EFI vs Carburetor 383 LT4 on the dyno. No more debate.

This video documents the full day of dyno testing on Steve Vineyard's GM LT4 with EFI and the Edelbrock LT4 intake manifold. We also compare this same engine on the same dyno when it was running a carburetor and the GMPP LT1 carburetor manifold.
We have settled the debate. :)
There is no more argument.
The winner of the intake manifold contest is --- IT IS A TIE
Music by Power Gillespie,
"Tribute to A.L.E."
"Charger"
Check out the LT1 Tech playlist.

[@dogfacedponysoldier1692]

Thank you both very much for sharing this!

[@EllweinEngines]

No Problem-o. IT was fun working this project

[@mardymcdonald2334]

Killer vid, great info. 🍻 Karl and 🏁 for LT4 dude

[@JOHNNY07-wu3cd]

Good comparison

[@EllweinEngines]

thanks

[@sebbonxxsebbon6824]

Nice motor. I went with 6 inch rods on my 383.

[@Savineyard3]

At the time Eagle didn't have any 383 kits available for the Compression Ratio I was aiming for except for 1 engine kit but had 5.7 rods.

[@gregleenyit]

It's a Nice piece for sure! Gonna be a Fun car to drive. hopefully it's a 6spd with a proper gear. LT4 = FTW

[@Savineyard3]

Yes It's a stick 6-speed Z28. I was lucky to find a 93-97 6-speed with a Stage 3 Viper rebuild. Z28 is ready for the power with a full BMR Suspension with there 4 point sub frame connectors, Moser 12 Bolt Rear with 4.10s, Carbon fiber driveshaft, C5 Brakes with 2 piece Eradispeed Rotors up front and stock calipers in the rear but again with Baer's 13 inch Eradispeed Rotors in the rear.

[@ThomasELeClair]

@@Savineyard3 ,,,,,,I have a 1996 Z/28 , 6-speed, droptop LT-1 , It pops out of reverse gear when I park it.....Any helpful idea Why???.........Also , what is a 6-speed with a stage 3 viper rebuild??????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thanks...

[@Savineyard3]

@@ThomasELeClair If it pops out of reverse only, than I believe your reverse gear itself has some missing teeth on...

[@ThomasELeClair]

@@Savineyard3 .....I gotta pull the tailshaft off........thanks.......

[@Savineyard3]

Just to let people know, when we say Debate, we don't mean the overall debate of a Dual Plane Intake vs. a LT1/LT4 and especially in this case a Edelbrock Brand LT1/LT4 Intake Manifold, But the debate that me and Karl had between each other.

[@EllweinEngines]

Also I made that title as a click bait. Sort of an internet troll device. :)

[@ThomasELeClair]

@@EllweinEngines ,,,,,,hard to believe I'm saying this , but , Good clickbait.......................................................................

[@rfrank1980]

522 hp at 6100 rpms and 497tq at 5200 rpms. Go to 11:40 on the first pull. 529hp at 6000rpms and 495tq at 5000 rpms on the second pull at 13.45 ...... you're welcome

[@EllweinEngines]

Your right. I wonder where I got that 502 tq for the LT4 manifold on my chart. I'll figure it out.

[@Savineyard3]

@@EllweinEngines Don't know if you can fix it without taking the video down and reposting it without losing all the views so far. But if you can to do it, can you fix the top end horsepower for the Edelbrock LT4 manifold where it says 526 when it really made 529 on the power curve dyno chart? It's only 3 horsepower so I'm not sweating it if you can't.

[@Savineyard3]

@@EllweinEngines It happens. Your eye's start to hurt especially if you didn't sleep good the previous night.

[@EllweinEngines]

@@Savineyard3 I can do correction/comment in the main description.

[@Savineyard3]

@@EllweinEngines ok no problem. It's only a correction of 3 horsepower but it's where that 3 horsepower was made on the power curve were a lot of LT1/LT4/LS owners told me there's no way the Edelbrock LT4 Intake Manifold can make decent top end power against a ported factory intake LT1/LT4 manifolds because it has less plenum area in it's design to make it into a Air Gap Manifold. Now there might be some truth to that but my engine builder was able to get into the inside of the manifold and smooth out most of the casting flash and did minor port work that was needed.

[@smilsmff]

Get to porting the Intake or and 1 inch open spacer for a drag race using GMMP.

[@adamweaver6351]

I have trouble getting my TPS to show on HP tuners, but it works otherwise. Weird.

[@EllweinEngines]

Yes weird and glitchy. Sometimes the HP Tuners scanner won't log all channels I have selected and then I close and restart and it works. I think it's cable or specific computer related. I have one computer that HP Tuners runs rock solid on and so I just use it now.

[@jarmominkkinen9409]

Have LT4 in May Corvette 96 and wortech kompressor headers intercooler E85 Fjuel Runns grate.ECU Are from 92 we can mapping it.Have 768cc injektors.Manuel ZF 6 speed..

[@EllweinEngines]

That sounds awesome! Love Corvette LT4

[@mistered9435]

I’m hoping that I picked a good cam for my LT4. I have the comp xfi292 (468) cam, polished original LT4 crank, and LT4 heads that are heading to Harry’s Heads today. I’m running a tight quench, 6” rods, and the heads will be heavily ported, but it’s still a 355! I changed directions on the build right in the middle of it, otherwise it would be a 383. I am going to see if PCMforless can get a close tune. I already have an NOS opti, so I am hesitant to do the 24x conversion. This is for my 1997 camaro SS. It was an LT1 car, but I bought the LT4 heads and crank from a super-low-mile 1996 corvette that had a broken block (from freezing)!!!! lol Any thoughts?

[@EllweinEngines]

sounds good to me. No need for the TH if your opti is still strong. LT4 heads..awesome.

[@mistered9435]

On August 27th, a real GM LT4 intake popped up on EBay, I hit the “Buy-it-now” button immediately. A few days later, the seller refunded my money. I was very upset because I paid for it instantly, but I think we all know what happened. I had an extra LT1 intake laying around, so I welded some more material around the top of the intake port flanges, and i have been cleaning them up. Since my ‘97 SS is Arctic white, but did not have the stripes, I decided to “clone” the Special Edition. I ordered the stripe kit from Stencils and Stripes, found the LT4 heads and crank, and was going to end up with the closest thing to the real deal as one can get. After the intake incident, I decided to change course on the engine, so that’s why I ordered the big cam, headers, TB, etc. Happy to see your LT4 kicking butt.

[@Savineyard3]

I have a mint condition LT4 GM Intake. I purchased it after this video was made. Since this intake works great with my port matched heads, It's for sale.@@mistered9435

[@CLEEPER1]

Have you tested header primary and collector sizing on 383 lt1's?

[@EllweinEngines]

No. I have not had the time for that. If I owned my own dyno I could do that but that is just so costly for me to spend that time on a contracted dyno.

[@Savineyard3]

I forgot to ask Zach what the duty cycle percentage was with the 36 lb injectors.

[@EllweinEngines]

I'll see Zach today and hope to remember to ask. He will always have the logs on his laptop so I can catch him later if I forget today.

[@EllweinEngines]

Tuner Zach said low 80% duty cycle

[@Savineyard3]

@@EllweinEngines Got It. Also today I finally found my SD Card that had the footage I wanted to give you of my Z28 in motion instead of using one of my old pictures. My cat likes to hide things from me all around the house and she pulled it out from somewhere and was batting it all about and throwing it up in the air. I couldn't believe it.

[@EllweinEngines]

@@Savineyard3 Excellent

[@eddy3061]

Im just finishing up a 383 Torqhead LT1 for my 68 Camaro. I cant figure out what injectors to buy. So much info out there. Any idea where to purchase good set of injectors?

[@infamousnova]

Nope the debate isn't over

[@EllweinEngines]

My idea of good click-bait though.

[@nicklagreca3038]

How does the edelbrock intake compare to stock intake ?

[@EllweinEngines]

It is almost identical for performance. Hard to truly put an exact data gain or loss. My opinion is it does not increase performance and it does not take away.

[@EllweinEngines]

is the audio out of sync? I hope it's just my internet connection.

[@sstevocamaro]

What size headers are those?

[@Savineyard3]

@@sstevocamaro I believe they are 94-96 Impala SS LT1 Headers with 1-3/4 primaries made by Clear Image. Only reason we used these headers vs. the racing headers used in the old carb video was that these Impala SS Headers has 02 bungs welded in for the O2 Sensors on each side. The racing headers might have added another 2-4 horses on the top end cause there slightly longer with slightly better collectors.

[@EllweinEngines]

@@sstevocamaro Those are my personal set from Clear Image Automotive. They are 1.75" primary.

[@deonthomas7352]

Hey where can I get one of those carb intake

[@EllweinEngines]

Hello Deon, sorry did not see this. That GMPP manifold is still made and sold at all the usual places like Summit. Not as cheap as back 20 years ago. I think just an LT1 carb intake manifold search will bring up the part number

[@johnnyblackking169]

I did it on my LT1 engine came out of a caprice .its better than dealing with all those wires an it have some get up an go

[@sstevocamaro]

What size headers are those?

[@EllweinEngines]

1.75"

[@joshstaley7459]

love the video brother. you seem to be the LT1 guru i need a email so i can pick your brain apart. what type of injectors you running?

[@EllweinEngines]

Hi Josh, Email is [e-mail] I can answer any question you might have. Sometimes I just need a day or two to reply. I always get to my email though.

[@joshstaley7459]

@@EllweinEngines i dont have your email. i do not have face book or any type of social media. I just get on KZbin so if you have posted your email and one of these videos I have missed it

[@EllweinEngines]

@@joshstaley7459 Hi Josh. email is [e-mail]

[@joshstaley7459]

@@EllweinEngines thank you bub

[@johnnyblackking169]

Gm say that the carb intake will give more tq an hp.

[@robertrassier4625]

Please, please and again please drop that "music".

[@EllweinEngines]

I love that music. It is hard to deny the awesome tone of that guitar. ;)

[@daviddavids3468]

ALL THE WIRES, COILS , IT JUST LOOKS LIKE CRAP , I'D TAKE AN OLD SCHOOL SBC, WITH CARB , ALUMINUM INTAKE , ALUMINUM TRICKFLOW HEADS AND CHROME VALVE COVERS ANYDAY !

[@EllweinEngines]

The clean and simple and functional is a big plus.

[@Savineyard3]

Trust me, it won't be looking like that when the engine finally gets installed. (Sometime next year hopefully) I also spent the money on buying a complete wiring harness from HOWELL that looks way better and uses much better quality wire cores than the factory wiring harness. The 93-97 F-Body's LT1/LT4 engine bay and it's wiring looks surprisingly good out of the factory so it's really easy to do wire tucks and rearrangement. The ugliest part of any LT1 powered ride is the air conditioning, AIR system, and the Power Steering. All easy to get rid of or make it look way better with wire loom and/or tucking it away.

[@Savineyard3]

I don't know why, but I don't see many Gen II LT1s with Trickflow heads. If I wasn't pressed for time, I would have remembered to say in the video that the reason why I choose the parts on this engine was to survive road racing duties while still staying street legal. Trickflow and Airflow Research makes great cylinder heads but they have to use bigger therefor heavier valves and a lot more spring pressure at the seats. If you want, I can type out to you my Z28's entire setup and why I choose the certain parts over others but it's going to be a long write up.

[@jongeter227]

@@Savineyard3 run it

[@stevenbelue5496]

​@@Savineyard3I like the look with the coil near plug, it makes a statement, modified with a more elaborate efi system that raises the bar for tuning and power potential

[@joeypozzuto977]

What headers

[@EllweinEngines]

My dyno headers are Clear Image Automotive and they are 1 & 5/8" primary long tube 4 into 1

[@ThomasELeClair]

@@EllweinEngines ,,,Is it possible to make 520 HP with little 1.635 inch primary , long tube headers,,,,I would think a set 1.750 would do the job....>>>>

[@tenorhowlermonkey3454]

He went that far and did not buy heads?

[@EllweinEngines]

He had the LT4 heads ported. they are pretty good heads.

[@Savineyard3]

Down the road I might buy a set of AFR Heads but in all honesty I would only see a gain of maybe 20-25 horsepower without going to a bigger cam and more compression. Rounded off, 530 horses with 490 Torque is gonna cause my Z28 a ton of traction issues even with all the BMR suspension mods on the street with a 6-speed and 4.10 gears on 285 wide tires. So as of right now I really don't want more power.

[@Gotmath8]

very interesting video. Love to learn from experts. I'm not sure how the death metal helps make it better...maybe delete that cuz it sucks.

[@EllweinEngines]

My wife hates it too but I love it. It's rhythmic metal with no death language. Good ol foot stompin music to my ears.

[@Savineyard3]

@@EllweinEngines He uses all flavors of music in all his other videos.

[@shawnpatrick5452]

Waste of time click bait thought I was going to see numbers not just a bunch of dyno pulls atleast show the dyno pull sheets

[@Savineyard3]

We Did. It's in the video.

[@paulf9459]

Thanks for the lack of a summary at the end..

[@EllweinEngines]

You are welcome. I'm a big believer in letting everyone make their own conclusion.

[@Savineyard3]

That's my fault. I was pressed for time. That's why the video came out the way it did. I was going to stay around for another hour or 2 to shoot more video on my combo while using the dyno to break in the ceramic coating on my Stainless Works T304 Headers. If you want, ask away any questions you might have.

[@paulf9459]

@@Savineyard3 I'm curious how the Edelbrock LT1 "Air Gap" manifold would perform. I installed one on my 94 Z28 over 4 years ago along with a BBK 58MM throttle body and Jet hi-flo mass air flow sensor. I port matched both the inlet and outlets openings. I have a cold air induction set up with a K&N filter. At the same time I installed the Torqhead 24X ignition system with a stock tune and a Magnaflow SS catback exhaust with cat delete. The seat of the pants increase was impressive. Everything else on the motor is stock. Your engine is very impressive and I'm sure you'd rather tune with your laptop then ripping apart the carb to change jet's. Lot's of luck with your ride. PS, I'm the original owner.

[@Savineyard3]

@@paulf9459 Well to tell you the truth we didn't even know we were going to do this test cause last year at this time ( While the air temps weren't hot yet ). In the begining of the video, Karl said that we had throttle and ecu issues so I asked him if he still had his 850 carb and intake at the shop just to use to break in my engine cause that was the main reason why I was there in first place. So luckily he said yes and 2 hours later my 383 LT4 was up and running. I have to watch this video over again cause I even said that the carb was running rich so who knows. Maybe if we leaned out the carb last year it might have been even closer than what we got. But that dyno session last year, the only outcome we wanted was to just break in the engine and then worry about doing a compare and contrast video later on. Usually this combo would only make around 480-490 but I truly believe that the Eagle ESP Armor micro polishing that was done on my Forged Crank and Rods are what gave me the power numbers your looking at by just keeping the oil off of the crank. Even with a windage tray and scraper, there's still enough oil that sticks to the crankshaft " even at 6500 rpms " that micro polishing can free up 15-30 horsepower. Eagle says that it's a top secret process that they must protect for business competition but the process they use is called Isotropic superfinishing. I'll post up some links below. What else did I want to mention? Oh your Edelbrock LT1 intake was tested like 10 or 15 years ago when the first batch of intakes were cast and sold to the public and testing revealed that a edelbrock LT1 or in my case their LT4 intakes really don't make more horsepower than a factory ported or port matched intake onto a set of factory heads or aftermarket. But here's what people don't really think about. While on the dyno, any engine has lots of room to breath and release it's temps a lot better then being under a car or trucks hood. Especially a 93-97 Camaro or Firebird. So if your doing a lot of street racing or just having a lot of fun ( And I do mean a lot ) doing back to back full throttle blasts, The Edelbrock Air Gap LT1/LT4 manifolds really helps to delay the heat soaking that will eventually start raising the intake air temps going into the cylinders. So for me, the choice was a no brainer, plus at the time (2017) I couldn't find a factory LT4 Intake Manifold for sale because of how rare they are. The intake that was on the LT4 engine that came out of the 96 Corvette that it was in, the guy either miss placed it or even may have even sold it knowing that it's a rare piece that fits aftermarket LT1 or LT4 Heads from AirFlowResearch very well. Anyway if you listen closely in the video during the part where Karl is testing out the dyno's custom made efi throttle, that older gentleman asked me what car that my engine was going in, then I responded that it's going into my 97 Z28, a stick shift car that I have plans on road racing it. I really wanted to say that in the intro part of the video why I choose the parts that I wanted to use. And that reason was to have a 383 LT4 that can handle being heavily abused on a road coarse track and still be road legal which is why I choose to keep using the lightweight hollow stem intake and sodium filled exhaust valves actuated by Jesel Shaft Rockers, Comp Double valve springs with tool steel retainers, a Billet Aluminum Shark Tooth oil pump from Melling, a gm Melonized oil gear stub, Morel short travel roller lifters, road racing oil pan, aluminum flywheel, and of course the Eagle Esp Armor Crank and Rods, and not to forget the Airgap Intake Manifold to help fight off heat soak along with my 3 core radiator/spal brushless fan setup.

[@Savineyard3]

Here are some links to what Isotropic Superfinishing is if you want to check it out. By the way if you ever need or want to spend big money on a Moser 12 bolt rear or even may want to roll the dice and upgrade a stock F=Body 10 bolt, I would look up USA Gear or U.S. Gear Lightning ring and pinion gears which are Isotropic superfinished. Also I would invest in a Eaton Trutrac diff. which are made using Isotropic super finished internals. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJ_afIOFfL1ojdU kzbin.info/www/bejne/mKi8pqxtmMyGi9E kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2epqZyid72Bnsk kzbin.info/www/bejne/hqm7n6WKi7h7mJI kzbin.info/www/bejne/mIuwnYWkityUl9E U.S.A. or U.S. Gear Lightning Ring and Pinion Gears. kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZnazoJqtp7aBb6M

[@michaelthomas-cq9xv]

Man the primitive Rock music is not helpful.

[@user-kb2bs9hy2v]

You are Correct