.

[@johanboen1474]

rule no.1 for deckbuilding: figure out what the deck's trying to do. In my playgroup there are some people whos played long enough they don't build decks to necessarily win, just to have fun, and maybe that's enough. But if your deck is trying to win, figure out what they are and put them in. It's very obvious i know, but its sometimes looked over.

[@zachariahpoltergeist4516]

I ran into your Narset problem A LOT in the beginning (I still kinda do, but I used to a lot more). I would just use Commanders I happen to have because I liked the color combo, not because I built their famous net deck versions. People would target me first and I was all "Guys! I only have like six rares in here! Ease up!"

[@davidny212]

I recently found your channel and love it. Been looking for someone who goes deep into the card pool. I see many others have already commented about the # of lands you play. Not only do you say you play 34 but you also say you don't play a lot of rocks. I find it hard to believe you don't have many games were you are stuck at two lands or three. I used to play no more than 35 lands but have recently gone up to 36 and sometimes 37. I find I am much more consistent now. I get playing 34 or less in a heavy rock deck...like cEDH deck lists run a ton of fast rocks so the land count can be low. But in a casual deck? I just don't see how it works unless your average cmc is 3 or less (which doesn't sound very casual).

[@loxeggcheese]

Resiliency, synergy, and fun are my deck building values!

[@SpellstoneStructures]

Great video. I 100% agree with the underwhelming commander strategy. I have huge problems at the table when I'm playing my Ravos and Sakashima Deck even though it's build about the grandeur ability. Without the rule zero conversation I become a target for sure. Same with my Ardenn and Silas Deck that's build around spykit. I even considered changing commanders for that reason.

[@Loln02345]

33 lands is what I do as well. Of course I also run upwards of 14 "Ramp" spells, whether that be mana rocks or actual green ramp or mana dorks. Depending on the deck and commander that number can be closer to 20 (Koma for instance where all that matters is getting ramped up to my Commander). Also I completely disagree with the last rule. If your strategy can't stand up to people knowing how your deck works, its a bad strategy. Sure decks like that can work, once, when you surprise a new playgroup with your random combo win in a deck that didn't telegraph it but most people have fairly regular groups they play with. Once your strategy is spoiled, now what? You gonna tear the deck down and build something else? There is a difference between strategy and tactics. Your deck should be able to stand up to having it strategy known and be able to win off its tactics anyway.

[@nathangentry1419]

To add to your second part, unless your playgroup is targeting you for your deck the odds that you can’t go off with your combo is slim

[@Loln02345]

@@nathangentry1419 Right. Again, even being "targeted" for your combo shouldn't really matter unless we're talking about them 3v1ing you out of the game. If that is the case then you have a different problem altogether as that's really not how the game is supposed to be played. If I know someone has a 3 card combo and I see 2 of the three in play i'm going to kill one of those pieces unless i'm very sure I can stop the third piece anyway. That isn't targeting, and wouldn't be targeting if it was done to me its just good threat assessment. That is why you shouldn't be playing 2/3 of your combo unless you can protect it. You should play 1/3 which might go unremarked and then wait until you can slam the remaining two pieces in the same turn. Playing a surprise deck with an unknown combo can give you an edge since it would let you maybe play 2/3 without anyone realizing what they are. But again, that trick works exactly one time. If you're going to play with new randoms every week at your LGS then you don't need to design decks this way you just need to not play something super meta, but if you're playing with a steady group that means you have to tear the deck down and restart each week. Again, wouldn't it be easier to just play a deck whose combos or wincons are resilient enough, and whose protection and interaction suite is strong enough that even if they know its coming they may be unable to stop it without straight up 3v1ing you which just means they hand the game to whoever they aren't targeting? People run a limited amount of interaction. If you can take a hit or two and keep swinging thats usually enough whether they know its coming or not because they can't afford to dump all their interaction on you as it would just leave them open to one of the other players.

[@nathangentry1419]

@@Loln02345 I agree, the threat assessment at our table is awful though. And people take things way to far in terms of handing games off simply because they have a grudge against someone. Me included (Turn 4 Terastodon that only hit one persons lands) but mostly if people combo out it isn’t until turn 7/8 or possibly later and we are mostly okay with it because if they get there its okay and we go next.

[@Loln02345]

@@nathangentry1419 Sure, but my point is that the OP in his video is lobbying for you to play suboptimal cards and combos because you can "catch them off guard", to which my counter point is that if you design a deck correctly it can handle a certain amount of counterplay and still do its thing. So the element of surprise is pointless, and in some ways I feel makes you an even bigger target. His point, and yours it seems, is that "Well if I play a good deck I get targeted and then I can't win". If that is true then your table has an issue with threat assessment or spite plays and you're being teamed by all three players for something that has very little to do with your actual deck. No deck, no matter how well built, can actually stand up to all three players ganging up on it for the entire game assuming their decks are at least somewhat competent (Outlier like a 3 turn infinite deck vs stock precons is not what I'm talking about). In fact, i consider myself a pretty good player. I'm MORE likely to target your deck if I don't know what it can do, and to overreact to cards that might combo in your deck if I don't know how the combo works than I am to a deck that is far more powerful but a known quantity. Again its an information game. If I KNOW our mutual opponents deck has a 3 card combo but he only has 1 piece in play I know I can give him some slack. If I have no idea what your deck does, or what combos off with what, i'm going to be very likely to just throw the kitchen sink at you as long as I can still hold back just enough to confidently stop our mutual opponent if he begins moving toward his win. Any spare control, or loose damage I have that I don't need to stop our mutual opponent is coming your way since I have no way of knowing what is or isn't important for you so my best bet is to just hammer you into the ground and then deal with the known variables. Its counter intuitive for less experienced players, but honestly I think its the best play. Especially if you're being coy about how your deck works. I just have to assume everything is a combo piece and that you're always 1 turn away and act accordingly since I have no way of reading into your resources any good information.

[@CorZ1lla]

Damm 33 lands is low, I like 36-38 + mdfc

[@OrcDragon65]

About your experience with Narset, I think that things are taking a positive shift nowadays. Like a D&D Session Zero, at least at my LGS, every game seems to start out with a brief conversation about Power Level and where everyone estimates their deck falls on that scale, and it always ends with an agreement to play at the same more or less accepted level of play. Often people will put away their world ending hate deck if everyone else is playing more casual. So I think even if someone has a potentially crippling commander, people are more likely to ask how strong the deck is before making assumptions.

[@bentleywelch4990]

My Atraxa Saga deck is LIT! I also did Chulane Merfolk and people didn’t think it would be good until it was too late. I like taking powerful commanders and doing a weird twist! You gotta try Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs Superfriends!

[@starwarsfananimations]

Who else is here after the Mana Crypt, Nadu, Jeweled Lotus, and Dockside extortionist bans lol 😄

[@JessBritvec]

I think your land perspective is interesting considering your take on trying to look more inconspicuous. I’m going to have to pay more specific attention to how you balance that in your gameplay videos. I have 7 decks and 5 of them have 37 lands. The main reason is I play at some LGS’ where people expect the mulligan rule to be in full effect. If I only played with my two personal play groups where we allow a mulligan to 7 every time I might play fewer lands. The other 2 decks have 33 lands. One is a stronger than average grixis deck with a low curve and ramp in the form of rocks. Even with a low curve my win conditions are direct damage x spells or mana intensive combos that I also want to be able to protect. Since the end of the game comes sooner I really need to be ramping to get there as fast as the deck possibly can to close the time my opponents have to stop me. I don’t consider ramp and hitting land drops to be the same thing, hitting a land drop every turn keeps you on tempo for free, ramp can help you catch up for the cost of typically 2 or 3 (or more) mana, which can put you behind in tempo itself. Ramping ahead feels worth the cost to me, but can get the attention of your opponents where hitting every land drop seems normal (I guess it depends on your opponents). I do think my personal play style emphasizes tempo more than the average person though, even for lower powered decks and I have a bias against very long games (2 1/2 + hours), but that bias is shared by a lot of players. I do agree that its not always necessary to hit land drops every turn late game, but I think that those decks are in the minority and its easy to find reasons to require hitting them. The other one I have with 33 lands is Kamiz who can easily filter through my deck, it gives me a lot of card advantage and I don’t want to ever be mana flooded so I can make sure I can take advantage of the Connive ability. I think thats the only deck where I’ve actually thought to myself that I had more than enough lands. Having a lot of card draw or card advantage is one of the few elements that I think has a large effect on the land count, since seeing more cards ups your probability of finding them in your deck.

[@markdziamski4859]

Feed The Swarm is absolutely a staple in Black or Dimir or Rakdos

[@Slim3398]

I think commander has evolved past getting focused for playing cyclonic rift, or blue, or running Rhystic study. Most people play them now and having good threat assessment is key.

[@labranehit7687]

Don't agree that most people play them but I do think that more people play removal.

[@rodgerlang884]

I love monolith commanders - Even not playing infinite combats, Avacyn or Master of Cruelties Kaalia is still Kill on Sight, but she's still my favorite deck. Find ways to protect her and find ways to work around her not being on the field, that's part of the fun of the deck. This is commander, I want my deck to reflect my commander - is that a bit more fragile? Sure, but the payoff is so much fun

[@SaraKkkkkkkk]

Totally - I have a Satoru Umezawa deck, and I NEED him on the battlefield. So the deck is just large stupid creatures, unblockable creatures, and counterspells/protection.

[@Ixerxe]

The ultimate rule is to believe in the heart of the cards.

[@Echelon1984Gaming]

Love the video - really unique perspective with valuable information!

[@chrisbenson6753]

Great video, hard disagree with the land counts though. I find decks with a low land count you either durdle (which can sometimes let you take games by surprise) or you spike hard. Even when I win off a durdle, it feels undeserved.

[@johnnyreaper9714]

I am currently running 29 lands in my Brago, King Eternal deck for 3 main reasons. 1: I have a lot of 1-3cmc cards that tutor lands/mana rocks 2: I am running an absurd amount of ramp/land comeback cards. Yes, every now and then I have to mulligan but you can have that happen in 30+ land decks. 3: I have a lot of 1 mana scry/draw cards.

[@kyubikirby]

Funny you mention Feather Blink, as I'm working on making a Blink deck for each White/x color combination, and Feather was my choice for Boros, and it works wonderfully

[@fatbeard8072]

So true, I've been down playing my lands a bit and though with mana rocks, adding different ones that do the same thing up to a point, but always try to have a secondary on the card. Like Mind stone, or Cultivator's Caravan. As for Obvious commanders, I do the same, either try to down play them, or don't play them at all, OR Play them so my opponents HAVE to waste a spell or two against it. I will then have back ups. For example, for Arcades, the Strategist(such a fun deck) I put in High Alert, then Rasaad yn Bashir and Belligerent Brontodon for a few of my non defender creatures like Charix, the Raging Isle and Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive. To be able to attack with a big defense and block and deal damage with Defense.

[@edni5013]

one of my rules is if a land enters tapped it's upside schould be good enough to justify it, otherwise a basic could do the same job. the other one is for the most time incrimental gain outweighs instant gains so cards that do something every turn than rather just one and done.

[@AlphaWolfHowl]

I think a good deck should have around 50 mana sources. In my kinnan deck I only run 28 lands but I run 12 dorks and 9 rocks, plus my commander adds additional mana and I have things like nyxbloom and vorinclex to increase it even further. In nongreen you should run 40 lands and 10 rocks. Period. Commander is about playing big stuff, and being able to play multiple big things in 1 turn is even better.

[@noobwant3d]

Feed the swarm is awesome! Especially for willodusk.

[@crazymexicanoloco]

Great video, lots of solid advice. I myself tell people that the land count is 100 percent subjective and there is no absolute number you must reach. Shoot, I have a yuriko deck that has 22 lands and a landfall deck with only 30 lands. But I love that you keep the number relatively low. Too many people keep saying that it should automatically be 40.

[@robertdumas4125]

I agree with you with the feed the swarm card comment, it’s a very useful black enchantment removal; especially with tutors

[@Blueniter]

Here are my rules as newcomer to Commander 1.) Build something you really want avoid meta commanders if you want some calm matches and my favorite commanders is (*Aesi Tyrant of Gyre Strait* *Yargle and Multani*) 2.) Spend extra on few card never hits wrong when you gonna ramp or if you need draw power. 3.) Mono color is quite funny to play but keep in mind White is a danger Zone because people dislike the removals and Avacyn, Angel of Hope you will be target number 1 if they see this card. 4.) I think 40 lands is perfect in my opinion but I play A LOT of ramp to avoid artifacts they can be removed easily by White and Blue. 5.) Experiment ! over and over again! Ask several people to check your deck on moxfield maybe some advice will come handy.

[@barrysetser3909]

Boy can I confirm that "Don't make yourself a target" axiom. Had a sealed BGate event a few weeks back and built what I thought was a solid deck (a few times). Got lucky and drew that new doubling dragon commander and enough dragons to make it work. Each time my other opponents sussed out who had the best deck and promptly got godstomped in all the matches - guess it was a reward (sarcasm) for making a good deck? Yes, don't be the obvious target.

[@s.c.304]

So if you are only putting in 33/34 land, how much mana ramp/rocks/dorks do you add as a baseline? Meaning before tweaking in relation to what your specific commander and deck synergy/goals are? Thanks!!

[@Reality-zs2mf]

The rule I have for lands in a commander deck is 30+the number of colors in the deck (not including lands with no mana ability). That always seems to be more than enough for me and I rarely ever have a need to mulligan. One of the most powerful decks I've ever played against only had 28 lands in it and it won a majority of the time because of how consistent it was.

[@TheWaffleRadio]

IIRC when the Command Zone looked at the games they had recorded in some kind of data episode, having the most lands in play/the most mana available at the end of the game was one of the bigger correlations with winning. Going first actually as well. I don't think that's the definitive word on what wins commander games, but it's interesting to consider. Wish more data like that was available but it's not really easy to collect in a global sense. I do think 34 lands and few rocks/ramp is not ideal. You may not need 37 lands in every deck nor 10+ rocks. But a friend of mine plays Dihada Binder of Wills. When he gets her out on turn 3 with a 2 cmc rock, then -2s and hits say 1 legend in 4 cards he gets 3 treasure. Playing a land on T4 gets him 8 mana on turn 4. He can drop some huge impactful card or surge ahead with several medium plays. When your next turn is "4 drop, pass" they leave you in the dust. So hitting those first 6 lands and getting some additional ramp, is pretty important in my experience from my playgroup and what I see elsewhere. Not that you're incorrect in your own playgroup. Just my own experience of commander.

[@hviring7441]

Are fetch lands comparable to mdfc lands? Should I add more lands when playing (multiple) fetches?

[@ryanbolson23]

One rule I follow is “don’t be afraid to build a deck for multiple power levels” So I’ll have a side board of cards I can swap out with the 99 to increase or lower a deck’s power level depending on the table I play at, that way I can play any deck at any table theoretically. So I’m not forced into playing certain decks I can enjoy all my decks when I want.

[@Reikosamaa]

16:30 and here i am witth one of my decks being mono-green with a complete changable commander xD (i mean some of them will probably run better then others but having Melt Titania, both Rhonas, the commanders from commander collection green as well as the older green Praetor in it works pretty well for me :3)

[@Luxorcist]

Personally, i like having mana through the entire game. As the game goes on i want to be able to do more in a single turn so i usually go with 40 lands/rocks minimum. My Dragon deck has 50 lands/rocks in it and it works out pretty well. I dont like being mana starved or being 6 turns in waiting for the 1 land i need to make a play. That said i have friends that only run 25-30 lands and it works for them. I guess you just have to feel out the deck and ask yourself if it needs more or can it do with less.

[@paulszki]

I think people who play fewer lands and then just fly under the radar because they missed their land drops and are "oh no mana screwed!" need to get attacked relentlessly. Often times, if you ignore that player out of pity or because they aren't a threat, they will just suddenly "turn on" in the late game and have a fistful of cards and more to come because they play fewer lands. Sure mana-screw CAN happen but with one free mulligan AND the London mulligan version, getting mana-screwed is just kinda really unlikely if you put enough lands in your deck and actually mulligan correctly instead of keeping a 2 land hand and praying you'll draw lands on time. You shouldn't be rewarded for it by getting pity-ignored for half the game, only to then wreck the whole table because everybody was busy fighting everyone except you.

[@Luxorcist]

@@paulszki yup, this has happened to me many times in my group lol i see one of our guys is struggling and im like eh ill leave em alone, and by the end of the game i get destroyed by them because they had all the cards in hand to win.

[@RealClassixX]

One person in my playgroup recently had the same experience you had with Narset, but with Orvar, the All-Form.

[@lowlyspy]

Play 3v1 typically isn't very fun......most of the time. I do have 1 guilty pleasure deck in Purphoros, God of the Forge. Whenever I play it the games always wind up turning into arch-enemy and i'd be lying if I said I didn't have fun doing so. My pod enjoys it too which makes it all the more entertaining.

[@Aad-xv9fh]

One of my favorite decks is an Imoti/keruga deck. My playgroup has adapted to kill imoti on sight, because otherwise I storm off with cascades. This deck can generate two lands each turn, though, so the last game that we played I ended up casting her 3 times before she stuck around, and then won the turn after.

[@odjaur]

34 lands is a terrible advice, missing a landdrop in the first 6 turns usually makes you a non factor in the game. seen it hundreds of times. i would rather flood, but ofc a happy medium is prefered. usually in casual games the player with the most mana wins in my opinion.

[@SSolemn]

I have a lot of 34-35 land decks, all with mana curve of 2.8 - 2.9. One has a alot of dorks that make a lot of mana, the other have a ton of rocks, and the other has a very aggresive draw that most times makes me discard lands. Plus I never start a game with less than 3 lands in hand.

[@underscore_5450]

Yeah, it doesn't matter if everything in your deck costs 6 or less if your 6 mana is only letting you play 1 spell per turn. And the number of lands you use depends on a lot of things like how many colors you're running, your average cmc, how many mana dorks/rocks you have, how many colored pips you have in costs versus generic costs, ect. I don't think there's an easy answer to how many lands you should run. It very much depends on the deck.

[@yugioh395]

I would encourage people to consider that adding card velocity to your deck can make up for a low land count. For example, if one runs 34 lands, rather than adding 4 more lands, one could add 4 efficient forms of card advantage/velocity. This could achieve the exact same desired effect, while also solving the issue of flooding.

[@uphillwalrus5164]

Good ramp, a low mana curve, and smart mulligans enable you to easily get away with 30-32 lands. Even fewer at higher power tables

[@draculwalker1892]

33 landz in all of my 28 deckz Never have a problem with it

[@thorium883]

I've built decks with 33/34 lands and they have worked nicely, albeit I only do it when the mana curve is fairly low. It depends a lot on what you're building, but cutting a couple lands to get a cheap spell that's going to make you draw or some ramp, can work well. Just be sure to test it by yourself before playing with someone to see how it runs

[@kelmirosue3251]

A commander deck I really wanna build is a burn focused deck using Krark and Vial Smasher. I do feel that Vial Smasher is a bit of a monolith but the nice thing about it is that you dont absolutely need it to win. But one of the things I love about this combo is the flexibility I get from also having Krark, with a little bit of RNG luck I can get some devastating effects on the table to happen twice, giving me strong options with other cards like tokens sorcery/instances with deathtouch, or being able to search 2 cards cause tutors. And on opponents turns I become a menace cause I can cast something like lightning bolt, ok cool I get to deal 7 damage total if I get lucky with Krark and Vial Smasher gives me the additional 1 damage to someone random. Do this every turn and it becomes a very strong idea. But I'd need to figure out how to build such a deck first

[@OldWitchDoctor]

Mana rocks depend, I like to include guild signets, especially if I am running 3+ colors, just because the sooner you can get those colours online the better. Granted I play a lot of red and black so there isn't really much land ramp to lean on anyways.

[@aidantuplin6108]

In the video you suggest not to focus on one thing, to make the deck more versatile. How would I do that with my Tinybones, Trinket Thief deck?

[@brunopintaric8997]

Thankfully a bunch of cards in my Yurlok deck either protect him or deal burn damage based on untapped lands or whatever regardless of whether Yurlok's on the table or not. But when I first started playing it I ran into that monolith commander damage you mentioned, yeah.

[@abrahamlesmana5104]

Thanks for this guide I beat people who blindly follow this guide in casual table. 34 Lands is just wrong for casual deck.

[@abitofsupport601]

I have decks like henzie that have really high cmc creatures that i might want to cast normally at some point, so having 37 lands is a must. At the same time in that deck i also hate not drawing gas, so i include ramp that gets lands out of the deck (only rocks are sol ring and arcane signet) and abundance.

[@FirePhoenix103]

The rule I have for lands is,I put as many as I think I may need. If I need to hit 6 land drops fairly early on then I'll have around 34-36 but for my atla palani I only ever need 4 lands so I have 30 lands +ramp+mana rocks. It all just depends on what deck it is for me

[@alanschroeder]

i’ve tried to use more than 33 lands in some decks and i always bring it back to 33 maybe 35 if i’m playing a heavy high cost deck but other than that i don’t go over 33 and i’ve never had issues as long as your mana curve is good and use mulligans you’ll be fine

[@jayjayhooksch1]

When I look at average lists I tend to notice they are on a similar page to you when it comes to land count-33,34ish. In general I think this is incorrect and one of the first things I do when testing out a list is add two lands. When you are mana screwed there's nothing you can do with those extra spells. At least when you are mana flooded, with proper deck construction, you should have some mana sinks as well as ways to utilize dead cards (looters, discard effects, brainstorm effects etc).

[@gangrel1234]

33/34? Dude😱 i run 37, because math says, i draw 3 lands by turn 3(a bit simplified🙈) Do you have realy low curves/only chesp ramp? Aren't you mana screwed often? Nice Video!

[@DrakeAMV]

I agree, i start every deck with 33 lands. Depending on the strength of the deck and the commander I may add or remove a couple. On a erage I use 33 and I do just fine.

[@LivingPeople12]

I actually made that Yurlok "make mana for the table and burn them" laser focus and fell on my nose with it. I was too excited to see mana burn. ^^' So I changed it to a broarder "punish everything", now it works -That deck does hate that nasty Bane of Progress tho.

[@SandOfToru]

The comments show how different playgroups behave and cultivate the game which I find very interesting. But besides that in all of what Demo said lets thank him for beeing such a mountain of creativity where media seems to get more and more stale these days. Cheers Demo and all great minds which bring not the bought power but the fun to the table 🍻

[@scribdfukkyu9630]

3:11 me playing Kenrith group hug and being manascrewed (stuck on 3 lands) aggro dude focusing me saying "I hope you understand" mind you other people were also open and visibly playing control decks :)

[@mrpinguimninja]

The key to more monolith-ish commanders is having backups in your deck. Obeka players must play sundial of the infinite and discontinuity. It's still risky, but less so (I say that 'cause I think obeka is an amazing design and I really wanna build around it)

[@Tvboy777]

The other key is to have removal that operates on a different axis from your main strategy. Don't rely on ETB removal effects on creatures in a Roon deck, that's how you lose to a Torpor Orb or Humility.

[@okgut2033]

Obeca can play alot of stifle effects too as backups. So she fine.

[@CheshireCat87]

Agree with so much except the land thing. I never play less than 36 lands and even that is probably not enough.

[@andrewrockwell1282]

I don't agree with everything but I do agree on your amount of lands. I max out at about 34, sometimes less. I generally count MDFCs as a full land.

[@tommieboi707]

34 lands is the sweet spot for me. I notice that if you ramp early and fast that you have a better chance of winning. I can't wait until turn 6-7 to get those lands on the battlefield just to play my win con. I like to ramp by turn 4-5. Land count is not as important as ramping if you are playing with a fast play group. In my group if you are waiting to get your 10th land drop on turn 10 then you're already dead.

[@LadyBernkastel92]

I've been rebulding all my decks from the ground up recently and I've settled into '40 mana sources per deck' with the idea that after I've played enough games I can look at my notes I've taken and see if I'm flooding out too much. Personally I would rather flood out than be mana screwed, but I also tend to include a decent amount of mana sinks and loot/rummage effects to mitigate flooding. Especially since in commander I will always have at least one spell to play unless my commander is on the table.

[@aaroncorsini6165]

Mana sources or lands?

[@LadyBernkastel92]

@@aaroncorsini6165 Lands and rocks. Though it has just occurred to me that maybe I should also count dorks and ramp in that number too. It usually ends up 37 lands and 3 rocks, depending on the colors.

[@idkjustleavemebeplease]

40 for lands, rocks, ramp is my go to. If I got alot of 2 to 4 drops, I will swap a few for more draw.

[@LadyBernkastel92]

@@idkjustleavemebeplease I was wondering if I should count Ramp and dorks towards my total mana package, maybe as half a card each.

[@aaroncorsini6165]

@@LadyBernkastel92 hm okay i usually run 33-37 lands and about 15 pieces of ramp so rocks, dorks, land ramp etc

[@JEL625]

Ive come to understand that I will Always be the target right out the gate based on the commanders and colors i like to play. Im not mad about it, Grixis and Dimir are less about being friendly and more about making pawns. So I lean into it. I make decks for how i want to mildly annoy my opponents each game. Ranging from "i want to be the annoying gnat" to "im gonna be 'The' problem until i win or the table takes me out".

[@chaianneramage5]

I love playing commanders that people think are weak or they dont know that well. I build my deck around two to three different win conditions that can overlap, but its priceless to watch them freak when they are gatekeeping me when my deck isnt even going in that direction.