Niche vs Open-Ended Commanders | EDHRECast 205

Some commanders are super versatile, while others practically build themselves! Time to find out the commanders with the highest and lowest amount of variance in the entire format!
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[@mfitkin]

I’m proud of arcades players, we brewed him out of the top 10 least variance

[@SSolemn]

hahhahaahaaha yeah! Proud of my Wall full defense one xD

[@scottmelero4437]

Dana's hipster deck building inspired me to scrap my Jhoira artifact storm deck and build an Amareth artifact etb/storm deck as soon as I saw it spoiled. Loving it so far!

[@ultimateretroasd]

Full honest , many of the low variance in the new precon commanders could be not just because the precon efffect, but the "Upping the average" effect as well. What I mean is that a huge chunk of people just don't usually have the time to spend in brewing, so Joey's videos are taken as a best possible way to go without considering further improvement or future changes. Joey, your videos are great and I love them (A week without one of your videos actually hurts), but in this particular case you lead a good part where some deck variance go

[@8bit_outcast708]

Well said! I was literally thinking the same thing. I know in the past, when I was building a new EDH deck, I used this channel to get an idea of what is done with the average list. I have also seen almost carbon copies to some of the list on the channel at my LGS. I love the content you all put out though. You can really help inform people on a new Commander idea.

[@camj1758]

Your commentary, level of description and analysis has definitely been a teaching point for me when explaining such concepts to new players, or even younger people. Simple, clear and relevant. Love it!

[@StevenBryceWroten]

One thing I kind of like about a lot of low variance commanders is that while your deck might be similar to other decks with that commander, that deck will likely be quite different from other decks around you and may be more niche in general.

[@Solemnyty]

I literally went and listened to the last episode you did on this subject yesterday while I was at work. So to see this one pop up today while I was working was quite a weird coincidence! Lol.

[@nickleewright]

Yay for your podcast coming out on time for my lunch! (I wasn't the one to change my clock... you were).

[@nickleewright]

Probably a pretty big hint where I live.

[@vasylpark2149]

Nice to see the lovely three again. Edit: I too would like to be offered a mutate offer that I don't understand.

[@HomeCookinMTG]

One thing you guys didn’t mention about Strefan is that he also deals with blood tokens, which there aren’t a lot of good cards that make them.

[@ThisIsACommanderChannel]

One of my favorite things to build popular commanders, especially when they first release, and use old cards that I own that aren't exactly good but they still synergize with the commander's effects. I love when people see these cards played and the effects blow their minds. I also try to play as many of my old border foils as I can in my decks, so I'll actively pull good cards from my decks just for my retro cards.

[@kingfuzzy2]

I use underplayed cards in good and bad commanders it's always a good feeling when someone swears and grabs one of my cards to understand what it does

[@piralos1329]

Dauthi Embrace also has neat utility in making certain creatures not be able to block, which can be relevant!!

[@mattc4284]

I made a golem tribal “baunt” deck a while ago. I ended up using chulane as the commander, but I’m definitely going to switch to Amareth now

[@dominusanimus5726]

4 color golems! Precursor golem is bae.

[@Bongus_Bubogus]

Twizzlers are made of the tire debris you see on the side of the road.

[@papertiger982]

Nice challenge, Joey. I run Fruition + Yavimaya in my Willowdusk deck. I also consider Urborg + Roots of Life. If you have Vito or Sanguine Bond, it does so much damage to your opponents as well.

[@JackJackrabbit]

for prosper a bit less than half the decks are (2710/5426 at this moment) are treasure decks, then the exile decks fill up a huge chunk (2231) of the remaining half, makes sense that roughly half of your cards will be things others are using.

[@happybrain2674]

Its insanely good to have big variants for the same commanders and im a big fan of having the opion build them the way you want. But in case of the opposite, it still have variants and still are fine cause they play something that is very nishe itself and outside of that is enough option to build it the way it feels like you build it.

[@michaelroy1175]

Amareth Blink is one of the wildest decks I've played against.

[@yes.thatjanedoe]

Man Matt really took off with the plane wordplay and puns

[@valiantcoffee]

For popular cedh commanders, 66% similarity makes a lot of sense. A lot of decks have the same cards due to the best interaction or the best win con for that strategy being pretty clear. The only reasons you'd see deviance from a typical list is usually for meta calls, budget, or testing a new strategy. But the bulk of cards in cedh are interaction and fast mana, both of which have pretty much been figured out with regards to what's the best/not.

[@BDbiogamer]

as the absolute hipster deckbuilder of my playgroup, I am feeling a STRONG call from Amareth now. I've wanted to build something around her for a while 'cause of how open-ended she is, but somehow knowing just how versatile she is on the database as well has emboldened me to put something together :3

[@kovala]

Dana's opening joke this week was pure fire. Also super pumped Amareth got the spotlight for a moment. She's a beatiful Baant (Joey pronunciation) beast.

[@kingfuzzy2]

The new kamigalalala cards are perfect with her finally was inspired to build her by that set.

[@ColorwaveCraftsCo]

It is so interesting to see how this data has changed over time.

[@kingfuzzy2]

Hopeing to see some hot jank so I can be proud of all of the other johneys out there since jank is my favorite thing to build

[@Trigger1247]

I'm actually surprised at how high variance kaalia is I've looked at several decks on edgrec and no two kaalia decks really play the exact same line up of creatures it's kind of cool

[@kingfuzzy2]

There is other ways to build kadena like manifesting your favorite tribe like fun guys and turning into an aminatou-ey value and blink shenanigans deck.

[@telekin13]

Wait...... is that a drag race quote..... in my magic content??? Someone explain immediately!!! And also I require more.... please and thank you

[@seanbrown2201]

That was some great BANTer.

[@SeraphSilverstar]

Thumbs up Matt!! Red Vines > Twizzlers!

[@shondralyon-brown1603]

I would suspect with all of the new Samarui we got in Neon Dynasty Godo's list may change up just a bit. I think this would also go for Depala with Adventures in the Forgotten Realm and Neon Dynasty....

[@DaveyDAKFAE]

Honestly it should be called out that Vehicles make for homogeneous decks. 2 of the 7 commanders that mention vehicles in their textbox show up on the top 10 most homogeneous. That's way higher than the 3 tribal decks out of 100 tribes (many with multiple commanders) listed on edhrec

[@FakeDonut]

Maybe that's just me but I found it surprisingly difficult to build Kestia correctly. She draws cards for each attacking enchantment or enchanted creature, so more go wide that tall, gods work well with her, but then auras is another viable strategie. Putting bot together leaves less room for all the good enchantresses and Bogles, and enchantment support like the Archon of Sun's grace is also there. The Version I have right now is a confused mess of a go wide beatdown deck with gods, but it's rather difficult to find a focus...

[@brandotheone]

I like the new title better, with the old title I was expecting commanders with the same play pattern vs "everytime is a new game" commanders.

[@kaidimino9858]

I hardly ever align with Matt, but I’ll stand on that redvines hill

[@dimitrisalisafakis9054]

I build unique decks all the time. I like to combo cyclonic rift with island. Smothering tithe with plains. Dockside extortionist with mountain. Super fun, not oppressive cards for casual play, full of intuition.

[@JustABrokenToy]

found this episode while I was looking up data on Colfenor. one thing I find when building decks is that I go into it seeing various directions/themes for the deck, but ultimately I need to cut it down to just a few. playing decks the way you want to play them really resonated with this example, and it turns out I'm a dirty degenerate combo player because my first thought with Colfenor was how to abuse cards that ETB with +1/+1 counters but technically have 0 toughness when in the graveyard. things like Stonecoil Serpent, Ugin's Conjurant, Shifting Wall, and Clockwork Beetle plus Ashnod's Altar = profit. so I'm jamming as many redundant effects as possible alongside aristocrats, other death triggers (Pawn of Ulamog, Sifter of Skulls), and reanimation effects. but I could see players building treefolk tribal or generic toughness matters, leaning heavier into reanimation or actually having a toughness curve for their creatures (rather than mine, which is mostly 0's).

[@jeffbell7664]

I have to wonder how much of the overlap occurs in the mana base? Was that taken into account? And how would that impact the numbers?

[@ss5gogetunks]

Thelon of Havenwood sets out to ensure there is a humongous fungus among us

[@macs.9644]

So happy to see Amareth. I pulled them from a pack and instantly liked them. Haven't bothered with them as a commander but I instantly threw into Ur-Dragon because free top card peek and just generally great value.

[@themadgamer4571]

I was hoping to atleast hear about Vial Smasher as a high variance deck. Definitely should run a good amount of rakdos staples but besides that, you can build him however you want. Dealing damage playing whatever cards you want. I have a partner grixis commander with him and ludevic and its one of my favs.

[@ss5gogetunks]

That riveting joke earned you a like!

[@LunarWingCloud]

While not in the top 5, I feel Riku of Two Reflections is a high variance commander. There's so many different directions you can go with him. His abilities are so open ended there's a lot of different options for how you wanna build him, my Riku deck has evolved drastically in the last 4 years

[@Torsav]

I love Fruition! Run it in Dina and then just run damage for life gain effects.

[@telisabeth]

Does Fruition create as many instances of the gain 1 life trigger as there are forests in play at the time?

[@Torsav]

@@telisabeth I don't believe so. I think it's just a lump sum.

[@user-tl4ze2vq9i]

Suprised by Osgir and Prosper, there are several ways to build those

[@diggerdog9205]

My Damia deck is a landfall deck

[@danaholland6686]

How do you think the frequency of precons and new products are effecting the openededness of commanders? with more products players are less likely really dive into unique cards and combos because they are moving on to the next product quickly?

[@francescognerre2408]

regarding the overlap, is this counting lands or not? because seeing the difference when lands are counted vs not counted would be interesting (and if it is possible to aquire the data, how to do that?)

[@namvram7848]

Are Lands included in the variance score? If so, what are the rough percentages between lands and non-land cards when it comes to the impact on the variance score? Since precons are normally upgraded and not build from scratch I‘d say it’s normal they are lower variance. Moreover if you already have a good card for the strategy from a precon you‘re less likely to replace it with a slightly different card you still have to buy.

[@dapperghastmeowregard]

Not sure what you'd call it, but I run Damia as I guess Damia synergy? Like Zombie Infestation so I can discard my hand EOT and refill immediately, Elfhame Sanctuary since I'm skipping my draw step anyway, Forbid and Mists of Stagnation because friends are overrated.

[@vincent-antoinesoucy1872]

As a twizzlers enthusiast, I'm offended.

[@LeonBelmont13]

why not both? twizzlers and redvines are both fantastic... though I think redvines are the only ones you can use as straws anymore

[@CrabBaskets]

With the calculated variance, I would be very interested to see if that includes lands. Because I think that makes up a decent portion of that calculated overall variance. So if you remove the variable of lands, what would those statistics look like?

[@brandondavis6952]

Was wondering the same

[@ryanclements6937]

Man, I really hope they make some more dinosaurs that I can use for commander decks soon

[@KingJulius4]

My main takeaway from this is that you need to exclude precons from the most overlap decks.

[@musashibriem1352]

I have an Osgir deck that I bought as a precon, made some changes (~10-20 cards) then have intentionally left it alone to leave it at an “upgraded precon” power level for LGS play. Maybe this is something that impacts your data

[@sharkydart]

Are lands taken into account when considering variance between deck card inclusions, or no? I'm assuming that is currently the case. I know land differences have relevance, but am curious how the percentages look when not considering land slot differences.

[@musashibriem1352]

In regards to the variance of cEDH commanders, Ken of Stacked EDH did a great video that looked at some of the variance between decks and in the cEDH card pool, among other things. Personally, I’d love to see a collaboration to be able to dive more in depth on cEDH data on EDHREC kzbin.info/www/bejne/i2eXepaglMidi7c

[@Ashen_Chavalier]

What is Daina's joke in the beginning?

[@CubbyTv24]

Miss Vaaaaannnji!

[@verlandes1]

Shalai is my favourite deck to play.

[@crovax1375]

I fully reject the banning of Golos

[@egoish6762]

Interesting, i only ever have a maximum of 7 decks at a time, i only save and trade for cards of 3 colours and i only have one deck of each colour/pair/trio. On top of that i only use 1 copy of each card amongst all my decks barring mana producers and the occasional functionally unique cards. As a result my most competative cedh level deck has all the tutors and fast mana and then my decks sort of roll down through power levels, even with stronger commamders i avoid a lot of staples outside of 8.5+ decks as all those staples get used up fast.

[@sordieo]

My anje deck is vampire tribal with madness

[@liamshannon1652]

I think Yidris has INCREDIBLE variance but just suffers from the precon effect

[@mrpopsful]

#1 on my bucket list: Mutate a Ninja Turtle

[@mightyone3737]

I eagerly look forward to WotC's inevitable printing of the Un card 'Agitator Aunt'.

[@kingfuzzy2]

Me too thanks.

[@hermesthenerd9967]

Matt's dad joke was VERY uplifting 😂

[@ConiferCreates]

I think his career in comedy is really gonna take off

[@jasonholmes5714]

Dana, you’re very handsome. And I, too, like brewing decks that go against type.

[@kingfuzzy2]

Right on and same.

[@Knightfall8]

even if all internet kadena decks look the same, it wont matter if im the only one at the store who plays her :)

[@kellylogs2642]

Hey question for Joey concerning pronunciation of Bant: how do you pronounce can't? How bout plant, grant, chant, pants, or rant (oh hey I guess I'm on one of those right now lol)?

[@gerudo4sale861]

Give me an E. Give me a D....wait

[@dustinmartin648]

BONT 🤣

[@mtgtinfoilthaumaturge1102]

Rograhk and thrasios is the most under played edh deck ever. Only 362 lists on edhrec. Only one list playing winter and static orb.

[@fassin666]

Dana is for real handsome though 🥰

[@dreddbolt]

Sorry guys, I'm the 421st to hit the like button.

[@ITNinja99]

Alright, shut it down gentlemen. Might as well go out on a high note because no one is going to be able to top (or bottom) Dana's intro joke. Mostly because Dana is a human and you can't Mutate onto a human.

[@luckylarue7885]

I just don’t think Matt’s joke landed this time

[@gekkoga3699]

Please remove the youtube widget from the website. Seriously annoyed to have these floating heads follow me around..