EEVblog

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Watch the uCurrent PCB's being assembled on a commercial pick and place machine.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

You can pick up used machines like this for around $50-100K including feeders. Some manufactures do various lease schemes, and I've heard of one where you lease a machine that's deliberately slowed down and you can pay by the hour to make it run faster when you have more work.

[@sensecam]

Very good video again Dave! I did not know battery clips fitted on a reel, most impressed. Your videos are always clear and you are an excellent teacher.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Backlash isn't necessarily a problem as long as you have accurate position feedback, and your motion control is set up to deal with it.

[@fender7802]

Thanks Dave. I'm interviewing for a field engineer next week at a company who makes pick and place machines. Looks like it might be a fun job servicing these machines.

[@rivets1001]

I work for Megger in the UK and we have 4 SMD lines and they still amaze me. Love seeing my boards being asssembled.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

FYI The reason it only takes the battery holder over to the fixed camera is that it's too big for the field of view of the flying cameras in the head to see - small parts are visioned on the fly as they travel from the feeder to the board - you can see the red flashes in the head as it picks.

[@vics-videos]

Really eye-opening! While I write firmware, I occasionally have to think with the process and/or debug or re-work a board and understanding this process -- actually seeing it in video here -- is HUGELY helpful! Thank you, Dave for making these videos. Pretty awesome!

[@mikeselectricstuff]

I believe the leadscrews on these machines are almost regarded as consumables. P&P machines will have a regular service schedule - I know a 'major service' on a big Mydata is about a day's work. This is not the sort of kit you buy and expect to keep going by itself, and unscheduled downtime can be rather expensive!

[@rywolf01]

Pick and Place machines are awesome to watch. Inspection units are very cool too. I greatly enjoy your videos.

[@EEVblog]

Yes, the couple of hundred setup cost really is no big deal. It took almost a whole day for someone to set this up. And they do require constant vigilance and tweaking to run them, even for a very simple board like this.

[@Patrick-pl8wv]

That was fascinating! I've wondered, for years, how the board assembly process worked. Thank you for sharing.

[@polyore]

This guy is a f*cking university. Amazing know-how transfer.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

All parts designed for surface mounting are designed to withstand reflow temps. About the only parts that can't are batteries. This is one minor reason why nobody makes SMD germanium semiconductors!

[@mikeselectricstuff]

I have seen tapes like this - I doubt it was done manually. They use bandoliers (like you see with TH resistors), but with mixed parts. I imagine there was a machine that took bandoliers of standard parts and assembled these customized bandoliers from them.

[@skynetcybernetics9058]

"How much did the machines cost?" **instant blood pressure spike**

[@010Andrew010]

I bought a (cheepa, cheepa) Chinese 8 head machine for AUD$15K. While it has it's own set of issues, placement accuracy is excellent. I have had both ends of the spectrum in machines. The more expensive machines are good, but you pay significantly more for the privilege of a few extra features. You also pay through the nose for service on high end machines, there is very little service on the cheaper machine, mostly DIY. Speed is comparable, setup is more difficult on the cheaper machine and can take a little longer, but an excellent result can be had just the same. I have been considering converting my budget machine to openPNP which opens up an entirely different spectrum of support. Feeders for it are standard Yamaha/Juki feeders and quite cheap. 8mm---70usd/pcs 12mm----85usd/pcs 16mm-----85usd/pcs 24mm-----280usd/pcs 32mm--450usd/pcs 44mm---580usd/pcs Vibration feeder---250usd/set Not sure about electronic feeders as I haven't used them on this machine yet.

[@ImGriffinP]

@@010Andrew010 What machine did you end up buying?

[@AshurChamoun]

"The machine comes and sucks the devices off" tho

[@guruflorida]

I have a samsung CP20CV. similar mechanics I see, definitely servo drives. Thanks for the video Dave! You missed the laser aligners on the heads! Those are really slick, when the pickup head picks up the part it pulls it up into the path of the laser and a 1D CCD element detects the shadow and computes the rotation and offset (part rotates during scan). No need to go over to the big red camera to do small parts like resistors, caps, QFNs. Really fast.

[@EEVblog]

Yep, at least a mil. And that's just one basic line. Some factories have countless lines, and more advanced.

[@stevejobs0]

Can you suggest me any advance machines or websites about them???

[@americanmultigenic]

Fascinating. That "placement" machine is mesmerizing.

[@jmitsch44827]

Absolutely fascinating. This is a rare insider view of the SMD board mystery. Millions of dollars of hi tech robotic equipment there to solder the PCB board. I would like to see more shows that demonstrate this process. Great video, thank you.

[@fornax205]

Great video! Q: Regarding components such as light-emitting diodes (LED) that have a top side (the light-emitting side) and a bottom side. How is a component's top-side-up/top-side-down orientation specified during the PCB design process (e.g., within Altium Designer). I assume top-side-up placement is the default placement for pick-and-place machines that obtain parts from tape-and-reel feeders. So how is top-side-down placement performed during PCB fabrication? From what I can tell, your μCurrent board mounts an LED top-side-down on the PCB's bottom layer. That LED emits its light through a hole in the PCB so that the emitted light is visible to someone who is looking at the PCB's top layer.

[@rotlerin]

I love the precision of the drive shafts from the stepper motors. If they are the same as my CNC machines the are all of the recirculating ball type which completely eliminates all backlash which would be essential when working with these superfine tolerances. Great vid. Most interesting.

[@EEVblog]

For sure, the backlash would have to be non-existent. And the resolution I believe is 50um

[@capoman1]

Fucking beautiful Dave. You have to make a project and walk us all the way through the process like this. Totally delicious viewing.

[@johnfrancisdoe1563]

capoman1 This video is part of such a series. Previous videos show how he made it so one side if the board will be the front panel, while the other contains the circuit, how he changed the board design for automatic assembly, how he combined 10 boards into each panel, how he prepared semi-automatic quality tests for finished boards and how he received components from wholesalers and packed them up for the factory.

[@outanet]

I worked with a $1 millon single head Philips pick&place and reflow system circa 1988. We would program both P&P and reflow using a dos toshiba via rs232. pre windows. The solder mask was a manual wipe. making posh audio dacs, apart from that, not much has changed including speed. You still get issues with dropped components and solder paste in vac nozzles. large packages having shorted legs etc. nice video, thanks for the memories.

[@steverpcb]

That "worm drive" is called a "ball screw" because the nut it runs in has ball bearings to engage in it rather than a matching thread.

[@CoolDudeClem]

That's interesting to see how the boards are made, did you make the Lab Power Supply board here? Also what OS does the software run on? Just curious, I'm guessing some Linux distro as that can do all kinds weird and wonderfull stuf, whereas Windows and Mac is more for ''normal'' things.

[@steverpcb]

Looking at the date and the setup time required, it would be interesting to see a 2020 version considering the free smt assembly offer by JLCPCB !

[@kostaskritsilas2681]

The reflow profiles are extremely important. If not done correctly, you can have solder joint problems and tombstoned components (component standing up, due to one side of a component having solder melt, and the other not, the surface tension of the melted solder tends to pull on the component). A number of things must be taken into account; the thermal mass of the board, the type of solder paste and flux (especially with modern no wash fluxes), surface finish of the solder mask (shiny finishes tend to reflect more IR energy than matte finishes), colour (if it isn't the standard medium green) thermal mass of large components, and a few others that I am sure I have missed.

[@AMSIGOWNER]

I have the older version of this machine with MG1R the mechanical feeders, the feeders defo Achilles heal , gotta work on calibrating them

[@seancastledine8983]

Nice video. Nice observations on the limitations and necessary considerations in running a board through such a system. Nice.

[@renegadebiker24]

Darren, this is what I got from wiki: "A solder paste is essentially powdered metal solder suspended in a thick medium called flux. Flux is added to act as a temporary adhesive, holding the components until the soldering process melts the solder and makes a stronger physical connection. The paste is a gray, putty-like material. The composition of the solder paste varies, depending upon its intended use." I want to know what makes up solder paste, like is it used solder mixed with flux?

[@TheHeisenberg1]

complements to the Egyptian engineer you last spoke with in the video ... unmistakable Egyptian English accent :)

[@fornax205]

Great video! Q: During PCB fabrication, what determines the component placement sequence-i.e., component A is placed first, component B is placed second, etc. Is the placement sequence suggested or specified by the PCB's designer (e.g., within Altium designer), or is the placement sequence determined by the PCB fabricator when they set up their pick-and-place machines for a manufacturing run, or both?

[@RCPhotosVideos]

This brings back a lot of memories when I worked for micron for 2 years I ran a pick and place machine !

[@philnicholl13]

i run a europlacer vitesse. i only wish we had those electronic feeders would make life so much easier. We have shit loads of problems with re-reeling in that the machine can have a reject rate thats mind boggling and then leads to shortages. GREAT VID

[@VaibhavGajur]

I am not going to see this smd automatic soldering machine in my life thank you david and the eevblog. Thumbs Up.

[@RandyLott]

Seemed like nice guys too. That system is incredible! Does a PLC control the conveyor in the reflow oven with an optical sensor? Just a guess. I can't believe how much those reel feeders cost. They look like very good quality.

[@MarcelGlasgow]

I have been in company which manufacture PCB's by this SMT and those machines are awesome. Love it:-)

[@Poundy]

great vid. Great to know that someone here in AU has such capability (I honestly doubted it before seeing this, but it's excellent they are there!), and while there's a lot of effort to set up and make it all happen, I can see how it would be awesome if you had anything that you needed to spin up a large number of items.

[@treadmillrepair754]

The most fast pick and place machines are "Fuji" , I saw many of these on Intel Factories. Cheers.

[@TramsYendor]

I hope you so know that the solder paste machine is Pneumatically driven, not hydraulic, hydraulics is too dirty for a clean enviroment, but I'm surprised that there isn't a magazine loader on the input and/or output, the battery holders overlap the placement heads, so it restricts the number of holders that can be placed, the machine also has to visually check the battery holder for their orientation before placing, most components are orientated in the feed rolls, it is also possible to have pins and other leaded components machine loaded, also pins that are inserted into boards and never soldered (friction fit) The comminucations along the conveyor system is SMEMA, The parts missing from the line is the testers, being wither TCIL, for MDA/Functional test, or for smaller operations, MDA vacuum testing on2270 units (there is a broad range) and using ECT (and others) spring loaded probes.

[@samsonofdan]

Nice interview in Circuit Cellar April 2012 Dave!! nice to hear you started your love with a Tandy DIY kit

[@Guineh76]

Wow, those pick & place machines are a thing of beauty!

[@Skwisgar2322]

I believe the technical term for the "worm drive" is ball screw, they are a bit different in principal from a worm drive.

[@Kallinenjp]

***** Definatly not a worm gear, though not a true ball screw either. Its a high helix version drive screw but has the same alignment/locating/drive design as a ball screw. And this machine is a cnc machine...

[@dougankrum3328]

+Skwisgar2322 ..'Worm' drive is a 'worm gear' (usually steel) and a larger toothed 'wheel'...(usually brass), called a 'worm wheel'....then...for slow low cost linear drives...acme screws and nuts...higher price/accuracy drives use a 'ball' screw, and ball nut....electric motor/s run the screw from one end...usually an encoder at the motor or sometimes the opposite end of screw....trust me...I've worked on 100's of these....

[@Skwisgar2322]

Yeah, that was what I was saying, the actuator these things use is a ball screw/nut. I remember learning about these and recirculating ball guides from a guy that was building his own precision CNC mill.

[@dougankrum3328]

+Skwisgar2322 ...I didn't see where the video here actually shows a ball-screw, hard to watch due to the narrators extremely annoying voice.......but I worked with that stuff from 1970-1979....heavy machine tools with 2-3 axis ball-screw drives...accurate to around .0002"....ball-screws are fairly fast, and quite accurate (although expensive)....the 'acme-type' lead-screws wouldn't be able to operate at these speeds....

[@jptbaba]

wow, i have to say guys like you are greatest asset. I always wanted to study electronics. But I can't afford education here in Australia. I believe though your videos would teach me more than I would in university. THANKS -Swoorup

[@EEVblog]

It's crazy huh?

[@brendethedev2858]

Yah

[@rotlerin]

Gees! I wonder how long the m/cs repeatability lasts under these conditions. I guess at the speed it was producing yours it would be a lot more than we saw on the last board. It's interesting, but sometimes we forget the inertia involved when a heavy placing head like this has to come to an instant stop to within a few microns from these types of speed. Must place a heavy burden on the servos and slides.

[@rapsod1911]

I saw 15 years ago one trough hole pick-'n'-place machine. It was huge. Instead of using as many tapes as there are different types of components, they used to assemble manually one huge tape but with alternating components. And of course they could use only axial components.

[@nevwenevwe]

Nice video! I've setup and operated these machines several years ago. Awesome technology behind these machines.

[@JLTSoft]

You just can't watch Dave without learning something. You can't! EEVblog is my favorite blog and I've only known about it for a few months. If only I had discovered this before I designed my MonsterShield prop controller! Thanks for all your videos. I'll keep watching if you keep making! :)

[@AlainHubert]

You've got to have the slowest auto-focus camcorder in the world ! Either that or you kept on focusing manually (for no particular reason, since modern camcorders are pretty efficient and quick at focusing automatically these days)... Still, very interesting video. I wonder how long it would have taken one person to finish all those boards by hand ?

[@lixielabs]

Not as long as it takes Dave's camera to focus.

[@rogertopful]

Slowest? You have apparently never seen Ashens videos.

[@steverpcb]

The reason why it was taking the battery holders back to the optical alignment thingy is that it had to turn them to the correct angle before placing them.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Can't believe it can take a day to set up a simple job like that. If it did, someone needs to get their process sorted out better or Samsung's software is really poor. Only the odd nonstandard part like bat holder should need any vision setup, and most of the data should import from the PCB sw pick/place report.

[@sixstringmania]

ahhh i was always fascinated by pick and place machines..... they move so elegant .. ahhhh

[@VndNvwYvvSvv]

Why is it called "reflow" when it was never flowed before? IMO, reflow is surface tension alignment after SMD hand placement or repair.

[@TheElectr0nicus]

They are definitly servos. With stepper motors you will never get that precision of probably 50µm that Dave mentioned. Especially with the large pitch of the worm screw not even when you do 64 times microstepping with a stepper motor. Also a stepper motor will loose torque when microstepping, what is not desired, i think. With a servo motor you can have really high resolutions per revolution. But they are very expensive, i know, what the servos of the cnc lathe i was working on, costed

[@MaxKoschuh]

I truly LOVE this video. Thank you so much for sharing.

[@Audio_Simon]

Really educational video. So is 200 pcbs about the minimum to access these pick and place machines and automatic solder applicators? Is 0603 the best supported package for pick and place? I have a design that I made with 1206 as it was to be hand soldered, but I want it machine done now and wonder if 0603 is going to give me the best chance of finding a manufacturer.

[@pirateman1966]

Those ACME screws and servo motors are huge. I wonder what the repeatable placement accuracies are on these machines.

[@brylozketrzyn]

it has ±0.030mm accuracy. 01005 capable.

[@TheMrKeksLp]

That pick and place machine is awesome! Love it

[@ib9rt]

That reflow solder oven looks just like the ones in Quizno's sandwich shops. I wonder what the reflow profile for cheese is?

[@siouxsettewerks]

Is that roll of tape the one protruding from the row before the battery holders, the fourth from there? The conception of those pick and place machines must be quite awesome!

[@msylvain59]

If you can get an old junk pick and place machine, it would give a wonderfull equipment teardown :p

[@reply4reply]

would you be a hero and get us the profile temperatures of the actual pcb and for how long because we are a community of profile runners in soldering and we really love to see a manufacturer actual profile rather than the ones on paper

[@krash20]

Well those machines can cost well over 1 million $ depending on the manufacturer and take in mind that some manufacturers use an automated optical inspection machine at the end of SMD process. Only the inspection machine costs between 100.000 and 250.000 euros than imagine how much cand cost the rest :D. It's beautifull how PCBs are made

[@pulsecloud]

If the boards come out so hot then what happens to temperature-sensitive components? Do they get special treatment? If so, how do you tell the manufacturer that this component is very sensitive?

[@CameronSamanM]

THATS DOPE!!! Hope my parents let me put one in there garage!

[@RandyLott]

I definitely have a bit more respect for tooling costs. These guys do know what they're doing and this beast needs the personnel to operate. I still hate tooling costs that tend to be way more than my whole PCB run, but that's life!

[@renegadebiker24]

EEVBlog, These maybe some crazy questions, but, I am curious, what product makes solder paste? Is it from old circuit boards, or what material is it made from? I am an upcoming entrepreneur in the e-waste recycling business, and I would like to know what the by-product of solder paste is, and also can a computer chip be recycled down to it's original form, like a by product of it?

[@EEVblog]

The postal system in various countries has been very slow and sucky in recent years. All that security BS

[@WVCapsfan]

Dave, so you have 10 actual microcurrent boards on each big board and you are making 20 of those for a total of 200 ucurrent PCBs. If I am correct in understanding that these are prototypes, can you give a quick summary of your beta for these? Are they going out in the field for test or in house cycle test or what? Interested in the next step of your product development. Keep up the GREAT videos. I am really learning a lot and you have rekindled my interest in electronics.

[@jarenhudson9794]

Did you stack populated assemblies on one another?

[@superdau]

You're nitpicking. They are not exclusive. A servo motor can include a stepper motor. The former is more of a whole system, the latter one type of motor.

[@renegadebiker24]

Darren, I was wondering what makes the solder paste, like is it a by product of used solder, or something like that that Dave is talking about.

[@EEVblog]

It's in the tape upside down.

[@Albinorama]

Awesome Dave, THANK YOU so much for all your vids. Im gonna buy a uCurrent, only for giving you back something. Thanks again.

[@envisionelec]

Assuming you meant "What does your comment mean?" I am clarifying the terminology of the type of motors used in this machine. They are servo motors, not stepper motors.

[@definty]

Could you get a pick and place machine to build another pick and place machine?

[@saltymcpepper5777]

Just the circuit boards.

[@Rêvetavieencouleur-i2c]

pouvez vous me dire combien coute l’unité de production complète (hors bâtiment ) prix hors taxe Can you tell me how much the complete production unit (excluding building) is cost price excluding tax

[@jvcrules]

Happy early birthday EEVblog!

[@EEVblog]

Definitely advances beasts.

[@brunoaduarte]

How much for all those equipments and machines ? $1 million ?

[@Gameboygenius]

On the solder paste can there's a percentage (86.5%). What does this stand for?

[@ForViewingOnly]

Awesome video! Dave, did you get to ask how this monster machine is maintained? Are the operators trained to locate & repair faults, and do they have modular spares on site? This machine is so insanely complex & specialist that I can't imagine there being a repair company just down the road, but to have a spare of every part on site would be damn expensive!

[@charonstyxferryman]

How are PCBs with components on both sides made?

[@NivagSwerdna]

Nice. Did you just supply the non-standard components or are you responsible for buy reels of every component?

[@rich1051414]

+NivagSwerdna I would assume if you have a non-standard part they cannot source reels for, you have to place it yourself, as in, the boards will be delivered with those parts missing. I am not sure if they would allow you to supply them with questionable reels, which may jam or damage the machine, or melt when baking.

[@johnfrancisdoe1563]

NivagSwerdna There's a video of him gathering all the boards, reels etc. for delivery to the factory. He had to buy from multiple wholesale suppliers to get all the parts.

[@RyuHanamichi]

What did you study and were do you work?

[@VTOLAircraftMad]

how specialized are they? to make another board, how difficult would it be and how much money would it cost to change it?

[@spiloFTW]

13:00 its not hydraulic, its operated by air presure (safer, cheaper)

[@edherdman9973]

Probably no way of getting an answer now, but I wonder what kind of lubrication they use for that worm gear.

[@technodaz]

Honestly thats totally up to the maker of that particular paste but as it states its just metal particles suspended in a paste form with some kind of flux , google datasheetarchive go to there site and do a search J-STD-005 and you will find a world of information on the standards for solder paste. lots of pdfs out there too be found m8

[@Almighty11]

That loss of a few components is confusing. If reels are made specifically for this machines, why don't they put a small plastic buffer at the start to save a few components?

[@cryptology3975]

Reels have thousands of components on them. One reel is not necessarily used for just one run of boards, so every time they have to put a partially-used reel into the machine, they'd have to add that buffer to the start of the reel. The cost of the components lost is going to be far less than the cost of the time it would take someone or something to add a "buffer" to the start of the partially-used reel every time it's put into the machine.

[@PlayZilla.Studio]

Is the SMD LED supposed to be upside down?

[@doodh_jalebi]

Hey Dave, what was that little cartoon character thing on the left of the battery holder. At 07:58

[@danielaustin7643]

what was the exact problem with the re-reeled components?

[@doctorkiller0]

how much did it cost for those 20 boards?

[@snik2pl]

Can you say more about LED placing? it's upside down on your board, so how it gets flipped by machine.

[@goognamgoognw6637]

Dave, it would have complimented this video if you gave the economics of assembly cost you paid for that particular panelized board on that assembly line. I find quoted online prices for assembly are crazy high, multiple times the cost of the pcb manufacturing and components. I need to get my prototypes built and I am seriously considering getting a Manncorp batch reflow oven MC301 for $5K, it would pay itself after 10-15 assembly jobs. The other issue is I don't trust cheap chinese assembly place to honor a NDA (non disclosure agreement) and resell your design idea in China through some underground reverse engineering channel market.

[@nerdydev]

what ever happen to your open hardware pick and place idier?