Arguing with the internet about LE training

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[@danielgodismyjudge]

I’m a deer hunter. There is this thing called buck fever, where a person panics.. So I started shooting a pistol in 2016 and last year I thought I was good… until I went to a completion and found out how bad I sucked. I didn’t give up and shoot competition once are twice every month, spring through the fall. Recently a friend of mine found himself in a self defense shootout 2x2 and had a malfunction (didn’t take off the safety).. but this happened to him in a competition.. he instantly recognized this and stopped the threat… ie “NO BUCK FEVER” Saved his mom, son and brother. I have to do the police qualification twice a year for a church security team and I can tell you, “ the police qual is insufficient for the real world”. Thanks for your videos, they have helped me in competition shooting.

[@TerminalM193]

Wait, there was a defensive shooting at an actual competition?

[@user-rl5je6bu6n]

The most annoying thing about these quals is that they become a “no shooter left behind” situation. And then you end up training to the lowest common denominator which sucks.

[@paulfrancois7653]

💯

[@onpsxmember]

The qualifications of the individual states differ a lot. HRFunk evaluated all 50 and a few others. The comparison of at least the top ones if one lacks the time are worth watching.

[@MickNelson-fb2qk]

I have 40 years in LE, 32 doing training where I worked for a large City, a County (Sheriff & Constable), a State Academy and a Federal Academy. Cops generally are not interested in improving their shooting skills. I opened our range on Sundays (APD) to allow all the FREE ammo they could shoot but on their own time. I had very few takers. I was allowed to attend many "Advanced LE Classes" but found nothing special, just a lot of "certificate collectors" who were nothing special as shooters. I looked for something better. I have now spent 30 years in USPSA where I made Limited GM in the first 5 years. Surprisingly, this caused a problem with my fellow instructors when I came home with some Texas Championship belt buckles. They were afraid be found out how little they could perform because many really just wanted access to the range and didn't care to instruct or run qualifications. That attitude carried into training where enthusiasm was lacking by both instructors and trainees. Fortunately, my rookie classes were given 10 days (2 weeks) on the range and 5000 rounds per student. They had to shoot and be safe or we did a lot of push-ups! When they left the Academy, they were above the 80% we required (the state says 70%) and most of our OIS were legitimate and accurate. I've been gone from that agency since 2008 but do my LEOSA annual qualifications there. The powers in charge have now stripped away all that training as too much range time and their ammo budget has been cut severely. The cost will come back to them in lawsuits, injuries, or worse. I spent 4 years at a Federal Training Academy where I found the Feds had tons of money and ammo to spend but no real skills albeit a couple of guys you would know who are USPSA shooters (JJ). I was amazed at the lack of shooting and instruction skills with the Feds! LE in general has issues training their folks to shoot. They practice for the "real world" and shun competition shooting which is total 🐂💩. Standing on a line shooting 100% on 1 target with generous time limits isnt much for shooting but cops just cant do it and dont care.....Back at the SO I pushed for better instruction and our SWAT guys got to shoot with "TGO", Rob Leatham. Rob set the world on fire and they came back totally enthused! The instructors and SWAT loved it but it didnt carry over to the rank and file. The Sheriff would send me "special needs" shooters on occasion and we averaged over 500 rounds a day on many days. Those days went away also.......Getting Cops to shoot well or just properly trained on any important skill will always be an issue. The "bean counters" don't want to spend the money and they want their folks out answering calls.......sorry, rant off.......😲

[@MellowFellowOfYellow]

It’s a weird balance of funding honestly. Most of Federal LE is about large scale investigations that require expertise, so very little real “need” for handling firearms well for most agents. But local cops are on the street daily with a high potential of seeing random violence. Yet they don’t typically have the funding to do long term academies with lots of shooting. Just depends on the agency too. DSS and DOE folks are gonna shoot lights out compared to TIGTA or OIGs for example.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Talk to pendant publishing.

[@mikagami69]

Dude, this! It's so frustrating. I'm fed prisons, and I can't even get out to practice with less than lethal munitions, much less our firearms. So frustrating! We are not allowed to use the range on our own time, with our own ammo. I do a lot of armed medical escort, but we only get to qual annually. So I'm trying to get set up to practice on my own, but I don't make a lot, while my institution has stockpiles of ammo, lol. To make matters worse, I live in CA, so while I can get stuff a little easier than a non-LEO, it's still a pain, and way more expensive. Hopefully I can move back to a sane state (not from CA originally),but in the meantime, trying to get it all together on my own time and dime is tough! Oh well, I'm trying.

[@wyldewest278]

This is so incredibly accurate brother

[@dominickkienlen1805]

Yea… sad facts here..

[@ZizinRacing]

Mag dumping at dirt confirmed to be the highest tier of firearms training. I always knew it. 😤😤😤

[@GlorifiedG-z9c]

Those clods are good reactive targets !

[@onpsxmember]

🎯

[@oklahomahank2378]

In re the unmotivated: I think it was Ken Hackathorn that said how much more fun it was to teach non sworn people in classes because they wanted to be there and had paid their own money to be there.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

That’s very true. They also have bad attitudes until you give them your resume and smoke the entire class.

[@uchis2k]

“Only law enforcement should have guns.” What a Joke.

[@HaveAblessedDay7777]

Sounds to me like someone who needs to train more and stop complaining and blaming the gear when it’s their lack of training. Plain and simple. Another great video Mr. Stoeger and keep up the great info and drama. I love it!

[@MGreen18F]

I’ve qualified with duty gear and duty issued firearms, many times and the guys that shoot USPSA ALWAYS do the best. The guy who asked that question just sucks and is looking for excuses not to train or shoot matches

[@joie0]

Recently, I've adopted one of your methods for training. Run the wheels off and fail fast. Too many times I've practiced things going slow and never make progress. It seems reckless to most people but I think I have built a lot of skill, fast, by training this way.

[@shawnstallard7328]

That second comment came from someone who has never shot a match or is using gear as an excuse to suck. I routinely used my duty gear in matches and the difference between that and comp gear is miniscule. If you put the time in the duty gear works just fine.

[@chasedooley6237]

Yep, I had an instructor who was a competitor guy and was teaching my class on reflextive/point shooting using a retention holster/duty holster. He was still faster at drawing and hitting than we were with basic friction holsters. It’s practice that makes the difference

[@onpsxmember]

@@chasedooley6237 The bigger difference is between sped holsters that can be just lifted. Defeating the retention and otherwise having the same movement isn't that much.

[@chasedooley6237]

@@onpsxmember Yep, I agree. The instructor had us practice draws in steps. First step was break/disengaging the retention and having the gun just slightly out of holster in at least a third of a second. Wasn’t hard for us newbies

[@chap23305]

It still shocks me to hear people blame the gun for why they can't shoot. Guys who were passing the quals with Glocks, went out and bought Staccatos. Their scores are relatively unchanged, but the claim the Staccato makes them so much better lol. Also, I see less than a 0.2 difference in drawing from a lvl 3 safariland and my comp holster. This is not an huge hindrance.

[@user-rl5je6bu6n]

Can I assume you are starting with the hood down and just manipulating the thumb break? If you are doing that with the hood up, that’s damn impressive. My impression of what Ben was implying was in a USPSA course of fire with 20 shots, the draw from retention or not isn’t going to make a huge difference in total time.

[@chap23305]

@@user-rl5je6bu6n negative. All retention devices engaged from the start.

[@chap23305]

@user-rl5je6bu6n I'm also not the only LE guy who can do this, there is a group of us who compete, and I would say almost all of us see minimal damage in time drawing from Lvl3 holsters.

[@Shoppe_Talk]

Indiana’s basic qual got significantly easier. To the point that not passing should disqualify you from looking at a gun.

[@everettsnyder1763]

I’m old enough I remember we shot a 50 yard stage. Then around 1998 they took that out and 25 is it on a HUGE scoring ring for full value. A lot of states as well as the FED’s have softened up their firearms “minimum “ standards. Why we see shootings that turn into abortions on body cameras

[@gbos4384]

Local Indoor Range here has a sign "No rapid fire". I do the bill drill there all the time and no one has ever said anything... so I asked the owner. He said the sign is there for him to get after newbies who do uncontrolled rapid fire and end up hitting the ceiling. Anyone who can keep rounds downrange... is fine.

[@him4440]

yeah same at my local indoor range

[@nyetliu]

Exactly. Most people who don't live in dumb states have no idea what it is like. Also, you really think people are going to travel out of state a few times a month to train? Even once a month? A few times a year? Especially if coming from dumb states, traveling by air with a firearm is just too much of a hassle.

[@n0tthemessiah]

When that dude complained about not being able to compare comp shooting with police quals, I just pictured Barney Fife wrestling with his holstered revolver to shoot the one bullet he's allowed to have lmao

[@neptunestrident4364]

Great content, as always

[@620ronin]

Your commentary is appreciated

[@armedthreatsolutionstv1010]

The issue with LE training is that most of the instructors do not understand shooting so the only corrections they know to give are "slow down" "focus on the front sight", "slow steady trigger press", etc. They've attended a 40 hour course to become and instructor given by someone else who took a 40 hour course on becoming an instructor so they just read from the playbook they were given. The small percentage that have stepped out into USPSA see thru all the old dogmatic BS but when they return to the dept they are admonished due to the egos of those in charge. The fudds believe in the dogma like a religion and if you tell them any new way of shooting you have directly assaulted their sacred cow. They simply don't understand shooting and will perform gold medal level mental gymnastics to protect their own egos. Been a cop for 16 years and shot USPSA for 7 of those and honestly if the head firearms guy at a dept isn't high B, A, M, or GM then they haven't even began to understand shooting and are regurgitating info they heard elsewhere. The most hate you will get is by making M in USPSA, trust me.

[@ToddRitz-pv6hm]

WELL SAID!

[@roycohutta3856]

I’ve seen guys shoot very well and very fast with retention holsters and all the gear. You can max (or come very close) most qual courses with retention, etc.

[@arbyssauce]

"Someone smarter with more tools" we all know that's Joel. 😂

[@adamriehl8166]

It’s a little sad departments don’t have a tiered qual system with a monetary incentive.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

You want to give them more money for something they should be doing? More money for running 7 minute miles, more for doing 25 pull ups…etc. self respect is gone and it isn’t coming back.

[@user-rl5je6bu6n]

@@HWG-wm8ld my impression of his point is instead of a pass/fail only situation, the minimum stays the same but over achievers have an incentive to keep over achieving instead of saying F it.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

I get that too bud, but I’m from a place where you do your best or you will be replaced.

[@brad_1388_]

@@HWG-wm8ld clearly you don't work in policing then lol. it's currently teetering on the edge of becoming completely ineffective due to a lack of good recruits

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Brad, you are correct, never been police. I’m retired and work for a college that host the police academy for many departments. I’m well aware of the struggles they have. I’ve volunteered to offer students advanced education for three years now, 2! Have taken me up on the opportunity.

[@Ninjaman-do5uk]

The biggest issue is and always will be a low minimum standard by departments. If an officer is meeting the minimum the requirement then they are technically good enough. This also means the department will only invest time and resources to get people to that level and keep them there. It is very rare for an agency to actually provide anything beyond that. This creates an environment of passively (sometimes even actively) discouraging over achievers. Even mine, a MASSIVE agency with deep pockets and a massive training facility. They tell recruits all the time during NG the academy and at trainings "you can come train at the department range, maybe even free ammo" but then they get annoyed when you actually want to use the range.

[@dougshellusn]

As a musician, a common tactic to improve when struggling play a fast piece of music we would often intentionally attempt the piece much faster than written and push through mistakes. Eventually, when slowing back to the written pace, the piece felt very slow and approachable. There are tons of reasons, but either way, the logic checks out

[@nyetliu]

Exactly.

[@StilettoCraft]

Ben, I really appreciate you bringing this topic up. Because the Law Enforcement community needs to do better and move away from thinking that qualifications equal competent shooters. I can say from my LEO experience that the same officers that “qualify” again and again have issues doing simple things, like shooting moving targets and shooting on the move, all basic things btw. And don’t even get me started on Officers and threat identification in close quarters with a gun. Training standards in the LEO community need to be reevaluated and heightened. Just because you can qualify doesn’t mean that you’re a good shooter that can operate in a real world environment. Please keep talking about this topic.

[@nchintalapani]

Well some of us shoot from concealment with our EDC pistols, the only additional thing I use for competition is 2 mag pouch. Am I a GM level shooter, NO. However, a B class shooter ain't nothing to laugh at either.

[@user-rl5je6bu6n]

I think I’ve seen Ben laugh at B shooters in person. And it was probably me.

[@bawhitham23]

LE training isnt training at all. Its a liability insurance to pass responsibility off to the officer. Very few departments actually train their officers to a degree that actually prepares them for an engagement.

[@MachoJoey1]

I fair amount of LEO come out with duty gear my local outlaw matches. Always happy to see them out and getting some gun work.

[@XA36]

People who blame gear, guns or ammo or whatever aren't looking to improve. They're looking for a reason to say they don't need to improve. I shot a bone stock glock with 115g factory ammo for years. Hell, I still shoot factory 115g, never once was my holster, gun, ammo, belt, etc the reason for my placement or classification. People see something they know is difficult and they either decide they want to try to do it or they decide they could if they had the same gun, the same shoes, the same ammo, or whatever. It's a childish thought and it only protects and serves your ego.

[@aribpm]

You will more than likely analyze the situation for a second or two as your fight or flight kicks in. Nobody reacts the way they think they would when gunshots go off unexpectedly. Frozen in fear for a moment is a real thing. Who is shooting, why are they shooting, do I shoot them, do I run? In the time it takes you to think those thoughts, and you should definitely think those thoughts, you will have your gun drawn. It should be no problem for anyone who has attended a few matches, to be able to put shots on target out to 25 yards reliably from several shooting positions. Competitive shooting definitely made me a faster shooter overall but there is an element of surprise that is left out of matches. I get kind of bored with the who can do the same dance everyone gets to see the fastest. I have the most fun running through a shoot house with no stage walkthrough, a timer strapped to me,trying to figure out targets that have the gun, knife or just holding a phone (TDSA). 360 degrees of movement with targets around blind corners is addicting.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Same, I’ve never done most of the common “drills”. Not saying they are bad, but when I’m being shot at, I’m not standing with my feet glued to the deck.

[@KartSmarter]

To the red shirt that wrote the second comment…you could be sub second drawing out of your safari L3 if you practice.

[@russdennis7026]

You got to put in the work.

[@adamleighton8052]

Been watching for a while and after almost every video I wanna go shoot… and try to shoot as fast as I can and focus on fundamentals while doing so. It makes sense and It always surprises me when I do it and get acceptable “combat” hits for lack of a better word. C zone or better. I tell my friends to try it and their responses is “it’s fun but it wasting ammo because you’re missing”… fud mindsets in their lower 20’s. Blows my mind… I just wanna get better

[@TrevorLahey_69]

Imagine a bodybuilder looking you in the eyes and saying "WEIGHTS?!? What do I need that shit for!?!".

[@NEVECcommand]

First comment is true AF. I had family that trained federal agents and saw people who should’ve failed (via tests, training, etc) were passing and becoming agents.

[@nyetliu]

Re: Range policies on rapid fire. That was my comment about rapid fire and ranges. The reality is that most of the ranges in CA, particularly big city ranges, both indoors and outdoors (which are rare enough, often hours apart) are like that. So if you live in CA you're screwed. For ben (and everyone else) this isn't a problem: but it is a reality for most folks that live in those areas, and as a result, they're terrible with firearms. Shocking.

[@traillesstravelled7901]

That was more reasonable and less spicy than I thought it would go.

[@DougJones-q1j]

Department changed our standard Qual a few years ago. Went from FBI standard to a time/accuracy version. 2 at 25 / 2 at 20 / 2 at 15 - El pres 2 times at 7 yds. 3 mags of 6 with USPSA scoring on IPSC. Shooting and moving and reloads incorporated. Good change over the static, no time measurement style of before.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

That’s good considering what other departments have cut theirs down too.

[@onpsxmember]

What state and dep.?

[@GallantryDynamics]

“We fully agree. (Around 7.:30 into the video) You can clearly measure ways of live fire that mimics the physical abilities to be used in subjectivity.” -Merc

[@MedicalTape_xX]

When you say failed I assume you mean the dot just went off and didnt come back during normal fire?

[@TheAdequateMedia]

I'm a single dude who's super autistic and shoots A LOT. Consistently, when I hear the loud LEO who's insisting "i get a discount right?"; bring a Girl to teach them how to fire a Glock or something, and more often than not .. whenever they do the: 'Okay babe! watch how it's done" they'll send a steady one shot per second and manage to keep 1/3 into the larger ring of the bullseye on the majority of silhouette, you'll find at ranges I live right next to my local shop/indoor range where they do their Qualifications and training for said Qualifications, and some of the guys I've been next to genuinely scared me with the amount of spread they were getting at ten feet, nonetheless some of them were insanely good. just not the majority that ive encountered. Im in south Orlando at the only decent indoor range thats not shooters world (which is ass)

[@jonathanmachado439]

When I started doing matches after competing in rifle for years I used to do a few matches of idpa and ipsc every year. Then for about 3 years with limited time and budget I focus in PPC police pistol shooting and I was convinced that it should be mandatory that all police or law enforced should use that practice often a couple of time per year or every month. Every string goes from 3y to 25Y and If they train to hit the X and achieve a decent score so more the 460/480 score then they should hit the center Mass in any shooting situation. I think this is the most basic training. A frequent training must be mandatory just because the lack of skills in a shooting situation may end in an innocent death

[@November-actual]

I can’t stand and refuse to go to one round per second ranges. They say it’s for insurance but get better insurance

[@murrayjthompson1893]

The culture. I started waaaay back when target focus was critical to perform hip shooting, natural point, point shoulder, etc., shooting at 25 yds and in. I taught that style until I retired. It was a 100% deviation from what changed the world in police qualifications with the advent of Weaver, Mod Weaver, etc. The FBI used to have the mindset that you got all the training you wanted until the lawsuits started by a group of women and some men who flunked out because they could not meet physical, firearms, or academic standards. One redo with firearms, pt, and academics was all that was allowed. After that, you got a ticket home and no opportunity to become an agent. I even had one person canned for bad attitude. The lawsuit turned it into nobody pretty much failed, etc., because management types didn't want the hassle on their career path. That mentality was 100% at the highest levels. It flows downhill. Rock the boat and they try to screw with you. You get the jobs that have 2-4 hour one way drives, night shifts on some wiretap in a dump, etc. Some upper levels demanded "special" training days so nobody was there when they magically qualified. I recall one police training coordinator attending an SAC conference in Dallas where my SAC stated he had the dumbest principal firearms instructor in the BU because he had listed him at the top of the delinquency list 14 times. He should have lost his gun after 2. You get the idea. Only sanctioned change is acceptable to these people. I went back and watched your videos from 4 years ago just to see if you were referring to the same target focus that existed in the 40s 50s, 60s, 70s and very early 80s. It's the same. Maybe you many KZbin videos will shake up the LEO community to the point that they, at least, consider reverting back to target focus.

[@dwayneh9061]

Most cops don't want to shoot. We see the same habitual failures . If officers pay attention to fundamentals, they can pass qual courses. Speaking from training world of LEO.

[@MrJlpzjr]

Everything you have said is true.

[@Gypsyman40]

They issue I see is that most officers only train to pass the qual. Rarely do I see officer doing advance training at the range. Last time I checked it's still a perishable skill

[@xwhoopax]

In response to comment of the duty guns and duty gear not being able to compete with the "competition" guns, Ben is correct. It's just a matter of actually training and not training. You got guys like Tony Wong at GM level with a glock 26. You can't tell me that a duty gun in 9mm is any worse than trying to shoot a 9mm pocket gun in competition lol.

[@ergofoxxxy]

For the most part from body cam videos it seems to be pretty effective at close range. They put the front sight dot on the threat and shoot. It shows how much margin of error there is at a person's disposal for an effective shot. Can't argue they aren't effective for anything except longer ranges beyond 25 yards

[@ergofoxxxy]

if you put 2 drivers behind identical hellcats, one a professional F1 driver and one an average guy, they can both mash the pedal in a straight line equally while holding the wheel straight.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Dexter Reed, they fired 96 times with 13 hits and only three that mattered. No groups anywhere. The F1 driver would know not to send the pedal straight to the floor because that would just fry the tires.

[@ergofoxxxy]

@@HWG-wm8ld so which of those first shots wasn't a hit? It's an extreme edge case, but how weren't each officer's first shots on the person? You can throw every shot after that or every shot after the first 3 shots and it looks like some of those officers were being shot in the hand and injured. You can watch plenty of other videos where a few shots are fired and hit even when the officer has been shot and injured Also 2 cars with traction control aren't frying the tires. You push the pedal the car goes and shifts. Not going to be a lot of difference in 1/4 mile

[@elijahanderson6736]

I shot better than any of the instructors and was getting sub 1 second first rounds from a level 3 @ 3 yards(not really impressive but still) and i was told "That type of stuff doesnt work in a real firefight... lol

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Did they advise what does? We do the same(level 2 holsters), start walking towards the target from 5-30 yards, buddy will say gun or knife at anytime. Gun, we immediately shoot moving to cover. Knife, we stop, hold on the head until he says fight. We have a 360 range and place targets everywhere.

[@FUNshoot]

2:19 We can and already have measured this. It's about 10%, often less: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5mve5qkdtVsf6s

[@sdsorrentino]

"WHATABOUT MAH LEVEL 3?" You do know that we can practice beforehand, right?

[@shaunt892]

Fourth or fifthe!

[@Shadow__133]

Fourth. Just consolation prize for you. 🏆

[@agentwashingtub9167]

Every month I go to 2 gun shooting competitions and one or two additional afternoons of drills. I'm a weirdo so I also do competitions in a different gas mask each month, which is a bit of a handicap. Plus choose to retain all my magazines instead of dropping them throughout the stage. Even with all that last month I was 12 places higher than any of the cops who came to compete. Their training isn't anywhere near sufficient for the real world and I know a lot of regular people who are a lot better than them

[@HWG-wm8ld]

A lot of people for sure. Cops today are crossing guards with powers to arrest, not all, there are plenty of great dudes, but they are becoming few and far between. Wonder what the next 20 years will bring.

[@ShootingSportsandAccesso-sd9li]

I wonder how many people don't recognize that Ben used to be a cop.

[@ShootingSportsandAccesso-sd9li]

Or Vogel, for that matter.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Vogel has it stamped on his face.

[@a38337]

Gotto drive faster than parking lot speeds if you are going to get good at driving for real in heavy traffic on a multiple lane interstate highway.

[@buddymax4809]

Weird, watching a video talking about how overwhelmingly police firearms are terrible then seeing comments starting with the amount of their service years.

[@rurouniad]

Remoil users assemble!

[@MRsolidcolor]

there just needs to be MORE training all round. if they fail they dont need to carry the gun.. end of story.

[@CitizenCarrier]

I’ve heard that statistics of officer involved shootings show that on average, law enforcement officers have only a 20 to 30 percent hit ratio. Meaning 7 or 8 rounds out of 10 fly off to who knows where to possibly injure or kill an innocent person. That is unacceptable for anyone that carries a gun on them. Especially law enforcement. Minimum qualifications obviously ain’t cutting it. I get the whole “shooting under stress” thing. But there are training classes that work on stress inoculation. Law enforcement agencies won’t pay for that. But if a cop really wants to improve their skills under stress, they can certainly pay out of pocket for that training in their own time. Hell, I do. And I’m not even in law enforcement. But I do carry a gun on me every day. “My department won’t pay for that” is a sorry excuse.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Check out Dexter Reed, they fired 96 rounds with 13 hits and only three that mattered. They got the tires though, bonus points

[@ThePoorBoy]

I always wonder how USPSA competitors would do in force-on-force training when they get taken to the ground and have their gun taken away from them (hint: about as well as most cops).

[@Lucas12v]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Competition shooters aren't good at shooting after loosing a wrestling match?

[@papabear2965]

@@Lucas12v That was a non sequitur if I've ever seen one lol

[@Gun_Dork]

I think it’s important to note that the qualifier is for all officers and there are officers that will work primarily in an office setting.

[@wittmer341]

How about instead of teaching officers to shoot at panic speeds we teach them not to panic?

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Good luck.

[@wittmer341]

@@HWG-wm8ld I’ve actually had really good luck. Force on force training is the way to go.

[@user-sc2ye2rj6g]

I think the issue is that the higher ups see a problem (cops shooting fast and erratically during an engagement) and think that the answer is to slow down and get your hits, without recognizing the issues inherent in this thinking. This next part might sound crazy, but if you want to solve the issue of poor marksmanship during an engagement without fixing it with proper training, mandate that all cops will be issued, and must carry, a double action revolver, no exceptions. I would be willing to bet that accountability and marksmanship would be a lot higher during a shooting. This is the same pattern that I see when I look at how erratic and stupid the average person drives a vehicle. Modern safety features have made everyone lackadaisical by nature, and the same is true when you have 18 rounds on tap. Put an artificial limit on something, and people will find a work around for it. Is this actually feasible to implement? Absolutely not, but philosophically it makes sense.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

They would scream equality 🟰

[@BullseyeBallistics-kf1jw]

Its insane how terrible law enforcement is. Not only with shooting, but knowing the law itself.

[@adamtimmins3035]

I don't think it's so much of an issue of officers not wanting to train, but we just don't have time and the agency doesn't have the budget to do more. I would love to train more, but I don't have time because I am expected to be doing my investigations. The budget also doesn't allow us to train more than about once a quarter.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Good excuse.

[@petercho546]

Police standards are a joke. It seems like they are slowly starting to improve, but man they are downright comical. You can pass many standards for police without even having sights at all, as long as you have "the presentation" down.

[@seanmccurdy94]

Imo the average "gamer" is faster than your average leo, but the leo who games is gonna smoke the whole squad.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Not if he doesn’t practice with his piece.

[@ellwoodwolf]

I heard he has a pink Glock to show girls in school zones...

[@jimbodrums12]

Third (or fourth)

[@Shadow__133]

Third! Congrats! 👏 🥉

[@n4d3m4n]

Why would you need to practice at speed when you can just get a comp? Lol jk

[@joie0]

Haha. Build a grip or buy a comp. Unfortunately thats a decision many people make every day and almost all buy the comp. Hey I did it once..

[@buckley123]

Here in the People's Republic of Washington, I'm in the second most populated County, and I don't believe there is a single public range that allows rapid fire. Most don't even allow holster draws. It's heartening to hear your experience is different, but some of us in Communist states aren't so lucky.

[@nyetliu]

Exactly. Annoying but not surprising that Ben dismissed it; he just hasn't had the misfortune of being stuck in a crap state.

[@AAlphaMike]

Second

[@Shadow__133]

Congratulations! 👏 👏 🥈

[@DadHominem]

First!

[@HWG-wm8ld]

Last in life. Congratulations child

[@Shadow__133]

Ignore the jealous loser, you earned it! 👏 👏 👏 🥇

[@tmgjurassic3738]

If they go at a higher speed that results in them losing control of the firearm, like dropping it are you okay with it?

[@MRsolidcolor]

i only know of Ny having different triggers in there guns but have you never ran a double action gun? stop talking mess bad triggers? train around them all i hear from cops are im fat lazy and im good enough. but ya not

[@ShootingSportsandAccesso-sd9li]

Oh, it's another person who doesn't know who Ben is.

[@HWG-wm8ld]

I can’t understand what he wrote