Elden Ring DLC Talk Feat. Kosmos

[@kasp7674]

The thematic connection between water and death is a subtle hint, meant to explain why the tarnished can't swim.

[@MitridatedCarbon]

I wished we got a special animation for drowning. that's like the only complaint I have about the game.

[@Kosmos_er]

Thank you again for having me! This was a really fun conversation.

[@StriderCompanions]

My theory is, the DLC is post endgame, I think it's taking so long because they are remaking the entire map after the player takes the Elden Throne. I think we are presiding over the new order and the death of the Erdtree and miquella awakens to challenge our right to the throne.

[@solomon9655]

@@StriderCompanions As much as I love the idea, it doesn’t really work with Ranni and the Frenzy endings. It would also require a finished save file, which is a tall order for such a large game. The DLC will probably be accessible around the midpoint. Then again, Ringed City was only available at the end of DS3 so it’s possible the DLC will be in the endgame. I just don’t think it’ll be post-Radagon unfortunately.

[@Sitri115]

@@solomon9655 You could get to the Ringed City from Ashes of Ariandel which was accessed fairly early into DS3. Also since it's highly likely to involve Miquella I'd imagine the DLC entrance will be in either the Haligtree areas or Mohg's area both of which are fairly late game though you can get to Mohg's area by the time you reach Liurnia if you really bum rush it. My guess is that half the Expansion will take place in Dreams and the other half will take place after we wake Miquella up and/or complete the dream sections. Either that or it'll take place in the realm of the Helphen in which case I got no theories on how we'd access it or what the content would be. Also if you look at the picture there's Korean Feather Reed Grass or something close to it as far as the eye can see so maybe Land of Reeds+Helphen+Miquella's dreams?

[@StriderCompanions]

@@Sitri115 yall are just running wild huh?

[@StriderCompanions]

@@solomon9655 it work's for all endings, because before you can establish yours or Ranni's complete rule over the Elden Ring, you would need Miquellas rune.

[@noahlarson3670]

Oh, adding to the water and death connections, both Miqulla and Trina's lilies are water lilies specifically.

[@AssailantLF]

39:58 This gave me an idea about a potential connection between sleep and gravity based on their similar colors: Red is usually associated with the the physical world, vitality, and the body. Blue is associated with the magical, the mind, and the spirit. Gravity is the physical world being influenced by the magic of the mind, while sleep is the physical body being influenced by the magic of the soul. EDIT: This also sort of explains why dreams and evergaols are similar. They both create a separate world/dimension where the mind/soul are transported/contained. Gravity is more physically-based, so it physically transports you to another dimension. Sleep is more mind-based, so it mentally transports you to another dimension.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

This is basically what Hawkshaw says in his color theory video.

[@colt4505]

Remember, "unhinged speculation" is what started this channel, so these type of videos are the roots and you love to see it!

[@justmustard56]

I believe that the person on top of Torrent is Patches with his natural hair. The clothes the character is using looks a lot like the ones we can take in that chest he uses as bait. Maybe it's patches's past that this DLC is about.

[@alexterieur8813]

When Patches was a young maiden

[@zuurek6907]

St Trinas flame is light purple and the helphens is deep purple, because as you said sleep is similar to death, it just has death removed. So st Trinas purple fire + the red flame of the rune of death = the deep purple helphen flame

[@lovesiriusblack]

I love this! Found Kosmos half a year ago and his theories are so unique and interesting. Thank you for having him here! :)

[@johncra8982]

Posting this under the latest vid on the channel, since I'll forget this question if I hold off on asking it in wait for a relevant video about the mohgwyn dynasty, but what do you think about the reduvia blade resembling the fingerslayer blades in a weird way? We know the blade of calling and the black knife assassins' daggers have that curved motif going on, but I just noticed recently that reduvia has some similarities to the fingerslayer blade as well. If anything, the bony/skeletal nature of the reduvia honestly makes it much more similar to the fingerslayer blade than the black knife blades and the blade of calling are.

[@CrunchyVideos]

hmm I hadn’t thought about it. Might be nothing more than a general trend of making weapons out of body parts, but I’ll take a look at them and think about it

[@pigzy9807]

Water being related to death also fits thematically. Death is needed to end the rot and stagnation and the flowing waters cue rot. Death leads to rebirth while the absence of death leads to decay.

[@nathanjora7627]

It's more life than death who's akin to water then. Endless life = still water, finite life = flowing water.

[@agressicum]

There is a huge reference between water and death in world mythology. First of all, Stix and Haron, boatman. Those spirit sailors are depicted from him, I suppose. Than, the sea itself was a source of fear for ancient people. Before first sailors (greek, obviously) managed to deal with sea routes and navigation, sea was usually described in reference to chaotic monster, living there. The most ancient Jewish sacred books portrayed the God primarily as the conqueror of a sea monster. It was a core myth for almost all of Middle East cultures. And, you may be interested, the main invention of greek navigators was using stars to guide their boats. Yeah. Stars. Guided fate. Yes. It's that simple.

[@NN-qw8jf]

greeks weren't the first sailors, and stars had been used by humans as guides long before sailing was even a thing.

[@flyingfrogillustration]

Reminds me also of how constrictor snakes will strangle their pray to death.

[@primarchlogarius]

A fantastic podcast! I hope you do more like these! Glad I found out about kosmos. Next channel to binge on I suppose. On note of the DLC, Fromsoft always has us travel back in time for past expositions. I feel this will be the same in this DLC. But what is the mechanic? How do we go to the past? Will it be similar to meeting Placidusax? Where you are transported by sleeping?

[@Chessheromusic]

I’ve thought about it awhile. This seems like miquellas pictorial introduction in the beginning of the game when Gideon is introducing them. Gideon is shown with eyes and ears all around him So it’s not an actual place that’s being shown but more an artistic representation of the character. There is absolutely something we are getting that was held back from the base game. We are getting the 7th and final and maybe correct ending. The age of abundance Also this absolutely the creation of the Halig tree Bc miquellas curse is in full effect This is the past

[@evilanno3394]

The connection between bodies of water and the otherworld/world of the dead is probably inspired by Irish and gaelig mythology, where bodies water often are the passageway to the otherworld.

[@AutekMor]

Godfreys axe symbols does look like Octopus tentacles now that Kosmos mentioned it. Great chat!

[@AutekMor]

Also seen a good theory on reddit that gravity magic represents pulling into the void (aka primeval current where souls would go without Erdtree burial and there is a blackness in the middle of the spells), destined death is causing the body to die so that the soul moves onto the void then sleep is a temporary death.

[@icarusablaze1831]

Kosmos mentioning the tentacles on Godfrey's axe took me aback as well because I never eqauted the design on the axe head as tentacles. Looking at the image now, holy shit, he's definitely on to something. Now I can't unsee the grasping tentacles and sunction cups. The imagery reminds me of a kraken. The design is similar to what's on the beastman cleaver, but Godfrey's is much more tentacle-like imo.

[@puzzleheaded6195]

That’s an interesting detail. He also wears a blue cape which is usually meant to represent brisk water in the lore. It’s obvious to associate Godwyn with the sea but I never thought Godfrey so much.

[@icarusablaze1831]

@@puzzleheaded6195 Godfrey is likely related to the sea in that he crossed the ocean twice to leave the lands between and to return. The voyage must’ve been brutal. Maybe he fought sea monsters at some point?

[@nathanjora7627]

It reminds me of the motif on the gilded greatshield (godrick knight GS) and godrick knight armor's blazon. The description of the latter calls it an "axe head"... But it doesn't look like one at all to me XD

[@nathanjora7627]

@@puzzleheaded6195 I mean, blue is also a color of nobility and the color of champions.

[@johncra8982]

18:00 I started wondering about this while thinking the point you made about the kinda-upside-down-but-not-really architecture in the eternal cities, but I feel like the liurnia divine tower should be discussed a bit more by people. There's a lot about liurnia that bucks the trends set by the other regions, the divine tower there doesn't have an Egyptian style in its architecture or art style, there is no two fingers at the top, the existence of moonlit altar and the weird way you reach it, ranni's two fingers being at the altar, liurnia as a whole being built atop that giant crystal, the great rune you find there being unique and very different from all the others, both in a narrative as well as a mechanical gameplay sense, etc. Idk it may have just been fromsoft trying to do a fun little upside down puzzle tower the way they did a winding interconnecting tower with the research hall in bloodborne, but I still wish there were more discussion about that tower in liurnia bc I get the feeling that there's more to it.

[@nathanjora7627]

What do you mean "doesn't have an egyptian style" ? It's got exactly and literally the same architecture as all the others, it's just that you access it through another tower with a more conventional architecture.

[@johncra8982]

@@nathanjora7627 I guess if you ignore the part of the tower that isn't pseudo-Egyptian and call that part a separate tower entirely, then yeah sure, the liurnia tower is just like all the other ones 😂

[@nathanjora7627]

@@johncra8982 ... Why wouldn't I do that ? They're joined by a bridge, which is a very common thing, it's just that the bridge is shorter than in other cases. By that logic, then we shouldn't separate stormveil and the limgrave tower I guess, right ?

[@johncra8982]

@@nathanjora7627 you literally walk into a divine tower that looks exactly like the rest, and it isn't until you place the hourglass on the pedestal that the illusory tower reveals itself. stormveil has nothing of this sort going on with the limgrave tower. either way, this is beyond pedantic so you can have it lol

[@nathanjora7627]

@@johncra8982 What do you mean « exactly like the rest » ? You walk into a tower that has typical liurnian architecture, do the hourglass thing and then eventually go on a bridge that leads to an actual divine tower that is exactly like all the others. Stormveil does have to do with that because it is connected to its divine tower by a bridge just like liurnia’s divine tower is connected to the tower you first enter in via a bridge. Is it really just the fact that the bridge is longer in one case than the other that makes you think it’s the same tower ? And I know you mentioned the hourglass sequence as the thing that distinguishes them, but I don’t believe for a second that if you could put that hourglass in stormveil and it thus inverted the gravity in stormveil you’d say the same thing. Especially since once you go out of the inverted tower, you’re on a bridge that’s normally oriented, leading to a tower that’s normally oriented. Also don’t you find it odd that the same people who built one tower exactly like all the others would then build a bridge leading to another tower which is a lot more normal, architecturally speaking (yes there’s weird magic going on but the actual columns and walls and rooms and wood work and stone work are a lot more normal) and completely different from all the other runic tower, including the one it connects to ? I don’t get how you don’t understand it’s just infinitely more likely that first all the runic towers were made by the same people, and then later on people in liurnia limgrave altus and caelid build structures connecting to these towers. Especially since the bridge in question has the same statues and stone work and pavement and whatnot as on all the other bridges leading to a runic tower.

[@portalmanHUN]

The water and death connection is another japanese/shinto thing. Check out SmoughTown's video on Godwyn, he talks about this at around 55:13.

[@marcinolszewski2260]

Some of my thoughts: - in ds3 the cover was all the lands in ash - the time and place where we fight Gael and I assume the picture is the world after some events that we gonna experience - the tree looks to be burned - there is visible adh falling from it. Also the mountains visible around it I think could be piles of ash.

[@zadig08]

Trina pulls you down into slumber as gravity pulls down into terra firma.

[@Kampfender_Krieger]

The fact that we are getting a DLC made me want to replay the game and take another look from other angles at different aspects of the story and lore. Great discussion from both of you. It made me appreciate the questions Elden Ring asked and continue to ask.

[@CALLMEARBY]

If there truly is a connection between colors/hues of purple gravity and purple death, perhaps it is that of space/time. After all, faram azula is a place field with distorted gravity due to the colision with a star and the only way to acces the dragon lord placidusax who waits outside of time is to lay in a beast grave and sleep(?)🤔

[@maggic1989]

That was rly fun conversation, You Guys. Hope you do it again sometime !!

[@LeftoversGone]

hey crunchy i wanted to point out that in the Concentrated Snowfields at the late night time setting there's a strange black fog that rolls in from the magma wyrm area. i noticed that is way more noticable during late night right before morning, the black fog could possibly be what is covering the sky in the DLC teaser but im just rampling at this point it could also just be due to the fact that it's night time tho so the snow just looks darker i guess

[@varden506]

To Crunchy’s point re: water in Elden ring being involved with death and such, the quote from bloodborne comes to mind : “great volumes of water serve as a bulwark guarding sleep, and an augur of the Eldritch truth.” They could be using a similar concept in ER? Or I’m just overthinking it haha

[@CrocUser]

Surprised how you only have 8k subs! You deserve so much more and I am sure that with enough hard work you will get there. I really appreciate the work you put into your videos even though you probably do not profit from them. Keep it up

[@kyle1806]

Great conversation. Just subbed to both of you!

[@sargentjimmyjeanjonson3415]

Honestly that gravestone kinda reminds me of the cleanrot knights’ sickle

[@lofimusicandliminalspaces3908]

Too me it looks like another tree is wrapping around the erdtree and choking it out. Like maybe the after burning the erdtree allowed Godwyns corpse to take off.

[@LeftoversGone]

great video as always.

[@N7Allfather]

some notes for the color purple in ER, there is bits of purple when you consume the bigger runes and the crucible set is covered in flecks of purple. two odd things to find purple in from a visual standpoint so i feel like it has some meaning i just have no idea what

[@LadyAsmodeus]

I wonder if in the elden ring dlc, we going to meet the 3 major characters that are completely absent from the main game: Miquella, Godwyn and Marika cause just like miquella on the picture, they could exist in the other realm as dead spirits or memories or as a mirror image duplicates wonder if any of them going to be your ally, or a boss imagine if Marika is going to be the final boss in the dlc, being the mirror image of Radagon being the final boss but Miquella for a boss is a pretty good candidate too, granted he is about to transform into something terrific in the cocoon

[@sebastianmoscoso9404]

Omggg, miquella always wanted the golden order gone, and think about how miquella specifically wants to save godwyn and let his soul fully rest, because he had had part in it and feels responsible!

[@freemygrandma956]

The 2019 trailer, I like how when they strike the elden ring you can see the cracks getting bigger it’s crazy tbh

[@memoriesofgreen6088]

Really found this conversation interesting. I hope ypu have Kosmos on again sometime.

[@puzzleheaded6195]

This is so cool, you two are my favorite Lore KZbinrs. I think you two could get the story in a lot of good places if you brainstorm together like this 👍

[@Kosmos_er]

Miquella is actually godwyn

[@puzzleheaded6195]

@@Kosmos_er Miquella is actually the frenzy gloam eyed version of Blackguard Boggart. Calling it

[@alarionko]

Also another connection between water and death is that you die when you enter deep water

[@evanpeterson8634]

WE ARE GETTING A THIRD LAYER. Just like in the image of Yggdrasil. There are 3 layers. Asgard, Midgard, and Helheim. Miquella's plan succeeded just not in the way people had hoped. He was able to travel to Helheim by putting himself in the Haligtree, thus becoming Saint Trina, being able to move through space and time. Saint Trina was able to manipulate the entire story of Elden Ring by being the Snowy Crone, teaching Ranni about the Dark moon and giving Torrent to Melina. The mystery lies with why Miquella/St Trina/Snowy Crone would want with us. But i imagine we will get a third layer and travel to the "spirit world" where we will encounter Godwyn, Miquella and hopefully Merika. Also, since there are so many literal references to Shadows in Elden Ring (Ranni having Blaidd and Merika having Maliketh), what if Torrent is the Shadow of Miquella, that is why he is so sure with guiding us. Secondly, what if the ErdTree itself has a Shadow and that is the tree we see in the image? Questions......

[@basedgodly1623]

I heard this theory on another channel that the bodies in the mausoleum are just the headless knights that's why the bodies are headless they aren't demigods. They ring the bell essentially trying to guide godwyns soul back to his body as giant spirit calling bells. It could mean miquella might have even created them as part of his attempt to bring godwyn back

[@TheSUGA1202]

41:22 The runes of Destined Death and Marika's rune both look like the nordic runes to the Algiz and Yr runes which both meant life and death.Marika's rune represents the rune of life.

[@nathanjora7627]

Doesn't at all look like the yr rune though, the yr rune would be the symmetrical opposite of marika's rune, but the rune of death is oriented in the exact wrong direction for it to be similar to the yr rune, both in sense of where the "arms" are (on the top rather than the bottom) and where the arms are pointing (they are pointing toward the opposit end of the rune, rather than against the opposit end of the rune, which'd be "up" for the rune of death). Looks a lot more like the rune for Tyr, the Tiwaz rune.

[@sablemae8853]

Seeing those fields reminded me of The Elysium which really fits this being helphen imo.

[@TheRealTetro]

Spirit world DLC supporters rise up ! So many of the more mysterious aspects of Elden Ring are tied to the ideas surrounding spirits, I cannot wait for this to be explored further. Tying all things Death related together, Melina, GEQ, Godwyn and Miquella, but I also suspect we might get more about Ranni too, maybe even meeting her in spirit form as well. Cannot wait !

[@Landricities]

Honestly, the fact that Spirit World theories are receiving as much pushback as they are blows my mind a bit and I can point to a few things in the photo as to why I have that opinion, but the biggest one is the fact it's a field of some kind of wheat/reed looking grass, which for anyone who has nerded out on certain mythologies/fantasy media, its highly reminiscent of depictions of the after life like what you see in Gladiator, The AC Origins DLC, the recent Moonknight series, etc. Regardless of what the field vegetation actually is, its so evocative of that concept I just don't see how the idea this is some sort of spirit realm gets so easily dismissed by a sizeable portion of the broader community.

[@NoConsequenc3]

@@Landricities yeah the entire concept of the Helphen is right there and people are ignoring it

[@TheRealTetro]

@@Landricities At the end of the day, spirits already have a massive presence in Elden Ring, but some of those points are hard to confront head on. The basic idea of Torrent and Melina, Ranni's other face, the spirit ashes, evergaols, spirit animals and trees in the Mountaintops, Rennala's second phase, the first fight with Loretta, ....

[@swamashijudbedolofritt4448]

Ehm. Here's a thought. What if.... And that's a big if .. what if.... Rani, miquella and Malania was plotting together to kill Godwyn. Miquella is seeking a true death to Godwyn and didn't see Ranni's betrayal killing her flesh. That might explain the battle of Aonia since Radahn is halting Rannis fate. A plot within a plot also fits GRRM way of storytelling. The three empyrean plotting together and scheming against eachother whilst the two fingers are desperately trying to call back order and manipulating us tarnished whilst ranni has her own plan using us tarnished against the two fingers. Sheeeeeet!

[@joereed8872]

MASSIVE SPECULATION: I had similar thoughts. Though I would separate the gods/demigods into 3 camps that are loosely aligned. Marika's camp of ranni, miqulla, malenia, godfrey, rykard. Radagonsl's camp of morgott, radahn, godrick, mohg(maybe), elden beast. And lastly godwyn, melina, and torrent. Marikas group are all about change of some sort. Radagon's group are all about a return to stabilizing order, except mohg who I think specifically wants to return to an even older order, but I will except him maybe belongs to marika's group. The last group I'm gonna refer as the neutral group. I specifically think godwyn was a force that brought balance to all sides but stood in the way of both sides. In traditional narratives, godwyn is the hero. The one loved by all, friends and mighty warrior. The game tells the story of what happens after the hero falls. Torrent specifically chooses you and depending on who his master was (I think godwyn but have no evidence) is essentially the prophet who finds the new hero, someone who can succeed hidwyns narrative role. Melina feels like a by-ptoduct of godwyns death. Meant to establish the tarnished and in my personal theory is a combined form of godwyn and ranni during their "death". to push this further, I wouldn't be surprised if melina is the eclipse and godwyn was referred to as the God of the sun at one point.

[@swamashijudbedolofritt4448]

@@joereed8872 dude! I love that!

[@joereed8872]

@@swamashijudbedolofritt4448 thank you, it been my personal theory I've been putting together for a while now. Sadly it depends on heavy speculation and narrative analysis over in game evidence. Some side info to my theory is godwyn seems to be a willing sacrifice, ranni feels like she is mind, no body or soul(fate), godwyn is body, no mind or soul(fate), and melina is a crux of fate(soul), but had no memory or body. Again, very thin evidence

[@swamashijudbedolofritt4448]

@@joereed8872 i know it's speculation, but headcanon sometimes is the only way to make sense of plot motivations. Man I love this community.

[@zuurek6907]

I just realized that radagon and rennala have red and blue symbolism, and of their children, ranni uses blue magic, rykard red, and radahn purple

[@sk8legendz]

Isn't it odd that upon entering Malenia's Boss Room our character seems to show such interest in the spot of the Roots where Miquella would've resided within the artificial womb of the tree figure? Upon entering Malenia's 2nd phase our character will again move towards this spot to observe it. the game has very few cutscenes and I don't think this was lightly done. I wonder if that's where we will be entering the DLC. or if it will be associated with it in anyway.

[@JustinZode]

Yesssss another Crunchy podcast

[@KingUniverso]

If you were to die or fall asleep standing up, gravity would get involved there at least

[@sebastianmoscoso9404]

Lets not forget that torrent is referred to as a spectral steed, meaning hes basically a spirit animal, maybe he will help us go to the spirit realm

[@swamashijudbedolofritt4448]

Yeah and y'all talk about the ruin of death being removed.... Here is a thought. You see the old version of the elden ring in Faram azula. The lower part is a helix (witch everyone calls the Caduceus while Caduceus is just Roman for Hermes, please community it's a helix) just like ehm... The godslayer greatsword!!! The weapon the the glome eyed queen, the (or one of) empyrean before the Erdtree era.

[@thundertwonk1090]

Something to point out is that every FromSoft game, save Demon's Souls, has a "painted world." In the Souls games it's a painted world, and in Bloodborne its the Hunters' Nightmare. The "painted worlds" represent a place others end up, not necessarily go to, that matches their circumstances. For the Painted Worlds it's for the forlorn, people who have lost everything and long for a home. In Bloodborne it's a sentence, a place you're thrown in for your sins. Maybe Elden Ring's could follow that trend, it could be Miquella's "painted world." Another possibility is that, while in every other game the "painted worlds" were already there and decaying, in Elden Ring me could be helping Miquella create this new world. That, or that Miquella's world follows the pattern of the others and it's actually a terrible place that has begun to decay and fade.

[@roscoe2311]

Hope you guys collaborate again some time, thanks for the video!

[@nenashali09]

I hope you guys have viewed the elden ring color theory video. It showcases how thoroughly color impacts the lands between.

[@nenashali09]

The channel name is hawkshaw if anyone couldn’t find the video

[@Conzort_1]

The archways remind me of the Eclipse Crest Greatshield.

[@randalthevandal4170]

Fantastic video

[@jhit2026]

Do we know if the great runes corrupt the hosts or visa versa? If so, is that why Ranni discarded hers? Certain demi gods want to separate themselves from the golden order/Erdtree. Does Miquella still have a great rune? Are the demi gods power from the great runes only? Are the outer gods corrupting the great runes?

[@CrunchyVideos]

Great questions. It’s really unclear to me what Great Runes are exactly, and why there are two versions of them (besides the GRotU)

[@jhit2026]

Can't help to feel that if we are tarnished which means we were born out of the erdtree at some point, we are one with it. Could it not make us see and experience what it wants us to?

[@Throne6810]

Might it be that radagon holds a unique ability to conjoin with others? Perhaps he took over mericas first borne and therefore had to be assassinated. It would explain her reaction to her sons death

[@CrunchyVideos]

That’s a super interesting idea…

[@Reds_Resort]

You guys forgot Rykard when you were mentioning "who was in on the plan". Ranni and Rykard conspired together to steal the rune of death. Think it was the blasphemous claw description that states words to this effect.

[@Indifferentloner]

Radagon truly merciless

[@netmonkey]

I keep thinking the rune of death is opposite the rune of the unborn/Rennala's rune. On top of the strange obsession their respective holders have over the rune, i believe both received their rune before the shattering.

[@chriskotte8468]

On one of the swords that has a description in the open world it tells how radagon’s hair turned red. M

[@johncra8982]

I like that the reason I started watching crunchy and he eventually became my one really well-liked souls content creator was bc ratatoskr had him on for a podcast about unhinged lore speculation, and now the cycle is repeating 😂

[@carbinmonoxide8615]

I thought the rune arc facing up was because she is Marika the ETERNAL (undying, immortal) and the rune of death is the inverse of that.

[@michaelhopcroft8115]

From this chat I think its an inversion of the spirit world to the lands between. We have torrent looking very real and not like a spirit. like we only see heaps of trees in the forbidden lands and the mountaintop of the giants, and not in leyndel (the inversion/ spirit world version of leyndell) which could be were this image is from.

[@soarel325]

I’m still convinced the tree in the art is the Haligtree and not the Erdtree. Maybe it’s the Helphen, idk - the Helphen/spirit world stuff screams cut content to me. I’m not sure if it will ever be expanded on, it feels like a relic of an earlier phase of development and writing that was all but scrapped. I think a lot of the speculation about Marika’s motivation and plan is built on false pretenses. It is definitely possible (I’d say likely) that she wants Radagon killed (hence Hewg’s task), but the plan clearly isn’t to kill the Elden Beast…because this isn’t actually accomplished. In all but two endings you put the Ring back together immediately after defeating it, so congrats you brought it back to life. Marika also seems to want a Tarnished as Elden Lord (or at least vying for that position), and that’s a role that only exists through the Elden Ring and the Order, so she can’t be opposed to the Order as a whole. In general a lot of this speculation rests on people conceptualizing the Greater Will as some kind of malicious “alien invader” which is fundamentally wrongheaded to begin with.

[@nathanjora7627]

Could easily argue that the elden beast is dead, since a remembrance of it was hewn, and as long as the ring reformed doesn't shackle marika to the GW anymore, she might not care at all. Most likely I'd say it is that she wants to kill the EB, radagon, and/or herself, from most to least likely. Not sure how you got from "it's a role that depends on the ER" to "therefore she likes at least some part of the order", that really doesn't make sense to me. What she wants is one of the tarnished to do that, but as far as we know that's most likely to be, or at least could easily be, because those were loyal warriors of godfrey, or godfrey himself, aka people loyal to her more than to the GO, especially after she was able to send them away and thus cut them off from the influence of the GO, especially cut them off from the debilitating immortality that she had imposed on the lands between. It's entirely plausible that she does want to get rid of the order as a whole given this.

[@halohalo505]

Root choking the tree is godwyn and Miquella wants to undo the mess he started. He stole DD and looking like younger Marika and power of sleep made it easier to get past Malekith, forged an alliance with the Carians since they have serious issues with their parent(s) and the only screwup being mistaking Godwyn for Radagon/Marika.

[@aldosalas2722]

if you look at the hammer, the hammer is not broken. so its Marika (or the first born) shattering the ring. then the hammer is broken after the ring is shatter

[@neonwitch]

Can you guys provide link to radagon talk you mentioned at the start of podcast? :D thank you for your research! It’s just delight to listen to you :D

[@nataliet4293]

I wonder if anyone has talked about the game in the context of it being a pastiche of first harvest lore and rituals set in the backdrop of the little ice age.

[@soon5637]

Water always has been associated with death because its stagnant

[@johncra8982]

Crunchy, this doesn't have anything to do with the stuff you discussed in this video but I just thought of something I want to ask - why do we get Rennala's remembrance if she then sits around just chilling in the main library with the egg, waiting to help us respec? how can we get the remembrance from fighting and defeating an "illusion" if remembrances are woven into the erdtree after some great figure dies? is is that the rennala in the fight is real, and the rennala that offers respecs is an illusion? ranni doesn't seem to be angry with us after the fight either way, unless we assume the audio we hear in the phase transition is some mp4 tape she recorded a long time ago, and whatever commitment she felt for her mom that compelled her to record that mp4 of herself has since waned enough to where the tarnished can show up and make her fall so in love with himself that she doesn't really mind the fact that we offed her mom. The only interactions rennala has with anyone after her boss fight have to do with Sellen, and when it comes to Sellen's questline, Rennala just weirdly disappears from the room during the fight at the end of the quest until we're done with it. Whichever route we take with that quest, it always ends with Rennala back in her spot, and Sellen either dead or turned into a graven mass, which may be Rennala's doing, or a trap spell of some sort meant to mess up anyone that tries to kill Rennala, or maybe just a result of Sellen's own research with the bodies of Lusat and Azure (this is the likeliest cause imo). But whatever the case, Rennala always shows back up and starts chilling there again. How is she there when we get her Remembrance? Is there any other Remembrance figure that persists in the world after we've collected their remembrance? How can the tarnished even get these remembrances? aaaa 😫😫

[@aldosalas2722]

:Yes, I believe is marika shattering the ring. later on the game its radegon fixing it. but on that cut scene, She is shattering the ring or the first born did it and that is why he got killed.

[@bow8651]

love your and kosmos' approach to lore discussions! could the difference between st trina purple and gravity purple be ultraviolet light vs normal purple? i think violet + purple are different colors on the light spectrum even tho they look similar to human eyes maybe miquella and ranni were connected through smth about the eclipse? the dark sun of the eclipse and rannis dark moon could be expressing similar things and i could be going off the deep end but i always thought the eclipse didn't happen bc radahn stopped the stars which also affected ranni

[@freemygrandma956]

Looks like Godwin is making his own erd tree like his younger brother but his is more successful I think a fight between the two orders will be what the dlc is about

[@tossapat027]

I comeback here and say the Helphen really is Scadutree ! Crunchy & Kosmos is RIGHT !!

[@flyingfrogillustration]

Are the three wolves (ashes) Melinia, Miquella and Melinas shadows? That have been dispatched? ( sorry for the misspelling.)

[@CrunchyVideos]

That’s a super interesting idea, I hadn’t considered it. What do you make of the statue in Maliketh’s arena, with the wolves and the girl?

[@NoConsequenc3]

the statue should be miquella surrounded by wolves

[@flyingfrogillustration]

My conspiracy theory for that is: it's Marika surrounded by her empyrean offspring. The symbolism can be any number of things: like Perhaps her eventual demise as any empyrean is a sign of her ages end. I feel like I'm making some stretches but that's what makes lore crafting awesome.

[@basedgodly1623]

Also radagon look the same as godwyn could be explained with Carl jung and his theory of the self. Everyone has an Animus or manifestation of traits of the opposite gender. And when they appear they take the form of a man close to you which would make sense if she was close to godwyn

[@QuantumTelephone]

That's definitely not miquella. That is a deadass adult on that torrent. Unless its a baby torrent, no child's legs would dangle all the way down like that. Not even the PC characters legs reach the grass on Torrent. I think it's marika because hair can change but miquellas age cannot.

[@civilprotectionofficer858]

Hello crunchy, just watched half of the video about alchemy and wanted to know how you got such knowledge in this area? I myself recently became interested in alchemy, but I can not find a good book or maybe a KZbin channel. All I could find was a series of lectures by Adam McLean and a podcast about the history of alchemy.

[@aiellamori]

My biggest reason for not thinking that's miquella is the fact it just doesn't look like a child to me. Even if you subscribe to the idea that miquella would obviously be larger than a normal child, it would still have to look like a large child and not an adolescent. I just can't see it being miquella

[@StriderCompanions]

My theory is, the DLC is post endgame, I think it's taking so long because they are remaking the entire map after the player takes the Elden Throne. I think we are presiding over the new order and the death of the Erdtree and miquella awakens to challenge our right to the throne.

[@basedgodly1623]

Side note does anyone know why even though miquella and malenia are empearyan they don't have shadows we know of ?

[@castoramabuche]

What if Miquella tries to take his mother's throne like her children were supposed to. Hence why the "haligtree" is strangling the "erdtree". Which could lead to Miquella actually trying to kill us... And I'm pretty sure we're about to see Marika female form...

[@orom6581]

Is it possible that st trina is the snowy crone?

[@pepegaclap8604]

:O maybe when miquella was trying to create soul for godwyn, messing with elden ring(or something) created radagon :O

[@lunabellsprout]

pog !!

[@DrunkedOwly]

What intrigues me the most is that miquella seems grown up, doesn't look like a 3 year old, so, he managed to grow? by being in the cocoon? or how?

[@SirSaladAss]

Demigods tend to be taller than normal humans. Keeping proportions in mind, that might look like an 11/12-year-old Demigod.

[@varden506]

@@SirSaladAss yup and depending on the content of the expansion, having a literal child model used may lead to some issues rating wise? Kinda like why the removed Ocelots child in ds3.

[@Throne6810]

It’s just amazing to think George R.R. Martin literally wrote the dlc😂

[@hhowdy]

Nice discussion video Crunchy you gotta do one of these with me cuz we can talk about Among Us for 5 hours strait

[@lechaatr193]

Is stupid to think than this woman/man on the horse can’t be miquella ? Miquella even in child form look like a bloodborne snail how is he supposed to look like a real woman ? Is that a retcon ?

[@elleirvin2717]

Stop crocodile Ed posting on /a/ thank you