RUGBY'S NEXT CIVIL WAR?! | A BRITISH & IRISH LEAGUE??!

Can you imagine the ill feeling if South African and Italian teams were nudged out of the picture in favour of a British & Irish League?! Doesn't bear thinking about, but this story is bubbling away...what are the merits of the suggestion? Who would it benefit? What would the motivations be? Could it REALLY even potentially happen.

[@Cmac7898]

South Africans joining to the URC has arguably made it the best league in Rugby. I’ll stick with our Saffa brothers thank you!

[@Camcolito]

It's quickly becoming an amazing club competition. Three different countries had a winning last three years, and heated rivalries building already with the Saffa clubs. If only they could get their highlights packages together...

[@maaifoediedelarey4335]

@HuwEvans. Nor is it the European game's responsibility to prop up England's rugby.

[@wot4922]

You're so gracious 🙏🇿🇦

[@christoduplessis8177]

It is the best competition in domestic rugby today and honestly after the success in attendance and viewing figures last season the URC is on the up!!! They wanted their Prem so stick with it now.

[@forwardpass2725]

@HuwEvans. You C&P the same comment that no-one is buying

[@ChristopherSephton]

It's so good to see the support from the Irish, Welsh and Scottish fans in the comments. I assure you, we Saffers have loved the switch to the URC and have developed great respect for our opponents. The fact that 3 different teams from 3 different countries have won the comp in the last 3 years shows how competitive the tournament is. I'd be devastated if we had to return to SANZAR!

[@conchronic]

Fans in Ireland are happy with the current set up and feel the saffers have been a great addition

[@AbeHopwood]

​@HuwEvans. A person with a functioning brain

[@AndrewAW-w2l]

Stuff Sanzar and and the RFU

[@tjobrien8436]

Zero chance we in Ireland want to lose the South African teams and fans. Gievup regularly playing the best teams from the top rugby nation in the world??? No bloody way. If rhe premiership teams and their masters hadn't screwed up the format of rhe heineken cup then we'd all be happier again. They absolutely destroyed the best competition ever.

[@readesiun988]

@HuwEvans. My God what a troll you are, nobody cares Welshman, the arrogance of you, propping up South African rugby, 4 times World Champions. Propping up Welsh Rugby is what is actually happening, the English would not give a damn

[@Etain18]

Irish and Saffa fans are in an electric phase of creating rivalries, relationships, and just a whole vibe of joy. Good luck to anyone trying to split them up!

[@stevetynant6666]

Money rules unfortunately 😪

[@andredekock2933]

Jouning with the English will just cost miney and will not improve revenue ​@@stevetynant6666

[@LeMerch]

@@stevetynant6666it does and that’s why the Irish and Saffas won’t want the English clubs 😂

[@johnpurcell7525]

Rather the Welsh Scottish English Great Traditional Rivalries and a lot cheaper travel Away Games

[@peterincork3121]

@@stevetynant6666 Tell that to London Irish, Wasps and Worcester ! 😅

[@Em11112]

“Prem considering merger”. The arrogance of how it’s being portrayed. “Access denied, yours truly, the URC”…great videos Tim

[@somenamethatdoesntmatter]

@@Em11112 the arrogance to consider ones options, including dropping our own league to 8 teams. Disgusting arrogance from the disgusting english.

[@davesmith826]

Indeed. If true, it tells you all you need to know about the individuals involved. Some of the people who run English rugby - both provincial and national - are clowns. This is why the English league is in the state it's in, and why Twickenham has just been 'rebranded'. The New Zealand union did something similar a while back and their game has nosedived. The Aussies and New Zealanders effectively kicked the Boks out of Super Rugby and their provincial game has nosedived. Australia can't even scrum any more - literally. Meanwhile the Irish, Scottish, and Italian clubs have gained considerably from the influx of South African teams into the URC. You can see this in the recent 6N. Italy beat France - but were denied a victory from a refereeing robbery. A Scottish club won the URC last year, something that would have been unheard of only a few years ago. The only sides that have not improved are the Welsh, but they have stalled because of the state of the Welsh game. Sound familiar? It should. The Welsh union is as badly run as the English and elements within both unions want to kick the South Africans out of the URC for personal gain. Who would benefit from this arrangement? Not the Irish or the Italians. Not the Scottish. Not the South Africans. Not really the Welsh. The only potential beneficiary is England, and even that is debatable.

[@markdawson4625]

It’s more simple, the RFU and the old farts have mismanaged English club rugby for years and have looked over their shoulder at how well the URC is doing financially. Their mates at the Torygraph have then dreamt up this misconceived and arrogant article.

[@creekyknee]

Kiss our arses you sasanach fools.

[@Macron87]

This story was made up by South African media, to fuel the national victim mentality

[@gavinberry1796]

As a Saffer, it warms my heart to see the camaraderie between supporters - we down here get shafted so often (super rugby is a good example) that we are not used to seeing true support and friendship - as they say “a friend in need is a friend indeed”

[@patrickmccutcheon9361]

Irish rugby supporters prefer the URC with the Saffa teams and not interested in replacing them with English teams. The English Premiership is a mess and needs sorting out. It is absurd that the English clubs propose a merger with the URC but demand that the Saffa and Italian teams are booted out. Leave us alone.

[@hunha991]

Shafted? South Africa wanted out of Super Rugby and only could win it a few times in the 20+ years they were in the comp

[@charliebannon5489]

Ireland have nothing to gain from this. We're doing just fine with the URC as it is.

[@KewKew-do3kq]

Ireland can make a lot more money like top 14. Global warming will put a end to SA teams in Europe

[@chesterdonnelly1212]

I agree

[@Camcolito]

Exactly.

[@Zakerius]

I feel like the (non financial at least) gains from getting to play the SA teams is invaluable. For entertainment as well as everything else. Irish teams already get to play English teams in the Champions Cup so why do I want to see more of that? 😅

[@davidpells4298]

Um ...so Celtic teams doing just great previous Pro 12 ...? No they were not ..With SA involvement coupled to Irish Excellence and support URC is now a major international comp ..Who TF is propping up who ? Sorry to be abrasive but geez .. SA rugby needs propping up ? What we really need is a helping hand to hold up 4 World Cups ​@HuwEvans.

[@claurettelandsman7880]

Hi Tim. Hope you are safely back home in the UK. Love from South Africa 🇿🇦 ♥️♥️♥️♥️

[@Mojo-IRE]

In fairness the URC have come out with a statement denying all this speculation. The SA sides have proven to be a huge positive for the league. Growth is well ahead of expectations. Some people derided it as a ridiculous gimmick with sides down the end of the world joining the league but they've all been proven wrong. Any Irish rugby fan I've spoken to wants nothing to do with this proposed merger. We're far better off testing ourselves and sharpening our tools against Saffers. It's amazing for our development to tour regularly down there.

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

In terms of just the rugby side of it all. URC is by far the best place right now.

[@darylbehane6651]

And as a SAn we’re happy with the partnership we have with the Irish & their teams. Long may it grow & prosper! 🏉🤝🏾

[@ACRC1977]

It's what's best for rugby

[@davidpells4298]

Top 2 teams in World Rugby...SA and Ireland ...nuff said ...

[@Linda_D]

This is a comment I can definitely get behind. I 100% agree as a South African🇿🇦

[@marymcgarry7985]

As an Irish fan I love the URC with South Africa and Italy. Even with the logistical issues it’s become a fantastic league. I’d be bitterly disappointed if Italian and South African teams were pushed to one side. I say leave it alone it’s not broken…….

[@mattpotter8725]

As an Englishman, with plenty of Irish ancestry (Ulster and Connacht) and who loves watching Ireland play, I totally agree with you. The only thing that makes me think though is that despite the great rugby betting played and the deepening rivalries being formed, and coming from the point of view as someone who wanted Ireland to win the World Cup last year (my grandpa was 104 and for Ireland to do this before he passed world have been amazing), is whether this is actually massively helping South Africa at the expense of Ireland, but that all said no Irish fan is ever going to want to help "fix" English clubs' problems (even though I don't think it really would, but it would be a lifeline), so putting myself in your position I'd want to keep things as they are.

[@Silenttarget]

As a Saffa I have to say that the 2 tests this year between the boks and Ireland, had a more rivalry feel than us against the ABS. Ofcourse us fans going at each other with all the banter does help :) In saying this, the URC is just getting better and better and you can see the countries that are participating in the URC, their national teams are also growing. Just look at Italy.

[@Quilty2]

As an Irish fan, very happy with URC as it is. Delighted with SA being in it. Sounds like Premiership is pissed off with its setup and is looking over the fence at URC with a bit of jealousy.

[@lmarislmarislmaris4271]

The English are failing, and see something (URC) they want so aim to take it.

[@JJfromJ]

@@Quilty2 That sounds like a typical (s)limey agenda!!!

[@JJfromJ]

@@lmarislmarislmaris4271 Yup, destroyed large part of their league and now aiming at invading (colonising?) other successfull ones. English leadership not doing well at World Rugby either.

[@tjobrien8436]

No way here in Ireland that we are jettisoning the saffa teams and our pals in Italy. By all means see if there is some sort of a way of bringing ginger in the English clubs. But not at the expense of our Italian and South African pals.

[@ContendwithChristJ12-1]

Sounds like talks on the street and behind closed doors are that the Irish are happy with us Saffas

[@tonymurphy9795]

@@ContendwithChristJ12-1 We are.

[@tjobrien8436]

@ContendformyFaith 100% we are. Only serves to improve us when coming up against the too nations teams week in and out.

[@ContendwithChristJ12-1]

@tjobrien8436 I agree and I think SA is really starting to warm up with this new rivalry brewing with you guys.Plenty of chat

[@carlosl-f2433]

Thats why I love the Irish, they ain't nobodies puppet.

[@kieranodwyer4108]

The URC is doing just fine as it is and as a proud Munster Rugby fan I would be totally opposed to the IRFU shafting South Africa and Italy for this merger. The Premiership clubs made this problem for themselves so they can sort out their own mess

[@deniswallace-vp9tb]

I think there's a case to be made for letting a Georgian team in and maybe some other nations as well and make a second league with promotion and relegation to help grow the game in Europe

[@peterincork3121]

@@deniswallace-vp9tb Well you can do conferences rather than promotion relegation, but I like that enlargement idea.

[@OscarOSullivan]

As another Munster fan the URC has been fantastic for rugby, URC 2022-2023 was the best season in years for Munster. A fantastic semi final and final for Munster.

[@creekyknee]

Too right. These are the same fools that voted for Brexit. We don't need them.

[@RebelCity_]

I would welcome expanding the league as it is. Add a Georgian team. Maybe a Spanish or Portuguese team. May as well get the Argentine’s involved.

[@petermartin1772]

As an Irish rugby fan I love the URC especially now that the saffers have joined. They play some incredible rugby and it has only helped our teams develop further. Why on earth would our union destroy what is becoming a gem of a league. If the Welsh become competitive again it will be amazing. Champions cup provides all the game time we need against English teams.

[@GSOLID8]

Let the Welsh leave and replace with a Portuguese, Georgian, Spanish and third scot bottom dwellers for a time (barely a difference to now) but sets ground work for expanded 6 nations. The European 9 weeks could be converted to Europe championship a bigger gain to all of rugby

[@petermartin1772]

​Certainly don't agree, sa teams are fantastic. Their supporters are rugby fanatics and there is 59 million of them!! Even when Welsh teams were doing well in pro 12 their support was abysmal and is non existent now. I would love the Welsh to embrace the URC they way us Irish have but don't think it will happen anytime soon. @HuwEvans.

[@gerardfitzpatrick60]

@HuwEvans.guessing you are 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 away you go 👌

[@wot4922]

​@HuwEvans.We have no voting power at this time. Go ahead and do what you must. The name of the game in SA is survival. We survived during isolation and won the 1st Rugby World Cup we partook in so obviously we can go at it alone. We're not beggars but we do enjoy being a part off the URC. We are not being propped up by anyone.✌💚💛🇿🇦

[@Camcolito]

@@wot4922 We're happy to have you. A few English are just bitter that their league is crap, and nobody in interested in their "idea" to waltz in and tell the URC what they should do. A real shocker, lol

[@Camcolito]

As an Irish rugby fan I have zero interest in a "British and Irish league". English clubs can join the URC if they want, on the terms of the URC, as just another country. The URC is doing just fine thanks. And we are happy with the Saffas and Italians. This article strike me as the kind of supremely arrogant crap you'd expect from the Telegraph who thinks England still has colonies.

[@seanofarrell8896]

I find it as an Irish fan as England being jealous of the urc. Happy the way it is.

[@bosvarkd8403]

Bru could not have said it better ... they all broke anyway.. more saffas watch rugby on a Saturday than English..

[@seanofarrell8896]

@bosvarkd8403 I personally feel that with the way the Irish are big surports of itlay and SA, this would be rejected.

[@Camcolito]

@@seanofarrell8896 Screwing over another country for the benefit of the English would not be sellable to anyone in Ireland, safely say never going to happen in the format suggested.

[@seanofarrell8896]

@Camcolito true as well

[@ritchiebirnie6124]

As a Glasgow fan I'd be gutted if Saffers left. They are the reason the URC is so good. Everybody else has had to raise their game

[@nicolasmaligner8753]

It's not true. Everybody was sending B teams to or from SA/Europe.

[@KewKew-do3kq]

Then how did Glasgow win the league?

[@victordastile5204]

​@@nicolasmaligner8753lier...lier....your pants on🔥🔥🔥

[@Camcolito]

Glasgow played amazing and fully deserved the championship this year. How good is it for the league that we have a team from a different nation winning three years in a row?

[@andye5771]

​@@KewKew-do3kq They won because they raised their game. Going to Loftus at altitude against a fabulous team and in front of sixty thousand passionate Bulls supporters and winning was an incredible achievement. It is because of how good the Bulls are that the sense of achievement is so massive. Now the challenge is for other teams to do the same and that drives standards up.

[@ragenaldmoos8798]

I think the expanded URC is currently growing to be one of the best leagues in world rugby. Itvis heart warming to see that rugby fans actually acknowledge the growth that it brought to all the Unions, both North and South of the equator. It created new rivalries between teams like Ireland, Scotland and the Springboks. Long may we enjoy the benefits of forward thinking when most said it would not work.

[@charliebannon5489]

Ireland and South Africa are the top two teams in the world. The URC is on fire with Irish and South African teams. Clubs from Wales, Scotland and Italy and their national teams stand to benefit playing with the best. The URC have a lot to lose by changing things

[@ChristopherSephton]

Don't forget the Scotts mate. They are the reigning URC champs. 3 years, 3 countries, 3 clubs, 3 winners. Definition of a thriving comp...

[@johncahalane7327]

​@@ChristopherSephtonYes as a Munster fan Scottish teams too can't be left out in this conversation, Italy I see a massive improvement in them ,they aren't getting hammered in Ireland or South Africa anymore either Wales have problems for years but they need to stay inside the URC too ...this story is blowing smoke and I'm totally opposed to this

[@muhammad3351]

As a rugby fan I'm grateful that the URC is so competitive. But eish, as a Stormers fan I am pissed that there's only 1 URC trophy in the cabinet

[@Tellemore]

I don’t think the URC will ever trust anything coming out of the Premiership clubs after the way they hijacked the Heineken Cup competition and forced the then-Pro12/14 teams into the Champions Cup - which they have subsequently ruined through incompetence and mismanagement. If the English Clubs want a merger it will only happen on URC terms. The Irish are not likely to dump the Italians or the South Africans and the English no longer have the clout to blackmail the Scots and Welsh. An Anglo-Welsh League might be popular in concept for the Welsh but the financials don’t make it as attractive a prospect as it was in the amateur era.

[@johnpurcell7525]

2 top Teams for how long Remember World Cup when No Hope England Came within a whisker}

[@arofficial2455]

Really cool to see so much Irish support for us Saffa’s staying in. I personally love the league, as a UK based Sharks fan it’s awesome, gives me the chance to support the boys overseas and experience away days at some truly fantastic places. I’d be gutted to get kicked out. Fingers crossed this doesn’t happen, I still need to head over to Ireland for a game!

[@readesiun988]

From a Leinster fan, I do not believe this is ever going to happen, the URC have given their statement and it is quite clear, go F yourself England. There is no way the IRFU could sell this to the Irish, the URC is fantastic with South African involvement and its success speaks for itself.

[@arofficial2455]

@HuwEvans. I agree, it’s not up to us. I’ve read this in near enough every comment section Huw, not sure why you’ve felt the need to write it again as I wasn’t asking for clarification? Personally I don’t really care about the financial aspect of it, however, I hope they will understand there’s more to life than buying something for a quid and selling it for two. As rugby fans we want to see the best matches and the best players competing against each other, fans will happily pay money to see that, weakening the URC doesn’t really seem like a smart decision, weaker competition, poorer matches, less viewers, less money ultimately.

[@ChristopherSephton]

​@HuwEvans.Thanks for the copy and paste, lol. You're either a turkey bot or a lazy keyboard warrior who gets kicks from baiting genuine fans. Either way, kindly FO.

[@spervuurproduksies]

@@arofficial2455 He hasn't read a single word of your reply, you can bank on that!

[@Camcolito]

There is obviously a roughly 100% unanimous opinion in Ireland about this topic, as evidenced by the comments in this thread versus one bitter English troll trying to sow disinformation.

[@rolandhallam26]

Love your work Tim, can't wait to see your Deon Fourie interview 👍👍🙌

[@vinceroos]

Is this happening?

[@rolandhallam26]

@@vinceroos watch Tim's last video he posted called Chasing the Egg. There is a picture of him with Deon at the end of the video in Cape Town together. Absolutely can't wait for that interview, Deon is a freakin legend 👍

[@kevindevane6175]

Any SA URC fans watching this take heart from Tim said about the IRFU and how it does business, we tend to look at the big picture and realise selling out our partners is not good for business or the game.

[@christoduplessis8177]

Hopefully you are correct, and the IRFU does seem to be great administrators of the game.

[@ChristopherSephton]

Saffa here. Really appreciate the Irish fans' support🙏 There's a new "greatest rivalry" brewing!

[@Camcolito]

@@ChristopherSephton The Irish feeling on this is basically unanimous, believe me. There is zero appetite for this nonsense, it's just some shit-stirring an English rag published because they are upset that their own league is crap.

[@fawltyoldboybasil.2178]

@@Camcolito I say, Old Chap! Steady on - What! 😆

[@eyeneffjay]

Yeah IRFU only want to consider it if SA teams included

[@fawltyoldboybasil.2178]

As far as I am concerned (if what Tim says is close to the truth), I would not want the IRFU to support ANY MEASURE that would lead to the expulsion/exclusion of South Africa. No exceptions.

[@paddy91317]

The last time we let the English in they didn't leave for 800 years

[@davidokeeffe3898]

😂😂😂😂

[@bigbird6039]

Are you not aware of the five nations when only England came to Dublin, when the other nations refused to. 1972 I believe.

[@paddy91317]

@@bigbird6039 hey listen I will support England before I support Wales or Scotland for very similar reasons, England stood by Irish rugby during the troubles, where as our supposed Celtic brothers turned there backs on us in our recent world cup bid, My joke was based around Irish history of English empire building

[@phandapanda9644]

😂🤣😂🤣😂....d.e.d

[@ashleybasson5664]

Leaving out SA will be detrimental to such a league, as the NZ and Aussie fans, unions and pundits now acknowledge (after they kicked out SA teams out of Super Rugby).

[@KewKew-do3kq]

No it wont 😂 they are too far away

[@HeeniKeke]

SA pulled 2 teams out of Super Rugby years before they finally all left. SA had always been eyeing up NH due to travel issues, time differences etc. But hey….go ahead as normal and blame NZ for absolutely everything. SA live constantly in a victim mentality….hence the whining even after they win

[@maaifoediedelarey4335]

@@HeeniKeke B.s - NZ had plotted to push out SA out of Super Rugby for years, and finally did so during Covid when they got the chance. You sow the wind, you reap the whirlwind.

[@nawrik123]

​@HeeniKeke disagree...New Zealand made the decision to exclude South African teams during the pandemic without consulting SARU.

[@wot4922]

​@@HeeniKekeOMG. The last thing we have is a victim mentality. We are survivors. Always have been....Always will be. We make a plan. Please don't try to poison the respect the Boks and ABs have for each other. Not our fault you lost against us.🇿🇦

[@Shendersonsports3003]

As a Scottish Rugby fan, the last thing I want is a British & Irish league. The URC works because it spent 20+ years untying the kinks and knots that were holding the league back. If the top tier English clubs got involved, then you can guarantee that they'd completely ruin the balance of the league. (yes, I'm aware that the welsh clubs are a mess, that's their own problem)

[@Shendersonsports3003]

@HuwEvans. The Welsh clubs are more than welcome to join the English leagues. They’re the only ones I see genuinely benefitting from this proposal

[@Camcolito]

@HuwEvans. It's make sense for the English clubs because they are broke.

[@kevinbermingham6186]

​@HuwEvans.Just not clear enough to consider Italian rugby

[@kevinbermingham6186]

@HuwEvans. Now in your arrogance your deciding what the french league should do aswell. The Welsh union missed a trick not giving you a job.

[@liamascorcaigh2601]

Is @HuwEvans an AI bot?

[@JackKinross]

Yeeeeeesssss!!! Pleeeeeaaaasssse!!! Then SA teams can come back to Super, we need them please!! Lol. Not going to happen I know, just a dreaming Kiwi. Excellent video Tim, very interesting thinking on the issue.

[@mrm1884]

Nah SA has enough player production and participation starting from school level. They can easily create their own rugby competition. This shouldn't bother them. They can easily create 12-16 teams with purely only SAn players. They only have to find a way to make it as competitive as it can get. And by 2031 RWC, it would be a superpower. The reason I'm saying this is because you can see it in the national team, no foreign born players as compared to all the teams

[@wiskers69]

Fantastic analysis Tim, as always. Thanks so much. I'll be livid if the boks get shafted. I hope my union, the IRFU, does the right thing.

[@okkertgreyvenstein5765]

As a bulls fan i was excited when it was announced that we have joined the URC, and i watch every bulls game and also the other games too because i just love this league, and i dont want RFU to kick us out. I remember the first game away to Leinster we lost 31-8 then came the semi final at RDS and we clinched that game going to the final. This is the best comp. I have been hearing ALL Black legends saying that super rugby isnt the same that sa teams left, so yes we do at value to the game. dont change a working plan.

[@okkertgreyvenstein5765]

And the bulls is the only sa team that have beaten a full strength leinster team twice, so it speaks volumes.

[@creekyknee]

@@okkertgreyvenstein5765 Leinster is the best club Rugby team in the World.

[@ImpantGRX]

To me this sounds like English tabloid media desperately looking to save their league and the clubs in it

[@BaneofBalor]

​@HuwEvans. Stop copy pasting this response on every comment that disagrees with your opinion. The fact is that the URC is doing better with SA than it was before. That is undeniable. A British and Irish league might make sense, but why would the URC, and the Irish teams in particular, take that risk when they're doing just fine as is.

[@BaneofBalor]

@HuwEvans. Thatsa big if. Logistically, it absolutely makes sense, I agree. But financially, nobody can know whether it'd be a good or bad thing. The fact of the matter is that the prem dug the hole they're in. It might not make sense for the celtic clubs to risk them making more bad decisions in a combined league.

[@spervuurproduksies]

@@BaneofBalor Do not reply to the dork. He shows his disdain by serving you just another copy & paste.

[@Camcolito]

@@spervuurproduksies Why can't KZbin auto-ban copy/paste commenters? They seem to be very censorship happy on actual posts, but I often see people who can spam the same comment over and over.

[@spervuurproduksies]

@@Camcolito As you said. On this video alone, I have already had about three of my comments disappearing. And I am very careful not to use the "naughty" words that YT frowns upon. It seems that mindless spamming is totally ok with YT, however.

[@davidpells4298]

Number 1 ranked team .South Africa ..Nr 2 ranked team..Ireland ..and its debateable which is the better side ...No wonder others want part of the action 😅

[@DM-rp9ik]

And we'd nearly have all the trophies in the world except for those Stade Toulouse lads nicking the CC and England denying us the Triple crown

[@RhydderchApRheged-rh7sj]

I’m a Wasps fan and if this goes through then I’m done with watching club rugby. When my club went under I was sickened to see the total lack of solidarity amongst English fans and in particular other clubs, the premiership and the RFU. Everybody claimed to be sad, but nobody actually did anything to help the club recover. The MOST we got was Coventry offering free tickets to Wasps season tickets holders. Seriously. That’s the extent of the support we got. From what Wasps have said, the RFU were beyond unhelpful and vague while Wasps were trying to satisfy Championship requirements. Now, they’re talking about a premiership URC merger (with presumably, no promotion or relegation) meaning that Wasps will never return. I believe 2/3rds of Wasps fans don’t watch rugby anymore. Everywhere we look we are shut out. It feels as though everybody has decided that I’m not allowed to be a rugby fan anymore, that we’re not wanted or part of the community. You’re absolutely right in your criticism of short term solutions, but this idea is the very definition of it. Cutting to 10 teams was a lazy effort to fix a problem that could’ve been avoided anyway. We NEED the Champions Cup. NEED it. Lose that, change every league structure on Earth, and what goes next? The six nations? The rugby championship? What’s even the point anymore? World Rugby needs a total reform. It needs more control over unions, and the unions need more control over the clubs, and ALL of it needs more fan ownership. Fans need to be able to step in and say “NO.”

[@Camcolito]

Even being from Ireland I was sad to see Wasps go bust. For me they are an iconic team.

[@AD-zcvnt]

Same here as an Irish fan. Well said. The fan is & should be king!

[@johankotze1622]

No chance WR ( Which is run by the NH) will get more control over other unions, you shaft RSA every chance you get and it still does not give you a WC.Jog on lad the game is better than ever in RSA and dying in ENG.

[@vivb5180]

@@johankotze1622 I feel embarrassed to see that you are a South African who supports the Boks. I agree that WR is rotten and should not have any further control over rugby unions, but there's a decent and gracious way to say it. Humility is obviously not in your vocabulary. And how strong do you think our rugby will be when we play only against ourselves and the Super 14 teams who are currently so strong... NOT? One of the many reasons for our rise is because we're participating with more varied teams up north. Nobody likes an arrogant, smug 'fan'. Sies! To folks in the NH, please excuse comments that do not represent the thoughts of the majority of SA rugby fans and the arrogant manner in which they are worded.

[@Camerooonify]

I'm with you. I've just stopped watching club rugby and it's sad. But I just can't bring myself to support anyone else. And seeing the carcass of our talent picked apart and played in all different teams is just painful to watch. RFU are just stupid. How can you let 3 clubs worth of fans just vanish at the same time as giving up nearly 30% of revenue.

[@daeganmartin2527]

Tim you need to see the sharks Vs bulls semi final for the Currie cup, absolutely crazy game.

[@seamus9750]

Lion's v Cheetahs wasn't too bad either....GO Lion's 😅

[@bhejanenaturetraining1018]

The Rugby God's are being to generous 😇

[@johntaplin3126]

Agreed. The Sharks were true grid. But some terrible decision making by the Bulls - 15 v12 for much of the last 15 minutes of the game. So many wasted chances. Going to be absolutely torn for the final between the Lions and Sharks, both close in my DNA.

​@@johntaplin3126Bulls should have put the Sharks away. They threw it all away. Happy Sharky fan though.

[@wot4922]

Hope the Sharks have their heads in the game this year. Would love to see them dominate in the URC 🦈

[@fleshen]

An English paper assuming the English clubs can dictate what they want to happen will happen is such a typical English press thing!

[@seamus9750]

1232 views after 17 minutes...not too shabby Tim 😊

[@Epicsportfix]

As a saffa I thank you gguys Ireland for the support

[@gezzarandom]

Regarding South Africa, travelling has always been an issue no matter what league their clubs play in. If you look at the travel times, it’s actually takes longer to travel to New Zealand and Australia from South Africa than it does to Europe. The Welsh clubs seem to think leaving the URC and joining the Premiership will solve their problems but the reality is their problems will just follow them there. I really hope the Champions Cup stays, it’s always fascinating to see the clubs from different leagues competing against each other, and getting stronger as a result. But I agree with you it needs to go back to its old system.

[@101MIGHTYJOE]

As a munster and irish fan there is no way the irish provinces would join a league with the english teams as we saw their true colours when the english and french clubs decided to destroy the Heineken cup for short term financial gain. The english club owners cannot be trusted as they are too short sighted and will make bad financial decisions that will scupper their future. Iv had great memories of travelling to bath, Leicester, quins, etc the fans are great craic and very welcoming and getting to play them in europe each year is enough. If any teams from the urc are going to join an english league it would have to be the welsh as their fans have no interest in the urcand the commute would be very short

[@basildavidson4597]

Well done Tim, you have certainly stirred up an interesting debate. There are a lot of problems in world rugby that need to be addressed and discussed openly if we are going to reach solutions that are beneficial to all of us.

[@Linda_D]

Hi Tim, thank you for picking this apart so that I could understand. Glad to see you home after your visit to your 2nd home🇿🇦😁 I think it would be unfortunate to cut out our SA teams. I have personally seen some really low down comments directed at our rugby teams the last few days. As a SA rugby fan, we had one of the most amazing tournaments, the Super 12. That tournament was exciting, the best of the best got to hone their skills and be better players and stronger teams for it. Logistics and management politics ended that. My question is why wouldn’t you want to play your best against other teams best, it makes them stronger collectively and it exciting to watch? I think as a SA fan I am personally tired and fed up with the constant mud sling our way. My own individual opinion. Anyway great to see you and always worth listening to one of the few genuine people on here. Love from SA🇿🇦❤️

[@tonymurphy9795]

I agree with you 100% and would be outraged if SA were cut out. The over-riding issue for SA teams is the logistics both in terms of costs and human impact. I just hope that money doesn't end up as the decider once again.

[@Linda_D]

@@tonymurphy9795 logistics and money could be a factor but this time the story is coming from the English teams. Seem like they was SA out. It’s honestly just tiresome now. I understand that most rugby fans engage in some banter but what our team and fans have had thrown at us has become beyond banter. Are some fans from SA just as bad, yes! You get people like that everywhere. Unfortunately it’s pundits, fans and more and I really am just tired. I absolutely love this amazing game and admire players and teams from all over the world and have found a home here with Tim and a few others on YT. Thank goodness😊

[@Linda_D]

I agree with you 100% the arrogant fans are found world wide and nothing new. Unfortunately after we won the 2019 RWC, us as fans were not given a moment to just post about how we felt about our boys and their incredible achievement. It hasn’t stopped so we are over 8 years in with this crap. Luckily I found Tim at the beginning of the last RWC. Tim is amazing and his passion for this incredible game that we all love so much is refreshing. I love his unbiased breakdowns and I love that he has taken the time to find out why We know what they don’t. This statement is neither arrogant nor boastful and carries huge meaning for us South Africans. I’m now only subbed to similar channels and doing my best to ignore others.

[@oliverkirsten9208]

Joining the URC has been absolutely fantastic for South African rugby and the thought of our teams and the Italian clubs being possibly cast aside for the financial gain of a new league does not bear thinking about. It would go against all the principles that we like to attribute to rugby and what draws us to the game, like kinship, brotherhood, honour, camaraderie. It would just break my heart.

[@truecalling61]

Kevin Potts of the IIRFU has said that they won’t consider any new competition that doesn’t include ALL. current partners in the URC. The premiership know they need the Irish teams and fans to make more money. South Africa won’t be ditched by Ireland..

[@CrazyMonkey679]

IRFU won’t let that happen

[@chrismouton1985]

I'll be bloody livid if they do this. The URC is extremely popular. Just look at the numbers. There's a reason for that.

[@Temp-z4u]

Beaut to see support from Ireland ... SA fans take note .. rivalry must ALWAYS be on the respect side ... Irish have proved more than worthy opponents and. . dare i say it .. improved our standards !!

[@fohunter12345]

I think the Curry Cup in South Africa would get resurrected and become our homegrown league. Theres enough talent in SA to fill our own league anyway. Maybe its for the best. I'd miss the Irish and Scottish and Welsh rivalries that are developing but if we're not wanted then why stick around?

[@tonymolloy6165]

@@fohunter12345 Who said ye're not wanted. Going by the comments here I definitely don't see that. The IRFU would have a mutiny on their hands if they decided to ditch the SA clubs and the Italian ones for the English. There's an old irish saying "the english never learn and the irish never forget"

[@paddyharte1888]

As an Irishman I'd much rather play the Saffa clubs than the English,the URC is getting stronger each season,no need to mess with a winning formula

[@MaggieGraham-zi1lt]

Oh Tim...we miss you...watched all your SA videos. So glad my favorite guys "Keo & Zels" hosted you. Love you guys...from a rugby fan since "high school days back in the 70's.👀

[@brianodriscoll2725]

The whole appeal of the European champions cup is that you play teams you don’t regularly play like Toulouse , Exeter , sarries , bath , La Rochelle etc. As a fan of a urc team, I think It would remove the fun of the European cup.

[@MarkT.BrownMD]

One way to make it work would be to have it modelled on French League with divisions. That could accommodate best teams from the countries in a Premier League , but not sure the English would be happy if for example Gloucester was in a first division with Cheetahs, Lions, Connaught and Benetton . As a Stormers fan I’m loving the URC . Agree with you Tim regarding Champions Cup is on its way out .

[@bernieob9577]

As an Irish fan, I am happy with the URC as it is .leaving SA out would terrible.

[@jackyboiogc]

As an English supporter I don't really want a B&I league but I'd love a route into the URC. I'm sure it won't ever happen but what I think could work: 2 divisions of 13, URC Premiership and URC 2. URC Prem = top 8 of current URC, top 4 of premiership, 9th in URC vs 5th in Prem for last place. The rest move into URC 2. There will be some teams that draw the short straw and go into URC 2 but it adds importance to finishing position in the final season of the current format. Get proper relegation/promotion back. Bottom 2 go down, top 2 come up. 11th (URC Prem) vs 3rd (URC 2) in a playoff for who takes place in URC Prem. Playoffs maybe reduce from 8 to 6. Financially I'd hope there would be enough TV money to go round and you get good, contested matchups, less games than current URC but more than current Prem. I'd suggest a midseason cup across both divisions during six nations, probably just a chance to give youngsters a go. I think eventually it would need options for teams to be promoted to URC 2 (from championship etc)

[@brettfleiner4906]

The English media is one of the most toxic parts of Rugby Union and certainly contributes to the lack of growth of the game. The Premiership lost some clubs due to financial mismanagement and now want to dip their fingers into a pie (the URC) that is actually working. I think most would welcome the Premiership teams into the URC, as long as it comes without any detriment to the current URC teams.

[@KewKew-do3kq]

Sa is too far away they need to go for global warming

[@wot4922]

​@@KewKew-do3kqhuh.

[@brettfleiner4906]

@HuwEvans. Yup, you are.

[@brettfleiner4906]

@@KewKew-do3kq Was that an attempt at humor?

[@murrad23]

THIS

[@Fighting_Irish184]

In the professional era, Ireland has followed the Southern Hemisphere model. Our role models have been New Zealand and South Africa. Our URC teams feed into the national team. Now, playing against South African teams and experiencing the climate, culture and style of rugby is so suitable for fans and players alike. I would choose SA and Italian clubs over English teams any day. This is just old school tie English arrogant Torygraph drivel. You best ignore it.

[@BruceMacgregorCampbell]

Copied statement from the BKT URC webpage: "Contrary to media reports the BKT United Rugby Championship is not engaged in discussions regarding a British & Irish league. Since the introduction of the four South African teams in 2021, the league has enjoyed a sustained period of outstanding success achieving record audiences, attendances, social media growth and new levels of competitiveness. This is due in great part to the efforts of all 16 teams across Ireland, Italy, Scotland, South Africa and Wales which has elevated the league to new heights. The BKT United Rugby Championship is committed to continuing this pace of growth ahead of the new season and far into the future".

[@Clarkgravel]

With the greatest respect Tim, and I‘m a big fan of the channel, it only gives you guys something to talk about. This‘ll go the same way as the football European Super League.

[@patrickchilds2987]

Good point

[@cathalkiernanhughes8093]

I do think that something thay has really really helped the urc in Ireland anyway is that all of the matches involving irish teams are free to air.

[@alanrussell7337]

You are right regarding the European Cup, it's not what it was. It only gets interesting at the knockout stage. It was always the pinnacle for Leinster but to be honest I really want us to win the URC now. I cannot see the IRFU having a working relationship with the English Club owners so I really hope this goes nowhere. I love playing the SA teams and just wish Leinster would send our first team to the Republic more often.

[@alecltheunissen9088]

As a Bulls fan living in the UK it give me an opportunity to watch them in Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Please leave the URC as it is. It is helping all 5 nations participating, English Premiership is in a mess and we are not going to bow down to the English at all. May the URC go from strength to strength.

[@taintabird23]

I'm Irish, and I share your sentiments.

[@davidchambers331]

If this abomination went through as is I would be disgusted.The Saffas inclusion have been nothing but beneficial to us all. The Italians are improving year on year and the Scot’s have been a joy to watch. I will hate it when the Stomers eventually beat my beautiful Munster. But I will be enraged if they are never given the chance because of a quick cash grab.

[@paulmalan6932]

As a South African, this would be devastating. The URC is by far the best champions in the world. Look what is happening with Australian and New Zeland rugby. A great partnership was broken, and rugby down under is in decline. The URC is an amazing breeding ground for world rugby!

[@TomKennedy-t3l]

To be honest, I still remember how the English clubs screwed up the old Heineken Cup for their own financial benefit. They are completely untrustworthy. Happy with the URC in its current format.

[@Wolf-hh4rv]

Thanks to the Irish it looks like we not gonna get booted again. Thank you Ireland 🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️

[@MattConnolly-wi8oh]

Not a hope and zero interest from an Leinster supporter. URC is starting to really take off. The arrogance of English rugby or whomever wrote the piece to think we'd be lucky to have the English clubs who are drowning due to yrs of poor management and debt. Pointless discussion.

[@FR-je9bw]

What about the environment?

[@KewKew-do3kq]

Global warming you cannot fly around the world for a game

[@LFire12]

Absolutely!!

[@eamonlyons8069]

​@HuwEvans.What money? The RFU are in debt, they are making cuts and have sold out their naming rights. The RFU would have to accept a zero power arrangement in perpetuity for the URC teams to negotiate. We have all the negotiating power.

[@Camcolito]

@@eamonlyons8069 He thinks it's the 19th century and the English are still stealing wealth from the colonies.

[@rynojacobs3493]

The Irish and South africans are currently 1 & 2 in the world. A big part of that is due to the fierce competition in the URC. Give it another year or two and every club in Europe will want a piece of the action. To be the best, you have to beat the best

[@ChristopherSephton]

​@HuwEvans. Do the French want to win anything global?

[@karatekid-nq6ct]

​@HuwEvans.Lul you comment everywhere with this smugness, I bet the team you support haven't won a world cup in decades or ever. Have fun telling yourself you're better in the mirror. Ireland and SA will help make the URC the dominant league in the world. Nobody has as much international registered players as SA so it's gonna keep the league exciting and growing.

[@fohunter12345]

Agree 100%. Steel sharpens steel.

[@creekyknee]

The URC is the best Club Rugby Championship in the World.

[@Samizouza]

Almost like having the Europe Super Cup (for the likes of 🇬🇪🇵🇹🇪🇸🇷🇴 playing in the REC) joining in via Champions Cup but very interesting idea though.

[@corcaigh]

It's in the Telegraph so we know it's not true. The URC with SA and Italy is brilliant so why would we change . As a Munster fan, happy to have English clubs join the URC but not the other way around as normally you jump off a sinking ship and not on to it.

[@Camcolito]

"It's in the Telegraph so we know it's not true" Lol, so on point. It's Daily Mail level.

[@vivb5180]

Wonderful sense of humour... 'normally you jump off a sinking ship and not on to it' !!! Pure gold!! 🤣👌

[@SpunkRod]

Ireland and SA both share a notoriously negative sentiment towards english overlords. The thing that unites us is our fight against the english, cant see true blood irish supporting this arrogant offer from the english😂

[@Camcolito]

Actually that was so funny, all the vitriol between the SA and Ireland fans, and as soon as someone mentions England wanting to butt in suddenly it's blood brother time, lol.

[@tjobrien8436]

You're spot on there. No way us irish want to lose our springbok pals. 🇮🇪 🏉 🇿🇦

[@winterishere9828]

The RFU supported Ireland to host World Cup 2019 when the SRU and WRU did not. Also remember 1973. I take no pleasure in the English game's current problems. If we can help out then we should but it definitely should not be to the detriment of the South Africans or the Italians.

[@Camcolito]

@@winterishere9828 Of course, they can apply to join the URC if they want. But expecting to walk in and start rearranging the competition to suit themselves is so stereotypical.

[@SpunkRod]

​@@Camcolitojust have a little trip down memory lane in the manner in which the english colonised Ireland and South Africa, the trauma is written in our DNA. The enemy of my enemy is my friend...

[@Gilescowdemdem]

The thing that struck me is the arrogance of the English clubs to be like "Yeh we'll take some of you but not the Italians and south Africans" when you can't deny the success the URC has had since the SA teams got involved. The quality has skyrocketed, viewership and attendance has broken records, what possible incentive would Ireland, Scotland and Wales have to leave that.

[@thelbh]

They owe CVC hundreds of millions of pounds. How’s that for motivation? The largest shareholder in the URC, Premiership Rugby and Six Nations is CVC Capital. Let that sink in

[@daithipol]

The Welsh think it's a great idea. But I do not trust the English clubs. They single handedly bollixed the H Cup

[@PlayerOne-1UP]

I would argue that South Africa and Ireland playing in the same club competition made both international sides better. South Africa learned how Northern hemisphere teams play and how to counter it, and Ireland got used to the physical playing style of the Southern hemisphere. Removing South Africa from the league will see a decline in both nation's international Rugby performance. South Africa would basically just have themselves to play against and Ireland would go back to just playing Northern hemisphere sides. The URC bringing the 2 hemispheres together in one competition, created 2 super international teams that is on a path of dominating world Rugby. Teams like the All Blacks and England is starting to realise this. The English is actually trying to put a stop to it and the ABs are strarting to regret kicking SA out of Super Rugby.

[@frankmarshall7387]

Thanks

[@daviddempster8717]

Storm in a tea cup Tim 🇿🇦. All about the money. That said, the demise of any comps / clubs by extension is not good for our sport.

[@JJ82IOE]

As an Irishman, I think short-term we will probably lose a lot, but I'm all for helping you out. Just a shame we're not playing the fxcking safas more often.

[@johncahalane7327]

Your average Irish Rugby fan Tim wants, zero,nothing to do with The Telegraph story, The Premiership is a busted flush ,the URC with South Africa and Italy is our only way, The English Premiership has three bankrupt teams, Worcester, London Irish and Wasps are gone, we don't want the same to happen to Connacht or Ulster, and Lions and Sharks ...URC is fine just how it is I want South Africa, Scotland, Wales, Italy and Ireland. South African teams is why the URC is in success and the rivalry between the Irish, Scottish and South African ,but Wales is different situation. The Irish and Saffas are one and two in the world the URC is where its at ...

[@lungajacobs6278]

Thanks Always Tim.... This is a tough situation and let's hope the powers that be do what's best for Rugby🙏👍👌

[@gregoryshields2157]

At this rate I'd just like Tim running all the leagues haha

[@driving_all_over]

From an Glos perspective it’ll more likely be them and the Welsh sides being together (I believe they’re planning this for the women’s game too) due to the cross border rivalries although I doubt that would happen due to the likes of Sarries, Quins, Bath, Wasps and Tigers totally destroying the English game by their greed and corruption (those 5 were the reason why Irish, Worcester and Jersey went out of business) If that did happen then the URC could easily expand to 18 clubs with 3 conferences of 6 by adding Cheetahs and another SA team along with 4 European teams. The conferences could be SA conf, a Celtic conf with the Irish and Scottish sides together and a European conf. That creates 22 regular rounds but it’s just what you’d do with the playoffs then

[@AntonAlberts-k6d]

Hey Tim was great having you in the Republic See you soon

[@Sharkman1963]

Was fun hearing a snippet of your commentary at time 22:05 in Episode 1 of Chasing the Sun 2!

[@johnmurray2995]

Irish rugby has a very well-developed pyramid organization in which the provinces are wholly-owned subsidiaries of the IRFU. It has worked very well. The only issue for Ireland in the professional era is getting the provinces enough quality games in a domestic competition. The inclusion of the SA teams definitively solves that issue plus the Scots and Italians have got their acts together. Why on earth would the IRFU be the slightest bit interested in this proposal? I could see some interest from the Welsh, as they love Anglo-Welsh rivalry in matches, but that's it at most.

[@mthunziphakathi4215]

Currie Cup semifinal between Bulls snd Sharks was bonkers.

[@seanofarrell8896]

I'll rather see the Irish teams playing SA than England. The irfu said if all countries were involved, they would be interested. So the Irish surport itlay and SA and Welsh surport itlay and Scotland surport itlay. Plus, urc denied this

[@somenamethatdoesntmatter]

So charitable.

[@edwardharris2388]

My honest opinion is that nobody with power and authority in the UK is capable of making good, well-reasoned, long-term decisions. That's why we see the premiership going down the shitter, it's also why every other aspect of living and working in this country has become 100x worse in the last 10 years. I WISH that the RFU could have an "oh shit" moment like the IRFU did, and come up with a plan to actually improve things long term but I actually don't think it's possible.

[@Wolf-hh4rv]

The English union like World Rugby just a bunch of fat old men with no interest in thinking outside the box.

[@barrygormley]

The reason the champions cup is in decline isn't because epcr is tinkering. It's the fact that they exist at all. The competition you remember as the greatest club rugby comp in the world was destroyed by greed and hubris.

[@eamonlyons8069]

And exclusive behaviour. It's becoming a superleague in Europe but only for the Anglo French who crammed as many teams as they could into Europe. Top 4 from each league is ideal, then two from Georgia and Portugal and two from Spain and Romania to bring it to 20. 1 from Germany, Netherlands, and the previous years cup winners are guaranteed a spot as well. If they are qualified then give it to that (winners) league.

[@Camcolito]

@@eamonlyons8069 Yeah there are too many teams and too many dead rubber games. The later stages of the Champions Cup always has the highest level rugby however, up there with test match quality teams and beyond in some cases. Like Toulouse I would argue are better than France.

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

Premiership is dying for something. But the other unions aren’t dumb enough to drop the safas. Also, why would the Irish clubs join when they’re in the better situation? English Union acts like the premiership is something special. That’s no longer the case.

[@GBH001]

As always the answer is money

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

@@GBH001 for sure. But the premiership isn’t exactly flush with cash. Why go there, when the URC is getting bigger (monetarily) year over year.

[@somenamethatdoesntmatter]

Maybe the urc could add the mlr, it will be technically bigger. 😂 wonky ass league, i would rather we join the prod2 than the fucking mushroom cup.

[@frontierlandfrank5314]

@@somenamethatdoesntmatter idk if you’re American or not. But the MLR is not even close to the level of URC. Zebra would go undefeated against every mlr team. IMO 😂

[@RickySchenk-q9b]

Major League Rugby needs to join South Africa and Argentina in an expanded version, you could include various teams! South Africans want this as does Argentina and we’ve been calling for it for decades now… South Africa has many teams seeking games like the Cheetahs, Kings and Pumas. Argentina just beat NZ and Aus and would also love to grow their franchises and club scene, I don’t know why Americans are sleeping on it as Canada would be a viable fit with at least 2 teams

[@barrygormley]

The biggest surprise for me out of all these articles is how much more the URC TV deal is than the premiership. Quite the turn around from a few years ago.

[@boardingbear526]

100%. And why is that? Ask Tim about his viewership stats and one will get a sense of the value of SA TV eyeballs. URC would be insane to tie up.

[@Camcolito]

@@boardingbear526 I suspect it's just The Telegraph talking utter shite as per usual.

[@somenamethatdoesntmatter]

Its almost like the combined might of 5 countries is just about worth more than 1.

[@x-latetv-x6816]

Its the south african teams that make the urc, them joining was the best thing ever

[@laoch5658]

not true at all, we enjoyed it way before you joined..would rather you left

[@x-latetv-x6816]

@@laoch5658 im a paddy, the south african teams make it way better

[@jamestaylor4471]

Pro 12 and 14 was a joke

[@KewKew-do3kq]

Not they didnt 😂😂😂

[@x-latetv-x6816]

@@KewKew-do3kq not they did😁

[@thembamadi]

Great video Tim. Its been an eye opening one , that's for sure. The SA teams should be very concerned. But I believe that the rest of the URC teams will themselves begin to take stock of the SA and Italy involvement and particularly the SA sides. The level and quality of rugby played has grown. The teams are stronger and the learning of quality squad depth has come through to all the URC teams, making them more competitive overall in the Champions Cup. The ability to develop own jurisdictional talent and have these potential future international players from their squads engage with SA teams, will always be the greatest side and long term benefit of the URC that includes South Africa. The Irish, Italian, Scottish and Welsh national teams will all be so much stronger come RWC 2027 because of the regular SA involvement. Because of that, I think sense will prevail and this issue (being pushed heavily by the British media) will finally be laid to perpetual rest. The Premiership may seek inclusion of their 6 top teams plus the 4 Irish teams plus the 4 SA Teams in a new league. Cutting Italy, Scotland and Wales in the process. I fear that may be the real outcome that they want to solve long term finance as well as upgrade of the quality of play.

[@corriedebeer799]

I think a better solution would be to let the Welsh go to a league with the English and have the URC add a Portuguese, Spanish, and a Goergian side to the URC. That would be good for World Rugby as well. They actually had the Catalan Dragons playing actual league games at the Camp Nou. Can you imagine a Spanish rugby team playing there?

[@patrickchilds2987]

I agree , I think it's far more likely than Engish clubs in URC

[@Hiltok]

When Super Rugby had South Africa and Argentina, teams faced flight times of 15-20 hours to get between Sydney/Auckland and Johannesburg/Buenos Aires, plus connecting flights if you were to/from outside the capitals. This is not only longer than the SA/Europe flight times but also east/west across time zones which makes 'high performance' on the end of the trip a tricky prospect. The demise of Super Rugby shouldn't have been a surprise. The surprise is that it ever worked for as long as it did.

[@Trumpanomics1]

Poms are just pissed off that the URC is doing exceptionally well WITHOUT the POMS now they want in. I say piss off, join the URC with their terms or back off.

[@johncahalane7327]

There's also one more thing flying under the radar is the improvement in Italy and Scotland both at international level too Beniton had a really successful season last year which trickled into the six nations remember the only time Italian teams and players can test themselves against Saffas is in the URC ... English Rugby has seen an exit of coaches from England to Ireland and South Africa in particular and to France too survival is the game inside the English RFU and yes Borthwick has issues inside the camp too no one wants to stay, could this be the kite flying reason for this story.

[@dennism5731]

As a Scot the thought of joining a league with Premiership clubs is a nightmare. The URC has developed into the best league in the NH, if not the world. The addition of the SA clubs has brought an extra dimension and interest to the whole thing. Can see a case for the Welsh regions to join up with the Premiership, as they do in football, but not the Scot’s, Irish and Italians, who are all more than happy with the current format.

[@dennism5731]

@leeofdoom4452 bringing four quality teams into the league has brought another level of interest , style of play , players experience , rivalries, and yes, in limited circumstances, opportunities for travelling supporters both to and from SA. As the European teams in the league go to SA for two games in a row it provides an ideal holiday opportunity ( one which my son and I are planning for next season ) , and it is surprising how many SA supporters work in the UK and take advantage of watching their teams when they come over here.

[@dennism5731]

@leeofdoom4452 why use international rugby examples in a club conversation?

[@sionhughes9044]

Are you on drugs?

[@LeMerch]

Not a snowballs hope in hell do I want to lose the Saffas and Italians.. what the feck is this even about!? Saffas have added a dimension of incredible depth to the richness of URC. The fans, the new rivalries, the teams at the top.. just all of it. Saffas have added something that English clubs just can’t. Sorry England. Gonna have to go with sticking with our Saffas brothers on this one. Not cuz I’m Irish, just cuz Saffas are that good. Altho I wouldn’t be against English clubs joining the URC under the same system and name.

[@creekyknee]

English losers.

[@joemartin4751]

The best option of them all frankly would be an Anglo Welsh league. If we’re being honest, the Welsh are making up the numbers in the URC, and more importantly the Welsh fans don’t turn up in viable numbers to the games. The heritage of Anglo Welsh fixtures would I think re engage the Welsh public (as was seen by the Cardiff - Bath game a few years ago). The Premiership of course would welcome them. And who knows, perhaps the Welsh leaving the URC would open the door to a Georgian or Portuguese club joining instead. Everyone’s a winner!

[@atlegangmonamodi8867]

at the moment, anything is possible and as a saffa i hope SA Rugby is ready. We surely don't wanna leave the URC and we also don't wanna return to Super Rugby either. But if it happens that we lose this one - we'll take our views and clubs and focus on the Currie Cup and try to strike a sustainable deal with other tier 1 and/or tier 2 nations.

[@spervuurproduksies]

@HuwEvans. It isn't. It is a fool's paradise. For a "businessman", your financial acumen is quite dire.

[@Camcolito]

@@spervuurproduksies He's the financial manager of his bedroom at his Mum's.

[@spervuurproduksies]

@@Camcolito 😄 Spot on!

[@shawndaniels-lr8mx]

@@Camcolito😂😂😂

[@rosscooper7778]

As a Leinster fan, no thanks no interest in a British and Irish league . The URC is great, the only thing wrong with the champions cup is there are too many spots for the English teams.

[@kevindevane6175]

I'm going to stop you right there. As it stands the Irish clubs are equal shareholders of an extremely competitive league growing year on year, why in the name of all that is holy would we leave just to play second fiddle to the English clubs?????

[@spervuurproduksies]

Because of /cough/ history. You know?

[@kevinspencer3672]

English and French clubs ruined the Heineken cup. It was brilliant

[@kevindevane6175]

Just to let you know Gang this story is getting zero traction in Ireland, I think the IRFU were watching for the reactions online and got a very clear message.

[@truecalling61]

Kevin Potts of the IRFU said A YEAR AGO that any new competition would have to include our current partners. The IRFU didn’t need fans too help them see this is the right thing to do.

[@jan-gertnel4556]

Tim you are always welcome in South Africa!

[@dam0ryan]

Mark McCafferty caused all of this. He is the one responsible for the decline for the English Premiership and the old Heineken cup. And let's face it, we all want the Heineken cup back.

[@davidpells4298]

Cheers Tim ..glad you enjoyed your stay in my confused country 😅...It's quite a jol ....But aside ..Another rather famous South African...goes by the name of Elon Musk recently commented on Boeing's woes saying that planes shud be designed and built by engineers , not by spreadsheets in an accountants office ..loosely quoting but it's relevant ....Rugby can't be this thingy running out of control downhill tripping on its own feet pursuing cash ..You ...Me ...we ...have to push back now and defend Rugby's greatest asset ...It's values between people .....cheers

[@admy1133]

This is sweet music to a kiwi ear. We would love to have the boys in green back at super rugby.

[@Alias-gy3tz]

No thanks, we were bored with Super Rugby 5 years before we left. Nobody cared to watch after a while.

[@admy1133]

@Alias-gy3tz bored because you could hardly ever win it lol.

[@gorgu08]

@@admy1133no because it is a shit format with dying audiences and terrible commercial opportunities…

[@philipraw7400]

South Africa have had to buy our way into URC and EPCR the last few years, total investment last year alone to participate was R429m, we still have another year to go before we start receiving any financial returns when our equity finally kicks in. Canning the URC just before we become equity participants to make this investment worth zero, would be in extremely poor taste from the other URC unions. Expect significant legal action to follow, as a minimum we would need to be refunded for the investment we have made to date to buy this equity, and likely also compensation for the income we have forgone the last few years.

[@johankotze1622]

I have had my fair share of banter with the Irish fans,but i do believe we will stand together and nip this in the butt.

[@tonymurphy9795]

You do with me anyway!

[@vivb5180]

I think you mean 'bud' ... ie, nip this in the bud

[@johnkilcullen]

I was in SA for the Irish tour in July. Met lots of SA fans. They were great. There was none of the arrogance you get from some keyboard warriors on social media. Yes there was some banter but it was all very friendly and jokey.

[@annJord123]

​@@johnkilcullenwe're not so bad in real life hey 😂 thing is the podcasts and media do need us to be annoying keeps the interactions flowing 😂😂

[@penkop4282]

Agreed

[@mjribes]

This is definitely an English proposal because I don't see how this benefits Ireland. And it definitely doesn't benefit SA or Italy. The English clubs must be in bad shape

[@AbeHopwood]

Benefits ireland because they get to play better teams, rather than just the shit welsh and Italian teams, the mediocre south African teams who sometimes have a good game, and the really good Glasgow warriors. A lot of people have been saying, "we dont mind if england join the urc, we just dont want to merge with them". I really don't want england to join the urc because they'd just win it every year.

[@mjribes]

@AbeHopwood What happened to Super Rugby is a cautionary tale. Expansion killed Super 12 - which was the best club competition on the planet. And the Kiwis kicking the Saffers out of Super Rugby is a cautionary tale too. Look what that has done to the standard of players coming up through the ranks there. The standard of rugby in England is below par. The South African teams have been in every URC final so far, so they have more than the odd good game. The proposal will hurt Irish rugby and the Irish administrators aren't stupid. That's why this proposal will never fly.

[@phenomenalone1737]

​@@AbeHopwood LMAO bait used to be believable

[@somenamethatdoesntmatter]

Its literally an english proposal. Well done on reading comprehension.

[@mjribes]

@@somenamethatdoesntmatter The media didn't report it like that. Well done on being a nob.

[@struesbob7493]

URC is just now getting going! We not going back to Super Rugby!