How to ID a Mystery Microcontroller

[@ccoder4953]

Google is generally well known to not give the same results to different people searching for the same thing. It tries to guess based on past search terms what you're looking for. Which actually makes sense since lots of terms have different meanings in different contexts. That part is probably in your search results, but lower down.

[@elvendragonhammer5433]

This is true, & it can also depend not only on your location, but on your state, providence, & country as well.

[@gblargg]

I got it on first hit by using lqfp44 as the X post listed. Not qfp44 and not tqfp44.

[@change_your_oil_regularly4287]

Location, past searching etc all play a part in returned results and the order they are given 👍

[@mechanoid5739]

I've had this. Both my wife and myself searching the same thing on Bing. She on her laptop and me on my PC at the same time, in the same room with the same router connected to the internet. Totally different searches come up. Happens with Amazon searches too!

[@francismendes]

Once I saw an interview with someone from Google and he stated that they use at least 27 "signals" for a search. That's why there's no two equal search results.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

If you were one of those annoying companies that remove chip numbers in the hope of stopping copying, marking pin 1 in the wrong place would be an evil way to confuse people!

[@JurassicJenkins]

True, but you can’t move VPP, so the measurement rules.

[@mosquito520]

Wrong silkprint might cause another disaster, if SMT factory follow the silkprint to mount the components without notification

[@Rotwold]

​@@mosquito520eh, it's worth the risk of protecting the precious bizniz zecretz

[@bobert4522]

@@mosquito520do they even follow silkscreen? Apart from fiducial marks of course. Kinda figured theses days silkscreen is practically just for the engineers/designers.

[@Validole]

It will confuse the hell out of the guy programming the AOI machine... And the guy programming the pick and place machine... After all, the standardisation in the industry, while better now than 5 years ago, is still a mess of different proprietary methods declared as standard. Production line engineers do assume every data packet that reaches their desk is faulty, and that's how many faults are found before mass production. And they have to check the data sheets of the components anyway to make sure the zero position in the reel is according to standard (and which standard). This is why the first time you produce a new version of a design, they'll tack on "one-time engineering cost". I've had a production batch saved by the sharp eyes of a production engineer, when I changed the pin numbering of a from-ECAD-provided library diode component to match IPC standard (which it didn't by default), but forgot to change the silkscreen. So the production engineer at the assembly house asked "what is this shit, your silk and your assembly documentation don't match" and I was like "oh shit" and then realized I'd also forgotten to change the numbers on the matching pins on the schematic (because of course the matching library symbol came with pin numbers hidden so it didn't get caught in review), so all my diodes would have been backwards if they didn't check it. (this was rev 2 of the board, and the diode part number (and footprint) change was one of the few needed changes, with no functional schematic changes, so the schematic was considered sound and didn't go through the full review. Which wouldn't have caught it because at the time, there was no point in the review procedure that said "verify that the diode symbol is actually standard". It's excuses, basically, but it also demonstrates well the Swiss cheese model of failures)

[@alexhajnal107]

On LCSC one can narrow the package type with the search field at the top of the list. Entering "-44" (without the quotes) will give (mostly) the 44-pin packages.

[@GRBtutorials]

On top of that, it supports regex! So you can actually filter it out to give you just the 44 pin micros. For example, the regex -44(\(.*x.*\))?$ gives me all the 44 pin packages, except for the irregular LCC(J-44-LEAD).

[@adamarzo559]

@@GRBtutorials Truly legendary buddy.

[@AndrewMerts]

So the Google search results being different is an obscure problem. If you try it again and scroll down to the bottom I think you'll find that for you, it's the 2nd result from the bottom. This is of course due to searching from Australia so you need to turn it back right side up for it to make sense.

[@paulf1071]

I was thinking that maybe Barsteward meant the 2nd results page of the Google search.

[@unixux]

Is there an engine that only searches datasheets and whatnot, but does so better then google and other general purpose pseudo-SEs ? Kinda like Lexis-Nexis but for engineers instead of lawyers

[@christiancampbell466]

On the LCSC parametric search I imagine you could type 44 into the search box above the package column to filter for only packages with 44 in their name.

[@donondre7314]

that works

[@therealjammit]

We need a crowd sourced database with a pinout types lookup table.

[@bonbonpony]

YAS!

[@cbs1710]

Seconding this.

[@sausage5849]

Anyone else thinking DAVE USE the SEARCH function to filter the package type? 🙂

[@TradieTrev]

LadyAda is really good on her vids to explain how to search electronic components

[@VeritasEtAequitas]

@@TradieTrev Limor ((Fried)), cringe. They rip off other designs, overprice baby's first project as a "module" and pretend to be geniuses. Typical IP theft and usury, given their figurehead.

[@WacKEDmaN]

on duck duck go... the SD7500 pdf showed up as the 4th and last search result... that other mob...changes your search terms silently in the background....

[@stanthesnail]

I'd be interested to learn where Bar is located (that search result is from a Chinese domain). I'm in the US and I get the same results as Dave when searching Google. DDG and Bing both find it, though.

[@WacKEDmaN]

@@stanthesnail coz they change search results based on what youve searched before and other info they have gained on you.... ...it may show up as 2nd result if youre not logged into google/chrome etc

[@stanthesnail]

​​​@@WacKEDmaNSorry, I updated my reply shortly after posting. I understand they do that to bump up advertisers and to "customize your experience" but it's not just in a different order, it's not there at all. I think it has to do with the fact that the result is from a Chinese domain and also from a non-English website. I thought there was an "English results only" filter but I don't see it anymore (could be because I'm on mobile).

[@TonyJewell0]

I always use duck duck go for searches - it came up as 2nd result for me. I have my DDG search country set as Ireland.

[@Marty234]

​@@TonyJewell0same for me, and it also came up as the 2nd result for me too. Came here to say this but everyone already figured it out 😄

[@JimmyMish]

I found it using LQFP44 at the start, didnt find it with QFP44 or TQFP44

[@remotepeak]

I can confirm it. "qfp44" not showing right result. With "lqfp44" goolge gives correct answer at the top.

[@dimBulb5]

Yes, I had the same results after noticing the guys first post said LQFP44 even though his search expression only showed QFP44.

[@Uro666]

According to the Datasheet P13/RXD and P14/TXD are UART, you could potentially validate your identification of the chip via those pins if it provides info over the UART when it powers on.

[@1kreature]

As you found out: ChatGPT does not know and makes up shit... PIC18-Q24 is available in 28, 40 and 48 pins. NOT normally 44. However they do list a 44-pin TQFP but not with Vpp on pin 1. In fact Vpp on pin 1 is only on DIP/SOIC type packages.

[@RobsonWilliam82]

Since ChatGPT gave me three different values for PI in a simple calculation, I stopped using it.

[@mikeuk1927]

​@@RobsonWilliam82Don't use LLMs for calculations xD

[@AndrewMerts]

What's really surprising is that in this case, it didn't hallucinate the Vpp on pin 1 detail like it normally does. It actually found some reference material claiming that modern PICs have Vpp on pin 1. The reference material was apparently wrong, but that's pretty amazing IMO. As always, verify every single thing it spits back, but LLMs are still making leaps and bounds of progress. What'll this look like in 5 years?

[@bonbonpony]

ChatGPT is like that one dude in your class who acts like he knows everything and always talks a lot with a lot of technical jargon to confuse you, but when you actually check what he told you, you find out that he's pulling all that stuff out of his rear end and just acts smart :J

[@leocurious9919]

@@RobsonWilliam82 That is like not using a hammer because you can not use it to screw or solder. ChatGPT has a ton of extremely good usecases. If you want it to give you pi, just let it write code to do that and you get arbitrary precision beyond any normal calculator. It can even run the code directly without you having to do anything at all. In any case, give it a few more years and all the specific specs of everything could be in a database and automatically fetched to give an extremely good search result.

[@mad_circuits]

You should avoid searching in logged-in state, if you want to have similar, more general results. I can confirm the result, the PDF was the 4th search result hit.

[@douggale5962]

20:58 You can make a script and execute it in the browser developer tools. You can make a loop that selects all of the packages containing a specific bit of text, by injecting events with .click(), or just modifying the form data. Depends on how they did it. Please don't go through manually, get a developer to make you a tool. People say, "I won't need a tool, I'll just do it manually because I only need it once". Then after they do it manually twenty times they say "Man I should have got someone to make a tool for this, but I only need it this one more time, so it's okay"

[@slincolne]

Great solution Dave - so in the future we should just ask you to identify mystery IC's for us :-).

[@der.Schtefan]

So, having a bare die being bonded by a machine instead of soldering gives a total cost saving? Fascinating. I would have imagined this to be incredibly expensive.

[@309electronics5]

A plastic package is to expensive. Epoxy is cheap and the bond wires probably too

[@jaromirjarusek2944]

For most types of packages, chips are wirebonded to leadframe of package anyway. So there is room for cost saving in all those others operations with individial chips and their storage. But it of course makes sense only when dealing with whole wafers with possible thousands of chips.

[@gryzman]

I love that the guy who gave you the answer has mastodon handle on twitter too. Zing.

[@MoritzvonSchweinitz]

Google has discountinued the usage "+" years ago, and replaced it with double-quotes around a word.

[@bonbonpony]

What's worse, "-" seems to be discontinued too, so you cannot exclude unwanted results. Example: You're looking for a classic PCI pinout, and you get PCI-Express flooding your results. You try "-express -pcie", and you just get more PCI-Express results instead of less :P Best Search Engine In The Wold My Arse! :P

[@petevenuti7355]

How do you exclude?

[@franklee663]

I put forward your question to Chatgpt, it gave me some part numbers but not the SD7500. I think the premise of your question was to assume it is a microcontroller.

[@BHSAHFAD]

putting the L in front of QFP44 brought it up, when I just searched for QFP44 it didn't show up.. It will pull if up if you just put LQFP44 VPP P54 no quotes or anything

[@philipandrew1626]

www.google.com/search?q=lqfp44+%22vpp%22+%22p54%22+filetype%3Apdf

[@durandalgmx7633]

Everyone has built up his own google bubble, Dave. Your search results are personal based on your previous actions.

[@simonhopkins3867]

How to find a mystery chip? Don't ask Dave. Do ask his followers. 😂😉 Sorry Dave. Do you want to borrow my glasses.

[@EEVblog]

Hard to beat crowd sourcing.

[@theoriginalbabycub]

Searches are personalised if you are logged in to the browser to two people can have different results or results in a different order depending on users search history.

[@rimmersbryggeri]

if you type pin count in the search box above the package type you should get only the ones witth 44 in the title.

[@cosmogrid]

I noticed our iP adresses also affects our serches a lot.

[@electroquests]

Thanks for the video, Dave, it has been really informative!

[@chrisakaschulbus4903]

This is a very good approach to gathering information. For me it doesn't work... i'm impatient and start screaming at my projects, throwing a fit and all.

[@leewade9798]

Instead of the 'All' search, I sometimes use, 'Images', even though I may not know what I'm searching for looks like. Pretty sure if you took a photo and Google photo searched, that may turn up some results as well.

[@jozsiolah1435]

Laptop battery has a processor, uses one connection for computing. Due to the higher voltage, it doesn't need more connections. In performance mode it helps out the gaming, and the laptop matches its video card type.

[@martinmeijerman4131]

I was wondering, could the JTAGulator have helped here?

[@frankgrudge8823]

Always enjoy the mystery chip videos. Onya Dave

[@mclaarson]

Thats because of server localization. You are asking a server park thats based in Australia somewhere and he is asking a different one based on where he lives. So it makes sense that it comes up with different answer. It must be localization. I dont have it at all among the search results(from eu). Who knows what lvl of localization that hosting server, webpage has aswell. I mean you can tell google to not register and not browse your website anyways maybe this can be localized further.

[@larryslobster7881]

13:38 The links are are from a search it did not training data. Its impossible to see what original training data a LLM contains.

[@MiniLuv-1984]

I used duckduckgo and second hit was the SD7500

[@Rhine_Labs]

Exposed Wafer BGA or Wafer-level packaging "WLCSP" are Common also under the blobs also.

[@John-ev5mr]

I tried 44 "vpp""p54" filetype:pdf, it was on the 3nd link

[@SinsBird]

Copied and pasted this, first result. Couldn't find it otherwise.

[@markmuir7338]

If it had been a ball grid array package, I hear BGAss has all the answers.

[@morthim]

how strange. coming from a software side. the things i would focus to sort and filter are pin count and approximate lengths of package. even if you only know the length and width, ignoring depth, that would get rid of a tremendous portion of wrong chips. also if there is irregular number of pins per side with for example either a missing one or a much larger trace, that would also bring down the number of options. im surprised there isnt a dedicated tool for reversers. the reverser finds out what they know, and filters the options.

[@unixux]

I have this mystery board that I can’t figure out for the life of me, sorta. It has a Microzed that actually boots into Linux, two dacs , two adcs, 16 (!] SMA inputs and outputs and 6+1 Db-9s labeled “laser” and “aero” …

[@Samuel-wi4oc]

I'm curious if flux eda's ai also could reverse engineer an IC given enough components around it.

[@adonisnetworks]

You are one lucky Bar Stewart 😊😂

[@arm-cv7rd]

Maybe it’s better to just search for the pin count rather than also including package type? Wrote this and the correct datasheet was the first result: 44 «vpp» «p54» filetype:pdf

[@gogensart]

I mentioned programming pins and bang - first link // "vpp" "P54" programming pins 37,38,39,40 filetype:pdf

[@worroSfOretsevraH]

When I see that with one click everything is loading instantly for you... On my rusty Q6600 I have to wait ages with every click.

[@Swenser]

I'm throwing items in bin a lot due to programmed microcontrollers faulty and inability to replace them.

[@piotrrze]

For me it worked while searching for: 44 "VPP" "P54" filetype:pdf

[@SerErris]

Yes, second link

[@beyerandrew]

Other place I'd look if I knew pin name & numbers would be ecad symbol libraries, both built-in and anything public on github etc...

[@TymexComputing]

0:52 - we take a look into the schematics of the device and check the name there :)

[@ashtonbrady]

On my first attempt from Ireland, googled Vpp P54 Result: Sd7501 pdf first item Sd7500 pdf second item.

[@joopterwijn]

Yep, same here (EU NL) must be down the drain search down under 😂

[@robertmiller445]

It comes up for me as the 2nd result if I don't use qfp44 at all. Just "vpp" "p54" filetype:pdf

[@309electronics5]

The datasheet i found was in chinese but we atleast know its a mm chipset. It has 16kbytes of otp memory, 8 bit risc mcu, watchdogtimer, 256bytes sram and some chinese block. It has a lcd driver, a buzzer driver, some i/o,some Rc oscillators and some logic. Pretty integrated chip! Also pretty weird but i also got the same result as him by using google/bing/ddg. Seems that it might be random for everyone

[@Schwuuuuup]

For me it is first hit on google - even in incognito mode

[@FrankEdavidson]

They've one column of resistors with the text inverted. Is that on purpose?

[@alanmartin6708]

How do I make the micro voltage inverter with Lithium Cells? Like a power bank any idea!

[@Ratzfaz]

google shows me the 7500 as 1 result if i use LQFP44 not QFP44

[@ronwatkins5775]

@Dave - Wondering if you have a link for that electric screw driver you used a while back? The one which engages when you put pressure in the direction of rotation. Would like to get one of those. Couldn't locate the video though, probably wasn't in the title or description.

[@Mike-ry4ti]

I need to send you a micro tech engine management system, these clowns have someone in their factory, grinding numbers off components😂

[@Tesla42]

Why not just formalizing all datasheets into XML and build a database, where you can search like: "all ICs with Vpp an pin 4 ..."

[@markojojic6223]

I thought that Vcc and Vdd woudl be the thing missed.

[@Breakfast_of_Champions]

By now it's worth paying for Kagi if you want a real search engine.

[@gryzman]

and what on earth is P54?

[@theinspiringengineer-scien6393]

Manufacturer scrubs chip detail - peb layout engineer lables the PCB with the chip type anyway lol :D

[@thekaduu]

P54 means nothing to me...

[@gaelc13]

lqfp44 vpp pin 1 p54 is gg first answer for me. (it needs the leading "l" though)

[@we-are-electric1445]

The alternative would be to use Chat GPT again with the terms he used.

[@VandalIO]

You should have uploaded the pic to Gemini

[@mechanoid5739]

He's a clever little barsteward isn't he!

[@hallcrash]

Try using a VPN into another country. Maybe Google Australia results are not great for these types of searches.

[@markojojic6223]

10:00 Why not search "40"?

[@markojojic6223]

44 I mean.

[@bonbonpony]

How to ID a mystery microcontroller? Step 1: Have millions of followers on Twitter/X who know enough of different microcontrollers :q

[@adamarzo559]

Ai will be the greatest thing to happen to humanity. The problem is that we limit it too much, if we let it run free then AI would evolve to massive levels and humanity would be FAR better off.

[@ilanmagen]

The A rabbit hole 🥕

[@micronetwork]

"p54" "vpp" filetype:pdf 2'nd result on google

[@GERapid]

look at this R17 damn why

[@deadmanwalking6342]

12:28 No ChatGpt dont "actually know" anything, its not alive, knowing requires consciousness, self awareness.

[@smearfo5612]

Anthropomorphism is an effective way to analogize something that would be otherwise difficult or tedious to explain.

[@deadmanwalking6342]

@@smearfo5612 Anthropomorphism is used in religion to project living attributes to dead objects so if you do your in deep troubles.

[@deadmanwalking6342]

@@smearfo5612 Anthropomorphism is in "religion" used to project living thinking attributes to an otherwise dead object and if you have the need to use that to describe AI your in deep trouble and dont understand how a brain functions on a biological level which is not a state machine based on logic level flipping. Most AI patents are described and are filed as a "logic" function.

[@SirDrinksAlot69]

Adding type pdf was one of the difference he used your not.

[@DavidUnderhill]

The most useless PCB with a scrubbed MCU I have seen was an assembled Microcomputer board from an aussie company that was a clone of a silicon chip project that featured a MicroChip PIC32 MCU. Not hard to find out what MCU they used.

[@vladimir66cz45]

my name is Stewart.. AI Stewart :)

[@namenotshown9277]

interesting "how to id a chip" and someone else found it, should be called 'how not to id a chip" ..........what the? to negative? Google algorithmn depends on alot of things and your previous searches, so everyone gets different results, location effects it also.

[@eyezonmy6]

it could even be a boat!

[@CarlVanWormerAE7GD]

Too long - don't read unless you have too much spare time . . . I’m doing a reverse engineering project on a design that is probably 15 years old. No surface mount, standard DIP packages, linear regulators, etc. The original creator died, and there are no documents available. There are 3 ICs that have their top-marks removed. One seems to be a 7400 (NAND) package, while the other 2 are stranger . . . I’m hoping somebody in this group might have used parts similar to these and will recognize the non-obvious parts. Chat GPT 3.5 and 4 have lied to me a lot in multiple queries. I've downloaded PDFs of most of the National Semi data books and searched for part #2 thinking it must be an astable multivibrator but found nothing with connections to 12V and GND on pins 15 and 12. I hope to get the board on my bench so I can determine which pins are inputs and which are outputs, but it is currently being used for production. Part 1: 8-pin DIP Pin - connection/measured voltage 1 - Ground 2 - 1.8V 3 - 0.3V 4 - Ground 5 - 5V (power) 6 - 5V (not to power, may be pull-up) 7 - 5V (power) 8 - 5V (power) Part 2: 16-pin DIP 1 - 2.9V 2 - 2.9V 3 - 0.2V 4 - 46kHz, 1uS pulses to 4.3V (probably an output) 5 - 46kHz ramp from 0.7V to 3.4V (probably related to nearby cap and trimpot) 6 - 3.6V 7 - connected to pin 5 8 - 0.3V 9 - 2.9V 10 - 3.8V 11 - 0.1V 12 - Ground (at 12V linear regulator) 13 - 12V (not power) 14 - 0.1V 15 - 12V (power at 12V linear regulator) 16 - 5.1v Thanks, Carl

[@maxthehuman004]

Short answer - ask someone who knows

[@JeromeDemers]

why use google when you have the best Twitter fans!?

[@johng.1703]

LQFP44 "vpp" "p54" filetype:pdf brings it up as the first search term for me

[@b0ntr4g3r3]

get the utility knife out and scratch the surface. Might give a few clues too.

[@SianaGearz]

There's nothing to scratch, it's a gloptop.

[@СвятовитСоляник-л1б]

Chip osint

[@VeritasEtAequitas]

"Asian sourced" ;) Just say Chinese. Japaneses and Korean chips are also "asian sourced", so let's be more specific and correct.

[@yoppindia]

Dave had enough of electronics, now he is into gambling, maybe you can use that trick to pick stocks and become billionaire.

[@brunosuperman]

Google is getting worse every day! I can't find anything that isn't really basic.

[@landspide]

Can I speak to a Bar, Bar Steward please?

[@iuries]

You just search the exact string "LQFP44 with Vpp on pin 1 and p54 on pin 37" and... wiener wiener checker diener :D

[@udayangas]

lqfp44 "vpp" "p54" filetype:pdf

[@PeterVanHertum]

a bit over enthusiastic about the chatgpt's 2 wrong useless answers

[@realedna]

Why rambling on for 15+ mins about methods and ideas that were wrong and lead nowhere as if they were helpful/insightful? Could have been a 2-5min video. I failed, asked on twitter and someone used Google with the right search terms.

[@槑]

还得靠[人工智能]🤣

[@sigitaspetrauskas646]

Useless 23 minutes of talk about how bad are you to use google search. Use documentation and vpn to get results you search for

[@kingsmateo5328]

Nice try "vpp" "p54" filetype:pdf

[@clearz3600]

You are missing an L at the start try "lqfp44 vpp p54 filetype:pdf" Google autocorrected it for me.

[@0nyxghost]

Was the third link when searching... qfp44 "vpp" "p54" filetype.pdf Easy