Elden Ring Lore | Lionel Deep Dive

[@Hawkshaw]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays! Hope you enjoy our take on the story of Lionel. What are your thoughts on Lionel’s relationship with Fia - is it chivalrous… or odd?

[@Nuchraptor]

The game is all over the place with what can die and yet live but die and transfer into another, its like a purgatory but you can die and then be revived.

[@ianwilliams2632]

Merry Christmas Hawkshaw!

[@nbmoleminer5051]

Not death restored actually life in death in death aka undeath.

[@puzzleheaded6195]

Simp

[@Graff-z4x]

Fia's whole principle in life is to legitimize a dying lord with an offspring, rather ceremoniously... In her limited position as an outcast for what was once a cultural norm, Lionel was certainly a "father figure" of sorts. She was basically able to safely hide directly in Leyendell as far as I understand. His chivalrous act could certainly have warranted... ahem.. many a Baldachin Blessing as she prefers to call it... ahem. Odd for us perhaps. But I believe she, living in death, came from a much earlier time, one of transition, when the Gloam-Eyed Queen fell from prominence as holder of the death rune. A time when many ceremonies revolving around death were both normal and sacred. Lionel is the case example of tragic chivalry. But in many ways Fia's very position in society is both a tragedy determined by chivalry in the most extreme way, and furthermore expressed in the most chivalrous of ways. Laying with the dead to ease their passing. Such is the determined meaning of her life.

[@stingray2223]

"he preferred duels over other, less chivalrous forms of violence" shows mages casting their stupid glintstone pebbles from a balcony, absolutely correct

[@ThommyofThenn]

For being the ghostly reincarnation of our beloved onion brother, Lionel is such a mysterious character. Praise the black onion champion!

[@The-one-who-cares]

Praise the Black Onion champion!!!

[@genofooter9862]

Or is the the Black Garlic champion?!

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@genofooter9862 that would certainly be tastier...good with prawn I hear

[@ScyleOrnitier]

You know it's really interesting the cape on his back having three rapiers when Rogier also wields a rapier. But who could the third be

[@scottsyrup2750]

the third is could just be the player/character. The only other type of character besides the Mohg's apostles that use a Rapier (that i can think of) are the Pages, could be the one that we have to hunt during the volcano manor assassinations. However given that Lionel and Rogier both use rapiers and sorcery, the page theory and mohg apostles don't really match the trend.

[@wolfesbane4263]

​@@scottsyrup2750 i personally think the third can be found on that one ER poster showing Lionel's armour set that looked like he was summoned. So i think thats where the three musketeers come from

[@scottsyrup2750]

@@wolfesbane4263 can you find a link for me pls? google gives me a thousand random images i dont know what im looking for

[@gareththeblue9014]

That godskin Nobel A-hole lol.jk

[@acewmd.]

So then I wore a total chads armor, knew he was a true champion when the hat came out.

[@WolfHreda]

*_Note to Self_* : Start Lionel cosplay playthrough and finally use all those death sorceries you literally haven't touched in a thousand hours.

[@rainbowkrampus]

I'm currently doing a "oops, all Death Bird equipment" run. It's pretty good. Getting that axe so early is clutch. Nice having FP regen outside of the physik. Still can't settle on fashion though. I wanted to go for a death rite bird priest sorta deal. But there's not really any gear that fits imo and nothing that is explicitly from that group. The ravenmount shirt and hood are made by assassins who aren't actually affiliated with the bird cult at all, near as I can tell. Their gear is just an homage. A lot of the other death stuff is associated with other gods/cults/rituals. Plus it's still primarily a melee build and all cloth melee is pretty mid unless you're using fast weapons. Fingers crossed we get more death bird cult stuff in a DLC.

[@WolfHreda]

@@rainbowkrampus the Marionette Soldier Birdhelm might be a good fit. Found in either Sellia or Raya Lucaria.

[@GrimDim]

Death spells kinda funny

[@ashholenyc1312]

I killed Melania with death spells

[@kylesteinhauser2535]

@@WolfHreda someone is a Nizar GG fan I see

[@CaelidDay]

I enjoyed this bit about Lionel, a charter that I didn't know too much about until after watching this video.

[@arthurhsu9111]

My own personal wild guess: The three rapier pointing the eclipse represents Lionel, Rogier and Prisoner. All three of them are using sorcery and are obsessed with death (which might be the reason prisoner is imprisoned?).

[@Antichupius]

“Prefers duels to other less chivalrous forms of violence” - proceeds to spam auto target skulls with infinite mana

[@rainbowkrampus]

Lionel mirroring Catarina knight themes while barely being in the game. I dunno, it hits different. Still feels like we're missing our jolly beer man even if making him a three musketeers reference is a notable improvement.

[@demilung]

Pretty sure the Undead "choosing" to not return to Erdtree is either a misunderstanding by that ghost or a some specific case, because those who champion Those Who Live in Death say how they are persecuted due to "no fault of their own".

[@Fullmetalnyuu0]

Yeah. I was under the impression that TWLID are that way because of the removal of the death rune from the elden ring, and the influence of godwyn's body

[@nouhorni3229]

Both statements can be true. Becoming Those Who Live In Death was not their choice, but I assume they could return physically to the Erdtree and dissolve their spirit back into it, however they choose to live in death because they follow the lord that made them.

[@97McLuvin]

Age of Mythology music in the back - an absolute gentleman and scholar.

[@erikreddington461]

Of this quest specifically, I was hoping it would change the world upon new game plus. It's the one place From Soft hasn't gone...what's the world like if you chose "darkness ending"

[@erikreddington461]

Specifically the Dark Souls world. I was hoping for that drastic world change upon completion. Maybe next game IF they ever go back to this genre as this is a magnum opus. Possibly unbeatable

[@FKyoutubeSERIOUSLY]

It would make no sense if NG+ was converted to whatever world you choose to inherit as lord in the previous playthrough. Fromsoft would need to create entirely new set pieces, characters, bosses, story, and lore.

[@TheAlphaLegionnaire]

Full list of music used in the video… You’re everything I’ve ever wanted in a content creator…

[@TheBlaringBlue]

Finally got around to watching this from my Watch Later backlog. Glad I did, it's fantastic! I have notes: I wrote up a reddit piece where I explored Fia's movements and goals in the story, attempting to understand how her questline plays out since it's pretty murky. I pretty much had it, but I could never come up with a way in which she retrieves the dagger... How I never thought about Lionel (or even Rogier, frankly) being the ones to get it for her is beyond me. They're literally her 'champions,' goodness me it was so obvious. Great work on this. I also had no idea that Lionel being 'her' father or 'the' father was a change that was made. This has me twisting my perspective on Lionel, not as a dude who slept with his own daughter, but as a dude who wanted to be the father of Those Who Live in Death, or the very least, the Mending Rune that Fia gives birth to. Fia giving birth at the end of the questline literally would make Lionel 'the father' as opposed to her father. I much prefer this. Your mention of Lionel's participation in the Radahn fight was also an 'aha' moment for me. I kind of thought he was just there for kicks and gigs, but he has a motive. FromSoft really do think of everything. Lastly, I only wish the video spoke about his death. Does he sleep with Fia one last time as he's falling victim to deathblight? Maybe because he touched the dagger, too? Does Fia... betray him, absorbing all his vigor when she realized we are the champion she's needed, not Lionel?

[@IronForce-ff2qx]

I know it’s never comfirmed but one can asume that The Roundtable Hold might have some sort of ward over it that prevents people from killing each other(since Ensha had to transport us to an alt version of the Hold, to kill us) that why Fia is trapped since she’s unable to kill D. But then she somehow found a way to dispel the ward in that storage room and used us to bait D (since if she went to D, he might have not fall for it).

[@deztacular]

The dagger we give D from Fia is cursed and inflicts him with death blight after we leave killing him. It circumvents the restriction because she didn't give us the dagger to kill us, and we didn't give it to D thinking it would kill him, so there was nothing to stop the curse from killing him when it activated.

[@BigBossHimself]

It is confirmed, the dung eater explicitly says this to us, however it's obvious that the range is limitted, as one gets invaded by alberich if they stray too far from the table's grace

[@LorenzoLame80085]

If you never talk to any of them Fia still kills D. How did she do it?

[@ianwilliams2632]

@@LorenzoLame80085 Exactly, he's found deathblighted even if you never go to the Roundtable before visiting Farum Azula.

[@crowstakingoff]

@@BigBossHimself Damn that's actually a really clever application of that phrase

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

The Age of Mythology music is a trip I didn't expect to take lol

[@nightscout9979]

This is an interesting assessment of what Lionel may have believed! For overall lore though, I feel many elements are missed here, and the truth might be much darker. For starters, we find what appears to be Lionel's corpse on a bed, but there's no body for the Deathbed Dress. This placement, and the notion that the other party left without their clothing, raises the disturbing implication that Lionel slept with his own daughter. Fia may have been adopted and, judging from the intro art, an adult upon becoming a Tarnished, but Lionel adopted her as his daughter nonetheless. This heinous deed implies a fall from honor for the supposedly virtuous man, and it's particularly abusive if the idea was all his own. The position of Lionel's corpse on the bed also indicates that he was last alive while sitting up, so his corpse wasn't being held in some pagan attempt to revive him. Additionally, Lionel's corpse bears flaming burns on his legs, as if some power was destroying him. There's nothing to imply that Lionel was ever touched by the Frenzied Flame, so perhaps a literal diseased burning ended his life, as if to mirror Rogier's slow end from the Death Blight. Something similar appears to be the case with the corpse found in the Fortified Manor's equivalent to Fia's chamber, perhaps related to another champion in the boss fight, if Fia was ever among the Manor's era of Tarnished. Some fragment of Lionel might fight for Fia's cause at the Deeproot Depths, but the very nature of the boss fight calls into question whether he's agreeing to this. We can infer from Rogier's actions and dialogue that he has been meeting with Fia before the player ever arrives in the Lands Between. Therefore, Fia has likely been taking Rogier's life force for some time. When Rogier begins dying at the Roundtable Hold, he'll make a peculiar comment that implies he has increasingly been losing his sense of self and freedom of choice: "Hmm. Maybe I should tell you. Lately, I feel I'm on the precipice... Of falling into a deep...fathomless slumber. And I have an inkling it could spell trouble for you, somehow. So I just wanted to get the apology out of the way, beforehand. Since you're so scary and all." Here Rogier feels that something of him, something separate from his own choices, decisions, and personal views, could become a danger for the player, and he's sorry that this might be the case. With the Fia's Champions boss fight, the worry has a clear answer -- Fia is manipulating people's souls to do her bidding. The whole, living person wouldn't do these things, but as a sliver and controlled by Fia, they'll become threats to people they normally see as friends. The coloration of these "champions" is also of particular importance here, as the only other time a blue spirit of that shade appears is when someone has been enslaved by Starlight Shards potions, when the person's free will is destroyed and their body becomes a "puppet." Thus, Fia's "Champions" may actually be enslaved portions of people she has touched. If the person ultimately dies later, even more of their soul might be funneled into slavery, possibly explaining Lionel's status as the strongest "champion" aside from him being a knight. While his sign might still appear at the Radahn Festival, perhaps that too is a sort of ghost. The concept of Spirit Ashes hardly dispels these worries, as the ashes themselves are just said to be carrying out old actions from life rather than entirely aware. Finlay carried Malenia to safety across the Lands Between, but Finlay's ashes can fight Malenia to the death. Tiche died to block a blow meant for her mother, showing how dearly she cared for Alecto. However, Tiche's ashes obey orders without hesitation despite the player killing Tiche's beloved mother to receive Tiche's remains. Tricia was a doctor to the downtrodden, the misbegotten, the omens, etc., even fighting alongside a Misbegotten Warrior when encountered in a catacomb. However, the moment Tricia is killed by the player, the perfumer's ashes can be made to kill the very people who were her patients, the people she tried to cure and risked her life to defend. Latenna alone seems to keep any shred of her will as a summon, but she'll still attack her fellow Albinaurics. Only the Stormhawk King can refuse this summon, keeping his full mind and will. Back to Lionel's actions, one of his spells is concerning: Rancorcall, an art that commands the ancient souls of those burned in Ghostflame then raked out by the Deathbirds. Nothing about the Deathbirds' conduct implies that they denied anyone evil a "proper" rest or death. Instead, the Sacrificial Axe and Branchsword talismans, carried by the Deathbirds themselves, note them to be malevolent and fixated on ways in which people suffer and die. There is thus no intention for Ghostflame to ever bring rest to the deceased, and the tool simply torments souls until they become mindless pawns that inflict torment in turn. With this proof of what befell people predating the Erdtree, the figurative predecessors to Those Who Live in Death, Lionel instead embraces exploiting the very souls Fia supposedly wants to save. The Ghostflame, the Death Blight, etc. making the dead mindless and violent is implied even for those with bodies. The player can encounter Darian in the overworld as he mourns the death of a random civilian at the hands of the undead. The culprit is the Tibia Mariner of the nearby Summonwater Village, a place destroyed by Those Who Live in Death, and this ghoulish figure hardly even shows kindness to his skeleton pawns, instead crushing them recklessly with his boat. The tragedy of Summonwater Village is evidently repeated near the Artist's Shack in Liurnia and the Wyndham Ruins at Altus Plateau, and the Deathroot growing there further emphasizes the connection to Those Who Live in Death. Speaking of D's presence at Summonwater, the Hunter of the Dead is hardly forcing Fia to seek shelter in the Roundtable Hold. Darian will leave to search for Deathroot to help Gurranq, implied to be a regular occurrence. Furthermore, Fia's actions betray no fear of D either. If players ignore Fia and go to the Deeproot Depths, Fia will nonetheless appear once her "champions" are defeated. This cuts the Roundtable Hold part of her quest entirely, letting players simply work for Ranni then hand Fia one cursemark even before killing Maliketh. Speaking of cursemarks, if players choose to kill D near Summonwater, he won't drop any such cursemark, so it's likely that he never had one after all. What this indicates, along with Fia having the Weathered Dagger, is that Fia already had Godwyn's cursemark and instead sought to kill D for hunting the undead. The Weathered Dagger was likely damaged and marred with Death Blight from the time when Devin, Beholder of Death carved it from Godwyn's corpse, and the rune probably adhered to the blight in the blade. Rather than staying true to a noble goal, Lionel and Fia seem to be straying from the honorable intentions they claim to fight for. The father and daughter also appear to turn blind eyes to the things implying that Those Who Live in Death are not merely people with a stigma. Fia's endeavors are even at odds with restoring the world, as "Destined Death" rejoining the Elden Ring would seemingly just fully kill the undead. The cursemarks of death are also the broken halves of a single cursemark designed to kill a person's body and soul. Instead, as observed in the Duskborn ending, Fia's rune preserves the plague, the Death Blight mist and the flies that dart around Godwyn's corpse. Even if she may have started with good intentions, Fia's actions could ultimately thwart a return of true death to the Golden Order and instead make the misery of Those Who Live in Death eternal. Therefore, if Lionel indeed willingly supported Fia's goals without wavering, then he too turned a blind eye to a fundamental flaw in the plan. Wow, that posted ended up way longer than I intended it to be. Thanks again for the insightful videos!

[@seamenfactory6360]

Could you also write the Bible in Ancient Lebanese?

[@minerman60101]

I found Fortissax to be too easy as well; I did Fia's questline much later than fighting her champions and the dragon simply didn't have the health or damage to pose much of a threat. Since the reward is a mending rune, I would have the fight be scaled for endgame players. (It was not obvious that having her hug you multiple times would give dialogue, so that's why I didn't progress the quest during my playthrough)

[@rainbowkrampus]

You can do Fia's whole questline after you beat Radahn. Fortisax is much more in line with being around that rune level. If you scaled it for end game, wandering down there after Radahn for players who don't miss things would be a frustrating experience. Hell, twin gargoyles is frustrating enough on its own at lower levels.

[@minerman60101]

@@rainbowkrampus Twin Gargoyles is frustrating because it's a poorly designed boss lol, but yeah that's a fair point about the dragon. I think my opposing preference is "medium level players find it too hard and come back later, high level players find the fight just right" as opposed to the status quo of "medium level players find the fight just right, high level players steamroll Fortissax." It's just a microcosm of the challenges with difficulty scaling in an open world which Elden Ring suffers from.

[@Syreal92]

If you like the boss fight with Fortissax, it's worth going to max ng+. This is how you can enjoy the boss fight :)

[@minerman60101]

@@Syreal92 oh I'm taking the opposite approach; I'm in the middle of an RL1 playthrough

[@NoOne6661]

Love the age of mythology music in the background

[@ducktape-3470]

I spent my entire last week thinking about the numerous things we haven't looked at. And here is my favourite guy uploading the Godly video we all need but don't deserve. Long may Hawkshaw shine !

[@A_Potato_of_Infinite_Wisdom]

Damn, I just noticed Gothic 2 music playing at 8:38. Hawkshaw is truly a man of culture, not just for Fromsoftware games, but gaming in general.

[@ianwilliams2632]

Very good video. The contemplative, thoughtful style continues to suffuse your content despite passing from the quietude of Souls to the more blatant narrative of Elden Ring. I am glad. Fia's line about being driven from her home because of awakening to Grace was one of the few times I felt engaged by a character in Elden Ring. Lionel is treated unfairly by people who don't understand the context of melancholy and sympathy around Fia's story. Too many people went the 'reddit route' on his character, preferring to think of Lionel more as a sexual sugar daddy than a properly chivalrous knight errant or symbolic father-protector. But I never doubted that those who go abed with Fia are chaste. It is a far deeper, more intimate, sad, yet hopeful relationship than lascivious or lustful. It's interesting that the rain overtakes the atmosphere if you take Fia's ending. It always rains, no matter what, when we defeat Morgott and return from trying to enter the Erdtree. I often have wondered what the significance of this is. As if the Erdtree is weeping.

[@Gensolink]

Fia's love is definitely platonic it might even be something unique to her and her role of death bed companion, most tarnished would be weak be it of mind or body, having someone to talk to and embrace could be one of the only moment they felt safe and truly loved even if it meant getting drained. And she accept those without question.

[@nightscout9979]

The questionable motives for Lionel stem from where he's found and what's nearby. The implication seems to be that Fia was, well, let's just say light rolling. That's quite a different context from the Roundtable Hold events. Lionel's sitting up too, so he was alive for a while. Reposting this since KZbin deleted the prior one.

[@NCRRanger7753]

I hope they add a way to enter into a covenant for Fia in the future like the Wolf covenant or Spears of the Church in DS3.

[@WolfHreda]

I miss the covenants.

[@Rexfuselier]

@@WolfHreda same.

[@ThommyofThenn]

Yeah I wish the game had encouraged replay by making certain quests only available if you join in covenant with npcs.

[@addictiontransfer3731]

Hawkshaw my favorite lore man gives me a video for Christmas!!! Thank you!! tis a wonderful Christmas indeed!!

[@tomjones6347]

Thankyou for the upload! We appreciate every single one!

[@Above_Average_Joe315]

I literally just got off of elden ring where I completed Fia's quest. Perfect timing to understand what I just did.

[@eel-to-eel]

Thank you for this wonderful, wonderful video Hawkshaw!!! One interesting detail regarding Lionel's fate, though- We find his armor in Lower Leyndell next to the Deathbed Dress. But the Prince of Death Staff he uses as her Champion, ostensibly HIS staff, is found on a corpse in Nameless Eternal City. I'm not totally sure what this may signify given where we recover his armor, but it seems like the kind of detail you'd appreciate :) Food for thought: Nameless Eternal City is beneath the Lower Capital... at the bottom of an enormous chasm, which opened long ago during the Shattering War. Merry Christmas!

[@coreyrachar9694]

wow I'm so happy hawkshaw is releasing content semi-regularly again! Liked and commented before even watching, keep going you're one of the best out there.

[@paxtonb3926]

So glad to see your content again!

[@Nightmareblader]

Love the dark souls 2 music. It makes it feel like these characters could’ve belonged to that game 😇

[@ivory867]

@juscbhbhuvsdsdvbhjwsdv3843lol damn

[@thecubansamich4064]

I fucking love your channel hacksaw. Another sweet video

[@RidireOiche]

Nothing in the game points to this but I like to think in the 5000 years since the shattering a warrior pot found Lionel's body and instead of just milling about in a corner somewhere the pot took his honourable nature and became Iron Fist Alexander.

[@granitebones6956]

Thank you for saying this so I could agree with it

[@acewmd.]

???, 5000 years, but everything is still standing.

[@RidireOiche]

@@acewmd. Oh, I got the 5000 years point of reference from George RR Martin. In an interview with a late night talk show host describing the premise of the game, Martin said the Shattering was 5000 years before the events if the game. Another interview with one of the game devs during one of the summer games festivals, egx, pax, or e3 last year, I honestly cannot remember which one, the game dev sort of supported Martin's claim by alluding the Lands Between stagnated in a sort of limbo after the shattering, saying time kind of stopped and didn't at the same time. I took both interviews as canonical, but completely understand anyone dismissing it as unreliable hearsay.

[@acewmd.]

@@RidireOiche I’m just amazed it took so long for everything to happen, in a way it makes sense since everyone is immortal in Elden ring but still, that’s such a long time for everything. Malenia slept for 5 millennia.

[@RidireOiche]

@@acewmd. That illteration was oddly satisfying to read. Thanks for that. You know yourself Marika had to stay in her prison until the erdtree's grip on the land weakened enough for her godslayer plot to be realized. This is headcanon territory now-well it all has been but deeper now-had Marika moved any sooner that finger puppet, radagon, would have intervened and ruined everything. Concealing the true purpose of the roundtable hold, trusting Hewg to fulfill his pledge, imbueing restoration powers into the stakes of Marika, plucking a soul from the erdtree that just happened to belong to a blackknife assassin, overwriting the soul with a fragment of herself to create Melina then gifting just enough information to achieve her purpose without giving the game away, and calling back the Tarnished. Everything had to be done at a snails pace in a way that did not arouse suspicion and that would take millennia.

[@harper2606]

Great as always Hawkshaw - one of my favorite questlines.

[@AndrewJimmyG]

Merry Christmas! And I really liked the zelda music in the backround

[@Northwite]

That background music is so great.

[@MossOwnsYouYT]

I love hearing the variety of background musics you use in these. Anything by Darren Korb (Hades/Bastion) is always a big win for me.

[@BigPanda096]

That Age of Mythology background music brings back so much nostalgia for me. Back when I used to play custom games on ESO servers before they went down.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

So soon after the colour theory video? Well well, this is a nice suprise. A pity its not like 2 hours long though haha

[@crowstakingoff]

I am thankful for shorter videos.

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

@@crowstakingoff Sure, but I'm a sucker for long videos. Its cosy.

[@rhynlock11]

What? A Hawkshaw video under 45 min? what kind of sorcery is this!?

[@coroarc8423]

great video as usual and merry chrisler!

[@BeggarsNight]

Baldachin’s Blessing contradicts this theory that she’s being “held captive” at the roundtable hold. “Favor bestowed by a deathbed companion. Protection of a hidden temple in the guise of a bedchamber.” The simplest and most sensible explanation is that no one knows she’s there. The interactions make no sense otherwise. The bedchamber is hidden. “Circumstances compel my presence” doesn’t mean she’s there against her will. It just means that she has to be there to achieve her goals.

[@Jari_Kir]

I am not quite sure how it contradicts the theory. Is it about the "hidden temple"? In that case, the description also talks about "a deathbed companion", not Fia. It's a generalization. So it isn't necessarily talking about the Roundtable Hold either, but maybe rather how the bedchamper can be a private temple in right company and circumstance. If it's not about this part of the description, please elaborate. Also, it's not that Fia is "held captive" as in she is chained in a cell or anything. I understood it as D is watching and waiting for Fia to leave the Roundtable Hold, where you cannot attack anyone, so that he can kill her as soon as that forced peace doesn't apply to her anymore. Since she cannot leave without risiking her life, she is "held captive". About the interactions, neither D nor Fia are playing with open hands. I imagine they wouldn't want to let you know about their acquaintance. But as I said, I am not sure if I understood your point correctly. So I wrote this about what I imagine might be your point. Cheers.

[@BeggarsNight]

@@Jari_Kir I’m not sure why you’d expect item descriptions to directly specify people or places when all this time these games have usually operated off of (often very obvious) clues to get lore across. There’s no reason to assume they mean any other bedchamber or any other deathbead companion other than the only one that we know exists and who resides in a bedchamber. If we operated off of that logic, Miquella wouldn’t be the boy obviously being referenced in the Golden Epitaph description, for example: “Infused with the humble prayer of a young boy; "O brother, lord brother, please die a true death." As for the idea that D is in the hold because he’s waiting for Fia to leave…Fia is the only one of the two who directly states that she has an important reason to be there. She’s the one who provides the knife, and who pretty clearly states that killing D was her purpose for being there once he’s dead: “Finally, it is returned to its rightful place.” I’m not sure how any of that can be viewed as Fia being stuck there because D might…see her leave? And if the “pact of non-aggression” that the hold operates off of is so binding as to even prevent Fia from killing D whether directly or indirectly (which we see it pretty clearly doesn’t), there wouldn’t be any reason for her not to be able to move freely within it. But not one person in it ever references her. If D really were waiting for her to leave so he could inexplicably just follow her wherever she went off to, you’d expect him to At least be in the same room as her. At least have her where he could see her. But there’s no reason to think he even knows she’s there at all. She’s instead hidden herself within it waiting for a way to strike. And once she compromises her presence, she leaves AND gives you a message to deliver that she obviously couldn’t since she’s in complete opposition to the hold and the forces behind it. And that’s not to mention that the pact is just a pact. Fia clearly never agreed to it, which is why she kills D and also why she must hide her presence. She’s not supposed to be there.

[@Myhaay]

@@BeggarsNight no, the dung-eater even specifies the hold is the reason he can't defile there and is stuck in a corner, this is further reinforced by us not being able to attack anyone in the hold, souls game never restricts your freedom to be an asshole without proper reason. Also the invavsion by ensha is in a different "realm" or whatever of the hold since no one else is there, possibly a trap set up by him upon your return. The Alberich invasion also suggests this, since you stray further from the grace table, the invasion happens.

[@BeggarsNight]

@@Myhaay the dung eater says that he’s there to experience peace, and that the peace itself is why he refuses to kill. It would defeat the entire purpose of his being there. All of which pretty clearly suggests he himself chooses to abide by the pact. Again, a pact is a pact, nothing more or less.

[@Myhaay]

@@BeggarsNight could be wrong about that, haven't played in a while, what about the rest though?

[@highroller6244]

Great Video man!

[@Just72Me]

Gothic soundtrack in elden ring video? A suprise to be sure, but a welcome one

[@Nuchraptor]

Great vid. Ive trying to figure out how the stars show in the day and night cycles, but the stars are being held back or is just the 2 fingers that crash into Ranni's end area. And who killed Ranni when she dies at the same time as Godwyn but he loses his soul, and Ranni loses her body...

[@Fignya_melkaya]

Ranni killed her own body. She had two reasons to do this. First of all - she hated two fingers and its Boss - Greater Will. So she deny to become new marionette Godes like Marika. Second - i think when you use rune of death you must kill both soul AND body. Ranni for shure didnt whant to commit sudoku, so she destroyed Godwyn's soul instead of her own, then she slayed her own empyrean body. I dont know for shure why she killed Godwyn tho. I think, he was just the weakest and the easiest one. I mean half of demigods are her brothers and sisters (Radan and Rikard) and she is like Win Gasoline. Malenia would beat the shit out of all black knifes and the village fool who decided to send assasins after her OR her dear little brother Mikella. Brothers Omens are trapped down the sewers. May be Ranni just had no idea that they existed or she didnt want to mess with them for some wierd reason.

[@gunnarschlichting9886]

​@@Fignya_melkayaShe picked Godwyn for one definite reason and one theorized reason. Definite is because he was the literal Golden boy, called the Golden Prince, and overall both a symbol and supporter of the Golden Order. Huge asset for Ranni's enemies, and a great person to eliminate for that reason (he's why the Dragons allied with the Golden Order after all). A theory I really like separate from all that is the idea of Ranni being engaged to Godwyn as a way of further tying Liurnia to the Golden Order, having an Empyrean who will take over that would have an extremely loyal Elden Lord (on Godwyn) to keep her in checkq😊, and a way of uniting the two unrelated demigod lineages (depending on how exactly the Radagon is Marika works, they are either half siblings which honestly is super normal for royalty in this kind of scenario, or completely unrelated by blood). She opposed this idea vehemently, so in addition to killing her own body to gain freedom she also kills the person she was supposed to be wed to as a further method of demonstrating her freedom and/or form of revenge.

[@Konman89]

Merry Christmas!

[@Mistercodmobilefan8378]

Love this video of fia and Lionel! And I subscribed!

[@tkong6465]

Need to do a cosplay build for Lyonel would be super cool and effective as well high poise with epee (a good PvP weapon ) can’t wait to try just did a Iron Tragoth cosplay was very fun for PvP and helping ppl with bosses

[@kritz9997]

My first vid made from you, i love the in text citations on the side, it makes it easier to piece together information especially countless texts heard throughout the game

[@nowaysis77]

The real souls lore champion 👊🏻❤️

[@armanfrancis1786]

First time coming across your channel, and starting it off with Twilight princess music and following it with Age of Mythology music was brilliant.

[@dunmer_appreciator1379]

the age of mythology ost is bringing me back to my childhood lmaooo

[@mrgray5576]

My man had swag. That's for sure.

[@DGiovanni]

I think Fia's Champions are easy because that's supposed to be an alternate route into Leyndell. Their difficulty is meant to be on par with the Draconic Tree Sentinel that guards the other access point.

[@monroerobbins7551]

Why does the thumbnail look like the fella’s just goin’ “I’ll get you, bitch”, lol?

[@MyGamerforlife]

He fits the profile.

[@nigeltownley7472]

The age of mythology music 👌

[@Nimno74]

I never give D's brother the armor. I won't let anyone kill Lady Snuggles.

[@Gundomdum]

I knew there was something up with lionels armor

[@eloryansuavo]

I like how every other youtuber had no content to post week after elden ring release, and here is Hawkshaw team, still delivering quality videos with things they discovered themselves. All that without rushing, without the everpresent clickbait nonsense. With all respect to other KZbinrs, may we agree to call Hawkshaw the truest lore explorers? I think we may.

[@ivory867]

There are a lot of content creators that make videos just as good as his it’s fine to like him but there’s no need to hate especially when you’re just flat out wrong

[@eloryansuavo]

@@ivory867 no hate, I know few others like AgtJake and some more popular ones that do quality content. I shouldn't write "every other", more like "most others". Sorry.

[@Andy-rf5jx]

Hi vatti! When you take some of this lore for prepare to cry remember to name hawkshaw

[@huesudowoodo]

when i fought him in the deep roots i was like “woah whos this guy!?” his attacks are really cool lol

[@paulkim3521]

Hey, merry Christmas. The inset type needs to linger long enough for the editor to read it 2-3 times over at regular speed. The viewer, first time watcher will have enough time to absorb the unspoken dialogue

[@swordquest2602]

the age of mythology soundtrack is so good, nice choice

[@joshk494]

I don't think I get the idea about the dagger killing D in roundtable hold. If holding the dagger killed tarnished, why doesn't it affect Lionel, Fia, or us before we pass it to D? Why would D look at it and not be concerned about its appearance if the black gash made it cursed? Isn't it more likely Fia thought if we presented one D with the other's dagger it would concern him and get him to move, perhaps to leave the roundtable, so fia could kill him herself in a side room? He'd been sitting right under the roundtable grace, and I think that was more of her problem retrieving the hallowbrand half than anything else. The dagger being marred by a black gash could just tell us whom it had been used on, obviously Godwyn's body. Once he was out of the way, she was able to use her best and only weapon, Fia's Mist, which would not only attract attention if used where D is squatting right in the middle of everything but likely result in undesirable collateral damage. The room we find them in is both where we can enter and exit the real fortified manor discretely, and also appears to be an armory, perhaps where Hewg stores his work. Either of those could explain why D might head there before leaving.

[@crowstakingoff]

Doesn't it seem kind of pointless to kill a Tarnished, since they'll just come back to life? Or is that incorrect?

[@joshk494]

@CrowsTakingOff I believe only tarnished who actually see the guidance of grace, like us, are revived after a death. Almost no other tarnished we meet see it anymore since arriving back in the lands between, and in fact it seems impossible to confirm any other than us can. That's why, I assume, D, Fia, Rogier, Diallos, Boggart, Dung Eater etc. can all die and stay dead. And you can imagine for tarnished like Lionel that there's an appeal to becoming one of those who live in death after once being someone unable to die and having that power stripped from them, which may help explain Fia's appeal.

[@DM-Oz]

@Bill Clinton Enjoyer The best explanation i found was that only tarnished guided by grace are immortal.

[@JaruJaruJ]

Great stuff. Quite enjoying this content.

[@S_t_r_e_s_s]

Very based, thank you for the Christmas gift.

[@Graff-z4x]

Thank you for this insight! I only knew they knew each other and the dad thing but she prolly laid with him when he died? idk that was as far as I could gather without this input. In my unified world theory he's definitely proto-onion. Tragic chivalry indeed Ho ho ho ho!

[@henrykdodwel6913]

Thanks for video

[@3lithepunk]

it's xmas time gather for the best stories

[@TiberiusRex182]

Oh hell yea, its a scrumdis miracle

[@erikreddington461]

I keep hearing "Vati is doing the visually, emotionally beautiful vids, but Hawkshaw is now lore king"

[@crowstakingoff]

Yes, I wish the lore king comments would stop entirely. It's cringy as fuck.

[@le1660]

@Bill Clinton Enjoyer its not that we watch vaati for elden ring lore, we watch vaatividya for VAATI talking about elden ring. Well that's why I watch him anyway. Most of the questions we want answered won't actually get answered ever. The lore is very subjective.

[@Xenomorphdude472]

So Lionel is like lion-hearted, brave armored musketeer.

[@tristanjackson5343]

spending time with family and friends soon as I can this is going on tv with the xbox gaming chair turned way up gotta have the perfect watching experience, that and trying to explain the games I play to family and friends is like well theres a ring and its shattered oh and colours mean things and did I mention theres cosmic space horror elements but it's a meadveal themed game ya.. best wait to watch this lmao.

[@aicantdance]

best elden ring lore channel! ❤

[@splunkmastah4609]

Oh Shit Surprise Hawkshaw Vid.

[@lw9243]

Uses a great epee and also spams rancorcall endlessly. So honourable. So chivalrous.

[@Sky-vg4zt]

Lore before bed please

[@peytonmiles6982]

That age of empires/age of mythology music goes crazy

[@theticksquad8218]

Fia's champions always have the dual rot axe pumpkin head guy, i thought they were based off of random players hugging fia.

[@hereticseraphim73]

One thing is that FIA doesn’t actually have to die at the end of her quest. You can just not give Devin the armor and the sword and he’ll just be sitting there being goofy.

[@crowstakingoff]

He stays by the aqueduct if you don't give him the armor?

[@hereticseraphim73]

@@crowstakingoff yeah. He just sits there. You need to give him the armor otherwise he doesn’t get his weird mental awakening. You can tell Fia isn’t dead since there isn’t a pool of blood under her.

[@le1660]

Voice ain't as silky as vaati, but definitely bearable for long periods of time. Thank god.

[@phy_dude]

Dude you're great

[@vvirusty]

leonel was obviously an albenuric. thats why he has such a large helm.

[@TheLastVoodooMan]

Thumbs up for Gothic soundtrack in the backround :D

[@Scrotus_the_odd]

Lionel could have been the artorius of ER

[@Carrot-Man1876]

Just subbed

[@melkermagnusson5070]

Great video! 👍

[@XDWASDX]

More bastion music

[@paolosolcruz]

It seems like Lionel may have shared compassion for the dead as well, given that you find his home where the undead can be found in Leyndell..

[@shogomakishima7224]

This tone of blue indicates a doll. A different tone indicates spirit ashes.

[@LorenzoLame80085]

If you don't do Fia's quest, Fia still kills D without you giving him the dagger. Could this be a design oversight? Another thing that just seems like a mistake is the Margit apparition outside of Leyndell. I was gathering some weapons that I missed and in my way he appeared on that old battlefield, even though I just killed Godfrey (the scene literally shows Morgott vanishing out of existence). How is it possible for this event to happen if I killed Morgott?

[@KingMerrDG]

i think it’s more like a set spelling as opposed to morgott actively casting it. we can assume this because it doesn’t respawn, even if morgott alive. like if morgott was actively creating the margits, why wouldn’t he respawn them as to slow us down more? and even if he is actively controlling the apparitions, maybe he wouldn’t respawn them because it’s obvious that the tarnished is stronger than them and it’s a waste, but what would be the point of the second one, if that’s the case ? we already beat him once.

[@LorenzoLame80085]

@@KingMerrDG so the first one he's casting it directly, but the second one is just a booby trap with a pre recorded message? I guess it makes sense

[@crowstakingoff]

@@LorenzoLame80085 Lol you seem unconvinced. Yeah that is so strange, it's like they tried to make sense of it for the Margit fight but didn't apply their logic fully to the leyndell one

[@gunnarschlichting9886]

​@@LorenzoLame80085Seems like it yeah, same with Ranni doing the same to protect Rennala for her phase 2. Ranni has 0 voicelines about you fighting her mother, whether or bit you are already helping her, so it seems automatic. Don't see why this Margitt wouldn't be the same. Also the Mohg illusion you fight in the sewers.

[@Gabronthe]

Lionel would probably have a relevance in an ending that is not Death.

[@aaronhernandez7060]

Is the background music age of mythology?!?!

[@jackburger6126]

i like the fire emblem gba music ; good channel

[@crowstakingoff]

I was kind of hoping this might clear some things up about the theory that Fia is Fortissax. My first thought was "Oh, why didn't I look more into Lionel?" But him being an adoptive father makes it so that nothing is really debunked or verified from this

[@TristanHawthorne]

“Everyone who reaches this boss is shocked by the ease of its challenge” I literally barked out laughing at this preposterous statement. I’ve got 600+ hours in game and no matter what build my character is I take multiple tries to survive the gank squad of Lionel + two player builds. “Especially compared to the challenge of beating Fortissax straight after.” I continue to cackle, as every single playthrough in every build I defeat Fortissax first try. Is this what PvP does to someone? I feel like the only Souls fan who prefers PvE.

[@kadbenson7540]

Can you do a video on all the endings of elden ring and all the npcs which align with and are working toward which endings

[@CoffeeBrainzz]

The Zelda music threw me off so hard!! 😂🤓

[@mjofficiel6750]

This video has more sense today.. All of these dead body and live spirit.. Some shadows

[@caliburn1123]

6:21 i might be wrong but don't we summon spirits that have already went back to the erdtree?

[@biasmushroom6311]

I was wondering WHY I had to kill Ranni in that fight! I kinda wish we could have done a PvP boss fight like in DS3. That was fun!