EEVblog

[@helmut666kohl]

Getting a tesla coil alarm clock through all those certifications would be a nightmare...

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

So they wouldn't.

[@willh9115]

Tesla coil alarm...... y is that not a thing??? electroboom

[@pauldzim]

Love the crusty old carpenter's square that Intertek used in those photos

[@panzerschrekIOI]

When you see the UL logo it doesn't ALWAYS mean that this product has been tested by UL but that it has been built according to the UL standards. I'm a project manager for an electrical engineering contractor in Canada and we certify our product CSA (C22.2 #14-13) or UL (508), depending on the customer's requests and we self certify all of our products, of course in compliance with the standards in use. We usually get 4 surprise inspection of our products but that's about it.

[@JasonRennieWTF]

Hi Simon, is this a way to get faster and cheaper UL certification? I'd like to get my product UL certified, could your company do it?

[@Rightclick88]

I think just labeling your product with "Use at own risk" is much cheaper

[@gracefilledsoul]

Hi - thanks for making this video! It really is clear and well explained. Regulatory compliance for electronic devices gets overlooked. I work for a 3rd party lab and what I've seen are manufacturers leaving EMC testing or Electrical Product Safety testing & certification to the last minute. Some of them had to re-design everything because they were not aware of these compliance requirements per region and failed an evaluation after the first try.

[@gothroachkinski754]

Awesome to see you talking about the certification logos! As part of my job, I design and build UL 508a control panels, so I am all for more people learning about what it actually represents. It's kinda cool to have a roll of UL labels and being authorized to place them on panels I build.

[@drumbum4241]

I used to work for UL, this video brings back fun memories!

[@seeker4430]

Could you write a blog on how things work, how much things cost, hacks, negotiation techniques, some anecdotes etc...? That would be really helpful

[@Herby-1620]

UL was formed over 100 years ago by the insurance companies to help with fire prevention. Back then, fires were started by bad wiring and the like, and the insurance companies didn't want to pay the $$$ to people who had shoddy products. They formed UL to "list" things that were "safe" and thus insurable. Over the years the UL business has grown but largely does similar work. Various UL things are listed, like fire ratings for safes, and such things as light fixtures. UL is a non-profit entity which is bound by the terms of its trust. Some of this is done to prevent conflicts. I got some of this information from a guy who worked there. They have a local facility here in sillycon valley.

[@seanmartin7551]

I currently work for UL, and we're not non-profit anymore. We went for-profit some years ago. Mid 2000's if memory serves.

[@Herby-1620]

Probably true. My info dates from the 1980's. I'm sure the UL web site has more information.

[@PJ-br5cf]

@@Herby-1620 Little late to the conversation, but you're both half right. UL has two entities, one is a non-profit organization that publishes the standards, while the other (UL LLC) is a for-profit company. The latter does the testing, certification, follow-up services, etc. The company split in 2012.

[@kubeek]

What is the ess mark in top right of the dell monitor? I mean the epsilon integral s in a circle at 17:52?

[@00Skyfox]

This relates to a project I started years ago and really want to get back to. I was so fascinated by all those symbols I started tracking them down, and found dozens of them from various countries around the world. Some were even obsolete but I was able to find them anyway. If I get the project done I'll post it up on the blog for everyone's reference.

[@DrAHorn]

Some (useless?) trivia for the non-Geman speaking: "Geprüfte Sicherheit" is just German for "tested safety" TÜV is short for "Technischer Überwachungsverein" which translates to "Technical Inspection Club" (or "association" as Wikipedia calls it). There are actually a number of those "clubs" in Germany which have split the different regions up amongst them. The TÜV is somewhat (in)famous for the mandatory car safety inspections, they used to have the monopoly on doing those inspections so in a car context "TÜV" has become a synonym for the safety inspection. (As in: "Used car for sale, 1.5 years of TÜV".)

[@CrzyMan_Personal]

By the UL mark, E135742 is the UL file number for that specific product

[@jam99]

You say ask a testing house. But they have a vested interest to sell you as many tests as possible. How do you determine what tests you actually NEED?

[@georghieronymus9935]

Would be cool to see what goes on inside of one of these cert labs. Or how getting a cert fits into the product development life cycle. When do you need to get a cert? How many? Do you apply in the early design stages or after you have a prototype? What is the finance and investment analysis procedure? This opens so many questions haha.

[@douggale5962]

When they do the tests, do they test them to destruction, or do they just apply some minimum voltages/impacts/etc? It would be fascinating to know how much voltage it takes to explode/ignite a typical multimeter, particularly one with a list of approvals.

[@ScramblerUSA]

Hi Dave! The first stamp in the second row ("PCT"-like) is a RossStandard stamp (from Russian State Standard). Just if you were curious.

[@boggisthecat]

Alexander Khritonenkov Ah. I had wondered what that one was. It didn’t occur to me that it would be Cyrillic characters. 👍

[@johncoops6897]

One fairly important error of detail... the UL or ETL mark does not mean that the UL or Intertek has actually tested the product themselves. They are certifiers, so it's misleading to say "UL Tested" or "ETL Tested" like at 8:42 - in fact it is simply "UL Listed" or "ETL Certified". They both accept test reports from 3rd Party laboratories, as well as from customer's own laboratories. services.ul.com/service/data-acceptance-program/

[@gracefilledsoul]

This is true - another 3rd party can do the testing, issue a CB certificate against a particular standard. UL or Intertek can take that CB cert / report and list it.

[@CrzyMan_Personal]

To clarify, UL is separated into two entities. The non-profit makes the standards. The for-profit does the testing.

[@michaeld9682]

But you must pay for each standard document on their website

[@JasonRennieWTF]

@@michaeld9682 no, you can dowload a digital version for free.

[@michaeld9682]

@@JasonRennieWTF ok ty. Do you have a link?

[@valimakm]

It not strictly speaking the case that all of those safety certification marks require separate testing. With harmonized standards in most cases the testing is done in accordance with CB Scheme taking the required national differences into consideration. With the CB certificate and CB test report you can apply many different safety certification marks.

[@ztechrepairs]

Very informative. I had no clue what many of these meant. Cheers.

[@MrIneffable]

Note some large corporations like to get multiple redundant certification marks on their products even though the marks mean the same thing. It may sound silly but there are reasons they do this: 1) Large OEM manufacturers sometimes sell their products to other companies that mandate a very specific mark despite the fact another angency could have done the same testing to the same standards. 2) Large companies selling millions of a product often get multiple redundant marks like cULus and cCSAus because it takes more liability off of their backs in the event something does happen. 3) It's often not that much more expensive to get the second or third redundant mark because the other agencies will often certify the product by just reviewing paperwork from the first recognized testing lab then doing minimal additional testing.

[@koppadasao]

The (N) is for Norway, although not really needed when you have TÜV mark, and the (B) is for Belgium. There is also a (S) mark for Sweden, and the TÜV mark used to be a (D) mark

[@RuneTheFirst]

Speaking of failing the tests, I remember the old round red and yellow UL stickers that where labeled "Underwriters Laboratory Re-examination Service Certified" often found on radios and televisions in the 50s and early 60s. Why they chose to point it out is unknown but it was a notice that the item had failed in its initial testing and was kind of an embarrassment for whoever had to sell that item.

[@EEVblog]

Hadn't heard of that, LOL

[@RuneTheFirst]

I'll see if I have one around here for a pic.

[@seanmartin7551]

It may have been what we now call FUS - Follow Up Service. We'll audit the factories and take random off-the-shelf product samples to ensure they're still compliant.

[@xenonram]

Sean Martin "we"

[@seanmartin7551]

Andrew Delashaw I work there.

[@Cassia-Aurea]

in fact, for most of the cert marks, You can do the tests only once, to produce so called "CB test report and certificete" then with the tests done one can apply to regulatory to issue certification marks. So You spend tens of thousands of dollars only once, then only pay for the registration fees, inspections etc. particularly, in UL it is called "global market access service"

[@fute27]

I'd like to find out when it start to be mandatory to get a certified product. I've found that product under a certain VA will not require any... if using external high voltage that is certified, feeding DC it should not need any certificate.. (for Canada at least...)

[@MikeBramm]

Thanks for the information Dave. But I've always wondered what they really used for? Do they mean that the product can/cannot be sold in a particular country? Or is the consumer supposed to know that they shouldn't use a product unless it contains a certain mark for their particular country? I get that they can understand that the manufacturer has spent thousands of dollars getting the testing done, but how do they know which marks apply to them and their protection? In the U.S., a general rule is that if it's not UL listed, it might not be safe for use. But is that really the case if other testing agencies are doing the same tests? It really gets confusing for the consumer as to why all these marks are on the product.

[@EEVblog]

As I said, it depends on the country and the type of product. If it's a multimeter then there is no requirement in any country to have ti UL or ETL tested.

[@azimyth1542]

What are your thoughts on UL changing from a non-profit to a for-profit LLC in 2012? Do you think that change could affect their ability to make impartial testing standards/results?

[@benespection]

TÜV is not just German - Lots of non-German manufacturers in Europe will still use TÜV because they're the UL equivalent in the region (they're the giant in the field) and European standards are normalised like AU/NZ or US/CA are in order to simplify trade. No wonder UL are trying to enter the market - I've never see an UL logo with "EU" on it on a European product in the wild.

[@KeenanTims]

TÜV is german. As Dave explained if you'd watched the video, they are a (German) testing laboratory company that certifies equipment to various and sundry global standards which they do not set.

[@FireballXL55]

The UL listing number on the monitor you show E135742 is not recognised, neither is the Kodak unit E175856. But the E302944 is registered to SHENZHEN FLYPOWER TECHNOLOGY CO LTD. I used to use this info to look at the public documents which were very often useful.

[@joesmith-je3tq]

Just an FYI. At 4:30 you mention the IEC 61010. It's not specific for multi-meters but is rather made up of several standards. 61010 is the general requirements for several different types of equipment. There is one specifically for handheld meters that refers to the general standard. I believe that one is part 2-033.

[@joesmith-je3tq]

Oops, 7:00 in.... Watch then post. lol.

[@roklesnik4751]

Yep that's true. But you also need to comply with general standard. IEC 61010-1 is very interasting because it has a lot of part 2 standards with particular requiritments for different type of devices.

[@doppelhub]

FYI: Large companies can self-certify their own products, as long as they have a completely separate engineering team, in-house testing capability (verified by UL), and have a complete documentation process.

[@JohnRunyon]

Sadly, a lot of customers here in the US will only accept UL marks, and not the significantly cheaper equivalents from other NRTLs. :(

[@KellyPerazzolo]

Great stuff Dave. Thanks for the info.

[@Conservator.]

Nice example of how trade agreements between countries/markets can save costs. By accepting foreign test authorities manufacturers don’t have to let there products be tested by every test laboratory in every single country.

[@redtails]

the worst part is that there's so much fakes out there, to the consumer these markings don't actually make a difference. In a single home, you'll find dozens of items with fake markings

[@danpayerle]

All of the country specific marks are nothing but revenue generation - a “tax” disguised as a safety requirement. In my experience in certifying our products, the various Latin American and Asian country standards are duplicates of existing UL, FCC or CE requirements. We just need to pay a local test house and in some cases a government fee to sell our products in those countries. Imagine the revenue generated when every electronic product sold into a country costs the manufacturer a few thousand dollars! There’s no technical reason that an existing UL, FCC, CE standard/certification can’t be used to meet local regulatory requirements.

[@hannybassem4818]

For powersupply what i should look for saftey and long life spam

[@OnlyNotes]

I remember AvE saying in previous videos that tools with the UL mark were generally better than those with the ETL listing. He also tends to write off ETL listed tools as _NFG_ before they get out of the box... So, is one really better than the other? I know they're the same standards on paper, but is one agency easier to clear, or takes less time to process?

[@EEVblog]

They test to the same standard

[@FennecTECH]

What about the DELL one. What does that logo mean?/

[@AndreasA.S.]

that it may fail within a year?

[@NelioSmix]

Andreas Stevens you clearly have no idea about the quality of DELL products...

[@vgamesx1]

Nélio Oliveira So... Six months then?

[@xenonram]

Nélio Oliveira Yea, Dell computers are definitely by far the best. That's why almost every school, university, gov't agency, etc in the U.S. uses them.

[@NelioSmix]

I wasn't even thinking of that because that is just because they probably have contracts with the governments. They don't make only computers...

[@ReadySetGoPictures]

Any updates coming on the custom LCD?? Great vid as always!

[@EEVblog]

Yes, LCD is being shipped.

[@Lordniksidor]

Good on ya Dave, Bobby dazzler!

[@mmorena2787]

Great video Dave. The easiest way to figure out this complicated mess is just to speak with a lab! They will help you figure out what you need to do for your given product. People get so stressed ok this stuff, just speak with an expert, a quote is free.

[@EEVblog]

Indeed, just talk your local test house, preferably before your final design.

[@jernejkurincic9050]

I've been looking at SIQ mark all the video and I could hardly believe my eyes: it's a slovenian certification agency. I never thought they test things globally.

[@roklesnik4751]

I work at the SIQ in Ljubljana (capital of Slovenia). We also have some other test labs around the Europe and representatives around the world. We are acctually quite big and our certifiicates have just the same value as those issued by UL, VDE, CSA ...

[@evefavretto]

Since the video is about the UL and mentions some Latin American countries, another mark that may appear is the Anatel one, for Brazil, specially if the device in question emits radiofrequency, like a phone or laptop, is a phone charger or battery(although usually only devices for the Brazilian market contains the mark, since a lot of those are assembled in Brazil). That also reminds me that the paperwork for the Raspberry Pi 3B(that has a blue PCB!) that was submitted to Anatel homologation(since in Brazil some testing house do the tests and Anatel just checks and approves) was done by UL. www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspberry-pi-brazil/

[@MatthewSuffidy]

Why isn't is UW and not UR? Unless it just sort of sounds that way. If you had like 6 certifications, and the 6th one needs a revision, do you have to retest the revision with the other 5? Or maybe just make matching versions for approved countries, suggesting the 6 certifications are stamped on?

[@YCbCr]

Underwriters Registered? Just guessing though.

[@NetworkXIII]

My $2 Harbor Freight DMM has the CE mark on the case .. hey, was the Gigatron computer certified in any way?

[@EEVblog]

CE is not hard to pass on a multimeter that operates on fea power

[@TheStefan665]

and what exactly happens if you try to sell a product without the certifications? will major retailers refuse your product? what if you had your own store and you sold it directly to consumers? how would the state even know about it and what would they do if they found out? i mean... i guess if someone burned his house down because of your product, the insurance company could sue you to recover their money... but, is there more to it?

[@EEVblog]

You can get refused import by customs, fined by consumer safety groups etc, and yes retails can and in theory should refuse to offer your product for sale.

[@wuslon70]

GS means "Geprüfte Sicherheit" or tested (for) safety. A testing lab like TÜV or Intertek, Eurofins, Dekra (...) must meet high standards and must accredited in many fields (some are mandatory, some are not) in order to be able to issue a "GS" mark. Unlike other certifications GS is based on German legal requirements, in this case the requirements of §21 ProdSG (product safety act). The GS mark is the only one (in EUrope) which is regulated by law. Although the GS mark was once designed with the German market in mind, it apperas on a large number of products all around the world. GS marks have to appear with the sign or logo of the issueing notified body (in your cas it's TÜV Rheinland, but it also be Eurofins-GS or Dekra-GS. One has also to bear in mind, that the CE mark is issued for the singing of a declaration where in contrast a GS is only issued after the product has been successfully testedt against German/European standards by a state-approved independend (notified) body. And yes - I deal with this kind of stuff on a daily basis and didn't go nuts yet. :-)

[@MrIneffable]

The RU UL recognized component mark can be a huge "gotcha". It basically just means the component has had some partial testing done on it. A recognized component is usually far from being a certified component. If you're engineering a widget and selected a recognized component vs a certified one, you could be getting yourself into a big mess if you don't find out from the component manufacturer what sort of testing was done on the part. It's not uncommon for a recognized component to have practically nothing tested. That means you'll have to fork over big bucks when certifying your widget to finish any applicable tests that weren't performed when the component got "recognized". If you select a certified component for your widget, very good chance the agency certifying your widget will review the report and accept the component without further testing on that one part. This can be a huge time and money saver.

[@DelphiTheDolphin]

TÜV: Technischer ÜberwachsungsVerein = technical supervisory association. It dates back to 1866 as it started as "Dampfkessel-Revisions-Vereins" (steamboiler revision association) but it got famouse under the TÜV-brand as a car-inspection authority in Germany where you go for MOT-like checks.

[@LeoGitarzysta]

On that Dell PSU there is even a polish safety "B" mark - the B in a triangle. We used before Poland entered the EU to certify safety standards according to polish norms, after entering EU these we harmonized with european regulations and the mark was replaced by the usual "CE" mark, now this mark is purely optional. Now you won't find that on Dell hardware, even on one made in Poland. So I bet the PSU must be a bit dated ;)

[@dewickt]

Certification doesn't make a poor design work, just safe ...

[@EEVblog]

Indeed.

[@andrewwhite1793]

Terry DeWick If it's a complex product with expensive testing, make the changes, do your internal testing and submit changes documentation to the test house. Negotiate what needs to retested, and pay your money for the re-test work.

[@josephnealeUKscratchcards]

Awesome video as always

[@justinklrjms]

Manufactures can be certified to do the UL testing on their own products in house so they are not always third party tested.....hmmm.....

[@p_mouse8676]

They really should find an easier way of getting these. For a startup this really can ruin your whole budget. Nice video, I personally would have made a little more clear that you don't always need all these tests or certifications. For example a laptop or computer builder doesn't need to re-certify again. So in many cases you can get away with already certified parts. Also, maybe more important, companies CAN do the tests themselves or prove with proper arguments that you will meet a certain standard. In the end it's your responsibility, if somebody sues you (you will have a big problem)

[@EEVblog]

I think I said twice that type approvals aren't always compulsory.

[@p_mouse8676]

EEVblog . Yes thats true. I was more talking about some examples maybe. Also i didnt completely follow if you meant compulsory in a sense of which country a product is being used or that a company can do their own tests? Wasn't completely clear to me. But great subject btw, there is always a lot of confusion about these things.

[@EEVblog]

Testing yourself is called pre-compliance, but you can't UL or ETL test yourself and use the logo. You can do that for CE and others though.

[@johnfrancisdoe1563]

Piet Muijs In many cases a single lab can award multiple marks in one go. Either because of "recognition arrangements" where a government agency accepts tests from various foreign laboratories, or because multiple old test labs are now the same company. For example, UL bought the test activities of the former Danish Electrical Inspection agency (DEMKO), and may thus be able to award a (D) certification mark, which used to mean that a product was tested to Danish national requirements rather than generic European requirements. EU now allows so few national differences in rules the government decided they didn't need to own their own test lab anymore.

[@MedSou]

thanks for the explanation 👍👍👍

[@GfastGao]

Great & Useful vid again. Thx David, You are really cool.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

So what on earth does the backwards RU mean ?

[@TheChipmunk2008]

I see youtube didn't publish my update... thanks for clearing that up Dave. Still don't think american standards are worth much tho. Means to me 'it's been tested not to catch fire in our lab over a short time'

[@helmut666kohl]

It stands for "In soviet Russia device certifies you".

[@seanmartin7551]

The testing is pretty rigorous. I can't speak for the electronics, but on the fire safety side of things some of those tests are pretty brutal.

[@xenonram]

TheChipmunk2008 They all use the same tests. (Or variations of the same test.) So your point is moot.

[@proudtobewhiteprivileged9530]

it may mean russia union bribes paid.

[@guguru]

GS = Geprüfte Sicherheit = tested safety (used in Germany)

[@lescrossan27]

The UK has the BSI Kitemark along with new Commonwealth standards which is going to crop up a lot more again from next year I suspect... but has been around since 1902. I'm surprised that no attempt has been made in having a *single* UN or *single* worldwide standard as the array of approval standards you have to wade through is bewildering! And even then it's not enforced as is shown by the amount of deathtrap Chinesium there is out there :(

[@EEVblog]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. xkcd.com/927/

[@jeffreyhueseman7061]

I loathe the monthly inspection that UL requires on control panels I build.

[@Henchman1977]

Any love for the Canuck CSA?

[@EEVblog]

W00T

[@MrIneffable]

Except CSA has been steadily moving operations to countries outside of Canada. I believe they now have more offices and employees outside of Canada than within. Note they even changed their name years ago to CSA International.

[@ChongMcBong]

CE stands for Caveat Emptor :)

[@CotyRiddle]

I thought that meant china export.

[@gblargg]

Same thing.

[@leocurious9919]

China export, clearly.

[@rasimbot]

12:59 | The leftmost in the middle vertically is Ростест -- Rostest, Russian certification

[@thomasgaliana6288]

Very informative. Thank you.

[@EEVblog]

No worries.

[@FoxMccloud42]

it's not spoken T U V, it's spoken in one word (problem for non german speaker is to say the letter Ü, its actualy TÜV, technischer Überwachungs Verein). And there is also dekra as I know who also does certification that products complies with standarts, but I could be wrong.

[@EEVblog]

So how do you pronounce it as one word?

[@clazy8]

EEVblog Maybe say toov and tiv at the same time.....

[@DrAHorn]

Actually the "Ü" is pronounced with a sound that doesn't exist in English. (Same in "fünf" (== five)...) You could listen to the example for "die TÜV-Plakette" at: dict.leo.org/englisch-deutsch/T%C3%9CV (the small gray play button next to the text), there they say the whole phrase but the part in the middle is how TÜV is pronounced in German.

[@FoxMccloud42]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/o16sdoB5m6l_e7s

[@romsthe]

German Ü is the same as french U if you already know. The real trap is the german V which is essentially an F. So it's tough to pronounce TUF

[@smoothjamie4046]

If your interested have a look at IEC 60079-11 (intrinsic safety) and see what it takes to get even such a simple device such as a torch approved for explosive atmospheres! very interesting, and very strict testing.

[@JGnLAU8OAWF6]

So, here is my question: what if you would update the PCB revision, would you then need to start all this testing from scratch?

[@EEVblog]

Depends on what you change.

[@lachlanmccutcheon1655]

Love your videos I am an ME worked at Eaton Corp (Breakers / Switch gear RD) (previously Westinghouse) UL Doesn't actually test shit. They Charge Manufacturers thousands & thousands of dollars to watch you test your own stuff per your specification The UL is an extortion organization

[@rimmersbryggeri]

The lokgo is veri similar to Uppsala Länstrafik. The the public transportation company in uppsala sweden.

[@tigrafrog]

"Personal Prejudice": handle something with ETL mark: "oh Fuuuuu.. Well, at least it will not kill me if I handle it with care". handle something with UL (Canada) mark: "ok (still handle it with care)". All power supplies that intended to use 24/7 around me is UL listed. Many from thrift stores, all working good. I did not choose them specially based on UL, just somehow ETL listed devices/power supplies dies more quickly.

[@EEVblog]

They both test to the exact same standard. Your data means something else.

[@tigrafrog]

Yep, done exactly that. My trusted MeanWell used and slightly abused for 3+ years now. ..and it's UL listed :)

[@MrIneffable]

EEVblog That's the theory but it's never 100% equal. ETL is a for profit organization while UL and CSA are not for profit. Can you guess which company and their engineers are more likely to play the risk analysis game to improve their profits? Nonetheless, I would still rather have an ETL certified device plugged into the wall than an uncertified AliExpress knockoff with a CE mark.

[@userPrehistoricman]

I bet you think you're so cool with your markings. My power supply doesn't even have a CE.

[@michelmolleman]

Thumbs up if Dave should post some of his bloopers during recording video’s.

[@EEVblog]

I have, you can see one if you subscribe to my Patreon.

[@ozisnice]

How can you spot a fake logo?

[@AKATEATime]

I want to work for one of those places. Imagine the cool stuff you'd get to play with.

[@MrIneffable]

Tim Adams Yes, you'll get to see the latest and greatest stuff before it hits stores. You even get to destroy them all. Only catch is that you'll spend hours and hours writing reports documenting all that destruction....boohoo

[@AKATEATime]

MrIneffable ok, never mind. Heh

[@ElmerFuddGun]

You have to admit the *CSA* mark looks the best! And the *DELL* mark just means it is nonstandard junk! 0:47 ;-)

[@GRBtutorials]

Other marks: the *HP* mark means different things depending on what kind of device it is. If it's on a printer, it means it's a good one. If it's on a piece of test equipment, that means it's crap since it's a fake one (Hewlett and Packard didn't want the brand being called "HP" and Agilent was spun off before they died). But if it's on a computer, it means the same as the *Acer* , *DELL* and *Windows* marks: nonstandard junk!

[@neilhuband995]

Just for anyone who doesn't have time to watch the video: it's Undertakers Lobotomy

[@Tim3ru]

Speaking of fcc, funny story: Just the other day I had my Li-Ion cell charger fail explosivly with a bang and a flash upon turning off an 'inductive ballast florescent tube'. (: Damage report: 2.2uf/400v cap exploded, a trace vaporised across 36mm length and deposited its copper on the case, and literally every other component smoked except for two diodes and 3 ceramic caps... no fcc or any other certification stamp found on the label, they didn't claim it to be and it wasn't compliant :))

[@AndreasA.S.]

FCC logo only required if the device is expected to transmit or receive radio band interference within a certain range. hence why the new raspberry pi radios are now under an FCC can, if you use a pi3B+ for a project you want to sell, you now dont have to get it re-certified if its not modified.

[@TAProductions020]

Your comment just made my day xD

[@girishradhakrishnan2699]

Mr. Dave, Can you review JYE Tech DSO138 Oscilloscope. Can you tell me how good it is, i think you are the right person to inspect and push a review. It is really cheap, is this a beginner friendly one? I am waiting for your reply.

[@EEVblog]

I don't review toy oscilloscopes. It's not a real scope, but it'll show waveforms of course.

[@AndreasA.S.]

in the states ('murika), you CANNOT bring non UL devices and use them in testing, building, or repairing some industrial equipment. such as automation or refinery processes. lets say you are using a meter on a panel to a motor startup control. if you have ANYTHING other than site specified approved equipment (which yes, includes the meters from dave) you can be fired and fined. the UL, like the CE logos can be faked, so you should be able to go to UL's site, and verify its listing, and what the real device should contain. cert companies follow dave's method. they dont turn it on (at first) they "tehk et apaht"

[@EEVblog]

Yeah, that's not uncommon. Standard butt covering.

[@djscrizzle]

No listing is also a violation of the National Electric Code. In an early section of the Code, it calls for the need to have every wire, device, box, etc listed, accepted, or approved for installation. A common example is NM-B (TPS, T+E, etc) will carry a UL Listing on it's package, and if US/CAN, a CSA mark too. The cable will say literally (UL) along its length, along with type, gauge, voltage rating , and certification number. Sometimes footage is included.

[@JONOVID]

so many logos nowadays, my eyes glaze over.

[@AndreasA.S.]

too many, its gotten to the point where i cant even see the voltage and current limits on a wall wart without reading glasses.

[@AndreasA.S.]

@undefined does that mean the Aussies can make antimatter?

[@todesgeber]

somebody do some hashtag or CC or dm this to AvE...jokes for days. do greatly enjoy all your vids. best wishes to you and your family there Dave. :D

[@T0TALLYRH0MBUS]

I used to work at UL!

[@robertohurtado6458]

and what happen? why you left?

[@T0TALLYRH0MBUS]

roberto hurtado it was an internship over a summer

[@robertohurtado6458]

men U are lucky

How much did you pay?

[@aabb5283]

It would be more helpful if you announced the price of those logo.

[@EEVblog]

There is no set "price", and I did mention ballpark pricing.

[@aabb5283]

I meant something like pricing guide and related expenses. That is documents , the procedure and so on. It would be really, really helpful for many of your subscribers.

[@EEVblog]

Did you watch the video? I said it can cost thousands of dollars, into the 10's of thousands. There is no "price" I can tell you, "it depends".

[@aabb5283]

Sorry, I didn't express myself properly. I meant the procedure rather, that is how to obtain in details and the payments. That is, more exact information on what it depends and how to do it properly.

[@AndreasA.S.]

its still device dependent. lets say i made a device modeled off the arduino, but i want it to be used as a PLC in a explosion proof housing. it just depends on what it is. it could cost 20 times what a version that was not gong to need that explosion proofing. the question of pricing is only to be determined by the approval house.

[@bertoid]

Standards are just wonderful. Glad to see there are so many of them. Bureaucrats gone wild...

[@LaVorAta]

5:12 Certified paper weight.

[@shakaibsafvi97]

So we spend a few 100K dollars on certifications that costs $20.... what a bunch of crap.... !!

[@shawnmccori]

You mean UL doesnt mean urinary leak?

[@emmettturner9452]

Found a Nintendo 64 recently with a NOM and NYCE sticker that you don’t see on other North American models. The serial number started with NS9 when I’ve seen a few thousand consoles and all were NS1 or NS2. Seems to be for Mexico and Central America even though I get a lot of consoles from Central American countries and never saw that sticker (I upgrade and sell these game consoles).

[@onjofilms]

Seems like it's easier to create a shell company and just sell Chinese copies :) Run Forest!

[@ElectricSlevin]

so that cyrillic YA-U...is actually a latin RU with reversed R, damn you confusing confusers lol

[@iloveTokay]

So that's why i can't find anything about ЯU in google xD

[@TheSadButMadLad]

And only those in the business will understand the logos. The general public won't. If a dodgy company plastered fake made up logos all over their product, the public will think it's safe. So in fact having too many logos could actually make things less safe.

[@mr.mythoclast4451]

German: TÜV = Technischer Überwachungs Verein GS = Geprüfte Sicherheit

[@AzureFlash]

So what are they writing under, and why don't they write over like everyone else?

[@oswaldjh]

CSA is an out dated archaic standards certification. At least back in the 1980's before UL started to be the go to standard for approval. I had to see a SMPS through CSA and visited the test site to see why we were failing some tests. Long story short, they were testing for conditions that haven't existed since Tube (valve) radios and TVs were built and did them because, wait for it, "that's the way we have always done it". Holy crap, really guys? was my response.

[@electronic7979]

Useful video

[@EEVblog]

Thanks, I was shooting for useful.

[@g36killer]

Anything that says intertek is not allowed to be plugged into my sockets. I'm not dying because someone played off there certs.

[@sgpch1983]

its not U its Ü (a umlaut).. please get it right.. thank you :)

[@zelja.]

sgpch1983 And it's not "tee you vee" - it's more like 'tiff' - or so they said to me once long time ago (i'm not german)

[@EEVblog]

You want me to say "Tee Umlaut Vee logo"? No thanks.

[@sgpch1983]

yes it would be nice if you would pronounce the umlaut correctly.. we germans would find that really nice :) thank you. and no not letter by letter but tüv as one word (which it is) :)

[@zelja.]

EEVblog I've read Australians are *the worst* in the world when it comes to languages other than english (reading, learning). I guess, geography... they have whole continent to themselves :) No need to learn any other language.

[@EEVblog]

sgpch1983 - Sorry, but no. Saying it that way it just silly. Australians don't talk like that. There are many things like that in this industry that are shortened, get used to it.

[@mdinkel]

A video explaining the CE mark versus the China Export mark would be useful, it’s bitten me a few times

[@EEVblog]

See my previous video

[@gracefilledsoul]

The CE mark is from the European Union. They have guidance to manufacturers on how to place this mark (spacing of the C & E). If the letters are too close together the CE means something completely different. In most cases if the C and E are too close it means 'Chinese Export' and not the European CE definition.

[@ddud4966]

RoHS before HoHS