Eidolon Tierlist: Part 1 | Honkai Star Rail

[@neroatlas]

I wanted to thank everyone for the comments about the characters they love playing! I’ll be making a community comment focused video about it as a follow-up, so that I can address each one the best! Check the Community post about this video's reception to know more about how I'm taking care of your feedback.

[@nightshadow-kun4798]

Nah, putting Jade's E1 on costly is just wrong. It changes how you can build her team and where you can use her completely. Making it possible to comp her with single target dps instead of needing a Aoe dps making Feixiao and Topaz great team partner for her and making her viable in non PF Battles. To your explanation it should be Saucy (gameplay changing) just like how acheron doesnt need 2 Nihilty characters anymore.

[@neroatlas]

@@nightshadow-kun4798 Thanks for sharing with the community! I’ll check the character in more detail and revise it!

[@Morkins324]

This. E1 Jade + Feixiao + Robin is an elite Pure Fiction/MoC/AS clearing monster that obliterates nearly anything that you put in front of it, even ignoring Weakness Types. (Easy 0 Cycle on this MoC 12 - Side 1 [Kafka] and an easy 1-2 Cycle on MoC 12 - Side 2 [Aventurine])

[@Sinister_Creeps]

shes mid anyways

[@kronus_qr9757]

no way robin e1 is not the at the top, thats easily the best e1 in the whole game, transforming robin into robin+ruan mei at the same time, what makes ruan mei so valuable to most teams is RES PEN, and robin gets thats for free in her e1, im so confused of why acheron and feixiao being better, since none of them work without supports

[@neroatlas]

Thank you! I’ve been discussing about Robin’s E1 with my community as well, and we ultimately agree about bumping it to S. The reason why it’s in A is that it doesn’t change the gameplay, but a big buff to the entire team can make things much more viable in general, so I definitely see moving it to a “gameplay-changing” tier! Thanks for the comment, I’ll be talking about it in the upcoming video!

[@Morkins324]

You are wrong on Firefly E1 and E2. E1 is perhaps less obvious because of the current team that Firefly is locked into. Firefly is Extremely SP Hungry at E0 and SP Agnostic at E1 (ie, she does not use Skill Points basically at all). In the CURRENT team, that is not a huge advantage because Gallagher is one of the most SP Friendly Sustains that could conceivably exist inside the game, in that you ideally never even use his Skill, Ruan Mei is SP positive, and HMC functions no matter how you use Skill Points though prefers to be SP Negative. All it took was ONE new character for that team and people are already factoring E1 into the pull value of a potential upgrade at Sustain. On the prospect of Lingsha not being as SP Positive as Gallagher, that has already caused many people to wonder if she is worth it in the team despite providing many other benefits. The SP requirements of E0 Firefly mean that Gallagher is extremely important to the functionality of the team. Any replacement that doesn't provide as much SP generation places strain on the team. And in the future, if we get a New Character that takes the place of Ruan Mei but is SP Negative or SP Neutral, then E0 Firefly is entirely non-viable in the hypothetical Lingsha - HMC - E0 FF - New Character team because it simply does not have enough SP generation to function. E1 frees Firefly from the SP requirements of her base kit, which in terms opens up her team viability. In the same way the E2 Acheron allows Acheron to be in different teams, E1 Firefly allows Firefly to be in different teams. It is just that right now there isn't really a viable alternative team. But it is hard to imagine that always being the case. And on the topic of E2, it is insanely strong. It not only dramatically increases her damage output, it also fixes one of the major weaknesses of the Super Break team, which is that you cannot do Super Break damage until after the enemy is broken. The ramp up time for Super Break is one of the greatest problems with it. At E0, you get the Break Damage pop when you break the enemy, but any hits that occur before the target is broken do not pop Super Break. Meaning that you need to wait until Firefly's next turn to get the full Super Break damage out of her attack. The Extra Turn provided by E2 means that you don't have to wait an entire turn cycle to take advantage of the full Super Break damage.

[@neroatlas]

@@Morkins324 Thank you for the incredibly detailed analysis! It will be featured in the follow up video, which will be all about the community feedback about the eidolons! I find it awesome we can get to a tierlist we make together, in the end!

[@bjornnilsson2941]

whoa this went off the rails big time around Firefly.. Her E1 and E2 are both amazing, near game breaking. The fact E1 is so good honestly makes E2 so much more tempting. Then massive face plant on Gepard. His E1 is massive for him in teams that require debuffs (Acheron mostly). On the same topic Aventurine E2 basically makes him into E1 Gepard but using basic attack instead of skill. HUGE eidolon for Acheron teams, tho not Acheron E2 levels of good of course. I also think you are undervaluing Harmony eidolons.

[@neroatlas]

@@bjornnilsson2941 Thanks for the feedback! As I’ve mentioned, this tierlist was to spark discussion and explore new territory, and I see it worked! I’ll be making a follow-up video with all the community feedback. As so many of you really ache for, I’ll be also making an analysis video where accuracy will be of utmost priority. That said, Firefly E2 is top tier already - while I definitely may have underestimated E1. Thanks for the feedback on the defenders, it looks to me as very valuable. I’ll be also talk about Harmony Eidolons in-depth in a dedicated discussion.

[@fraafmusic1322]

HuoHuo's E1 is actually super underrated. She makes her more skill positive and gives more buffs to the whole team. She becomes the perfect Abundance-Harmony hybrid imo

[@neroatlas]

I love Huo Huo, and I underestimated the value of her talent’s heals in the past. Sustain eidolons are a luxury, but I would be happy if I had it! :P Good to know you can use the lingering effect to keep allies healthy without reusing the skill too much!

[@gur151]

What's the point of making a tierlist like this? You're constantly peeking into Prydwen and judging the Eidolons' value by their numeric increase. Something like firefly's E1 completely changes the way you play the team and opens up for HMC to skill spam or even slot in Lingsha which both make the damage skyrocket. You have to take into account how these Eidolons interact with other units; Another example is Aventurine's E2 can be amazing for Acheron's stack generation. Or how powerful it is to stack DEF shred on the Break roster (FF E1, Boothill E1, Boothill Sig, RM E1, Lingsha E1) which consequently increases the value of these Eidolons even more. Also doesn't make sense to rate standard banner Eidolons. We aren't pulling for them.

[@neroatlas]

@@gur151 The point about checking Prydwen is showing data a dedicated community gather to back the tierlist ranking - which, as I mentioned below, is a casual format. How would you proceed instead? I agree on the Eidolons’ interaction as a criterion for them to be better, thanks for sharing that feedback. The reason to rank Standard banner eidolons is to know whether the character is getting better by a good bunch or not, and considering swapping them into our team. Speaking of synergy, as you mentioned, Bronya’s E4 is synergistic with Feixiao, and knowing about it while having it ranked can help other players. As I noticed many players that commented down below are really into detailed stuff, I’ll make a team and investigate further this topic: we thought it wouldn’t raise this much attention, and I just scouted with this video, while providing my current point of view in a casual format. If you have any further feedback, feel free to share!

[@davydambartsumian]

Dr. Ratio e2 actually adds a lot of damage, 36% increase from e0

[@neroatlas]

Thanks, I'll check it out!

[@xpeke2.027]

e2 danheng gives you an extra turn with full 3 stack attack so the battle starts with danheng doing 2 max attack for only a single skill point. combining this with sparkle/tingyun and you basically get this rotation every 2-3 turns. It does not have any problems at all since the additional turn is basically a free attack and you're actually even up a point every rotation because of sparkle ult + tinyun ult so you're reasoning on the downside of it is just completely false. edit: btw they are using musketeer set + f2p 5 star in that calculation lol.

[@neroatlas]

@@xpeke2.027 Thanks for sharing! Although I can’t test it - I have DanIL E0 - I’ll still investigate it more! Bumping it to S tier is completely fine, considering this!

[@bartoszlelenski3072]

It was fun watching you even if clueless you were most of the time. Tierlist would come out much better if it was done by more than one person. You could easily say E1 Yunli is good since you have it but it was obvious you had no idea what Jiaoqiu even does. Def and res ignore is more valueable than you think.

[@neroatlas]

YES, I was completely unaware about Jiaoqiu's Eidolons, and you can see my surprise by the reaction xD As any other HSR player, I don't claim to be an all-character expert, and videos like this are in fact an opportunity to share thoughts! That said, I always try to reference data and start working from there. I have friends that have been playing the game consistently everyday, and I always try double-checking my opinion. I agree on the fact that anything research-related does come better, if done by a team, and that's why I'm planning to make a video based on the comments I've been receiving. I've been also checking the interest in this topic, and I can definitely put *much* more research. In that case, I wouldn't use this format - tierlists are a casual format - but I would organize data in infographics, and follow a more engineery approach. Thanks for the contribution, I'm glad you had fun! Can you point out Eidolons that have DEF shred and that I undervalued? I'll investigate, if you do.

[@tokyovampire1]

Fun video I would love to see one for the limited 5 star light cones and the standard banner light cones

[@neroatlas]

@@tokyovampire1 Thanks for the support, tokyovampire! And sure, that’s a neat idea, I’ll work on that as our next video!

[@neroatlas]

Timestamps: 01:58 Acheron 03:24 Argenti 04:19 Aventurine 05:38 Bailu 06:34 Black Swan 07:18 Blade 07:56 Boothill 08:47 Bronya 09:29 Clara 10:20 Dan Heng: Imbibitor Lunae 11:09 Dr. Ratio 11:42 Feixiao 12:25 Firefly 13:02 Fu Xuan 13:35 Gepard 13:58 Himeko 14:19 Huo Huo 14:41 Jade 15:14 Jiaoqiu 16:22 Jing Yuan 16:46 Jingliu 17:37 Kafka 18:22 Luocha 18:44 Robin 19:12 Ruan Mei 19:32 Seele 20:04 Silverwolf 20:32 Sparkle 20:59 Topaz 21:37 Welt 22:20 Yanqing 22:50 Yunli

[@vik_versus8003]

With all due respect, to market this video as a curated info for free to play or low spenders, then arbitrarily justify your placements solely based on numeric increase is not good enough. We can all pull up these numbers and come to our own arbitrary conclusions too. You really did an injustice to the eidolons that were not blatantly dps related. Your next video needs a lot of research and more team focused discussions, and where you are unsure, there is no fault is saying that you do not have experience with the character rather than drawing incorrect conclusions

[@neroatlas]

@@vik_versus8003 I never “marketed” the video as something that would give final results on something, it’s a tier list, which is a casual format to spark discussion. I think that drawing conclusions is just something natural in a discussion, and I love that it brings conversation with the players in the comments. Would you say this to a fellow player that is discussing something? That said, I’ll be sure to highlight the accuracy I expect the video to have: I would obviously use another format if I want to assess truth in a definitive way.

[@vik_versus8003]

​@@neroatlasI'm just quoting your description. The average player isn't making videos, but yes, I would remind them about relevant nuances and interactions that they may not have considered and even the value of an entirely new character for said archetype Vs E1.

[@neroatlas]

Oh, ok, I get what you mean now: I was confused with the use of the term “marketed”, but I understand the description can be a bit misleading. In the future, I’ll take care to classify content between: “exploratory”, which should spark discussion (like this one); “casual”, which is just for entertainment purposes; and “analysis”, which will be data-focused and as accurate as possible. Thanks for clarifying, I definitely welcome your feedback then!

[@neroatlas]

That said, I’m planning a follow-up video, which I hope will address, among other things, what you mention about Eidolons!

[@papag4446]

Bro both firefly E1 & E2 are broken

[@entsensei]

Placing e2 fei and e2 acheron above rm, ff, and robin is wild 💀💀

[@Eukira12]

true. so broken Firefly has 1 free turn and no SP cost.

[@vincentpujis8079]

@@entsensei i agree to the youtuber cause, e1 rm actually fell off after e1 robin, e1 robin is just an increase damage, and e2 firefly need to break the enemy, meanwhile E2 feixiao and E2 acheron is just broken and change the gameplay without any condition to met unlike FF, and not just a damage boost like e1 robin or e1 rm . (but all eidolon above is cracked not gonna lie)

[@SpedRockt]

@@vincentpujis8079 Killing an enemy also give extra turn, and since she is blast it's much easier to get rid of trash mob compare to Seele. Her E2 is guarantee to work in every first wave, 1st phase bosses also in MoC. I have both E2 FF and Acheron (run with Sparkle) and I would choose E2 FF everytime.

[@papag4446]

@@SpedRockt plus E2 firefly makes her broken in all game modes literally with only Ruan mei as a 5 star support and the rest of the team is free to play Unlike Acheron you need a full premium team to dish out max potential

[@genereyes1904]

dyk how broken e2 ff is?

[@genereyes1904]

plus aint no way u said e1 is "not that good" lmfao it eliminates the sp problem of firefly allowing others to use skill points more like the hmc. plus the ignore def

[@neroatlas]

Yes: I know how Firefly is good, even at E0! This makes it very hard to estimate how good Eidolons are: you can see for yourself how strong and f2p accessible she is with Harmony MC. This is why I wasn’t sure to suggest getting Eidolons, when the character is already supported this well. That said, free skill points and free turns are gameplay-related buffs that are also very solid. I agree on the fact that E1 should be higher. E2 is in A tier already, and, although the extra turn is conditional, it does influence the gameplay in a reasonable way, so it’s a similar story as Imbibitor Lunae, with break teams performing better on average, being IL one of the first hypercarries in the game!

[@lukeskyfaker7901]

dps e1 that gives 24% dmg buff is widely considered good but robins e1 that gives 24% damage bonus minimum to ur whole team is not top tier?

[@neroatlas]

@@lukeskyfaker7901 Robin E1 is top tier! I may have explained the idea of tiers not in the best way, but the only key difference between A and S tier is that S tier involves things that actually change the flow of battle in some way that is not damage! So we just agree on this, Robin E1 is top tier.

[@lukeskyfaker7901]

@@neroatlas feixiao e2 is s tier even tho it just increases ult frequency, which is effectively nothing more than a dps increase

[@neroatlas]

@@lukeskyfaker7901 Yes, indeed! Using more ultimates is something that changes the game experience in an impactful way though, isn’t it? I have fun feeling I can see cool animations more often in a crucial fight, regardless of the damage

[@lukeskyfaker7901]

@@neroatlas it does not change teambuilding in a meaningful way except for maybe the fact u can get away with not running a sustain because you deal so much damage, but thats true for many other eidolons

[@reyesgianpaulor.7764]

try math

[@neroatlas]

I already did during University, and I admit I still have more fun with design :P