EEVblog 1550 - Keysight E36731A Battery Emulator Teardown

[@AlphaCharlieFour]

Another great teardown! Thanks for recording in fork-A so we can see all the great details. I always learn so much when I watch your videos.

[@EEVblog]

Yeah, teardowns are the one thing I think 4K is useful for. Most other stuff I shoot is still 1080p

[@WhiteBream]

4:40 4-Quandant is about sourcing and sinking negative voltages in addition to sourcing and sinking just positive voltages for a 2Q supply.

[@policyprogrammer]

If you don't need uA and can get by with a few mA accuracy, you can use an Instek GPP-4323 power supply to emulate batteries. Two of its channels can be configured as loads and with a little bit of clever instrument programming, you can wire up a load channel and supply channel together to act as a two quadrant thingy. Janky, yes, but effective, and 1/10th the price.

[@Shrek_Holmes]

instek is much cheaper than these western brands. and they are a bit better quality than other cheaper brands like Rigol and Siglent.

[@pantelisEVs]

Glad that you made a teardown! I was so hyped and curious for the inside from part 1. Thanks!!!

[@ableite]

Do they emulate duracell leaks? if not, then it is incomplete....

[@EEVblog]

Paid software option.

[@cvspvr]

​@@EEVbloglootboxes are coming to battery emulators

[@bobert4522]

Gotta pay the nude bearded virgin to perform it hands on

[@flymypg]

I really like the overlay of specs and other info during the disassembly. Keep this!

[@menash54]

About the relay you talked about at 15:31. It might be the output relay to ensure complete disconnecting of the DUT from the source. It is well explained in Keysight University course PRACTICAL POWER SOURCING AND MEASUREMENT CONSIDERATIONS. - lesson 2 12:00 - page 45 on the handbook (apparently I cannot put links in here)

[@KeritechElectronics]

Yeah, a thing of beauty, a joy for ever. Definitely a nicely built device. Easy to discombobulate and recombobulate. Planar transformers, definitely an interesting thing. Thermistors on the output connectors? Interesting too. The power supply looks like it means business and does it well.

[@TheLOD2010]

Just some detail: ST and Bosch are sharing not only their semiconductor processes, they are sharing the font of the chip markings too. Bosch is easily to tell, they often use a data matrix code on their chips for traceability.

[@kurtiunlisted8589]

that little ceramic capacitor PCB might be a result of supply chain problems.

[@EEVblog]

Could be.

[@funtechu]

Yeah, that's my guess as well. There have been terrible shortages over the last three years in the MLCC and polycap markets.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

Perfect timing. I have my first battery powered project on the horizon and it will not be easy. Product manager is looking at 5-10 years out of a lithium primary so no time to test in in real life. The device draws high currents for short times. It would be very nice if you could show the capabilities of this beast when it comes to simulating pulsed load reaction if a battery.

[@bentboybbz]

On one hand having the fan keeping it cool for the many hours it will need to run may seem like a good feature but at that price point you are maybe expecting a passive cooling solution for multiple reasons including price. Keeping dust out,no fan to fail and cause failure of the device,noise,probably keeps temperatures more stable which I think may be a good idea for sensitive test equipment,I'm sure some of the things I mentioned are not important and there are some things I've missed but I'd like to hear your thoughts on the subject! Thank You For Your Time And Effort!

[@jaro6985]

You can't have passive cooling for a 200W load without killing the BOM cost and weight.

[@absurdengineering]

@@jaro6985Big-ass heatsinks are not cheap but they do the job. Even at 250W. Half of it would be a heatsink but hey, they had things with bigger heatsinks *and* a fan in their DC 40year old+ lineup.

[@Haarschmuckfachgeschafttadpole]

Was waiting for this after watching the first video on it.

[@richardbrobeck2384]

That unit looks like it was well designed a built looks worth every penny !

[@DrFrank-xj9bc]

very interesting, well analyzed and explained. thank you, Dave!

[@nattyrights]

I'm not so savvy, so I really enjoy sitting in on EEVblog videos. #sponge

[@SirHackaL0t.]

Cheers for clearing up the confusion. 😂 ‘A battery emulator emulates a battery’

[@FBender]

Teardown is my favorite segment. Thanks!

[@MKSense1]

Nice, those engineers did a good job.

[@lupojacobo9892]

That is a beast piece of ⚙️

[@ptr1275]

Dave, you keep mentioning this is only a 2 quadrant not 4, like that’s stopping it from doing its job. A 4 quadrant can source or sink current from positive and negative voltages. 2 quadrant is typically sourcing or sinking current only from positive voltages.

[@classicaudioadventures]

Someone had fun laying out the power supply.

[@fmashockie]

would not want to have to troubleshoot that when it fails lol

[@janbrittenson210]

It seems all the LXI-11, web browser interface, etc, is implemented in the STM32G474, without anything like Linux or Windows CE. That is a pretty significant firmware task.

[@jaro6985]

No way that is the case, the RJ45 port goes from the back to the front panel, so the web interface has nothing to do with the STM32. Dave didn't show the front panel processor.

[@309electronics5]

It aint that stm32g474 running the software, absolutely no way plus its not even on the front panel board. That MCU is probably controlling/housekeeping that power board. By the way when you zoom in you can just about read the 2 chips on the front panel board. The cpu (big square chip without pins on side) is a stm32h750xbh6, there is also a seperate microcontroller on that board labeled stm32f030c6t6

[@ediseverywhere]

I wonder if the capacitor bodge boards are due to supply chain issues.

[@maxtorque2277]

this^^ absolute nightmare with parts supply for the last couple of years, desiging in something that you then cant' actually buy....

[@Ferraday]

2:16 it’s not a 200W jobbie! 2.4kW and 1.2kW.

[@ricksmith3045]

200 W jobbie. Does not handle or source full current at full voltage. A lot of current at low voltage or a little current at a lot of voltage, but not both.

[@fly-lucky]

I'd like to see you using the thing and all the functions not just the tear down. Good stuff tho. Looks better quality than my korad kel electric load

[@jtb2586]

11:18 Wait a minute, are you not using a wireless grounding strap? So inconvenient having a wire attached to your arm

[@pmatil1]

I spy old HP style heatsinks on those TO* devices. Classic. Also the physical format seems like the old HP style as well, like the 6033A that I'm currently refurbishing.

[@dreamcat4]

this might sound dumb, or a waste of equipment... however with such a decent current resolution does that mean you can find a power rail short circuit on a faulty pcb? by probing / injecting a current across different locations. i believe tsp demonstrated this using some other different model psu

[@JYelton]

Would love to see battery emulation for primary and maybe secondary Lithium chemistries. Does it allow you to simulate batteries at various states of discharge? Very nice bit of kit.

[@bobert4522]

I wonder if that capacitor daughter board is simply just a transient absorber for that relay coil.

[@QsTechService1]

I would definitely be wearing a static Ban myself too Taking this thing apart A expensive piece of equipment

[@KBElek]

Interesting to see that they reuse the electronic load modul from there EL34143 EL

[@andrew2004sydney]

They have a 20kW Photovoltaic Array Simulator - WOW!

[@ArifKhan-bp9zx]

Which exact MosFETs are used as Electronic Load?? I find it really hard to select a MosFET specially for powrr dissapation...

[@commanderguy-rw7tj]

noo way, I was just looking at battery emulators literally yesterday cause I need one lmao

[@hgbugalou]

Dave wants a fanless 200 watt dummy load. On the flip side you could have a 4th function to cook your bacon on top. 😂

[@LawpickingLocksmith]

Hanky Dory?

[@EEVblog]

Hunky-dory

[@joegee2815]

Has anyone done a test of the Kensington lock standard? I mean other than the shit-ton of things that use it that have been stolen.

[@hgbugalou]

Glad mean well is still making quality psus.

[@maxtorque2277]

Is the output terminal temperature sensing to voltage compensate for the thermo-electric effect of the brass output terminals and the copper of the pcb to which they are attached?

[@jackwhite3820]

If you were that concerned about precision, you would use the 4-wire connection. I think it's just for protection, in case someone connects 1.5 mm² wires to the front screw terminals and tries to push 40 A over it.

[@johnsonlam]

Fantastic!

[@typxxilps]

really clean design

[@glenslick2774]

Keysight needs to add a Batteroo emulator option to this product line.

[@ailivac]

What's a "four quadrant" or "two quadrant" power supply? I assume it refers to some kind of X-Y plane, but what are the axes?

[@jaro6985]

Google four quandrant power supply and youll see a chart.

[@AndJusticeForAll...1985]

I want to start building my own audio amplifiers. Some book that teaches a bit about everything, does a great job explaining things in fine detail. Any recommendations. Something that is well known? Thanks thanks

[@AndJusticeForAll...1985]

@eevblog_2. oh for real? Hell yeah

[@AndJusticeForAll...1985]

@eevblog_2. what is it

[@khalifaalzaabi8230]

Hello my friend, if you can review the scale UNI-T UT117C

[@Chris_Grossman]

Also a usb charger!

[@RooMan93]

if Dave doesn't emulate the Batteriser, I'm not gonna recycle of a whole day.

[@andrew2004sydney]

Nice teardown and nice machine. For such a large financial investment, why wouldn't you just buy lots of sets of batteries for testing the product you are developing?

[@ACURAOCULTA]

Very good

[@jeetlodaya775]

What is the part number of main application processor?

[@309electronics5]

Zoomed in a read, stm32h750xbh6 as the main cpu, the second st chip also seems like MCU and has as part number stm32f030c6t6 wow this thing has like 1 cpu and 2 mcus controlling it

[@Lvvcassss]

So this works as both source and sink? A pricey one and not so powerful. But hey, if precision is the (no pun intended) key, it might be useful. I prefere Elektro-Automatik bidirectional PSUs.

[@twitchbook-1]

cheers

[@groovejet33]

G’day Sheila 🤔👍 G’day Bruce 🤔👍 Yeh bloody Flaming Galare’s😉 I hope yeh’all not Dead as a Doe doe’s Donger🤔🤪👌

[@trickyd499]

and now put it back together :)

[@xani666]

I want to see it in action, not in parts!

[@nigozeroichi2501]

$4,700 🤯 holy 💩

[@shazam6274]

Plus software and accessories.

[@Kirillissimus]

​@@shazam6274And don't forget about the juicy paid options and time limited licenses! I would not even be surprized to see separate paid battery discharge profile packs recorded from various real AA cells, AAA cells and so on from different manufacturers going for something around 1k$ each provided for doing more extensive and realistic tests with extra precision.

[@skyking6989]

$4700? Ya little outta my price range

[@Kirillissimus]

Yea, like if they dropped an order of magnitude from the price then I would think about buying it. I guess I'll have to wait for some rough functional clones to come from China...

[@HectorLopez-jw2ke]

More than one application video

[@JezCunningham]

240W ? Nah - 2400W

[@NebukadV]

The front panel looks incredibly cheap for a ~5000+$ instrument ...

[@wojtecz]

I have a battery emulator - an battery

[@absurdengineering]

It’s nice inside but the industrial design of the front panel is atrocious. Done without any sense of balance.

[@maybehuman4]

There is a lot of wasted space in this thing.

[@stevenbliss989]

So what are Q2001 & Q2003 etc. ??????

[@stevenbliss989]

The battery emulation seems PATHETIC as it does not seem to allow for charging, ...am I wrong, and if so HOW does it emulate battery charging???

[@Firecul]

It could use the load to sink the incoming current and slowly raise the voltage of the output of the power supply I guess. According to the datasheet for it: "You can perform charge, discharge of a battery, and use it to automatically create battery profiles at various test conditions[...]" so it can get the profile of the battery but I see it mentioned nowhere that it could emulate the charging. Iirc Dave does say it would need 4 quadrant architecture to mimic the charging function though.

[@stevenbliss989]

@@Firecul EXACTLY, that is why I am confused. I wish Dave would clarify this being a US$4.7k item.

[@bobzollo8753]

This is what is known as a 2 quadrant supply. Quadrant 1 is a power supply used for charging the battery or positive current. Quadrant 2 is a load used for discharging the battery or negative current. It doesn't need to be 4Q because you never want negative voltage on a battery. Or, as a battery emulator, these power supply and load blocks , with proper digital control, allow the instrument to emulate battery. If the emulated battery is sourcing current = discharging, the power supply does this. If the emulated battery is absorbing current = charging, the eload does this.

[@danielegger6460]

RLY for a relay connector? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_RLY%3F