Nonbos You Play Anyway | Magic: the Gathering | Commander

[@nik700]

Also to consider, nombos might be affected from tempo. Mystic Remora is a nombo with Pyr, but drawing a bunch of cards on turns 1 and 2 and letting it go on turn 3/4 after your commander is on the field seems worthy

[@Vangeltheunderdog]

Absolutely what I was thinking. It's like why some people scratch their head as to why I play Gift of Estates, Oreskos Explorer, and Surveyor's Scope in the same monowhite deck where I always want to hit my land drops. Because early draw in monowhite is very scarce, hitting any combination of these cards in the opening hand gives incredible assured longevity that is extremely worth the risk of drawing into a potentially "dead" one later in the game. For example, seeing even one of these makes my effective starting hand size actually ~9 cards; if I see two in combination of these, my effective starting hand size is now ~11 cards - insane!

[@hoodiegal]

I think it's very valid to run cards in the 99 that don't all synergize with each other if they are good individually. You're not gonna draw both every game, and if they're good enough by themselves, it doesn't matter if they clash with another card in the deck. It's when cards in the 99 nonbo with your commander that you should give it a good hard think.

[@WarrickRanger]

I love Joey’s analysis, because above all else, his stance is “there’s more than one way to play and build, and you should maintain respect for other people’s differences”. Absolute stand up dude.

[@xxhellspawnedxx]

This is the deal when building a stax or hatebears deck, bigtime. You have oodles of card draw, alongside things that limits card draw and spells cast in a turn, things that turn off artifacts alongside your mana rock collection, creatures with powerful etb's alongside Torpor Orb effects, and so on. It's all about conservative playing, about not tripping yourself up. Just like a dancer, it's very easy, if you take a wrong step, to trip yourself and fall flat on your face. You just have to cultivate the presence of mind and the steel belly required to hold on to cards and play them based on what impacts your opponents most, while affecting your current board and game plan the least.

[@hoodiegal]

Oh I do have an example! In my Muldrotha deck, I run Kaya's Ghostform to protect Mully, but I also run Massacre Girl as a boardwipe. Usually when Massacre Girl hits the board, so many things are dying that Kaya's Ghostform won't save Mully and will just result in her dying twice. But Massacre Girl is still such a good card in Muldrotha that I think it's worth it. (Also, if I happen to have a Vat of Rebirth in play when Massacre Girl hits the board, Mully will be right back regardless)

[@buggy65x]

This was a good episode. What I like most about this style of video is that Joey is talking *"with"* us about things that have nuance with an inviting attitude. He's not talking *"at"* us to keep engagement up. That said, I don't want Joey to feel pressured to deliver evocative content every single episode. A relaxed examination of an small idea is fine enough. You're doing good work, enjoy the conversation as much as we are.

[@JJMickeyMedia]

Great topic! In my Golgari graveyard deck I love running Splendid Reclamation even though I have cards that want those lands to stay in the graveyard. The flexibility of being able to choose 'do I want these on board or in the yard' has proven worth it. On the more competitive side, with one of my cedh decks, I experimented with taking out all my mana rocks, cause I have Collector Ouphe and Null Rod and a bunch of mana dorks so why not just cut the rocks that will be turned off by my own artifact-hate anyways? It turned out that despite running those artifact-hate pieces that I still actually benefitted much more from running the mana rocks that not having them, plus if my artifact-hate got removed, well then if I didn't have my own mana rocks on board to 'go online' I would just end up falling behind.

[@TinyLokiGaming]

A nonbo I have is Mage's Contest in Auntie Blyte, and while it doesn’t give Auntie counters, I still love it because it's flavorfully coherent and one of the few ways to get a red counterspell

[@letopizdetz]

Nightmare Shephard is a light nonbo in any deck with recursion. But sometimes you just need that extra trigger so I still use it.

[@sebastianomasi202]

Fun nonbo I found making my new Tetzin deck: I was considering adding Platinum Angel, and realized that if I were to loose all of my life while I had the flipped land from Azor’s Gateway, I couldn’t get any mana from it. Very strange corner case scenario.

[@tfc_mtg]

Amazing video Joey! It is so important to be aware of the nonbos in your deck so that you can understand how to play around them. I have definitely accidentally nonbo'd myself during a game before, but instead of taking the cards out of the deck I like to keep it in mind for next time!

[@RickMacLennan]

I have an Ezuri Claw of Progress Elf Typal deck that runs lots of Lords. Ezuri alone is great at pumping key creatures, but can't pump the whole team easily because I produce so many tokens and so many low cmc elves. So I accept that at some point the Lords will turn off Ezuri adding Experience Counts as new Elves come into play. But by that point I usually had six or seven Experience anyway, so it's still impactful.

[@SuperPlumber64]

I run Tasha's Hideous laughter in my Captain Ngathrod mill deck, I know it's a nonbo but I love it when the spell resolves!

[@jonathanfagerlund976]

This immediately makes me think of Asinine Antics in my new Jaheira deck. The whole deck focuses heavily on artifact synergies, and AA only synergizes with the commander. However, it synergizes so insanely well that it merits inclusion no matter what.

[@Unikuuu]

I found nonbo from my Megatron deck during Christmas week when lending deck to friend. Rebbec gives protection to Megatron also which causes problems with equipments (deathtouch and swords i.e.). But then again it also gives easier time to get through combat alive with Megatron flipping to mana for post combat main phase.

[@ajspam-g7k]

Honestly never knew the origin of “nonbo” and it coming from combo makes a lot of sense now

[@nayuta_23]

Lightning Greaves is an interesting case. I have a Marwyn deck in which the strategy consists in repeatedly targeting my commander with untap effects to go mana infinite. While being an obvious nombo, Lightning Greaves is also a key piece of the deck as it is the most important part of my win-on-turn-one god hand and a great piece of continuous protection. Being 1 mana cheaper to cast and equip makes it make the cut where I don't even play the more synergistic Swiftfoot Boots.

[@loptr9581]

I have an Athreos god of passage deck, and I also run the classic Karmic Guide/Reveillark combo to help close out games. Thing is, with Athreos out my opponents can end the loop by just choosing to let me return either creature to my hand on death. The reason I keep it is because 1. There are enough sac outlets in that kind of aristocrat deck that I can sacrifice Athreos if I need to end the game. 2. Because both cards work extremely well on their own independent of the combo. Karmic guide having an in built death trigger can tax that little extra life, and reveillark can recur important creatures on its own

[@barrytdrake]

Thanks, Joey. This was amazing! Thank you for helping us to think better and become better Magic players. Best wishes to you and your husband in 2024.

[@BasisFazer]

Katsumasa, the Animator's upkeep effect of adding 1/1 counters to artifacts got shut off by Indomitable Archangel because those artifacts had shroud. Actually thinking about it. Katsumasa as a whole gets shutdown by Indomitable Archangel, but I would rather that layer of protection from targeted removal than not. And with Katsumasa in the 99, it was a rare enough occurrence to have both on the field anyway.

[@webbc99]

One of the best “nonbo” is Roaming Throne in Pantlaza. Indeed you don’t get two discovers, but almost every dino you run has a triggered ability, so you are still getting huge value from every dino that you’re a) playing to trigger the discover and b) getting for free from the discover

[@crawdaddy2004]

I don’t really consider that a “non-bo.” Ouphe and treasures actively work AGAINST each other. Throne and Pants just don’t augment each other.

[@Garl_Vinland]

I like Endless Thirst in my Liesa Forgotten Archangel tribal deck. It’s a nonbo to the extreme as I always want Liesa on the field, and she basically means nothing on the field ever dies. But it’s flavourful and I like the endurance it gives if you kill her

[@apocpon1944]

The only nonbo story I can immediately think of off the top of my head is in my Estrid bantchantress deck. I hadn't played it in awhile so I was a little less adept with it, and I accidentally dropped an Enchanted Evening right into my own Starfield of Nyx. Suffice to say, I reread starfield and found out that the animate effect only affects my enchantments. Oops, bye-bye lands!

[@mn6334]

I kind of have a weird idea in my head of building a Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire deck with Phage the Untouchable in there just for the excitment of "I could die on any trigger from my commander" Looking at edhrec it looks like there are 2 decks in the database with the same idea as me 😅

[@Vrael95]

I consider nonbos cards I cannot use from graveyard in my reanimator decks. I like everything in there to be permanents or even better creatures. Like 50+ creatures rest of it are lands, permanents and only 5+- int/sourc "spells". But there are so many great non-permanents I want to play too! The issue is they are so hard to squeeze into the list if they compete with likes of "The Living Death" and the few instant removals for case smt shuts down etbs. My solution so far is that I decide what graveyard filling method I want to use. I have 3 reanimators: Karador uses mill and as much creatures as possible, Sidisi uses mill but little more "spells" especially those with flash-back because she herself cannot recure those. And finally my Kroxa&Kunoros is based on draw and discard "spells" in red. I run there mostly big creatures that are sweet to dich into graveyard and be reanimated with Kroxa and the useless "spells" can be exiled afterwards to Kroxas ability. This way I have more control over what goes to graveyard and the deck has supper high card velocity. How do you build your reanimator decks? What instant or sorceries get the pass and how do you fill your yard? :)

[@ColeTrainStudio]

I think it's important to state clearly that nonbos are only a problem if they were intended to be synergistic, but actually stop you from getting any value at all. This may sound obvious, but it's actually a precise statement. If one card shuts off another card, but you got value from the first card already, that is not a nonbo. If two cards cannot be used together simultaneously, but don't need to be (i.e. they answer different problems), that is not a nonbo. I think there's a semantic distinction to be made here: cards that don't synergize or actively stop you from doing a thing are not nonbos if they are an answer to a board state, they are tech pieces.

[@gehtdichnixan2499]

Great Video :) In my Henzie "Cheat your soul out" Torrres Deck is Cascade (Apex Devastator and such) but also Massaker Girl, Bringer of the last gift and the black dragon, that whipes the board, I forgot the name, and these cards you propably don`t wanna hit. Luckely Wotc came up with brilliant stuff and got rid of the only downside of (ridicolous) cascade and give us explore. now I can take the card in my hand, instead of exiling, if I don't cast ist. Amazing, can't wait for the Apex eqivalent with four times explore. Till than, I hope to not hit my boardwippy creatures to often xD

[@ANitschkeProduction]

If you don't cast the cascade hit. It gets shuffled with all the revealed cards, not stuck in exile. Still sad to hit it though.

[@theconspiracy124578]

I have two I can think of, in my Saruman of Many Colors Esper control deck I run a notion thief and an orcish bowmasters, but only because they are individually good on their own and have flash which my commander loves so If I ever have both in hand, I just need to choose which one is more advantageous to my current game state. The SECOND nonbo would be Rebbec, architect of ascension in my shorikai genesis engine deck. She gives all artifacts protection from essentially everything in the late game but at the cost of turning of any of your cards from interacting with any of your own artifacts.

[@Sarleeg56721]

I used to play Eladamri, Lord of Leaves in my Lathril deck that runs Marwyn / Staff of Domination

[@TheStephenation]

I lost a somewhat recent game due to a nonbo (which I deliberately included in my deck). I was playing my PreDH Savra deck and my only remaining opponent was at low life and had just used a board wipe. I just needed to get a land into my hand so that I could retrace Worm Harvest, then I'd be able to swing in for the win with a token swarm. I dredge up Life from the Loam to do this, but happened to hit Gaea's Blessing, which shuffled my graveyard back into my library and left me with nothing. I knew this was a possibility from the start, but I run Gaea's Blessing anyway because in other scenarios it's a lifesaver.

[@empurress77]

So many Nonbos. The main type of nonbo i keep is one that has very good synergy with other cards otherwise. EG: Brash Taunter with equipment that gives protection from color. It can make my Taunter deal no damage but that mostly is outweighed by the bonuses.

[@jacobbrown9894]

Back when I had her an important part of my Klothys deck was being able to remove my own Collector Ouphe when I started with Dockside loops. The usefulness of Embercleave, Reaver Cleaver, and Chandra’s Ignition stopped me from putting Sword of Forge and Frontier in my Laelia despite its own usefulness. I have never felt Greaves justified itself enough in a Voltron deck tbh, I’m more open to it in decks that are just combo around a commander. In my Adeline deck I do run Lion Sash alongside pro-white swords and Akroma’s Will which either stop me from equipping it to Adeline or make it fall off if it was equipped but it is tutorable and repeatable graveyard hate that has basically killed opponents on its own by disabling grave strats

[@casketbase7750]

My Ghen Arcanum Weaver build is full of nonbos. For example, Eidolon of Rhetoric conflicts with Phyrexian Arena. But since Ghen can sac Enchantments to recur other ones, I can happily amend my boardstate if I draw into contradictory cards

[@WMDistraction]

I’d argue that, while from a technical standpoint it’s a non-bo, the Crux example isn’t a non-bo in practice. Those non-dragons accelerate the strategy so Crux can be a wincon, and when you’re behind, the accelerators are quickly irrelevant. You are happy to clear those dudes either way because you’re either winning or trying not to lose immediately.

[@Ryluth]

I just built a Ragavan Stax/Voltaren deck. I do run Sword of Fire and Ice. There has been so many time I couldn't target Ragavan with Blood mist (enchantment that gives target creature double strike) A similar interaction would be my Cursed Totem stopping my Professional face Breaker, which could be useful if you're low on cards in hand. Which is common. I lose alittle damage but I benefit from a draw effect from Sword/gain protection from Red/Blue. Keeping Ragavan alive from opposing Blasphemous acts, chaos warps, chain reactions 🤣 Happens alittle more than I'd like though

[@rav5373]

A nonbo i have is Knight Exemplar, which gives other knights indestructible and Midnight Reaper, which wants my creatures to die so that i draw cards(i don't have a sac outlet in deck), but i wouldn't cut any of them as they're just both amazing. Another nonbo is Treebeard, Gracious Host in my Doran, the Siege Tower deck. It messes up with a few things like skulk for example, but 4 mana 5/5 with trample that grows himself and others (especially that i have a bit of a lifegain subtheme in the deck) is too good to pass up.

[@Thelastpraetor]

There was one nonbo that I found surprisingly with Xyris/Esix Esix is only going to make a copy of a creature the first time that Xyris makes a snake, and not anything after that. It was quickly pulled, but maybe I'll find a deck for Esix at some point

[@mxkale-k6r]

So I replied questioning it because I thought the wording was slightly different and xyris' ability was resolved as one trigger rather than one at a time. I still don't know how bad of a nonbo that is though because you can get a copy of any creature on the battlefield.

[@Thelastpraetor]

@heatherkamp114 It's not terrible, but it's definitely not what you want to be doing with Esix. You want to make copies of multiple things, not just one

[@90kalos1]

I was just finishing up the episode about weird rules interactions when thai came out and the Anya and library of leng was mentioned there as well

[@mse326]

This screams Skullclamp and Cathar's crusade in basically ever Wx token deck I have

[@jeffreylong1478]

I think the card that creates the most nombos in my decks is skull clamp, especially with pump spells/ lords that make creatures have bigger butts. Skull clamp is much better when your creatures are 1/1s. But you also need to be able to have enough power on board to close out games. The fact that skull clamp is only one mana though and it can still draw cards early game makes it worth running in any go wide creature deck in my opinion.

[@AngelusNielson]

I only have two plainswalkers in my Elona historic brawl deck so I think that the potentials of the immortal sun outweigh the disadvantages. And since one of them is the lilianna that lets you draw a card when a creature dies and that is not turned off, I don't think there's too much of a disadvantage as I seldom get all 3 of them out at once.

[@dimitriid]

I have a deck built around this nonbo concept: It's an Oswald Fiddlebender deck with a ton of artifacts and most of the time, I might need to tutor up to a better artifact (sometimes several steps away so I have to plan several turns ahead) so I end up getting rid of really useful ones (At least temporarily, if I can find a window I can tutor up to artifact graveyard recurssion) and most people really raise an eyebrow when say, I end up sacrificing my sol ring, because I really need to get a 2 and then a 3 CMC artifact later and unfortunately I don't have any better options to sacrifice an artifact.

[@anlize3422]

I use Tranquil Grove in a deck with quite a few enchantments. That card is there because on my meta, people don't really care much enchant removal and I have people run off with the game with curses, auras and the like. I can stomach losing my enchantments (that I can recover later) to prevent people from reaching a critical mass with their value engines. One Kaima player in particular really hated me because I would blow all his goad enchantments before the endstep, preventing his Kaima from growing and makeing the goad last until his turn.

[@underscore_5450]

I run Doomsday as a win con in my Trazyn deck and it's a bit of a nonbo. Trazyn wants stuff in my graveyard and Doomsday exiles that (as well as most of my library) which has screwed me over completely more than a few times. But if my board state is set up right, I can do some shenanigans with Doomsday and Phyrexian Devourer to boost up Trazyn and one shot the table. I'm fairly certain I've lost more times than I've won with it, but it's such a cool thing to pull off that it's kinda worth it imo.

[@SillyPuppyPrincess]

I am a big fan of Torper orb, it seens to hit soo many plays at my lgs. My recent mono red deck has it in it despite having a few but not many etbs. (like 2 or 3)

[@fuzsyskunk4252]

I have a Doom Whisperer and a Maskwood Nexus in my Chatterfang deck because both are amazing without eachother and I can sandbag one if the other is out :3

[@ylygylygynda]

I run about 3 duplicate creature types in my simic Volo deck. These are the creatures that are good enough to have a single copy around.

[@sinisterpuddle6655]

I play Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker, and skullclamp can be a bit of a nonbo since if it makes a 1/1 a 2/0 when it does, she won't ressurect them. It's acceptable to me because for one I get to use it freely on any tokens I can't get back anyways and sometimes it's worth losing access to a creature to get the extra cards

[@calebharding8221]

I kinda love nonbos, not with my commanders of course, but when I have 2 synergy pieces in the 99 that just happen to nonbo with each other that's fine, the chance of drawing both of them is much lower than the chance of just drawing 1 of them, and sometimes the staxesque pieces that interact strangely make the game even more fun because it turns into a puzzle that I need to solve, and it challenges me to build decks that can solve those kinds of puzzles. I have a Frodo and Sam partner deck, and I don't have anything too bad when it comes to anti synergy, or maybe I just don't notice because it's very resilient and can win on multiple axies. I've won games with the deck where starting turn 3 there was at least 1 effect in play that prevented me from gaining life, but that didn't matter when I got agent of the iron throne out with both my commanders, and sacrificed all my food to completely drain out the table

[@lewish1248]

Collector Ouphe in cedh Gitrog!😅 Shut off my Mana Vault and Lotus Petal but slowed down my opponents even more haha. I would weigh the pros and cons of slowing down my opponents vs if I want to go off now or in a turn.

[@Dragon_Fyre]

I have always thought of a nonbo as cards that do not combo the way a player thinks they do (typically the player has mis-read the card(s) or does not correctly understand a rules interaction). It is otherwise just bad synergy if cards do not function well together.

[@DracoX-hz3tu]

A pretty simple one but I have gisa and geralf in my wilhelt deck despite the fact that it dies to zombie apocalypse. The value of milling and casting a zombie from grave every turn is well worth the tiny risk of it dying to my mass reanimation spell

[@jarekgehrke3915]

I recently came across a sad interaction in my Kelsien, the plague deck. I equipped her with a Sword of Truth and Justice and wanted to use Reconnaissance on her but couldn't.

[@pauldyson8098]

Kelsien's a dude but props to anyone who plays a Kelsien deck.

[@breathofire1449]

The most recent example of a nonbo that I've come across and decided not to run is Eligeth, Crossroads Augur in a Galadriel scry deck. Sure, I would draw tons of cards instead of scrying but every other card in the deck that looks for scrying would be shut off. I personally decided that's not worth keeping.

[@ANitschkeProduction]

In 1 of my token decks, I have Devine Visitation and Helm of the Host. Since Devine Visitation isn't a "may", no matter what kind of creature tokens I would have made. 4/4 flying vigilance Angels are made instead. Though from the Helm, the Angel would still be given Haste. So not a total nonbo. But still feels bad, if there was something I really wanted to copy.

[@Frankenstein3r]

I play 3 Sword of X&Y in my thalia, gaurdian of thraben deck, as well as Stoneforge mystic and Leonin Arbiter

[@gerardoramos3179]

In my Teysa Karlob deck my blood artist and other cards that care when opponents creatures die are nonbo with Lisa forgotten archangel. She shuts down the death triggers on my opponents cards since they are exiled instead. That is probably the card I have looked at most often to cut, but it then randomly puts in work every time I play her and I find it hard to justify the cut

[@adrianmetz3013]

I have a Omanth Locus of the Roil spellslinger ramp deck to either storm off and win witb Thousand Year storm or a huge X cost spell and one of my favorite cards in it is Spelunking which acts as a cantrip that can potentially ramp me but it also allows all my lands enter the battlefield untapped. I like it so much Im also considering playing Amulet of Vigor or Tiller Engine as well to help keep the storm going or in Tiller Engines case, use my ramp spells as interaction to tap down creatures even though they both dont do anything if Spelunking is already in play

[@noahrice1367]

Liesa, Forgotten Archangel with Assault Intercessor. I run both because the deck is run by the other Liesa and having life gain and both Liesa cards is fun. I run Assault Intercessor because it’s a life drain tax effect. Both are too fun and good to have.

[@aagloworks]

I have atleast one nonbo in my izzet spellslinger deck that I know of (and it has happened more than once). I have torpor orb and solemn simulacrum in the deck. The sad robot is the only creature in the deck with etb, so I'm fine with it.

[@billm.5699]

I play Angel of Destiny in same deck as The One Ring. I end up going one direction or the other in a game and the big fliers with lifelink support either decision.

[@verselesscooking9416]

Acceptable Nonbo.... Angel of Jubilation in my decks. SHE SHUTS DOWN my very few sac effects.

[@scottgleason5758]

I run several effects like mangara the diplomat that benefit me when opponents play multiple spells in my kwain deck. But I also run a few archon of emeria type effects in there too. I use one side of that see-saw until it gets removed, then I switch to the other kinda like ok? You don’t want me to benefit from you casting spells, then I won’t let you play spells. Or vice versa

[@davidengkent7756]

One known nonbo that I'm puzzling is I'm planning an update to my Muldrotha deck ... I want to add Yarok. But the deck runs Lotus Field and a full suite of bounce lands ... which are bad ideas if Yarok is in play. If Yarok were in the Command Zone, there's no way I'd do this, but I remain unsure if it's worth it.

[@Magnafiend]

There's a few non-bo's in my Obekka Brute Chronologist deck I still run anyway just because of the amount of redundancy in the deck and the fact that it's more of a gimmicky chaos deck designed to make magic just... not feel like magic anymore. I run a decent number of passive draw and other group hug and/or slug effects, but also run Omen Machine which just flat out says "Players cant draw cards". Usually by the time I drop Omen Machine though I have my other pieces online that trigger off free casts to where I don't care about the draws anymore.

[@j0hnicus]

I have had an Atla dinos deck for a long time with Marauding Raptor and Polyraptor in it even though once in a blue moon I'll hit the combo off of Atla's trigger by accident with no way to stop it and draw the game

[@drew-id]

I've been called out on the Ouphe Non-Bo's and I always am OK with it.

[@pereklund4345]

Hi all nice magic players wanted to share a big part in my Marchesa, the Black Rose commander deck. A big part of it is always being second in life points. But when you become enemy number one, you need cards that give life points, even if both your commander and other cards in the deck want the opposite. With this I also wont to share a card that can save you if you have a deck playing with your life points. Can I recommend the Phial of Galadriel. it is only in 9 Marchesa, the Black Rose decks and is played too little in decks. More respect to 3 mana manarocks

[@Raw_Skilllz]

A nonbo I have is in my Anim Pakal deck. I have Reckless Fireweaver to deal damage when my commander makes artifact creatures token. It’s also a good turn 2 play to get my commander’s attack trigger on turn 3. But I also play Divine Visitation. The tokens won’t be artifacts anymore, but having a bunch of 4/4 tapped and attacking flyers is too good.

[@hobez64]

Had a moment in my Savra build I'm doing. Adding Skullclamp is a nonbo with Savra because Savra won't trigger from the thing dying from 0 toughness, but Skullclamp is just THAT good that it's okay

[@markocelenkovic]

I'd say that for the most part if you just have 2 specific cards in the deck that nonbo thats totally fine assuming the 2 individually are worth it in the deck. The chance you end up with both cards on the battlefield is so low, considering this is a 100 card singleton format, and presumably either card individually on the battlefield will be very good for you. The chance of these nonbos actually occuring is just so low, and even when you do find both of the cards the nonbo generally will not be game losing. For example, with Verdant Suns Avatar and Rampaging Ferodcidons you just lose the lifegain from Avatar, which in the grand scheme of things is not that bad, especially since you still have the Ferocidons pinging everyone! For every 1 time you aren't able to gain life, theres prb at leats 10 other times where you gain a ton of life with Avatar, and 10 other games where you ping your opponents with Ferocidons. I'd say the you start considering taking out nonbos when they nonbo with multiple cards in your deck, or when it nonbos with the commander. The more cards a card nonbos with, the more often you'll find these nonbos in games. Going back to the last example the nonbo was fine because there was only 1 Ferocidon to prevent the lifegain, meaning this scenario rarely came up, but if lets say hypothetically there was 10 Ferocidons in our deck all of a sudden Avatar gains us life way WAY less often, and now all of a sudden it will rarely actually do what we want it to do. Obviuously this is not a real scenario, but there are times where a card might conflict with your whole strategy in general. If you're running a card that hates on equipment, and yet you ARE and equipment deck, thats when I'd heavily consider taking out the nonbo. Additionally cards that nonbo with your commander are usually bad, since you'll always see you commander. If the other examples we talked about what your chance of drawing the nonbo is, but you'll always have access to your commander. So whenever you draw the card that nonbos with your commander, theres a very good chance that your commander will be on the field, and in that case the nonbo will come up way more often To sum up this blurb that certainly go way longer then I expected, I would simply analyze how often the nonbo would come up. If theres a very low chance of the nonbo occuring, it should be fine. If the nonbo will come up more often then you'd like, then maybe don't run it. Most nonbos aren't gonna be gamebreaking and lose you the game, and usually will be fine to draw, its just a matter of how often they'll be messing up your gameplan and how often they'll derive from your main gameplan.

[@josephmiller9881]

My collector will keep my Selvala from going infinite, but its in a Yisan deck so i can always fetch a way to get rid of the artifact hate. I haven't used my genisis wave to pull into worldslayer for a board whipe yet, but that's going to get some looks from the play group lol

[@semicolon_cancer1243]

I run void mirror a lot more than I used to due to the free cast commander spell reprints... Which I also run. But I'd rather have the protection from fierce/deflecting/etc as a rule. Plus cascade/discover shenans are getting out of hand. May stop me from free casting flawless maneuver but it's worth it.

[@thetogtube2]

Mikeaus and The Great Henge in my Henzi deck. The lifegain and card draw is just too good on the Henge. But tempted to take it out bc the deck draws so many cards as is.

[@pauldyson8098]

Colossus Hammer in Ardenn/Esior is hilarious: Esior can "carry" the hammer but can't fly with it. Birb be like "Come over here and let me whack you with this here hammer." I personally hate nombos and I actively try to remove them, but Hammer Birb is so iconic that I just can't cut it (plus, you know, being able to two-shot someone is pretty good).

[@ANitschkeProduction]

But if you have a way to give it flying after holding the hammer.

[@manolismauroudis2084]

I have one nonbo, in my k'rrik son of Yawgmoth deck, heartless summoning gives all my creatures -1/-1 and blood celebrant has 1/1 stats but, both cards are amazing on the deck

[@beurtalvarez]

I remember cutting my containment priest from my Kyler deck, since the deck plays a lot of blink or flicker effects, and CP does screw me up if I blink my board as mean of protection

[@narvuntien]

I have a "you must play fair" deck that some people call stax. It has rest in peace and until recently the original Tamiyo whos powerful ultimate was a win condition but doesn't work with RIP in play. I took out Tamiyo to play more of a flash deck and not because of RIP. I also finally decided to actually put in Sol Ring and Arcane signet despite the deck playing Stony Silence, those cards are kind of just too strong. Part of this was driven by swapping from my university games club where games had no time limit to my LGS with 50 min rounds where I need to speed up my ability to actually win the game. I win by beating people to death with my commander unenhanced.

[@brndnwilliams42069]

Reality chip with sensei’s and Counterbalance is great but I run Grafdiggers Cage also

[@J3P]

My Ojutai deck has an exalted subtheme. I have a 3 mana cascade enchantment in the deck so I took out almost every 2 mana counterspell and removal spell so as to avoid the whiff. But there are some i just can't remove and I pray every time I cast the cascade spell I won't hit them :p

[@mrTjstephens1]

Yawgmoth's Will and Necropotence are in my Erebos god of the dead.

[@Lazersword88]

In my Karametra landfall deck, Yasharn prevents the treasures that Tireless Provisioner creates from being sacrificed.

[@eternaleclypse]

In my rogue mill deck, I run Bloodchief Ascension and Dauthi Voidwalker. Thought about changing it, but the positives are too good.

[@dustinsanity85]

I have a hard time seeing the need for "Of Herbs and Rabbit Stew" in my Farmer Cotton list, because the deck doesn't care at all about how big a creature gets, and other effects put so many more food tokens out there en masse it actually feels like a mistake to cast. I thought it was required. It says "Halfing Token" and "Food Token" twice on the card. Why wouldn't I play it? It's a nonbo with the entire list, is why. It's too slow at everything it does and doesn't work toward my strategy with the same tempo as anything that could replace it in that 3 card slot, so I took it out for Kutzil. Now I can Tooth and Nail entwine in peace.

[@Cybelenn]

In my werewolf deck I have Steely resolve which gives my werewolves shroud which means if my commander is flipped I can't give any werewolves trample and plus x

[@dizzynarutofan100]

Whispersilk cloak goes into my voltron deck as a finisher. It may sit in my hand until im at 11+ double strike. 3:10

[@maxleveladventures]

I have an Esika // Prismatic Bridge deck and I’m experimenting with cutting Apex Devastator because it does nothing when it is put onto the battlefield. But, it has also done wild shit in the deck and can be a banger draw when Esika has been removed enough times that make it hard to play. I also have decent card draw, so it’s more likely that I draw the card and Apex can get me so far ahead. But I’m already wanting to put it back in even though I haven’t yet played a game without it. The downside is also not terrible because it’s still a free 10/10.

[@MomirsLabTech]

You can look at it like this: a free 10/10 is still VERY good. When it is cast, it is obscene. The floor is probably still worthy in an Esika deck if it is focused on playing big dudes. Play the dang Devastator! 😊

[@maxleveladventures]

@@MomirsLabTech I feel seen! It’s going back in! 😂

[@lokumo13]

Damn, that like at 09:25.

[@atticusdanielson7198]

My elves deck is led by belbe even though it has effects that ping opponents whenever an elf dies encouraging them to attack me but I just like belbe 🤷‍♂️

[@SimWOT]

I wonder what’s the probability of drawing two specific card in a 100 card singleton. Moreover, for a nonbo you assume both card get played and stick on the board at the same Time. As long as it doesn’t nonbo with the commander, it’s probably fine.

[@jamesw7426]

Ghyrson starn(commander) and City on Fire

[@seanedgar164]

My Yasharn deck has this for sure, pumping kamahl fist of krosa's overrun is a wincon but if my lattice lock with collector ouphe is in play I can't use it

[@seanedgar164]

Fyi my landfall payoffs and other stax effects are still good through lattice. Felidar retreat and recurring creatures/lands with sun titan

[@alainpbat3903]

All my nonbos are flavor wins, like deliver onto evil

[@andariousrosethorn]

I'm ways a lot more likely to run a nonbo if I have a way to trade it for some other effect should it be more of a hindrance for me than my opponent(s).

[@capnsoapy]

Mutate doesn't work on humans so I try desperately not to run any in my Otrimi deck, but Volo's synergy is enough that it's worth it

[@pittorivers906]

Kamahl's Druidic Vow in my Jodah, the Unifier deck is sort of a nonbo. It's amazing as the deck obviously has so many legendary cards in it, but feels TERRIBLE if you cascade into it (which at 2 mana is quite possible) and have to cast it at x=0

[@maxleveladventures]

I ran into the same issue with trying to build an x-cost Zaffai deck, but also wanting to run lots of cascade. Sadly, I just had to cut the cascade effects :(

[@timbombadil4046]

I always used “nonbo” as a term for a combo that doesn’t actually work. If cards stumble over each other it’s just anti synergy. Not gatekeeping, just think the different ways we internalize terms is interesting. It certainly can contribute to misunderstandings if we’re not careful to appreciate it.

[@Spike-hl2mw]

Yea, like I don't think it makes sense to say "this destroy all creatures board wipe is a nonbo in my creature deck" because of course it is, you usually run board wipes for situations where you're ok with losing your creatures if it means your opponents lose all of theirs too. Real nonbos are the cards you think combo well but actually don't, often because of some easy-to-miss rules interaction.

[@MackRangerPower]

I want Akromas memorial in my zombie deck but I know it’s not the most efficient finisher

[@silastallio2932]

Can you not just pay the equip cost (0) for lightning greaves to take them off a creature?

[@EvolutionSTUD10S]

Avoiding a nonbo assumes you’re always going to have those cards interact. If it doesn’t nonbo your commander it’s totally fine to play.