EFAP

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[@loopwatcher4087]

"The batman movie is a literal perfection" "It will be, when it fits a Batwoman"

[@grandarkfang_1482]

Holy sex joke, Batman!

[@PauloSilva-ep9ox]

That's a statement full of vengeance! rssr

[@ryuoh6928]

"I'm A wOomAaaan...!:

[@mrmxyzptlk8906]

Ew no

[@SpartyCubsFan]

Batwahman, you mean

[@codemanthe2nd343]

Alright, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Alfred translates "You are el rata alada" from a cypher, there is no error in his use of "el." In the movie, Alfred comments that the Riddler's Spanish isn't very good, attributing the error to him. Batman was aware of the broken Spanish, it wasn't news to him when the penguin told him, that just made it click in his mind. You are el = URL

[@juanchitaro5380]

I just got the whole URL thing from your comment, and now I'm not sure if I think it's clever or sooooooo silly. Seems more like a very dumb joke. I would have saved it for the Joker movie.

[@VladDascaliuc]

Watching this movie in spanish is honestly Spain without the S.

[@RazorTrap]

URL, and I'm Kira.

[@MAandS]

I THINK.... It's LA Ratta. Masculine feminine in Spanish. RattA is feminine so you'd used LA not EL. So by using the wrong one it highlights it and moves your attention. you are El rata... El is wrong.. he hasn't been wrong before... so why El? ... you are El? URL ..... see?

[@rileymoore2967]

Haven't seen it, and I'm a bit confused about this whole thing, but isn't it common practice to put ciphers through translators to look for hidden meanings? Seems like a weird thing to mess up

[@DrViperVideos]

If batman didn’t mistake penguin as the “rat with wings” then the TSA would’ve showed up and melted him

[@fuckoffgoogle1657]

If catwoman didn’t miss the shot, she would have been melted.

[@SpartyCubsFan]

I miss this!

[@justicefornoir850]

If Falcone didn’t strangle his daughter he would’ve been melted

[@soyuzdavillan721]

Parson my ignorance, but what's TSA?

[@parsa1372]

@@soyuzdavillan721 TVA post Kang11

[@emuman09]

The helping the girl in the stretcher almost got me as did when he lit the flare and reached out to help the people. I felt the heroic feelings there

[@unpopularopinions7407]

Yeah, the way he silently reassures her before she’s carried off made me smile. I always really like seeing Batman comfort people; it hits harder coming from him than a lot of other heroes precisely because he has such a reserved demeanor.

[@jcore0981]

Yeah but Batman's supposed to be koooool!!! He can't have depth. He has to blow people up and be badass!

[@petriew2018]

And every Snyderling immediately hated this movie from that point on because this batman is a pussy... but yeah, the point of Batman was always that he was trying to be better than the people he's fighting against

[@zerotohero1483]

@@unpopularopinions7407 this is honestly the first Live Action Batman/Bruce that I can see comforting a child who just lost his parents in the circus, or holding a little girl’s hand on a swing set as she dies.

[@mrakimov3458]

@@zerotohero1483 and that is what makes this version of Batman special for me.

[@vestaarcadia]

The one scene that stuck out to me was after Batman punched Gordon, the cops chased him for a bit but he wasn’t desperately wanted throughout the rest of the film.

[@C-Content]

I think its still possible that he was being hunted offscreen until he brought in Falcone. I dont think he has any run ins with the police after leaving the gcpd until he brings in Falcone.

[@TheFizio]

But man the cops all coming out at once was hilarious, reminded me of matrix 2's scene where an army of smiths suddenly break into the battleground

[@tannerchaffin9235]

Also where they just started shooting at a fleeing man while inside of a crowded police station lol

[@Djhiphop1000000000]

Because later in the film he had caught the biggest crime boss… think for once

[@Djhiphop1000000000]

@@tannerchaffin9235 yea they highly respect the police chief and from where they were shooting there was no one in the way. So what’s the issue?

[@elater272]

The only moment I found funny was when Riddler at the end pulls a full on Gabbie Hanna and says “ I am so proud of this community” to his followers. That was hilarious to me

[@ARCtrooperblueleader]

I feel you.

[@muhammedahmed3291]

THUMB drive

[@samwallaceart288]

I thought this movie had pretty good humor throughout that felt like natural responses to the situation.

[@diazinamon2431]

I also love when the Riddler says 'I ordered a Pumpkin Pie,' before his body is slammed onto the table by a cop. Something about that delivery really got me laughing.

[@justforlaughs6182]

Penguin line “what is this good cop and bat💩 cop” gave me a chuckle

[@YourPrivateNightmare]

My favourite part of the movie was when Batman told Falcone "Tell that to the random girl's strangled neck"

[@lordofthepizzapie9319]

Mine was when Alfred slammed his laptop and said "What'cha bring me?"

[@lowesmanager8193]

@@lordofthepizzapie9319 Was that guy supposed to be Alfred?

[@benl2140]

My favourite part was when Selina said her mother's name was Martha.

[@arthurgomes8214]

“I’ll spray paint your ass!”-Penguin

[@Dave_L913]

FYI, Riddler wasn't wailing in his jail cell. He was singing a really high and pitchy version of Ave Maria. You know, the song that permeated the entire movie to the point that if I never hear it again I can die happy.

[@25meip]

Well he did both. He cried/wailed in certain spots in frustration and grief, and then began in on the song

[@mk-tu3gv]

That ave maria thing they were going with put me off hard. Especially in the binoculars intro. It sent my brain straight into hitman Blood money.

[@BionicleFactory]

@@mk-tu3gv same, lol. My first thought was, "Okay, Riddler's clearly been playing some Hitman."

[@davidcatabui2018]

As a professional musician who has to play/sing this particular piece at nearly every wedding and funeral, I was already of the mindset that I would die happy if I never had to hear it again, even before hearing Riddler butcher it

[@darkknight57691]

4:42:15 I know Jay says a Bat signal would not work. But one month after this EFAP episode came out, the guys at Hacksmith Industries actually made a functioning Bat signal. just a fun fact

[@emuman09]

Did they only use it with clouds though?

[@archstanton9073]

Alfred couldn't have been in Batman's ear during the car chase since he was busy being blown up at the time.

[@thil2894]

If this is not a joke, the context of what Rags is saying is that what Batman is doing is insanely dangerous and at that moment, somebody should tell him to slack off, Alfred should say this to Bruce. I don't think he is making a statement about the film only that the crash caused by Peguin is itself caused by Batman chasing him. I think.

[@Djhiphop1000000000]

@@thil2894 it’s dangerous but not enough to warrant Alfred whatsoever. The guy just attempted to kill all 3 of them and you think letting him get away is the better alternative? Catching him and getting info to stop the larger enemy will prevent more deaths than whatever casualties are caused by the chase. Which Batman drived very carefully in mind you.

[@thil2894]

​@@Djhiphop1000000000 I was just resaying the point Rags brought. I don't really care.

[@EmberBright2077]

@@Djhiphop1000000000 Batman abandons Gordon to die to try and catch penguin, when he can catch him later. Penguin is also not an active danger to the general public at this time, save for what Batman causes with the car chase.

[@Djhiphop1000000000]

@@EmberBright2077 so many dumb points. Abandoned? Batman scared off Penguin and his goons. Whoever is left Gordon can take care of. He can handle himself. Catwoman was also there. Also such a stupid mindset. Batman has limited time, he can’t afford to let him get away, he NEEDS to get to Riddler quick. Because not catching him will lead to more casualties. So just because he’s not causing issues to the public at that time. Letting him get away will let Batman let many more innocents lives at fate than whatever’s are effected by the chase. So yea maybe watch the movie again before making such hilariously dumb points.

[@cameronroy2129]

I was originally thinking the riddler goons were parody-ishly extreme. But then I saw the live comments on this video and remembered people do act like that

[@yourarchnemesis8453]

Yep especially some comments talking about how this movie is covid fear mongering and pro tech censorship.

[@CaptainCastle]

I mean they do in chat rooms

[@spudg8558]

It is on the nose and it is obviously Hollywood depicting their political enemies as crazy killers, but it's not unbelievable to the point where the movie doesn't work. Yeah I'm pretty sure you can find 30 guys who hate the world enough to do something like that in Gotham City, which is rampant with crime and corruption.

[@CaptainCastle]

@@spudg8558 It felt like they were going for a joker thing where he was a symbol of the downtrodden. Instead of a straight up serial killer lol

[@spudg8558]

@@CaptainCastle I can see the angle, but like you see in politics, the movie's view of the 4chan types as "downtrodden" "forgotten" white men only goes so far as to patronize them rather than afford them any empathy or understanding. I don't think there's any point at which we're actually supposed to feel bad for the Riddler or his henchmen or sympathize with their motives. So imo the reference is still politically motivated and not an attempt to make the story morally complex. Because they are straight up serial killers lol.

[@archstanton9073]

Yeah, the "w. privilege" line Catwoman drops comes out of nowhere and lands like a wet fart. I know it "has" to be in there because Hollywood but I wish they didn't.

[@ratman202]

Yeah. When she said it I literally thought I had imagined it lmao

[@cameronroy2129]

I agree it felt out of place, its better to understand the character having that perspective rather than the movie saying its right. Because even the movie goes out of its way to justify Thomas Wayne. Felt like the kind of ignorance real people have or hatred someone whose friend had their passport stolen by a politician and steals from the rich would have. Personally don't have much of an issue with it it just feels weird I don't think its justifying Riddlers hatred for Bruce just for being a rich orphan since that character is insane. Again to me seems like situations you do get from class divides and living in a place like gotham

[@gingeranagram2467]

@@PauloSilva-ep9ox No, it doesn't- it has everything to do with the Waynes being unfathomably rich, not because they're white. It was pointlessly divisive identity politics

[@PauloSilva-ep9ox]

@@gingeranagram2467 I understand.... I don't disagree with this point, I still resist the identity subtext (lol), but more like an overanalysis on my part, I think... but the theme of the revolt against financial privilege I agree is the main theme of the antagonisms established in the film !! Despite not liking how stuck Batman is put to him... and the mediocre way Batman makes use of Bruce Wayne's money lol!!!

[@spudg8558]

@@cameronroy2129 It doesn't even make sense for Selina to say that, she's dating one of the most "privileged" straight white men in the city and we don't get any other indication she thinks that way besides that her dad is white and she hates him specifically.

[@Hassohappa]

When you mentioned it might be more grounded for the bat signal to shine on a building rather than the sky it occurred to me that the tallest building in Gotham is Wayne Tower. That might be too on the nose to have the bat signal shining on Wayne Tower lol.

[@tannerchaffin9235]

You'd also need 4 bat signals so that you can see it from all angles, meaning Gordon either has to conscript 3 other people to activate the signal, or he has to drive to each one lol. It also makes it harder to meet up by just waiting at the spotlight.

[@SK008]

In the The Dark Knight Returns, I think the tallest building is The Gotham Life Building on which the batsymbol shines.. so it's not a new concept..

[@vario6492]

It's a comic book thing, just have the bat signal be the way it always was and don't question it 🙄 May as well whine about how nobodys shooting Batman in the mouth

[@ARCtrooperblueleader]

I would argue the whole flooding plot could have been cut from the movie and just have the final act be Riddler’s Followers assassinating the Mayor.

[@rayvonvelez3129]

The whole big riddler flood plot at the end felt kinda forced imo. I thought he wanted to go after corrupt people, but in the end he just believes everyone is corrupt even innocent people..... That's what I got from it.

[@dennisblassnig9144]

@@rayvonvelez3129 i got from the end that they basically wanted to shot the new mayor and some police officers because riddler thought the election was a fraud and the flooding was there to keep them in that place, even if it felt like a bit too much cause of „splosions“ that part actually felt very comic batman to me and nolanesque as well The only issue i have, it makes the movie a tiny bit too long

[@jamesknapp64]

I'd rather they end the movie at the Joker killing Falcone and not have the final act.

[@valentinegonsalves7322]

Agreed. 100%. And IF they have wanted to have that flooding sequence, they should have set it up better. At least show vans being parked and abandoned by Paul Dano. That way the reveal that he is the Riddler when they unmask him would land better... Instead of just "Redditor Riddler learnt everything off the internet forums and got caught because some witness girl spotted him." It all happens off-screen and so fast. For a movie that took its time with the beginning and first half, I hate how rushed the last half is. It might as well just not be there. I wanted it to end with Batman and Gordon finding and apprehending the Riddler. That's the movie. The end credits is Riddler being in the cell adjacent to Joker. Who says he's impressed with his work. Riddler wants Batman's validation, gets Joker's instead. Good place to end.

[@thegrimknight3178]

What abt batmans arc? What abt the end situation which would affect the sequels and spin offs? Those are major positive points in the movie how can u remove them?

[@dandybus1582]

“It’s hard not to think about the screams in the background.” Has to be one of my favorite MauLer statements ever.

[@shadows-xn3ed]

This is a 6/10 movie released in a era of 3/10 movies

[@mrmxyzptlk8906]

Shit taste spottted

[@rSADGE]

@@mrmxyzptlk8906 he isn't wrong lmao

[@mrmxyzptlk8906]

@@rSADGE he is… he’s conflating an amazing film for an above average film amongst trash. Amazing films still exist. And this is one of them. It has the acclaim and success to back it up. It has way more acclaim than either of the Burton film. and 2 of the Nolan films. It’s an amazing movie. This guy and yourself are wrong. You have garbage taste.

[@emptyblank099a]

@@mrmxyzptlk8906 Go watch se7en this movie is capeshit se7en stealing every scene.

[@stijnvandenheuvel8117]

37:30 I laughed when Batman slowly walked towards Penguin and got on his knees to really look at him

[@25meip]

There seemed to be a lot of these sorta lingering shots. Maybe to highlight the humanness of this Batman, but yes we chuckled a lot at the awkwardness

[@stijnvandenheuvel8117]

@25meip I just thought that one was especially silly because of how dragged out it is and the only thing it adds is an awkward shot of Batman kneeling down to look Penguin in the eyes. I think the fact that you just see his head slowly coming into the frame just makes it really odd.

[@unpopularopinions7407]

I think that would be a lot more intimidating from the perspective of a thug who was seeing him for the first time. If that was Batman’s first appearance in the movie, it’d probably do better at pulling off its intended effect

[@TheShockVox]

Pretty sure it was suppose to be at least somewhat humorous at the end

[@kylefrank638]

I'm not sure why they left that in. Should've just been the wide shot of him walking, then Penguin freaking out. Then next scene. Watching him stoop down with his head all tilted like we're in a Purge movie was.. an experience.

[@Chrono337]

Instead of Batman saying "I am the shadows", he should have said: "I grew up surrounded by shadow"

[@davidmendez3899]

I have enough shadows. what I need is vengeance

[@vikfortune482]

Would you say he was, molded by it?

[@harrykatsaros]

What? That makes no sense. He is talking about how he is seen from the perspective of the criminals. I'm paraphrasing here but he says as far as the criminals are concerned I’m not a man who hides in the shadows, I am the shadows. He is living in their heads. The criminals have bought into the idea that he’s not just a guy who could be hiding in a shadow somewhere in the city... he’s in all the shadows all at once. That’s why they back away from the shadows.

[@davidmendez3899]

I have met shadows

[@MediumRareOpinions]

@@harrykatsaros I think you may have missed the context from EFAPs Boba Fett coverage. Tis a joke sire.

[@kieranholmes8086]

“I don’t get the impression that he had any minor injuries after that fight”, isn’t there a whole shot showing how bruised Bruce’s body is?

[@kylefrank638]

That shot was flashing in my head when they were saying that.

[@user-pm7pw1tl3t]

Could be just his overall damage and injuries from days earlier too. If not scars from the 2 years

[@alexhayden219]

I really didn't remember him having that much damage when he was shirtless and I've looked up photos online since to see it in static detail. From what I can see, I really don't see much, if any, bruising at all. He's just his pale self without much discoloration anywhere. He does have scars here and there that look pretty well-since healed over.

[@AXOLOTLKINQ]

I took that as them showing all the scars from his entire career as batman, not just that one fight

[@jamesknapp64]

there was

[@DarthRamzes]

Watched the movie yesterday. Came out of cinema thinking, that the movie would end within the first half an hour if police or batman decided to investigate where the leaked photos were taken from. Even the Falcone would send people to check the location overlooking his joint after press published those.

[@jonsimpson6240]

Yeah... there could only be a few places they could be taken from. It would be worth checking the apartments, famous for holding stakeouts from.

[@h4tch3tt74]

Its worse. if they just hadnt plugged int he "thumb" drive into a networked conputer the whole plot wouldnt occur

[@CuhShark]

I wish they would've just had those photos taken from literally anywhere else. Could've been from street level where there'd be nothing to go on to identify the photographer. Could've been from a different apartment to act as a red herring. Anything but the actual apartment of the dude who's trying to expose these people.

[@samwallaceart288]

I remember a story about Dick Cheney where he was at some meeting or photo op, and suddenly the secret service guys run up and _carry him_ down several flights of stairs into a safe room. When he finally catches up on what just happened they explain that the Pentagon and the WTC just got bombed and he's to stay in hiding until further notice. Yeah. The police would've stopped her.

[@mourad505]

I was baffled by how after, apparently, getting shot in the abdomen (where she was clutching at, while Gordon was pulling her to safety), she just casually wades through chest-high water with everyone else as they follow Batman to safety. I was like, "Wait wasn't she just shot?!"

[@samwallaceart288]

@@mourad505 she was shot in the shoulder and then someone tended to it before the flooding got too bad. Literally pulled a Leia and got enough to make us worry a sec but little enough that they can straightup forget she's still injured by next scene

[@NicTheGreek1979]

@@samwallaceart288 nah, she was holding the left side of her belly..... A gut shot is not something that can be brushed off lol. (that's not aimed at you, just saying, in general) ;)

[@snakeguy8646]

@@NicTheGreek1979 Also doesn’t help sea water going into a wound is very dangerous and since they lack a hospital area it’s possible she dies due to infection if not blood loss

[@NicTheGreek1979]

@@snakeguy8646 exactly, not to mention going into really bad shock from blood loss. But nah, "muh stronk woomoonz" lol 😆

[@ogcipher4967]

I love how everyone's meme-ing around while the Green Man's so invested in this movie.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

I think fundemtally the problem with the movie is that Riddler's actions for the first two thirds of the film have almost nothing thematically to do with the last third. It feels like the Riddler's plan and the film is just building and building to some huge revelation, only to lead to some non-sequitur plan to destroy Gotham and massacre civilians. Riddler's leading Batman by the nose only lead to the revelation that Gotham is corrupt, but we as the audience kind of already knew that.

[@arenkai]

Wasn't the whole point to destroy the city built on lies ? Pretty sure there's a lengtht explanation of That Basically : it's too rotten to even change at this point, the real change will come when it's razed and rebuilt The first part of the plan was to get to the core of the conspiracy that would destroy the city in spirit before destroying it physically to make sure the previous "regime" can't take over again.

[@funkydanieluk]

That's a good analysis of the problem. The pay off was not satisfying.

[@hatemongerofthetoxicbrood6561]

62 morons who the entire point of the story flew right over their heads. Riddler's action every single one of them mesh together with a coherent line of logic. He starts with killing the corrupt one by one, mimicing Batman putting the fear of god in them. Do you understand this part well??? If so I need you sit back and relax because I am about to show you something your sub human intelligence could not have understood on itself in a million years. REMEMBER WHAT THE MAIN MESSAGE OF THE STORY WAS???? REMEMBER WHAT WAS THE MAIN LESSON BATMAN LEARNED? Vengeance is ever consuming. Vengeance is a raging flame that burns the innocent and guilty alike. Vengeance starts as a a giant burst of rage, that after its first flash it starts to fester and grow into a cold irrational psychopathic hatred. Riddler was a look into the future that awaited Bruce, a warning for him, that if he continues on this path of vengeance it will not lead to a pretty place. Riddler started with a vengeance that was understandable, against the corrupt, same as Batman. But Riddler indulging himself in his vengeance caused him to be very quickly lead stray into the biggest depths of depravity and cruelty.

[@ETBrooD]

That's one of the issues. Another fundamental problem is that nobody has a clue what drives the Riddler. Ok, he doesn't like lies. But he doesn't mind murder. Interesting priorities, but why?

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@ETBrooD No that I got. He became disgruntled by being in an underfunded orphanage while corruption ate up all the dollars that should have benefited his orphanage. And the very people pocketing the money were also making a fortune selling drugs to the orphans they impoverished in the first place. That's an excellent motive to turn vigilante and fight corruption. But trying to flood Gotham isn't fighting corruption nor is it the actions of a vigilante, it's just plain terrorism. And as far as I can tell, it's terror without a tangible goal.

[@revolversnake126]

Great job leading the discussion, Fringy!

[@sparkypack]

Fringy taken over EFAP.

[@lordofthepizzapie9319]

@@sparkypack Next thing you know he's gonna rename it to Every Frame A Goo, EFA... Err, maybe not actually.

[@JUANMAS7ER]

In any case.

[@szeltovivarsydroxan9944]

Yeah, Uhm, Aahh, Erm, Ah

[@johncra8982]

🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢

[@superjlk_9538]

I can’t believe Batman didn’t think to check the angle where the photos were taken

[@luke8127]

Exactly, detective work 101

[@denistannenberg]

literaly one of the first things you do in one of batman games is to establish where did the bullet come from based on an angle between where it hit and where it came through the window

[@juanchitaro5380]

I'm sure it must be hard to write a mystery for the "world's greatest detective". But writing these stories is always hard, so it's not really an excuse. You are completely right about the angle thing. If they wanted to take the Batman detective route, they should have shown him taking precautions like this one, to ensure we can't acuse him of being bad at it. It should just be that the Riddler always goes a step beyond to cover up his tracks.

[@Djhiphop1000000000]

You can’t be this stupid…

[@Djhiphop1000000000]

@@denistannenberg you do realize when Batman checked the sniper in that building he got nothing but a message from the Joker. There was no further info he got from that. He just wanted to know WHO it was. Same with Deadshot bullet Here, he KNOWS it was Riddler, there’d be nothing else to gather from it.

[@kylefrank638]

In that first investigation scene, I thought the cop of the left was tipping his hat at *Batman* at first, and I thought that was going to be a neat detail of the GCPD not all being on the same page with a vigilante consultant. Definitely agree they could've used more apparent dissension amongst the cops in the movie, to make it more believable that Batman is even allowed into the crime scene, able to confront the D.A. and left to "control" that whole situation. Like even just cutting a shot or two into that scene, going back to the cops standing by, where they're asking themselves what Batman thinks he's doing. The chief wants to step in, but Gordon and a few others are sure that will only set off Riddler.

[@unpopularopinions7407]

I totally thought the cop was tipping his hat to Batman too but now I don’t know

[@kylefrank638]

@@unpopularopinions7407 Nah it was for Gordon, I was slightly disappointed.

[@rindoubaka1574]

@@kylefrank638 I mean, if the cop is tipping his hat to Gordon, isn't that essentially the same effect?

[@kylefrank638]

@@rindoubaka1574 I don't know about that. Even if Gordon is Batman's biggest proponent on the force, a cop might have respect for Gordon just because he earned his badge, even if they don't agree with him about Batman.

[@NickYoung22]

Here is a big issue I discovered. If anyone asked “where were these pictures taken from” when looking at the photos of the mayor or others. Riddler would have been found immediately. The photos were taken from his apartment, same place he shot from.

[@mrmxyzptlk8906]

That isn’t an issue? There was nothing there that would’ve lead them to him. That was where he resided but not where he was operating throughout the film. And besides he had it all planned out anyway. This was shown when they went to his apartment there was nothing there but information which couldn’t have possibly be understood until Batman found out more information.

[@immortallix]

@@mrmxyzptlk8906 the place would’ve been compromised and not useable later

[@NickYoung22]

@@mrmxyzptlk8906 except the videos, the diary, the murder weapon, the info under the rug. The photos were taken from his apartment, where he lives. If the second they saw the photos they said “this looks like it was taken from one of these apartments” and went to the apartment, he would have been captured and the rest of the murders would have been avoided and most likely the bombs stopped. Keep in mind the movie takes place over 6 days (if I’m not mistaken) first murder is day 1 they get the photos maybe day 2, that’s 4 days and 3 additional murders stopped, plus the bombs and mayoral shenanigans stopped.

[@mrmxyzptlk8906]

@@immortallix huh?

[@mrmxyzptlk8906]

@@NickYoung22 none of this indicates enough information to catch him…. Batman had already analyzed a crime scene of his and it was squeaky clean. He’s always a step ahead. Nothing in that apartment would’ve been enough to stop him. He had to follow the riddles in order to truly stop him.

[@EasyEighty-Eight]

Anyone else think that the Riddler was working for the upcoming mayor? Both their hatred for corruption, as well as her many appearances, either through billboards or her chat with Bruce at the funeral, had me thinking she had much more to do with the story than she actually did.

[@iamthewizardwhoknocks2845]

She was black... So no.

[@spudg8558]

I thought the same thing as soon as her opponent was conveniently killed. No way does a totally clean person make it that far in a race for mayor in a city where the entire system is controlled by the mob. Also why would Riddler try to kill her if she really isn't corrupt?

[@EasyEighty-Eight]

@@iamthewizardwhoknocks2845 that feels like a bit of a stretch. I bet it was more that she was initially gonna be the true villain, but the studio executives wanted Batman to have some cool fight at the end of it and it had to be worked around this desire. I can't prove this, but it would explain why the Riddler's motives seemed confusing.

[@EasyEighty-Eight]

@@spudg8558 If they were working together, I could see it as a sort of false flag operation, if that's the right term. Like, the Riddler attempts a fake assassination attempt in order to make her seem less suspicious and increase public sympathy for. All it would really need is a slight rewrite of the Riddler in the film, like he hates the corruption within Gothem, and sees her as the best option forward, and will do anything to insure that she wins. The more I think about it, I kinda hate it that they didn't go with this approach. I know it was basically just a theory I made on the spot in the theater, but damn, it would have made the ending so much more satisfying in my opinion.

[@spudg8558]

@@EasyEighty-Eight That's way better than what we got and yeah that's a good word for it lol. I don't think the writers would go for this even if they thought of it because 1. Riddler is supposed to be a caricature of an angry white 4chan user. Having him work with the good guy mayor candidate makes him more sympathetic and if she's actively working with him, that undermines her moral perfection. Two big no-nos given the angle they're pushing with these characters.

[@Elizabelle79]

Hey! Fringy! Awesome job, man! Very impressive maiden voyage at the Long Helm. Looking forward to more. :)

[@hecatomb2565]

The annoyed expression on Fringy's avatar fit perfectly so many times during this stream. Especially at the 7-hour mark.

[@dna0303]

I had a similar situation too where a couple teen girl behind us kept giggling at parts that definitely weren’t comedic. I was more so confused rather than annoyed

[@samwallaceart288]

Had a party of guys next to me that'd chuckle like "hehe, NICE." from time to time but they were quiet about it so it was fine.

[@samuelrichards5521]

Good chance they were talking about how hot Robert Pattinson is

[@AcronixPrime]

As someone who was apart of a group of women who openly laughed in the theater during this film, I can tell you that it's a way to defuse tension and communicate disbelief/ridicule to a group without verbal speech. For example, when something occurs in a film that you believe to be so egregiously bad or simply ridiculous, you can scoff or produce a soft laugh to effectively communicate these feelings with others, nonverbally, to the effect of checking the thoughts and feelings of others. If someone agrees with your thoughts or feelings towards this moment, they will respond in kind with either an agreeing laugh or scoff, thus creating a moment of silent communication and group bonding/reassurance. The problem others find in this is how loud this nonverbal communication can become when it is a larger group. Laughter can easily ramp up due to how it can add on to itself. For example, say you and a friend are watching a comedy. The comedian tells a story that produces laughter from both of you, but while laughing at the story, your friend falls out of his chair, causing both you and your friend to laugh louder in response. This reaction is simply inherent to the way this emotional response functions.

[@CuhShark]

Had a group of teens laugh after Riddler said "you came" Thought that was funny lol

[@porc1429]

The last part of Riddler's plan shouldn't have happened. The only reason it did was to have a final big action scene. The "I'm Vengance" scene could've been replaced by having the Riddler saying it or maybe The Riddler's community started to use it as a slogan "We're Vengance" and that made Batman realize. Cause The riddler's motivation up to this point is killing the corrupt rich and revealing their lies so idk why he would kill everyone And there's some other flaws to that I want to talk about: That time bomb scene is stupid, Batman knows that the bomb is gonna explode but didn't move away or cover his face in advance. Instead he got knocked out. And a pretty big plot hole is gonna happen after this. Instead of unmasking Batman, the police decided to bring him to the police station? For what? Unmasking him isn't just for knowing his identity, is to check if Batman's got a head trauma. After Batman was unconscious, the next logical step for the police is to unmask him and send him to the hospital. That entire thing happened just because Matt Reeves wants to show Batman flying That chase scene with the Penguin. Batman chase Penguin through the highway and it resulted in trucks exploding, cars crashing, and people dying. Batman should've known that a high speed car chase would've resulted in someone crashing and dying. He could've avoided it by crashing the Penguin's car before he got in it or before he drove off or just capture Penguin later. He already know Penguin is at the Iceberg Lounge and could've easily just interrogate or capture him there. People died in the car crash because of Batman And Catwoman's relationship with Batman is not well developed. She and Batman worked together and talk a couple of times and in the next scene they're kissing. It doesn't feel earned. That's the problem with this movie. It wants to do cool stuff but doesn't have a well thought out reason for why the cool stuff happens.

[@fencserx9423]

Rags in the beginning yelling “DOESNT KNOW HOW TO FKING COUNT” made me roll 😂😂

[@kylefrank638]

Okay so Fringy says "btw we forgot to mention Gotham is below sea level, the big scary endgame for Riddler is to blow up the barriers and flood Gotham" and they just move on... but I was bothered by that in the theatre, and I don't know if I just missed the first mention of Gotham being below sea level, or if that really is just information dropped right in the third act.

[@egomania2792]

I think it is really just information dropped in the third act. I can't recall any other info on that sooner than that.

[@kylefrank638]

@@egomania2792 Yeah, would've been nice if that little factoid was mentioned or shown even one other time before it comes into play later. Like how Batman Begins establishes the monorail thing early so it's not just "Oh yeah, Ra's is going to execute his plan using this rail system you never knew existed until now". And in that movie's case, it's even symbolic, because the train is the Wayne family's own contribution to the city, now being used negatively.

[@badbadgr5498]

Seems like an easy throwaway line too. Have one of the mayoral candidates mention the upkeep of the seawalls being an issue. Would take 2 seconds, and from there you can put in as much worldbuilding as you want

[@thegrimknight3178]

They do mention it in the first act of the movie.

[@thegrimknight3178]

@@badbadgr5498 They exactly did this in the movie, i guess u werent paying attention.

[@kawaiiamethist]

Jeeves is from the Jeeves stories by P.G Wodehouse. He's a valet, not a butler, though. A valet (pronounced val-et, not val-ay) serves one person and a butler serves a household. I haven't read the stories, but I do have the DVDs of the TV series Jeeves and Wooster; it stars Stephen Fry as Jeeves and Hugh Laurie as Wooster.

[@andrewconrad2859]

Good to know about the pronunciation of valet. I've been watching Downton Abbey and was confused by the pronunciation of valet. I had only ever heard val-lay, as in a car parker/driver.

[@samwallaceart288]

Oh so a valeT in the _Downton Abbey_ sense of the word

[@kawaiiamethist]

@@samwallaceart288 Never watched the show, but yes.

[@kawaiiamethist]

@@andrewconrad2859 I was in the same boat, familiar with val-ay drivers, but had never heard of val-ets till Jeeves and Wooster.

[@bartholomewthered9143]

Good to see another member of the toxic brood who knows Jeeves and Wooster

[@NickYoung22]

The spray paint on Bruce’s floor is to further correlate the similarities between him and riddler. Riddler had his mission under the carpet written in white.

[@symbolmonkey23]

In regards to the 4:20:00 hot take, I would say in this movie the plot happening is not a coincidence because in the story it was happening before Batman existed, the Riddler donning his Riddler persona probably isn't coincidence either because it plays into that idea Batman created his villains, these people would have been crazy to begin with, but Batman is what inspired them to their gimmicks

[@williamcronshaw5262]

Was I the only one that found it hilarious that Riddler's followers appear to be loading their weapons and magazines AFTER already getting in to the stadium?

[@tannerchaffin9235]

Also, the weapon choice was a bit odd. At first, literally everyone has scoped, bolt action hunting rifles. These rifles are slow to reload and can't carry many rounds at once, but everyone has them, and they show a big stack of *loose* bullets sitting next to the guys who are proned out. Is the plan to shoot 5 shots, and individually reload them over and over again? Then once batman hops in, everyone has semi/fully automatic weapons and only the guys in the smoke cloud seem to have bolt action rifles again. Weird choices there imo.

[@CaptainTitforce]

@@tannerchaffin9235 I guess the rifles could be because that would be a common hunting weapon that these common crazy men could have easily acquired? Can't really comment on that semi/full automatic part, since I can't remember if they clearly showed which weapon each thug was carrying...

[@tannerchaffin9235]

@@CaptainTitforce potentially, but the movie takes place in what is essentially New York city, and I wouldn't think that many New Yorkers own bolt action hunting rifles. If the baddies bought the guns specifically for this event (which the glimpse at Riddler's computer implies since they are asking things like "what caliber"), then they definitely wouldn't pick scoped rifles. You can accurately use iron sights on an AR15 at 100m easily. I believe we see about 8 guys with these rifles all at once, but once batman jumps in and starts getting peppered with bullets, only 1-2 rifles remain and everyone else suddenly has more effective weapons not only for batman, but their original target too. Movies need that "assassination are done with a single shot" thing, but if all 8 guys just opened up with those automatic weapons, the mayor 100% would be dead.

[@Schlumbuo]

@@tannerchaffin9235 bit late to this, but in the confession vid, theres the chat talking about where to get supplies for the final act, and it very much reads like most of the people there werent familiar with bombs or guns, but they just want to help the riddler. it isnt super easy to see in that section but the semi auto guys are mixed in with the guys with traditional hunting weapons. Most of the guys that show up just got weapons. Its why the guy with the shotgun takes so long to reload.

[@mrmxyzptlk8906]

They had a lot of time to set up, they weren’t exactly in a hurry

[@JellyfaceProductions]

I’m sure there’s a DC animated short where Lucius Fox develops completely bullet proof armour. After seeing how it works, Bruce Wayne rejects it - as completely protecting himself would put others in danger from shrapnel.

[@SantosAl]

There is, it was a part of a compilation of short films. Think it was called Gotham Knight.

[@thewickerman5121]

"Is it a Coincidence that Bruce Wayne and Batman is the same person" - Fringy 2022 A quote that would be in a video essay lol.(I know there's more to this, just funny out of context)

[@ed-210]

4:21:00

[@federicoarmada8775]

I though the Riddler knew Bruce was Batman since the beginning and built his whole plan around that.

[@michaeldailor702]

Weren't Selina's shoes in the nightclub just part of her work uniform? Thats the impression I got. Doesn't she wear them again in the club later? She's poor so maybe she only has one pair of shoes good enough to wear in the club?

[@sparkypack]

Selina, Selina, Selina.. That's my name, don't wear it out. :D

[@juanchitaro5380]

She should sell some of her professional thief gear to afford more footwear.

[@-PVL93-]

Just go Barefoot, problem solved

[@samwallaceart288]

Poor people'll invest their money in nice clothing. People with no furniture but mountains of shoes is the norm, not the exception.

[@HadesFist]

If it’s part of her work uniform, then she wouldn’t have to pay for it…but who the fucks knows Club Penguin dress code?

[@HectorLopez0217]

Oh the misery! We live in a society!

[@xentiment6581]

Spare the simpathy, we live in a *SOCIETY!*

[@leetmeathead]

I dont think you guys mentioned this but I also thought it was really convenient that the riddler didn't show up in person to kill Bruce Wayne when everyone else he killed himself. He had access to the mayors house, it is hard for me to imagine he couldn't break into Bruce's or at least wouldn't try.

[@za-ir5ni]

You think breaking into a mansion is the same thing as breaking into the other victims' houses? Damn, do you guys ever think before you make a dumb complaint to try to bring up a "convenience". Also his method would have been different anyways because Bruce wasn't the same kind of target and his intention was to blow him up. Also, how the fuck would it be a convenience if the Riddler breaking into Bruce's place would have ended in failure?

[@leetmeathead]

@@za-ir5ni I think it would be assumed that the mayor would have more security than some rich reclusive guy, so why would he not do it? Also he has no idea when that package will actually get to Bruce so he was pretty much just hoping the timing worked out. It wouldn't have been a convenience if he tried to break in and it didn't work out because it would have been the same thing he did to the other people he killed. It would have made sense for him to try to kill bruce in person and fail because he didnt know he was batman. He waited for the DA guy in his car and I don't think we saw how he caught the other ones but all of them were in person since he tortured and recorded it. So just saying "he wants to blow Bruce up" doesn't explain the difference in methods.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@leetmeathead Breaking into a billionaire's skyscraper penthouse when you're a poor loser isn't that easy. For one he'd struggle to get past the doorman, if he managed to get in the lobby there's no way he'd be allowed to use the elevators. Bruce Wayne being a reclusive means he's not out in public often enough to be a targeted.

[@shovingausbdriveupmynose.7823]

The riddler or at least the movie was hinting towards the explosion with the left cards

[@shovingausbdriveupmynose.7823]

*letter

[@symbolmonkey23]

I almost wonder if the exploding collar was supposed to be explode more like the ones in Battle Royale but the studio had them change it for the PG-13 rating

[@jackfink5808]

I could be wrong about this, but I believe there is a line in the film that could at least slightly address the convenient nature of Bruce meeting Selina in his meeting with Penguin. When Selina is talking to Bruce about the club within the club at Iceberg Lounge, she mentions that she sees all the powerful people come in. Therefore, I believe it could be reasonable to infer that she would have seen Batman come in to the club. This may have prompted her to see why Batman was in the club, which would have led her to buy the drops from Penguin while he was talking to Batman. At this point in the film, there is news about Mitchell’s death and she is also aware that Mitchell has some dealings with Annika. She knows at this point that Mitchell has Annika’s passport and therefore, she could be trying to see what information Batman is getting from Penguin as she has a personal stake in the controversy with Mitchell due to Annika’s involvement. It is certainly convenient that Bruce sees Selina at just the right time. This also wouldn’t address the convenience of her wearing the exact boots he needs to see. However, I believe the writing for this meetup is slightly less convenient than it may seem upon further inspection.

[@za-ir5ni]

I think quibbling over something like this being a "convenience" and therefore saying it's bad writing is really dumb.

[@matthewcronshaw9331]

@@za-ir5ni You don't think relying on crazy coincidences to progress a story is bad writing?

[@ReaLMoisan]

@@za-ir5ni It's called anecdotal writing, and it's sometimes referred to as "this happens, and then this happens, and then...". If you're familiar with Mauler's content, he talks about this writing issue in his most recent video, A Critique of Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Part 4. I don't believe Mauler uses the technical term of anecdotal writing, but it's justifiably considered bad writing.

[@jakesimpson3373]

@@matthewcronshaw9331 it isn’t really that crazy of a coincidence, though. Penguin was probably getting drinks and drugs delivered in and out of that room all night, and Selina was a bartender

[@matthewcronshaw9331]

@@jakesimpson3373 I haven't actually seen the movie, so I have no way of knowing/arguing how convenient it was. I'm just questioning the other person whether they believe plot conveniences are an example of bad writing.

[@Destractoid]

I found it weird when Batman followed Selina that her gadgets where all on a wall that could be seen through a window AND neither of them closed any windows at night. The second point is especially strange when you think that Selina's friend would probably be concerned about being found right now.

[@rindoubaka1574]

I mean, when people see a tight leather outfit and a bullwhip hung up near the bedroom, they might not automatically think Cat Burglar..... But I get your point.

[@Destractoid]

@@rindoubaka1574 there was a lot more there than just the whip. There was an *entire wall* of stuff that a person would not typically have.

[@rindoubaka1574]

@@Destractoid Fair enough, it was just an excuse for me to make an unsavoury joke.

[@alexhayden219]

I don't like this version of The Riddler. I almost did. I thought he was better and more interesting than I expected or the majority of the movie. But I think he's ruined by the climaxes and explanations. Why the fuck would he think that he and Batman are on the same side? Why is he leaving riddles for Batman? Why does he think the cops will cooperate with him and invite Batman in - and if that's expected, why would Riddler think they're on the same side, when the cops and Batman are cooperating? Why wasn't there any evidence that Riddler and his online friends liked Batman when they were discovered? I'm very open to understanding things that I didn't understand in this movie if there are things to understand, but I don't think the ends justify the means. Was there anything that I missed that introduced the idea at all that Gotham is below sea level and protected by sea walls at any point before pulling up the rug? I hope I missed something, but I don't think I did and don't think EFAP mentioned it earlier or covered it enough when it was brought up. It's just "third act escalation for nough reason" when the rest of the movie felt like there was a clear purpose to the Riddler's killings and goals. The flooding seemed out of nowhere because they felt like they didn't have a big city-saving set piece and "you need one in a superhero movie." Please explain to me why I'm wrong and be correct about it. For a lot of the movie, I was under the impression that Riddler was leaving clues for the dual purpose of proving that he's smarter than the police and as a direct challenge to Batman. That's what his motive typically is, that makes more sense as a motive to involve Batman or riddles at all in his murder spree, and it makes a lot more sense than what's presented in this movie by the end. Riddler is more compelling if he's so confident in his own intellect and also has extreme OCD that he needs to challenge someone to stop him. He made a lot more sense up until his confession scene. That retroactively ruined everything he did prior. It's not just a preference thing. It's a this doesn't make sense thing, unless someone can prove to me that it does.

[@J__T]

I really want to see EFAP view Adam West's run as the Bright Knight. If not the '66 movie, just the first 2 episodes (which is, of course, a 2 parter) with the villain being the Riddler, mind you.

[@theshadowbadger]

Also, all they needed to fix the leather helmet is let him get shot in the head (NOT POINT BLANK) disoriented for a minute and showing a layer of metal of unspecified qualities peeking out of the leather. It doesn’t make it realistic, but it makes disbelief easier to suspend.

[@szeltovivarsydroxan9944]

It is so weird, because the shape of the cowl looks already like an actual Kevlar helmet. Why they decided to show him take it of like a leather cap is beyond me.

[@arcuscotangens]

"It falls of exponentiall, it's the inverse square law." Peak numeracy.

[@jamesknapp64]

people confuse anything that "more than linear" as Exponential.

[@arcuscotangens]

@@jamesknapp64 I've heard exponential be used for lots of linear processes though, as well as for comparisons between two data points which could obviously fit almost any function. For most people big number = exponential apparently. I think this is comes from _science_ content becoming popular online, where the term is used correctly but without explaining when it is applicable. What makes this example stand out to me is that he actually knows the true formula. Or at least he mentions it.

[@Don-Scrima]

You can fix the problem with the stuff under the carpet with a single throwaway line from Riddler about, “Sweeping the rest under the rug.”

[@iainmcdonalds4018]

Oh hey, just watching the Suicide Squad gag reel and one of the scenes that was obviously cut was one of the analysts talking about how they'd asked if Weasel can swim. So they were aware of it, but cut it out. Just interesting.

[@emptyblank099a]

The biggest plothole is why didnt batman investigate his parents death

[@Arko777777]

I will just copy my reply from unlisted. This stream might be one of the few times that I'm not aligning with EFAP a bit (which is ok, as Mauler once said) when it comes to the movie critique, and I'd say that they seem to be harsher on the movie than usual. No way Batman (2022) is 5/10, the same rating you've given Squid Game when the B plot in that series was insanely horrible and contrived to the limit. Given everything positive compared to negative in Batman (2022), it sits somewhere around 7/10. I came back to the 4th hour of the stream after I finished the movie in the cinema, so I will need to rewatch the stream to catch the rest of the critique. There were some fair points - the Bat-Signal being on the unguarded building, which is weird, and the unclear phone situation, but the Riddler's plan ultimately made sense. He was insane BUT only in his methods and not insane as per the usual EFAP definition of (insane = every action is handwaved by the plot). I'm willing to hear more criticisms that I've missed and discuss the movie more with the other members of the EFAP community.

[@theeloquentweiner7054]

I completely agree with you on the rating the batman for me is a strong 7 Now rewatching it on digital, I'd bring it down from a 7 to a 5 lol

[@archstanton9073]

If you're a criminal in Gotham, would you want to track down the source of the Bat Signal....a place the Batman is very likely to be? I don't mind it being unguarded. It's a little silly but doesn't break the story.

[@a.r.t93]

The Riddlers social media tactics were kinda weirdly written, for me... I think they describe it as "he's been posting all kinda things online and he's got like 500 followers" and that his last video has a bunch of views but its password protected.. So did he give out this password to specific viewers he trusted (which.. idk bout that) or they all figured out the password before gcpd?

[@nachiketh3650]

Yeah Efap boys are biased about batman. They are too deep into marvel-iness. I agree that it's a 7/10. I have watched the movie twice. Almost every single thing made sense and the Riddler endgame was also on point. I personally think the last 15 minutes could've been done in 3. And that joker/two face cameo felt out of place and cringe. All in all this was a valid and exciting take on Batman that was worth the wait. Felt like batman was actually menacing.

[@Arko777777]

​@@archstanton9073 Some powerful gang may one day try to get rid of Bats using the fake signal, just to lure him into the trap. I think that's a possibility given his reputation and being a general pain in the bottom to the general evildoer.

[@thebadbandito]

I think the point of batman showing up to the club is to juxtapose when he does it as Bruce Wayne and gets in without issue. I really liked how the film was telling us that Bruce was having trouble separating his identities.

[@boojaliciousiii3797]

Rags should know the "pool's closed" is from Habbo Hotel and not Club Penguin.

[@sweatycalves]

I'm defense of the door situation, the thugs probably treated him like a schmuck because they know they own the city as part of the mob. So they fear him less than the average thug because they think he can't do anything permanent to them.

[@emuman09]

When they are talking about a more grounded way to do the signal they said shine it on a building but then you'd have to hope Batman can see that particular side of the building

[@scottf5791]

No shite

[@emuman09]

@@scottf5791 thanks? Wtf

[@scottf5791]

@@emuman09 it took you 5 months to reply to this comment? Who cares what I said lol

[@emuman09]

@@scottf5791 who cares how long it took. Look I took longer now. Piss off

[@aaram9966]

the wayne murder is the inciting incident which allows for the conspiracy to come into being, which in turn creates the riddler. the wayne murder is also the inciting incident that caused batman to come into being, which also contributes to the riddlers creation. thus, batman being bruce wayne and bruce wayne being connected to the conspiracy is not a contrivance. it is cause and effect stemming from the wayne murders.

[@RiylanCorma]

"BENT!" Thanks Jay. Much appreciated.

[@dungusyungus245s]

The power of vengeance, in the palm of my hand...

[@unicron24]

bats are actually called "rats with wings"... rats spread dis ease, same as how they say bats do according to the wu han lab in china.

[@emuman09]

I've only ever heard rats with wings when referring to pigeons so it worked for me

[@szeltovivarsydroxan9944]

In German a bat is called "Fledermaus" which literally translated is "flutter mouse".

[@scottk1525]

btw, how the hell did Riddler's henchmen manage to get into the rafters of an arena in the wake of an election? That must be one of the hardest places in the world to sneak into alone, let alone as a 50 man platoon of masked goons armed with rifles.

[@EndlessVacuum]

Why'd they make batwoman a man?

[@jedibusiness66]

Funny you should bring up the dilemma of a riddle having more than one answer. In the Gotham show, Riddler gets super pissed because Lucius Fox doesn’t give the right answer to one of his riddles. The answer still fits the question, but it’s just not the one the Riddler wants. Fox fails Riddler’s test to become his worthy adversary. So we’re left to conclude that no one will fill that role until Batman enters the picture.

[@SefniAsheforr]

Surely this deserves a higher rating than No Way Home? NWH had a completely nonsensical, contrived, character assassinating plot to set everything up. While this film did not suffer anything that major. Not to say that NWH didn't have amazing character work, but the plot was a complete mess from top to bottom. The mechanics were completely borked. Whereas this film was more flawed in regards to some plot armor moments. But that wasn't constant or perennial throughout. The only two sequences I felt were a little egregious in the plot armor were the car chase and the final battle with Riddler's followers. Batman succeeded pretty reliably through contrivances during those. But that feels less fundamentally probelamatic than the entire set up and plot being nonsense.

[@Wlof25]

How did they score it?

[@SefniAsheforr]

@@Wlof25 6 to 7 out of ten among every host.

[@emberhusk]

Yeah, it should probably rate higher, but there might be some marvel bias here.

[@GigaMoth]

The reason why “I am the shadows” isn’t edgy when used in this film is because we are immediately shown well filmed and well written proof of this line. He isn’t just some edgy character stating that he’s the shadows. He contextualizes this by referencing that bat signal and how “it’s not only a call but a warning to the criminals of Gotham.” He quite literally is the shadows of Gotham. To criminals he is always there, waiting and watching from the darkness. It isn’t edgy because we are both shown and told.

[@arvatrontheiv2220]

You say that, but it is kind of edgy though. If anything I felt like the visuals and context made the line kind of redundant but that might just be me.

[@petery6432]

I'd say it's earned edginess

[@christianstacy5573]

I'm 2 hours and 25 minutes in and I just understood the Club Penguin joke

[@mitchellhenke1254]

in defense of the dark hallway machine gun spark scene, if you look, the weapons they're firing are not rifles, but what appear to be mp5s and mp5ks, 9mm submachine guns with short barrels, effectively automatic pistols. Further, the darkness combined with the fear combined with the the recoil of firing its more believable than you'd think. However, the most damning firearms scene is by far the battle on the rafters, where batman is struck with what appear to be ruger american rifles, likely chambered in .308 Winchester, out of long barrels at close range, which should kill him within the first 2-3 successful shots on his armor (i believe they use bolt action rifles to specifically limit how fast the bad guys can shoot at him, which is a little lame/cheating from a writing perspective). A common misconception from people is that the shotgun blast should kill him, however this isn't as likely in reality. 12 gauge buckshot does not have the penetrative power to go through rifle rated armor plates, and even some modern handgun rated soft armor, however the force generated at close range on his armor should knock him back, perhaps not as extremely as we so though. the ambush scene where batman falls to the ground and teleports is a middle ground, all of the mobsters firing at batman use either pistols or submachine guns which would be unlikely to penetrate. a lot of people seem to misunderstand how firearms and armor interact; besides a round penetrating the armor the second greatest risk is being hit by fragmentation as rounds spall on impact, which is why a lot of modern body armor is designed to absorb and catch as many fragments as possible in addition to stopping the rounds. even if they miss the small target of his jaw or head or choose to aim center mass, and even if batman can effectively stop the rounds it seems like enough to fragment and hit either a less protected area of his suit or face. it also seems wierd that not once in this movie does batman suffer a gunshot wound, not even to his legs or arms which are less armored than his torso. because of the nature of the scenes taking place in close quarters and/or in dark environments i dont think this is as bad as mando, but if mando is 9/10 to 10/10 plot armor, batman should get at least a 6/10 or 7/10

[@Djhiphop1000000000]

Someone with a brain, nice. Yea Batman is known for plot armor but it’s not to some ridiculous extent here. What he goes through is fair.

[@tannerchaffin9235]

I'd probably disagree with the first scene in the hallway, but I'd need to count how many shots actually hit the armor. I also can't remember whether or not he staggers at all from the shots, but he definitely would, even with pistol caliber rounds. I understand how they wouldn't be able to directly target his face though since the only light came from the muzzle flashes. I also didn't like the bolt action rifles at the end, especially because they later have automatic weapons in the same location. AR-15s would've made much more sense to take out the mayor too simply because you have more rounds to make your escape from the police, if that is their goal.

[@williamcronshaw5262]

@@Djhiphop1000000000 It kind of is ridiculous though. If he's wearing flexible armor made of Kevlar and Ceramic plates than the bullet resistance is incredibly limited. The amount of shots he takes is absurd, even if it's mostly smaller rounds like 9mm a ceramic plate in a Kevlar carrier can only withstand so many shots (especially if any of them land in the same general area). Now if he is wearing Steel plates, that makes the amount of shots he takes more believable as thick steel plates are indeed incredibly durable. The problem with Steel plates though is that they are heavy and not flexible at all, hence why the military generally doesn't use them. If he's covered from head to toe in thick steel plates than his range of movement and speed is going to be restricted which I don't see any evidence of. Also, no way in hell that Shotgun shell at the end would do anything to a steel plate. And then you have the two most egregious examples of plot armor in the movie. Batman tanks a bomb at point blank range (for some reason, still not sure why). Armor isn't going to help you there especially when your chin is completely exposed to shrapnel. Also, the scene where he glides down to the bus and then deploys a parachute (again, not sure why he does this) which gets caught in a stone bridge that he then gets slammed into headfirst. That would more than likely take his head off. And btw, I overall enjoyed the movie. But I'm also not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend it's perfect.

[@Jiiinxyyy]

I think an explanation they could've added if they still kept the ending the same would be to make a distinction between the Riddler's beliefs and the shooters. The shooters would then basically corrupt what the Riddler believes even more to the extreme that they believe Gotham or the people aren't worth saving and that everyone should die. I think it would only take one or two extra scenes where it shows how the shooters want to get rid of everyone no matter what because everyone is part of the "system" in their eyes, including the innocent. This could also then be used to show how the Riddler is caught as he tries to warn Batman. Or maybe he called the police first to warn them but they don't take it seriously or that some kind of police shootout happens instead of the flood. I think something like this would help the third act a lot and both keep the Riddler consistent while also having some kind of crazy action scene at the end like the filmmakers wanted.

[@Nexus_Hives]

I enjoyed what I heard of the discussion. Now to hear the rest of it. Unlisted Gang is better. Hi Rags. Kick Jay

[@Dogboon-]

I've slept through many films at the cinema. Some films I've never seen officially because if this. The Peter Jackson king Kong, I slept all the way until they reached the island.

[@danishcartoonist545]

Unlisted is always better

[@theliato3809]

I didn’t see the whole stream but just in case this question wasn’t asked. Was “The Batman.” Good flying RAT?

[@dyllwill]

But what makes good RAT? That is the question.

[@pirig-gal]

@@dyllwill Well, flying, for one.

[@unpopularopinions7407]

@@dyllwill Not eating faces is also a good indication

[@adriangore850]

First minute pretty much sums up the entire 10 hour movie!

[@sparkypack]

2:17:00 what is this reaction from Rags? 🐧🐧🐧 xD Fringy : she goes.. Rags : Fringy, it took me this long, Fringy!

[@MAandS]

@1:26:00 ish. Alfred and the Circus. In Le Carres spy novels, his version of MI6 is called the Circus. It's a hard nod to some of the most prolific spy fiction ever written. Most ppl know The Spy Who Came in From the Cold and Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. I'm guessing. But it a huge coincidence if it isn't

[@GregSarabiaArt]

You’re right. I don’t think they meant he was a lion tamer.

[@ThatJediReviews]

39:00 what happened to Rag's's's, is exactly what happened to me. This dude was snoring from the beginning so I had to tap him and ask him if he was alright... He said sorry for being loud. I told him we can only hear the snoring and not the movie. But I did it in a kind manner. He was cool with it, and he stopped sleeping the rest of the movie.

[@cameronjames3499]

1:23:56 Jeeves is a valet, though he does occasionally buttle.

[@jedibusiness66]

Even in Batman and Robin he had to make a choice like the one you described. Mr. Freeze freezes Robin: “Chase the villain, or save the boy!? Your emotions make you weak! That’s why this day’s mine!”

[@Coruptin]

Another stream where Rags pretends that his surface knowledge of firearms makes him an expert

[@GregSarabiaArt]

It’s just the best tangents every time lol

[@donsolomon1088]

Oh no the american is talking about guns who woulda seen that coming

[@jedibusiness66]

*Lets bats out* “Rats with wings, do your thing!” -Penguin, Batman Returns

[@Klespyrian]

Fringy has a personality quirk I have never seen in anyone before. He will misunderstand what someone says (or they misrepresent their own point) and disagree with them. Then, when the person clarifies, Fringy will agree with them but go back to their old misunderstood point and continue to argue against it for a while. Seen it on about half a dozen EFAPs or more now - it's quite a thing. Edit: For clarity.

[@emuman09]

Just saw it again and you do see the ramp truck thing for a few seconds before it gets into the convenient position for the batmobile. So not quite appears out of nowhere but probably should have been shown better.

[@jaredjimenez2305]

This has got to be one of the best EFAPs I've watched in a while, which is saying something since you guys usually set the bar high anyways, thanks ya massive's.

[@thebadbandito]

I think the film is telling you that in year 2-3 batman hasn't learned to use Bruce Wayne as a different type of mask. His voice as batman gets more and more separated from Bruce as the film goes on. I love how violent he is and how he learns where to draw the line throughout the film. The last act has a lot of issues but they didn't ruin the movie for me. I thought it was pretty damn great.

[@notacompleteidiot...1285]

43:28 "I am the terror...that flaps in the night!!"

[@destro47]

Couple pieces of information you guys may not have noticed or brought up, or I potentially didn't hear discussed. The Riddler in this movie is a combination of The Riddler and Hush, Thomas Elliot, from the comics. The reason The Riddler exists in this movie, like Batman, is vengeance. Riddler was the son of the reporter, Edward Elliot, that Thomas Wayne and Falcone killed. He grew up a poor orphan that nobody knew or cared about, because Thomas and Martha Wayne died the same day as his dad, and took all the media attention. He spent years piecing the corruption together through financials(he's a forensic accountant), and drew in Batman in as his "partner" to help him achieve vengeance on the one man he couldn't get near himself.

[@ETBrooD]

Batman has a no kill rule (although that also doesn't make sense in this movie, but anyway). So if the Riddler believes that Batman would assist him in his plan, he's either stupid or he doesn't know the first thing about Batman.

[@destro47]

@@ETBrooD yeah they turned him into a moron at that point of the movie. The movie should have ended with Riddler in jail getting the last laugh for using Batman to get the kill.

[@NickYoung22]

For “el ratta alada” the cypher IS El, not La. It was on purpose because it wasn’t meant to be correct it was supposed to be U R L phonetically.

[@Kernwadi]

"Comments are subjective." -Bilbo Baggins

[@fightingmedialounge519]

I don't know if I would go as far as to say that the motivation behind the Wayne's death being a mystery is saying he shouldn't focus so much on vengeance( after all he could still seek out the murderer even if it was just a petty thief). It seemed to more imply that what a person could take away from a situation isn't necessarily the truth. This notion tying back to how riddler perceives his relationship with batman.

[@UncreatedWings]

Was that Andy Serkis guy supposed to be Alfred? If so he did a pretty good job here :)

[@Kernwadi]

Why was 6 afraid of 7? It's a fairly common question, mostly because when people see 6 and 7 next to each other, it doesn't really make sense. 6 is large, muscled, and trained in multiple martial arts, while 7 is fairly average, physically, and short. However, 6's fear of 7 has its roots in childhood. See, 6 and 7 grew up together, and for a few years, they were best friends. But then 6 kissed 3, and they became childhood sweethearts. 7 secretly had feelings for 3, so 7 decided he needed to destroy 6 to win 3's affection. He started subtly, undermining 6 whenever possible with passive aggressive comments and compli-sults. But over time, things got much more insidious. 7 started messing with 6's performance in school, bringing down his grades and turning teachers against him. Even worse, 7 became great friends with 6's parents and slowly turned them against their own offspring. At night, 7 would sneak into 6's bedroom, and whisper depressing and hopeless things into his ears. Every time 3 was around, 7 would pants 6 and make fun of his genitalia, or try to body shame him in other ways. However, 3 was both smart and compassionate, and saw through 7's schemes, sticking with 6, trying to counter 7's psychological tear-down with compliments and friendship. Finally, 7 decided that he would never be able to win 3, so he drugged both 6 and 3, taking them to an abandoned cobbler's hut on the edge of town. There, he proceeded to torture and maim 3, forcing 6 to watch in horror, unable to do anything to save his sweetheart. 7 didn't kill 3, but instead, put her in a semi-vegetative state. 7 cleaned the scene of his prescence, then called the cops, having 6 blamed for 3's condition. 6 was sent to prison, believing 6 was guilty, 6's parents fell into a deep depression, eventually committing suicide over what they believed 6 had done. After serving 17 years of a 30 year sentence, and getting out on good behaviour, 6, now muscled and skilled as a fighter, thought he might get revenge on 7. But when he finally tracked down 7, he found out that 7 had installed a micro-bomb into 3's body, and should he be killed, the bomb would automatically go off and kill 3 as well. And though she was still in a mostly fugue state, 6 couldn't bring himself to hurt her any further, and decided to try and move on with his life. However, being an ex-con, it was difficult for him to get a job. 6 finally found employment at a diner, which 7 then bought, and proceeded to again undermine and toy with 6 at every turn. 6 tried to find employment elsewhere, but 7 contacted any potential employer and soured them against 6. 6 finally realized that no matter what he did, 7 was going to try and ruin his life, and he resigned himself to living as a broken, lonely man, never able to stand up to the depraved, amoral 7.

[@alexholker1309]

1:54:22 There have actually been cases where a man has been shot through a silk kerchief and suffered a mortal wound, without piercing the silk. Unless the threads are broken when the bullet squashes the fabric against the armour, the cape could survive without immediately failing.

[@pirig-gal]

You mean that the bullet pulls the silk into the wound? The silk is a strong material, but I can't understand how would that work.

[@alexholker1309]

@@pirig-gal That's exactly what happened - look up Dr. George E. Goodfellow if you're interested in the specifics.

[@pirig-gal]

@@alexholker1309 Thank you. Another interesing bit of knowledge for my brain. Interestingly, the first bulletproof vests were invented by a Polish immigrant in Chicago, and they were made from multiple layers of silk.

[@Nethseaar]

@Alex Hokler Nifty fact! Although, remember that Batman had also just been through an explosion. I think it a stretch to say that the wingsuit would have been in pristine condition.

[@Mad_Priest]

38:25 - "Ah, good for you, Jay". Classy doggo XD

[@KeacePeeper]

About the Question if it is a coinsidence that Bruce Wayne is Batman: In this movie? No. I think both are in effect symptomes of the same Problem. Because Gotham is such a social climate and culture that allows a Conspiracy like the one we deal with in this movie to happen was also reason why the Wayne Murder took place. Also the Waynes Money is relevant for the Conspiracy due to the Renewal Program. And those Riches allow Bruce to be Batman - since ths is what allows him to have his equipment and it led to the Waynes having Alfred as a Butler who, as this Film implies, has taught him to fight and is also helping out. So no the elements that made the conspiracy possible are the same Elements that led to Bruce becoming the Batman. I would not call that a coincidense.

[@drlee2]

The Batman is a 6/10 for me. My opinion aligned with the general consensus of the panel. The movie wasn’t terrible and had OK performances with nice music and cool cinematography and design, but it wasn’t great either and I had several plot and character issues. It was just this very long competent movie where I felt nothing after it was over. None of the main characters left any kind of impression and also there was zero chemistry between Batman and Catwoman. And I didn’t like a single minor character in this. They were all interchangeable.

[@mrmoyd007]

I believe I am burnt out with Earth One/grounded Batman. I basically want BTAS/Arkham series to life: Penguin to be English, Riddler to have some class, Bruce Wayne to be arrogant playboy. I hear they’re doing the trilogy to turn Batman into the one we know, a la Spider-Man, but the fantastical element seems to be completely stripped away. Which is a shame. I’ll never get my Robin or see a proper World’s Finest or anything of the sort. *Sigh*

[@PauloSilva-ep9ox]

l agree!! l had a rant about this Batman representation rs * sorry for my english**

[@superjlk_9538]

@@mrmoyd007 me too. After seeing this movie, it just felt like a retread of the Nolan films but less epic in scope. I want something similar to the BTAS. We need the mystical/meta human aspect of the lore intact

[@superjlk_9538]

@@mrmoyd007 Robin is definitely happening, but when he does he’s literally going to be a child.

[@Djhiphop1000000000]

So your taste is just as garbage as them, nice.

[@lol-hy4mk]

Inferior riddler didn't even leave 600 trophies all over gotham city.

[@zeroman614]

Thumb drive…

[@szeltovivarsydroxan9944]

Dumb thrive

[@Haruspex528]

Why did fringy say we don't see the girls face in the pictures? You do and you see that she's clearly been beaten

[@egomania2792]

It was an ok movie. I went out of the cinema and both me and my flatmate said that this movie is basically Se7en with Batman in it. We both gave it 7/10s. What took me out of it at times was the inconsistency with his armor, sometimes he walks straight into gunfire and is fine, and other times he is almost completely taken out of the fight by one shot. Oh, and he absolutely should not have survived that bomb. Also the car chase, as cool it looked, was kinda horrible. Several people died in that, and it isn't acknowledged with even one word afterwards. Nobody cares about the insane amount of damage that occured. Not to mention they could bring the Penguin in prison for causing the crash, but they just leave him there.

[@nhagan001]

Even if his armor would survive the bomb, just consider what the exposed part of his face would have looked like. Hell just imagine that bomb destroying his mouth and burning his throat.

[@waynesfiction8382]

I'll add to that. During the final fight scene with Riddler's goons, I was confused that Batman got knocked unconscious from taking bullets from the rifles cause in a previous scene Batman's armor took loads of ammunition from machine guns at point blank range and he was walking perfectly fine afterwards.

[@williamcronshaw5262]

@@waynesfiction8382 Yeah that one got me as well. He took a shotgun which doesn't actually have much in the way of penetration, but as shit ton of energy and stopping power.

[@scottf5791]

6/10. Cinematography and score was great. I appreciate Something in the Way song by Nirvana (the original and not the awful remixed trailer version. I’m sure Kurt was rolling in his grave when they first released the trailer). Beyond that everything else was forgettable. Not really sure why Colin Ferrell was Penguin playing a wannabe Ray Liotta character. Felt like they were trying too hard to make this movie like GoodFellas or the Departed. Everything that happened in the story seems pointless by the end as well. I did like the detective noire aspect in the first half though. I like that Peter Sarsgaard was in this movie as well. Wish he had more screen time. Such an underrated actor. Not excited for the new joker character either. Seems very generic. As bad as Jared Leto’s joker was, he seemed way more interesting then this one. I wish we got a Snyder Batfleck movie instead.