EEVblog

Defibrillator Teardown!
Inside the Heartsine Samaritan Pad AED heart defibrillator.
Forum: www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eev...
Datasheets:
www.mouser.com/ds/2/205/CS20-2...
www.vishay.com/docs/94386/vs-3...
www.mouser.com/ds/2/196/irg4ph...
www.fairchildsemi.com/datashe...
www.promelec.ru/pdf/ISD4004.pdf
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[@Dust599]

A defibrillator does not restart the heart. It stops a dysfunctional rhythm. A very common misconception

[@benduffy4223]

Right!!

[@mgkleym]

Whats more it can only treat certain kinds of shock able arrhythmia and it does so by stopping the heart in hopes that it will restart its self in a proper rhythm.

[@Star250]

Does a dysfunctional rhythm in the heart give off a pulse and if so how do you know when to use the AED?

[@AnthonyShuker]

layman's terms

[@johndoe2010090]

+Star250 If a person collapses and they have no pulse attach the AED. It will analysis the heart rhythm and decide if it should deliver a shock or not. It will then prompt you to either press the shock button or not.

[@dsfryda]

Hi Dave, I think the reason for the internal coin battery is that these devices record the heart rhythm for later retrieval at the hospital, or for the ME (Medical Examiner). Those contacts which attach to that USB cable is what they use at the hospital to removed that data. Plus the clock circuit would be needed to record how long the machine was turned on, how long the patient was in a certain type of arrhythmia and the waveforms before and after the shock was delivered. All that data is recorded and used for statistical analysis.

[@DiodeGoneWild]

Sad thing - this has to be so much 100% reliable and certified that finally it's price prevents it from becoming widespread. In the end, instead of having a 99.9% reliable defibrilator, you have none in the place and the patient dies.

[@standidderen9270]

Actually, in the Netherlands they’re everywhere

[@mikeselectricstuff]

For incident logging, you read the current RTC value at time of readout, and subtract from the timestamps in the log, so only the drift between the short interval between incident and readout matters. RTC may also be used for expiry/service interval enforcement

[@CrazyLogic]

I was going to say almost exactly the same, after use they pull the data, they can apply a time correction if needed.

[@lanimereala]

Or may be the RTC is used for the Expiry Date. Something like if it expires (goes over the date specified on the device label/programmed into the IC) it stops working? Dunnno, may be another explanation that i thought about after i saw the actual device has an expiry date?

[@just5444]

why you copy my profile pic

[@GeckonCZ]

*facepalm*

[@EEVblog]

Yes, of course. Forgot about that. We used to do this with seismic data loggers. Even with the best clocks we could get there would be some offset, so the data is read back later and drift correction applied across all the loggers.

[@JohnAudioTech]

Yes! Tear down that isolation probe.

[@TheTruthSentMe]

I'd love see a teardown of the LeCroy differential probes.

[@aldi175]

+1, I really wonder why these things are so damn expensive. Maybe make a EEVblog div probe?

[@chrisridesbicycles]

I'd like to see that too. The are so handy for measurements in circuits with various ground levels.

[@EEVblog]

They are a niche market. But even the cheap brands are 3-$400

[@alextrofimov7947]

SCR Fundamentals Friday would be lovely, too.

[@chrisridesbicycles]

+EEVblog And there are not so many different OEMs. We have several brands that look exactly the same

[@JonLovelace]

In reference to the caps you were wondering about, Cornell Dublier makes a lot of special pulse rated caps so they may be just a jelly bean part for them. A lot of people use them for huge cap arrays in large Tesla coil designs because they can handle the stress of a disruptive discharge circuit, being charged and then discharged at high frequencies through a spark gap. As I'm sure you know, if you try this with just any old HV cap it will most likely explode.

[@electronicsNmore]

Several nice components to salvage. Very nice teardown.

[@ImolaS3]

Would love to see a differential probe reverse engineer and teardown. Love the videos Dave, thanks for all you've taught me so far!

[@Seansmit23]

Oh another one! I love these medical tear-downs!

[@phantom349uj]

one of your more interesting videos. I love the pondering of why the designers made certain decisions

[@Garganzuul]

Absolutely! High-voltage sensing is important for a piezo project of mine!

[@KanalFrump]

Very cool teardown and analysis!

[@ChristopherJohnsons]

I love these teardowns, the re'ing and the DaveCAD drawings. Please give us more ;)

[@freshgasflow]

Absolutely fantastic demonstation. Thank you. I will be contacting you regarding some clarifications. Thank you for putting this online

[@Money4Nothing]

Dave, Love your Vblog! Keep it up please!

[@JessHull]

I would really like to see more EEVblog of medical stuff like this! This was a bobby dazzler of an episode.

[@bobster1982]

For someone who has one in his bag at work! (never used apart from training) this was great to see! and as for the probe teardown, when don't we want to see you rip something apart!

[@Zetex2000]

YES! Dave, please do an Fundamentals Friday on SCR and TRIAC's and such, would be amazing. Great tear-down!

[@scottfirman]

I see a lot of good quality usable parts perfect for robotics,other such projects,even a battery jump starter. lots of tear down goodness in there.

[@neardood1]

Really well explained, thanks Dave!

[@wuddadid]

As an Irish man, I am delighted that Dave said "Hi to all my Irish viewers" instead of "Hi to all my British viewers"

[@VoidHalo]

Your voice is almost like Shepherd's Tone. It seems like it just gets higher and higher and higher and then starts back again at a lower tone, only to seem to get higher and higher again. I dunno if that's just natural talent, or if you worked on that for a good long time, but I love it!

[@gorillaau]

PUT: Patient Under Test. If the equipment doesn't work, you are ka--put! Makes sense.

[@TKomoski]

When I heard him say that that was Hilarious ...

[@TKomoski]

In my land it's ka-putski

[@googleiscensorship34]

PUS Patient Under Stress.

[@gorillaau]

+Google+ is Censorship I'm not getting involved on that stuff... running the other way. If it blows I don't want to be anywhere near it.

[@TKomoski]

Use flux to flow

[@esnam6557]

very nice tear down, thank you

[@ismzaxxon]

I am a veteran IC paramedic. one thing that has amazed/anoyed me is how much markup there is on AEDs in Australia. What you can get for a few hundred dollars overseas costs 800 up in Australia. That is market protection for you. There was a rule to have them in public places, but they were stoled by low life people, so the law was relaxed.

[@KarlBaron]

For the clock, maybe a relative time works just as well ("I was activated 10 hours and 15 minutes ago"). I also wonder if the clock could be used for the expiration date of the pads - it could refuse to activate if they're expired.

[@pelor92]

the expire date on the pads is exactly for the adhesive/conductive paste, since if it dries off too muche there might be problems, especially in men whith a lot of chest hair that already raise the resistance of the patient quite a bit, in fact in the AED pouch we have also a smal razor blade to shave the area (of course it very much depends on the situation if it get used or not)

[@Les_Grossman]

I agree about the clock- but I do not think the device will refuse to work? Friendly voice saying : I am Sorry- I am expired and your dead?? I would expect who ever installed it is realiable for swapping them in time? Would be interesting to know though....

[@rownadoherty]

My instant thoughts of RTC were for expiration.

[@trickyrat483]

Cracking video, Dave. Enjoyed that greatly. A Big Thumbs Up! :)

[@gfrias06]

Awesome video. Thanks!

[@nathanzhou3263]

The usb cable is mostly for download the recorded data. When the pads connects to human body, it can act like a heart monitor that constantly record data to its internal memory and doctor can get those data by the usb cable.

[@masretta]

...and of course the legendary "Wun Hung Low". At least you gave us a "Bob is your uncle" on this one. Thanks :)

[@jacobdykstra8499]

SCR Fundamental Friday! Sounds like a good idea Dave!

[@RaabinatorCr]

Maybe he could then tell us how a scr turns off while current flowing through it... I think they used the IGBTs therefore...

[@kevincozens6837]

Interesting teardown as usual but we didn't get to see those big chips up close this time. Aww. I'll have to look at the hi-res photos.

[@zachbrenner9959]

Oh, oh, oh. Lifepack 15 teardown!

[@redtails]

These things are not for when someone gets a heart attack, which is when a blockage occurs in the blood vessels of the heart and the heart is deprived of oxygen. This device is to restart an arrested heart.

[@jusaca01]

Very cool teardown! Love the reverse engineering ;) I'm very interested in medical devices and want to choose this field for my master studies, so I'm looking forward for other cool teardowns like this =)

[@xavierm.3414]

Hi Dave! Yes please, make a video about differential probes! Why are they so expensive ? What's inside? is it reasonnable to build your own, regarding safety issues? Would love to see a dedicated video to this topic.

[@CSDexter2]

The flyback diode(s) you were looking for is inside the coil, you can see the silver coloured terminal going into the air core from one side. They used a PTH one instead of the two SMD ones.

[@michaelhofmann5091]

Very Interesting!Neat drawing! :P

[@alancordwell9759]

The key thing about those electrolytic capacitors is that they are +/- 10% tolerance unlike a bog standard 'lytic that can be anything up to +80% -20%. For this application, that means that for a given voltage, the pulse energy is guaranteed to be the design value +/- 10%. It also means, for capacitors in series, that the charge will be more evenly distributed among the individual caps.

[@StuReedy]

PUT! Oh, yeah! Thanks, Dave!

[@318michel]

Dave; 2:33 ; an aed does NOT give a shock when you have NO hartbeat. Only when the hart fibrilate it will give a shock. Its one of the things a lot of people doesnt know. The aed will tell you then to start hartmassage and checks the progression.

[@stationplaza4631]

I hope your leg is now feeling a whole lot better.

[@tohopes]

Please do a Fundamentals Friday on IGBTs as well.

[@broken-programmer]

The AED cable is used to download the data of an incident. The waveform data and shock data can be downloaded.

[@juliannicholls]

I'd certainly like to see the differential probe teardown.

[@odioaleman]

I will love to see a FF on thyristors. Love the vid :)

[@BrekMartin]

The one I trained with had similar labelling on the pads, one for the chest, and one lower, but the plug wasn't keyed, so they could go either way.

[@WouterWeggelaar]

the rtc is most likely there to be able to schedule self tests. you can most likely get the test report using that USB cable.

[@antalz]

It says to apply CPR if needed, because a shock isn't always effective. For the AED to work, the heart must be in a "shockable" rhythm, like ventricular fibrilation (hence the word "defibrilator). Some other rhythms including a complete flatline aka asystole can not be fixed with a shock. In these cases CPR must be performed first, which hopefully pushes the heart into a different rhythm that is shockable. I am obviously not a doctor. Don't take medical advice from a comment on an EEVblog youtube video.

[@superdau]

How can the SCRs turn off, when there's still voltage on the caps/current flowing? The clock maybe just there to start beeping, when the time for the pads is up or there is some calibration/check to be done at certain intervals.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

cap+ and cap- terminals may be for an external cap for other models.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Or instead of, for a different build version.

[@stephenrowley4171]

traces are bit smaller than the onboard caps, you'd expect that if it had external pac the traces would be of least the same thickness. I would suspect its more likely that its for diagnosis.

[@08Ultrasonic]

I would say that the trace widths are a little mixed up. The traces between the caps are significantly larger than anywhere else on the board. Not to mention that caps series have an overall reduced capacitance. So they're in series to achieve the desired voltage and not power. So i suspect that the output current is not what you suspect at the sight of the size and number of capacitors. You'll also notice that the traces where the pads plug in to the board are a very similar width to the cap+/- outputs. I would say that they're for a different model. It seems like a bad idea to have those traces just for testing

[@maxtorque2277]

i suspect they are for a Coulomb counting rig to validate the actual installed Joules at EOL test? ie, device put into test mode, charges caps to defined voltages, then rig slowly discharges them though some resistance and integrates the total current that flows?

[@EEVblog]

Maybe, but the traces are smaller

[@rayhowe4354]

God this bloke goes on and on,you have time to make one.

[@Wintersky136]

Belfast is Nothern Ireland (part of the UK)!

[@NikhilHande030490]

For your question on whether the caps should be medical certified, YES they need to be medical compliant.

[@rjk7104]

Turn it on, Dave!

[@masretta]

I miss "We're in like Flynn!" Dave. That and "Bobby dazzler" and "trap for the young players" are kind of your "catch frases". Don't stop saying that. :)

[@rhkips]

It's worth mentioning, these shouldn't be used on someone having a heart attack. They're intended for people suffering cardiac arrest, and may actually cause more damage if used on someone suffering an infarction!

[@GoodOneGarza]

Awesome

[@MrHalfLoaf]

I'd love to see the teardown of the probe as well! I may be confused though, with the second phase: Would the relays need to open in order to shut the SCRs down between phases?

[@kemonoyama2084]

Yes, please RevDev the Differential Probe!

[@neosandi6]

Dave please make this explanation for Arduino. This I understand most of it would be helpful to me and I believe and others with the Arduino board to understand more of its microcontroller. Your knowledge is deep, and you know what you're talking about, I believe that with your help and with your Arduino Teardown plus scheme like this. I'm not asking all the details, but I was grateful to learn something more from you for Arduino. After all you are the best.

[@doomjunkie00]

The AED's at my work record all the patient information and can tell if you perform CPR or not...might be the reason there is the crystal and chip you were wondering about. We have had the information in the AED requested via subpoena for a lawsuit.

[@dangrie158]

Hey Dave, I see a lot of the components on the HV side are only soldered onto one side of the PCB (e.g. the dropper resistors at 15:33). Why is is so? I always thought that a two-sided Pad will help stress relieving when the components wiggle a bit. What are the advantages of a one-sided through-hole pad? Also it looks like the outermost pads on the high voltage transformer are missing on the pcb footprint, or does it only look like it?

[@ErdeAnAlle]

It does not matter if the RTC drifts over the years as you just need the time between the use and readout of the log which should be happening within days or weeks at most, where the RTC is going to be really accurate (seconds is good enough anyway).

[@SuperAWaC]

surprised not to see a microphone. most of these start recording audio once they are turned on.

[@TechyBen]

They have one of these at the local Mini market (Co-Op for those in the UK) down the road. Hope it never needs to be used, but may do a great job if it is.

[@PlasmaHH]

A teardown of such a probe would be most useful if it came with enough information to create a DIY one. There is just so much lab equipment a hobbyist can not afford that seems to be hard to create yourself but when you went through its details, it isnt that hard anymore.

[@zman1508]

very cool always wondered how these things work

[@arridexerandco]

Fuckin ciggie butt brain!

[@zman1508]

+arridexerandco Naa mate the other guy was the ciggy butt brain

[@tHaH4x0r]

If you liked it, check out mikes channel (mikeselectricstuff) he has a few teardowns of different types of diffibrilators.

[@mwbgaming28]

+zman1508 you only called him ciggy butt brain so you could pocket his lighter next time go to the servo and get your own

[@martinkuliza]

Hi dave FYI, that cable thingy is for Firmware update and for training. my friends runs an R.T.O. for Paramedical Training the cable plugs into the AED and then other side into a Rhythm simulator that the instructor can throw at the trainee medic while the dummy is hooked up to the defib all the instructor has to do is press a button and select different cardiac conditions the device is basically a glorified waveform generation take care mate as always good videos

[@JoshWright396]

PAD AEDs don't have a training mode (and aren't used by paramedics). AED training is done with cheap 'trainer' units that don't have capacitors, etc, just a speaker, some 'smarts' and an IR receiver that lets the instructor control it with a remote. Training for more advanced units used by paramedics is done by simulating the heart rhythm directly through the EKG leads. The heart monitor doesn't know it isn't hooked up to a real patient. The USB cable is used for firmware updates, as you mentioned, and to download a 'replay' of the incident if it is used.

[@insoft_uk]

We need a LeCroy differential teardown, yes yes, take it apart

[@AffordBindEquipment]

I was kind of expecting him to fire that thing up and show some scope pics off the pads of it doing what it was designed for.

[@JohnDoe-eh4id]

The equipment might use the RTC to regularly do self tests and the Usb might help readig the self test data out to determine if the equipment is still in good condition.

[@wolfpackgaming629]

John Doe is that the battery he was talking about? was thinking it might be used to set off an as alarm after the device gets too old.

[@IJMacD]

+EEVblog Dave at 29:30 you're talking about the lack of diodes across the inductor. What I've been wondering is where does the energy in the field go since I didn't think the reverse spike would go through the SCRs. Is it just dissipated as heat somehow? I hope you don't mind the question, I'm just trying to get to grips with some fundamentals since its nearly Friday!

[@danielneve9997]

They told me to get an AED for the Boston marathons and to keep it with me but u got confused and got an IED 🙄

[@danielneve9997]

Shit kinda blew up after that

[@yuh6094]

LMAO 😂😂

[@grythumn]

During my cpr training, they told us to leave the leads and pads alone after shocking... the whole shebang goes to the hospital with the patient and they'll pull the data there. So the absolute time isn't as important, just relative time.

[@vlee489]

We are Northern Irish, Ireland is a different country

[@EEVblog]

At least I got the right continent

[@keeperofthegood]

HAHA so is Australia only a little bit bigger :P

[@mark7664]

Isn't Ireland a geographical location comprising of the ROI and Northern Ireland? 'Ireland' isn't a country just like Great Britain isn't either.

[@vlee489]

+Mark Tritschler, Ireland is a island comprising of two place, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland is principality of Great Britain, and is not a country in it's own right. Although there are two counties on on this island, the don't have a enforced boarder as both are a part Europe (for now) so we can travel freely.

[@IRCXDS]

I just read another comment that said Belfast is Northern Ireland but Ireland is Ireland apart from the regional accents. Would love to visit Southern Ireland because I'd have trouble translating the Northern language but I guess my iPhone could help speak English to Northern. Never left the states yet :(

[@nickpckles8902]

Yes let's hear the voice playback!

[@Blakspire]

that USB is probably to download the audio file. most have a microphone and record while being used.

[@anthonyvolkman2338]

Yes, those caps are custom, inside and AED and even Defibs in a hospital that are used by medical professionals are still QC in all aspects, the caps must be within a very tight tolerance of ESR and just as importantly their ESL along with dielectric leakage current. That is beyond important for these. I use caps designed for Defibs for all my high current resonance circuits. Such as the rail caps for ZVS drivers, high power RF circuits, Regen Breaking for BLDC motor drivers (ESC), Tesla Coils especially the HFSSTC (High Frequency Solid State Tesla Coil) every one that build even slater knows that you can't use electrolytic caps on slayer exciter and HFSSTC designs. Even a DRSSTC will work much better using that type of cap.

[@gregkrobinson]

Maybe the stickers on top of the electro's are for leakage current matching, I didn't see any balancing resistors for the series bank, so that would be my best guess.

[@KentuckyRanger]

@ 13:13 My guess is this is why there's a crystal in there. It would be a rock solid way to time shocks with little chance of something going wrong. Just a guess...

[@TopRacer2002]

Bifasic Defibrillators can have their pads reversed on the person. Also, charging time normally takes seconds (about 3 to 5s on the ones I use).

[@The6677yu]

10:44 It would only need to accurately measure the time between being used and a cop/emt reading off the time of discharge. They would just subtract that from the current time.

[@Arekaka00]

im really interested in making a floating ground probe, might get some inspiration from the design, i'd love to see a teardown video on one of this

[@Teukka72]

A thought for Fundamentals Friday: Design of resistive voltage dividers for cases where the measured voltage is greater than the supply of the opamp or IC measuring stuff?

[@OmarMekkawy]

Nice video Dave, Could you test this device and show the waveform on the oscilloscope ?

[@ericcindycrowder7482]

I liked the video, but I wish you went over the digital micro controller section of the board. Maybe a part 2 teardown video?

[@kemonoyama2084]

BMEET Ret. Yes... all is components used in medical devices are subject to the classification of the device. A class I II III is assigned to devices according to the level of control they are incorporated in. Class I monitoring, II control or III monitoring and control. The capacitors are most likely class II.

[@MorRobots]

Well Dave, looks like we know how you messed your knee up at 32:00 :P Id love to see a FF on IGBT's and SCRS.

[@hoggif]

Differential probe teardown/reverse engineering would be great! The are not too many such videos available.

[@RobertBardos]

pretty neat

[@nekomasteryoutube3232]

The Difib machines I find around where I live, like at schools, libraries, and Hospitals, are of the paddle type, also they're not a single shock, they're actually powered I believe but also have a battery incas eof power loss

[@michaelwoermann7986]

the Cristal would probs only start recording time after the event so that the time passed could be compared to the current time and therefore an exponentially more accurate tine would be given because of the short time between the event and the check

[@DanielPierce]

Maybe those are water test dots, try getting one of the stickers wet a bit to see if it changes colors?

[@Vidicon31]

Go and play around with it. disconnect the high volts and try getting a ecg. (but please be carfull!!)

[@kennethng8346]

Is it considered good engineering to put diodes in parallel with a string of capacitors in series? Are there any general guides as to when and when not to do it?

[@nikomo]

The RTC could also make the device start shouting that it has expired. Imagine one of those at a mall yelling that it's out of date. Would get replaced fast. Or thrown in the trash and forgotten.

[@tonikonsa2542]

I would very much like to see a teardown differential probes. :)

[@bighh1525]

If only we have one person like you in Iran ....