EEVblog

Dave and David2 battle to get an old Microchip PICkit 3 working with MPLAB X talking to Dave's new product.
A tale of misery, rabbit holes, Murphy, facepalms, and ultimately success. You get a warts and all journey.
A good example of how a tool that should have just worked, turned into a nightmare due to some bad luck and poor tool protocol and mode compatibility.
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[@ChrisHolden]

I love the PIC microcontrollers - they're super-robust, have loads of peripherals, clamp diodes on i/o pins and so on make them really reliable. But Microchip's development toolchain is terrible.

[@robertturner4913]

Didn't the PIC chips evolve from the CPU that powered the Intellivision? I seem to recall reading that somewhere.

[@TheChrisey]

They are severely inferior to the various ARM implementations that exist today.

[@ChrisHolden]

@@TheChrisey except where AVR chips don't have clamp diodes on the io pins and you can damage them permanently really easily, or reverse voltage fries them - things that are almost impossible to do with a PIC; you can even put 240v mains onto a PIC io pin and it'll survive - overvoltage an AVR by even a few volts and it smokes and blows up.

[@TheChrisey]

@@ChrisHolden I said ARM, not AVR. AVR is pretty much equally inferior. Also, no sane person would apply such ridiculous voltages to an MCU

[@ChrisHolden]

@@TheChrisey ARM chips are also pretty fragile, and relatively power hungry too. You've not really described "best" very well in your response to a five year old post. You may not intend to apply high voltages bit sometimes, in production, they can be generated by all kinds of external influences. For robust, low power, simple task jobs, PIC microcontrollers are pretty awesome. Not everything needs hundreds of MHz or the ability to run a full Linux stack. "Severely inferior" is meaningless without explaining the criteria. I'd put more faith in a PIC based automotive sensor, for example, than an ARM based one (for reasons of robustness, ability to survive shock, potential high voltages etc).

[@armstrongsubero98]

Things have changed now. The PICKIT 3 and ICD 3 works flawlessly with MPLAB X. No problem at all, no need for external GUI.

[@DaveCurran]

This takes me back, the original PICkit 3 rant was the first EEVBlog video I saw, as I was having problems with mine at the time. I've been using Atmel since then....

[@NickStallman]

+Dave Curran Yep I've only used AVR but my AVR ISP mkII 'just works' with avrdude. A single simple command to program a hex file, no fuss and when there is an error it's clear enough.

[@skynetcybernetics9058]

+Dave Curran Good good, let the hate flow through you. Welcome to the AVR darkside.

[@rownadoherty]

+Dave Curran I've been using for the last ~7 years. Good riddance to their chips/programmers/designs!

[@kal9001]

that was also pretty much my first ever video of Dave's I watched lol. Also an AVR guy after moving up from arduino, currently looking to move up from the 8 bit devices up to the 32bit arm MCUs. never been bothered about pics, they always seem second rate to me, I know that sounds like I'm trying to be superiour but it's mainly just my early naivety when Atmel AVR was the first chip I used and it's now what I'm used to. I've tried getting a cheap tool and a super cheap part just to play with but every time I look at the microchip datasheets they just bug me. guess I'm just an Atmel fanboi lol.

[@afroninjadeluxe]

+Dave Curran Atmel studio 7 rules (with dark theme)! their dragon programmer is also the best looking one.

[@jokernepalm]

23:37 Thank you for this! You just helped a computer science student with his final year project.

[@FrankSiler]

Lessons learned from Dave: don't use Microchip or FTDI products.

[@blmarinelli]

The holding the button while plugging in the PCkit3 was the gold nugget I needed.

[@GadgetUK164]

That permission error - do you need to run in administrator mode?

[@ivanv754]

This video is so nostalgic ;), the centered headshot, the lighting, the webcam quality and the most important: a good Microship rant :)

[@boostcr3p]

14:44 when David2 walks into the room mid rant.... and is like "Fuck it, I am out." lol

[@PyroShim]

Good to see that the problems I had with it can also happen to professionals.

[@prasannarn946]

I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO THANK YOU! I had given up all hope, and like you, I had been working on this for 5 hours trying to figure this shit out. I was so frustrated that I paused your video, made popcorn to eat while watching, ready to give up. Thanks a TON.

[@pikadroo]

Well, that was fun. =) Anyone would miss that, you are trying to do something, it isn't working and once you are frustrated it's hard to focus. You just want to get things done!

[@gadget7894]

love it that david at 4.50 walks in, notices dave on a rant, slowly backs away ! brilliant !

[@dantodd2205]

Dave, What you went through is normal Development engineering procedure. Thank goodness you had a helper and not like us that did it alone (sleepless nights and all). If you think about it, this is what makes fun and exciting. The best part is that you have a documented video forever. If you remember before 1980's you had to write all this down, file and save it in a library.

[@tomvleeuwen]

All Microchip had to do is replace the error message "Connection failed" with the message "Connection failed, hold down the button and re-connect USB". Off coarse, it would be better if it would detect the old firmware and put it in bootloader mode by itself, but the message would suffice.

[@DDMT_Development]

Thanks Dave for another good video. I had pickit3 woes myself over 24 hours. I have 2. at one point neither worked. then got one working. in trying to get the second working the first one stopped! !! Watched your video on using the pickit3.1 app and the mplabx ipe and got both working, first time. Relieved. Thank you!

[@Nichoalsziv]

after the massive headache i got trying to get mine to work it makes me at least a little happy that i am not alone

[@TarakuT]

Congrats! You have more patience than i did. I was going to toss it today then i saw this video. you are amazing Dave! Thank you!

[@EEVblog]

+Taraku T I almost gave up at several points!

[@MrOperettalover]

This is pretty much how much crap digital guys have to put up with, always. You have no idea how good life you rf guys got compared to us. Every single thing we need to do, include troubleshooting. Not even our basic tools are working reliably. Once with Motorola I had to reengineer the Intel protocol for burning flash to be able to transfer the program. The problems you experience is common regardless what brand. I call it products of the internet generation: The Ballpark People when it comes to industrial quality standard. The only good thing about going from rf to digital is progressiveness. If what I want doesn't exist today, it may tomorrow. Thus, Ballpark people may not suffer from sickness. Maybe it just have to be like this because the evolution go so fast. At least that's my thirty years of experience. If patience is not your thing, call in the IT guys and get ready to pay. That's the only way around it.

[@TarakuT]

I would not call it easier, its just another thing I have to use to get threw my job because they keep changing things. I would prefer programming Hex, flashing Roms on my old UNIPRO. but that will never happen, we have to keep upgrading old crap with new hardware. because the idiot things it a good idea to shut things down that work, and put something new in that makes no change to how the machines work. its just a waste of money. and besides that why repose to me to show off? who cares, do what you are good at. this is why i don't like to sign up for electronics forums. there is always someone that things they are better than someone else because of what they know. besides that, i give you credit for what you do. but not for your attitude on things.

[@CaptainDangeax]

Hi Dave. I met the same problem trying to program a dsPIC30F4013. I had a dry solder but even after fixing, I encounter random errors with the Pickit3. It works well with PIC16 or PIC18 though. I'm just being patient and hit the "retry" button until it works.

[@matthewrichardson828]

I use the ICD3 debugger. I've had a lot of issues associated with the RJ-11 connector, especially with the PIC32MZ devices. I might eventually solder hard-wires on there to get rid of it.

[@ntd252]

Your whole day of making this video saved me in no more than 40 minutes.

[@openSUSE5]

Microchip sure seems like they know what they're doing. . . R.I.P Atmel

[@raymondheath7668]

I gave up completely and blew off MPLABX and re-installed 8.70 and was able to use my PICKIT3 and 2 again. I haven't worked with PIC24 or higher yet

[@fdutrey]

You turned it on, that's why. Take it apart.

[@jackkatogh]

An issue I've found while using the IPE, is if the power section is set to provide 5V, it will only provide 4.65V from the pickit3 and this will cause it to throw an error. Dropping the voltage to 3.5 in the power settings seems to work ok though, at least on the 18F4620, and 18F4685.

[@GadgetUK164]

I had the same problem - was it the power settings - 'Power from Tool'. I also have another issue where it powers the PIC Kit 3 at .25v less than I set it. eg. Set to 5v, USB port is detected at 4.75v, at 5.5v USB is detected as 5.25v. Problem started at the last firmware update for me. I can get around the issue by powering it separately.

[@stevec5000]

In 2021 this is still a problem, their programming software is 1.2 Gb! I got a Pickit 3 on Ebay and installed MPLab. It makes the lights flash but the Pickit 3 doesn't put out any power to the programming socked so it can't read in or do anything. The whole thing is a fraud!

[@TheAmmoniacal]

I think starting these programs as administrator (on right click) would alleviate a lot of these problems. Many of the errors are access denied messages. I can also see from the icon on the desktop that it's not starting it elevated mode.

[@alexverias7104]

and to read or program in mplab you need to enable the 5v for the interface in settings wich needs to be done several times as it doesnt remember that setting

[@DoctorLokey]

Dave, Nice microphone! Sounds so much better then before.

[@Ccoolty]

+DoctorLokey but will it blend?

[@TheGreatMashayekh]

Hi dear Dave some sites have mechanism to prevent high speed download and because you have such great speed downloads are interrupted by server you can fix this problem by limiting the download speed

[@electricguy2442]

mplab x is probably made by the same person that made the esinomed tablet thingy

[@jacobdykstra8499]

This is why I have been using Atmel. I have a few pics still in the antistatic and really want to learn pics but their support and ease of use is just horrible. I have a pickit2 and there is no hope in gettting it to work with mplabx. All these problems just deter me from even wanting to learn pics. I suppose I can buy the pickit3 and give it a go but this video too proves that can be a challenge. This brings up past memories of the older EEVblog videos ranting about the pickit3 and how it sucks.

[@edwardmclean9051]

Haha! Just had a similar problem with ARVDude and the Olimex AVRMKii with Windows 10. After 4 or 5 hours of flashing firmware, switching drivers, etc... I partitioned my hd to duel boot Linux and got it running in 30 minutes. I did the same victory dance when I finally got it working. It worked with Atmel Studio, but the IDE is so cumbersome and slow to boot when all that's needed is an editor and a compiler. Congrats Dave^2!

[@harrypehkonen]

I had the same problem. Worked perfectly on one computer, but wouldn't connect on another. After connecting through a POWERED USB HUB, the problem went away.

[@rocketman221projects]

What a pain. Why bother with a PIC and all the closed source bs when ARM micros are so cheap?

[@colibrimecatronic9922]

+rocketman221projects battery consumption most likely.

[@38911bytefree]

+Colibri Then, MSP430 is for you.

[@colibrimecatronic9922]

38911bytefree Yes, but that doesn't use an ARM either. I was simply telling rocketman that ARM micros in some applications are a power hungry overkill.

[@38911bytefree]

Colibri Yes. Im telling that for batt power apps better go to MSP430. If not possible, look some low power cortex. There are some options. ARM is power hungry if your app is CPU hungry. PIC is excellent also, but since MPLABx sttoped using it.

[@rocketman221projects]

+Colibri Look at the EFM32 dev board in EEVblog #269. It has an ARM micro in it and runs on very little power.

[@GadgetAddict]

What cam did you use to shoot this? It has that blurry "auto focus" look of the Logitech C920.

[@VolthausLabElectronics]

+Gadget Addict Listen a little more closely next time my friend. He addressed the camera choice very near the beginning.

[@GadgetAddict]

Volthaus Lab All I heard was that he used a webcam. Did he mention specifically which camera it was?

[@VolthausLabElectronics]

+Gadget Addict You nailed it, he only said webcam. Or that is all I heard. In fact I should have known you did hear his comment by your mention of the Logitech. I apologize.

[@konsul2006]

I use FlashGet to download from sites with slow and interupted downloads. It really works well with problematic downloads...

[@jjoeygold]

The MPLAB X IPE calls MPLAB X IDE APIs , hence MPLAB X IDE is needed to run the IPE

[@AnujArya_Curious]

made a product based on their new avr Tiny0 series 8 bit mcu, and had this problem where the atmel studio 7(with pcikit4 or atmel ICE) would report the mcu signature would not match to the one connected. They have these problems till date. We had problems with this even in the production. really bad experience.

[@benbird3364]

I was updating the firmware on a box of pickit 3's the other day as it happens, about 50 of them. we just plugged them in, and went to program a pic. MPLABX automatically downloaded the up to date firmware and reflashed the pickit before flashing the pic. Easy.

[@jakobhovman]

Hello Dave...Small Tips on downloading(for what it is worth): I use Free Download Manager with great succes, when a connection is weird and wonky... it usually gets the job done... It is bulit to download in the background and is much more flexible and patient than Windows own solution.

[@milos_radovanovic]

Don't worry. It's even worse, when using MPLAB X for PICkit 2 either with IDE or IPE.

[@pakurwainternational9406]

i am facing the same problem even after reverting it to mplab mode it gives target 0x0 invalid device error how can i resolve it

[@mr_sheen_airsoft]

Hi Dave, I don'know if someone mentioned it, but I think you have to have it connected to your pic micro.

[@nigelwright7557]

The pickit3 is very odd. I had to go into MPLAB X to download latest firmware for a PIC18F2580. Once it downloaded firmware I could then go back to MPLAB 8.92 and use it there.

[@pedropenduko6449]

Bought a PICkit3, installed MPLABX V3.61 and XC8 V1.42 on Windows 10 64-bit, why PICkit3 always says "connection failed"? Help please.

[@pedropenduko6449]

After watching the video I just did what you have done. My problem is now solved, mega thanks sir!

[@monchiabbad]

Put is in a different windows usb-port windows (7) has a problem with resetting devices when you reinsert them into the same port.

[@NourMuhammad]

I am not sure but there is a delay between the sound and the video right, wrong ?

[@DemetryRomanowski]

Interesting... I have MPLab X installed on my MacBook Pro and it talks to the IPE no problems at all, I had similar issues on my WIN 10 machine but a couple of re connections of the PicKit and it worked... Mainly use my Mac for any development though.

[@angiedrawing3476]

I was just looking at videos of batteries inside batteries... And I just found your channel and when I heard your voice it just sounded perfect for voice acting! For game or some animated movie...!

[@erickxtrem7807]

Y: 2020 Thanks Dave&Dave following your kinda fix also fixed an old PICKit 3...

[@aksting]

I haven't had any such problems with my Atmel ICE and Atmel studio.

[@LGBKAI]

The "crash" at the end probably could've been circumvented by starting it as admin^^

[@Brina_stubbs]

you could try general troubleshooting like trying a different computer stuff like that

[@Mrcovert]

I got 3 Pickit 3 units to set up a gang programmer using the Program-to-go feature. It took a while to get it to work but after the third one I had nailed the process. 1. Use Pickit 3 v 3.01 Programmer software. Plug the unit in and out till the software reconizes it. Can take a few minutes, sometimes holding the button down while pluggin in. Use Tools->Check communication each plug in. Once it's connected to the software choose Tools->Download pickit operating system and select the hex file in it's installation folder. Let it run. Close the program, kill with task manager if needed. 2. Run MPLAP IDE v8.92, Select programmer, select device, let it do it's thing if it tries to download firmware. Rest should be easy to set it up as a programmer-to-go

[@davekreskowiak3258]

I had similar problems with my PicKit3. I was trying to program a 18F4550 and power it from the PicKit3. Tell it to use 5V's, ni problem. The PicKit wouldn't connect, repeatedly. 2 hours of screwing around with it and the problem turned out that my USB port was putting out 4.75V, not 5. The PicKit3 powers up the target device and then checks to see if the voltage that is specified is what is actually on the device. Since 4.75V != 5.00V the PicKit was reporting a failed connection! I specified the PicKit to supply 4.75V and it has worked every time since.

[@1337ASM]

I get this in the MPLAB X IDE. Remove the PICKit 3, try to reconnect, it should prompt you to select a device, and then re-connect the PICKIT3. It sometimes work. Otherwise, when selecting the device, select another device, hit apply, then reselect the PK3. Works all the time for me.

[@Kek5kopF]

Dave what are you doing. I have used the PicKit3 together with MPlabX with various chips and never had any problems. (also Win7). I always used the IDE and not the IPE to flash the chips, though.

[@romsthe]

Mine works perfectly fine ! ... As long as I use it within 5 seconds of unplugging and plugging it back to the USB. After which I have to try again. And it looks like most of the time it worked in the video, it had just been plugged it in or the USB connexion sounds just went off.

[@alextrofimov7947]

Yeah! I remember some hard times with PicKit3. I guess, it took a whole day or two to make the thing work. But then it didn't bother me. But I'm more an EE, so I don't use it extensively. I use MPLAB X on Windows 7.

[@therealjammit]

About your download issues. I use Firefox with Downthemall plugin. If it fails the download, you can restart (hopefully) from where you left off.

[@Wassinko]

hello, i have a question i have a mircochip pic18f458-i/pt and i want a simple tool for programm it. know you a good tool?

[@fabianbarraez5111]

This is what I was looking for! Thank you!! I had the same issue!

[@DanielPinel]

David2's Surface on Windows 10 saved the day! That tablet deserves a medal.

[@McBochi]

Never had any problems with the PICkit3 and its clones in combination with MPLAB X / IDE itself, in most cases it were just the PICs that were a bit "picky". :P

[@Rezendes]

Thank you so much! I was having the exact same problems.

[@SpinStar1956]

DAVE PLEASE READ THIS: I completely agree but want to tell you of another TRAP. I was developing some stuff for the MX695 (also MX150) and needed to use my old (but known reliable) header extender ribbon cable connector that I've used for my PICkit-2. To make a long story short this 8" extender would not work with the PICkit-3, so I had to shorten it to 3" to make it work. This was the same on 5 other PICkit-3s; the others we have at the college where I teach. I have torn my hair out with this lead-length and all the other PICkit-3 shenanigans trying to use it on different devices (having to do multiple updates and crap). And, Microchip never responds or takes responsibility. PICkit3 = POS; PICkit-2 NEVER-EVER failed me. Thanks for the RANT-Vid and thanks for all other great educational ones too! Sorry to say Dave but I think Mr. Dick-Head has somehow 'blown' his way back up to the top!!! - Gary -

[@alexverias7104]

Hello Dave I faced same problem with ICD3 in mplab X it began enoying to do the install in device manager everytime it didnt connect. then moved to previous version and worked so basically to make it work in this version you need to unistall then install again in device manager at least this worked

[@zaferatakan270]

Dave says it's going to be "a little video". I'll put the kettle on. This is going to be a long one.

[@enigmacrk200]

did you try turning it off and on again?

[@Daniel-ib5bx]

Is the audio not synced up or am I high?

[@bharadwajtke]

Thank you very much ...U solved my 10long hours issue in 41Min....Thank u

[@gnuPirate]

Exactly what I thought about IDE X "500mb AND I have to find and DL all the other stuff? Why?" Would love a slimware version....

[@drstrangelove09]

now we need a flowchart that describes the steps!

[@nomadic_rider42]

Hi, Dave. I've had similar issue with my Avr Dragon tool, it got stuck at firmware update mode and I couldn't talk to it. Luckily I found a workaround using command line tool from Atmel Studio.

[@rafasilva8666]

15:50 to get to the project properties you could actually just right click the project name

[@thcoura]

have you tried to use the mplab the comes with pickit3? forget mplabx if you just want to program the pic

[@AngelGonzalez-vf2zp]

I think that the chip to be programmed has to be connected. Maybe the software communicate with the chip not with the pickit 3.

[@steve24822]

I can communicate with the Pickit3 without any chips connected.

[@DAVIDGREGORYKERR]

some programmes require a hard reboot to force the program5 to do what you what you want it to do.

[@IIGrayfoxII]

Dave have you tried a download manager? Try Free Download Manager. If it fails, just restart it and it will start from where you left off.

[@mekatronic4323]

hy can you tell me ,how to retrieving a program from a PIC chip (microchip)

[@marior.garcia]

Hi, I watched your video about AVR Dragon vs Pickit3, why don't you make a review about the Atmel ICE debugger??

[@alperenalperen2458]

I wonder how they are gonno responde this time

[@jimthompson4110]

The Pickit 3 and Pickit 4 will not program unless you turn on the power,

[@KennethScharf]

I have this Chinese clone PICkit 2. The only Microchip parts I've used are the old 16 and 18 series PICs so it is good enough. Not sure if the pickit 3 will work with Linux either.

[@AntonioYoutubeChannel]

@EEVblog thanks for making these really good product reviews! This one is a classic, I spent a couple of evenings just trying to connect PICKIT3. Just following your video, made it work on early steps carried out, just after downloading MPLAB IDE v8.92, then MPLAB X IDE v5.35, and then PICKit 3 v3.10... Using a AC164110 board to support PIC16F877A. Will try the solution of using dedicate MPLABXC16 compiler v1.25 on MPLAB X IDE as still following this video. Just taking a quick note here about my progress, just about after dealing with microchip website and technical support pages for a while now. Maybe they fixed this today? Not really, anyway, MPLAB IDE connects to the debugger, instead of connecting to the programmer, and even debug mode do not support the PICKIT3... It is ridiculous... #EEVblog #microchip

[@richardlincoln886]

Did serial comms need re-inventing?

[@getrolli469]

19:00 - You know you are lost when there is 40+ open tabs in Chrome.

[@muh1h1]

+Ge Trolli not a problem with 128Gigs of ram :D

[@gnuPirate]

+muh1h1 I don't think he is talking about computing power...

[@omfgbunder2008]

which program is that cpu monitor?

[@sunebrian1423]

Ha! AVR dragon seems don't have such firmware prb. between AVR studio 5 to 7

[@bwack]

Hi Dave. If you think MPLAB X is bloated, try Xilinx Vivado webpack. In the beginning it was 6GB, now it is 20GB ! I'm currently using it at the university and it works great there, but at home as a student my computer isn't sufficient. I had to download 50Mb web installer just to get a message minutes later saying it doesn't support 32 bit systems. I was about to test out the new remote lab (beta) that they have at the University of Oslo. You can tar.gz your vhd files and send them to the lab server via the web browser, and the server compiles and uploads a bitstream to the remote fpga board (I think, or you have to send the bitstream). A webcam shows you the board and you can push buttons and switches remotely :) It's a tool used together with the edX MOOC course they are now setting up in parallel with the university course.

[@KiR_3d]

Thanx for clarifying all this drums and whistles around Pickit 3! :) I don't feel you need to really apologize to Microchip because they've made things super-complicated! I don't need that IDC3 to just flash some PICs (not on my current level for sure). And it seems that it's no difference between clones and the original Pickit3 since it's very frustrating even if you've paid for the original one! I guess that Pickit 2 has no modern chips support, right? I've targeted to PIC16F1764 because of the internal clock. It needs much less external components to run it. PDM instead of PWM. It's a big deal as I've understood!

[@truufseir]

Now i will be using the avr dragon for a new product i am working on. How is the merger between atmel and microchip coming on... lol. Anyways does the avr dragon work with the atmel studio 7 i believe before i get started.

[@matucha123]

haven't watched full video yet, but if you haven't solved problem you should open old standalone pickit 3 software Tools>Revert to MPLAB mode

[@Spiro20004]

windows 7 user. well done that man!!! stick with what works!

[@hamsoftware]

I use Mikroe's stuff. No problems. I also have a PICkit3. But it collects dust.

[@darthvader8433]

Dave: if you have a Linux box, try wget -c The -c is continue.

[@ChipGuy]

I also didn't download the 3.10 Version Tool because it didn't say "Stand Alone" on it. You are not alone with being reluctant to click on that link...

[@jay_321]

I'm working on a PIC project after about 10 years since my last one. I find the development tools have all changed for the worse. Much worse. I have the code completed and debugged thanks to the old MPLAB IDE 8.92. No thanks to the newer MPLAB X or MPLAB Express. Hopefully my old PicKit 2 will program the chip. Microchip's management is stupid and that can't be fixed. They have a fairly long history of separating the wheat from the chaff and eating the chaff. I will move on to some other brand for my next uC project.