EEVblog

Dave video captured laying out his power supply PCB in real-time, and in this video speeds that up by 10 times and adds audio commentary over the top explaining his thought processes and techniques of how to layout a PCB.

[@UpcycleElectronics]

*PCB Design 101 Class Index* 5:35 "I still don't have a complete idea in my mind of where everything is going to go." 5:54 "..power traces" 6:30 'grouping components in blocks' 8:30 'goal is for top side traces as much as possible' 10:41 'traces running across the whole board can ruin your layout' 11:04 'grouping components in tight blocks' 11:34 'locking design elements added to the PCB is very important' 12:09 'separation of analogue section' 17:57 'you'll still notice I'm laying out traces on the top side of the board' 18:39 "..part of the art of PCB design... it's quite difficult to teach" 22:20 "..it's hard to explain how I route traces... (explains leaving traces that cross the board until last, then trace sizes/then wiring order of traces and modular building blocks)" 24:11 "used my first trace on the back side of the PCB" (followed by an explanation of the design principals involved) 27:49 'explains through hole versus SMD routing' 28:52 'double sided layout design compared to single sided with jumpers' 29:26 'routing the 5 volt rail/(drinking commentary)/vias for higher currents explained/(awkward pause)' 30:52 'net/design rules check explanation' 31:26 'explains the typical order of traces types to route first' 32:40 (after another rules check)..."'my goals at this stage are 0 errors" except for silk screen errors' 32:54 'only errors left are GROUND/saves ground for last/explanation of the division of the ground plane for power and signal sides of the board' 34:47 'designators' 35:55 (shows) "ground keep out" with vague explanation/followed by explanation of how and where the 2 Ground planes are joined 37:40 "checking solder mask expansion...that they are not going to break through...that there is enough clearance so the pads do not short out when hand or wave soldering"//followed by an explanation of clearances, and cost. 38:33 "this board is very course.."/10-10 design rules explained/"any manufacturer in the world could make this... I could make this at home." 39:34 "the power of 3d view..." 40:43 'drill hole consolidation addendum'/make your PCB cheaper by using a minimum number of hole sizes causing the manufacturer to change tools for things like metric and imperial hole sizes attached to components from various libraries' 45:05 'compares layout of a design that is integrated with user interface and enclosure versus one that is wired into the center of an enclosure' 46:55 '..split ground plane was probably not needed, but is a good general practice' *Personal Favorites:* 27:14 "if your not using a snap grid, well, your crazy..." 18:12 "there's lots of stuff going on in my head which I can't... it's subconscious...it just magically works...that last trace just magically fits." ;-)) -Jake

[@_majortom_]

yeah. Dave is trying to make it as complicated as hell. no worries.

[@EnergyWell]

Dave is the Bob Ross of PCB Layout. I could drift off into peaceful slumber watching this art unfold. Truly an under appreciated artist of our our time. Happy little trees.

[@yuppiehi]

I'm still learning the art of PCB. No one ever taught me; it is something I picked up on my own after viewing thousands of circuit boards over the years. So, I have an eye for good and bad layouts. But, that's like judging paintings but don't know how to paint. When I start a layout, I try to follow some simple steps... First, I attempt to group the components into smaller circuits. Next, I create GND and VCC rails around and down the middle of the board, so that all the smaller circuits can tap into them. I then run a series of auto-routing. Auto-routing is a good tool for me to use in the earlier stages of arranging components because it shows me what components are running across the board. Then once I've minimized the number of traces and vias, then I start routing by hand.

[@jeromekerngarcia]

Dave definitely shows off his engineering chops in this Power Supply Design series. Until "going back in time" from where I first became aware of EEVblog, to here, I sort of thought Brother Dave only did Teardowns and Mailbags. Very glad to see Dave is a damn good engineer on multiple levels!

[@kevinscollan8293]

Dave is an experienced engineer who dun half know his shit I'm surprised even watching the mail bags n teardowns it shows thru, can't you tell??? 🤔🤨

[@EEVblog]

@DFCad1 CAD users would pay you directly for a top quality autorouter that worked with existing PCB tools, like for example, ELECTRA. Seriously, if you think you can do it, then you can make millions. There are companies that just do Autorouters. There are so many permutations with PCB design, it's simply not possible to have a autorouter do every design 100%, and any PCB professional knows this. Good qaulity Autorouters are of great value if you spend the time to set them up on complex boards.

[@ACMHK11]

+EEVBLOG Dave, you remind me of a Bob Ross for Electrical Artistry. We'll just put a happy little resistor here... you are awesome dude! :D I hope to make a career out of this type of work. This fascinates me. I can tell I would love and be good at this. I have that whole spacial relations aptitude. Don't know why it took me this long to subscribe, but I love your informative videos.

[@vladomaimun]

Trust me, I'm an engineer! What the fuck did just happened here?

[@graham6755]

Thank You Dave, I finished my apprenticeship in Australia in 1987, Radio and TV serviceman (Digital) last thing I remember was programming a 6502 uc, your videos are awesome for getting back in touch with the latest and greatest, and bringing electronics out of the closet... Beauty mate...

[@Professzore]

During these 2903 seconds, I've learned about PCB design as much as ever before.

[@crenn6977]

Really enjoyed this video, provided me with a lot of thinking material for when I lay out the circuit I'm designing. Looking forward to seeing the next video.

[@WestCoastMole]

Thanks Dave for going to the extra trouble to record your layout and then producing the audio track. Nicely done

[@umiatimukaromah5730]

utik anek kercel

[@gandalf87264]

PCB design has always been huge fun for me, but it has also cost me many sleepless nights. Then I think, how lucky we are today where we have software to do it for us. Way back in the early 80s I used to see our electronics engineers standing at drawing boards with peaces of tape sticking it to a huge transparency. That is how they plotted their PC boards. The personal computer had just made it's entry but there was no software that one could use to plot a PCB or create Gerber files to send to the manufacturer. That transparency with all that tape on it was the Gerber file. There was no Net checking software. We had to have a prototype PCB etched and sit there with a diagram and a multi-meter and check each net one by one. Now, If we found any mistakes we would send the the board and the diagram back to the engineers so that he could rip off some tape and add new tape to correct the mistake. Then back to the PCB manufacturer again for a new prototype...... and so it went on. I should say, before they even plotted a PCB, they would give me a diagram (Hand drawn) which I would prototype on a breadboard. I would then give them the all OK or point out any mistakes they had made and make suggestions to them to consider. I would suggest, replace AND with OR or something like that. They used to hate me and love me. They didn't like making mistakes :)

[@SteveMHN]

I find this so enjoyable to watch, it's just like a puzzle.

[@MrROTD]

I have never even tinned the end of a wire and I find this fascinating, designing a circuit board is actually an art form in my opinion

[@gorillaau]

Hi Dave, Nice going and a great series thus far. George

[@leppie]

I think I will tell my wife this is the new Sim City. Think she will do a pretty good job :D

[@wesleymays1931]

Best way to outsource PCB routing.

[@angelquinn3378]

you probably dont care but does anybody know of a method to get back into an Instagram account?? I was dumb lost my password. I would appreciate any tips you can offer me

[@benaaron9529]

@Angel Quinn Instablaster =)

[@angelquinn3378]

@Ben Aaron I really appreciate your reply. I found the site through google and I'm in the hacking process atm. I see it takes quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

[@angelquinn3378]

@Ben Aaron it did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I am so happy:D Thanks so much you saved my account!

[@MikePoirier]

Really enjoyed that. Good job Dave!

[@TomHodder]

Brilliant. Learned loads watching that!

[@notcranium]

Great video Dave! I have learned much from your narrative and watching your technique.

[@pyroesp]

Thanks for the video Dave, really interesting as always !

[@pepe6666]

woohooo. another ripper video. this has been really helpful for getting me started with my project. just having a solid example like this has answered lots of vague unformy questions i had in my mind. soothes the anxiety. there it goes. ahh.

[@davidcircuity6473]

Thanks for the commentary. Very helpful!!!

[@Ynfari]

When desinging a board or watching somebody do another board. Its always beautiful art! :) Love to assemble some boards under microscope that are some pieces of art itself! :D

[@zebratangozebra]

I look at boards as art. Some I even hang on the wall. And like art, some works are better than others.

[@richardsandwell2285]

Dave, you always impress me and this was 2012, In 2020, I am still staring Boz eyed into a mirror to reverse a paper layout I have made while looking at my schematic onto a Copper clad board with a Dalo Etch resist pen, before warming up Ferric Chloride in my kitchen. Since my late forties, my vision started to let me down I must confess to a few cock-ups, yes I have used a diamond-tipped engraver to break a track and I have used copper slug repellent tape from the garden centre to install a track where one was needed.

[@adamlumpkins2000]

Good job Dave!!!

[@sopalen]

I have just started doing single sided PCB, this is beautiful.

[@captiveimage]

Learned so much watching this. Thanks 😊

[@Maverus]

@EEVblog Thanks Dave... Much respect on the quick answer

[@piyush513]

You are an artist sir!!

[@TheJMan11000111]

Thanks David. Great video.

[@DIYTAO]

Nice video.. Layouting the boards is highly intuitive process, that can't really be explained easily. One learns it during year, and gets to make it visually pleasing.

[@scompo]

that's a great idea of doing it modular and outside of the board, thanks!

[@ArtesianFalma]

I didn't realize that this was X10 times speed until you mentioned it after almost 20 min. I was starting to be convinced that you are an alien Dave.

[@eridanusii268]

Sounds like someone wasn't paying attention 0:22

[@theCpuBuilder]

Great video!

[@Bianchi77]

Nice video, keep it up, thanks for sharing :)

[@0xbenedikt]

"Yes, it's very expensive. I am aware of that." - He surely is. Brilliant!

[@danyboy1477]

really informative serie thx for this. I've always neglected the bottom layer and a ground plane and also power traces width, diff pairs etc. I have a couple of boards I need to redesign now.

[@EEVblog]

@jfernandmy I did that because it's easier, and they both had to go to the same place. The package allows you to do that if you highlight both traces and drag. Same with busses etc. Nice spotting.

[@hungnguyenvan9860]

THANKS!

[@EEVblog]

@Maverus Only if they are carry data. In this case they just set the DC level for charger ID detection.

[@KrisBunda]

At about minute 40, the screen suddenly goes gray until the ending credits. I've tried refreshing my browser, going to a different video and coming back. If I hover over the progress bar, it shows a thumbnail of the PCB, as if that's what I should see. What's the deal?

[@igorkroitor]

Same for me, gray screen in the last quarter of this video

[@m1geo]

"If you're not using a snap-grid, then you're crazy! You should be!" heheh Love it!

[@bunnyhbrown]

Does it make coffee

[@EEVblog]

@zaprodk Ah, forgot to mention that. The heatsink doesn't support TO-220 properly, so they are set back the pins can be bent.

[@RandyLott]

@EEVblog Haha, I usually just stay away. I know that I can do things better and gets things exactly the way I want. Thanks for the tip, Dave.

[@EEVblog]

@Maverus If assembled with a properly designed commercial thermal oven, then placement and heat sinking shouldn't be an issue, so you'd group them together usually. Your assembler will know how to program the thermal ovens temperature profile to handle this.

[@EEVblog]

@jimbobg65 The problem with the perpetual license is that you are stuck with whatever version you get at the time, you don't get bug fixes unless you are on yearly subscription. So it's pot luck, some releases are excellent and quite stable, others are bug ridden and quite unstable.

[@EEVblog]

@martyfriedman666 More plated through area to handle the current. Yes about the split track. I think I remove/change that in the REV B board.

[@EEVblog]

@shades2 It's a general use lab power supply.

[@onjofilms]

XXXX Cellllll Ent!! Thanks. Love this stuff. Great info.

[@mrx.2233]

You just scared the crap out of me. Quite a board for a PSU.

[@fall174fps]

As Dave says, through hole is handy because you can jump tracks with resistors. The thing is axial components are generally variable length. So they can be 0.4" or 0.8" or even 1" if you have enough wire lead. I guess that doesn't matter but when I did small layouts manually it was very easy to arrange. Can Eagle or Altium make components longer on the fly?

[@marshalcraft]

question? do you have a video on soldering microchips to boards? i bought a nano accelerometer for inertial navigation as a back up for loss of gps but they are very small and the pads are really tiny??

[@EEVblog]

@hendor79 Yes, I have one, they are awesome. Everyone at Altium used them.

[@EEVblog]

@ryanlgy95 Yep, that's the idea. Originally a kit of parts, but now thinking at least a fully built PCB + kit for the case etc.

[@TheElectr0nicus]

Great video Dave! I would like to work with Altium Designer instead of Eagle ,which I like to call "advanced (MS) paint", because it's so circuitous to work with. Even when the layout get's a bit more complex. I've asked Altium if I can get a student-license. Yes of course I can, but this will cost me about 140 Euros (173 AUD) per year.

[@jimarcin]

Great video Dave! Looking forward to seeing next one! Short question; how do you group these components and internal routing in modules? Do you use rooms for that?

[@EEVblog]

@SajjadBro I recorded at 1 frame per second.

[@sarowie]

good video :-) it is interesting to see: every layouter has some short of "hand writting" in his pcbs. (and signatur, I like the small animals and this stuff on pcbs that are showing, that actually one designer designed it from scratch to layout.

[@EEVblog]

@sabamacx That would be nice, but the current RevB design doesn't leave much room for that.

[@malsuayegh]

Great! .. Really Helpful .. Thanks al lot :D

[@militantmindset]

@EEVblog i often use the auto route feature... to see how many flies i can catch on my monitor

[@clickfix]

Very informative video, thanks! I did my fist smd board some time ago, and I had a hard time figuring out what grid size to use, I ended up laying out a lot of the traces on free hand. Are there any standard to follow?

[@VenturiLife]

@EEVblog Cool. Thanks. Looks good. :)

[@kewlbns69]

i had a science teacher in 7th grade that said that we (america) would be on metric within 10 years...that was 20 years ago. as much as i hated that guy i kinda wish he was right on that. metric is so much easier than the weird forms of measure we use. P.S just wanted to say the guy was an amazing teacher and that was the only thing he was ever wrong about. i just didn't like him personally heh

[@beardedsawyer6322]

You guys really need to do something about that man, confusing us to death with your alien measurement scales

[@tomjones9137]

No way...for everyday practical measurement ie. square footage, building height, building materials....feet and inches are WAAAAY more practical. That is why construction still uses it...why call a 10 inch nail a 224mm nail? Or 25cm nail? Meters are too large, and cm are too small....imperial will never disappear. Metric is not good for reality...maybe math and physics but that's it.

[@gunnararndt4359]

But 10 and 25 are both numbers?

[@AnalogDude_]

Tom Jones how do you think we make buildings, industrial complexes over here in europe? We think in mm while we are building. 3000 mm of 1 inch tube, 2.5mm2 cable, 10 mm metal drillbit, 17 mm ringkey ..... everything is done in mm.

[@AnalogDude_]

Tom Jones M10 x 100 mm, means a 10 mm "thick" bolt with a length of 100 mm. That is what you say if you order a bolt of 10 mm, a m10 x 100 mm.

[@jfernandmy]

Hey Dave, very nice video! Just one question: Sometimes you routed two traces at the same time, like a pair coming from the serial connector, did you treat them like a differential pair or something like that? or it was just easier to route them in pair? Im a newbie and Ive heard something about differential pairs, so I wanted to know why did you do that. Thanks!

[@EEVblog]

@kildas Yes it does, but the autoplacer does not work. No autoplacer works.

[@EEVblog]

@jimarcin Not a fan of rooms for something simple like this. That's useful for bigger multi-channel designs though. In this case I just manually gathered components as needed. Takes all of a few minutes work.

[@EEVblog]

@kkd89 Yes, highly recommended listening. The answer is no, it's not a problem.

[@APVT80]

How did you make the oval holes for the DC in connector? Not very many overnight PCB houses can/will make those oval holes. In cases where they would upcharge, would you recommend just going with big circular holes and filling with solder?

[@Maverus]

Hey Dave, I got a question for you about PCB layout, if you don't mind. If you had to lay down several D-pak components would you group these into a central location or spread them throughout the board, even if they constitute a module, say voltage reg or power supply for the board. I had an issue were soldering and contact became a problem, i think it is because they sucked up the heat as well. Gimme you thoughts.

[@envisionelec]

@jfernandmy I might be able to answer this. Dave doesn't appear to be using the differential pairing feature here, but simply routing both traces simultaneously to save time.

[@rish1459]

Dave, did you set up your design rules before this? Also, do you every use the Autorouting features?

[@brice9613]

Trying to make a custom version of the vesc 4. There is a lot to learn.

[@irishRocker1]

Dave, I've been wating for this video in the bench psu series! Thanks! You mention that you used two vias when changing layers with the high current trace. Is that to reduce/inductance and trace impedance? or just because it means more plated thru hole to handle the current? Also, at 31:47 You route a trace around a mounting hole and split it to go both sides. Also to help with the high currents since the wider trace wouldn't fit either side i assume yes? That's a handy trick. Thanks Dave!

[@VenturiLife]

@EEVblog Is this for general purpose use, or is it for a specific purpose?

[@kildas]

I know that altium have like autorouter but does it have "autoplacer"? So you just define shape and size of the board click a button and software will automaticly place components and route traces?

[@YouDabian]

Well, that really depends on what value you're getting from it. I suspect that what you actually mean, is that you can get free and open source software, that will do the job just as well.

[@deathventure]

@EEVblog What's missing in his idea is the shear magnitude of different possibilities with each board. High voltage, analog, low voltage, impedance dependencies, resistance dependencies, so on. By the time you customize the rule structure, you'd have the board near finished anyways. Part variances alone and the shear number of differences between various parts would make it incredibly difficult to program an algorithm. Not to mention bloat the program and slow the system down to a crawl

[@cjdelphi]

You know what I think would be a nice project to build, a !2v PSU, connected to to a car battery and use a few switching regulators to supply the power... (in case of power out)

[@alessandrorumbo490]

around 22:15 all the layers except the top suddenly go grey and transparent-ish. How do you do that?

[@annaoaulinovna]

This board works.. Rules are..calculate current capacity... Thermally critic components should far away from important ics and caps.. Usage sockets should be placed to ideal places..

[@EEVblog]

@TheElectr0nicus Yep, and you can't produce anything commercial with it, and once you finish school you have to pay full price.

[@williefleete]

how much do you reckon you'll sell these kits for. i might consider one if they're reasonably priced, the analogue one i made is OK it just makes a slight hiss on the sig tracer at full volume no preamp and you get a bit of wiper noise adjusting the voltage pot. it has 5 preset voltages set with multi-turn trim pots and constant current settings which i've trimmed to within about half to 1%, the constant current is handy for testing LEDs and doing crude 4 wire resistance measurements

[@gregzinhao]

I will be happy to se a comparation of your result and the autorouter result.

[@sabamacx]

Is it too late to add "zones" or "regions" performing a certain task to the silkscreen? That is, a big box around an area that is the microcontroller (and associated bits), a big box around the micro-current, etc?

[@bjarni1995]

Great video Dave! I was wondering if you could explain USB, especially for chargers, for example explain what the resistors on the data lines do? Greetings from Iceland (Wow the other side of the world!) -Bjarni

[@SamKorn-The_Real_One]

What is the reasoning of using mostly through-hole parts? About to get started on Altium power electronics PCB, and do through hole parts help with noise? Or probably just power rating?

[@RyanVasquez6089]

+Sam Korn He probably did it for ease of assembly. I have soldered alot of smd parts though and i don't find it hard after some practice. You can in fact get in surface mount resistors with power ratings up to 250W !!!! www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv2=12&pv2=17&pv2=544&pv2=81&pv2=13&pv2=14&pv2=126&pv2=127&pv2=15&pv2=121&FV=fff40001%2Cfff800e9&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25

[@MrFeliks912]

+Sam Korn Its going to be a kit, you wouldn't give a beginner a bunch of SMD components to soldier at home, trough hole are much easier

[@erg0centric]

did you mention zero ohm resistors as an extra layer?

[@Maverus]

Hey Dave... One more thing, do you have to do EMC for kits like these ? Also, if you get some time, could you do an EMC video ?

[@PainCreator]

R43.. Why oh why?! :D Great job Dave!

[@ACMHK11]

R17 & R19 😁

[@_a.z]

Martin Skorunka It's PCB design, not OCD lol !

[@_a.z]

Martin Skorunka Now I'll wake up at 3am in a cold sweat!

[@FastElectronic]

How to do visible layers in high resolution in Altium 3D mode? How You switched it to see one layer in the same time?

[@nrdesign1991]

You can turn down the solder layer opacity. Press L in 3D mode and play around with the sliders to make the copper more visible.

[@szymz19]

Hi Dave. I just have finished designing my PCB to my minisumo robot .It's already maufacturing but I wonder if you could just take a look at it and tell if it has any 'glarning' bugs..? It has unusual shape and I think you may find it interesting :) Sorry for english and.. thanks! Simon

[@EEVblog]

@clickfix Any grid size is better than freehand!

[@VenturiLife]

Do you use vias at all to cool components?

[@TomMinnick]

@EEVblog Asking software to do "intelligent" routing I think would be equal to asking software to code other software. One day we might have true AI that can think independently like a person can and do these things, but until then the best way is to manually route.

[@magnuswootton6181]

vote: Hivoltage power supply Dave style!!

[@EEVblog]

@fingerboy18 Well, they do use them, but they use them selectively, and set them up very carefully to do specific jobs. Sometimes it takes so long to set them up to get the result you want, that you may as well do it all manually anyway. BTW, the Altium autorouter is very widely known as one of the WORST in the business.

[@hendor79]

Dave, have you ever tried a 3DConnexion controller with Altium Designer?

[@MrPmjg]

The ground plane should always be on botton or does not matter?

[@iSolarSunrise]

I just came back from spending 10 hours designing a board... PCB routing is always painful... Agh my head hurts right now.

[@padmad3k63]

+iSolarSunrise It's not, I love it. It's like a puzzle. I'm a EagleCAD user.

[@mccunecp]

looks nice do you know of any good sits for building charge controlers for solar and wind. I like to build my own and beable to have a charge controler that will different things like build a APC unite like a batterie back up for a PC but instead of a PC for an home.