eevBLAB #5 - Are Mixed Signal (MSO) Oscilloscopes Worth The Money?

[@SatyajitRoy2048]

Transparency is all that beauty of your channel.

[@herveherry]

Thank you very much Dave, you answered all the questions I had before buying an oscilloscope. I was hesitating between Rigol DS1054Z and DS1074Z Plus (thinking I would perhaps buy the RPL1116 MSO addon package in the future). But I'll follow your advice because I don't need a logic analyzer at the moment. Watching your video ended up convincing me. So thanks for your help !

[@duality4y]

I have the scope but I need the logic analyzer functionality so i am thinking of buying the addon

[@photonspawn212]

Glad I found your video before I pulled the trigger on buying an MSO. Thanks!

[@cthree87]

One of your best! I have been waffling on choosing between the DS and MSO and you've helped, thanks!

[@zebedie2]

Thanks for the info on the MSO, I was actually considering the exact same question recently for a new Rigol I'm thinking of getting

[@vkottler]

Before watching this I was in danger of chasing red herrings until the cows come home. Thanks Dave for setting things straight for me!

[@JAKOB1977]

I thought he referred to red-haired people, and it perhaps was the aussie norm back in the days to chase them until the cows come home.. and I thought meeh some red hairs do have a temper' and this old history in some regions is weird, even though the politically correct would have a field day if you chased red-haired people until the cows come home... but it looks like it its a "fish" that the saying is referring to.

[@HavanaWoody]

Dave, thank you for your extensive reviews and especially these kind of distinctions.

[@sbrazenor2]

My two favorite quotes of this Blab were the "I don't use that Facebook bullshit." & "It's like pushing brown stuff up a hill with a pointy stick." You should do comedy Dave ( EEVblog ).

[@leppie]

I go on facebook about 2 times a year. One time is normally a few days after my birthday, to thank you for posted wishes. The other time is not memorable :D

[@Falcrist]

I go check it about once every other day. I find it a convenient way to keep in touch with friends and family.

[@DjResR]

I use it as a bookmark storage and short story/alternative photography publishing place, I go there once/twice a day for few minutes to do what I have to do and close it. I also have adblock enabled on that site so they can shovel their ads up theirs. :D

[@0xbenedikt]

Couldn't agree more, leppie. It's exactly the same for me.

[@viesturssilins858]

Dave, I had a terrible dream tonight where you had made a new YT channel where you spent all your time opening Kinder Surprise eggs in front of the camera with flashy special effects and wearing colorful Hawaiian shirts. I am scared now. This was a very nice video though, thank you.

[@EEVblog]

Viesturs Siliņš If I did that I'd have billions of views and be earning millions of dollars a year for making easier videos. Who the hell wants that?

[@mbaker335]

I do. I could watch that for hours and hours and hours. Especially if there is a lot of glitter.

[@byungjaelee5110]

lol

[@viesturssilins858]

@René Huizinga Good advice! I am much better in that regard now.

[@mathiasguthoff2272]

fantastic ! He really addressed all my concerns, questions, etc. Great !!!

[@spoon188]

Dave love your channel, and I'm really glad you answered this about MSO scopes, I was seriously considering getting one for my Lab, but until I can't do it with a 4 channel I will save myself some bucks. I do find it hilarious that this "Blab" video is over 10 minutes long. I knew as soon as you introduced the "eevBlab" series that you would never be able to keep them under 5 minutes.

[@jwrtiger]

Very informative video and answered his question well. I am in agreement on everything you said... great job.

[@somebody88888]

This video is exact answer for my question! Brilliant! Thank you!

[@arindambala6079]

Really Helpfull for Me. Thankyou Sir. I am also thinking of buying an entry level oscilloscope. And watched the review and detail information and teardown video of Dave. I think Rigol DS 1054z is a classic masterpiece. Thankyou sir.

[@ethzero]

4:56 "... and you can chase red herrings until the cows come home". I think I'm gonna need a Mixed Metaphor Analyser for that one 😜

[@ivanv754]

Aaaah I feel like you're bringing back the old EEVBlog, with lot of test gear and infromation :->

[@Alfredo1987a]

"... pushing brown stuff up a hill with a pointy stick." I laughed my ass off!! I love your videos!

[@nagyizee]

Doesn't wort to spend money on serial bus decoding option on the Rigol. It decodes only the waveform on the screen - max 70 bytes for SPI and ~8 bytes on UART. I sampled 10kb worth of SPI data in the memory, if you zoom it in for the right level it gives valid data (if it catches the beginning of transmission on the screen) but zooming out or scrolling will mess up everything and it can not decode. All these stuff in Stop mode. Would be fine if it would work for the whole sample memory but it works only for screen. Good for educational purposes but nothing professional, don't worth the money.

[@danielaustin7643]

i find the 4 channels more than enough for most logic analysis i do

[@polemonwurst]

Thumbs up for not using Facebook. It makes me almost feel like an outcast being one of the few people out there not using "social" networks.

[@ScottHenion]

The only thing about the small logic analyzers is they tend to disappear. I had a PodAlyzer that was great (18ch/100ms/sec) but it got bought out, absorbed for a different use and support ended. I now have Saelig 18-channel analyzer. Works well. The software is a bit awkward. In less than a year, it disappeared off their site. No more updates to the software. I may be able to get ZeroPlus software to work. I have used the trigger out of a scope to trigger the logic analyzer.

[@sturmwind1180]

Great, no nonsense analysis as usual.

[@ryanmcdougall7470]

I saw you do this live on the dropcam. Awesome!

[@ThingsWhichArentWork]

Nice Dave - That was exactly what I thought when I was considering the MSO variant - ended up deciding that I'd rather have the cheaper (hackable) DSO and a USB analyser instead. Cheers!!

[@tmaster21]

DONE!,you save-me a ton os money today .i'm orthering my osciloscope for my laboratory/repair shop that im just opening just for repair laptops and phones...

[@Cybeonix]

Great comparison, especially on the user interface stuff.

[@gamingSlasher]

Thanks, I was also thinking about the MSO version but this convinced me that I dont need it.

[@johnrobinson4445]

So, the short story is: No. MSO's, at this budget level, are not worth it. Better to get a dedicated logic analyzer hooked up to a PC.

[@simonbaxter8001]

How things change! ... in 2020, Saleae are now REALLY expensive and the 'MSO1104Z' is obsolete and replaced with the 'DS1104Z Plus' which now comes with all the software options as standard (£480) and has the MSO built in as standard. You need to but the optional 16 channel probe set (£220), which works out cheaper than a single 16 Channel Pro (£936) Saleae USB analyser!

[@LuLeBe]

There are 20€ analyzers compatible with saleae software which are at least plenty good for standard i2c and spi communication as well as rs232. It works well with most signals, tested it so far up to a baudrate of 1.5m without any issues.

[@ChipGuy]

I got the top of the line MSO1104Z-S. The logic analyzer was 180 EUR more than the DSO1104-Z-S. It works fine, the correlation to the scope signal is really helpful and easy to use. Only thing to get used to is that the decoding functions for the LA are in the MATH menu. For me it was the decision wether to get the DSO and an INTRONIX logic analyzer for 300-400 EUR or to pay the 180 EUR extra on the MSO scope. And if I am not happy with the LA of the MSO I still can get myself the INTRONIX 34 channel 500MSa/s USB logig analyzer. Or maybe another model from another manufacturer.

[@EEVblog]

Chip Guy Vids If you were looking at the wavegen unit, then the EUR$180 for the logic analyser indeed makes it a lot more compelling.

[@tedvanmatje]

hi Dave.....I'm sat in that "which one should I get" situation right now. I've been watching you vids 'religiously' for a while now, and the 4 channel DS1054z has quite taken my fancy. the MSO1074z, on the other hand, has upset the applecart a bit with it's larger screen and digital functionality. just to make it more complicated, there is also the "S" version with an additional signal generator function. the problem is when you're 'up to your nuts in guts' delving through specs, etc, you forget to see how the price goes up. then, when the 'eureka' moment happens, you see that the bloody asking price is double that of the DS1054Z.... ...just to add more to the decision quagmire, there are 50, 70 and 100mhz bandwidths too. your posting helped, although the voices in my head are whispering "buy the gucci one". nothing will ever get built at this rate ;)

[@guillaume8437]

Ahah! "Buy the gucci one". Good one! The gucci one would be the DS1074Z + the logic probe set or a very very gucci one with like ultra high performances?

[@TheVlad33]

New Saleae models have analog input too. The sample rate is quite low though.

[@yago1467]

Cheers Dave. Not something I need right now, but if/when the time comes, it's not a shocker to complement a 1054z with a USB then. Comforting to know, EEVBlog has spent a lot of my money already (happily):P

[@robertcalkjr.8325]

Thanks Dave.

[@IsaacC20]

Is there a tutorial on the EEVblog that demonstrates why the "sample memory" (and other various specs of a DSO) is important (or how it affects your measurement)?

[@jyliang1917]

definitely helps me to make my decision!

[@geniusi810]

Chasing red herrings 'till the cows come home really isn't the duck's guts! It's almost as bad as pushing brown stuff up a hill with a pointy stick! On ya, Dave!

[@superdau]

Please do the same thing for the integrated Signal generator in the DS1074Z-S and share your thoughts! I'm very close to buying a DS1054Z, but the signal generator of the "74Z-S" version is tempting. But is it worth paying more than twice the money? I guess the signal generator in the scope is NOT floating, which would be quite a restriction compared to my Hameg-Fgen. That one can't do else than sine, triangle and square (not even adjustable in duty-cycle) though. So everything else would be a big step up.

[@sdgelectronics]

I have a colleague with an Rigol DS2202A-S. I believe his complaint is that the signal generator cannot output a 0-3.3V waveform, so is useless for some of the applications he was thinking of using it for. Admittedly he can build something to shift the output.

[@superdau]

sdgelectronics If that's the case, that's really bad. Because one of my applications would definitely be to drive digital circuits in the 0-3.3/5V range (to apply a varable clock or inject "invalid" signals for example).

[@JohnUsp]

The manual says: Output Range 20 mVpp to 5 Vpp, High-resistance 10 mVpp to 2.5 Vpp, 50 Ω Resolution100 μV or 3 bit, select the greater one

[@guillaume8437]

Can you do Bode plotting with this signal generator? It is sometimes cool to have a gain margin/phase margin analysis, especially on DC/DC converters...

[@DawidKellerman]

Not a waffle you help me made a better decision! Thank YOU !

[@OlympusHeavyCavalry]

Thanks for this Dave, Cheers :-)

[@DigitalYojimbo]

I find that PC based logic analyzers are just easier to use, I know it might not be as fast or accurate but sub 200msps buffered LA works fine.

[@dwDragon88]

One more thing I'd mention is that the DS1000Z series doesn't have that nice navigation knob like the DS2000 scopes. Trying to look at long captures without it is painfully slow. And besides, like you said, a mouse is a far better interface for a logic analyzer than ANY knob.

[@EEVblog]

dwDragon88 Yep, agreed.

[@sbreheny]

Dave, some MSOs do allow state analysis.I believe that the Tek ones do.

[@TinnTinn72]

Hi! What about Rigol DS1074Z-S? Should I buy this or a separate generator? Thanks for a nice channel! :) Johan.

[@JohnUsp]

That integrated generator has some amplitude limitations (maybe more limitations). Maybe the UNI-T UTG932 or FY6900-60M will be a better idea. The manual says: Output Range 20 mVpp to 5 Vpp, High-resistance 10 mVpp to 2.5 Vpp, 50 Ω Resolution100 μV or 3 bit, select the greater one

[@patbaptiste9510]

Hi Dave, I'm an ex nuclear electronics technician who transferred over to marine electrical installation, troubleshooting and repair. Now that I am at retirement age but don't want to just sit at home doing nothing, I was thinking about branching over to a home based auto ECU repair. My question is what quality scope do I need? I haven't used a scope in 15 years and these new digital scopes seem to pack a lot of features at relatively low prices. I guess a more direct question would be, how much do I need to spend on acquiring a new scope for the specific task mentioned above. also can the same scope be used for auto electrical diagnostic work. I think it is but what are your thoughts?

[@Home_Runner_Aliens]

Hi, I find there is a kind of scope for car repairing. Micsig. kzbin.info. You can also buy their scope from amazon. One of their product is good for car repairing "Micsig Digital Automotive Tablet Oscilloscope 100MHz 4 Channels ATO1104". If you need read all digital data out of ECU, you should buy a cheap Logic Analyzer.

[@junkerzn7312]

I've always avoided these mixed-signal deals, for a lot of reasons not the least of which being the lack of screen real-estate. But also, I have never actually encountered a situation where I would want to display digital data based on an analog trigger. It has always been the other way around... I always bring out a few spare I/O pins for debugging so I can adjust the firmware under test to poke a digital bit which then triggers the scope and/or (separate) logic analyzer. Plus, analyzing SPI/I2C/Serial bus traffic on a scope is not fun. Its good enough to run through a few basic communication tests and check the formatting of a packet or two, but that's it. Did I program the right number of stop bits? Is the bandwidth decent on the drop-line? Is the bus turn-around stomping over itself? Am I using the correct address width and R/W bit formatting? One-time checks like that... and they generally can be done on the normal scope just fine without a logic analyzer. Anything more complex than that and I run the digital data streams through an actual computer and write a program to decode the content into something human readable, or use an extra comm port to dump human-readable debugging data directly from the firmware. -Matt

[@guillaume8437]

Well! If you work with Intel FPGAs, you will have SignalTap that will allow you to display many many signals, even the internal ones, the limitations being the memory space on your computer, the resources of the FPGA/SoC and its max speed... for Arduinos/Raspberry Pis, etc..., on the other hand, most of all if you work with an analogue system, it is great for you to have a few digital channels available.

[@dizzolve]

Do any oscilloscopes have a display output so you can hook it up to your big flat screen monitor?

[@0xbenedikt]

Some do. Others have USB and allow streaming the scope's screen to a window on your computer and allow remote control of the scope and saving of the waveform data.

[@CortMarshal]

It makes more sense to have USB/serial or network data logging and PC communication, rather than having a separate video driver with no way of using the touch screen

[@svampebob007]

I got distracted by your watch messing with the signal. And on the dumster dive storry, Scored a Rat9, MS RT tablet and an old ass laptop, but that's the fourth laptop and second mobile device that I've scored this year :)

[@stevenbliss989]

TOTALLY AGREE! :)

[@TheExileFox]

Regarding the screen size; The digital scopes are quite powerful. It would be interesting if there was a scope which could hook up to lets say your 22 or 40 inch 1024x768 or 1440x900 or 1920x1080 tv/monitor or whatever by VGA/HDMI (DVI won't happen)

[@dm4728]

Nice explanation, ive seen the MSO version of this scope for an extra 70 EUR compared to non MSO option... is it worth the extra in this instance?

[@marshad82]

It would be, if not for the fact that it's only "MSO-Ready" and you need to buy a logic probe for a price of USB logic analyzer (well over 200 EUR).

[@guillaume8437]

Depends on the difference of price. I mean, it is true that not having a video output (VGA, HDMI or whatever you want), makes the reading on the small screen of the equipment a tad complicated. In any case Picoscopes are very expensive for the same functionalities and performance. Having the possibility to save not only screenshots but actually waveforms is massive because you can stop making measurements and go back to previous waveforms and change the zoom, add or move cursors, add or change measures/statistics...

[@MrZetor]

Did you do the voice acting for the character of Max Graham (the leader of the Positive Acting Teens group) in Beavis & Butt-head?

[@boranbasar]

Can you have a topic that I need to ask and you haven't answered already ? :) Great stuff mate, I'm planning to buy an osc, and I was following your advice on DS1054Z, on the other hand I was also considering MSO ones too.

[@andljoy]

Am i being stupid wondering why scopes have so little memory. Do they use special memory? As standard memory nowadays is very cheap so why not put 16 gig in it not 24meg.

[@robertcalkjr.8325]

No, I think they are stupid. I won't spend my money on a scope that is so limited on memory when I can get a PC based unit to pair with a cheaper scope. The scope manufacturers are shooting themselves in the foot...

[@andljoy]

But what i am wondering is is there a reason for it ? i mean 20 or so MB of memory was fuck all 15 years ago, why do they do it ?

[@ABaumstumpf]

Andrew Joy For many things on a scope those 20 MB are enough - look at it the other way around: You have 4 channels at a screen that is far form 1080p - in the range of 800x480 for the Rigol. That means with 1920 samples you can fill in a screen. The Rigol mentioned can do 12bit with slow signals, as 8 bit for shorter signals. Let us assume the 12 bit and that it uses 2 bytes (And wastes huge amounts of memory doing so): 12MB/(1920 Samples/screen*2Byte/Sample) = over 3000 screens. So even if you zoom out by a factor of 100 (Or increase the memory usage otherwise) it is still plenty enough for most people. While memory is cheap, they too try to save the last 20cents to make more profit. And yeah - imo adding 1GB of RAM for 10$ would not hurt :P

[@sbreheny]

Traditionally, scopes had to use special memory and special techniques (like multiple banks of memory with staggered clocks) to achieve the high sample rate. There have been commonly available 1 Gigasample per second scopes for more than 25 years, and many nowadays are in the 5 to 10 GS/s range. It's only in the last 10 years that PCs have had DRAM capable of >1GHz writes. I think that the advances in PC memory are part of the reason why the price of scopes has come down so much and also why so many low-ish end scopes now have much deeper memory.

[@andljoy]

Ahh ok so its a recently surpassed technical limitation thats only just now changing. I get it thanks for the explanation very interesting

[@arjanwilbie2511]

How many channels you need for valve technology? Radio and tv tubes can be tested through a tube tester, the rest might be single probe i guess :)

[@Russell218]

If you hover your mouse over the time bar and move it back and forth it looks like Dave is playing the oscilloscopes like bongos.

[@obiwanjacobi]

"Pushing brown stuff up a hill with a pointy stick" didn't know that was a the scope jargon... :-P

[@AntonMadness]

Nice thanks mate. Really gives me some food for thought on buying a scope/DSA for my company. Mind giving a rant/some advice about buying Signal generators for dummies as well? :-)

[@stryder751]

EEVblog is it better to get a Siglent Technologies SDS1202X-E 200 mhz which is 2 channel and $20 more or the 4 channel 50 MHZ Rigol.

[@abcvideoyoutuization]

Your KZbin channel is getting a lot of MSO advertisements. They must be following your channel.

[@EEVblog]

abcvideoyoutuization It's possible for manufacturers to target my channel directly with ads. I have no control over this or visibility of it, it's part of the Google AdWords system.

[@Sevalecan]

Where the heck are the power cords? Do you run scopes off battery when on camera? Does the DS1054Z even support that?!

[@Sevalecan]

Finally found it!

[@slap_my_hand]

IT'S OVER 800!!!

[@Meneltour27]

doesn't it heart a little bit, whenever you say "infinite" amount of memory ?

[@thenaimis]

You might be able to utilize LabView with your scope in conjunction with DLA software so that you don't have to go back and forth between the scope and PC. If only LabView supported DLA....

[@mrx.2233]

Could I have your keysight scope then? ;)

[@leisergeist]

Has your stance on this changed now that you can get the MSO model for like ~600?

[@David_94]

but the saleae "Logic Pro 16" costs 1000 usd or 539 usd with student discount, almost the same as a Rigol MSO1104Z 100BW, 1 GSa/s, 24 Mpts memory depth, 16 digital channels

[@mrcpu9999]

What is the unit on the left?

[@ytbenutzer]

Dave, what happened to your Indiana Jones Train project?

[@EEVblog]

mogor123 Currently on the floor in the bunker. The ark of the covenant mountain broke off getting it sideways through the door!

[@UmbraAtrox_]

Where are you buying these scopes? the rigol one is about 900 eur over here thats over 1000 USD... you said 399 ... i rly need to replace my analog scope soon .. it starts to fail

[@EEVblog]

Micky S. Try: www.batronix.com/shop/oscilloscopes/Rigol-DS1054Z.html

[@UmbraAtrox_]

Thanks Dave

[@bavarianmonkey8326]

why don't you repair your analog one?

[@UmbraAtrox_]

BavarianMonkey i dont really want to spend money on that old heavy thing ...

[@cthree87]

You need to move to the US so you can buy one for $399

[@antonrockoboac8711]

is there like a hard ware issue of hooking up a external monitor would be too slow and lagy and thats why there is no port for it?

[@EEVblog]

anton rockoboac External monitors on scopes are usually limited to the scope screen. i..e it just mimmicks the display.

[@RemcoStoutjesdijk]

EEVblog But that would help with the small font issue you mentioned. And you could use a videograbber to stream or record the output. I haven't seen one on the Rigol in your videos, but in a few days I'll be able to check for myself.

[@flyguille]

nice floppy at up/left corner!

[@Mickice]

Facebook is 50% ads with the other 50% being ads reposted from friends. Vomit worthy.

[@666Tomato666]

not true! there are also babies pictures and weddings! still vomit worthy

[@SONOFAZOMBIE2025]

666Tomato666 + coffee, food and pets even more vomit worthy

[@Mickice]

Lassi Kinnunen Every Facebook wall is filled with meaningless junk, I do not need that **** in life and only use Facebook to log into other sites.

[@Calliboss]

Don't forget about the idealized profile photos of peoples glamorized self image... Vomit. Eat the vomit. Re-vomit.

[@666Tomato666]

Calliboss "Vomit. Eat the vomit. Re-vomit." sounds like something my dog would be interested in note to self: don't make a dog facebook profile

[@SeAfasia]

It is worth to have an mixed oscilloscope but independent what kind of firm that we are going to choose. A Chinese model like rigol for example or a tektronix or Germany brand R&S. For me as a hobbyist-my personal opinion is buy a mixed one with good futures between rigol or hantek etc....

[@vandalest]

Too bad that today the Saleae Logic Analyser cost's the same (or more) as the Rigol scope itself ...

[@kd1s]

I wonder why the scope manufacturers haven't just chucked and HDMI port on the scopes. That would be cool.

[@winsock]

Adding HDMI would require paying a royalty to HDMI Licensing, LLC. However I still would like it or possibly instead of HDMI a (Mini)Displayport connector because of it being royalty free.

[@kd1s]

Or even a VGA port would work.

[@magnus2230]

I have two LeCroy scopes, late nineties vintage, with VGA ports. Only 640x480 but still nice to put up on a big screen or into a capture card.

[@jasonhall947]

Which scope is this guy actually recommending? The DS1054Z or the DS1074Z?

[@JohnUsp]

DS1054Z + a separated Logic Analyzer

[@jasonhall947]

John Robson Thank you!

[@JohnUsp]

Check this: www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/low-priced-rigol-mso1074z-s-at-arrow/

[@billings11]

The rigol on is on Amazon through tequipment.net.

[@eddiefoy3701]

I've had nothing but trouble with the USB ones. It can basically be the *only* device on the bus.

[@bigalejoshileno]

The problem is that manufacturers like Tektronix are putting dedicated analyzer mainframes to EOL. The public that buys this stuff would not like this probably.

[@robinheijblom2929]

Pushing brown stuff up hill with a pointy stick? That's really making me rolling on the floor laughing my @$$ off. Where do you get these sayings? Are these really English or Australian? Because I never heard of them but they're priceless. I subscribed because I'm interested in electronics but otherwise I would just watch your channel for the sayings. And I just see downcomment (

[@ChipGuy]

The price difference between the entry model MSO1074Z and the DS1074Z is 184 EUR. However, if you only need the 50 MHz bandwidth the price difference between the MSO1074Z and the DS1054Z is 251 EUR. That's still not that much and won't buy an Intronix logic analyzer for instance, but it's already a step closer to "rather get a seperate logic analyzer of some sort". More important is that a seperate LA will give you full HD resolution, or even 4K if you got the right display. The MSO can't nearly beat that.

[@robertcalkjr.8325]

The pathetic memory in the scope is their Achilles heel and is inexcusable IMHO.

[@Landrew0]

24MB is a lot of memory? I bought a 128GB USB stick for $45 yesterday.

[@henningschaferhoff1533]

the speed is important you cant compare HDDs with CPU cache without including the write and read speed

[@robertcalkjr.8325]

I think $20 Chinese toys at Wal-Mart have more memory...lol

[@PeregrineBF]

Yeah, SDRAM is SLOW. SRAM is much, MUCH faster, which is what matters. No $20 toy is going to have any SRAM, it's too expensive. It's effectively the same stuff that gets used for CPU caches, They're probably using something like this: www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/R1WV3216RBG-7SI%23S0/R1WV3216RBG-7SI%23S0-ND/4091478 $22.10 for 32MB of SRAM. MUCH more expensive than SDRAM!

[@TheSentientCloud]

It's a lot of memory for what it is. Kinda like how my TI-Nspire CX doesn't need 16GB of RAM and a terabyte of HDD. XD

[@absurdengineering]

Henning Schäferhoff Have you actually looked at the numbers? A single DDR1 stick almost 2 decades ago could acquire two channels at 1Gs/s, 8 bits. Even SDRAM sticks were fast enough, lol. I have a 20 year old LeCroy scope that uses two 32MB SDRAM sticks and can fill each one of them at a 1Gs/s rate. Those were standard consumer sticks from the period. Not even DDR1. I think everyone here is thoroughly confused between what the various rates mean. A lowly 1Gs/s 2ch 8-bit scope generates 1GByte/s of data. That’s 256MWords/s on a 32-bit memory bus. Even decent SDRAM did cope with such sustained write rate - remember that this is the best write pattern possible: contiguous increasing addresses, no random access at all. Modern DDR3/4 copes so well with this access pattern that the memory in a typical gamer PC could collect data from say 128 channels in parallel. Or from one channel at 7-bit full-width digital phosphor accompanied with full width frame buffer update (you see 1s of data on screen with every 1ns sample intact, no interpolation). You’d get a rolling 1FPS update rate on that. You could freeze the screen and pan and zoom to see, say, an entire second worth of USB2 FS bus traffic, and you could keep the persistence infinite to record any “runt” packets and such. Modern memory, man. It’s marvelous.

[@ZAKKORD]

Why aren't they puttin like 1gig or 4 gigs of memory in there ? memory is dirt cheap nowadays.

[@4hodmt]

They usually use SRAM for speed, which is much more expensive.

[@ZAKKORD]

4hodmt SRAM is only 5 times slower than DDR4, SRAM could be used as a buffer and just write to DDR in chunks. I think it's just a way for companies to get more money out of you.

[@dan_loup]

ZAKKORD I think you mean the opposite on SRAM-DDR4, right? And caching would not help in this case because its just one huge write to the whole memory size instead of reusing the same memory area several times, as happens on systems where caches are an advantage like computing. But they probably can pull that off by using a very wide memory bus with several small memory chips, but that would take quite a lot of PCB space.

[@absurdengineering]

4hodmt Nonsense. Consumer grade DRAM absolutely leaves SRAM in the dust. There’s like zero reason to use SRAM in a 1Gs/s or even 10Gs/a scope nowadays. A single stick of CONSUMER GRADE DRAM IS MANY TIMES FASTER THAN EVEN THE FASTEST SCOPES NEED. There. Said it. And it was fast enough 20 YEARS AGO too. A single stick of DDR3 will take 8ch at 1Gs/s. And it will have bandwidth enough to let the display system read it out in interleaved fashion at 60 FPS to update the digital phosphor screen (never mind a monochrome bitplane one). And you could be driving that phosphor to a 4000x1000 monitor no problem. This takes just one extra stick for the digital phosphor implementation, or two of you want to go fancy. A 2ch scope with 4 sticks of DDR2 could do full resolution 8-bit digital phosphor that spans on the order of 100ms (at 1ns time resolution!!), and you could drive this onto the fanciest of modern gaming monitors with 1 horizontal pixel = 1ns, at full frame rate. We’ve been fooled long enough. Let the myths die. It’s not 1995 anymore, when DRAM was on the slow side for a 1Gs/s scope. In 2002 you could do 100Msample storage from a channel on a single stick of DDR1, lol. I don’t know why the scope people haven’t done that, but sure as heck it’s not because of technology. These days a modest FPGA board with a single DDR3 stick and an HDMI output (

[@martinsalko1]

Or you can go the dirty way and measure each bus line one by one while using one of them as trigger. (Takes a huge amount of time, but it casts less) :D

[@GenieInAFantaBottle]

i came across the amp-hour from science360 radio

[@998SBayliss]

Buy a used HP 54645D MSO for about 150.00US$ for the digital part.

[@leisergeist]

It probably has less memory than a digital clock though I have a giant 48 channel HP analyzer from the early 80s, and that's the flaw

[@supercybercow5388]

Well i considered myself this as an option, even to go "bigger" with real "artillery" class desk monsters like Agilent 1652 or 167x series or so ... but then i realized that - is - like buying an 20 years old car that was a prime star in its glory days, it's reliable yes, because it wouldn't be still running if it was not, but like in an old car it will need more attention and care from the owner, it will not have the latest features, and when it goes broken only few people out there can actually fix it, furthermore the parts supply will be limited not to say expensive, or unavail. Then eventually i given up on that actually crazy idea and followed the Dave's reco to get an USB LA that fits in a pocket.

[@NeverTalkToCops1]

Probe cost of $300 and some scopes you have to add in another $100 for software, will grind heavily on people shopping for a $1000 scope. Check out Dream Source labs for a USB logic analyzer, quite good! Their pro 32 channel model costs the same as just the logic probe alone for Siglent or Rigol rigs. Hint, don't go cheap by building your own logic probes, you won't get it right, miniature coax cables are not easy buggers, then there's proper resistive termination and logic level family detection/selection. Don't do it! Also dedicated USB analyzers will have sophisticated triggering/sequencing controls, scopes won't.

[@TheSentientCloud]

Eventually I should invest in a proper scope. This (LBO-520A 35Mhz) one I've had since I was nine and it doesn't like to behave. More of a bedside showpiece than anything now. *sigh* once I go to college, I can HV again. And do EE stuff. I'm a maker and I can't make at home... not really...

[@pratwurschtgulasch6662]

you realize you can share a trigger between a regular scope and logic analyzer to line signals up, so your point is not really valid. also logic analyzers cost like $20 and up, not $400.

[@gamccoy]

I have no interest in a Facebook account in this lifetime. Unfortunately, some employers and HR depts look at you with deep suspicion if you don't do FB. Then you have to go out of your way to explain you're not anti-social.

[@ronniezzzz]

the ducks guts dave

[@-viralia]

we want indiana jones video! :)

[@fieldsofomagh]

Dave, you're the "duck's guts" when it comes to oscilloscopes but a few practical examples would have been helpful.Perhaps you might do a seperate video to illustrate what you have been talking about,or will we have to wait 'till the cows come home ?lol

[@EEVblog]

Tom OConnor Practical examples are not the domain of BLAB videos. They are just as advertised, me blabbing.

[@hammershigh]

Cut the BLAB: Does it meet your daily requirements...?

[@basspig]

These scopes cost more than my house did.

[@Krmpfpks]

Seriously, pushing brown stuff up a hill with a stick? I know you Aussis are down to earth and I‘m no saint either, but I will hear you say that from now on whenever I see a crapped err cramped UI

[@revealingfacts4all]

Fact check. 1. The new salleae logic analyzers have analog and can show digital waveform on top of the analog. We just purchased a bunch of them in my office. The one in the video is the older model.

[@EEVblog]

Eric Mayo Yes, but we are not talking about PC based DSO functionality.

[@aodkubaodkub8734]

Truth! ????

[@FooBar89]

hey Dave, which Tek scope is that?