EEVblog 1529 - R&S MXO4 12bit Oscilloscope Unboxing and Experiments

[@davidgunther8428]

I realized I'm not the intended market for this equipment when the "low cost, general purpose" scope probes are more than my scope budget! 😅

[@billybbob18]

Siglent and Rigol make some good stuff for the price. I think Siglent is good. I have the SDS 1104X-e and I still think it's the best bang for the buck scope anywhere. I doubled the bandwidth with a hack posted on the EEVBlog forum making it as good as the 1204X-e. It's not "great" at anything but good for everything if you know what I mean.

[@Tim3ru]

Hello from Romania Dave! Long time follower here. ( : Thank you for the awesome content! and the 'Made in Romania' shout-out, and also thank Rohde & Schwarz : )

[@SeanBZA]

Guaranteed there are at least 15 R&S UI designers and firmware designers listening to every word from Dave, and there will be a few firmware updates out soon for this, "Dave Fixes" as updates.

[@IanScottJohnston]

Dave should be officially listed alongside the other names of the folks involved in dev and testing.....LOL

[@EEVblog]

I do tend to attract bugs...

[@SeanBZA]

@@EEVblog Absolutely, you are the best test engineer around, looking for all the edge cases, and even if half of them are only a "funny that" you do get a lot of those test cases, as you do the things most users will do, just a lot faster. Just be thankful nobody has yet sent you a Therac25, that bug was a doozy....

[@FritzValentinGaming]

@@EEVblog Dave way my commentary from another account (FVEBlog) don't appear here? Verry strange. :)

[@andymouse]

@@EEVblog Lol!

[@YouKnowThisBoy]

In my first proper engineerig job there was plenty of excess equipment after the firm downsized. the front covers were great when the scopes were in storage. No risk of damaging the screens.

[@joelholdsworth]

The logic analyzer HDMI connector is a Type B "dual link" HDMI connector. It is the HDMI equivalent of dual-link DVI, though it was never used in any products.

[@lincolnworsham1085]

I do dig scope covers. I often have to pack my scope on field trips though I would not want to take that caliber of scope anywhere…

[@jennyminskey4086]

Hello, I have a high frequency noise in my home. What instrument can I use to locate where it is coming from? Thank you!!

[@clementc7297]

Dude mine is coming next week. Can't wait 😄

[@xankersmith9194]

I got see this scope back in August of last year and was so excited to see it hit the market. This is a really amazing instrument, and I'm so glad that you were able to review it :)

[@youssef8955]

Me watching this video in tears knowing I'm never going to get one 😤

[@nameredacted1242]

Why do you think I come to work???

[@mikecounsell]

@@nameredacted1242 😂

[@pauldenisowski]

R&S is hiring! That's how I got mine :)

[@youssef8955]

@@pauldenisowski well lucky you, but I'm still a student 😀

[@Rob2]

@@youssef8955 Well then it is probably not true that you are "never going to get one". At the time I was a student, there was some quite unaffordable equipment that by now is in the dumpster of for which alternatives exist that cost $100. So by the time you are 60, you probably find these thrown away or sold as scrap.

[@DEtchells]

Ok, I’m gonna make my wife watch this vid, so she’ll understand why we need a new R&S scope instead of replacing our 10 year old 2nd car 👍😆

[@RedwoodRhiadra]

Can't wait for a teardown video!

[@JohnnyMotel99]

Dare to Tear!

[@gabithehacker]

Hello from Romania! Really nice surprise to see such a nice scope manufactured here.

[@HitAndMissLab]

WOW! Dave, that's real scope!

[@Electronics-Rocks]

Hameg 60mhz was the first scope I bought back in the 89's

[@TheBananaPlug]

If you use the front cover as intended, you aren't using the scope or whatever for its intended use, best use for the cover is as a tray for drinks etc.

[@vincei4252]

The front cover piece made me laugh. I don't have the patience or organisation to take a cover off and on before and after use. RIP Hameg. My first scope in college was a 15MHz? HAMEG 205 CRT scope. I ate only baked beans for a month to be able to afford that sucker.

[@BillyONeal]

VESA mount seems like a great idea

[@EEVblog]

Every scope should have it.

[@joeyjustin6895]

GREAT VIDEO. DAVE. GREAT SCOPE THANKS FOR THE OVER VIEW .

[@sandy1653]

I rather like face plates like that. We've had a few devices do the old rapid & unscheduled self-disassembly stunt a few times and it's nice to have faceplates on equipment not in active use just in case.

[@david300m]

Great review. Takes a lot of work to just show a few features on a 25K scope. Thanks for sharing.

[@sixstringmania]

"thats not a 12bit oscilloscope , thats a 12 bit oscilloscope!" hahah , that was great haha

[@amrishhirani6096]

Really a best scope 👏 Thanks

[@yurkshirelad]

That probe costs more than my scope!

[@aaronwunderlich3070]

Tear down! 😊

[@kimbellagurl5350]

Wow thanks that was an awesome review very in-depth you cover a lot of key points definitely one to having a lab I was happy to hear you mentioned they have higher end stuff as well yes for those of us to get into specialized work but it is an amazing piece of technology hopefully there will be resolutions for those crashes it's the only thing that holds me back many times in considering software driven tools keep up the awesome work❤

[@and1424]

Matt finish! That's the way to go

[@yevhenphoenix3817]

Hi, firstly need to say that - a lot of inspiration from your videos and channels during last 7 years. Thanks for you job!!!!! Second one - WHEN You will get a R&S MXO5 ????

[@jacques6753]

The cover is good for etching PCBs :)

[@SeanBZA]

700MHz passive probe, or really "there probably is a signal there" probe, at 700MHz you better only be probing the output of a TV transmitter at 100W power output, to hope to get a decent signal without too much loading., 100R at 700MHz, really going to load things down.

[@tookitogo]

50:00 I’ve been evaluating the MXO4 in my lab, and what the single event color palette does is to basically nearly invert the intensities, so it reduces the intensity of frequent events and increased the very rare ones so they stand out.

[@christopherjackson2157]

Praise the matte finish :)

[@kevinmosgo5492]

Now that's a box opener! Love your videos, thank you so much for making them!

[@SirMo]

That's one awesome scope. I don't think I would even need a dedicated SA if I had this scope.

[@thomasmaughan4798]

2:00 Yes I am a front cover fanboy. I had one fabricated in aluminum to protect my Phillips oscilloscope in transit. Its plastic cover shattered, protected the scope but revealed a need for a stronger cover. If you never take the scope anywhere it probably is not useful or necessary.

[@cidercreekranch]

To finish you thought, "When I was a boy all scopes ..." came on a large heavy mobile cart and had round CRTs.

[@jfbeam]

Mine it's on a cart, but it does have a CRT. :-) (it's also 10MHz)

[@Eric.Swartz]

I think they sent you my scope by mistake.

[@Palmit_]

😂 thats what i was going to say!

[@GeomancerHT]

Other channels put the "paid promotion" even if things are given for free, just saying...

[@lolilollolilol7773]

@@GeomancerHT He is definitely not being paid. And I'm not sure he gets to keep it, but I guess he does, given how much free promotion they get for free.

[@GeomancerHT]

@@lolilollolilol7773 australia laws are very direct on this, it's called being paid in "species" not in cash, also if he is linking to the scope website and such, he is literally promoting it. Don't want to be hated by anyone so I will leave the subject, not my problem.

[@a4andrei]

Hello from Romania! I had no idea R&S make stuff here

[@muctop17]

Why isn’t there voice control built in? „Pls talk slower!“ 😂😂 Old ( excited) Dave‘s back! Thank you, what a party 🤭

[@peterdegelaen]

Would I put the front cover on? I can assure you that if I had this scope, and I had paid for it myself, I would definitely put it on.

[@trophosphere]

Agreed. I keep the cover on my scope when not in use because I paid mid 5 figures for it. It's definitely different when it is your money.

[@richfiles]

Heh, I'd leave that sucker off, so every photo or clip outta my lab would be showing that baby off!

[@russellslater4037]

Love it! wouldn't know how to use a fraction of it, hence watching the channel. Keep it up, thanks

[@Psi105]

Modern scopes with large screens are really nice. i got a Siglent and yeah a big screen is nicer than you expect.

[@TheDaniel85]

I'm forever spoiled by the Teledyne LeCroy WaveRunners we have at work for basic tasks... Would love to have one of these R&S at home, looks like a decent scope!😅

[@PiitaaDerbez]

Just got Keysight UXR training at work. That thing costs more than my life 😂

[@TheDaniel85]

@@PiitaaDerbez I can relate! The UXRs are nice, but vastly overkill for our basic tasks... The RF lab loves them though.

[@johnsonlam]

Tearing off the protective sheet is so exciting ...

[@joaoelias311]

Oh Dave what are you doing!? We don't turn it on; we take it apart. 😁

[@lolilollolilol7773]

Next video probably.

[@brumbymg]

Niiiiiice. Almost makes me want to drop in and say "Hi" just to see it. That SA display is brilliant.

[@EEVblog]

Yeah, it's schmick.

[@PhillipRhodes]

Channeling my inner Tron voice: "That is one big door screen." Regarding the front covers: Put me squarely in the "uses them as trays" camp. I think I only own 1 of them and it's lying on top of a box somewhere, helping a pile of random cables and other cruft balance precariously in a pile that's just awaiting a magnitude 0.0003 earthquake to tip over... an event which would necessitate me spending a whole 5 minutes cleaning and straightening to recover. But anyway....

[@ChrisRogersBrisbane]

when I bought my old TEK it came with the cover. handy when I travel with it. agree with Sean BZA too. they are listening and waiting for you to find a bug in it.

[@EEVblog]

I've found two lockups and a few bugs already.

[@ChrisRogersBrisbane]

New stuff , yep always. They will probably fix it and send an update out. As you mentioned this isn't a cheap machine to start with. I like it myself but no way i could afford one. 15 yr old Tek 3054B here.

[@MrPDawes]

Would be nice to see what the HDMI output allows you to do and what resolutions it supports. Would be cool with 42inch 4k display.

[@Galileocrafter]

We do have the MXO4 and MXO5 in the lab for testing at my work. The scopes are superb, and the memory depth is insane compared to what we currently have. But that stops once you want to save a waveform to an external storage medium for further analysis or documentation purpose.. It's slow, like reeeeeaaallly slow, it took me more than one hour to save a waveform the same size as we do on our current 20 year old oscilloscopes in less than 2 min..... I know, it's unusual to need a signal over that long of a period (up to or more than 1s) but we do actually need to document / archive the whole length of the signal, customer request ... :/

[@bar10005]

18:35 When you dragged the measurements around there was an option to dock them to the left side, presumably the same is also true for statistics tab.

[@chaitanyasindagi1237]

What's odd is when you added peak to peak for a second time at ~27:00 it showed you a duplicate measurement instead of recognizing that it was already there. Basic bug that they really should fix

[@psy0rz]

i also really dislike the ADD button. clicking those checkboxes should instantly turn those measurements on and off.

[@Chriva]

That's a real knoife you have there Dave

[@ForgottenLore]

The 30k ESRP spectrum analyser I had at work didn't have a front cover, I really wish it had.

[@edb8120]

Why is there no provision for storage of leads and such inside the front cover? At least it would have a function then.

[@JohnUsp]

LOL, I sent the link to them minutes after you release that video.

[@SpeedrunnerG55]

Those probes cost more than twice my entire scope and probes! 😅

[@serggorod1423]

More than 100s of my'ne!

[@EEVblog]

A tad pricey.

[@Rob2]

Does it have "waterfall" display mode of the FFT? Or even an "SDR" mode? (FFT mode with a tunable small bandwitdh window that gets demodulated in narrow-band modes like AM, FM, SSB)

[@mikeselectricstuff]

All that packaging could easily have been done in cardboard. Surprising for a German company.

[@0xbenedikt]

I guess at that volume and price point they don't really care to design something recyclable

[@kanetw_]

Cardboard wouldn't provide nearly the same protection as foam, especially since it's meant to be reused. It's not eco-friendly-- it's a higher risk of shipping damage (much greater possible ecological impact) + cardboard has limited reuse

[@davidgunther8428]

@@kanetw_ yeah, the waste from higher damage rate could dwarf the benefit of cardboard vs foam. At least it doesn't appear to be polystyrene foam.

[@lolilollolilol7773]

R&S has some defense business. Not sure they are super engaged into environmental stuff. Also it's not like they are going to sell millions of these.

[@BradKwfc]

Does it time out after 10 min and ask for your credit card number for their monthly subscription like everything else does these days?

[@EEVblog]

Don't give them any ideas.

[@tookitogo]

We can count our lucky stars that a lot of high-end scopes are used in environments where devices aren’t allowed to have internet access. Otherwise I think we’d already have everything subscription-based. I will say that I wouldn’t mind it if the manufacturers started offering software options as cheap, time-limited “rentals” instead of sales. So if you only need, say, 1.5GHz and power analysis for a specific project, you could rent those options for a few months. They already all support time-limited demo licenses, so this would be purely a marketing change.

[@lasersbee]

2:01... when I see that logo Radio Shack comes to mind....😂

[@ernestb.2377]

Every scope should have a front cover, as should other cool instruments too 🙂

[@flos251]

Is the HDMI port a second screen? Or is it just mirroring the scope screen?

[@Kirillissimus]

Now it is clear that just like Rigol and other chineese manufacturers completely dominate the low end market from the bottom to the top and even slightly higher into the mid range, R&S with its latest RTB and others are hands down the best choices in the mid range once again from the bottom to the top and even slighly touching the hi end. The MXO4 is already extremely expensive but any even remotely comparable Tektronix will be just ridiculously expensive as well as slow and bulky and you would only buy one if you really need all of its raw performance. It is unbelievable how R&S managed to grow from specialized Windows PC based test gear desgins into proper oscilloscopes with proper UI and really interesting features that noone else had before during just a few years.

[@lolilollolilol7773]

I don't know where you got the idea that R&S was a " specialized Windows PC based test gear" company. They have been a top end test & measure equipment company for decades. And before that they were making broadcasting and radar equipment.

[@tookitogo]

Well they did it by buying an oscilloscope manufacturer, Hameg. And in some ways, I prefer the old Hameg-based designs - their GUIs are way more responsive. Anyhow, as much as I want to love the RTB2 and RTM3, both of which I have used extensively, their slow-as-molasses GUI is a showstopper for me. I’m evaluating scopes in this price range at work right now, and the laggy UI of the RTM3 disqualified it out of the gates. Pity, because it’s a great device otherwise. Unfortunately I don’t have the budget for the MXO4 at the bandwidth I need. ;( (Meanwhile, LeCroy is offering me a fully-loaded WaveSurfer 4000 right at my budget. Tempting, though its waveform update rate is nowhere near as high.)

[@toxanbi]

A would be unhappy with a scope having boot-up time like this one. Seriously, modern hardware and software tend to exhibit laggy behaviour as a normal and desired expirience.

[@toxanbi]

FFT functionality is impressing, btw

[@tookitogo]

The boot-up doesn’t bother me as much as the laggy UIs. Keysight is the only one to get this right at the moment. (And Rigol, who seem to copy Keysight, which here is a good thing.) The lower-end R&S models (RTB2 and RTM3) have atrociously laggy UIs, despite having very competent acquisition hardware. The latest Tek models are ok, but still have slowdowns at times. Same with LeCroy.

[@johnwest7993]

If you get bored with that 'scope, I'll pay for shipping to get it here to Colorado, USA. :)

[@barrybogart5436]

I do love the front cover for my HP 1740A, a scope you know too well,

[@proluxelectronics7419]

I'll wait till the Hantek version comes out. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@peterandersen4676]

And the 8K USD price is just for the small 200Mhz version - this is a 26.000USD version. Amazing unit! just can't get any better..

[@TheKaraShark]

Front covers: on my 600€ oscilloscope at home - no, on the 42k€ oscilloscope at work - yes!

[@jerryfox3731]

Wow! Thank you you this review. This is a great scope. I really love my RTB2004 But bigger is always better.

[@Rehbet]

If pico farads are puff does that mean pico seconds are piss?

[@user-zc8sd8jx8s]

now put your hands on the blanket, everyone.

[@kissingfrogs]

Scratch the surface Dave. I learn lots watching someone who knows what they are doing poke around a new scope. I point a browser at the RTB2004 then I can have as the screen as big as my biggest monitor. Awesome out the box feature (with nothing to install) and would make it easy to screen capture. I assume this has that.

[@pauldenisowski]

Yes, the MXO4 supports remote control via a browser (nothing to install)

[@andersjohansson36]

Get an oscilloscope worth $8500. The first thing he does is draw a smiley :D

[@indiakilo3929]

Top form on this one Dave, classic! Pantone for the blue, do a quick lookup for b4rF mate!

[@fjs1111]

That is a nice scope man

[@kenwallace6493]

Can one adjust the BW of the digital inputs? Sometimes triggering is a problem with noise spikes.

[@ayushpardhi5566]

I use that front cover as a mobile tray at our lab

[@Gengh13]

If the Nx single feature becomes too much of a burden I can take it from your hands 😉.

[@Palmit_]

@EEVblog - Dave: send old scope to us less fortunate. i'll buy 200 tickets in the lottery

[@tom23rd]

One other important metric: will Keysight send you a free Pocket Guide to Radar and Electronic Warfare? 😂

[@muzammilsaeed2094]

Hi Dave, Just on that 700Mhz passive probe, Rigol has RP615A 1.5 GHz 500 Ohm passive probe, not sure if it is really possible to achieve this bandwidth on passive probes. These probes come as standard accessory with Rigol MSO8204A not sure if you have done review on that or could do one? Thanks

[@gweilo8888]

So where'd the comments correctly pointing out that this should be clearly labeled as sponsored content all vanish to?

[@user-su2ex1kq1j]

You have had the MXO4 for about 12 months now, Are you still happy with it? Did R&S fix the waveform update/s problem which occurs when you add a frequency measurement?

[@_adamalfath]

I can't even afford the probe

[@mrlithium69]

How many MHz in a scope is necessary for which type of real world signals. Examples: Serial, I2C, MMC, Ethernet, PCIe, DDR5, 6GHz Wifi, high freq RF stuff. What signals are people actually measuring that they need $8000 scopes ? and how close can you come to being able to do stuff compared to the $1000 or $200 scope. ( Or if you did a video like this already, lmk! )

[@clementc7297]

I have a 25k€ for WiFi application from R&S and I ordered this one for general purpose application. The needed bandwidth depends on you signal shape. For e.g. for square wave you need about 10 time the frequency of you signal to get a good representation.

[@EEVblog]

Thsoe are very specific needs, and often you want a dedicated debug tool ratehr than a scope for these.

[@dynorat12]

I like it I think I need it time to break out the check book lol.

[@Nik930714]

Are you planning a teardown of this and the Siglent one ?

[@jim5148]

You sir have obviously hacked the web cam in my shop since you know my nightly test equipment worship ritual.

[@k33per03]

...scope front covers are only good to protect the buttons and screen during transport.

[@chongli297]

She's a beauty! Though I think I'll stick with a used CRO on eBay and put the savings into a new car (and maybe a downpayment on a house)!

[@dorbie]

I wonder if they're doing an FFT for the frequency measurement and that's causing it to take a dump. The "fast" in FFT is relative.... Hmm.. the spectrum analyzer certainly is.

[@ovalwingnut]

GR8T show. I understand a bit more about the increased bit size. I'm more than a bit excited. Just saying. p.s. Surprisingly I'm not sHoCked at the price.. almost within reach after a kidney sale :) Cheers!

[@Elektronik-1]

A great device! But where is the 12-18 bit resolution??? You show a device that is advertised with it, but you don't check what resolution it really has... In the signal that was recorded at 46:42 in the range +-5V, one sees later in the enlargement a noise of approx. 10mVpp. This results in about 10 bit resolution. But the device was set to 18 bit! I.e. the noise should actually be smaller by a factor of 256.

[@lolilollolilol7773]

R&S are not known to overhype their specs. In fact they are usually slightly conservative. So I doubt they would jeopardize their reputation by overhyping that.

[@Elektronik-1]

@@lolilollolilol7773 At 55:50 Dave has shown the specs. For example, at 100 mV/div, a noise of 747 uV is given. A screen is 10 div high = 1 Vpp = 316 mVrms. 316 mV / 747 uV = 423. If I haven't miscalculated, that's less than 9 bits then....

[@gnarflord4547]

@@Elektronik-1 There is a big difference between ADC resolution, effective number of bits and effective resolution. Your noise floor consists of many noise sources, ie quantization noise (ADC), thermal noise, jitter noise (clock). If your thermal noise would be down in the 14 bit region but you had a 12 bit ADC all you'd see would be quantization errors. It can be quite the advantage to have ADC noise magnitudes smaller than the thermal noise! Looking at most 8-bit scopes they as well have about 5-6 bits of effective resolution. Just compare some of those datasheets and look for the "RMS noise floor" As always, AD has a nice Appnote for that; search for "Understanding Noise, ENOB, and Effective Resolution in Analog-to-Digital Converters" (also, for the 10V/div range it's more like 10.8 bits of effective resolution :P )

[@Elektronik-1]

@@gnarflord4547 10.8 bits for the MXO4 is not correct. Fullscale = 10V/div@10div = 100Vpp/(2*sqr(2)) = 35.36Vrms SNR = 35.36Vrms/57.16mVrms = 618.5 = 55.8dB ENOB = (55.8-1.76)/6.02 = 8.98 Only effective 9 bits with a 12 Bit ADC!

[@gnarflord4547]

@@Elektronik-1 You calculated effective number of bits (which is indeed 8.98 bits): ENOB = log2(10V/div * 10div / (ADC RMS noise * √(12)) = 8.98 I've calculated effective resolution: Effective resolution = log2(10V/div * 10 div / (ADV RMS Noise)) = 10.79 They are two very different measures, terminology is important! And now go and compare this with other scopes that have 12 bit, 10 bit or 8 bit ADCs: ENOB is always 2-3 bits smaller than ADC resolution. Effective resolution is smaller as well, though not so much.

[@IvyMike.]

What is the screen refresh rate? As the visual waveforms can only update as fast as that really.

[@EEVblog]

It's the waveform update rate that matters. The collection of that data can be presented the screen slower.

[@eprohoda]

Eevblog, beautiful .

[@felixar90]

What kind of scope would you recommend for a millwright? I don’t need anything super fast, in fact I’m looking for an hybrid between a graphing multimeter and an oscilloscope. Maybe an oscilloscope with super deep memory? But I need lots of channels I think. For checking things like quadrature encoders. And the other day I was troubleshooting a CNC lathe and the manual had a 12 channels timing diagram for the turret tool change sequence.

[@EEVblog]

I had to google millwright. Get a 4CH Rigol or Siglent in the $400 range.

[@KaylansDrone]

God i wish i could afford something like this. Having a scope in this tier would make me feel like a terminal child who got blessed by the make a wish foundation...

[@sokolum]

12:47 shot the video on 15th of October?

[@EEVblog]

Yep, shot the unboxing and maybe half of it last year. It had to go back and get replaced, and then I had other issues that delayed things.

[@stefanobertelli2650]

Putting my car on sale right now so i can afford this :)